MLB Playoffs [Archive] - INTERCOT Boards

Melanie

10-04-2010, 10:18 AM

Oh my goodness, where to start? It's crazy for our household this year. Braves in - YAY! So happy for Bobby, but I'm pretty certain they don't have what it takes to get very far. Not a pessimist, just being realistic, especially with the pitching they'll be facing. My adopted hometown Rays are in and I couldn't be happier. Their play in this last month has been just a notch above dismal though. I hope their knowing they were a lock for the playoffs had something to do with that. Now Longo needs to get back healthy and I'll feel a lot better. Can't wait to see what crazy outfits they come up with for travel. They have so much fun with that!

But here's the issue with my family. My DH is a Texan and lifelong Ranger fan, so he's not liking the first round matchup. And my youngest, a Yankee fan through and through. Ugh. Hopefully the Twins can jump on CC, take game 1 and never look back.

I CAN'T WAIT! I :heart: October! :baseball:

Ms. Mode

10-04-2010, 11:25 AM

Go BRAVES!

(But...I don't hold out much hope...they just aren't hitting the ball right now.)

Dopey's Girl

10-04-2010, 04:28 PM

GO Twins, GO!

RedSoxFan

10-04-2010, 04:44 PM

My Red Sox are not in ---- so I guess I'll cheer on the Rays. So long as the Yankees don't win; I'll be happy with whatever team wins the World Series.

Ian

10-04-2010, 05:06 PM

First off, I was happy to see the Rays win the East and not the Yankees. I've been wrong before about them, but I wouldn't be at all shocked the see the Yankees ousted in the first round. Their pitching is a mess and they've been playing dismally the last month or so. You've got to go in on a roll.

That being said, they're the Yankees and the defending World Champs so they basically deserve respect until proven otherwise.

I'm very happy with the way the NL playoff picture played out. The Phils have their rotation set, drew probably the most favorable first round match-up they could have, and are going in smokin' hot.

I'm really excited for Wednesday!

ftwildernesskid

10-04-2010, 05:11 PM

Go Reds!!! It's been a long time coming and I'm so excited we're in the play offs!!!!

Pagan

10-04-2010, 05:11 PM

First off, I was happy to see the Rays win the East and not the Yankees.
So was I...I don't think anyone wants a piece of Texas in the first round. Coming in as the wild card actually works to the Yankees advantage.

Hammer

10-04-2010, 05:33 PM

So was I...I don't think anyone wants a piece of Texas in the first round. Coming in as the wild card actually works to the Yankees advantage.

Well, after Lee, I'm not that impressed with the Rangers' pitching staff, and Lee is banged up this year (though I put nothing past him in the post season).

Remember, the Twins now play in an outdoor stadium. Yes it is cold in NYC, but it's colder in Minneapolis! Also, this year, they have a better DH in Jim Thome.

Never mentioned who I was rooting for (though I think you all know who my #1 team is ;) ). Besides the Phillies, I am most definitely rooting for the Rays. I like the team, but it is more for my parents, especially my Dad. My Dad passed away in July (I did not really publicize it to the boards) due to complications from cancer. My parents adopted the Rays when they retired to Clearwater and Dad enjoyed going to games, with me flying down at least once a year to join him at a game, and we always talked about how each of our teams were doing when we talked on the phone, right up to the point where he could not talk anymore. Dad went to playoff games in 2008. Sadly, my Dad passed away a couple of weeks before Garza threw his no-hitter, but we all watched for him.

Our family will be watching, with Mom wearing Dad's Rays shirt.

kakn7294

10-04-2010, 05:49 PM

My team is the Pirates who definately are NOT in it with the worst record in baseball and a losing record for the past 18 yrs. *sigh* I'll be rooting for the Yankees with my DH.

darthmacho

10-04-2010, 05:50 PM

I hate to admit this, but being a Red Sox fan, I am rooting for the 7 teams that aren't the Yankees. Sadly, in any given years, those still aren't great odds.

I would like to see the Rays win one, but I'm also pulling for the Reds, if only for old friend, Bronson Arroyo.

Hammer

10-04-2010, 05:58 PM

My team is the Pirates who definately are NOT in it with the worst record in baseball and a losing record for the past 18 yrs. *sigh* I'll be rooting for the Yankees with my DH.

Kathy, in the MLB regular season wrap up thread, I actually speak about the Pirates, especially for you! Hang with 'em, Kathy, and I'll hope that that they will someday get better ownership :hug:.

kakn7294

10-04-2010, 06:16 PM

Kathy, in the MLB regular season wrap up thread, I actually speak about the Pirates, especially for you! Hang with 'em, Kathy, and I'll hope that that they will someday get better ownership :hug:.Thanks Christine! They fired John Russell today so maybe we'll get someone in there who can work with the young talent we do have. I truly believe that with proper management these kids can turn it around - not to make the playoffs but to at least have a winning season and not be the laughingstock of baseball. As for ownership, I think we're unfortunately stuck with them for a while.

Hammer

10-07-2010, 07:10 AM

I think everyone must be in shock over the first day of the playoffs! Observations:

1) Guess Roy Halladay didn't have any jitters from being in the playoffs for the first time! My favorite comment from after the game came from Roy Oswalt when he recounted a conversation with Cole Hamels, "Glad I don't have to pitch next"

2) Rays have got to covert better with runners in scoring position. Don't know why they had Baldelli instead of Aybar in as DH.

3) Night game was pretty good, but if I was a Yankee fan, I would be a bit nervous as your ace did well, but he did not shut them down like Lee and Halladay did their opponents, which is what an ace should do. If you have to be bringing in Rivera in the eighth for the first round, he may be worn out by the later rounds.

Melanie

10-07-2010, 07:39 AM

2) Rays have got to covert better with runners in scoring position. Don't know why they had Baldelli instead of Aybar in as DH.

He's not on the roster. :unsure: At least he didn't throw a fit and leave when he was told like Dioner Navarro did.

My fears were confirmed with this first game. Not sure what's up with this team, and even Longo being back didn't spark them. No doubt, leaving men on base like that will not win you games. That first inning bases loaded strike out by Baldelli was a killer.

kakn7294

10-07-2010, 08:25 AM

Night game was pretty good, but if I was a Yankee fan, I would be a bit nervous as your ace did well, but he did not shut them down like Lee and Halladay did their opponents, which is what an ace should do. If you have to be bringing in Rivera in the eighth for the first round, he may be worn out by the later rounds.Yankees haven't been playing well as of late - they actually should have finished first rather than making it into the playoffs as a wild card team. It is nerve-wracking to a Yankee fan (and his family!). Hopefully they figure out what has them in this slump and fix it quick or this may be a short post-season for them.

Melanie

10-07-2010, 08:27 AM

Yankees haven't been playing well as of late - they actually should have finished first rather than making it into the playoffs as a wild card team.

And the same could be said for the Rays if they'd been the wild card.

Oh, and major props to Halladay. Amazing!

Hammer

10-07-2010, 10:21 AM

He's not on the roster. :unsure: At least he didn't throw a fit and leave when he was told like Dioner Navarro did.

My fears were confirmed with this first game. Not sure what's up with this team, and even Longo being back didn't spark them. No doubt, leaving men on base like that will not win you games. That first inning bases loaded strike out by Baldelli was a killer.

My Mom and I were saying it was a really stupid move by Maddon to not have Aybar on the playoff roster and it was proven with Baldelli's strikeout in the first. We aren't talking Mike Sweeney here who has never been on a playoff team. He was on the Red Sox after he left the Rays the first time!

I had to laugh talking to my Mom after the game. She was ranting on how Maddon deserved to be fired for the move. I asked her if she was channeling Dad with her reaction!

Melanie

10-07-2010, 10:24 AM

I had to laugh talking to my Mom after the game. She was ranting on how Maddon deserved to be fired for the move. I asked her if she was channeling Dad with her reaction!

:thumbsup:

PirateLover

10-07-2010, 11:09 AM

I have been to many sporting events in my life and as most of you probably know by now I am a partial season ticket holder for the Phillies. I was lucky enough to be sitting in section 211, row 10, seat 10 for last night's no hitter. By far the single most memorable game I have ever witnessed in person. The last two inning we were handing out high fives for every strike. Our section was great. I'm glad I bought my program before the game, the line afterward was insane!

LET'S GO PHILLIES!!!!!!!!

Ian

10-07-2010, 11:21 AM

Wow. Just ... wow. What an absolutely amazing thing to watch last night. I literally had the chills at the end of the game. The guy throws a perfect game in Florida during the regular season and then a no hitter during his first ever postseason appearance?? Incredible. Just incredible.

I have to say that, without a doubt, this Phillies team has given me more special moments that I'll remember for a lifetime in the last four seasons than I've gotten from our three other sports teams combined.

Which is just so great, because for the first 10 - 15 years of my life I just loved this team. And then they were just so bad for so many years that I got focused on football and somewhat lost my love of baseball (especially after the strike). But this team has just flat out won me back and I've re-discovered just how much this game means to me.

Honestly, the only way this could be better would be if Harry were still around to have called these games. I still miss him. :(

I can hear it now ... "Roy Halladay, YOU ARE THE MAN!!"

Pagan

10-07-2010, 11:30 AM

3) Night game was pretty good, but if I was a Yankee fan, I would be a bit nervous as your ace did well, but he did not shut them down like Lee and Halladay did their opponents, which is what an ace should do. If you have to be bringing in Rivera in the eighth for the first round, he may be worn out by the later rounds.
Why would we be nervous? If you recall, last year CC gave up three early runs against these same Twins in game one.

We all know how last year turned out. ;)

Props to Halladay...amazing performance.

Hammer

10-07-2010, 11:51 AM

Why would we be nervous? If you recall, last year CC gave up three early runs against these same Twins in game one.

We all know how last year turned out. ;)

Props to Halladay...amazing performance.

First, I am NOT a Yankees fan, so I could care less how they do, but you do not have nearly as strong of starting pitching as you did last year. Need to see which Pettite shows up for today's game, the one who pitched poorly in September or pitches strong in past playoff appearances.

Ian

10-07-2010, 12:03 PM

I'm not saying anything about the Yankees. They're the defending World Series champs and a team full of heavily playoff-seasoned and talented players that are more than capable of going all the way.

As far as I'm concerned, they're the favorites until someone beats them.

Hammer

10-07-2010, 02:03 PM

Baldelli put on disabled list and Aybar is on the playoff roster. Thank goodness! Just called my Mom to let her know (my cousin is driving her home from a doctor's appointment). For the record, my Mom was saying this was going to happen last night (you know, when she was channeling my father).

Melanie

10-07-2010, 03:01 PM

Baldelli put on disabled list and Aybar is on the playoff roster.

Yes, great news!

Now, I wonder when BJ Upton is going to figure out he plays center TOO shallow. I'm so sick of seeing his backside running towards the wall for a ball that's dropped in over his head. :bang:

Not a BJ fan, can you tell? :blush:

exvagirl

10-07-2010, 03:45 PM

Goin to the Phillies game tomorrow night!!! Another no hitter??? hrmmm....LOL. :thumbsup:

Melanie

10-07-2010, 04:11 PM

OMG! Young totally went around for what should have been strike 3, first base ump says nope and next pitch - see ya! And then Madden gets tossed. My head is going to explode. Ugh.

Yeah, not looking so good for the Rays. Plus, David Price is on the front of Sports Illustrated this week. That never bodes well. ;)

Pagan

10-07-2010, 04:45 PM

First, I am NOT a Yankees fan, so I could care less how they do, but you do not have nearly as strong of starting pitching as you did last year. Need to see which Pettite shows up for today's game, the one who pitched poorly in September or pitches strong in past playoff appearances.
Never insinuated you were, don't know where you got that idea.

Second...the starting pitching might not be as good as last year, but the bullpen is better and starting lineup is better.

Cano, Tex, and Granderson are on a tear, Swisher's having a career year, Gardner is better than he was last year, and Berkman is coming out of his slump at the right time.

The Yanks are a threat to score 5-6 runs every game. As long as the starting pitching doesn't completely collapse, they'll be fine.

Hammer

10-07-2010, 05:38 PM

The Yanks are a threat to score 5-6 runs every game. As long as the starting pitching doesn't completely collapse, they'll be fine.

And that is the big question mark for the Yankees this year: a question that was not there last year. What happens if Pettite has to be taken out in the 5 or 6th inning? Who is going to take over? You really trust Joba (I'm not even sure he is on the post season roster) in that situation?

Pagan

10-08-2010, 09:20 AM

And that is the big question mark for the Yankees this year: a question that was not there last year. What happens if Pettite has to be taken out in the 5 or 6th inning? Who is going to take over? You really trust Joba (I'm not even sure he is on the post season roster) in that situation?
Guess I didn't have to worry about that after all. :D

bostonsam

10-08-2010, 09:39 AM

My Red Sox are not in ---- so I guess I'll cheer on the Rays. So long as the Yankees don't win; I'll be happy with whatever team wins the World Series.

right on!:thumbsup: lol

Hammer

10-08-2010, 10:14 AM

Guess I didn't have to worry about that after all. :D

Yes, he did well this round. We will see how he holds up in subsequent rounds. It does not solve the issue of the Yankees not having a solid, proven 3rd starter as they had last year. Who are they throwing out there for tomorrow? Burnett is atrocious this year.

edit- my co-worker just told me that Hughes is pitching tomorrow and he is a bit nervous on how he is going to handle starting a postseason game.

Pagan

10-08-2010, 10:57 AM

Yes, he did well this round. We will see how he holds up in subsequent rounds. It does not solve the issue of the Yankees not having a solid, proven 3rd starter as they had last year. Who are they throwing out there for tomorrow? Burnett is atrocious this year.

edit- my co-worker just told me that Hughes is pitching tomorrow and he is a bit nervous on how he is going to handle starting a postseason game.
In a five or seven game series I'm not too worried about the third starter. Hughes has been solid if not spectacular. He wins one game when he pitches and the Yanks are in good shape. He loses, they're still in good shape.

The pen is also fine. You mentioned Joba ealier. Game one we didn't go to Joba, we went to Wood and he was lights out.

I'm not being cocky, but you have to remember...for all the flaws you're pointing out, this team did somehow manage to win 95 games. I'm not saying they'll win it all again, but I don't see any team out there that I don't think they can beat. ;)

Hammer

10-08-2010, 11:08 AM

In a five or seven game series I'm not too worried about the third starter. Hughes has been solid if not spectacular. He wins one game when he pitches and the Yanks are in good shape. He loses, they're still in good shape.

The pen is also fine. You mentioned Joba ealier. Game one we didn't go to Joba, we went to Wood and he was lights out.

I'm not being cocky, but you have to remember...for all the flaws you're pointing out, this team did somehow manage to win 95 games. I'm not saying they'll win it all again, but I don't see any team out there that I don't think they can beat. ;)

Really, that's not being cocky?

Yes, your team won 95 games, but that means nothing now in the post season. Phillies won 97 games in the regular season and managed to do that with almost every position player being on the DL at some point during the season. I think the opening day starting 8 played together about 30 times all season! But in the post season, the slate is wiped clean. I have confidence in the Phils, but any team can be beat or hit a rough spot at any time, so I think making statements like "I don't see any team out there that I don't think they can beat" is a bit presumptious.

Pagan

10-08-2010, 11:55 AM

Really, that's not being cocky?

Yes, your team won 95 games, but that means nothing now in the post season. Phillies won 97 games in the regular season and managed to do that with almost every position player being on the DL at some point during the season. I think the opening day starting 8 played together about 30 times all season! But in the post season, the slate is wiped clean. I have confidence in the Phils, but any team can be beat or hit a rough spot at any time, so I think making statements like "I don't see any team out there that I don't think they can beat" is a bit presumptious.
Actually, no..that's not being cocky. Had I said I don't think there's any team that can beat the Yankees, THAT would be cocky.

Read what I said: "I don't see any team out there that I don't think they can beat"

Then read what you said: "any team can be beat or hit a rough spot at any time"

We said essentially the same thing. So please don't call me presumptuous unless you understand what I'm saying.

What I meant was I don't see any team in the playoffs that makes me say, "there's no way the Yankees can beat them".

Ian

10-11-2010, 07:24 AM

Happy for the Phils. So far, H2O has pretty much been as advertised. Owalt's outing wasn't quite as good as I'd hoped, but it really didn't matter when the H's combined to throw nine shutout innings. The Phils had an earned run average of 1.00 in this series. Yikes!

Still would like to see the bats liven up a bit, though. Outside of Utley's homer and Howard's two relatively meaningless singles, the meat of our order is pretty much missing in action thus far.

Not going to get by the Giants or even the Braves if the bats don't wake up.

Melanie

10-11-2010, 07:28 AM

Brooks Conrad. :bang: :bang: :bang:

JanetMegan

10-11-2010, 08:18 AM

I was helping at a friend's wedding last night so I didn't get to watch any of it but kept checking the score, losing 0-1, winning 2-1, and next thing you know it was over and we lost! ARGGG!

JPL

10-11-2010, 11:57 AM

As a Yankee fan sitting back waiting to see who is next? And hoping for a nice 20 inning bullpen destroying game 5!

Pagan

10-11-2010, 12:27 PM

As a Yankee fan sitting back waiting to see who is next? And hoping for a nice 20 inning bullpen destroying game 5!
Either way we get a nice present of no matter who wins their ace can only face the Yanks twice in the next series. :D

PirateLover

10-11-2010, 10:14 PM

Phillies are just amazing. I think the current incarnation of the team is the best we've ever had. Cole was AMAZING last night and I have no doubt Roy O. will pull himself together for the NLCS.

The ATL-SF game hasn't ended yet but the Braves are losing. If they somehow manage to pull it out, and go on to win the series I will definitely be watching the ATL games in a rowdy bar setting. "The Chop" is driving me INSANE. It's kind of a cool thing to do every once and a while but jeez!!!! It's been like non stop throughout the duration of these games!

Melanie

10-12-2010, 06:11 AM

"The Chop" is driving me INSANE. It's kind of a cool thing to do every once and a while but jeez!!!! It's been like non stop throughout the duration of these games!

Sorry it's driving you INSANE.

Thanks for the memories Bobby. You will be missed! :yes:

PirateLover

10-12-2010, 10:43 AM

Apology accepted!!! It haunted my dreams all last night. Happy I don't have to hear it anymore. ;)
Best of luck to Bobby in his retirement.

Hammer

10-12-2010, 11:02 AM

Tomahawk Chop never really bothered me, but I was used to it from FSU.

This is a Phillies fan who always respected Bobby Cox for being able to maintain his team at such a high level all those years. It wasn't all Glavine, Maddux and Smoltz either (though that didn't hurt) I heard driving into work today that he had 9 different closers during their 14 year playoff run. I watched his press conference after the game and it was really touching.

Hats off to the Giants who stopped their celebration to applaud Bobby Cox. Very classy move :thumbsup:! Sadly, you don't see teams being respectful to one another any more. I liked that the Phillies sat in the dugout during Bobby Cox's celebration last weekend. It honestly bothered me when I was at the Wall of Fame ceremony for Harry Kalas in 2009 and the Marlins were not sitting in the dugout during the celebration.

Hammer

10-12-2010, 11:04 AM

As for tonight's game...

LET'S GO RAYS!!!

Ian

10-12-2010, 11:50 AM

Can't say I'm elated at the match-up. I mean part of me says you need to beat the best if you want to be the best, but at the same time I'd have felt a whole lot more confident about getting past the Braves than the Giants.

This pitching duel on Saturday should be something to watch, though.

As far as the AL playoffs go, I'm going to have to (strangely enough) pull for either Texas or the Yankees. I feel like the Phils could deal with the Rangers fairly easily if they make it to the Series and I feel like they'll be major revenge motivation on the Phils' side if they face the Yankees.

But I don't really want to face the Rays, because they owe us for 2008 and in professional sports revenge is a powerful motivator. They'd play their hearts out to beat the Phillies if they met again in the Series.

Melanie

10-12-2010, 11:54 AM

Hats off to the Giants who stopped their celebration to applaud Bobby Cox. Very classy move :thumbsup:! Sadly, you don't see teams being respectful to one another any more. I liked that the Phillies sat in the dugout during Bobby Cox's celebration last weekend. It honestly bothered me when I was at the Wall of Fame ceremony for Harry Kalas in 2009 and the Marlins were not sitting in the dugout during the celebration.

And this solidifies my dislike for the Marlins organization as a whole. My understanding is they were on the only team that didn't do something for Bobby when he was making his last appearances at the various stadiums.

And Maryanne, I'm so glad you don't have to hear the Chop anymore too. You know, it was just a stadium full of fans trying to help their team win and continue on for Bobby. ;)

Now....LET'S GO RAYS!!!

Scar

10-12-2010, 01:35 PM

I knew that apology was sarcastic when I read it. ;)

PirateLover

10-12-2010, 02:12 PM

Obviously I was being sarcastic/hyperbolic as well. I get the point of the chop and I think it's kind of a cool chant but it gets annoying after a continuous 8 minutes, that's all. I know why they do it, it's just like a "Let's go ____" Chant you hear at other parks. At any rate I think it proves a point that I was debating with someone the other day about the impact the crowd can have on a game.

My good luck to Bobby Cox was sincere.

PirateLover

10-12-2010, 02:15 PM

And this solidifies my dislike for the Marlins organization as a whole. My understanding is they were on the only team that didn't do something for Bobby when he was making his last appearances at the various stadiums.

Does it do anything to soften your dislike for the Phillies? :cool:

Ian

10-13-2010, 07:51 AM

As for tonight's game...

LET'S GO RAYS!!!

Now....LET'S GO RAYS!!!Oops ....

Melanie

10-13-2010, 08:00 AM

Yep, oops. Great pitching wins almost every time. My hubby is happy though.

Now, let's play hockey! :D

Hammer

10-13-2010, 08:21 AM

No oops needed. The team with the stronger pitching won. I'll be back to saying "Let's go Rays!" next season, regardless of the record.

I figure Lee will pitch in Yankee Stadium on Saturday on 3 days rest. Lee obviously doesn't have problems pitching in Yankee Stadium as we saw last year :).

Mom is fully rooting on Phillies as she does not like either AL team left in the mix. Rangers took out her Rays and the Yankees, well, that's self explanatory. She isn't going to root for any other AL East team.

Melanie

10-13-2010, 08:24 AM

I'll be back to saying "Let's go Rays!" next season, regardless of the record.

Absolutely. A Carl Crawford-less Rays. :( Why can't we let BJ go and keep Carl? ugh

Ian

10-13-2010, 08:46 AM

I have to say ... I really feel for the Rays franchise. To have such a talented team that gets absolutely zero fan support at the local level must be very frustrating.

And now, it seems, young stars like Longoria have lost the opportunity to contend for a title. Next season the Rays stand to lose the majority of their top tier talent ... if memory serves Crawford, Pena, Soriano are all free agents ... which means that their window is basically closed.

If I owned the Rays I think I'd have a very difficult time justifying not moving the team elsewhere.

Melanie

10-13-2010, 08:48 AM

If I owned the Rays I think I'd have a very difficult time justifying not moving the team elsewhere.

Hmmm..how about to Tampa?

Ian

10-13-2010, 08:48 AM

Hmmm..how about to Tampa?Okay ... don't get it ... what's the joke? :confused:

Melanie

10-13-2010, 09:11 AM

Okay ... don't get it ... what's the joke? :confused:

No joke. St. Pete is waaaay out there! From my house in the eastern 'burbs of Tampa, it takes us an hour without traffic to get there. In comparison, it takes us 20 minutes to get to the Forum where the Lightning play, and 30 tops to get to Ray J where the Bucs play. This is a legit concern for most people around here, us included. I hear it on local sports talk radio, I hear it at my kids' ballgames, I hear at the kids' schools, I hear it at the grocery store. Who wants to drive that far to see a game in a dump? We do it multiple times a year, but we're serious baseball fans. But when school starts, all bets are off. Build a NICE stadium located centrally in Tampa, and they will come. Make it an experience. They will come from St. Pete, they will come from all around Tampa, and I venture to say they could even pull more from the east (Orlando area) with the shorter drive.

And granted, I don't know a lot about the Rays ownership like I do the Bucs and Lightning, but it is quite evident around here who goes out more in regards to advertising. You see Bucs and Lightning billboards everywhere. Buc and Lightning playes are making appearances all the time. Rays...nothing.

And even if they thought they were helping things, Price and Longo calling out the fans wasn't a great idea.

Ian

10-13-2010, 09:17 AM

Yeah, but playing Devil's advocate for a minute how is the guy supposed to spend a fortune on advertising when he can at best only draw 20,000 fans to a game.

And I'm fairly certain he'll get zero support for public funding to help build him a new stadium in downtown Tampa or anywhere else.

I guess driving an hour to see a sporting event ... especially a World Series game! ... doesn't seem that daunting to me. That's how far I have to drive (maybe longer in traffic) if I want to see the Phils, Eagles, or Flyers.

Melanie

10-13-2010, 09:24 AM

I guess driving an hour to see a sporting event ... especially a World Series game! ... doesn't seem that daunting to me. That's how far I have to drive (maybe longer in traffic) if I want to see the Phils, Eagles, or Flyers.

And you live in a big city with a much bigger population, and a totally different fan base. You've got to cater to the fan base. And maybe that's why a baseball team might not work IN ST. PETE in the long run. Too many northern transplants, retirees and military personnel with lifetime loyalties to other teams.

Ian

10-13-2010, 10:14 AM

And maybe that's why a baseball team might not work IN ST. PETE in the long run. Too many northern transplants, retirees and military personnel with lifetime loyalties to other teams.Yeah, I'm sure that doesn't help things. You're probably relying heavily drawing only folks who view a baseball game as a fun way to spend a summer afternoon not necessarily die-hard Rays fans to fill that stadium.

If you make it hard for them to get there and enjoy the game, you're sort of shooting yourself in the foot.

Hammer

10-13-2010, 10:40 AM

Sorry coming in to this discussion late, stupid work gets in the way!

Ian, I think that putting the stadium in Tampa would definitely increase the number of people who would attend games. I hear it from my family in Tampa all the time; they don't want to be bothered to cross the Howard Frankland bridge for anything. I can't tell you how some of my relatives complained when my parents moved to Clearwater, 5 minutes off the bridge!

Ian, they do have good fan support on TV. The ratings for Rays games are in the top 10 for all MLB teams. This further supports the idea that you put the stadium in a centrally located area, people will come.

Ian

10-13-2010, 11:04 AM

Ian, they do have good fan support on TV. The ratings for Rays games are in the top 10 for all MLB teams. This further supports the idea that you put the stadium in a centrally located area, people will come.True, but you have to think of it this way ...

The owner's not making any money because no one is coming to the games and, from what I've heard, there is a zero change of him getting public money to fund a new stadium in Tampa.

So as a businessman, what would you do? Spend a billion dollars of your own money to build a stadium in Tampa and then cross your fingers that people show up? Or move the team to a city where there is a willingness to help with stadium funding and a known quantity in terms of a fan attendance at the games.

I know what choice I'd make.

Melanie

10-13-2010, 11:27 AM

I wish Jeff Vinik would buy the team. :idea: He's an owner who cares and wants to do well by Tampa.

And seriously, the Trop just really stinks. I've been to a lot of stadiums, and it's by far the worst. The atmosphere is almost zero. I've been to many minor league stadiums that are better than the Trop! Around here, there are much more quality things to do on a casual family outing than an afternoon at the DUMP. Build a new stadium, make it an experience, and people would go.

And the public funding for the stadium thing from what I understand is more of a rift between the cities of St. Pete and Tampa. I don't understand it all, but things aren't good there.

Hammer

10-13-2010, 11:33 AM

True, but you have to think of it this way ...

The owner's not making any money because no one is coming to the games and, from what I've heard, there is a zero change of him getting public money to fund a new stadium in Tampa.

So as a businessman, what would you do? Spend a billion dollars of your own money to build a stadium in Tampa and then cross your fingers that people show up? Or move the team to a city where there is a willingness to help with stadium funding and a known quantity in terms of a fan attendance at the games.

I know what choice I'd make.

Ian, I believe that there is the willingness for County and State money to be put towards the project, just that they won't fund all of it, which seems to be what the owner wants. The state of Florida wants a deal similar to Citizens Bank Park. That was built with about 50% of the money coming from the Phillies, half from the state of Pennslyvania. This owner just does not want to put in enough money. About 2 years ago, they was only 30 million dollar gap (which in the grand scheme is not that much when talking stadiums) and this owner wasn't willing to bridge the gap or partner with another person to get the money.

This unwillingness to spend will hurt him trying to move the team elsewhere, too. Sure, there may be other cities willing to put up some money to attract the Rays, but as of now, they aren't offering him enough to please him.

And the public funding for the stadium thing from what I understand is more of a rift between the cities of St. Pete and Tampa. I don't understand it all, but things aren't good there.

Yeah, that plays into it as well, and this sort of thing has been happening down there for ages.

Ian

10-13-2010, 12:56 PM

I can see both sides of it ... he's assuming a lot of risk in terms of building a new stadium without a proven fan base to support it. I'm certain he has financial experts who are advising him what the max amount is that makes good fiscal sense to spend against a new stadium that comes with the inherent risks this one would.

Also, knowing very little about how the team is organized, it's management structure, etc. it's quite possible that the decision may not rest entirely with him. And if he has shareholders or investors then he needs to be prudent managing their money or he risks exposure to breach of fiduciary responsibility suits and things.

It's very complex, but I have to say that as a team owner I would adopt the "You come and then I'll build it" mentality over the "If I build it they will come" mentality.

sportsguy2315

10-13-2010, 01:19 PM

And seriously, the Trop just really stinks. I've been to a lot of stadiums, and it's by far the worst.

Not to mention the location is less than desirable and out of the way for most being in downtown St. Pete...I am by no means an expert when it comes to the Bay Area, but placing a team in a more central location (i.e. near or along I-4) will boost attendance by itself.

I met a guy when I was down for Spring Training several years ago. He buys the equivalent of a season ticket and that's all he goes to. I asked him why he doesn't take advantage of the Rays being so close and he said quite bluntly, "The stadium we sit in is way better than the Trop ever will be." They have the fans, the question is how or why they will come.

Hammer

10-13-2010, 02:28 PM

And seriously, the Trop just really stinks. I've been to a lot of stadiums, and it's by far the worst. The atmosphere is almost zero. I've been to many minor league stadiums that are better than the Trop! Around here, there are much more quality things to do on a casual family outing than an afternoon at the DUMP. Build a new stadium, make it an experience, and people would go.

Not to mention the location is less than desirable and out of the way for most being in downtown St. Pete...I am by no means an expert when it comes to the Bay Area, but placing a team in a more central location (i.e. near or along I-4) will boost attendance by itself.

I met a guy when I was down for Spring Training several years ago. He buys the equivalent of a season ticket and that's all he goes to. I asked him why he doesn't take advantage of the Rays being so close and he said quite bluntly, "The stadium we sit in is way better than the Trop ever will be." They have the fans, the question is how or why they will come.

These comments are not unique. If ownership would actually listen to the fan base they would see that they will get more fans to games in a better location and a better stadium.
Remember, the Marlins ownership was offered the same amount of money from the state as the Rays and they managed to make it work and are building a new stadium.

I wish Jeff Vinik would buy the team. :idea: He's an owner who cares and wants to do well by Tampa.

Sadly, Mel, this owner is actually better than the previous owner. This one actually added things like MacDillville and the Beach Bar.

Hammer

10-13-2010, 02:37 PM

Oh, and don't use Spring training attendance in Clearwater for the Phillies as a barometer for willingness to travel for pro baseball. Phillies fans will travel to the top of a mountain in Tibet to see the team at Spring Training. They even drew well at the old stadium and that place was horrible and in the middle of a residential neighborhood with practically no parking.

Melanie

10-13-2010, 02:50 PM

And in Miami, which is also a terrible stadium (but of course they fill it up with Dolphins fans), they are building what looks to be a very nice stadium. The retractable roof will keep the temp comfortable, and even with a roof, a stadium can have good baseball atmosphere (like Houston). Maybe if it goes over, Tampa will be more likely to follow suit.

Melanie

10-13-2010, 02:53 PM

Remember, the Marlins ownership was offered the same amount of money from the state as the Rays and they managed to make it work and are building a new stadium.

We were replying at the same time. Well kinda, I hadn't seen your reply. I'm slow this afternoon. :D

Oh, and don't use Spring training attendance in Clearwater for the Phillies as a barometer for willingness to travel for pro baseball. Phillies fans will travel to the top of a mountain in Tibet to see the team at Spring Training. They even drew well at the old stadium and that place was horrible and in the middle of a residential neighborhood with practically no parking.

Definitely would fit into the 'better than the Trop' category. You wouldn't catch me dead there for Spring Training ;) , but we like to go see the Threshers. Very nice place!

sportsguy2315

10-13-2010, 05:03 PM

Oh, and don't use Spring training attendance in Clearwater for the Phillies as a barometer for willingness to travel for pro baseball.

This was at a Twins spring training game in Ft. Myers where it's about even distance between Tampa and Miami (Where I have seen a Marlins game, and despite it being their 2003 WS Championship year and their phenom in Dontrelle Willis pitching the place was next to deserted). He had much meaner, non-Intercot appropriate things to say about Dolphin Stadium. :noevil:

Granted, the cool-looking "sail stadium" won't happen (For more than just cost; it's still out in St. Pete and thus won't attract the masses). If the Rays want to focus on St. Pete as their market, so be it. However, they're learning that they're self-alienating themselves out of the pockets of Central Floridians and tourists as well.

PirateLover

10-13-2010, 05:19 PM

Just to add my :twocents: winning begets popularity and fans- the Rays have a few decent seasons under their belt and a talented team, so it doesn't surprise me that the TV ratings are good. I do believe that if the stadium was nicer and in a more centralized location that they would not have a problem filling the stands. You see the bandwagon jumpers all over major league sports, Philly included.I remember back in the late 90s, early 2000s on the day of a game we would go up to the window, by a 700 level ticket for under $10 and then have our pick of seats. The new stadium and a team getting better each year definitely brought in more fans than the old Vet, but even the year they went to the World Series, we went to every game that opening home stand when it was windy and cold and miserable and they were losing and almost entire sections of the upper deck were empty. Yet here we are now at some ridiculous number of consecutive sellouts, something like 122, and there's a waiting list for season tickets!

But, the thing is, our stadiums are accessible. From within and right outside the city limits, your commute will be under 45 minutes and sometimes as short as 5 if that. From my parent's house it was a 10 min car ride, from my apartment in South Jersey it's 20-30 minutes depending on traffic. Thousands of people just hop on the subway. Very commuter friendly.

It's a shame because I wish every fan at some point gets to experience the electricity that we Phillies fans get to have when we go to these games and I wish every pro player would have the opportunity to have this kind of a base behind them. It is something to behold. This is the most consistent, most exciting team of any of the 4 Philly sports teams that I've ever seen and it only makes you fall in love with the sport even more.

Pagan

10-20-2010, 10:04 AM

Okay it's football season! LOL!

Ian

10-20-2010, 10:20 AM

Okay it's football season! LOL!:ditto:

Although the Phils aren't quite as bad off as the Yanks are (yet) if they don't wake up and start playing with some passion they're all but eliminated.

I'm actually very disappointed in their efforts thus far. I don't get any sense that they have any real desire to win. And that goes about quadruple for Jason Werth, who is really beginning to crawl solidly into my doghouse. He's been awful this post-season and I'm starting to get the idea that he's basically packed it in and ready to move on to his big payday.

Ditto for Raul Ibanez who I would flat-out bench if I was Manuel. He's been just brutal. He's 0-fer in the playoffs and, when coming up in a big spot last night, it wasn't good enough to just get himself out ... he had to ground into a DP to end the entire game!

Horrible. I can forgive being outplayed, but lack of effort? No.