The New Space Mountain [Archive]

Lakin

11-01-2009, 07:43 PM

From wikipedia:

Space Mountain closed on April 19, 2009 for a lengthy renovation project.[14][15] It will be the first extensive renovation since a previous closure in September 1999,[15] and is estimated to cost USD $12.3 million.[16] A major component of the renovation is the installation of a new track for the roller coasters, although the current layout will be left unchanged.[15] Other renovations include an upgraded queue area, including some new interactive elements,[16] and a new ceiling for the dome's shell.[15] Disney officials did not indicate if this was the full extent of the project or if other changes were in store, but a spokeswoman for the park stated, "We're retaining many of the classic elements that made Space Mountain a rite of passage at the Magic Kingdom that's been enjoyed by generations."[15] Space Mountain is scheduled to reopen on November 21, 2009.[17]

DisneyFanaticDargon

11-02-2009, 12:38 AM

The entire track was originally supposed to be replaced in order to support the weight of the new trains that were equipped with audio systems.

When the budget got slashed and the refurb time cut short, however, they kept the same trains and only replaced the parts of the track that absolutely needed to be replaced.

Everything else in that is fairly accurate though.

lockedoutlogic

11-02-2009, 07:17 AM

Scar

11-02-2009, 07:35 AM

From wikipedia:

... and a new ceiling for the dome's shell.I just rode the TTA last week and you could clearly see the ceiling over the barriers. I don't know what the old ceiling looked like, but this one certainly does not look "new".

DisneyFanaticDargon

11-02-2009, 08:48 AM

Basically...nothing
while the rides at Disneyland can be closed and completely rethought - those at WDW have to be operational for the sacred christmas holiday

The reason? Because not having one major attraction open for one peak attendance period might impact merchandise sales slightly...which is unacceptable given how much money that WDW dumps into TWDC's operating coffers....

This one really stunk....why bother at all:mickey:?

DLR can't get away with nearly as much without getting complaints from guests. You have to keep in mind that DLR is very much a local park and a large percentage of guests are APs who visit multiple times a year. Many of them have done so for a good chunk of their lives. If something is looking out of shape, maintenance is sub-par, or there is something rumored to get a major overhaul, you can bet DLR will be hearing about it.

This is why the management period of Cynthia Harris and Paul Pressler is looked at with such disdain: they focused on merchandising and the park showed visible signs of neglect because of it. These things are easy to spot if you visit a lot.

However, at WDW, many guests are not repeat visitors. Some are first timers, many of whom might never be back. They simply don't know any better, which is why Phil Harris and TDO know they can get away with stuff like this. The level of complaints they would get from repeats (who put most of the money in those coffers btw) about the ride being closed would be minuscule by comparison to those first timers who have never experienced it before and would just be peeved that it was closed on their visit. They also know that for the repeats that we'll likely keep coming back despite subpar refurbishments, because to them in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't really matter. Ignore the fact that there are many individuals, such as myself, who have been to both DLR and WDW multiple times, and know the potential for attractions WDW has, but that they refuse to implement.

I'm not defending WDW by a long road, however I do think they need to be held to the same standard regarding refurbishment and upkeep quality that Disneyland is.

Buttercup

11-02-2009, 10:11 AM

That is disappointing, to say the least. I thought the WDW version would get at least a FEW of the additions that Disneyland has.
Well let's just hope their idea of an interactive queue is more than those TV's they once had in the lineups, with the ridiculous "space news" and repetitive Fed Ex commercials. Man, they were terrible...

Ian

11-02-2009, 10:38 AM

WDW really missed an opportunity here. I almost don't even understand why they bothered, since the changes will probably be so minor no one is going to notice anyway.

lockedoutlogic

11-02-2009, 10:50 AM

WDW really missed an opportunity here. I almost don't even understand why they bothered, since the changes will probably be so minor no one is going to notice anyway.

simply keep it in service....
....to have a cart selling plushes outside of the exit...

That's the goal....you and I know and have become too familiar with how it looks

Polynesian Dweller

11-02-2009, 11:26 AM

I just rode the TTA last week and you could clearly see the ceiling over the barriers. I don't know what the old ceiling looked like, but this one certainly does not look "new".

Yeah, it looked stripped back to the base roofing. To me, it looked like a construction phase and shouldn't be looked at as a finished product yet.

I think it's a bit premature for all the negativity in this thread until we all see the actual finished product. If it's still a disappointment there will be plenty of time to comment then. But right now none of us truly know exactly what it will be.

Stu29573

11-02-2009, 11:45 AM

I think it's a bit premature for all the negativity in this thread until we all see the actual finished product. If it's still a disappointment there will be plenty of time to comment then. But right now none of us truly know exactly what it will be.

I agree. Although we all want to know exactly what will be and won't be included in the refreb, unless we're working on the project we won't know until the opening. All griping right now is speculation....no matter how good your "sources" are.

lockedoutlogic

11-02-2009, 11:49 AM

Yeah, it looked stripped back to the base roofing. To me, it looked like a construction phase and shouldn't be looked at as a finished product yet.

I think it's a bit premature for all the negativity in this thread until we all see the actual finished product. If it's still a disappointment there will be plenty of time to comment then. But right now none of us truly know exactly what it will be.

unfortunately....you don't have to be nostradamus here....

if the budget and timetable are slashed and squeezed....then nothing will come of it...

I have always liked space mountain...that won't change....but to not put in the extras that DL got 10 years ago....seems like pure cheapskatery.....

And i know that WDW has alot of first time visitors that they don't want to "disappoint"...but it also has over 50% repeats at all times (fact)...and it is an amusement enterprise....which involves rehabs around the globe...

This is about keeping one more frontline ride operational for five years without serious re-investment....and the timetable is about having one more thing to stand in line for during the holiday season while they pack the park's every square inch to the gills.....

I give credit where it is due...but they do not derserve it on this one....this is extended routine maintenance....and they appear to never to willing to "find the money" (which is truly laughable ) to bring the original Space up to par with its american sister...which is to say...slightly closer to the great one in France

cfoshe

11-02-2009, 12:54 PM

unfortunately....you don't have to be nostradamus here....

if the budget and timetable are slashed and squeezed....then nothing will come of it...

I have always liked space mountain...that won't change....but to not put in the extras that DL got 10 years ago....seems like pure cheapskatery.....

And i know that WDW has alot of first time visitors that they don't want to "disappoint"...but it also has over 50% repeats at all times (fact)...and it is an amusement enterprise....which involves rehabs around the globe...

This is about keeping one more frontline ride operational for five years without serious re-investment....and the timetable is about having one more thing to stand in line for during the holiday season while they pack the park's every square inch to the gills.....

I give credit where it is due...but they do not derserve it on this one....this is extended routine maintenance....and they appear to never to willing to "find the money" (which is truly laughable ) to bring the original Space up to par with its american sister...which is to say...slightly closer to the great one in France

unfortunately every one will not be happy either way. People are unhappy because its closed, people are unhappy because sepulation of not much changing. Thing is People are going to compain no matter what Disney does here. Look at TTA, people upset because it was closed for refurb, now people do not like what they changed. I think this is the same thing, and its not going to matter one way or the other, some people just are not happy. At least closing ride gives them something to complain about.:D

mcjaco

11-02-2009, 02:28 PM

....and they appear to never to willing to "find the money" (which is truly laughable ) to bring the original Space up to par with its american sister...which is to say...slightly closer to the great one in France

I still cannot fathom how anyone can rank the DLP version better than either of the American ones. It's a Vekoma hunk of headbanging, that only has great theming and storytelling. Obviously, that gets rides higher marks, or people's brain's are so frazzled after riding DLP's they don't recall it.

I still rate, MK's as the best. It's layout is more thrilling, and the dueling track makes it memorable. DL's is right turn, drop, right turn, drop, repeat, repeat, repeat, etc. It's an a kiddie coaster with sound enhancements to make you think it's better than it is.

lockedoutlogic

11-02-2009, 03:35 PM

I still cannot fathom how anyone can rank the DLP version better than either of the American ones. It's a Vekoma hunk of headbanging, that only has great theming and storytelling. Obviously, that gets rides higher marks, or people's brain's are so frazzled after riding DLP's they don't recall it.

I still rate, MK's as the best. It's layout is more thrilling, and the dueling track makes it memorable. DL's is right turn, drop, right turn, drop, repeat, repeat, repeat, etc. It's an a kiddie coaster with sound enhancements to make you think it's better than it is.

To each their own.....even though its a vekoma head banger, De la Terre a la Lune is a first rate thrill....space mountain at WDW is a jerky fun little ride.....

i wouldn't give up a ride on either....but the french version is better....

The problem with the mountain at MK is that it is what it is....a 1975 steel coaster in the dark. It offers a good ride, but is now 40 years behind in technology and tricks....

the sound system would have at least added another dimension that would make the ride more immersive....

If disney had any guts....it would raze it and start over....not because its a bad ride.....it just can be alot better with new technologies....
Big thunder mountain is also comfortably in this category.....while splash, tower, rock n roller coaster, soarin, and mission space are not

kbean

11-02-2009, 04:41 PM

OK, replacing the track I can understand. I don't want it falling it apart, so regular maintenance no problem.

The interactive queue....if it makes standing in that dark squeezed tunnel, then maybe OK. I can't stand that tunnel, especially in the summer when ppl stink.

The roof you can give or take. Some(like me) will say leave it classic. It's its trade mark. How many know the rumor of that big meteor that flies over is a large chocolate chip cookie....I guess no more of that.... But ya gotta keep up with technology.

I just remember them saying an on board soundtrack would be in the cars. Space is quiet so keep the ride filled with creaking tracks and ppls screams.

mcjaco

11-02-2009, 05:12 PM

To each their own.....even though its a vekoma head banger, De la Terre a la Lune is a first rate thrill....space mountain at WDW is a jerky fun little ride.....

i wouldn't give up a ride on either....but the french version is better....

The problem with the mountain at MK is that it is what it is....a 1975 steel coaster in the dark. It offers a good ride, but is now 40 years behind in technology and tricks....

the sound system would have at least added another dimension that would make the ride more immersive....

If disney had any guts....it would raze it and start over....not because its a bad ride.....it just can be alot better with new technologies....
Big thunder mountain is also comfortably in this category.....while splash, tower, rock n roller coaster, soarin, and mission space are not

See, this has been brought before on another Disney Forum, and the annual Mitch Hawker coaster poll, always, always, has the DLP version rated way below the other four versions. Those results are from thousands of coaster enthusiasts. I think Disney people get caught up in the theming more than the ride sometimes.

I still think Whizzer and Six Flags Great America is one of the best coasters there, and it's from 1974. And would you say the same about the Matterhorn?

As of last February, I dare say RnRC was showing it's age. It's getting pretty headbanging too. And Soarin' IMO is still the most overated ride on the property.

seanyred

11-02-2009, 10:44 PM

See, this has been brought before on another Disney Forum, and the annual Mitch Hawker coaster poll, always, always, has the DLP version rated way below the other four versions. Those results are from thousands of coaster enthusiasts. I think Disney people get caught up in the theming more than the ride sometimes.

I still think Whizzer and Six Flags Great America is one of the best coasters there, and it's from 1974. And would you say the same about the Matterhorn?

As of last February, I dare say RnRC was showing it's age. It's getting pretty headbanging too. And Soarin' IMO is still the most overated ride on the property.

I love the Whizzer...it was almost torn down...and thankfully Six Flags listened to the fans for a change and left it alone...but I digress.

Back to the original topic...I just hope that there were more changes made to Space Mountain to update it but not take away from the classic feel. There is nothing wrong with a good classic coaster. Not everything needs fancy bells and whistles.

lockedoutlogic

11-02-2009, 11:39 PM

See, this has been brought before on another Disney Forum, and the annual Mitch Hawker coaster poll, always, always, has the DLP version rated way below the other four versions. Those results are from thousands of coaster enthusiasts. I think Disney people get caught up in the theming more than the ride sometimes.

I still think Whizzer and Six Flags Great America is one of the best coasters there, and it's from 1974. And would you say the same about the Matterhorn?

As of last February, I dare say RnRC was showing it's age. It's getting pretty headbanging too. And Soarin' IMO is still the most overated ride on the property.

to each their own....

i rode the paris version exactly twice.....
each ride was worth 25 rides on a US version

plutoboy

11-03-2009, 12:36 AM

Just a small correction to one of the posters that mentioned Phil Harris. Phil Holmes is the current Vice President of the MK. Phil Harris is the actor/musician that voiced Baloo and Little John.

Having worked under Mr. Holmes I can say this much....very nice and reserved gentleman but not one to exactly get things done. This among others is the reason why many feel he will be the next to be axed from the Disney Management. Amazing to me how many changes, management wise, EPCOT has gone through yet Phil remains in the Kingdom.

Ian

11-03-2009, 09:23 AM

Just a small correction to one of the posters that mentioned Phil Harris. Phil Holmes is the current Vice President of the MK. Phil Harris is the actor/musician that voiced Baloo and Little John.He's also the Captain of the Cornelia Marie, for all you Deadliest Catch fans. ;)

I've never ridden the DLP version of Space Mountain, but I have ridden the DL version and I think it's far superior to the WDW version. I was hoping that's what we'd get down in Florida and I'm pretty disappointed to hear it won't even be close to that.

DisneyFanaticDargon

11-03-2009, 09:51 AM

He's also the Captain of the Cornelia Marie, for all you Deadliest Catch fans. ;)

I've never ridden the DLP version of Space Mountain, but I have ridden the DL version and I think it's far superior to the WDW version. I was hoping that's what we'd get down in Florida and I'm pretty disappointed to hear it won't even be close to that.

I think the dual track layout is iconic to Florida, I don't think that should be changed. But it does need a lot of the visual and audio upgrades that California has.

From a technical standpoint, they are two very different style of coasters. Florida's SM is very much a wild-mouse style coaster, more akin to the Matterhorn. Not a lot of banking on the turns, and sharp, sudden drops.

California is more of a traditional coaster. Lots of wide sweeping (albeit somewhat sudden) turns and more gradual drops but at the same time, the motion created by it is enhanced by the darkness and fans to make it seem like you're going ridiculously fast. The audio also helps to enhance this illusion.

Just having these things, Florida's version could be much more exciting than it already is.

lockedoutlogic

11-03-2009, 11:35 AM

I think the dual track layout is iconic to Florida, I don't think that should be changed. But it does need a lot of the visual and audio upgrades that California has.

From a technical standpoint, they are two very different style of coasters. Florida's SM is very much a wild-mouse style coaster, more akin to the Matterhorn. Not a lot of banking on the turns, and sharp, sudden drops.

California is more of a traditional coaster. Lots of wide sweeping (albeit somewhat sudden) turns and more gradual drops but at the same time, the motion created by it is enhanced by the darkness and fans to make it seem like you're going ridiculously fast. The audio also helps to enhance this illusion.

Just having these things, Florida's version could be much more exciting than it already is.

I agree....

and now we're back to square one: they went cheap and didn't do any of it.

One of the things that stinks about being an East Coaster - they build more in WDW, but they don't seem to have the affection for re-invention or adding new dynamics to the parks the way they do at Disneyland.

Disney has built spectacular attractions in its history....but if you look at it realistically....not too many originated at WDW

The last (1994) really groundbreaking attraction they implemented (with all due respect to Kilimanjaro) was the Tower of Terror....

Most of the other "great" rides they've placed in florida come from other parks....the mansion, pirates, splash.

They've put in some high priced things...recently Everest and Mission Space...and of course the miracle that is Test Track....but those things haven't hit the mark quite right...Lots of money -new technologies-but bungled, probably because they are not within eyeshot of Imagineering and Corporate

It seems as though Disneyland still gets kinda the affection treatment from the suits and imagineers....they seem found of it. WDW is pure cold cash, unfeeling, robotic

Why else would they do something like put the IJA in Disneyland...and not in MGM - a park that has desperately needed that and much more for 20 years and has twice the visitors as part of the huge complex? But hey, a lame stuntshow from 88 is the same right? tomato...potato

WDW is a cash cow....all redevelopment since approximately the death of Frank Wells has been about profit....profit to fund bad TV, terrible movies, and Go.dot...

That is why we can't get some speakers on space mountain....there's just no profit in it.

rant endeth:thedolls:

Ian

11-03-2009, 11:59 AM

The last (1994) really groundbreaking attraction they implemented (with all due respect to Kilimanjaro) was the Tower of Terror....

Most of the other "great" rides they've placed in florida come from other parks....the mansion, pirates, splash.

They've put in some high priced things...recently Everest and Mission Space...I agree with you in principle, but I disagree here.

I would say that Tower of Terror was not a particularly unique or innovative idea. They took a very old ride concept (i.e. take you up to a high place and drop you) and just added a Disney twist to it. Did they execute it exceptionally well? Definitely. The theming, the unpredictability of the drop sequence, etc. All terrific. But the base concept? Meh. It's been done before.

Now Mission: Space, on the other hand, is almost a direct flip-flop. The entire concept behind M:S is unique. To the best of my knowledge, no one has ever taken a centrifuge and built a motion-sim attraction around it. But on M:S the execution was poor. The theming is just okay, the story is contrived (and not in synch with itself), the ride experience itself is not all that enjoyable, and the re-rideability isn't there.

But as I said, I agree with you on the DL vs. WDW comparison. I think it has more to do with the fan bases for each than anything else. DL fans are hardcore Disney fans who often harken back to the Walt era and expect everything to be perfect all the time. They saw what happened when they let things slide out there. It was a mess.

But WDW fans are, for whatever reason, much easier to please. My guess is they don't have that deep rooted historical relationship with the park (and the company as a whole) the way the DL people do, so they don't really know what they're supposed to be getting.

I mean just look on these boards as an example. How many times do you see big time WDW fans just defending and defending and defending, even in the face of the indefensible. It's weird ... DL fans expect the best and hold Disney accountable for giving it to them while WDW fans seem to just feel grateful that Disney World exists and that Disney even deigns to let them in in the first place.

I never understood that dynamic.

lockedoutlogic

11-03-2009, 12:24 PM

Ian,

Having multiple cars on a drop tower at one time by putting them on a circuitous track through a story was innovative....as was the actual drop mechanisim, which uses opposing pulleys instead of gravity as the mechanical engine....

That was revolutionary...and has not be replicated - to my knowledge - outside of disney. That's why Tower has a completely different feel from a normal drop tower...

Tower was revolutinary...or more accurately - a re-invention of an old concept

Mission Space...I agree....all technology, no fun

seanyred

11-03-2009, 02:59 PM

,
But WDW fans are, for whatever reason, much easier to please. My guess is they don't have that deep rooted historical relationship with the park (and the company as a whole) the way the DL people do, so they don't really know what they're supposed to be getting.

I mean just look on these boards as an example. How many times do you see big time WDW fans just defending and defending and defending, even in the face of the indefensible. It's weird ... DL fans expect the best and hold Disney accountable for giving it to them while WDW fans seem to just feel grateful that Disney World exists and that Disney even deigns to let them in in the first place.

I never understood that dynamic.

Don't you think that DL fans are more locally based and therfor have a much more vested intrest in the park and how it is loooking. Also being on these boards I notice that folks that have frequent trips over the years to WDW tend to be negative/critical about changes. The nostalgic rose colored lenses influence those comments.

I still think WDW could do a better job on some things but as for a refurb that is yet to finshed I will wait to hold my judgment for couple more weeks when ride Space Mountain. (and yes I rode SM in DL last summer so I should be able to compare)

lockedoutlogic

11-03-2009, 03:33 PM

to broaden this beyond space for just a moment....i ask a tiny bit of indulgence (related to the space mountain refurb discussion...distant cousin:secret:):

here's what's great about WDW:

1. EPCOT (one of a kind and possibly the greatest amusement/ theme park ever)
2. the size...that fact that anything was - and still is - possible
3. the resorts - again, many options and more as time will pass
4. the four gate/entertainment/ waterpark/wide world setup

here's what's not great:

1. MGM and Animal Kingdom opened no more than 50-66% to the level of completion they should have been
2. expanding on MGM/AK - disney's complete resistance to doing major phase II additions to the parks when it became clear (immediately) that their acceleration to open based on the excuse of threat from Universal produced sub-standard parks in comparison to MK and EP....tarnishing the legacy (alot -IMHO)
3. failure to continue the monorail line or come up with a more cost effective rail-type system...again, it looks really bad to build 40000 hotel rooms and offer partial service.
4. the failures of the last 10 years in new/ refurbs rides (the list is long but distinguished: Mission Space, Test Track, Kali River Rapids, Chester and Hester, Imagination, Imagination with Figment, whatever they are calling imagination now...and i would venture to guess that the rehabbed space will fit this bill as well as a failed opportunity)
5. Timeshares! Timeshares! Timeshares! (i am a DVC owner...but i think it has completely clouded their judgement and taken alot a juice away from creation/ innovation in florida because DVC units don't require this....just cranes, concrete, and existing colors and fixtures)
6. Copies...a disney wide problem....but also at WDW....soarin and that stunt show as BIG additions which required ZERO creative juice....just dusty plans and hard hats....more copies are one the way (little mermaid, anyone?) Can they at least copy IJA and Journey to the Center of the Earth?

sorry, this is a partial jack....but it seems that the way this space mountain thing was handled represents alot of how things have been going wrong on that property for some time

DisneyFanaticDargon

11-03-2009, 03:39 PM

I mean just look on these boards as an example. How many times do you see big time WDW fans just defending and defending and defending, even in the face of the indefensible. It's weird ... DL fans expect the best and hold Disney accountable for giving it to them while WDW fans seem to just feel grateful that Disney World exists and that Disney even deigns to let them in in the first place.

I never understood that dynamic.

When you get down to the heart of it, DLR and WDW cater to two different crowds. Disneyland is SO MUCH more a park like your typical local amusement park in the sense that the vast majority of the people that go are from the immediate area. Sure, people come from across from the country as well, but I know people that come from across the country to visit Cedar Point, it's still considered a regional park with a large local fanbase. The only major differences between Disneyland and Cedar Point is that Disneyland is internationally known and is open year-round. If you looked at the general characteristics of their fanbases, you'd notice a lot of similarities.

On the flipside, WDW falls into the category of major vacation destination. It's right up there with cruise lines, visiting Europe, or going to Hawaii. It's not just a place to go, it's THE place to go. And as such, it has a much higher price tag. Sure, there's a local crowd, but they're not nearly as endeared to it as the people in and around Anaheim are to Disneyland.

The fact is, even the most hardcore of WDW fans don't visit more than a few times a year, unlike Disneyland fans who visit multiple times a month. I count myself lucky to be able to say I probably visit WDW more than most, and that's only by virtue of the fact that I work for Disney, if I didn't you can bet I wouldn't go as often as I do. But when you start to visit it that often, you do start to see the little flaws here and there. People that have large gaps between visits miss these things because they're all starry eyed. In their minds, WDW is perfect, only because they're physically there so little that they have time to see past the surface.

Still, the expectation of high quality from WDW fans does not even come close to that of Disneyland fans. Even the most seasoned WDW veteran complaining about some issues their last visit pales in comparison to the typical infuriated Disneyland Annual Passholder.

DisneyFanaticDargon

11-03-2009, 03:45 PM

Can they at least copy IJA and Journey to the Center of the Earth?

I can understand their logic behind copying an attraction that they don't have at WDW. But I think you'd be hard pressed to explain how they would justify building 2 headliner E-ticket attractions that already exist in some form at WDW, as in:

IJA = Dinosaur
Journey to the Center of the Earth = Test Track

3D movies are one thing. I can let that slide. But you can't build 2 big headliners like this and put them in different parks and call them 'new attractions'.

That's like building Super Awesome Roller Coaster at one park, and then building Ultimate Radical Roller Coaster at another park owned by the same company across the street. The latter is essentially the same ride as the former with only a slight variation in layout, or a slight variation in theme.

I can just imagine people getting off of it and being like "Wow, didn't we ride something just like that yesterday at X park?"

lockedoutlogic

11-03-2009, 08:38 PM

I can understand their logic behind copying an attraction that they don't have at WDW. But I think you'd be hard pressed to explain how they would justify building 2 headliner E-ticket attractions that already exist in some form at WDW, as in:

IJA = Dinosaur
Journey to the Center of the Earth = Test Track

3D movies are one thing. I can let that slide. But you can't build 2 big headliners like this and put them in different parks and call them 'new attractions'.

That's like building Super Awesome Roller Coaster at one park, and then building Ultimate Radical Roller Coaster at another park owned by the same company across the street. The latter is essentially the same ride as the former with only a slight variation in layout, or a slight variation in theme.

I can just imagine people getting off of it and being like "Wow, didn't we ride something just like that yesterday at X park?"

with all due respect....

I've never heard anybody compare Journey to Test track....this is the first i'm hearing of it....not that i've been to Tokyo - but does Journey climax with an "exhilariting loop outside of a boring metallic building at speeds 25 mph less than you can experience on I-4 less than a mile away?

first i'm hearing of it....

i'll give you that dinosaur and IJA are the same ride track and system....but the quality and pop culture power of IJA more than doubles CTX...in my opinion...

besides....my point was that they might as well copy the big ticket items....not like there are two rock n roller coasters, 5 space mountains, four big thunders, 3 (or is it four now...i lost track) Towers....

you see my point? not like the "thrills" haven't been exploited as much as the teacups and small world

DisneyFanaticDargon

11-03-2009, 10:47 PM

with all due respect....

I've never heard anybody compare Journey to Test track....this is the first i'm hearing of it....not that i've been to Tokyo - but does Journey climax with an "exhilariting loop outside of a boring metallic building at speeds 25 mph less than you can experience on I-4 less than a mile away?

Journey uses the exact same technology as Test Track with a different layout and theme. And to be honest, it's fun, but it's not earth shatteringly amazing. The ride itself is less than 3 minutes long (and this is after waiting over 2 hours to ride it), and has very little in the way of speed or thrills except for the very end. In my opinion, the theme was great, but as far as utilizing the technology goes, Test Track hit the mark much better.

In terms of the other big tickets you listed, Big Thunder is the only one that was designed for Florida but didn't get off the ground fast enough. That's why Disneyland's opened a year earlier. Space Mountain, Tower (yes there are 4 now, although Tokyo's is very different) and RnRC all originated in Florida and, with the exception of the final one, are very different from their counterparts at other parks.

JabberJaws

11-09-2009, 10:39 AM

I am extremely disappointed in the lack of changes coming to SM after all the hype of a complete refurbishment.

I am an ACE member (American Coaster Enthusiasts) and have ridden TONS of coasters including both DL and WDW's SM. IMO, the coaster version of WDW's is better. I personally like the hurky-jerky unsafe feeling that you get. I also, personally, like the bobsled style cars. The exposure created from them adds to the unsafe feeling.

That being said, the themeing and SFX in the DL version are HANDS DOWN better than WDW. The ride is 10x darker than WDWs, the lift-hill tunnel is an awesome effect and really adds to the disoriented feeling you get on the ride, the in-car audio track is subtle but perfect in adding to the suspense, the projection effects and reentry tunnel are great. Also, the higher-tech audio allows from neat little rethemes like the recent "Ghost Galaxy" that help keep the ride fresh.

I would have even been ok w/o the incar audio, while keeping the bobsled style cars, but adding the other effects throughout (lift hill tunnel, projections, reentry tunnel, etc.)

I think we will see a tweaked reentry tunnel, and the redesigned queue, but that's it.

seanyred

11-09-2009, 12:33 PM

I've read elsewhere that the projection on the ceiling has been improved...I've also read that when you now ride TTA it seems darker than before...not sure how true it is...I'll find out for sure on the 21st if it opens on time.

GothMickey

11-11-2009, 11:46 AM

I can understand their logic behind copying an attraction that they don't have at WDW. But I think you'd be hard pressed to explain how they would justify building 2 headliner E-ticket attractions that already exist in some form at WDW, as in:

IJA = Dinosaur
Journey to the Center of the Earth = Test Track

3D movies are one thing. I can let that slide. But you can't build 2 big headliners like this and put them in different parks and call them 'new attractions'.

That's like building Super Awesome Roller Coaster at one park, and then building Ultimate Radical Roller Coaster at another park owned by the same company across the street. The latter is essentially the same ride as the former with only a slight variation in layout, or a slight variation in theme.

I can just imagine people getting off of it and being like "Wow, didn't we ride something just like that yesterday at X park?"

Body Wars = Star Tours = Body Wars. Same ride vehicle simulator. And both in WDW. So, why can't WDW have Indy AND Dinosaur? Most WDW are clueless. They wouldn't ever know the ride layout is the same. But, also, who is to say the layout has to be the same? This is not a valid excuse anymore as to why Indy isn't in WDW. There is only one simple answer to it. MONEY, somethnig TDO hates to spend.

DisneyFanaticDargon

11-11-2009, 07:55 PM

Body Wars = Star Tours = Body Wars. Same ride vehicle simulator. And both in WDW. So, why can't WDW have Indy AND Dinosaur? Most WDW are clueless. They wouldn't ever know the ride layout is the same. But, also, who is to say the layout has to be the same? This is not a valid excuse anymore as to why Indy isn't in WDW. There is only one simple answer to it. MONEY, somethnig TDO hates to spend.

I think the most important thing to remember is that Body Wars no longer exists. And besides that, neither of them were headliners to the degree that Indy is, or that one would expect Dinosaur to be.

And despite that, even if they did build it different layout and all, where do you propose they put it? Just replacing one Indy attraction with another doesn't make sense to me. Plus the backstage area behind that attraction is not that big and they would need to expand into a space large enough to hold the show building.

Indy works in Adventureland at Disneyland. I just can't see many places at all at WDW where they could stick it in and have it work with everything else rather than seem as though they stuck it there for the sheer sake of doing so.

lockedoutlogic

11-11-2009, 10:22 PM

I think the most important thing to remember is that Body Wars no longer exists. And besides that, neither of them were headliners to the degree that Indy is, or that one would expect Dinosaur to be.

And despite that, even if they did build it different layout and all, where do you propose they put it? Just replacing one Indy attraction with another doesn't make sense to me. Plus the backstage area behind that attraction is not that big and they would need to expand into a space large enough to hold the show building.

Indy works in Adventureland at Disneyland. I just can't see many places at all at WDW where they could stick it in and have it work with everything else rather than seem as though they stuck it there for the sheer sake of doing so.

First, i wasn't actually proposing that they build the indy ride at MGM....merely stating that they should have either with the original or shortly thereafter.....in 1998, MGM needed major re-investment.....actually it did in 1998, has every day since, and still needs it at this very second.

Second, it makes perfect sense to replace the stunt show with the ride....because the stunt show STINKS!!! it's terrible, it's old, it's been done, it's been the same thing for 20 years!!! new blood, people

Third, MGM (yes...i know it's not called that anymore....but i'm on a rant and don't care:thedolls:) is NOT short on space....the area behind the stunt show is cast parking....and that can be relocated easily....in fact, MGM's footprint is the easiest to expand by far....it is not encircled tightly by access roads or birms/ man made water barriers...or animal control fences....
the argument can be made that the Studios were made with the most expansion potential of any disney park anywhere!...by far more than EPCOT or MK...and AK has the animal "thing" to consider

so the judges reject that one in kind

DisneyFanaticDargon

11-12-2009, 09:28 AM

Third, MGM (yes...i know it's not called that anymore....but i'm on a rant and don't care:thedolls:) is NOT short on space....the area behind the stunt show is cast parking....and that can be relocated easily....in fact, MGM's footprint is the easiest to expand by far....it is not encircled tightly by access roads or birms/ man made water barriers...or animal control fences....
the argument can be made that the Studios were made with the most expansion potential of any disney park anywhere!...by far more than EPCOT or MK...and AK has the animal "thing" to consider

so the judges reject that one in kind

Actually, I used to work at DHS. I've been in the area behind the stunt show many times. It is a very small space containing many support areas for restaurants and stores. Cast parking is actually part of the existing parking lot (the TV section IIRC), some of which is used for overflow. It's the only area decent enough for Cast Parking. It's a nightmare coordinating cast parking during the Christmas-New Years period there, because there just isn't enough space anywhere else.

If you've seen the show building for Indy at DLR you know how massive it is. Massive enough in fact that it can be seen from outside the park, had to be expanded into an existing area of parking lot, and had to be disguised so that it wouldn't stick out to guests (and despite that, it still does).

Disney would have to relocate WAY too much, including their entire costuming facility for DHS in order to stick an attraction of that size in there. And as it stands there is just not enough space that would not only be usable, but also PRACTICAL to relocate to.

The only place I could see this working would be AK. And of course that would be a REAL stretch to justify, assuming they didn't take out Dinosaur which is pretty much the only decent attraction Dinoland has at this point.

lockedoutlogic

11-13-2009, 09:09 AM

Actually, I used to work at DHS. I've been in the area behind the stunt show many times. It is a very small space containing many support areas for restaurants and stores. Cast parking is actually part of the existing parking lot (the TV section IIRC), some of which is used for overflow. It's the only area decent enough for Cast Parking. It's a nightmare coordinating cast parking during the Christmas-New Years period there, because there just isn't enough space anywhere else.

If you've seen the show building for Indy at DLR you know how massive it is. Massive enough in fact that it can be seen from outside the park, had to be expanded into an existing area of parking lot, and had to be disguised so that it wouldn't stick out to guests (and despite that, it still does).

Disney would have to relocate WAY too much, including their entire costuming facility for DHS in order to stick an attraction of that size in there. And as it stands there is just not enough space that would not only be usable, but also PRACTICAL to relocate to.

The only place I could see this working would be AK. And of course that would be a REAL stretch to justify, assuming they didn't take out Dinosaur which is pretty much the only decent attraction Dinoland has at this point.

After being behind the service areas of all the parks....you can tell that DHS/MGM/Half-finished park still has far more footprint expansion space than the other parks....animal kingdom would technically have the most....but you have the animal thing to contend with.

They have the entire backlot to use...there is still room to expand out from the original footprint....and if they needed to use parking space and then add parking elsewhere....that isn't the biggest deal on earth....

i don't really want to see the IJA at the studios anymore....but it sure woulda made the last 10 years better....

Star Tours and the Stunt Show are pathetic...in my opinion. Great story driven franchises with near unlimited possibilities as far as amusement spin-offs.....and they give their largest crowds in florida....that?

Well...here's to hoping what they are apparently never going to do: flesh out that park a little....not create a fireworks rush to EPCOT from the Studio gates every day

GothMickey

11-13-2009, 09:54 AM

lockedoutlogic

11-13-2009, 10:27 AM

Indy should be in Adventureland, not DHS. Putting it in DHS would ruin any sort of adventure you are supposed to be on with Indy. The whole studio soundstage theme does not fit Indy at all.

And Body Wars DID exist with Star Tours. And I venture to say they were BOTH headliner attractions, heavily promoted, and worthy of E-ticket status. You can say Dinosaur isn't a headliner either. So, then there is no reason for Indy not to be in WDW. Oh wait, there is: TDO HATES TO SPEND MONEY!!!! Money is the only reason Indy isn't in WDW. TDO is more worried about the bottom line and their bonuses.

well....ctx and ija are clones.....so each side of the country got one.....

WDW just got the lesser of the two...

as far as star tours/ body wars....

listen....they were "ok" for the 80's....but let's be serious: motion simulators were a horrible idea that went bustarino along time ago....

star tours should be dismantled and replaced with something....anything that is a little more interesting....

heck, i'd rather have a walk through prop museum...personally

star tours...whether or not you slap a new film in it....is ridiculously obsolete. old rollercoasters (like space) become classics....old motion simulators? pathetic

Patricia

11-13-2009, 12:03 PM

You people have seriously gone off topic..

Space Mountain:

On Disney's blog today..

We have more details to share about the Space Mountain attraction at Walt Disney World’s Magic Kingdom Park as renovation work wraps up.

As you know, the classic Space Mountain experience still exists — it’s just being updated with new technology and 21st century gadgetry. Inside the attraction, there’s new lighting as well as special “darkening” effects. And you’ll see updated color schemes for rocket capsules, line and load areas. Imagineers worked with Walt Disney World Facilities Asset Management for even more enhancements, including new paint, carpet, seat fabric and other décor elements.

But what caught my attention during a recent walkthrough were details about track upgrades. It’s the same track layout and overall look and feel but workers integrated new technology into the track while not changing the classic Space Mountain ride experience. “As technology evolves, it helps us enhance those elements without losing any essence of the attraction,” Walt Disney Imagineering Senior Show Designer Alex Wright says.

You should also know that a ride photo system will capture guests during their space flights on Space Mountain. It’ll utilize Disney’s Photopass, allowing you to access, share and purchase photos during and after a visit.
Alex says he thinks you’ll be “pleasantly surprised” with the enhancements. The attraction is scheduled to reopen on November 22. Let us know what you think in the comments.

Scar

11-13-2009, 01:15 PM

lockedoutlogic

11-13-2009, 01:52 PM

OK, so one of the premier attractions at WDW was closed for 7 months so they could:

- Change the lighting
- Redecorate
- Upgrade the track while keeping it the same... whatever that means
- And be able to sell overpriced photos

Cool :thumbsup:

ahhh...but at least we got to the "meat" of the "upgrades"....

on ride photo....what will they think of next?!?:mickey:

lockedoutlogic

11-13-2009, 01:54 PM

Stu29573

11-13-2009, 04:21 PM

FYI, They've just posted that Photopass will NOT be used with the onride photo system. Since none of the other rides use Photopass either, this isn't surprising...

Figment!

11-13-2009, 04:28 PM

They've just posted that Photopass will NOT be used with the onride photo system.Since none of the other rides use Photopass either, this isn't surprising...I believe Test Track still uses PhotoPass for its on-ride pictures ...

...but yes, the Disney Parks Blog appears to have rescinded their announcment that the Space Mountain on-ride picture will be available on Photo Pass. It is interesting though that the comment is only struck through and not totally removed :shrug:

lockedoutlogic

11-13-2009, 04:57 PM

I believe Test Track still uses PhotoPass for its on-ride pictures ...

...but yes, the Disney Parks Blog appears to have rescinded their announcment that the Space Mountain on-ride picture will be available on Photo Pass. It is interesting though that the comment is only struck through and not totally removed :shrug:

Wow....they have figured out a way to slash the budget....after the rehab

Walt would be proud:blush:

seanyred

11-13-2009, 11:40 PM

I get that is everyone is underwhelmed by what appears to be a mostly cosmetic refurb, but could we save judgment until we ride it? Or better yet if anyone on here was at the soft opening I would like to hear your opinion. When I get back from trip next week I will be sure give my honest opinion.

WDWfanatic742

11-14-2009, 12:10 AM

lockedoutlogic

11-14-2009, 07:59 AM

Not only that but its still in soft opening and they clearly haven't revealed the final product...but geez, be happy that they did anything to the ride in the first place. They could have just left it alone and never have had to deal with all these negative comments all over the web...

Face it, at least they didn't do a thing wrong with this refurb, ala SSE's ending.

With all do respect...you are giving the management, both in Orlando and in Anaheim (and their wall street masters), too much credit.

yes...they could have done nothing...but they have dangled this redo out there....publically...for several years.

And it appears they have done little. That's a good way to look like a buffoon

but you're rigt... we'll see

:jaw:

bradk

11-14-2009, 01:30 PM

lockedoutlogic

11-14-2009, 02:00 PM

For the record, it was a misunderstanding. The attraction was never meant to use PhotoPass. It DOES have an onboard photo which will have to be purchased, but someone at the blogs automatically linked the photo to PhotoPass. honest mistake.

Test Track remains the only attraction using PhotoPass technology although the system was built into place at Space Mountain so it COULD support PhotoPass should they decide to switch over in the future

brad
(author of the definitive guide to photopass)

I'm surprise they all haven't been switched to photopass....the photopass system is one of the smartest, money generating ideas that they've come up with in the history of the parks....

why not give people the chance to buy for months instead of the 15 seconds it takes to walk outta the ride?

license to print...in my opinion

WDWfanatic742

11-14-2009, 02:56 PM

I think we all could think of more to do that would look better, and I bet Imagineering wanted to do more as well. But from what I have read, they did as much as they could with the budget that was given to them which looks like kept on getting cut time and time again. I could be SO much happier if they did anything with the track or add audio to the cars or just some of the effects that DLR's has, but I'm happy that we got something at least. Seems to be a theme lately...

2Epcot

11-14-2009, 05:25 PM

I still rate, MK's as the best. It's layout is more thrilling, and the dueling track makes it memorable. DL's is right turn, drop, right turn, drop, repeat, repeat, repeat, etc. It's an a kiddie coaster with sound enhancements to make you think it's better than it is.

I'll take those right turns, and repeats, over a bumpy ride in the dark. As I've said before I will not ride WDW's version again, until it gets a proper upgrade.

But as I said, I agree with you on the DL vs. WDW comparison. I think it has more to do with the fan bases for each than anything else. DL fans are hardcore Disney fans who often harken back to the Walt era and expect everything to be perfect all the time. They saw what happened when they let things slide out there. It was a mess.

But WDW fans are, for whatever reason, much easier to please. My guess is they don't have that deep rooted historical relationship with the park (and the company as a whole) the way the DL people do, so they don't really know what they're supposed to be getting.

Having been a member of Intercot for 3 1/2 years and just this past summer joined another Disney board that is more Disneyland focused ... I can say that you are right on target Ian. Both boards have almost the same number of members, however the other board gets at least 10 to 1 more post over this site... These are very hard core fans, who will break apart every detail of every attraction at the park. When the fans are that into the resort, Disney can not get away with much. I still love Intercot, and WDW, but I see how the fans can really have an impact on the way a resort operates.

Ian

11-14-2009, 05:30 PM

I still love Intercot, and WDW, but I see how the fans can really have an impact on the way a resort operates.As lockedoutlogic has pointed out on numerous occasions, Disney World is the cash cow of the Disney empire.

People just go there and fork over huge piles of money, regardless of what they get. Why? Because most people regard going to Disney World as a must-do at some point in life.

And, for whatever reason, the East Coast Disney dweebs just never developed that sense of responsibility in terms of holding the company accountable to Walt's ideals. The West Coasters embrace that in spades and it's worked for them.

Unfortunately, I just don't see that ever happening in WDW. They'll run that place into the ground, milking every nickel out of it in the process.

Hammer

11-14-2009, 06:20 PM

You know, many people on here wax poetically about DL, but in my 2 trips out there, it hasn't bowled me over. CMs in DL supposedly are better as they grasp Walt's ideal? I've had more bad CM experiences in my 2 trips to DL than in all of my numerous trips to WDW. Yes, Space Mountain and Pirates are better there as well as the Matterhorn, but that's doesn't make me want to fly 3,000 miles that often. I plan to give it another chance (which is saying something as I do not give many things a 3rd chance), but my expectations are not high.

One of the problems, I think, is now that Burbank controls the purse strings, they aren't inclined to give double the money for WDW, which is what should happen as there are 4 theme parks and 2 water parks to maintain in FL, versus 2 parks in CA. I'll see for myself in December how I feel about the changes.

bradk

11-14-2009, 07:45 PM

it's my understanding.. and this didn't come from any official sources.. that PhotoPass is not being initially used for non-technical and monetary reasons. it's more of a sensitivity issue.

as silly as it seems, it can easily be argued that PhotoPass can do things that no other company like Kodak can do, but the ride photo isn't something revolutionary or highly specialized.

probably the same sort of thing that's keeping PhotoPass off of DCL

DisneyFanaticDargon

11-15-2009, 08:48 AM

Ok so, I got to ride Space Mountain as part of a soft opening yesterday and here is my reaction.

Everything I figured would be the case IS the case. The queue is almost identical to the way it was before, minus the interactive section towards the very end. The loading area is the only thing that is drastically different, as you can no longer see the track above you (which is, in my mind, part of the reason that it wasn't as dark as it could have been in the initial version).

The ride itself is pretty much unchanged. There are different sound effects in the blue tunnel. The mountain itself is darker, and there seems to be more stars. The re-entry tunnel is still the same effect they've used since 1975. The exit area is identical. The escalator portion has some new scenery/touched up scenery. The green screen tunnel on the exit escalator has been painted a hideous shade of neon lime green and the former TVs have been shoddily covered up with a banner.

California is still leaps and bounds ahead of this one and TDO really dropped the ball here. I know we're in a bad economy, but this ride is the way it is now because Disney was worried about all the whiners and complainers they would have had to deal with going "Oh my vacation is totally ruined because SPACE MOUNTAIN WASN'T OPEN and I'll never ever ever have the chance to get on it again."

To which I respond with, "Big deal. California closed theirs for almost 2 years and the world didn't come to an end. Deal with it."

Disney needs to stop worrying about what their guests think in the short term and instead think about the long term profits that could result from giving Space Mountain the upgrade that it TRULY deserves despite a much lengthier closure. They need to start focusing on quality again. Giving into the complainers and rushing a refurb to have it open for Christmas, especially after seeing what the end result was (which is to say, it's pretty much the exact same ride) has proven to me that TDO has really lost its way in terms of delivering a unique and memorable experience so many years after an attraction has opened.

One last thing...before anybody responds with "it's not officially finished yet"...note that it's supposed to reopen next Saturday. There's no way you could get me to believe they're going to throw in some drastically huge upgrade in less than a week.

Edit: Forgot to note that the on-ride photo is in one of the most nonsensical places possible: at the turn in the "launch" tunnel that takes you onto the lift. In my picture I looked like a deer in headlights because it wasn't even a remotely exciting part of the ride yet.

DizneyFreak2002

11-15-2009, 11:36 AM

As lockedoutlogic has pointed out on numerous occasions, Disney World is the cash cow of the Disney empire.

People just go there and fork over huge piles of money, regardless of what they get. Why? Because most people regard going to Disney World as a must-do at some point in life.

And, for whatever reason, the East Coast Disney dweebs just never developed that sense of responsibility in terms of holding the company accountable to Walt's ideals. The West Coasters embrace that in spades and it's worked for them.

Unfortunately, I just don't see that ever happening in WDW. They'll run that place into the ground, milking every nickel out of it in the process.

Ian, sadly, you are right... However, we CAN have an impact.. What we need is an Al Lutz type blog on WDW... We need to point out the shortcoming.. We need to embarrassment management in Orlando.. We need, well, you get the picture... Only then can we, the East Coast Disney dweebs, have a true impact on WDW...

WDWfanatic742

11-15-2009, 01:08 PM

Just to add some things from what I have read online that I don't think have been added here. They updated most of the plastic screens as you enter in the first queue room from outside. The ball pit is still there. The esculator ride has some new props and inculding a few Horizons refrences as well (Mesa Verde :thumbsup:). The green wall looks to be more of a green screen and the tarp is covering the cameras at this time. Although I hope something else changes when they take away that tarp, because that green wall is BRIGHT.

Safety Video is still there, instead of 4 small screen, there is 1 big screen. The video is still the same as before, but that can be put in overnight. Air gates were added as well.

Hammer

11-15-2009, 05:31 PM

However, we CAN have an impact.. What we need is an Al Lutz type blog on WDW... We need to point out the shortcoming.. We need to embarrassment management in Orlando.. We need, well, you get the picture... Only then can we, the East Coast Disney dweebs, have a true impact on WDW...

The problem with that is that management in Orlando does not decide the budgets anymore. The money management decisions are now all centralized in CA, and as you can tell, they don't care what happens in Orlando.

GothMickey

11-16-2009, 12:21 PM

The problem with that is that management in Orlando does not decide the budgets anymore. The money management decisions are now all centralized in CA, and as you can tell, they don't care what happens in Orlando.

I will have to respecyfully disagree. I am of the opinion that TDO really didn't care much about quality in WDW, as long as they receive that fat bonus. And let's face it, quality around the resort has been down. Entertainment cuts come from TDO. Lights of Winter being cut is a TDO decision. The Space Mountain refurb was a TDO decision. (If I am wrong, please correct me someone.)

In CA, they forced the Fantasyland expansion down TDO's throats. TDO also didn't want the complete Star Tours refurb. Glendale FORCED it.

Hopefully power has been taken out of the hands of the team in Orlando. With their leader Rasulo gone, one can only hope Meg is right behind him, along with her other partners in crime in Orlando.

Hammer

11-16-2009, 12:52 PM

I will have to respecyfully disagree. I am of the opinion that TDO really didn't care much about quality in WDW, as long as they receive that fat bonus. And let's face it, quality around the resort has been down. Entertainment cuts come from TDO. Lights of Winter being cut is a TDO decision. The Space Mountain refurb was a TDO decision. (If I am wrong, please correct me someone.)

In CA, they forced the Fantasyland expansion down TDO's throats. TDO also didn't want the complete Star Tours refurb. Glendale FORCED it.

Hopefully power has been taken out of the hands of the team in Orlando. With their leader Rasulo gone, one can only hope Meg is right behind him, along with her other partners in crime in Orlando.

Actually, I don't know if it was operations in Orlando that made the final decision on any of these things or if the decision was ultimately in the hands of the CA management, which ultimately controls the purse strings. If you have proof that is the case, I would love to read it over.

Disneyland management benefits on the fact that Disneyland is right there and the person that the board in Burbank put Meg in charge (which I do not think is a coincidence) who does not have any connection to Orlando (or anything Disney prior to her appointment). I think the Board in CA cares more about what happens out there than anywhere else, just so long as WDW make enough money to get them their bonus, so they'll stick anyone at WDW. It goes back to the fact CA cares only about money when it comes to WDW and not the product.

Remember, if they boot out who is in Orlando, CA ultimately decides who is there and if Orlando is not a priority for them, they'll just put more of the same.

Ian

11-16-2009, 01:18 PM

Remember, if they boot out who is in Orlando, CA ultimately decides who is there and if Orlando is not a priority for them, they'll just put more of the same.Christine's absolutely right. From a Disney Corporate perspective, Disneyland is the shrine to Walt and his ideals and WDW is the company cash cow.

They really couldn't care less about quality issues when it comes to WDW. They only care about how much money they can squeeze out of it to fund activities in the other arms of the company.

Buttercup

11-16-2009, 03:10 PM

My sister (jennsky here on Intercot) is at Disney World right now. Lucky duck! She just phoned me from outside Space Mountain.
She was able to get on the ride today during the soft opening (Monday November 16) with no lineup. Here's her update of the changes:
- the lighting in the queue
- the interior of the ride is darker
- there is a new 'whoop whoop' sound when you're taking off at the beginning
- there is no fountain out front as some had predicted, but rather a new tree with some plants and landscaping

And that's about it. She said it's pretty much the same as the ride was before the rehab except for those minor changes.

But, I'll take an only semi-impressive change of Space Mountain any day, over a day at home!:thumbsup:

Scar

11-16-2009, 03:16 PM

She said it's pretty much the same as the ride was before the rehab except for those minor changes.And it only took them 7 months.

MaxPower

11-16-2009, 03:19 PM

What a waste of time and money.

BMan62

11-16-2009, 03:24 PM

lockedoutlogic

11-16-2009, 04:21 PM

Christine's absolutely right. From a Disney Corporate perspective, Disneyland is the shrine to Walt and his ideals and WDW is the company cash cow.

They really couldn't care less about quality issues when it comes to WDW. They only care about how much money they can squeeze out of it to fund activities in the other arms of the company.

Is there an echo in here?

:secret:

lockedoutlogic

11-16-2009, 04:25 PM

Can't we all get off the 'and it only took xxxx months!' bandwagon? No one on here knows what structural or mechanical changes/updates/repairs had to be made, so give us a break.

Yes, the 'bells and whistles' changes were relatively minor, and probably an afterthought to 'cover' the real reasons it had to be down for so long.

OK, I'm off my soapbox now!! Enjoy the updates!!!

ok....let's get on my new bandwagon:

what kinda shape was this thing in that it took seven monthswithout full mechanical replacement to get it back in normal operation mode?

I'm not kidding....this is an eyebrow raiser....this isn't like adding Obama to the hall of presidents.....this is a mechanical device with high speeds and drops....and built 34 years ago....

hmmmmmm:confused:

WDWfanatic742

11-16-2009, 07:21 PM

what kinda shape was this thing in that it took seven monthswithout full mechanical replacement to get it back in normal operation mode?

It was in "normal operation mode" when it went down seven months ago. From what I've read they increased the number of supports and the amount of weight that the structure can hold. Who knows if this was for the onboard audio or not. I'm in the boat of doubting that they will add that feature anytime soon, but someone somewhere (don't ask me where because I can't remember) said that they actually did test onboard audio with one car sometime lately.

I don't know how or if they ever did this in the first place, but we will never know EVERYTHING that they actually did during the seven months. So nobody can say that they wasted money and I can't say that they spent it well, because we simply do not know what happened for sure.

lockedoutlogic

11-16-2009, 11:42 PM

It was in "normal operation mode" when it went down seven months ago. From what I've read they increased the number of supports and the amount of weight that the structure can hold. Who knows if this was for the onboard audio or not. I'm in the boat of doubting that they will add that feature anytime soon, but someone somewhere (don't ask me where because I can't remember) said that they actually did test onboard audio with one car sometime lately.

I don't know how or if they ever did this in the first place, but we will never know EVERYTHING that they actually did during the seven months. So nobody can say that they wasted money and I can't say that they spent it well, because we simply do not know what happened for sure.

we had an account of a person who was on today who said what was "different"....

nothing....new lights in the cue and a repainted ceiling....track replacement that wouldn't be noticable anyway....

so whatever they did or didn't do that we know about....nobody will be curious.

Space mountain is the same...that's fine...but if had been closed for 3 more months to make audio and visual changes....what that have really hurt business?

No....because it wasn't about "guest experience"...it was about MONEY!!!!!

I can only imagine (ha ha) what it might be like in Imagineering....dreaming big and more often than not, having the creativity and engineering know how to do something...but being derailed by people with neither of those attributes....:mickey:

DisneyFanaticDargon

11-17-2009, 08:53 AM

It was in "normal operation mode" when it went down seven months ago. From what I've read they increased the number of supports and the amount of weight that the structure can hold. Who knows if this was for the onboard audio or not. I'm in the boat of doubting that they will add that feature anytime soon, but someone somewhere (don't ask me where because I can't remember) said that they actually did test onboard audio with one car sometime lately.

I don't know how or if they ever did this in the first place, but we will never know EVERYTHING that they actually did during the seven months. So nobody can say that they wasted money and I can't say that they spent it well, because we simply do not know what happened for sure.

Not sure if you've checked out the trains for Space Mountain, but implementing an audio system onto the ones they have would be a feat of engineering. It would likely require a complete redesign of the train to the point where the entire track would need to be replaced anyway because the new trains would differ so much that no amount of structural strengthening would prepare them for the added weight.

The on-board audio at Disneyland came BEFORE the total track replacement, and that was because Disney didn't estimate the additional stress the heavier trains would put on the track. They're not going to make that same mistake twice. If the trains didn't get changed, they didn't replace the track or any significant part of it. End of story.

princessgirls

11-17-2009, 11:50 AM

unfortunately....you don't have to be nostradamus here....

if the budget and timetable are slashed and squeezed....then nothing will come of it...

I have always liked space mountain...that won't change....but to not put in the extras that DL got 10 years ago....seems like pure cheapskatery.....

And i know that WDW has alot of first time visitors that they don't want to "disappoint"...but it also has over 50% repeats at all times (fact)...and it is an amusement enterprise....which involves rehabs around the globe...

This is about keeping one more frontline ride operational for five years without serious re-investment....and the timetable is about having one more thing to stand in line for during the holiday season while they pack the park's every square inch to the gills.....

I give credit where it is due...but they do not derserve it on this one....this is extended routine maintenance....and they appear to never to willing to "find the money" (which is truly laughable ) to bring the original Space up to par with its american sister...which is to say...slightly closer to the great one in France

I did get a chuckle out of the nostradamus reference. That was a good one!
Julie:mickey:

lockedoutlogic

11-17-2009, 02:52 PM

There was a posting on the Orlando Sentinels Disney Blog today about the "new" space mountain

12 million dollars (still laughing about this one...though i'm sure that number was just something they put on the permits)....video games, a lower roof over the queue area, apparently an attempt to darken the ride structure.....and a camera where you can pay 16.95 a pop to see yourself squint...

So the moderators should close this thread down.....and reopen it when they actually bother to close space mountain down long enough and invest enough money to make it a new or enhanced experience.

Is it just me...or is having that thing darker a better thing? it's already a violent little 70's thing that wrenches heads, necks,and legs (especially for those of us with longer ones) at every drop and turn.....maybe it's just me:(