Queueless wait system testing at RnRC

[MidnTPK]

Re-posting from Orlando Attractions Magazine:


Last week, we told you about Disney testing a queueless meet-and-greet system in Fantasyland at the Magic Kingdom in which parents would wait in line while their children played in a playground until it was time for everyone to meet a character.

Now it appears that testing continues this week but on a larger scale, taking place at the Rock ‘n’ Roller Coaster attraction at Disney’s Hollywood Studios. Guests wanting to participate are given cards and invited to wait in a stand by area, rather than a stand by queue.

According to TouringPlans on Twitter, this area includes shade, a DJ, merchandise, and Guitar Hero video games and seems to be aimed at entertaining guests comfortably while they wait to ride. The comparison to how a supermarket deli works still stands, as guests are called by the letter-number combination on their cards.

Guests are not required to wait in the stand-by area but must report to the attraction within five minutes of their group being called or they will lose their chance to ride. The normal stand-by and Fastpass lines are still available during the testing.

While it wasn’t quite as obvious during the recent meet-and-greet testing, it’s fairly clear now that Disney is indeed testing the system they announced for the enhanced Dumbo ride that’s part of the upcoming Fantasyland expansion. Since the Dumbo portion of the expansion won’t be open until 2012, Disney certainly has plenty of time to decide on the details on how this system works.

[MidnTPK]

I'd bet that this is really a test of going to a 100% FastPass like/virtual queue.

Why would Disney want to do that?

1. Retail and dining revenue. Less time standing in line, more time to spend money elsewhere.

2. Combining security and park ticket into one step. If everyone has to produce a park ticket to get on every ride (the way Disney used to do it) getting into the park does not have to be as big a deal. And a 100% virtual queue will have to eventually be automated, like FastPass, or Disney will lose track of who is holding a fastpass and who is holding a ticket for standby.

3. Offering a first class experience to premium paying guests. If everyone has to step up to a machine to find their place in line, premium guest could be given a ticket in group B2 instead of C5. Or get a time window in the fastpass, instead of getting a alpha-numeric group. Without creating class-envy, beacuse everybody goes to the FastPass machines now.

[GrumpyFan]

This sounds interesting. Of course, Disney's hoping that if you're not in line, then you'll be more likely to spend money.

[BrerGnat]

I'd be ALL for this on a larger scale. But, not sure how it would (could) work. SO many people still don't know about or understand how FP works...

[Ian]

Maybe I'm just not getting it ... is this something that would become like FastPass 2.0? Or is this something that would eventually replace the idea of a line completely?

It seems to me that managing throughput this way would be a challenge.

[LoriSan]

I don't know about things at RnR, but I would have a problem with letting my DS5 run off in a playground while I stand in line. I am a parent that follows my child around the playground without taking my eye off him.

[gerald72]

I don't know about things at RnR, but I would have a problem with letting my DS5 run off in a playground while I stand in line. I am a parent that follows my child around the playground without taking my eye off him.

Maybe the playground is within view of the line.

[BowTie7]

Legoland in California does this with at least one (probably more) of their rides--parents wait in line, with a view of a play area (with Legos, of course)

[ibelieveindisneymagic]

This is an interesting idea, it will be intriguing to see how it actually plays out. I second the idea that so many people can't figure out how to use a FP, let alone a queueless line!

[BigRedDad]

The way I understand the system is everyone is given a "boarding group" like Southwest. They call out "boarding Group B2". All people with the B2 boarding pass now moves from the virtual queue outside and now moves into the traditional queue. This keeps people from standing in a chain link queue for an hour. Now, they can wait somewhere else to shop, spend more money on concessions, and lets kids run about a bit instead of waiting in a line.

[bouncer]

This would be a great idea as long as it executes as intended. You could possibly eliminate line cutting and arguments and grumpy children all at once. :thumbsup:

[BMan62]

The way I understand the system is everyone is given a "boarding group" like Southwest. They call out "boarding Group B2". All people with the B2 boarding pass now moves from the virtual queue outside and now moves into the traditional queue. This keeps people from standing in a chain link queue for an hour. Now, they can wait somewhere else to shop, spend more money on concessions, and lets kids run about a bit instead of waiting in a line.

And what happens if you miss your 'boarding group'? Will it be like the FP system and allow you to board any time AFTER your 'group' is called? Or will they be strict and force anyone missing their 'group' to get another pass?

[Ian]

And what happens if you miss your 'boarding group'? Will it be like the FP system and allow you to board any time AFTER your 'group' is called? Or will they be strict and force anyone missing their 'group' to get another pass?The original story explains that ...


Guests are not required to wait in the stand-by area but must report to the attraction within five minutes of their group being called or they will lose their chance to ride.

[Altair]

This is just going to make the common areas of the park more crowded once it is implemented parkwide.

[MidnTPK]

This is just going to make the common areas of the park more crowded once it is implemented parkwide.

But space will open up if they make queue areas smaller. Space that cold have interactive games, entertainment, benches, retail....instead of winding in a zigzagging chain link fence.

[wdwfansince75]

This is just going to make the common areas of the park more crowded once it is implemented parkwide.

For the Math nuts....Replaces Queueing Theory with Chaos Theory....Picture this....approximately 45 minutes to 1 hour of throughput for Soaring pulled from the queue and released back into the other areas of The Land Pavilion...or the diverted throughput of BTMRR and Splash released back into Frontierland....Or the traffic jam with all those now-queueless (and clueless) people from Stitch, Buzz, Astro, and Space Mtn jammed into Tomorrowland...For an already crowded MK, especially, IMHO, this will cause multiple choke points....Also note that there will be more active strollers and ECV, since people will not park them until their group is called. This will (should) cause them to change the crowd status numbers for the most crowded times of the year....Imagine releasing an hour or more of throughput for the top 5 or so attractions from the queues back into the park!

[MOJoe]

It seems to me that managing throughput this way would be a challenge.

I agree. This process is tedious even on a small scale. Anyone who has waited for their name to be called at O'Hana or the Crystal Palace knows how frustrating it can be when dozens of parties are milling around in an undefined queue. Multiply the numbers by 10 or 20 and i can't even imagine the amount of chaos that would ensue.

[MidnTPK]

Maybe I'm just not getting it ... is this something that would become like FastPass 2.0? Or is this something that would eventually replace the idea of a line completely?

It seems to me that managing throughput this way would be a challenge.
I absolutely think this is a step toward a FastPass 2.0.....and eventual 100% FastPass for many rides. While I'm not sure that people have had to show their park ticket for this week's test, from an operational perspective, this has to be part of an overall system.

Unless a guest has to produce a park ticket to get a place in the new virtual line, there is no way Disney could manage throughput. People could collect tickets for all of the queueless rides at once. And unless Disney is planning on significantly increasing ride throughput/capacity, there just wouldn't be enough time in the day to let guests experience all the rides they wanted. So this almost certainly has to be part of this kind of system.

And there's lots of incentive for Disney to figure out if this works at WDW. Like I said before, people not in line can spend money. And Disney can charge people more to wait in shorter lines. Or could charge people less if they don't want to ride the major attractions. Requiring people to produce their admission ticket at attraction entrances open up many new types of tickets for Disney to sell.

And to solve the class-envy problem, here's how the new FastPass kiosk will work: Above the machines, there will be a standby wait time and a FastPass return time. The FastPass kiosk will have a touch screen. When a typical gusts puts their ticket in, the touch screen will give two options: standby group B5, 40 minutes form now, or FastPass return window 2:25-3:25.

But when a guest who has paid for special access inserts his/her ark ticket, s/he'll get 3 or 4 options....the ones above, but also a ride-in-10-minutes-in-group-A6, or FastPass return at 1:30-2:00.

And unless a busybody were looking over someone's shoulder, you wouldn't be able to tell who paid to get shorter lines, and who didn't to be in the standard ones.

[BMan62]

The original story explains that ...

I understood that, Ian, but I believe that original FastPass statement was that the return time was inviolate as well.....Now, it is a "guideline" - return ANY time after the beginning of the window....

This is just a concern I have.....

[Ian]

And there's lots of incentive for Disney to figure out if this works at WDW. Like I said before, people not in line can spend money. And Disney can charge people more to wait in shorter lines. Or could charge people less if they don't want to ride the major attractions. Requiring people to produce their admission ticket at attraction entrances open up many new types of tickets for Disney to sell.I totally agree with you here. I definitely think this is the precursor to a big shift in the way Disney handles queing. The only thing that puzzles me is that I had always heard that Fastpass never ended up resulting in the big uptick in merch and food sales they were expecting.

Maybe they're trying this out to see if they can get the bump they're looking for? Thing is ... I think they're looking in the wrong place. Merch sales are off because the merch isn't what it used to be, if you ask me.


I understood that, Ian, but I believe that original FastPass statement was that the return time was inviolate as well.....Now, it is a "guideline" - return ANY time after the beginning of the window....

This is just a concern I have.....Oh oh oh ... yeah that is actually a very good point. You're right. How quickly will they bail on that five minute window once people start complaining?

[MOJoe]

After doing a little research, i may have been too quick to judge. This may end up being a good thing to improve the guest experience.

It appears that this new queue works in similair fashion to boarding an airplane. You are called in groups, i.e. A 1, A 2 and so on. This is to enhance (eliminate?) the Standby line. So instead of standing 60 - 120 minutes in a very uninspired queue, guests can see by looking at various monitors placed around the courtyard how long before their group will be called. There are games and other entertainment provided to pass the time, as well as venues to buy merchandise to be sure.

If this is the line of the future, Disney may have a winner. People hate standing in long, long lines. Doing anything to eliminate that, both makes the guest more satisfied, and frees them up for the marketing guys.

This may just work. :mickey:

[BrerGnat]

Thing is ... I think they're looking in the wrong place. Merch sales are off because the merch isn't what it used to be, if you ask me.



AMEN!

[GrumpyFan]

I'm going to make a prediction here. Yesterday, they announced that Jim MacPhee is going to head up something called "Next Generation Experience", which is kind of a vague term or project name for the future park experience. It's been rumored that they will utilize RFID to help implement some of their plans.

I predict that part of Disney's "Next Gen" plans will be to implement queueless waiting on all of the major attractions across the resort. Then they will provide a means by which a guest can schedule there activities in the parks ahead of time. So, you might log on to the scheduler from your hotel the night before or morning your visiting Magic Kingdom and select the attractions you want to go on for the day. The system would then generate all of your group codes/time slots and you would get a list. Perhaps the RFID tie-in will come with an alert/notification system for upcoming times.

[DonaldsBFF]

The only hope that I have for this new system is that they do something to give priority to guests that are staying at the resorts. Even if that means Vacation Club members are highest priority down to value resort guests. That was the only complaint that I had with Fastpass. Most days we couldn't even get a fastpass for the major attractions if we weren't there before 9 a.m.

[GrumpyFan]

The only hope that I have for this new system is that they do something to give priority to guests that are staying at the resorts. Even if that means Vacation Club members are highest priority down to value resort guests. That was the only complaint that I had with Fastpass. Most days we couldn't even get a fastpass for the major attractions if we weren't there before 9 a.m.

Just speculating, but I would expect the system would not necessarily give higher priority to resort guests. However, I could imagine them giving more allocations to the resort guests in a tiered structure. For example, a guest staying at a Deluxe or DVC might be able to schedule 8-10 attractions for a given day, versus a moderate guest, maybe only 6, and a value guest 4 or 5. Those are just my own guess-work, but it's based on patent applications they've filed in the past.

[GrumpyFan]

In theory, queueless waiting should be a win-win scenario for Disney, at least on paper. No longer will 70-90% of their guests be spending 80% or more of their time while in the parks standing in line. Depending on how many rides get upgraded to use this new queueing concept, guests’ wait time in line could be throretically reduced to under 50%. I’m not a fortune teller, but I’m guessing that Disney is hoping that something like this will encourage guests to shop, eat and spend more money. However, I have to wonder if it will. When we visit WDW, we usually go with a set amount that we intend to spend on food and merchandise. We plan carefully how much we’ll spend on food, and the the rest is for souvenirs. Sure we occasionally spend more than what we planned, but it’s not a significant amount, maybe 10-20%. So, I have to wonder how many other guests are like us and plan their spending similarly. If they are, then Disney won’t see a huge jump in spending from queueless waiting, and it may even cause them to lose money after all is said and done to add this technology and then additional technology and features to entertain guests waiting for their number/slot.

So, what do you think? Will queueless waiting encourage you to spend more, eat more while not waiting to ride, or will you just try and find something else to fill the time?

[fielin]

Well, even if the 'less time queueing, more time spending' scenario doesn't work for Disney, I guess less time queueing means :

- More guest satisfaction (hence a possibility of guests coming back more frequently)

- Resort guests will not find the need to spend a whole day in one park, meaning more guests will be able to come inside the park each day especially around christmas, or whenever the park reaches its limits.

[MOJoe]

I'm thinking a higher level of guest satisfaction is what Disney is after.

When i talk to Disney haters, the two reasons for not visiting WDW that always come up are...
1. The time spent standing in long lines.
2. How expensive things are.

Doing anything to free people from standing in 60+ minute lines will provide guests with an overall better experience. Better experiences make for happy customers. And happy customers become repeat customers.
Though the vast majority of people cannot afford to open up their wallet every hour, the opportunity will be there. And happy guests are much more likely to spend than unhappy ones. But in my opinion, the added sales are likely to be only minimal. For the sole reason that, no matter how much merchandise is pushed at them, most people are on a budget.

Merchandise sales are crucial to Disney. But if customer satisfaction and customer loyalty can be increased, the merchandise sales will follow.:mickey:

[joelkfla]

The main problem I see is ride downtime. When a ride goes down, do the people scheduled during that downtime lose their chance, or does everyone get pushed back? And if the downtime is close to park closing time, who gets to ride and who loses out?

I think that is the reason why the FP end-times were relaxed. Initially, I believe it only applied to guests holding FP's during a downtime. But it was eventualy expanded to everyone because it was too much hassle to track who was actually impacted by the downtime. (That's just my opinion, not inside info.)

[MidnTPK]

The main problem I see is ride downtime. When a ride goes down, do the people scheduled during that downtime lose their chance, or does everyone get pushed back? And if the downtime is close to park closing time, who gets to ride and who loses out?

I think that is the reason why the FP end-times were relaxed. Initially, I believe it only applied to guests holding FP's during a downtime. But it was eventualy expanded to everyone because it was too much hassle to track who was actually impacted by the downtime. (That's just my opinion, not inside info.)
Interactive FastPass dispensers would solve this problem. If Disney kept the info in the FastPass system up to date, the dispenser would know you weren't able to ride in your given time. The touch screen would give you replacement ride times, and you could choose which window you wanted.

Remember, under this system a guest will have to produce his/her admission ticket to get into line.

But for this to work, Disney would have to start enforcing the return times. I'm sure they decided not to enforce because the number of people that return outside of their window is so statistically insignificant hat it had no meaningful impact on ride operations and line size.

[GrumpyFan]

It appears that they didn't have passes with times on them for the testing. They used a group code that was made up of a letter and a number, like A1, B2, C3, etc. This allows them to have a dynamic return time that could change if needed. For example, if you had group code D3 and they estimated 45 minutes as your wait/return time, but then the ride broke down for a few hours, they could simply page/alert/text you when the ride was running again and your group was about to be called. This allows them to just pick back up where they left off in the queueing by recalling the groups in the order they were handed out.

[Aurora]

Geez, I don't know if I'm just getting old or what, but I really don't want to have to go back to school to try to figure out any algorithms of waiting to see a theme park attraction. And if I have to mill around to wait to see or hear my "group number," that's just going to be more stressful for me.

I hate to sound like an old fogey, but waiting in line IS interactive for me. I get to talk to my kids, my husband, other people around me in line. I really hope that the "interaction" they're talking about isn't yet another excuse to look at a computer screen.

[EPCOT84]

This really sounds like Southwest's boarding system. When SWA switched to boarding group queues and you are told not to get in line til your group is ready to queue, it was crazy at first and I thought 'oh no folks will be even more confused' but it seems to be working. I can mull around airport stores or enjoy that latte a bit longer. Sure some get confused and each of us in line are forced to police each other (what number do you have). Ugh. Efficient - yes. Pleasant - not so much.

If the concept works, then more of us will not be able to amble through the queue area to enjoy all the work that went into it. (not so good)

Folks will be hanging around in a queue-less mess blocking up areas. Perhaps they need to be in a roped area like cattle...

I also think the more complicated it gets, yes it will stress out a large population of guests. If guests can't quite 'get' FP as one poster wrote, then this new system will be even more perplexing to some.

In the end, it makes what should be relaxing day at a park instead about as enjoyable as being at the airport.

And to the poster who said we should go back to the old ticket system and keep the gates open to any.. not a good idea. It allows riff-raff and undesirable elements in to wander freely. Admission charges help to ensure the population that is there is truly those that want to enjoy the parks.

Those are my :twocents::mickey:

[Goofy Texan]

I like this idea. Getting to "sit" in line beats "standing" in line any day! Disney Ques are long and meandering. Think about how much space that will open up if they are not needed - in essence making room for those waiting for their group to be called.

I see it as simpler than fast pass. You go up to a kiosk, swipe your passes, get a numbered ticket, then go find a bench to sit on or do something else nearby. Instead of standing in a line near the same people for 40 minutes, I can people watch, rest my feet, get a drink, play a game, etc. All things much more interesting than STANDING in a slow-moving line.

From what I can tell this isn't like fast pass. The time given is short 20 to 90 minutes away. It is an improvement for those who don't want to get a fast pass and come back later.

Also, if this ends up replacing fast pass, it could be a money saver for Disney. I can see where a system like this could require fewer castmembers to run.

My 2 cents.

[IloveDisney71]

Geez, I don't know if I'm just getting old or what, but I really don't want to have to go back to school to try to figure out any algorithms of waiting to see a theme park attraction. And if I have to mill around to wait to see or hear my "group number," that's just going to be more stressful for me.

I hate to sound like an old fogey, but waiting in line IS interactive for me. I get to talk to my kids, my husband, other people around me in line. I really hope that the "interaction" they're talking about isn't yet another excuse to look at a computer screen.

I was soooo happy to read your post. I was thinking exactly the same thing. I don't want to have to pre-plan what rides I want to ride and when I want to ride them. Planning dining reservations and sticking to them is enough work for me. I also don't mind standing in line with my friends and family. It gives us a chance to talk and goof around. I think the "now" mentality that has taken over our society has taken away from the patience people used to have for things. That's just my opinion. I know some people love to plan everything. I enjoy planning some things but I'd hate to have to plan all of my rides. :(

[Victor Kelly]

I was soooo happy to read your post. I was thinking exactly the same thing. I don't want to have to pre-plan what rides I want to ride and when I want to ride them. Planning dining reservations and sticking to them is enough work for me. I also don't mind standing in line with my friends and family. It gives us a chance to talk and goof around. I think the "now" mentality that has taken over our society has taken away from the patience people used to have for things. That's just my opinion. I know some people love to plan everything. I enjoy planning some things but I'd hate to have to plan all of my rides. :(

I could not agree more with the above posters. I like being able to walk up to the attraction I want to ride, get in line and wait. All this "I want it now" nonsense is for the birds. While we are at it why not just let the people with tons of money into the park (aka park resort guests) so they can do everything at a whim. While those of us counting pennies to go to Disney get treated as second class citizens who have to wait for the priviledged to do their thing. I hate to say this but people have too much money, not enough common sense and certainly less than ideal social skills.

Fastpass is a pain in the rump. I have seen rides like Peter Pan go from a 45 to 60 minute wait to almost 2 hours for the stand by line, while FP people just keep pouring in. Hence I dont get to ride, because the FP people keep marching right on in.

As it stands right now, my fiancee and I enjoy Hershey park a lot more than Disney. I know I am going to get burned at the stake for saying that. But, we are annual pass holders for Hershey, we can go 5 or more times a season, we pack our own lunches, the place is a 90 minute ride for us each way (no big deal). We can go because it is cheaper to go there than Disney. Sure it is not themed, sure it is an older park, but Hershey gives us more bang for the buck and at this point does not create have and have not classes.

It is a pity Disney is heading down this road. But to quasay-quote from Jurassic Park "and people will pay $1000 a day or $10,000 a day and people will pay it". Price yourself too high, and you will lose most of your business and only be able to cater to the wealthy. But I guess that would just be the american way.