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As promised ... the new thread for baseball's off season discussions.
First order of business ... Phils decline Pedro Feliz's option. Kinda surprising to me, but I actually think he'll be back. I suspect they thought they could get him for less than the $5.5 mil his option called for.
I also think they're going to test the waters and see what else is out there.
Here's an unofficial list of free agents.
Source: Cot's Baseball Contracts
Potential Free Agents for 2010
The following players have contracts expiring or should have the six years of service necessary to become free agents after the 2009 season.
* - current contract includes 2010 option
(A) - projected as Type A free agent
(B) - projected as Type B free agent
Player Club
First Basemen
Hank Blalock TEX
Russell Branyan SEA
Carlos Delgado NYM (B)
Nomar Garciaparra OAK
Jason Giambi COL
Ross Gload * FLA
Aubrey Huff DET (B)
Nick Johnson WAS (B)
Adam LaRoche ATL (B)
Kevin Millar TOR
Robb Quinlan LAA
Matt Stairs PHI
Mike Sweeney SEA
Jim Thome LAD
Chad Tracy ARZ
Second Basemen
Marlon Anderson NYM
Ron Belliard LAD (B)
Jamey Carroll CLE
David Eckstein SD
Orlando Hudson LAD (A)
Akinori Iwamura * TB
Omar Infante ATL
Felipe Lopez MIL (A)
Mark Loretta LAD
Placido Polanco DET (A)
Freddy Sanchez * SF (A)
Shortstops
Orlando Cabrera MIN (A)
Juan Castro LAD
Alex Cora NYM
Bobby Crosby OAK
Adam Everett DET
Alex Gonzalez * BOS
Khalil Greene STL
Ramon Martinez LAD
John McDonald TOR
Marco Scutaro TOR (A)
Miguel Tejada HOU
Jack Wilson * SEA
Third Basemen
Adrian Beltre SEA (B)
Geoff Blum HOU
Craig Counsell MIL
Joe Crede MIN
Mark DeRosa STL (B)
Pedro Feliz * PHI
Chone Figgins LAA (B)
Troy Glaus STL (A)
Jerry Hairston NYY (B)
Mike Lamb MIL
Melvin Mora * BAL (B)
Juan Uribe SF
Catchers
Rod Barajas TOR (B)
Josh Bard BOS
Michael Barrett TOR
Henry Blanco SD
Ramon Castro CWS
Ramon Hernandez * CIN (B)
Jason Kendall MIL (B)
Jason LaRue STL
Victor Martinez * BOS (A)
Chad Moeller BAL
Benji Molina SF (A)
Jose Molina NYY
Miguel Olivo * KC (B)
Mike Redmond MIN
Ivan Rodriguez TEX (B)
Brian Schneider NYM
Yorvit Torrealba * COL (B)
Jason Varitek * BOS (B)
Gregg Zaun * TB
Outfielders
Bobby Abreu LAA (A)
Garret Anderson ATL (B)
Rick Ankiel STL
Rocco Baldelli BOS
Jason Bay BOS (A)
Marlon Byrd TEX (B)
Mike Cameron MIL (B)
Frank Catalanotto TEX
Endy Chavez SEA
Coco Crisp * KC
Carl Crawford * TB (B)
Johnny Damon NYY (A)
David Dellucci CLE
Jermaine Dye * CWS (A)
Darin Erstad HOU
Cliff Floyd SD
Ryan Freel TEX
Brian Giles SD (B)
Ken Griffey Jr. SEA
Vladimir Guerrero LAA (A)
Eric Hinske NYY
Matt Holliday STL (A)
Geoff Jenkins * PHI
Reed Johnson CHC
Andruw Jones TEX
Gabe Kapler TB
Austin Kearns * WAS
Mark Kotsay CHW
Hideki Matusi NYY (B)
Jason Michaels CLE
Xavier Nady NYY (B)
Magglio Ordonez * DET
Scott Podsednik CHW
Manny Ramirez * LAD (A)
Dave Roberts SF
Gary Sheffield NYM
Fernando Tatis NYM (B)
Randy Winn SF (B)
Starting Pitchers
Brandon Backe HOU
Josh Beckett * BOS
Erik Bedard SEA (B)
Daniel Cabrera ARZ
Bartolo Colon CWS
Jose Contreras COL
Doug Davis ARZ (B)
Justin Duchscherer OAK (B)
Adam Eaton COL
Kelvim Escobar LAA
Jon Garland * LAD (B)
Tom Glavine ATL
Mike Hampton HOU
Rich Harden CHC (B)
Livan Hernandez WAS
Tim Hudson * ATL
Randy Johnson SF (B)
John Lackey LAA (A)
Cliff Lee * PHI (A)
Braden Looper * MIL (B)
Jason Marquis COL (B)
Kevin Millwood * TEX
Brett Myers PHI
Vicente Padilla * LAD (B)
Carl Pavano MIN (B)
Brad Penny SF
Odalis Perez WAS
Andy Pettitte NYY (B)
Joel Pineiro STL (B)
Sidney Ponson KC
Jason Schmidt LAD
John Smoltz STL
Tim Wakefield * BOS (B)
Jarrod Washburn DET
Brandon Webb * ARZ (B)
Todd Wellemeyer STL
Randy Wolf (A)
Relief Pitchers
Luis Ayala FLA
Danys Baez BAL
Miguel Batista SEA
Joe Beimel COL (B)
Joaquin Benoit TEX
Rafael Betancourt * COL (A)
Chad Bradford BAL
Doug Brocail * HOU (B)
Kiko Calero FLA (B)
Elmer Dessens NYM
Brendan Donnelly FLA
Octavio Dotel CWS (A)
Alan Embree COL
Scott Eyre PHI (B)
Josh Fogg COL
Chad Fox CHC
Ryan Franklin * STL
Gary Glover WAS
Mike Gonzalez ATL (A)
Tom Gordon ARZ
John Grabow CHC (A)
Kevin Gregg CHC (A)
Eddie Guardado TEX
LaTroy Hawkins HOU (A)
Mark Hendrickson BAL
Matt Herges COL
Trevor Hoffman MIL (A)
Bobby Howry SF (B)
Jason Isringhausen TB
Masahide Kobayashi * CLE
Brandon Lyon DET (B)
Ron Mahay MIN
Gary Majewski WAS
Guillermo Mota LAD (B)
Will Ohman * LAD (B)
Darren Oliver LAA (A)
Chan Ho Park PHI (B)
Troy Percival TB
J.J. Putz * NYM
Juan Rincon COL
Fernando Rodney DET (B)
Duaner Sanchez NYM
Scott Schoeneweis ARZ
Brian Shouse * TB (B)
Rafael Soriano ATL (A)
Russ Springer TB (B)
Brett Tomko OAK
Jose Valverde HOU (A)
Claudio Vargas MIL
Ron Villone WAS
Luis Vizcaino * COL
Billy Wagner BOS (A)
Jamie Walker BAL
Jeff Weaver LAD
Kip Wells CIN
Jamey Wright KC
Some good third basemen names on that list ... I'd take Figgins or DeRosa in a heartbeat!
Hammer
11-09-2009, 11:15 AM
Some good third basemen names on that list ... I'd take Figgins or DeRosa in a heartbeat!
Only thing that makes me hesitate with either player is they will be a defensive downgrade from Feliz. With as many lefties we have, good defense is essential.
Oh, and Moyer is going to be back. I had forgotten it was a 2 year contract, so we were saddled with his salary anyway.
I'm crossing my fingers that Moyer will retire. I love the guy, but there's no way a team that has World Series aspirations can put him out there as a starter.
Long relief maybe?
Hammer
11-09-2009, 04:12 PM
Ian, if he retires, we would still have to pay his salary. Not a real fan of something for nothing and you know the Phillies management aren't fans of that.
My thought, he will be the 5th starter/ long relief, depending on the time of year. He is good for 10-12 wins and you can do far worse than that with some of the garbage that will be out there. Playoffs, he is a lefty specialist.
This all depends on his rehab from the surgery (which is the same surgery Ibanez had).
Pagan
11-09-2009, 04:33 PM
Nice to see the Yankees' shopping list posted. :razz:
Moyer ain't retireing with 6.5M coming.
The Mets desperately need a solid #2 starter and big outfield bat. Lackey and Holliday would be nice, but both are not realistic. There are a few decent starting pithchers on that list, but after Lackey, no sure fire great ones.
I'm still hoping they can reach a deal with Moyer to buy him out and get him to retire. Like I said, maybe a coaching job offer would help.
I honestly can't stomach seeing him in our rotation again. he was awful this year.
PirateLover
11-09-2009, 06:42 PM
Unfortunately Moyer is one of those guys who will most likely have to be removed kicking and screaming. His comments this year when he was moved to the bullpen were not professional. I think he shows up for camp, and makes a run for that 5th starter spot. He may get it, who knows. THere's a lot of chatter about Kyle Drabek being ready for the big leagues at some point this season.
As for 3rd, I think it's gonna be DeRosa. I think Figgins will stay with the Angels. As Ian mentioned, there is the option of bringing Feliz back for cheaper, but I don't know that I see that happening.
I think Lackey will get scooped by the Yankees.
sportsguy2315
11-10-2009, 01:04 AM
I had quite a good laugh with the Minneapolis Star Tribune tonight when I saw their "Twins Off-Season" checklist. Their #2 item: "Trade for Roy Holliday or Justin Verlander". As much as I would love to see Roy wear a Twins jersey next season, I don't think it's going to get done.
Even with the new stadium opening up in April, the Twins have been VERY thrifty (For example, letting Torii Hunter and Johan Santana go over the past couple years). As great of a player Roy is, I don't think Twins management would even flinch at him given his contract and the one year deal (He made $14.25 million last season and his contract expires at the end of the season, and I doubt the Twins would even think about resigning him).
Toronto wants one thing, and one thing only out of the Halliday deal: Prospects, and good ones (For a reference point, J.A. Happ was the big name being tossed around on Toronto's wish list when they were talking with the Phillies). This is another thing the Twins are very stubborn about is having a good solid farm system. While I don't blame them here, I do believe this is a situation where you roll the dice and see what happens with Halliday.
Additionally, Richard Griffin of the Toronto Star wrote in his column on Monday what I'll call the "Roy Test", 5 criteria that Roy might waive his no trade clause for, and how the Twins match up with it:
* See themselves as contenders. (Check)
* Showed previous interest in Halladay. (No)
* Have the prospects to put together a package. (Check, but would the Twins part with them?)
* Have the necessary financial resources to strike a long-term deal while they have him. (Big question mark here, but if the Twins are serious they will find the cash)
* Are no longer upset with the Jays' GM since he's new, young and enthusiastic. (Check; in Intercot-friendly terms, JP Richardi sent the Jays back to the Stone Age during his tenure. Anthopolous is excited to lead the Jays, something JP never really showed)
Until something else happens otherwise, I still call the favorite in the Roy Race the Dodgers. They've been to the NLCS two years in a row, they were deep in talks early on, they have the young nucleus to give a part to the Jays (See Clayton Kershaw and Matt Kemp), they have the money and would certainly spend to keep Roy in Dodger Blue, and Anthopolous has yet to tick anyone off.
Until something else happens otherwise, I still call the favorite in the Roy Race the Dodgers. They've been to the NLCS two years in a row, they were deep in talks early on, they have the young nucleus to give a part to the Jays (See Clayton Kershaw and Matt Kemp), they have the money and would certainly spend to keep Roy in Dodger Blue, and Anthopolous has yet to tick anyone off.We'll see ... I'm not as certain as you are that the Dodgers are going to part with Kershaw and Kemp for a 32 year old pitcher. That's what held them back last season from dealing for him.
Honestly, I kinda think he's going to stay in Toronto for the 2010 season and then let teams get into a bidding war for his services when he becomes a free agent.
Well, I just heard Holliday is looking for 18M per year. Sorry, not worth it. I'd give Vladimere a shot for a year or two, no more.
barnaby
11-10-2009, 06:25 PM
Some good third basemen names on that list ... I'd take Figgins or DeRosa in a heartbeat!
Figgins would be a good fit for the Phillies. Solid defensively and he would give the Phils a true leadoff hitter (Rollins and Victorino are hackers).
I am looking for the Red Sox to trade for a big bat. They can't sit pat with the Yanks lineup and Bay and Holliday aren't the answer.
indytraveler
11-11-2009, 12:03 PM
If Holliday is looking for $18m then that leaves Yankees, Mets, Red Sox. Since Holliday is asking for $18m the Yankees will counter offer $25m. This will be interesting since he didn't do very good in Oakland last year. He hits better in the NL. Mets could probably offer $15m and get him if he doesn't want to jump leagues again.
I also get this feeling Lackey will end up in pinstripes too for about $20m / year.
Unfortunately I didn't see any good closers that the Cubs will end up with. Or any players for that matter. Maybe DeRosa can come back and play 2nd for the Cubs and 3rd when Ramirez gets hurt. Wait 'til 2011! (wait they have to play at least 1 game in 2010 before we bring that out)
Greenlawler
11-11-2009, 11:38 PM
Figgins would be a good fit for the Phillies. Solid defensively and he would give the Phils a true leadoff hitter (Rollins and Victorino are hackers).
I am looking for the Red Sox to trade for a big bat. They can't sit pat with the Yanks lineup and Bay and Holliday aren't the answer.
Agreed on both counts although I don't picture Figgens getting out of LA without a huge fight.
Boston will make a trade becuase there is not a big bat to be had, better than what they have. I do see them making a push for Holliday. He may not be the answer but the Sox may push for him simply to drive the price up on the competition.
Greenlawler
11-14-2009, 01:54 AM
Anyone see the Granderson to the Yankees rumor? Looks like Johnny D is on his way out.
Well, good thing we had a mild November 'cause this stove has been off. But the winter meetings start today and we can expect to start seeing something. Let's go already!
Hammer
12-07-2009, 04:12 PM
Been a bit busy with work to respond, but it seems that things will hopefully get going with the Winter Meetings this week.
Regarding my Phillies, I'm fine with Polanco at 3rd. As we signed him for about the same money as Feliz was receiving, it makes me think the Phillies were more concerned with Feliz's back problems then they let on in the press. Also fine with Schneider as the backup catcher and Castro as a bench guy. Now, let's get another starter and some bullpen help...
barnaby
12-07-2009, 09:12 PM
Been a bit busy with work to respond, but it seems that things will hopefully get going with the Winter Meetings this week.
Regarding my Phillies, I'm fine with Polanco at 3rd. As we signed him for about the same money as Feliz was receiving, it makes me think the Phillies were more concerned with Feliz's back problems then they let on in the press. Also fine with Schneider as the backup catcher and Castro as a bench guy. Now, let's get another starter and some bullpen help...
Also with Polanco, the Phillies get a legit 2 hole hitter.
Hammer
12-09-2009, 01:43 PM
Anyone see the Granderson to the Yankees rumor? Looks like Johnny D is on his way out.
And a what a 3 team deal it will be if all sides can agree and the league approves it. Every one of the teams involved get something of value which should improve each team. I'm a big fan of Edwin Jackson.
Other news from the Winter Meetings-
Randy Wolf signs a 3 year deal with the Brewers
Ivan Rodriguez signs with the Nationals
Andy Pettite re-signs with Yankees for another 1 year deal
In non-player related news, Peter Gammons signs on as an analyst for MLB network.
Andy Pettite re-signs with Yankees for another 1 year deal
I like this. It makes it less likely the Yankees will make a big push for Lackey or Halladay. Halladay to the Redsox might also be dead.
I like this. It makes it less likely the Yankees will make a big push for Lackey or Halladay. Halladay to the Redsox might also be dead.Rumors are the Yankees are still actively pursuing Halladay.
barnaby
12-09-2009, 08:14 PM
I like this. It makes it less likely the Yankees will make a big push for Lackey or Halladay. Halladay to the Redsox might also be dead.
I think this might be a transition year for the Red Sox. Even if they did give up the farm for Halladay, they still lack a big bat in the middle of the order. And Bay and Holliday are good bats, but not enough to compete with the MFYs.
Pure speculation on my part, but I think the Sox will make a few small moves this off-season like signing Scutaro and maybe getting one bigger move like Bay or Holiday but will not make any huge deals like getting Halladay or trading Lowell. After next season, some guys will be FAs like Lowell and Ortiz will only have one year left so he could be moved too. Then the Red Sox will get rid of some $$ on the books and make some big moves for 2011.
Found this interesting (and somewhat surprising):
The Angels and Phillies were each making a hard push for the Toronto ace. The Angels, who have lost Chone Figgins to the Mariners and apparently are losing out on free agent ace John Lackey, have stepped forward with an offer of shortstop Erick Aybar, lefthander Joe Saunders, and their top outfield prospect, Peter Bourjos. It is unclear what the Phillies' offer would be, but they have three highly coveted prospects in righthander Kyle Drabek and outfielders Dominic Brown and Michael Taylor.
New York Daily News (http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/2009/12/10/2009-12-10_untitled__halladay10s.html)
barnaby
12-11-2009, 12:40 PM
Since I was right on about the Sox not trading Lowell ;), lets see if I can be completely wrong again - I don't think Ortiz will be traded. :D
Tom Verducci claims the Phillies are working hard to land Halladay and that they're now even willing to part with Drabek if need be to land him.
In a fit of irony, in the same article he calls the Phillies "The Yankees of the National League"! :ack:
Greenlawler
12-12-2009, 02:03 AM
Pirates make hot stove move!
Bobby Crosby signs deal. :blush:
Brewers sign Wolf and Hawkins. I don' think this improves us too much but it helps.
In what I can only describe as an odd twist, it now seems the Phils are going to land Halladay. However, they're giving up Lee to do it?? :confused:
I don't see how this makes us better really ... I thought the goal was to have Lee and Halladay? At least for 2010 anyway!
Hammer
12-14-2009, 08:56 PM
In what I can only describe as an odd twist, it now seems the Phils are going to land Halladay. However, they're giving up Lee to do it?? :confused:
I don't see how this makes us better really ... I thought the goal was to have Lee and Halladay? At least for 2010 anyway!
Here is the reasoning I heard. Amaro has been trying to get Lee signed to an extension, but Lee is adamant to try free agency. Amaro isn't a fool; he knows that Lee is going to be more than likely too expensive next off season. Halladay lives in the Clearwater area and from Jayson Stark has said, was willing to give a "discount" (not really, but $20 million a year is less than $25 million) as he would not need to relocate (it seems he likes to live near to where the team he plays for trains). Amaro tried to mover Blanton to make salary room to have both Lee and Halladay this season, but no dice. So we at least end up with one ace rather than the real chance of nothing after this year.
Before you say "just spend more money", how can they make up the extra money they would need to spend without decreasing the profit margin? There isn't room to fit more people into the stadium, so the only way is to increase ticket and concession prices, which they did slightly this year. I don't want them to increase the prices so high that some of the current fan base is priced out. I like that those families who live around the stadium can still afford to go to a game or two a year. The same probably can't be said for those who live around Yankee Stadium.
Well yeah I mean I sort of understand the rationale for it now (although I don't agree with it necessarily) but there are other aspects I just don't get at all ... and I'm not the only one. Baseball people all over are scratching their heads at this one.
First off, rumors are they may have to move Drabek and Happ to get the deal done. If you're going to move Drabek and Happ now, why didn't you just do it during the season and land Halladay then?
Secondly, why not just let Lee play out the 2010 season and move on (and get draft pick compensation for him) and then just sign Halladay as a free agent? Why move all these players and prospects when you don't really have to?
I dunno ... I just don't see the logic behind this one. To me it really seems like Amaro has fallen in love with Halladay and he's become like his White Whale. I think he's giving up way too much to essentially save a couple million a year in salary.
One thing I will say, though, is that I do think Halladay is a better pitcher. He's got a much broader body of work to draw on.
Interesting take from Lee Jenkins ... a baseball guy with SI.com (who I've never heard of ;) ) ...
The Phillies are starting to operate like the Yanks and Sox, substituting great players for elite ones. As much as Lee did for them in the post-season -- 4-0 with a 1.56 ERA -- his career numbers are not as consistent as Halladay's. Besides, it should be easier for the Phillies to negotiate a contract extension with Halladay than Lee, considering Halladay has never pitched for a contender and lives near the Phillies spring-training site in Clearwater, Fla. This was the rare move that made both baseball sense and financial sense. By trading one Cy Young Award winner for another, the Phillies still lack depth in their rotation, but they can go righty-lefty at the top, with Halladay and Cole Hamels.I did forget the righty/lefty angle with Halladay. I think our lefty-dominated rotation hurt us in the playoffs last year, so being able to go righty/lefty at the top is a big plus.
Hammer
12-15-2009, 09:56 AM
This supports what I had heard that Halladay is negotiating a contract with the Phillies as part of this deal, which is what is different from trading for him in the middle of the season. They were not able to get that in the middle of the season, so Amaro took a chance he could convince Cliff Lee to sign an extension at the end of last season (which did not happen) and try to trade for Halladay this offseason. As I said, I had heard Amaro did try to keep both Lee and Halladay by trying to move Blanton's and his salary, but no dice.
Also, everything I am hearing is that it will be Drabek or Haap (probably Drabek), not both.
Hammer
12-15-2009, 09:58 AM
Oh, and to answer your question as to why not wait and sign Halladay as a free agent is simple. It would cost the Phillies more money to do that as they would have to get into a bidding war with the Yankees and Red Sox.
Also left out from what I originally heard is that the Phillies are apparently getting back some top prospects in the deal.
Honestly, I just need to see the whole final deal on paper before I can really decide what I think, but after digesting and getting some clarity it seems a lot better than it first appeared.
In truth, any deal that ends up with us having Halladay is a good deal. I do have to wonder, though ... if we trade Happ that means our starting rotating from last year has lost Lee, Martinez, Myers, and Happ and all we've added is Halladay. Seems like we're short on pitchers? Does this mean there's another move or two out there waiting to happen?
Who are our starters now? Obviously you've got Halladay, Hamels, and Blanton but after that? Happ if we don't trade him ... who's your fifth starter? Jamie? Man, I hope not. A team that's really serious about winning the World Series can't have Jamie Moyer in their starting rotation.
Hammer
12-15-2009, 11:23 AM
I think the 5th starter job is going to be a battle in spring training and yes, Moyer is going to get a chance to compete for that role if he is healthy, and that is a big if. Moyer should get the chance to try and win the job.
I don't mind if, out of respect, they give him the opportunity to compete, but in all honesty I see very little chance that at age 48 he's going to rebound from last year and pitch well enough to earn that 5th starter spot.
That being said there are maybe a couple other guys on this team who could fill that spot ... maybe a Kendrick or a Durbin. Of course, then you ding your already depleted bullpen.
Hammer
12-15-2009, 12:18 PM
Moyer is 47, not 48. No need to age him more.
Look a 5th starter is usually only good for about 10 wins on average, which while you do not want to admit it is what Moyer can give you. No, it is not always pretty, but it rarely is for a 5th starter. I am more concerned if he will be healthy enough to compete in spring training.
I see the Phillies inviting pitchers to spring training to compete for the 5th starter job, which is pretty common practice for a team to do. I see no problem with that.
Your confidence in Jamie is a lot greater than mine, but you are right ... I actually forgot his birthday is in November so he'll only be 47 for the entire 2010 season. I thought he was going to turn 48 before that.
I just right now see a team losing pitchers faster than we can replace them and that worries me since pitching was already an issue going into the off season.
I just read that they non-tendered Condrey, so our bullpen is even further depleted.
mitchsfan
12-15-2009, 02:16 PM
I am in love with this trade. If I wast married, I would marry this trade.
Your starting rotation is Halladay, Hamels, Blanton, Happ, and Whocares. As a 5th starter, you can throw junk out there and expect to win if you are the Phillies. A 5th starter can still give up 6-7 runs when your lineup consist of Rollins, Polanco, Utley, Howard, Werth, a healthy Ibanez, Victorino, and Ruiz.
The Phillies will win about 60 percent of their 5th starts guaranteed this year. Their lineup is that good to carry them this year.
The bench is set with...Gload, Dobbs, Francisco, Schneider, Castro.
Your pen consist of Lidge, Romero, Madson, Escalano, and you have spots for three more. Moyer? Kendrick? Martinez? Eyre? Park?
Here is the name that interest me: John Smoltz. The Phillies have talked to his agent. There is your 5th starter (and maybe he puts some pressure on Lidge) Then move Moyer to the pen as your mop up guy. There is no need to cater to Moyer. If he doesn't like it he can retire.
Lee wasn't signing here without looking at the market. If you understand that part, then this is a no brainer. Ruben has done an incredible job so far.
Think about it this way: The Phils were 1 braindead play (covering 3rd on Damons steal) away from a game 7 of the World Series. You trade away a good pitcher and get the best pitcher in baseball. This trade was awesome.
Hammer
12-15-2009, 02:42 PM
Geez, guys, no one is "catering" to Moyer. They are giving him his fair shot. Personally, I don't think they should give any more than that to Smoltz. Did you see how horribly he pitched last year? No way I think he should get any more of a shot at the 5th starter role than Moyer.
Christine you and I agree 100% on Smoltz. To me the interest in him reeks of last year's dalliance with Pedro.
So now that all the details are out there and it's basically confirmed that Happ is still in the fold, I feel a lot better.
Basically we dealt prospects to Toronto for Halladay and then turned around and dealt Lee to Seattle for their top prospects. Essentially we traded a Cliff Lee that we wouldn't be able to re-sign for a confirmed four years worth of Halladay.
Good move.
Here's my Omar Minaya impersonation...
:sleepin:
And here's the average Met fan's impersonation...
:bang:
Thanks to a little :nudge: from Christine...
Overall Jason Bay was a solid aquisition. They had to land a good hitting left fielder with power and the only real choices through free agency were him or Holliday. Bay is probably not worth 16.5M per for 4 years, but it's far better than the 18M per for 7 years Holliday is looking for. It's just still hard to get too excited because what they really need is a good starter.
Hammer
01-07-2010, 09:40 PM
Scar, one of my co-workers, who is a Mets fan thinks like you. He likes getting Bay as Holliday's asking price was crazy, but would rather they got someone to pitch behind Santana in the rotation first.
You know, I think Brett Myers is still out there or you could bring Pedro back ;) .
So Holliday got his $17M+ for 7 years. I wonder if St. Louis will pay Pujols for A-Rod money in 2 years. I hope the Mets will if St. Louis doesn't.
You know, I think Brett Myers is still out there or you could bring Pedro back ;) .Yea, and I hear Kevin Brown and Randy Johnson are available. :ack:
barnaby
01-08-2010, 12:17 PM
I am thankful for the Mets.
I would have upset if the Red Sox would have re-signed J-Bay for that much money.
barnaby
01-08-2010, 12:22 PM
Christine you and I agree 100% on Smoltz. To me the interest in him reeks of last year's dalliance with Pedro.
So now that all the details are out there and it's basically confirmed that Happ is still in the fold, I feel a lot better.
Basically we dealt prospects to Toronto for Halladay and then turned around and dealt Lee to Seattle for their top prospects. Essentially we traded a Cliff Lee that we wouldn't be able to re-sign for a confirmed four years worth of Halladay.
Good move.
Dealing Lee just shows the Phillies are cheap. They could have kept Lee for another year, so what if ythey can't sign him after that. Halladay at the top of the rotation with that lineup behind them would have been sick. They have the money to get guys to fill the void if they didn't sign Lee after this upcoming season.
Prospects are just that - prospective players who may be good. The Phillies have drafted well the last few years, they could have re-stocked the system through the draft and signed free agents to bridge the gap. They have the money.
Dealing Lee just shows the Phillies are cheap.They had the 7th highest payroll in major league baseball last year and will likely be higher than that in 2010.
I'm not sure I'd call them cheap.
barnaby
01-08-2010, 12:36 PM
They had the 7th highest payroll in major league baseball last year and will likely be higher than that in 2010.
I'm not sure I'd call them cheap.
Thats kinda my point though.
They have the money to pay Lee for a year, then trade for or sign a replacement for him if they couldn't re-sign for 2011 and beyond.
The whole thing about them trading for prospects to re-stock I thought was a smoke-screen for ownership not wanting to have to deal with being ripped by the fans for keeping Lee for 2010 and then not bucking up to re-sign after this upcoming season.
I think it was just as simple as this ... this team has a budget and they need to stay within it. They aren't the Yankees or the Sox. They won't just spend willy nilly.
They were in a position where yeah ... they could have kept both Lee and Halladay. But they didn't feel like their starting rotation was so lacking that they had to invest that kind of money there. I mean Halladay, Hamels, Happ, Blanton, and Pitcher X is not a bad rotation at all. It matches up well with just about anyone.
On the other hand, their bullpen is a train wreck and they really needed to spend that $9 million there.
I think it was just a matter of priorities.
Hammer
01-08-2010, 01:48 PM
I would be easy to say the Phillies were being cheap (though I agree with Ian that when you have a top 10 payroll you aren't really being cheap). The Phillies want to maintain the profit levels they are currently seeing since opening the new ballpark. The problem is you really are running out of ways to increase revenue besides substantially raising ticket and concession prices. Yes, my Sunday ticket plan price went up, but it was only $2 per seat per game, which is manageable. They raise prices too much; they are going to price themselves out for many of the fans. As I like to say, the people who live around Citizens Bank Park (South Philadelphia) can still afford to go to a game. Not sure you can say the same about the people who live around Yankee Stadium. Phillies work with a budget and they knew they needed to replenish the bullpen.
I think Lee's agent is partially to blame. The Phillies did make a contract offer and he did not get back to the Phillies with a counter offer until almost 1 week later, after Halladay was already in the picture. This is the same guy who is Ryan Howard's agent so it isn't like he doesn't know Ruben's telephone number.
Phils sign Blanton to a three year, $24 million deal.
Good move. The Mets paid $36M for three years to a worse pitcher last year.
Have they canceled the season yet?
Phils sign Victorino to 3 year $22 million contract.
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