ANOTHER Bus Accident 4/3/10

[MegaDisney]

From eCanadaNow:

ORLANDO, FLORIDA – Disney bus driver Fredrick Cassenas has been ticketed after an accident Saturday at the Walt Disney World theme park.

There were 19 passengers aboard the Walt Disney World bus when it rear ended a car that was stopped at a stop light. The force thrust the car forward causing it to strike the back of a van which is also owned by Disney. There were no injuries reported.

The accident is a third in a series of incidents involving bus drivers at the popular spring break and vacation resort. The first incident took place on March 23 when a Disney transport bus struck a parked charter bus. Although there were no passengers aboard the charter bus at the time eight passengers aboard the Disney bus were injured. The driver was cited by police for reckless driving.

On April 1 eleven year old Chas Brubaker was struck by a bus at the Fort Wilderness Campground on the Walt Disney World property and was killed. Police state that there is evidence that the boy first struck the side of the bus before being run over the the right rear tire of the bus. A witness statement contradicts this claim.

[DizneyRox]

Really, I can't believe these are all just "accidents". Something tells me fatigue or lack of training is coming into play all over the WDW resort, not just transportation. It's going to show it's head in areas like transportation, but I wouldn't be surprised if there were all sorts of safety lapses...

[MegaDisney]

Maybe it is finally time for WDW to explore a light rail system. It would minimize the "human error" part of the equation.

I am glad it appears no one was hurt in this one, but if it keeps up, Bus Accidents will need their own forum here!

[Polynesian Dweller]

And yesterday in Denver a bus ran a red light and hit two cars resulting in 1 dead and 15 injured. Let's stop the angst about Disney. Accidents happen every where. WDW is twice the area oh Manhatten Island, it's going to have it's share of accidents but they will likely be mire widely reported than in other jurisdictions.

[Melanie]

Bus driver, 80, charged in 3rd Disney bus crash in 2 weeks


A Disney bus driver was charged with careless driving after two passenger vehicles were struck by his bus shortly before noon Saturday.

Florida Highway Patrol identified the driver as Fredrick Cassens, 80, of Auburndale. He struck the back of a 2009 Chevrolet sport utility vehicle that was stopped at a red light at East Buena Vista and World drives, troopers said. The impact caused the Chevy to hit the back of a 1999 GMC van, also a Disney vehicle, that was stopped for the light, too.

WESH.com reported that 19 people were on the Disney bus. There were said to be no injuries.

A check of Cassens' driving record shows one infraction, a 2004 charge of failing to obey a traffic-control device in Osceola County. He admitted guilt and paid a fine.

The crash was the third such event on the theme park's property in the past two weeks. The most recent killed a 9-year-old Pinellas County boy, who was run over Thursday after his bicycle drifted into the side of a Disney bus at Fort Wilderness Resort , investigators said.

Asked whether the company would alter its bus-travel procedures in light of the accidents, spokeswoman Andrea Finger said Disney World continually analyzes its operations, including transportation. About 300 buses operate on Disney property every day, she said.

"Based on the information provided by the Florida Highway Patrol [on the crashes], we continue to believe that our transportation is safe," Finger said.

An online ad for bus drivers states that they must have a commercial drivers license, conduct bus-safety inspections and answer guest questions. There is no upper age limit, although drivers must pass a physical at least once every two years, Finger said. Starting pay is $10.25 per hour.

Copyright © 2010, Orlando Sentinel

[DiannaJ]

I am with Poly Dweller. Accidents happen everyday but because it is Disney it makes the headlines because there has been so many of them here lately. I have to ask one thing with this latest accident though why is there an 80 year old person driving a passenger bus? The abilty to react quickly to changing traffic which as most of of know can be very busy on Disney property is not safe for someone that age as we all know reaction slow as we get older so he should not be driving a bus. I had a friend who worked there until they cut her hours and her pay so much she had to quit but the training has also been cut back also. Pay cuts and such will result in safety issues and until they hire more qualified people and pay them enough to stay this will continue unfortunalty. They already replaced there safety director so that isn't the issue it runs alot deeper than that.

[Georgesgirl1]

Wow, I have to wonder about an 80 year old driving a WDW bus. I know that mnay older people can be good drivers, but I also know that reaction times slow down as you get older. It seems like their would be an upper limit.

[PirateLover]

I don't think it's totally unjustified that people tend to hold Disney to a higher standard. Over the years they've built that expectation for themselves. Disney transportation is part of your vacation experience. It IS different in my opinion than boarding your local public transit bus. That is why it makes news.

I am glad that nobody got hurt.

[gollybass]

accidents happen

[Ed]

I have to ask one thing with this latest accident though why is there an 80 year old person driving a passenger bus?


Wow, I have to wonder about an 80 year old driving a WDW bus.

Two words explain it; Age Discrimination.

Under state law, a person cannot be denied a driver's license (and hence employment based on the fact that they have the proper class license) solely on the basis of age.

[Ian]

And yesterday in Denver a bus ran a red light and hit two cars resulting in 1 dead and 15 injured. Let's stop the angst about Disney. Accidents happen every where. WDW is twice the area oh Manhatten Island, it's going to have it's share of accidents but they will likely be mire widely reported than in other jurisdictions.Well that sort of disregards the trend, though.

Walt Disney World has had bus service to the extent is has now for about 12 years. During the first 11 years, to the best of my knowledge, there were no major accidents involving their busses or monorails.

Now you've got not one, not two, not three, not four, not five, but at least six significant accidents involving Walt Disney World transportation in the last 12 months.

I think it would be foolish to ignore the significance of that trend. I, for one, am developing serious concerns about my family's safety in WDW. There have just been way too many of these kinds of incidents in a very short period of time not to be concerned.

[Amy_617]

Well that sort of disregards the trend, though.

Walt Disney World has had bus service to the extent is has now for about 12 years. During the first 11 years, to the best of my knowledge, there were no major accidents involving their busses or monorails.

Now you've got not one, not two, not three, not four, not five, but at least six significant accidents involving Walt Disney World transportation in the last 12 months.

I think it would be foolish to ignore the significance of that trend. I, for one, am developing serious concerns about my family's safety in WDW. There have just been way too many of these kinds of incidents in a very short period of time not to be concerned.

Completely Agree!! :exactly:

[joonyer]

Yep. They are between a rock and a hard place. If they deny employment to someone solely because of their age, when they can pass the commercial driver's license exam, they could be successfully sued for age discrimination. An employer cannot even ask for someone's age on their application or during an interview. An employer can require regular testing to ensure competence, but if they pass the tests, they would have to find another reason than age to take them off the road.

[joonyer]

. . . . . I think it would be foolish to ignore the significance of that trend. I, for one, am developing serious concerns about my family's safety in WDW. There have just been way too many of these kinds of incidents in a very short period of time not to be concerned.

Statistically speaking, we are still taking about anecdotal evidence here, and people are in just as much danger, if not more so, traveling and driving in their home cities as they are in WDW. So if you have "serious concerns" about the safety of your family while traveling in WDW, you should be just as seriously concerned about their safety going to work school , church, etc. in your own community.

Statistically, one is much safer using public transportation than they are driving or riding in their own vehicles. I don't think WDW should ignore or blow off this recent spate of accidents, but I think it is disingenuous to more concerned with the safety of our families while we are at WDW than we are at home.

That being said we shouldn't lulled into a false sense of security while at WDW either, although that is easy to do since the essence of the experience of being at WDW is to feel like you have escaped from the "real" world and all of the negative things that happen there, and that all we should experience at WDW is "magic" and happiness. But in spite of those "feelings", WDW is still a real place, where real people work with real machines, and sometimes mistakes are made and sometimes accidents happen. "Life" and all of its experiences come with risk. The only way to make WDW perfectly safe would be for it not to exist. And who wants that?

[BrerGnat]

Listen, I just got back from a week at WDW. We used ONLY WDW transportation the whole week.

At NO point did I feel unsafe. There was no evidence of lax safety standards during our trip. On the contrary, the drivers of the buses and monorail CM's (at the stations) were EXTREMELY strict about safety protocol. Buses were not being packed to the gills, like I've seen in years past. If a bus got even remotely full, it would take off and another bus would soon follow.

I honestly feel that, the monorail incident aside, these bus accidents are truly JUST accidents. Let's be straight...the boy on the bike who was killed obviously made a judgment error. I will be amazingly shocked if it is found that the bus driver was even REMOTELY to blame in that accident.

And, a bus rear ending a car? Come on. That happens thousands of times a day all over the world! How many of you have been involved in a fender bender like that? I bet more than half of us...

I will say that I feel WDW should institute upper age limits for operators of their transport vehicles. They can put the older CMs into other roles. It is simply unsafe to have an 80 year old driving a bus, ANYWHERE. He/she could have a heart attack, stroke, etc. while driving, which has a statistically high chance of happening when anyone is 80...

In fact, the ONLY "bad" driver we had was on the DME bus back to the airport. He was "gas, brake, gas, brake, gas, brake" all the way there! But, TECHNICALLY he was not a Disney employee...

[Ian]

Statistically speaking, we are still taking about anecdotal evidence here, and people are in just as much danger, if not more so, traveling and driving in their home cities as they are in WDW. So if you have "serious concerns" about the safety of your family while traveling in WDW, you should be just as seriously concerned about their safety going to work school , church, etc. in your own community.Oh absolutely. You're preaching to the choir when it comes to risk assessments. I still laugh when people say they're afraid to fly, so they're going to drive 1,000 miles to Walt Disney World instead. I often wonder if they realize that they're probably 1,000 times more likely to die in a car accident on the way than they are to be involved in any kind of incident on an airplane (which are statistically the safest mode of transport there is).

But again, it's more the trend that concerns me. It's no different than how I would react if Southwest suddenly had four plane crashes in a six month period or if SEPTA (our city transportation entity) had a half dozen bus crashes all in a row.

It should be noted, though, that I'm not 100% sure that there have been more accidents lately than usual. It could just be that the media is more focused on it and reporting it more widely than they did in the past due to the fatality on the monorail.

[faline]

It should be noted, though, that I'm not 100% sure that there have been more accidents lately than usual. It could just be that the media is more focused on it and reporting it more widely than they did in the past due to the fatality on the monorail.

This is likely part of the equation. Just think about the times when there is actually a plane crash - for at least six weeks afterwards, the news media reports on every near miss and unplanned landing that takes place and then it all disappears. It's not that these incidents have disappeared, it's just that they're not being reported on by the major, national news carriers.

[seanyred]

Oh absolutely. You're preaching to the choir when it comes to risk assessments. I still laugh when people say they're afraid to fly, so they're going to drive 1,000 miles to Walt Disney World instead. I often wonder if they realize that they're probably 1,000 times more likely to die in a car accident on the way than they are to be involved in any kind of incident on an airplane (which are statistically the safest mode of transport there is).

But again, it's more the trend that concerns me. It's no different than how I would react if Southwest suddenly had four plane crashes in a six month period or if SEPTA (our city transportation entity) had a half dozen bus crashes all in a row.

It should be noted, though, that I'm not 100% sure that there have been more accidents lately than usual. It could just be that the media is more focused on it and reporting it more widely than they did in the past due to the fatality on the monorail.

Agree the trend of more accidents is concerning but I don't think it is any more unsafe at Disney then it is when I'm driving with my DS on the highways around Chicago.

Also I think accidents at WDW are being reported on more frequently because of the fatality last year. Unfortuantly we live in a society now where sesational news is more improtant the real news.

On antoher side note I did have one bad experience on a Disney Bus last November. We got on the bus at Kidani..while walking towards the back to take our seats the bus driver pulled away quickly with out moving. My DS almost fell face first into the steps. Fortuantly the person sitting on the upper part and myself prevented it from happening. Needless to say we reported to the incident and spoke with transportaion supervisor directly and were told that the driver would not be driving the rest of the day. Moral of the story if you notice bus drivers not doing their job correctly please report them.

[joonyer]

. . . . But again, it's more the trend that concerns me. It's no different than how I would react if Southwest suddenly had four plane crashes in a six month period or if SEPTA (our city transportation entity) had a half dozen bus crashes all in a row.

It should be noted, though, that I'm not 100% sure that there have been more accidents lately than usual. It could just be that the media is more focused on it and reporting it more widely than they did in the past due to the fatality on the monorail.

I absolutely agree that WDW should be paying attention to the "trend" and investigating to see if there is some factor(s) under their control that needs to be reviewed, changed or addressed (i.e. training, testing, etc.) or if the recent "spate" of accidents just due to randomness.

[Melanie]

Oh absolutely. You're preaching to the choir when it comes to risk assessments. I still laugh when people say they're afraid to fly, so they're going to drive 1,000 miles to Walt Disney World instead. I often wonder if they realize that they're probably 1,000 times more likely to die in a car accident on the way than they are to be involved in any kind of incident on an airplane (which are statistically the safest mode of transport there is).


OT, but you apparently have no idea what it's like to have a true fear of something. I'm glad you can laugh about it.

[magicalmom]

We've had several Metro train and bus accidents in the last year here in DC. Within a couple of weeks of the DC Metro derailment last summer, the Disney monorail fatality happened in FL and a similar subway accident occured in LA. (I'm paranoid. so figured that the "bad guys" were messing with transit computer systems)

But actually, my guess is, it's not Disney related, specifically, but more likely that all these incidents are a function of transit systems generally stretching maintenence (sp?) intervals farther than anybody used to, because of the economy. I would also expect, if we could find out the actual number of accident-free "man-miles" driven at WDW relative to other large transit system, Disney's is among the very safest systems.

Finally, weird little clusters of incidents do, statistically speaking, occur frequently in the short run. You need lots more data to identify a trend. (If you're into the math, you can check this by flipping a coin in groups of ten tries, and compare those result of those small samples to those obtained by flipping a coin a thousand times, or ten thousand times. Just a suggestion, if you have nothing else to do or are the parent of idle children. :mickey:)

[Dixie Springs]

I concurr with Magical Mom's assessment. Though it does seem like a trend, I think it is more freak coincidence. Unless the actual causes of all of these incidents could be tied to a common source, I don't believe it is a trend with a resolution, per se.

I liken it to the bad-luck run of Typhoon Lagoon guest-pervs making the news not too long ago. It seemed like the waterpark was a sex-offender magnet - but these were separate, unrelated incidents, despite their rapid succession and creepiness.

Nonetheless, look for a new Universal Studios thrill-ride whereby an octogenarian takes control of a theme park bus...

[LuvDaDuckMost]

Disney has spent the past three years scaling down and eliminating jobs by way of massive layoffs done in batches so as not to alert the media any more than necessary. Unfortunately, employees not laid off are working longer shifts do to mandatory overtime. Hence drivers are tired and over worked but 'thankful' to have their jobs. Also, if you visited the Magic Kingdom twenty years ago and then today some of the differences are obvious. Use to be, there were people in white suits walking around cleaning the grounds. You never saw anything on the grounds. Everything was clean. Now the streets are sticky and popcorn and trash abound. Along with cigarette butts which considering Disney received an award for being smoke free is such a slap in the face. But, most of the accidents etc., are all do to Disney downsizing and it is only going to get worse.

[MegaDisney]

It is now being rumored that this driver was nearing the end of a 13 hour shift...

[NewDVCowner]

It is now being rumored that this driver was nearing the end of a 13 hour shift...

That's kind of along the lines of what I was expecting. Everyone, not just Disney, is cutting costs lately and you know that the ways they cut down is going to affect how things happen. Either people are working longer shifts, training is either less than it was, or there is more time between them, perhaps maintenance has been scaled back to the bare minimum, that sort of thing. I'd be VERY surprised if things haven't changed with the way Disney is running their bussing system that doesn't factor into these accedents.

[DizneyRox]

It is now being rumored that this driver was nearing the end of a 13 hour shift...
Disney Executive: Do we really need all these people on staff? Who's going to notice if we cut some jobs and require a little overtime. We'll be saving a ton on benefits!

Nurse: Are you allergic to any medication sir?

Dr. A: [To parents] I'm sorry, there was nothing we could do to save your son.

Dr. B: Ma'am, on a scale of 1 to 10, 10 being the worst pain you've felt, how much pain are you in?

Hindsight is always 20/20 though...

This is all rumors and speculation of course!

[crltkcagle]

I agree accidents happen. INstead of saying third incident in two weeks lets look at how many weeks they have gone without an incident.

[DiannaJ]

If he was driving for 13 hours he was in violation of Dot (department of transportation) hours of service regulations. Anyone driving with a commercial drivers license shall not drive more than 11 hours a day and be on duty no more than 14 hours a day. This is not a violation I see Disney making and I really don't see an 80 year old being able to stay awake that long without having to take a nap. The fines that they the driver and Disney would face would be substantial. ..

[Tink#64]

IMO, these are all very sad "accidents" which always becomes NEWS when they happen at WDW! I'm sure I would feel differently if any of these accidents happend to me, of course, we all do, it's human nature, but accidents happen everywhere everyday & they don't become BIG NEWS! All of my family, friends & co-workers know that I'm a uge Disney fan, so whenever these incidents make the news - I hear about them from everyone! When it comes to WDW, it seems that every negative incident becomes BIG NEWS! For a place that's operational 365 days of the year, and the most popular/visited vacation site on earth, I personally think that the incidents seem few and far in between!

We will be in WDW in 51 days and even though we'll have our own vehicle, we'll be using WDW transpo exclusively, I'm sure all of these incidents will be in the back of my mind, and I don't think we'll pile onto those packed busses with standing room only, but these incidents won't keep us from using the busses or the monorail! Accidents are always unfortunate events for all those involved, and I can only pray for those involved and for us that luck is with us, because sometimes that's all we can do. :mickey:

[Scar]

If he was driving for 13 hours he was in violation of Dot (department of transportation) hours of service regulations. Anyone driving with a commercial drivers license shall not drive more than 11 hours a day and be on duty no more than 14 hours a day.Well, the rumor said:


It is now being rumored that this driver was nearing the end of a 13 hour shift...As long as he wasn't driving at least 2 of those hours, then It should be OK.

[Puppy Mom]

If he was driving for 13 hours he was in violation of Dot (department of transportation) hours of service regulations. Anyone driving with a commercial drivers license shall not drive more than 11 hours a day and be on duty no more than 14 hours a day. This is not a violation I see Disney making and I really don't see an 80 year old being able to stay awake that long without having to take a nap. The fines that they the driver and Disney would face would be substantial. ..

AN 80 YEAR OLD is driving a bus for 11 hours a day!!!! What is Disney THINKING hiring people that old to drive a bus? I am all for hiring senior citizens to work at Disney, but that is just ridiculous.