Will Harry Potter Parklett make an Impact on Disney?

[antngoof89]

After reading some of the thread on another site about HP land, I was just wondering if anyone here believes it's going to make a huge impact on Disney attendance or not?

Screamscape also released something recently rumouring several major additions being "released" through Disney press releases in the near future.

I think the only thing that would happen will be more Pixar rides in HS since Pixar has put out several popular films, a probable rehab of FL and maybe some new technology that is state of the art at Epcot. There were a lot of Walls up at Epcot when I was last there as well as some walls at the Magic Kingdom, but I don't know if there will be anything updated at AK.

I doubt HP will have a huge impact on Disney attendance seeing as many guests go to both parks during their visits to Florida and a lot of people I know, do NOT like US as much as Disney. There is no magic.

What do you guys think?

[NJGIRL]

I think Harry Potter will have the hard core Disney fans that have refused to go to Universal in the past try it out. I do not think that Disney will lose attendence because of Harry Potter but I do think it will bring many more people to Universal. I personally love Universal, I love the atmosphere there. Is it the same as Disney....no it is much different but not in a bad way. I like both places equally the same and almost get the feeling that some people feel they are being disloyal to Disney if they like Universal. Just my opinion but I don't think Disney will lose attendence because of Harry Potter.

[Jared]

Harry Potter will absolutely make a dent in Disney's attendance, and Disney better respond. As far as I'm concerned, the only franchise more relevant and popular than Harry Potter is Star Wars. Harry Potter is a behemoth, and though it won't crush Disney, Universal is in good position right now to close the gap.

[llamaface]

I'm one of those who will be going to Universal i/o Disney once HPland opens. Unfortunately, Disney has lost some of its magic on my family. I admit that part of that is due to the fact that we have gone 8 times in the past 9 years, plus there have not been enough changes in those 9 years. I can't believe Beauty and the Beast is still playing at HS!!

[DizneyRox]

Nope... Maybe short term, but that happens with any attraction that opens. But, in the grand sceme of things, it won't do anything. Everyone "has to go to Disney" it's like a pilgrimage, but I've never heard, "What? You're not going to Universal?" And I have never heard anyone say, "Yeah, we're going on vacation to Universal again this year"

Disney knows this and that's why there's no response. They don't have to spend any money to "combat" this new threat...

Another example of Disney resting on their laurels.

BTW - I think IOA is a better theme park than any of the Disney parks, overall, and they have probably the top 2 or 3 rides in Central Florida, but it still doesn't take anything away from Disney.

[ThanxForNoticin]

Nope... Maybe short term, but that happens with any attraction that opens. But, in the grand sceme of things, it won't do anything.

I think DizneyRox is 100% correct. There will be an initial rush, but nothing that's going to cause Disney major concerns. The problem with HP is that it's coming too late for Universal. This is something they should have done a few years ago. HP movies are still a big deal, but most of the serious fans of HP are getting older - and already know how it ends!

[Donald's Girl]

There aren't many bigger HP fans than me but, that being said, Universal will remain a one, maybe 2 day park, that I need to visit every few trips to WDW. I can't imagine anything that they could do that would make me feel I need to spend 7 nights there!

I already told my husband that it will be time to make the trek there when HP land opens. Since neither of us are roller coaster fanatics ( like them but don't have to ride all of them) we have always bought the 2 day pass, managed to do all we want in both parks in one, and save the second day for our next trip down. Don't think HP is going to make much difference for us.

As for resorts, NOTHING Universal has could compare to what options Disney offers IMHO.

[swampfox28]

I don't know - it's a good question.

I don't think that the HP park will have the widespread demographic appeal that Disney does - but I know personally as much as I'm a Disney-a-holic, I would practically knock over my own 12 year old on the way into the HP park (just kidding - kind of!!)

I'm just a HUGE HP fan and would love to see it. But I don't know if LONG term I'd have the need-to-go-over-and-over thing that I do with Disney; as it is, once every 3 years or so is SO not enough!!!


-Sarah

[Aurora]

I've been reading a lot about how people think the Harry Potter land will be an initial bump and then it will peter out...and I can't disagree more.

Harry Potter isn't like Jurassic Park or Spiderman or Dr. Seuss. It's not only a book and movie franchise, it's got way more longevity than people realize. Kids and adults love to "live" these stories. If Universal does this right (and from construction photos it looks like it will), I can see it being a big visitor draw for possibly 20 years.

For a bit of insight, look at the 6th movie. The 7th book has been out for two years, everyone knows what's going to happen. In all respects, the movies' interest should be dwindling, yet the 6th movie broke world box-office records for the weekend.

Also, I live in Chicago, where the Harry Potter exhibit made its debut in late April. The Museum of Science and Industry, which is hosting the exhibit, has extended its hours nightly JUST to handle the crowds for the exhibition. In other words, the rest of the museum closes at 4 p.m., but the Harry Potter exhibit is open 'til 9 p.m.

It won't matter that people won't spend 5 days at Universal. Three days, even two, is a big chunk of money out of Disney pockets.

Here's another thing: I made my FIRST trip to Universal last year after many years of wonderful trips to Disney. We spent one day there with flash passes, and one day wasn't enough. I was very surprised by the standards of park service and entertainment, and I now plan at least two days at Universal when visiting Disney.

In fact, we're planning a trip to Florida for the sole reason of visiting the Harry Potter land when it opens.

[JPL]

I think people are measuring impact factor wrong. I don't think HP will destory Disney or put a large dent in attendance figures but It will impact Disney in many other ways.

Here are some possible examples:
1. People planning to visit HP will most likely rent a car and this leads to them straying from Disney Property for meals and souvenirs. It will possibly also lead them to spend a Day at Sea World.

2. Some people planning to visit HP will do what I am planning to do. Spend a night or 2 at a Universal Resort for front of line access.

3. People will be exposed to more that Orlando Area (ie. Dining & Small Attractions on I-Drive) has to offer and might cut down the number of days they visit Disney parks. Disney tends to shield guests from these things.

On the positive it will force Disney to upgrade their product and offer more incentives to stay on property and visit Disney Parks exclusively. We will start seeing more neew attractions and other experiences that only Disney can offer. Competition is good, Disney started to rest on their reputation as Universal started to decline over the years now they will be forced into action.

[Supercali]

First, I have to admit, I'm not a Harry Potter fan. I will probably visit IOA just to see what the fuss is all about. I think that it will, in the short term, help IOA's attendance which surely needs help. I'm sure that it will have great theming. However, I don't see it affecting WDW's attendance that much. I have heard that Disney plans to introduce major new attractions in all four parks if Harry is deemed a threat. That would be great for all of us. I just don't feel that the Harry Potter franchise will have a lasting appeal for the long run. I think that once the last film has come and gone that its appeal will begin to wear off a lot more than it currently has.

[bwgens]

I think that there will be an immediate impact from HP. It might not make a huge dent in their attendance, but it will be enough to take notice.

As far as people saying it won't effect Disney long term, I think that they really are talking about how Universal deals with it. At some point people will have seen what they have and want more, and I just don't know if Universal is in a position to provide more down the line. I really believe that the people that will be going there are going to have huge expectations regarding this just because of how beloved it is. Time will only tell if Universal realizes just how demanding of perfection the fans will be of the product they put out there.

In the end, with the people at the top of the company at Disney now (ie: Lasseter, Iger) they are going to be more responsive to direct challenges to their business. I still give them credit for taking drastic action at DCA, and really am hopeful they aren't quite done yet with their US themeparks.

[gueli]

Yes it will affect disney.

Like many previos posters have said, I do not think it will drasticly lower the attendance BUT it will affect the bottom line.
It is one of the things that makes me think about going to US. If I do that, not all of my vacation money will be spent at Disney. I might stay offsite, split a vacation or even (heaven forbid) not go to WDW on a trip.

Yes it will affect US's attendance. Long term and short term. As it does this, US might make similar hardcore investments to keep people coming back.

If WDW sits back and does nothing...then slowly their core buisness will erode. So WDW will do some things, but will they do them right ? (I am reffering to them dropping lots of money & proper theming & having them well thought out....)
In the end, HP will take a chunk out of the bottom line.

Please remember HP fans range from youngsters (old enough to read & be enthralled by the movies) through teens, and the original teens who were teens when the 1st book came out are now in their 20's to us older kids at heart (30 +), so the fan base is very widespread. HP will not go away for many years...
I still will like WDW, but hP aat US will get some of my money...
:blush:

[xipetotec]

After reading some of the thread on another site about HP land, I was just wondering if anyone here believes it's going to make a huge impact on Disney attendance or not?

Screamscape also released something recently rumouring several major additions being "released" through Disney press releases in the near future.

I think the only thing that would happen will be more Pixar rides in HS since Pixar has put out several popular films, a probable rehab of FL and maybe some new technology that is state of the art at Epcot. There were a lot of Walls up at Epcot when I was last there as well as some walls at the Magic Kingdom, but I don't know if there will be anything updated at AK.

I doubt HP will have a huge impact on Disney attendance seeing as many guests go to both parks during their visits to Florida and a lot of people I know, do NOT like US as much as Disney. There is no magic.

What do you guys think?

Well I can only say from my perspective. My family ( 5 -15 people depending on the trip ) like Universal. But we only go every couple of trips for one day. But we also love Harry Potter. So we still love Disney more as a whole and will be staying at Disney, but i think we will probably be going to IOA more often for Harry Potter ( if it's good, obviously )... that being said, we'll still be going to Disney more then IOA, but even that one extra day, times many million fans ... I think it will definitely have an impact.

[NJGIRL]

I want to add one more thing that is just a feeling I have. JKR has stopped writing HP books and I understand her reasons but I have a feeling we haven't seen the last of HP. I think somewhere down the road she will write more HP books and they will be as popular as the others.

I don't think HP at Universal if done right will lose it's appeal at all, just like Pirates or Haunted Mansion hasn't lost it's appeal at Disney.

I really do hope it brings more people to the Universal parks so that they can see what a fun park it is. Besides their great rollercoasters you can't beat Spiderman or The Mummy. I also think ET beats Peter Pan, MIB beats Buzz, and Shrek beats MickeysPhil.

My travel agent has told me many times that the Universal Hotels are four star hotels. I think Universal has the "equipment" to give Disney a run for it's money but they haven't yet figured out how to use that equipment.

[BrerGnat]

Let's not forget that, at the heart of it, Harry Potter is a BOOK CHARACTER! And, at that, a CHILDREN'S BOOK CHARACTER.

Not that it's only for children, but you know what I mean. ;)

All the adult HP geeks, like me, who now have YOUNG children (mine are boys, 3 and 5), will undoubtedly pass along the stories to THEIR children, who might or might not become HP fans as well.

The potential for HP land at IOA to be a HUGE draw for DECADES into the future is there.

People keep referring to just the movies, but let's not forget, where HP is concerned, "It all started with a book..."

[Clay Ransone]

The Disney brass is absolutely going to notice Harry Potter Land at IOA if I am any indication. When I got to Disney World I do not leave property unless I’m going to Walgreens or Goodings. When I make one of those trips I’m gone for an hour tops. Once Harry Potter Land opens at IOA I will be paying a visit for a day or two. I dare say I will stay at one of the Universal resorts for front of the line access and for the convenience of being there. Rather than spend my full week vacation at a Disney resort now it will probably be five or six nights. This will also keep me out of the Disney shops and restaurants for a few days. I would be willing to bet that I’m not an anomaly with regards to Harry Potter Land opening.

[joonyer]

The Harry Potter franchise (books & movies) is already a literary classic and is destined to be around for a very long, long time. As a fantasy-adventure, it is timeless, and it's popularity will not be dampened by cultural changes or or technological advances in society. A good comparison to me would be "Star Wars". The first SW movie came out in 1977, over 32 years ago. Even with the 16 year gap between the original 3 movies and the "prequels" the last SW movie is now over 4 years old, and yet the SW franchise is still running strong, even right there at DHS, where Disney still makes a major deal out of it every year (SW weekends).

Harry Potter, like Star Wars, has already become a pop culture phenomenon, and his popularity will span generation after generation of kids and adults alike, just like SW, so I see the "Wizarding World of HP" (it's not HP-land) at IOA as being a very long term investment by Universal (I'm sure the head honchos at Disney are still wishing they had been able to obtain the theme park rights).

I don't know a lot of the details of the "Wizarding World" other than it involves re-theming the Dueling Dragons coaster to be a part of it, and will include Hogsmeade village and part of the Hogwarts castle, but I'll bet it will be a very long-term (decades) draw for a lot of visitors for many years to come.

I can't say what the short or long term effect on WDW will be, but whatever impact it has, it's not going to fade away after just a few years. I see Harry as being a very long-term and wildly popular resident at IOA.

[Jeff G]

Wizarding World will undoubtedly have an impact on attendance at WDW both now and in the future.

Harry Potter is a world wide phenomenon which will draw interest and will pull people away from WDW. Disney made a huge bid to get the rights to HP because they knew it would be a draw. Here is how I look at it:

- Annual visitors like myself will be tempted to check out Wizarding World. Because the bulk of the ticket cost at Universal is the first day's cost we are more likely to spend a 2nd day checking out both parks resulting in not only one but two lost days of revenue from my family to WDW. We've been to the Orlando area 15 times and only once visited Universal. We never had an interest to go back but with the addition of Wizarding World and my kids like of the HP franchise it's very likely we will visit at least once and if done right more often. Our normal trip is 9-10 days in the Orlando area and always get 9-10 day park passes for WDW. Of those days many are repeating the same rides and attractions. I would have no problem spending one or two of those days somewhere else if done right. Since we spend all of our time now on WDW property a day or two away is lost revenue from food, to park passes to souvenirs. We will still stay on grounds but we will be loured away from Disney and some of our money that has always for to Disney will go somewhere else.

- First time visitors will have a new temptation. 1st is they don't have the love of WDW we have nor may not realize the scope of WDW. The HP draw will undoubtedly draw more to Universal for one and more than likely multiple days. This draw will also help fill the hotels at Universal and will swing patrons away from WDW.

-HP is a worldwide franchise and since Orlando has a great number of overseas visitors I'm sure many will make a point of it to stop at Universal to see HP.

Anyone who is pulled to Universal may stay at one of their hotels, will eat meals there and buy souvenirs which is lost revenue to Disney.

Disney has a great brand name and retains well but a whole new land at Universal with one of the hottest franchises going is going to create buzz and interest and will pull customers from WDW. To counter WDW needs to step up over the next few years to create a buzz of their own. Competition will only make Disney's Parks better which is a good thing.

[DizneyRox]

Am I wrong is understanding the HP Land is handful of rides (I think 3) a restaurant and a couple of gift shops? It's not a whole park, if I were to compare it to anything it would be Frontierland at MK.

The signature ride appears to be pretty interesting, but they are going to re-theme Dueling Dragons as the other big ride.

I don't see a lot of staying power here... Again, I think Universal will do a fantastic job theming this, etc, but factoring in the cost of tickets, transportation, time, etc, I just don't see how this can offer a lot of competition...

[Meteora]

And I have never heard anyone say, "Yeah, we're going on vacation to Universal again this year"

Strangely enough, I do know people like this. However, I agree with JPL that the issue will be less about people going to Orlando solely to visit Universal and more about people who previously would not have considered a day trip to Universal doing so now because of HP. People who might have previously bought a full Disney package without blinking might now seriously consider staying offsite or at a Universal property for a couple of nights, getting a few days fewer of Disney tickets, not doing the mealplan, etc.

I think the HP parklet is going to be a big, big deal to people who love HP. Whether it will remain a big deal down the road remains to be seen. But even if there were no rides, I could see people going to the park repeatedly just to have the experience of visiting "Hogsmeade" or the castle. Universal is creating more than a few HP-themed rides; they are creating a HP experience where people can come experience things they have only read about or seen in movies.

[antngoof89]

Strangely enough, I do know people like this. However, I agree with JPL that the issue will be less about people going to Orlando solely to visit Universal and more about people who previously would not have considered a day trip to Universal doing so now because of HP. People who might have previously bought a full Disney package without blinking might now seriously consider staying offsite or at a Universal property for a couple of nights, getting a few days fewer of Disney tickets, not doing the mealplan, etc.

I think the HP parklet is going to be a big, big deal to people who love HP. Whether it will remain a big deal down the road remains to be seen. But even if there were no rides, I could see people going to the park repeatedly just to have the experience of visiting "Hogsmeade" or the castle. Universal is creating more than a few HP-themed rides; they are creating a HP experience where people can come experience things they have only read about or seen in movies.

Ya I knew about that. I really would actually quite enjoy seeing the experience, I love HP books, not so much the movies as they are watered down versions of the books. One thing that I think may benefit Disney is the fact that I severly doubt Universal may be able to replicate great aspects of the books and films the way Disney does on many of their rides. It almost suffocates you when you ride a movie themed ride at Disney, the way I think it should be. HP books were great, the films, at least to me, are very poor versions of the books and who knows, the park may be a poor version of a combination of books and films.

Universal from what I've been told makes great thrill rides, but bad themed rides. Themes are what keeps people coming back to Disney, it's an experience with characters people grew up loving, thrills can be found anywhere, and those that love thrills generall go to new parks to find them. JMO

[Disney Doll]

We go to WDW every year. We stay on property and never leave Disney property for usually 6 days. I love HP and I will certainly want to check out US once the HP stuff is complete. We will not extend our vacation, but instead cut our Disney time short by a day or two. Normally I would have no desire to go to US, but for HP I will make an exception. Who knows if it will be enough to warrant more than one trip though. I imagine that for us it will be the initial couple of days in US then back to doing only WDW for future trips.

[joonyer]

. . . . One thing that I think may benefit Disney is the fact that I severely doubt Universal may be able to replicate great aspects of the books and films the way Disney does on many of their rides. It almost suffocates you when you ride a movie themed ride at Disney, the way I think it should be. HP books were great, the films, at least to me, are very poor versions of the books and who knows, the park may be a poor version of a combination of books and films.

Universal from what I've been told makes great thrill rides, but bad themed rides. Themes are what keeps people coming back to Disney, it's an experience with characters people grew up loving, thrills can be found anywhere, and those that love thrills generall go to new parks to find them. JMO

I think maybe you are underestimating Universal when it comes to some of their rides & attractions. Although overall, I don't think their parks are as magical as WDW's, Universal does an excellent job with several attractions.

I would say that Shrek, Simpsons, Men In Black and especially Mummy and Spiderman and are as good as any Disney Attractions at immersing you in the film or TV show. They are all very good attractions.

[NJGIRL]

I think maybe you are underestimating Universal when it comes to some of their rides & attractions. Although overall, I don't think their parks are as magical as WDW's, Universal does an excellent job with several attractions.

I would say that Shrek, Simpsons, Men In Black and especially Mummy and Spiderman and are as good as any Disney Attractions at immersing you in the film or TV show. They are all very good attractions.

I 100% agree with you. IMO Universal's newer attractions have outdone Disney's newer attractions. If you have not been on their themed rides you are missing out. My three favorite attractions in Florida are Spiderman, The Mummy and Rockin Rollercoaster. Two of those are at Universal.

Each vacation we spend 3 days at Universal between the two theme parks(and still don't get to do everything) and never get tired of their attractions. It's just like going to Disney time after time and doing the same rides or shows, even if you know what's going to happen it's still fun.

But getting back to HP, I think after all the money they spent to lure JKR there and after seeing what they have done with their newest attractions and knowing this is their chance to bring people into the parks that have never been they will not be dropping the ball on this. I expect this to be a homerun.

[PirateLover]

We are returning to Orlando next summer for our honeymoon. Note, I said "Orlando" not "Walt Disney World". WDW will be part of the plans, but as of now it's only looking like 4 days. The Wizarding World of Harry Potter is a major reason for this. This past June I took my 5th trip in about 5 years with my fiancee. We have always spent every day on Disney property. We talk about going to Universal, but in the end we never go. HP definitely pushed us over the edge, and if it is done right, I can totally see myself demanding to go every trip. It's more then just a "land" in a park, it's supposedly a total immersion. Have a Butterbeer at the Three Broomsticks in Hogsmeade Village, dare to step foot in the forbidden forrest, pick up some chocolate frogs in Honeydukes sweet shop... for fans of the books (and there's a gazillion of us out there), it's about as close as one can get to "living" in the Potter world.

[DizneyRox]

Universal from what I've been told makes great thrill rides, but bad themed rides. Themes are what keeps people coming back to Disney, it's an experience with characters people grew up loving, thrills can be found anywhere, and those that love thrills generall go to new parks to find them. JMO
This was true until Disney started outsourcing Imagineering. Many Imagineers lost their jobs and guess what? Universal hired them. Fancy that, shortly after IOA was in the works and is incredibly themed. I would say, ride for ride, IOA is on par or better themed than any Disney park.

The problem they have is it's just one park. Two if you count the Studios, but it's not quite a destination. I'm not sure if it ever will be... They would like it to be, but I just don't know... Given the choice, week at Disney or week at Universal, I suspect at least 95% of folks will pick the big D.

[iheartdisney]

Harry Potter will absolutely make a dent in Disney's attendance, and Disney better respond.

Frankly, I hope Disney doesn't respond. I'm all for less crowds at WDW.

[gueli]

This was true until Disney started outsourcing Imagineering. Many Imagineers lost their jobs and guess what? Universal hired them. Fancy that, shortly after IOA was in the works and is incredibly themed. I would say, ride for ride, IOA is on par or better themed than any Disney park.

The problem they have is it's just one park. Two if you count the Studios, but it's not quite a destination. I'm not sure if it ever will be... They would like it to be, but I just don't know... Given the choice, week at Disney or week at Universal, I suspect at least 95% of folks will pick the big D.

But the point is, many of us will split our week.
Thus it will affect Disneys bottom line.

Also keep in mind the deal US has with sea world. It gives more reason to stay out of WDW, and check out the other Parks. heck if i'm going to experience US I might want to go visit sea world. Again more money that disney is not going to see.
:mickey:

[DisneyFanaticDargon]

The problem they have is it's just one park. Two if you count the Studios, but it's not quite a destination. I'm not sure if it ever will be... They would like it to be, but I just don't know... Given the choice, week at Disney or week at Universal, I suspect at least 95% of folks will pick the big D.

Considering that Harry Potter is the first major addition to the park since it's inception, which was now 10 years ago, I can see why it's not exactly a destination. In actuality, the park hasn't changed drastically at all since it opened. More things have been taken out than left in.

Remember the original Poseidon attraction? The one that was much better than the original? How about Triceratops Encounter? The Toon Lagoon Amphitheater? And restaurants like Green Eggs & Ham?

IoA couldn't just benefit from Harry Potter, they NEED it. They haven't added anything this big since...ever.

EDIT: With Dueling Dragons being re-themed to HP, it looks like the days of this amazing coaster being a walk-on are over.

[Marceline]

I haven't gotten into HP....don't really plan to. Not that it doesn't seem interesting, I guess it just isn't my cup of tea.

SO for my family these new attractions have no draw. :humph: I am a devoted Disney purist. I like to glide in on ME for 10 days and stay put until ME takes me back to the real world.

I went to Universal Studios once in the 90's and I abhorred the experience. No magic for me there, none. Bigger, badder roller coasters at IOA won't give me what I love about WDW. Neither will HP. I never plan to give it a try again.....those are wasted hours that could be better spent on Disney property.:mickey::thumbsup:

[DisneyFanaticDargon]

I went to Universal Studios once in the 90's and I abhorred the experience. No magic for me there, none. Bigger, badder roller coasters at IOA won't give me what I love about WDW. Neither will HP. I never plan to give it a try again.....those are wasted hours that could be better spent on Disney property.:mickey::thumbsup:

Actually, IoA only has 2 full-size coasters. Most of the other rides are along the lines of Disney fare and can generally have a counterpart found somewhere at Disney. You should give it a try. It's actually a really nice park with some great theming.

[Ian]

Universal from what I've been told makes great thrill rides, but bad themed rides.This is really an odd myth, because it isn't really true. They do have some thrill rides, but the mix probably mirrors Disney's mix in terms of thrills vs. theme.

And in the last maybe 5 - 10 years or so, Universal has been doing as good if not a better job of building highly themed experiences. As someone already mentioned, largely because they hired all the Imagineers that Disney decided they didn't need anymore.

Thus far, it's not working out all that well for Disney.


We go to WDW every year. We stay on property and never leave Disney property for usually 6 days. I love HP and I will certainly want to check out US once the HP stuff is complete. We will not extend our vacation, but instead cut our Disney time short by a day or two.And this is exactly what Disney is terrified of. Their entire WDW experience is predicated on getting you on property, keeping you there for as long as humanly possible, and not letting you leave for any reason.

If people start cutting their WDW trips short by two or even just one day, that will make a major dent in their profit line.

[murphy1]

Disney attendance was way down from past Summers I have been. We walked on so many rides at peak hours at MK. We went over to Busch Gardens and Sea World due to deep discounts they offered as basically locals (FL and GA get good deals at these parks and Universal right now). Personally I think theme rides at Universal are good like ET and Cat in the Hat.

[DizneyRox]

Actually, IoA only has 2 full-size coasters. Most of the other rides are along the lines of Disney fare and can generally have a counterpart found somewhere at Disney. You should give it a try. It's actually a really nice park with some great theming.
I agree...

The Incredible Hulk is an awesome coaster, beats RnRC hands down. Spiderman is the best attraction in Central Florida, there is no equal. Popeye & Bluto's Bilge-Rat Barges makes Kali River Rapids look like a wading pool. Dudley Do-Right's Ripsaw Falls puts Splash Mountain to shame (although I will give you that the theming is light on this one), but the ride itself is fantastic! Jurassic Park River Adventure is great. I guess it's comparison would be either Dinosaur (They are pretty different) and maybe Everest.

In terms of shows, Poseidon's Fury was cool when I went, the water tunnel effect was great, and the show itself, there is nothing like it at Disney.

Those that haven't been to IoA and like excellently themed rides, you're missing out.

[Ian]

I agree...

The Incredible Hulk is an awesome coaster, beats RnRC hands down. Spiderman is the best attraction in Central Florida, there is no equal. Popeye & Bluto's Bilge-Rat Barges makes Kali River Rapids look like a wading pool. Dudley Do-Right's Ripsaw Falls puts Splash Mountain to shame (although I will give you that the theming is light on this one), but the ride itself is fantastic! Jurassic Park River Adventure is great. I guess it's comparison would be either Dinosaur (They are pretty different) and maybe Everest.

In terms of shows, Poseidon's Fury was cool when I went, the water tunnel effect was great, and the show itself, there is nothing like it at Disney.

Those that haven't been to IoA and like excellently themed rides, you're missing out.I agree that Poseidon was pretty cool. I was blown away by that the first time I saw it.

However, I thought that Jurassic Park was a pretty lame attraction, all things considered. For a theme that had such high potential, I was pretty disappointed that all it was was a few random dinos and some bland "thrills."

[Toad_Passenger]

I'm sure there are people out there that are bigger HP fans than my wife and I, but it's hard to imagine that they are out there! :D

That being said, on our next trip we are going to add 1-day to our WDW stay (so Disney is still getting our resort money). We're planning on driving over to IoA to see WWHP, but that's all we'll be doing there. In fact, based on what we know, we'll probably be able to do WWHP and be out of U.S. by the early evening. At that point we'll return to Disney property, and spend our money in their resorts & eateries.

I love the idea of immersing msyelf in the "Land of Potter," but once I have my picture at Hogwart's, played around in my robe & wand, and ate lunch at the Three Broomsticks, U.S. will have to try and convince me that I need to visit over and over again!

[DisneyFanaticDargon]

I agree that Poseidon was pretty cool. I was blown away by that the first time I saw it.

Which version did you see though? The now inferior version with that Darkenon guy or the original version where Poseidon was the bad guy (voiced brilliantly by Jeremy Irons) and your tour guide, the Storyteller, was actually Zeus?

The latter is MUCH better than the former by quite a long stretch.

[DizneyRox]

... However, I thought that Jurassic Park was a pretty lame attraction, all things considered. For a theme that had such high potential, I was pretty disappointed that all it was was a few random dinos and some bland "thrills."
What's the comparison at Disney? Just curious, I can't think of anything similar at Disney that's better. Kali?

I do agree it has potential, and I was thrown off that it's done so quick. There are some subtle hits though (when I last rode it) like the eaten Disney CM (shirt with nametag on it) that really cracked me up. It could be better you're right...

[Mfarquar]

I'm sure Disney is shaking in their boots financially. It makes one question the timing on the supposed "leaked" Fantasy Land rehab. What better to battle Potter than some serious princesses (who btw, bring in 4 BILLION annually on their merchandise alone). Call me jaded, but regardless of whether or not the restructuring happens (or in what capacity/to what level), Disney must be loving the hype.

I think we should all expect some major announcements about upcoming E-Ticket attractions soon (probably something in Animal Kingdom as well as MK).

Universal numbers have been consistently down over the past few years, but they have been able to do very well because guest spending is up (making for a nice profit). Universal must be drooling over the idea of increased guest spending + additional attendance due to Potter.

I visit Universal/IoA every year for HHNs and the awesome coasters (can't wait for Rip Ride & Rock It). I don't know if one "land" could ever be enough to change the balance of things between Universal and Disney. For example, I would never be inclined to visit IoA for Harry Potter. I'll stop by to see what all the fuss is about, but it won't be one of my priorities when visiting the park.

I agree with many of the previous posters - Universal has done recent themeing very well. However, I feel that they tend to under-develop areas (IoA is a great example of this). Harry Potter could very well peak, and then level out. No doubt, it will make a dent and be great insurance that Universal will be able to keep it's attendance numbers up. However, I don't know if this is something that will last forever. Unless, of course, Universal continually adds to it. There's no doubt that HP fans will want more!

P.S. I couldn't agree more about JP being lame. It's the poor man's scary Splash Mountain (or is that Dudley Do Right? haha)

[NJGIRL]

Universal numbers have been consistently down over the past few years, but they have been able to do very well because guest spending is up (making for a nice profit). Universal must be drooling over the idea of increased guest spending + additional attendance due to Potter.

It's funny that you mentioned this because I just heard on a pod cast last week that they are doing very well and their profits are up. They don't even have any hotel deals going on like Disney. I think that City Walk must do very well. It is always crowded when we are there. I agree with you on the spending too. My son who is only 11 doesn't want to buy any disney character stuff but take him to Universal and there is the Simsons, MIB, Jurassic Park, Dueling Dragons, The Mummy. Now these are all things that he will buy into.

[lockedoutlogic]

hmmm....let me think about this:


No.....that about covers it

[Ian]

I love the idea of immersing msyelf in the "Land of Potter," but once I have my picture at Hogwart's, played around in my robe & wand, and ate lunch at the Three Broomsticks, U.S. will have to try and convince me that I need to visit over and over again!I think you'll be surprised. Unless you're just a hardcore Disney fan and refuse to embrace other theme parks I bet you'll find yourself liking what US has to offer.


Which version did you see though?I saw the original.

[TiggeRia]

I, for one, am a complete Harry Potter addict and am absolutely thrilled about the opening of Harry Potter in US. My HP addiction is actually right up there with my Disney addiction, which I must say started well after I became hooked on Harry.

I will be making the trek down to see it when it opens, probably around the usual time I make a week long trip to WDW. I will most likely cut my visit to Disney parks by two days and would seriously consider staying in a US resort for those two days.

And I think that this "attraction" will have appeal for a long time to come. I still reread all the books several times a year, watch the movies frequently, and have tons of collectors items (and I am a young adult, hopefully with lots of years to travel in the future!) I don't see my love of HP dying down, much like my love of DW has not abated since I will have visited almost ten times in four years--having visited the same attractions, over and over. Also, I believe under the contract US has to include bits from the last two movies, which will be coming out after this section of the park opens so there will be updates. If they handle this right, it could be a goldmine.

[DisneyFanaticDargon]

What's the comparison at Disney? Just curious, I can't think of anything similar at Disney that's better. Kali?

I'd say Dinosaur but only because the theme is the same, despite the fact that the ride systems are different. However, JP is better because it is a much more recognizable property and the ride itself is actually very well thought-through.

Dinosaur is a loud, mostly dark, poorly put-together attraction that shames the original ride its ride system was taken from, Indiana Jones. I would never consider Dinosaur to be better than Jurassic Park, OR Indiana Jones. In fact, it seems like when they were building Dinosaur they just ran out of money halfway through and instead turned off the lights.

[Queen Stephanie]

Disney is where the magic is...the real magic. I am not concerned about HP, Universal or the tooth fairy! I'm hard-core Disney all the way!:cool:

[Marceline]

Disney is where the magic is...the real magic. I am not concerned about HP, Universal or the tooth fairy! I'm hard-core Disney all the way!:cool:

Yup yup yup! Couldn't agree more.

Disney isn't even about rides for me. It's about the foundation, the intention, the vision behind it all. I am only interested in Orlando for Walt's Wonderful World. :balloon:

[gueli]

But isn't the question - will it have an impact on disney?

While there are many people who say "not me, I love disney"- there are a great number of people who are saying
"yes it will have an impact. I Love Disney, but I will want to check it out"

:mickey:

[Toad_Passenger]

I think you'll be surprised. Unless you're just a hardcore Disney fan and refuse to embrace other theme parks I bet you'll find yourself liking what US has to offer.


I love all sorts of theme parks, Busch Gardens (Williamsburg) is one of my all-time favorites. I have been to U.S. on multiple occasions, and I was left less than impressed.

It just doesn't have the "flow" that other parks have. And, while the individual themes seem to work, there is no "overall" theme to U.S. that brings the park together. WDW & Busch Gardens have a main theme that is then represented through all of their "lands." U.S. just feels like a bunch of small theme parks thrown on the same land.

[Ian]

Disney is where the magic is...the real magic. I am not concerned about HP, Universal or the tooth fairy! I'm hard-core Disney all the way!:cool:


Yup yup yup! Couldn't agree more.

Disney isn't even about rides for me. It's about the foundation, the intention, the vision behind it all. I am only interested in Orlando for Walt's Wonderful World. :balloon:Right, but in fairness neither one of you appear to like Harry Potter at all, so your attendance at Disney isn't going to be affected by the creation of a land at a rival theme park in which you have no interest.

The folks Disney is concerned about losing are the 10 million or so folks who are hardcore Harry Potter fans.

[TheVBs]

I love Harry Potter and would definitely want to check out what US does. However, I would not cut a WDW visit short to do it. I wouldn't make a special trip down for it either, but maybe plan a visit when we're visiting family.

I've heard a lot of people say that US is nice, but if you expect WDW standards, you're going to be disappointed. I would go there with an open mind though and try to enjoy it for what it is. I agree with a PP though, for me, Disney is not about just rides, it's about a whole experience. :mickey:

[antngoof89]

Ya know, I saw the Harry Potter movie recently and although I love the books, I am not impressed with the movies. I feel like the more HP is mass produced, the more it's watered down. Harry Potter enthusiasts usually are disgusted by the movies as well, at least those I know. I feel like the magic of Harry Potter won't be enough to bring "magic" to US like Disney would've been able to do with it. Some people may be glad that the movies weren't Disneyfied, but I sure would've liked to see the parklett made by Disney.

I just don't know if this park will sparkle like US thinks it will.

[Kathy Jetson]

I am a hardcore disney fan and wanted to put off going to IOA for as long as possible I think ds will like their rides better and want to spend more time there and get bored with disney. But with the addition of HP we will be taking a day from our 2010 vacation to go to IOA and probably stay 1 night at one of there hotels to get front of the access and I suspect we will go there at least 1 day from every disney vacation from then on.

[antngoof89]

I am a hardcore disney fan and wanted to put off going to IOA for as long as possible I think ds will like their rides better and want to spend more time there and get bored with disney. But with the addition of HP we will be taking a day from our 2010 vacation to go to IOA and probably stay 1 night at one of there hotels to get front of the access and I suspect we will go there at least 1 day from every disney vacation from then on.


As was said earlier, this is only a couple of hardcore Disney fans wanteing to try a new vacation place, not everyone will be won over... Disney has the magic and everyone craves it at least once in their life

[DisneyFanaticDargon]

Harry Potter enthusiasts usually are disgusted by the movies as well, at least those I know.

Maybe the purists with unrealistic expectations. They go in expecting to see a verbatim adaptation and are always disappointed. You can't ever expect a book to translate perfectly to film because things that work in literature don't always work on screen. Not to mention if they included EVERYTHING, especially with the increasing length of the books as they progress through the series, the films could easily be upwards of four hours.

I, personally, enjoyed the 6th film, and considering how 3, 4, and 5 were not as faithful (again, thanks to the length of those books), I thought they did a fantastic job including as much as they possibly could.

The 7th film, being a 2 part film, will undoubtedly be the most faithful adaptation.

[Polynesian Dweller]

After reading the posts, I think people need to remember the word parklette. That's what it will be. We are not talking something the size of MK or DHS but a small parkette that will be on the same scale of the other IOA parklettes, some food places, perhaps a couple of lesser attractions and 1 main ride. The pictures I've seen show the area to be fairly small. So we are not talking a half day area much less a full day.

So, yes initially a lot of HP fans will go there and there will be an initial impact from curiosity etc, But long term is what counts and the area just isn't big enough to have the kind of long term impact that would hurt Disney. Besides, Disney is truly a destination and all of U.S. simply isn't big enough for that.

[gueli]

After reading the posts, I think people need to remember the word parklette. That's what it will be. We are not talking something the size of MK or DHS but a small parkette that will be on the same scale of the other IOA parklettes, some food places, perhaps a couple of lesser attractions and 1 main ride. The pictures I've seen show the area to be fairly small. So we are not talking a half day area much less a full day.

So, yes initially a lot of HP fans will go there and there will be an initial impact from curiosity etc, But long term is what counts and the area just isn't big enough to have the kind of long term impact that would hurt Disney. Besides, Disney is truly a destination and all of U.S. simply isn't big enough for that.

So is your answer yes it will have an impact ?

I agree about it not being an entire destination. And many here will choose not to go. But I think it will have an impact, even if it makes disney build/ refurbish a number of things.
:mickey:

[DisneyFanaticDargon]

The pictures I've seen show the area to be fairly small.

The pictures you've seen are concept art, they're not indicative of the actual area. Universal has stated multiple times that the Harry Potter section will not only be considered it's own portion of the park (instead of part of an existing island), but it will be on par in size with the other current islands in the park, which are quite large.

This is akin to adding a whole new full-blown land to Magic Kingdom.

[Polynesian Dweller]

The pictures you've seen are concept art, they're not indicative of the actual area. Universal has stated multiple times that the Harry Potter section will not only be considered it's own portion of the park (instead of part of an existing island), but it will be on par in size with the other current islands in the park, which are quite large.

This is akin to adding a whole new full-blown land to Magic Kingdom.

Actually, real construction pictures not concept art is what I've seen. The islands really aren't very large and if all you had was tomorrowland would that be the equivalent of MK, not really.

[Ian]

The question really is ... will it be good enough and enough of a draw to bring people back. That's what's going to determine the impact it has on Disney.

If people go and the response is, "Gee, that was cool. I'll come back in five years and see what they've added on to it." then Disney has nothing to worry about.

But if it's well done, and people love it, and the response is more like, "WOW!! I gotta come back and do this again!!!" then Disney may have something to worry about.

Parklette/full park, Disney magic/no Disney magic ... those are basically irrelevant issues. The bottom line is there are tens of millions of Harry Potter fans, some number of whom are also Disney fans, and if the HP area at US is well executed and highly entertaining there's no way it can't have an impact on Disney World attendance.

[fielin]

Most of the answers on this thread are written under the belief that most people go to Florida once every year... Which does not seem to be the case to me.

I think most people go to disneyworld once in a while, or even once in a lifetime. This, I think is the bulk of Disney customers.

Let's say there are 50% 'once in a while' customers at all time in Disneyworld. And let's say all those people suddenly have the choice of spending one day out of Disneyworld to see HP instead of staying on site.

Let's say 50% of these people decide to spend one day at HP during their DisneyWorld vacation because they will not get the chance before they come back, which might be 10 years from now, or even never.

Isn't it a huge loss for Disney ?

(And honestly, I don't think there is anything Disney can do to prevent it.)

[DisneyFanaticDargon]

Most of the answers on this thread are written under the belief that most people go to Florida once every year... Which does not seem to be the case to me.

I think most people go to disneyworld once in a while, or even once in a lifetime. This, I think is the bulk of Disney customers.

Without going into too much numbers or detail, I have to disagree. I think working there you'd find that the ratio of repeat to first-time visitors is much more in favor of repeat visitors, especially those that come once or multiple times per year.

[LauraByTheSea]

I don't think there is a force in this world, barring a natural disaster that took off a chunk of the planet, that could hurt Disney that much that they would panic. I'm sure they take notice every time a phenomenon like HP comes along, but will it effect them so much anyone would notice? I doubt it... I will admit that one - I've never been to US and two - I don't really like HP, so I could be a teeny bit biased, but really, Disney is a lifestyle, not just a theme park, and I think that it would take more than some re-themeing for them to worry too much...

[Ian]

Without going into too much numbers or detail, I have to disagree. I think working there you'd find that the ratio of repeat to first-time visitors is much more in favor of repeat visitors, especially those that come once or multiple times per year.I agree. I've always heard that the bulk of Disney World guests at any given time are repeat visitors.


I don't think there is a force in this world, barring a natural disaster that took off a chunk of the planet, that could hurt Disney that much that they would panic. I'm sure they take notice every time a phenomenon like HP comes along, but will it effect them so much anyone would notice? I doubt it... I will admit that one - I've never been to US and two - I don't really like HP, so I could be a teeny bit biased, but really, Disney is a lifestyle, not just a theme park, and I think that it would take more than some re-themeing for them to worry too much...I think you dramatically underestimate how much attention Disney pays to the competition.

They certainly don't show it outwardly, but trust me ... I'm quite certain HP has them very nervous. They operate on a fairly thin margin of error in terms of their ability to tolerate attendance declines (see Q1 2009 results for further proof), so even a modest reduction in attendance or days spent on property would definitely affect them.

You can tell that just from what's happening right now. Their attendance numbers aren't really off that significantly (under 10% from last year, I think), but look at all the cutbacks they've implemented just to cover that little shortfall.

[JPL]

Let's just take a look at the numbers hypothetically.

Let's say 10 Million people choose to visit HP land and spend one less day at WDW because of it. Just some possible spending numbers included.

1 day of admission assuming it's the 7th day of a hopper about $3 for the day Disney lost $30 Million

1 Counter sevice lunch average around $9 another $90 Million lost

Snacks & Drinks add another $7 another $70 Million lost

Souvenir T-shirt Bought at US Instead of WDW $20 another $200 Million lost

It adds up pretty quickly!
That's $390 lost not taking into account that with the admission to Universal people will have less money to spend during their time at WDW. One Day 1 park admission is currently $77 for adults that could be another potential $770 Million lost for Disney assuming people plan on spending one day at Universal. So to say it won't have a large effect on Disney doesn't make much sense. Of course this is all speculative and based on Gross spending not profit margin but still a large chunk of change.

[Scar]

I haven't read all the threads so forgive me if this has been brought up.

Will Disney lose business... yes. But it's also possible they may gain buisness, perhaps enough to offset the loss.

There may be many HP families out there that had no desire to go to Florida. Now they are going to go specifically for HP. If they stay a week, they will almost certainly spend a few days at WDW because as we all know, US is no week long resort.

[Scar]

Oh, and let me just add...

Even if my theory is correct, that by no means allows Disney to sit back and do nothing. They have to give a reason to those people to want to say "Wow, Disney has really improved. We should come here for a week next year."

[dizneyfreek]

After reading some of the thread on another site about HP land, I was just wondering if anyone here believes it's going to make a huge impact on Disney attendance or not?

Screamscape also released something recently rumouring several major additions being "released" through Disney press releases in the near future.

I think the only thing that would happen will be more Pixar rides in HS since Pixar has put out several popular films, a probable rehab of FL and maybe some new technology that is state of the art at Epcot. There were a lot of Walls up at Epcot when I was last there as well as some walls at the Magic Kingdom, but I don't know if there will be anything updated at AK.

I doubt HP will have a huge impact on Disney attendance seeing as many guests go to both parks during their visits to Florida and a lot of people I know, do NOT like US as much as Disney. There is no magic.

What do you guys think?

It will make an impact for the first couple of years. Just look at how popular the books and the movies are. If people don't believe me, ask yourself this question..... Will attendance rise at Universal Studios when Harry Potter section opens up?
Of course it will. People will still go to Disney but for a shortened amount of time. I'm sure theres a lot of disney fans that are Harry Potter fans.

[DisneyFanaticDargon]

JPL, your breakdown was quite interesting! It also didn't even take into consideration the fact that Disney has to cover their expenses as well, and whats left is the profit. If they lose $390,000,000 from just 10,000,000 people not visiting, that's the loss they get in addition to the losses they have already which are just part of covering their expenses. So in actuality, they would lose more than that.

[DizneyFreak2002]

My opinion.. No, Disney will not lose business over this... This is the same kind of hype that was over IOA.. And what happened?? Didn't make any kind of dent what so ever...

By the way, Potter's ride is behind schedule... Having issues with the arm liking to hold onto the car... At least, that is what some who "are in the know" are saying...

[CaptainSad]

I think some of you are way off on your thinking about HP. Yes there may be a bump. But it won't make a dent to WDW. First US is a two park/Six Flags type of park. It only has a couple of Hotels and no land to expand. Unless US can buy all the land around itself it will never beat WDW. Yes Disney needs to update a lot to keep ahead. It won't take that much from what I have heard though the Grapevine. There are plans on going right now that will keep WDW ahead for the next decade. Just wait for the upcoming announcement in the coming months for the 40th. Some you have already seen and some that haven't been released yet. And yes these things will all be ready in time for the 40th.

I for one have never been to US in the 25 times I've been to Disney. I have a Six Flags here in New England. I have been to Sea World once and that is all I needed. Went to Wet N Wild once. Does not even compare with Blizzard Beach or Typhoon Lagoon. Disney has so much to offer. I never leave the property.

[CaptainSad]

Let's just take a look at the numbers hypothetically.

Let's say 10 Million people choose to visit HP land and spend one less day at WDW because of it. Just some possible spending numbers included.

1 day of admission assuming it's the 7th day of a hopper about $3 for the day Disney lost $30 Million

1 Counter sevice lunch average around $9 another $90 Million lost

Snacks & Drinks add another $7 another $70 Million lost

Souvenir T-shirt Bought at US Instead of WDW $20 another $200 Million lost

It adds up pretty quickly!
That's $390 lost not taking into account that with the admission to Universal people will have less money to spend during their time at WDW. One Day 1 park admission is currently $77 for adults that could be another potential $770 Million lost for Disney assuming people plan on spending one day at Universal. So to say it won't have a large effect on Disney doesn't make much sense. Of course this is all speculative and based on Gross spending not profit margin but still a large chunk of change.

Sorry those figures don't fly...
First, US will never top 10 million a year in attendance.

Here is where they ranked in 2008.
1. Magic Kingdom 17 Million
2. Disneyland 14.7 Million
3. Tokyo DL 14.2 Million
4. DL Paris 12.6 Million
5. Tokyo Disney Sea 12.4 Million
6. EPCOT 10.9 Million
7. DHS 9.6 Million
8. Animal Kingdom 9.54 Million
9. US Japan 8.3 Million
10. Everland 6.6 Million
11. US Florida 6.3 Million


US Florida at it's current state could not handle 10 Million visits. Most people will still go to WDW for there 1-2-3-4-5 or what ever length of stay they have. Some will cut a day or two and a lot will add a day or two. In the long run it will not hurt WDW. Even I can be safe to say HP will not add 3.7 Million in attendance at US. No ride in any Theme park will or has ever added that much in attendance.

[Lakin]

I really don't think it's going to make that much of an impact. And I don't see why a handful of HP themed rides should make people want to go to Universal instead of Disney World.

[JPL]

Sorry those figures don't fly...
First, US will never top 10 million a year in attendance.



US Florida at it's current state could not handle 10 Million visits. Most people will still go to WDW for there 1-2-3-4-5 or what ever length of stay they have. Some will cut a day or two and a lot will add a day or two. In the long run it will not hurt WDW. Even I can be safe to say HP will not add 3.7 Million in attendance at US. No ride in any Theme park will or has ever added that much in attendance.

I never said over a year I was just using the number of 10 Million given earlier in the thread regarding HP fans. Regardless if there is a franchise that can increase attendance dramatically it's HP. The point of the post was simply to show how quickly the money adds up. And never say never when it comes to pop culture. And actually when you take the IOA numbers into acount I believe they are handling close to 10 million people a year between the 2 parks.

[BMan62]

I haven't read all the threads so forgive me if this has been brought up.

Will Disney lose business... yes. But it's also possible they may gain buisness, perhaps enough to offset the loss.

There may be many HP families out there that had no desire to go to Florida. Now they are going to go specifically for HP. If they stay a week, they will almost certainly spend a few days at WDW because as we all know, US is no week long resort.

I was wondering if anyone else was going to look at that side of the coin. From the get-go, my thought was that this might just be the justification for some to make the trip to Orlando and take in both HP (US) and WDW. Other than people in the central Florida region, it would be more financially feasible to make a bigger trip to visit both establishments on one trip.

[NJGIRL]

I think it's funny when people compare Universal to Six Flags. If you have ever been there you know that comparision is totally inaccurate. Universal's hotels are superior to Disneys, all three are four star hotels. And yes Universal is only a half a day park if you choose to skip over 50% of the attractions there.

[DisneyFanaticDargon]

And yes Universal is only a half a day park if you choose to skip over 50% of the attractions there.

I've managed to hit every attraction in both parks in one day during the off-season.

[Ian]

I think it's funny when people compare Universal to Six Flags. If you have ever been there you know that comparision is totally inaccurate.I agree totally. I'm not the biggest Universal fan out there, but even I'll readily admit that their parks are head and shoulders better than a Six Flags. Most of their attractions (most, not all) either meet or exceed Disney standards in terms of the theming and experience. I know a lot of people complain that the parks aren't as clean and the staff isn't as friendly, but I haven't really been there enough to comment on that aspect. Everything seemed fine to me, though, and let's face it ... Disney's cleanliness and CM quality ain't what it used to be.

Again ... I really think some people are dramatically undervaluing just how much of a draw the HP franchise is. It's tough to find exact numbers, but from what I can tell this is a franchise that has sold close to one billion books (that's "Billion" with a "b").

If they were opening a Star Trek section of the park, would people be so quick to dismiss it? HP is bigger than Star Trek. BIGGER.

[iluvdumbo]

First off, I'm a HUGE Harry Potter fan/Disney fan! :mickey:

Second, I want to go and see this area of the park, but I'm not a huge roller coaster fan, so I will probably just end up going for like a day for every 5 years-ish.

Nothing can beat Disney World though. I will still go to it, but maybe I will just ask my mom to stay another day just to go to HP Park and rent a car or my aunt comes up from Port St. Lucie to meet up with us, so maybe she would just drive us.

I'm excited for this park, but I don't think that it will effect Disney that much, maybe just for the first 6 months that it's open, then it will probably get calmer and more people will go back to what they normally do in the Disney Parks.

Does anyone know when in 2010 this is opening by the way?

[starryeyes21]

My husband and I included Universal Studios and Islands of Adventure when we went to Orlando for our honeymoon in 2008. I am a huge Disney fan and so is my husband but I also love Universal Orlando. We stayed on Universal's property and were extremely satisfied. I had never been to the hotels before and wasn't sure what to expect. Let me tell you it was a great experience. We stayed at Portofino Bay and were blown away by the attention to detail, the costumer service, and the high quality of the room. The staff was cordial and extremely helpful, housekeeping was impeccable, and the atmosphere, in general, was to die for.

Universal did everything right. They strove for excellence. Unfortunately, I think Disney sits back on its laurels far too much. Our experience at Disney was no where near as satisfying as our stay at Universal. Our room at the Wilderness Lodge was small and dingy. When complaints were made they were ignored. Mousekeeping was sub-standard and our room was barely touched.

What does this have to do with Harry Potter? I discovered all of this about Universal, almost, by accident. My husband and I decided that since we were spending two full days at Universal that we should stay on the property. How many more people will fall in love with Universal this way? Yes, they may draw people away with Harry Potter Land but they may keep them by exhibiting superior service, beautiful hotels, and wonderful theming.

I think that Universal's biggest problem is that their parks are not for small children. There is, almost, nothing for them to do. Unless you wish to spend your day spinning around on E.T. or in Seuss Landing. With and small handful of exceptions children are largely ignored. We were there in October and there were signs and props for Halloween Horror Nights everywhere. You would expect this scary attraction to be contained within Universal Studios but it even spilled out into City Walk. Many an anxious child was ushered out of City Walk in order to be spared the sight of Bloody Mary crashing through her evil mirror.

Somehow I think that Universal may fail in this respect again and theme the Harry Potter rides for tweens, teens, and adults. Where does that leave your seven year old who loves the books? Wandering around in Hogsmeade buying chocolate frogs. Kinda sad.

Will Disney lose business.....yes. Will it make a huge impact...can't say. Universal has excellent service and theming because it has to in order to compete. Disney, fearing nobody has allowed service, and attention to its parks to fall by the wayside. I would hope that Harry Potter would force Disney to begin moving forward to update the parks.

[Ian]

My husband and I included Universal Studios and Islands of Adventure when we went to Orlando for our honeymoon in 2008. I am a huge Disney fan and so is my husband but I also love Universal Orlando. We stayed on Universal's property and were extremely satisfied. I had never been to the hotels before and wasn't sure what to expect. Let me tell you it was a great experience. We stayed at Portofino Bay and were blown away by the attention to detail, the costumer service, and the high quality of the room. The staff was cordial and extremely helpful, housekeeping was impeccable, and the atmosphere, in general, was to die for.

Universal did everything right. They strove for excellence. Unfortunately, I think Disney sits back on its laurels far too much. Our experience at Disney was no where near as satisfying as our stay at Universal. Our room at the Wilderness Lodge was small and dingy. When complaints were made they were ignored. Mousekeeping was sub-standard and our room was barely touched.

What does this have to do with Harry Potter? I discovered all of this about Universal, almost, by accident. My husband and I decided that since we were spending two full days at Universal that we should stay on the property. How many more people will fall in love with Universal this way? Yes, they may draw people away with Harry Potter Land but they may keep them by exhibiting superior service, beautiful hotels, and wonderful theming.And THIS, my dear INTERCOTTERS, is EXACTLY what Disney is worried about and EXACTLY why they need to step things up.

They're not dumb. They know they've been coasting for a number of years, because they've been largely unchallenged. IMO, they've been using this time to milk as much cash as possible out of WDW.

But that time has passed and, assuming the folks running the show have even the smallest clue, they'll have to react to HP.

[NJGIRL]

My husband and I included Universal Studios and Islands of Adventure when we went to Orlando for our honeymoon in 2008. I am a huge Disney fan and so is my husband but I also love Universal Orlando. We stayed on Universal's property and were extremely satisfied. I had never been to the hotels before and wasn't sure what to expect. Let me tell you it was a great experience. We stayed at Portofino Bay and were blown away by the attention to detail, the costumer service, and the high quality of the room. The staff was cordial and extremely helpful, housekeeping was impeccable, and the atmosphere, in general, was to die for.

Universal did everything right. They strove for excellence. Unfortunately, I think Disney sits back on its laurels far too much. Our experience at Disney was no where near as satisfying as our stay at Universal. Our room at the Wilderness Lodge was small and dingy. When complaints were made they were ignored. Mousekeeping was sub-standard and our room was barely touched.

What does this have to do with Harry Potter? I discovered all of this about Universal, almost, by accident. My husband and I decided that since we were spending two full days at Universal that we should stay on the property. How many more people will fall in love with Universal this way? Yes, they may draw people away with Harry Potter Land but they may keep them by exhibiting superior service, beautiful hotels, and wonderful theming.

I love your post. These are my feelings exactly. As I said before Universal has the equipment (superior hotels and superior attractions) but hasn't figured out how to use it yet. And I do agree with you about the small children. The park is more geared to preteens thur adults.

I still can't figure out how anyone can go to EVERY attraction in both parks in one day. We go during the off season and must take two days for both parks and that is still NOT hitting each attraction.

[JabberJaws]

I am sure others have touched on this, but I don't think Disney will "lose" any attendance due to this. IOA will no doubt gain attendance, but I don't think that will correlate to Disney losing attendance.

Really the only impact I could see this having is that people will may drop a 4th or 5th day in the parks to hit up IOA to do the Potter land. So in that sense I guess it could have some potential impact, but IMO not enough to do much damage.

Disney freaked back when Uni was getting ready to open IOA because of the great attractions and themeing that they were putting into it (IOA is a really cool park by the by). So when they were building DAK, the beastly kingdom theme/idea was held at the gates, ready to be launched if IOA put a dent into Disney attendance.

IOA did not have the impact that they (Disney Mgmt) thought, so BK was put on the back burners. You can see the dragon in the entry way of DAK as well as the cave (that used to spout smoke) as part of the now defunct boat ride as things to tie in the animals of fantasy idea (AKA Beastly Kingdom).

So, I would look to WDI to have several sets of plans for the MK redesign (as well as some other big concepts). If HP land has a big impact, I would imagine that disney upper mgmt might throw some more money to WDI to let them do more to counteract. If HP land has a similar small impact that IOA had, I would look for them to stick to a more basic overhaul.

[Hammer]

And THIS, my dear INTERCOTTERS, is EXACTLY what Disney is worried about and EXACTLY why they need to step things up.

They're not dumb. They know they've been coasting for a number of years, because they've been largely unchallenged. IMO, they've been using this time to milk as much cash as possible out of WDW.

But that time has passed and, assuming the folks running the show have even the smallest clue, they'll have to react to HP.

Exactly. Please see my post in the new resort thread in this forum. I address the same thing with regards to Deluxe resorts and the impact the Four Seasons will have. Disney needs to improve because for many people, they want more than pixie dust.

[DizneyFreak2002]

And THIS, my dear INTERCOTTERS, is EXACTLY what Disney is worried about and EXACTLY why they need to step things up.

They're not dumb. They know they've been coasting for a number of years, because they've been largely unchallenged. IMO, they've been using this time to milk as much cash as possible out of WDW.

But that time has passed and, assuming the folks running the show have even the smallest clue, they'll have to react to HP.

And this, my dear Ian, is why TDO has lost its power in the grand scheme of things... Corporate knew they were sitting on there hands while Universal was building the most talked about ride in theme park business... That is why the Fantasyland make over is being done inspite of TDO, not because of it... And that, my friend, is why you will see Star Tours 2.0, Monsters Inc coaster/dark ride in DHS... IImagination 4.0.. And a new land in DAK (sooner than we all think)...

[Ian]

Honestly, we better. I mean, for the most part the parks have been substantively untouched in the last 10 years or so.

And yes ... before some Disney Defender comes along and tells me that they added 6 parades, 14 character meet and greets, 4 stage shows, and the Kim Possible thing ... I know. They also added Soarin', Mission: Space, Test Track, Expedition Everest, and Toy Story Mania.

But to add those attractions, they also closed Kitchen Kabaret, World of Motion, Horizons, and Who Wants to Be a Millionaire.

Net gain in attractions? 1.

[TheVBs]

I think starryeyes21 mentioned the biggest reason why we've yet to visit US. There's hardly anything there for small children. It wouldn't really be worth cutting into a Disney trip for us.

[mook3y]

I think Harry Potter will have the hard core Disney fans that have refused to go to Universal in the past try it out. I do not think that Disney will lose attendence because of Harry Potter but I do think it will bring many more people to Universal. I personally love Universal, I love the atmosphere there. Is it the same as Disney....no it is much different but not in a bad way. I like both places equally the same and almost get the feeling that some people feel they are being disloyal to Disney if they like Universal. Just my opinion but I don't think Disney will lose attendence because of Harry Potter.

Was going to pipe in with my 2 cents, but... you put it as well as I could.

I have yet to go to Universal Florida, but have been to US Hollywood a lot of times.

Definately would break away from WDW for a day to go check it out now though.

But, WDW wont lose any $$$ from me. I will just spend more at Universal. :)

[xipetotec]

This was true until Disney started outsourcing Imagineering. Many Imagineers lost their jobs and guess what? Universal hired them. Fancy that, shortly after IOA was in the works and is incredibly themed.



Well that's not universally true ( no pun intended ). The guy who spearheaded the Wizarding World project now works for Disney Imagineering. ( I forget his name, but it was in a report about Wizarding World )

[xipetotec]

I think starryeyes21 mentioned the biggest reason why we've yet to visit US. There's hardly anything there for small children. It wouldn't really be worth cutting into a Disney trip for us.

I don't know about that. There's Seuss Landing, there's the whole area with the Curious george stuff. The Jurassic Park area has some kid friendly rides. I have taken my small children and we all had a great time. And this coming from a Disney fanatic here.

[Jeff G]

My husband and I included Universal Studios and Islands of Adventure when we went to Orlando for our honeymoon in 2008. I am a huge Disney fan and so is my husband but I also love Universal Orlando. We stayed on Universal's property and were extremely satisfied. I had never been to the hotels before and wasn't sure what to expect. Let me tell you it was a great experience. We stayed at Portofino Bay and were blown away by the attention to detail, the costumer service, and the high quality of the room. The staff was cordial and extremely helpful, housekeeping was impeccable, and the atmosphere, in general, was to die for.

Universal did everything right. They strove for excellence. Unfortunately, I think Disney sits back on its laurels far too much. Our experience at Disney was no where near as satisfying as our stay at Universal. Our room at the Wilderness Lodge was small and dingy. When complaints were made they were ignored. Mousekeeping was sub-standard and our room was barely touched.

What does this have to do with Harry Potter? I discovered all of this about Universal, almost, by accident. My husband and I decided that since we were spending two full days at Universal that we should stay on the property. How many more people will fall in love with Universal this way? Yes, they may draw people away with Harry Potter Land but they may keep them by exhibiting superior service, beautiful hotels, and wonderful theming.

I think that Universal's biggest problem is that their parks are not for small children. There is, almost, nothing for them to do. Unless you wish to spend your day spinning around on E.T. or in Seuss Landing. With and small handful of exceptions children are largely ignored. We were there in October and there were signs and props for Halloween Horror Nights everywhere. You would expect this scary attraction to be contained within Universal Studios but it even spilled out into City Walk. Many an anxious child was ushered out of City Walk in order to be spared the sight of Bloody Mary crashing through her evil mirror.

Somehow I think that Universal may fail in this respect again and theme the Harry Potter rides for tweens, teens, and adults. Where does that leave your seven year old who loves the books? Wandering around in Hogsmeade buying chocolate frogs. Kinda sad.

Will Disney lose business.....yes. Will it make a huge impact...can't say. Universal has excellent service and theming because it has to in order to compete. Disney, fearing nobody has allowed service, and attention to its parks to fall by the wayside. I would hope that Harry Potter would force Disney to begin moving forward to update the parks.

Very well said. HP will draw people who never before had an interest in US and based on the above comments there are many who may like what they find.


Was going to pipe in with my 2 cents, but... you put it as well as I could.

I have yet to go to Universal Florida, but have been to US Hollywood a lot of times.

Definately would break away from WDW for a day to go check it out now though.

But, WDW wont lose any $$$ from me. I will just spend more at Universal. :)

This is a prevailing comment, "we may check it out once but Disney won't loose". If you break away from WDW for even just one day where you would have you normally spent on grounds that is lost revnue opportunity for Disney. Most people travel on a budget. If some of the funds from that budget are spent at US that is money not spent at WDW.

Just reading through this post there are a lot more poeple saying they may give US a try with HP than saying it's WDW or bust and this is on a discussion board where we have more DIsney addicts than average. Look at the buzz HP is drumming up on a Disney based web site, I can't imagine this not having an impact on Disney.

[NJGIRL]

I don't know about that. There's Seuss Landing, there's the whole area with the Curious george stuff. The Jurassic Park area has some kid friendly rides. I have taken my small children and we all had a great time. And this coming from a Disney fanatic here.

We have been taking my son since he was 18 months old and there is plenty to do for young kids I agree. Curious George and Jurassic Park I can't even tell you all the hours that we spent at those places. Kids love that stuff! I would not hesitate to take young kids there. They will have a great time! But I think the difference is Disney has 75% of their attractions geared toward families with young children and Universal has 75% of their attractions gearded toward families with preteens and up. That' is IMO where the two parks differ. Universal is not lacking in quality it just goes in a different direction. I think that is why every preteen and teen I know (and I am stresses that "I know") would rather spend more time in Universal than Disney.

[lockedoutlogic]

I see wishful thinking has taken hold here....

Harry Potter poses no threat to Disney (we went rounds about this before...so i won't get longwinded on it again)

Harry potter is big right now....as a movie has just come...
But let's face it: the picture fell behind gerbils this week....it will be forgotten in a month.
And then you have a year and a half (minimum) harry potter lull.
No movies, no merchandise, no new material.
Then they'll get alot more frenzy when the next movie comes out
...And then it will be forgotten again

What happens when there's no more movies?
It WILL be forgotten

We had this debate two years ago when the last book came out - it was big then. It has disappeared since. No merchandise, no TV, just a loyal fanbase that gets all excited when something NEW comes out.

Harry potter reminds me of Batmania...Spideymania....and LOTR mania.

Bigtime...but for a distinct period of time.

It will not live on...as much as the fans seem to think it will.

The closest thing to a Disney type phenomena has been star wars (star trek to a lesser extent)....and even those have no chance to the staying power of Mickey the Great.

Disney (and subsquently Disney Parks) hold the one game changing advantage.

And that is the they are perhaps the most iconic franchise in World Pop Culture from the 20th Century....and harry potter does not measure up.

And knowing that no significant business will be drawn away from WDW (notice i said "significant"....we all know there will be a "bump" - but we all know deep down that it is merely a "bump")....WDW will do what they want, spend what they want, and do it when they are good and ready to do it.

This changes nothing....the four seasons, actually, changes things for the better

I'm sure that Disney will greenlight a thing or two with harry potter in mind....but it will be far from necessitated by merely the existence of what's over at IOA.

But let's not argue...I have my stance...the potterheads have their's. I'm not discounting the size or dedication of the HP fans - but it's the scale of the franchise that is being blown out of porportion.

Let time and dollars decide (i'll confidently rest on that)

[goofyskier]

Say what you want but. . . .my normal ten day Disney vacation coming this February will be shortened to seven as a result of new rides at Universal. Disney can keep doing whatever they want but my dollars will be spent elsewhere if they do.

[Meteora]

But let's not argue...I have my stance...the potterheads have their's. I'm not discounting the size or dedication of the HP fans - but it's the scale of the franchise that is being blown out of porportion.

I disagree about the longevity of Harry Potter--not as a Potterhead, but as a former elementary school teacher who has seen the amazing hold that beloved children's books take on people's lives for decades and generations after they were written. But that's fine. As you said, time will tell.

For me, the point is less "How long will Harry Potter mania, specifically, last?" and more "How many people will realize, after visiting US for HP, that they really enjoy the experience?" People don't have to come back year after year specifically for HP. As previous posters have noted, they may just as easily find they enjoy the hotels, the customer service, the restaurants, and other excellent rides in the park. I don't think it's as small as a battle between HP and Disney. I think it's the larger scale war or the entire Universal experience versus the entire Disney experience, and while I personally think Disney will always have the scales tipped heavily its way, US might be a strong enough contender to take a small but significant chunk, and THAT is what I think Disney should be concerned about. HP is going to get people through the US turnstiles, no question. If US can do what I'm sure its brass intends and keep them there, that becomes the issue.

[BelleCiavo]

We stayed on Universal's property and were extremely satisfied. I had never been to the hotels before and wasn't sure what to expect. Let me tell you it was a great experience. We stayed at Portofino Bay and were blown away by the attention to detail, the costumer service, and the high quality of the room. The staff was cordial and extremely helpful, housekeeping was impeccable, and the atmosphere, in general, was to die for.

Universal did everything right. They strove for excellence. Unfortunately, I think Disney sits back on its laurels far too much. Our experience at Disney was no where near as satisfying as our stay at Universal. Our room at the Wilderness Lodge was small and dingy. When complaints were made they were ignored. Mousekeeping was sub-standard and our room was barely touched.

What does this have to do with Harry Potter? I discovered all of this about Universal, almost, by accident. My husband and I decided that since we were spending two full days at Universal that we should stay on the property. How many more people will fall in love with Universal this way? Yes, they may draw people away with Harry Potter Land but they may keep them by exhibiting superior service, beautiful hotels, and wonderful theming.


Exactly. We've experienced the same thing. So far we've stayed at the Royal Pacific and the Hard Rock, both are incredible hotels with wonderful amenities and cast members. We are staying at the Portofino Bay club level for basically the price of Poly GV (rack.) In addition to how wonderful the hotels are I love fotl access, if IOA draws big crowds I see more and more people staying on site to enjoy that privilege. The food and the coffee are two more big draws, can't Disney find a sponsor that actually makes good coffee :shake: (looking forward to the Keurig coffee at PBH :cool:)

I do, however, still believe that Disney trains it's park cast members better, we've run into some real doozies at USO. Disney is definitely ahead in the "magic" department. Ultimately though, we're willing to forego a little magic for all we gain by staying on-site at USO.

[JabberJaws]

I think many of you are blowing the potential impact of HP out of proportion. I won't rehash everything I said in my above post, but HP will have an impact no doubt, but one land (albeit an awesome looking land) in a park will not all of a sudden create a multi-day vacation destination to rival WDW. HP will boost IOA attendance, ESPECIALLY with the local crowd no doubt. However, as many have stated, I believe that this will just have a minimal impact on WDW attendance.

People aren't going to forgo a WDW trip to go see HP. They may add a day to check it out, or skip a day at one of the lesser parks (DHS comes to mind), to check it out.

Now, just as I say above, this WILL impact WDW, but IMO not in the apocolyptic way some think. Read my above post re: the opening of IOA vs DAK relating to beastly kingdom. I think you will see a similar approach w/ the MK upgrades. It will be a reactive measure. If HP blasts out of the gates and really hurts WDW attendance, you will see big announcements, more elaborate updates to MK and some of the other parks, etc,. in order to counter. If the update is less than expected (i.e. opening of IOA), you will see a trimmed down version of the same additions, upgrades, etc.

Time will tell I suppose.

[Meteora]

I think you will see a similar approach w/ the MK upgrades. It will be a reactive measure. If HP blasts out of the gates and really hurts WDW attendance, you will see big announcements, more elaborate updates to MK and some of the other parks, etc,. in order to counter. If the update is less than expected (i.e. opening of IOA), you will see a trimmed down version of the same additions, upgrades, etc.

Honestly...I hate to say it, but I almost want HP to score Disney a bit, because I want those upgrades, and if this is how we get them...well...

[JabberJaws]

Honestly...I hate to say it, but I almost want HP to score Disney a bit, because I want those upgrades, and if this is how we get them...well...

You know I didn't want to say it but I agree! WDW has been notorious in the past for "trimming the budget" when it comes to new attractions or upgrades (exceptions being EE, ToT, etc.). I think a good kick in the pants is sometimes a good thing. Without competition, things can get too stale and comfortable. I think HP doing really good would be some nice incentive for WDW mgmt to kick it up a notch.

All you have to do is take one look at Tokyo Disney Sea to see what can happen when you give WDI a large enough budget. I would LOVE to see a Fantasyland makeover on par w/ the level of quality at TDS. To be honest it looks like HP land is going to be up towards that standard, IMO WDW needs to step up to the plate and really go all out here.

[xipetotec]

Honestly...I hate to say it, but I almost want HP to score Disney a bit, because I want those upgrades, and if this is how we get them...well...

Well I've *always* felt strongly that competition pushes both these parks to be bigger and better. I think if Universal had not come around, we might not have DHS or AK at all! With each place trying to one-up each other ( and other big parks in the area like Busch Gardens and SeaWorld ), it's ever more important for them to keep things fresh.

That being said, I agree and hope that HP is a huge hit so Disney comes back with something great too! I'll be happy to visit both :) :thumbsup:

[Cinderelley]

We'll be having a family reunion in Orlando next summer. When we did it in 2005, we spent two weeks at WDW. Next year, we'll be doing one week at WDW and one week at Universal. Losing a week's worth of business for 16 people in one group alone leads me to believe that Disney will be losing money.

Quite honestly, I think that once the kids go to Universal, they will want to go back. They love the type of rides that Universal has. Additionally, Disney has shut down some of our favorite things - Adventurer's Club, characters at Liberty Tree Tavern, etc - and we're not too interested in the things they've replaced them with.

[gueli]

Yes it will have a financial impact on WDW.

No it will not be the end of WDW being a premere destination.

In the end, WDW will respond and do what WDW needs to to stay on top.
At the same time US will try to become better and better, and make their area a premere destination.

:mickey:

[TheVBs]

I don't know about that. There's Seuss Landing, there's the whole area with the Curious george stuff. The Jurassic Park area has some kid friendly rides. I have taken my small children and we all had a great time. And this coming from a Disney fanatic here.

I'll have to check out their site then! It sounds like there's more there than I thought. Again, I wouldn't cut into a Disney trip for it, but it might be something we could do while were there for other reasons.

When is HP supposed to open?

[lockedoutlogic]

Well I've *always* felt strongly that competition pushes both these parks to be bigger and better. I think if Universal had not come around, we might not have DHS or AK at all! With each place trying to one-up each other ( and other big parks in the area like Busch Gardens and SeaWorld ), it's ever more important for them to keep things fresh.

That being said, I agree and hope that HP is a huge hit so Disney comes back with something great too! I'll be happy to visit both :) :thumbsup:

You would think that....

but it doesn't really bare out that much

WDW has something like an 80% share of the revenue that goes to the themepark industry in orlando....and that's against the Seaworld and Universal complexes and alot of other diversionary stuff.

I like to compare it to shipping in the US. Most people think that UPS and Fedex are rivals and butt heads on an equal field....

but the reality is UPS has 80% of the business and Fedex/USPS shipping about 20%


Because things appear to be in equal competition....doesn't always pan out when it comes to customers and revenue

Coke vs pepsi is another such example


Seaworld and Universal were only made possible by the existence of WDW....just as Disneyland opened the doors in LA 20 years earlier.
The numbers say that the other contenders feed off the scraps from disney's table....and even when they unveil something big and new....disney draws in increased numbers and profits.

It is why you see alot of Walmarts and Targets next to each other....or lowes and home depots....

a symbiotic relationship

[xipetotec]

I'll have to check out their site then! It sounds like there's more there than I thought. Again, I wouldn't cut into a Disney trip for it, but it might be something we could do while were there for other reasons.

When is HP supposed to open?

Well that's the thing. Right now it's anywhere between Dec 1st to June 30th. Assuming they are even on time. The last "rumours" we've heard are that the Hogsmeade Village would open Dec 1st with the Hogwarts Castle attraction opening sometime in the spring.

[xipetotec]

You would think that....

but it doesn't really bare out that much

WDW has something like an 80% share of the revenue that goes to the themepark industry in orlando....and that's against the Seaworld and Universal complexes and alot of other diversionary stuff.

I like to compare it to shipping in the US. Most people think that UPS and Fedex are rivals and butt heads on an equal field....

but the reality is UPS has 80% of the business and Fedex/USPS shipping about 20%


Because things appear to be in equal competition....doesn't always pan out when it comes to customers and revenue

Coke vs pepsi is another such example


Seaworld and Universal were only made possible by the existence of WDW....just as Disneyland opened the doors in LA 20 years earlier.
The numbers say that the other contenders feed off the scraps from disney's table....and even when they unveil something big and new....disney draws in increased numbers and profits.

It is why you see alot of Walmarts and Targets next to each other....or lowes and home depots....

a symbiotic relationship

Well for my family, that's certainly true. We go down for Disney. We're DVC members and will always go down for Disney. but Universal doing something great and new will make me take a day or two to go there. ( said table scraps ). But there ARE people who are Universal people, and there are some who've expressed recently that Universal's hotels are better than Disney's. Granted *right now* Disney has the majority share. But that doesn't mean it will always be that way...

[Meteora]

WDW has something like an 80% share of the revenue that goes to the themepark industry in orlando....and that's against the Seaworld and Universal complexes and alot of other diversionary stuff.

Right...but I'm sure WDW likes having 80% of the revenue. If it dropped, say 10% due to the opening of HP, even if only for a couple of years, that would likely annoy WDW brass. It doesn't have to be an equal split for it to be competitive. Honestly, from what people are saying and from what I've heard in my own life, I'll be very surprised if Disney does not feel compelled to respond in some way, if only because HP and US is going to be all over the media and they will want to get their own news cycle in.

And also, if they're thinking intelligently, you'd think they'd want to do the inverse of what HP is doing in drawing people away from Disney for a look-see: open up something new and exciting that might prompt people coming to Orlando specifically for US and HP to drop by WDW and check it out.

[lockedoutlogic]

Right...but I'm sure WDW likes having 80% of the revenue. If it dropped, say 10% due to the opening of HP, even if only for a couple of years, that would likely annoy WDW brass. It doesn't have to be an equal split for it to be competitive. Honestly, from what people are saying and from what I've heard in my own life, I'll be very surprised if Disney does not feel compelled to respond in some way, if only because HP and US is going to be all over the media and they will want to get their own news cycle in.

And also, if they're thinking intelligently, you'd think they'd want to do the inverse of what HP is doing in drawing people away from Disney for a look-see: open up something new and exciting that might prompt people coming to Orlando specifically for US and HP to drop by WDW and check it out.

i agree with you....but history tells that it's not much of a valid concern....

it didn't happen when universal opened....didn't happen when IOA opened....didn't happen with discovery cove....and on and on...

disney holds the advantage in perception and emotion.....that is probably going to preserve a 75/25 split alone.

it probably would be good if they got knock down a peg or two for all of us....but it is extremely unlikely to happen

[DisneyFanaticDargon]

i agree with you....but history tells that it's not much of a valid concern....

it didn't happen when universal opened....didn't happen when IOA opened....didn't happen with discovery cove....and on and on...

disney holds the advantage in perception and emotion.....that is probably going to preserve a 75/25 split alone.

it probably would be good if they got knock down a peg or two for all of us....but it is extremely unlikely to happen

Yes, but think about the properties that Universal holds versus Disney. Do things like Jaws, Terminator, Spider-Man, Jurassic Park, or anything else that Universal has to offer have the same following that Disney has? No, not yet. But Harry Potter DOES have a huge following, bigger than anything Disney or Universal have offered to date.

To say things will be business as usual following the opening of Harry Potter is extremely short-sighted. It WILL affect Disney, either positively or negatively. HOW it will affect Disney remains to be seen. But to say it will not affect Disney at all comes off incredibly misinformed about how large, powerful and effective the Harry Potter fanbase can be.

[antngoof89]

Well for my family, that's certainly true. We go down for Disney. We're DVC members and will always go down for Disney. but Universal doing something great and new will make me take a day or two to go there. ( said table scraps ). But there ARE people who are Universal people, and there are some who've expressed recently that Universal's hotels are better than Disney's. Granted *right now* Disney has the majority share. But that doesn't mean it will always be that way...

Regardless of anything that happens, people will chose to vacation according to their own preference. Familys will always be better off going to a park like Walt Disney World where everything is magical and kids can feel like they really are in a new world. It will always be internationally more popular and even if Disney isn't getting the popularity at one park, another park around the world will get some new comer's business.

HP will make an impact for some people, but without those same films you grew up seeing and the magic we all fell in love with as kids, people will only visit HP so often, the world will be visited countless times due to their long run of safety and magic.

I just don't think that HP will affect WDW much at all, some affect on profit of course, but not enough to scare them.

[sherrynny]

Lets not forget the economy. With so many people cutting back, the cost of tickets is going up again. Many families can no longer afford the price of Disney, and at $99.00 for one week, US & IOA are a bargain. Disney has forgotten that not everyone is a family of 4 and can stay at a value hotel. They have to give away free dining, and charge an unbelievable rack rate. Disney gives nothing for free, but they do take away. Don't get me wrong, I love Disney, and travel from upstate NY at least once a year, but with all their cutbacks, I feel like I'm getting less for my money. Given a choice this year, we are doing Universal & SeaWorld. The kids are getting older, so they want different things. And I can hardly wait for WWHP Sorry, Disney.

[SurferStitch]

Am I wrong is understanding the HP Land is handful of rides (I think 3) a restaurant and a couple of gift shops? It's not a whole park, if I were to compare it to anything it would be Frontierland at MK.

The signature ride appears to be pretty interesting, but they are going to re-theme Dueling Dragons as the other big ride.

I don't see a lot of staying power here... Again, I think Universal will do a fantastic job theming this, etc, but factoring in the cost of tickets, transportation, time, etc, I just don't see how this can offer a lot of competition...

I have to agree with you here.

I really love the HP movies, but I'm not a big enough fan to make a trip to Universal for a "land" in the park. Sounds cool, and if we were planning to visit Universal, then sure, I'd check it out. BUT, we won't make a special trip for HP. It's not a park...just an area in the park.

Also, a big thing about Disney is character interaction. The Jack Sparrow character is amazing, and people love him. That's staying power. Are they going to have HP characters there? If so, cool...but it might be difficult to get a good HP there to interact.

[lockedoutlogic]

Yes, but think about the properties that Universal holds versus Disney. Do things like Jaws, Terminator, Spider-Man, Jurassic Park, or anything else that Universal has to offer have the same following that Disney has? No, not yet. But Harry Potter DOES have a huge following, bigger than anything Disney or Universal have offered to date.

To say things will be business as usual following the opening of Harry Potter is extremely short-sighted. It WILL affect Disney, either positively or negatively. HOW it will affect Disney remains to be seen. But to say it will not affect Disney at all comes off incredibly misinformed about how large, powerful and effective the Harry Potter fanbase can be.

I have said it countless times....i'll say it again...

Harry potter will fade.....probably more quickly than even entertainment analysts would predict.

But again, we don't need to go back and forth...i'll just wait for the judgement of the market on this one

[KatrinaJ91]

I look at US and WDW as totally separate. We always visit for a week and spend the majority of our time at WDW. We LOVE HP and are very much looking forward to the opening, but feel this will have nothing to do with our trip to WDW! We usually go to the parks for 4-5 days and spend the other days at our resort or exploring Orlando. Once HP opens, we will use one of our extra days to visit. We have been to Universal and found that 1 day is plenty, so I don't think it will impact our trip at all in regards to Disney!

[wire0monkey]

I think it will.

The addition of Harry Potter to the Universal Studios campus means that my family can happily do a 5 day vacation in Orlando and never set foot on Disney property. I can easily see us spending a day at SeaWorld, a day at Discovery Cove, a day at Universal Studios, a day at Islands of Adventure, and a day at Aquatica. Add tickets to Blue Man Group and it's a very nice week for a family of 4. If we took side-trips to Busch Gardens, NASA, GatorWorld and the beach, we could easily make a full week of it, have a great time, and never spend a dime with Disney.

[JPL]

I have said it countless times....i'll say it again...

Harry potter will fade.....probably more quickly than even entertainment analysts would predict.



You sound like the people who said the same thing about Star Wars and Star Trek ;)

[antngoof89]

I think it will.

The addition of Harry Potter to the Universal Studios campus means that my family can happily do a 5 day vacation in Orlando and never set foot on Disney property. I can easily see us spending a day at SeaWorld, a day at Discovery Cove, a day at Universal Studios, a day at Islands of Adventure, and a day at Aquatica. Add tickets to Blue Man Group and it's a very nice week for a family of 4. If we took side-trips to Busch Gardens, NASA, GatorWorld and the beach, we could easily make a full week of it, have a great time, and never spend a dime with Disney.

While I can agree with this to an extent, not every family will think like that. You're buying tickets to each one of these parks, paying nightly for a hotel that will not put you in the same kind of atmosphere and service you get at Disney, point 1 for Disney still getting money.

None of those parks have the same character interaction or themes that Disney has. Not to mention, IOA is a thrill park mostly, so for many families with small kids, that is a half day adventure with tickets needing to be purchased for a show or something entertaining for the night... Disney provides free entertainment in all parks, parades, and fireworks.... point 2 for Disney.

Then you have to add the food factor, it's either gonna be quick service or nice Orlando restaurants with this kind of vacation, no sentimental attachement like there is in WDW. No character interaction during dining, no world class chef's, and no way of making great dining greatly cheapened like WDW Dining Plans. Point and game for Disney.

Although WDW can be overpriced, merchandise is getting generic, and there arent' the same thrills you can get elsewhere, think of this. The test of time. The world renowned name will always win!

[lockedoutlogic]

You sound like the people who said the same thing about Star Wars and Star Trek ;)

i wouldn't put harry potter on that level yet....


but even if i did.....star trek was in shambles for the last ten years before abrams movie....

and star wars....well....the new car glint wore off that quite quickly when they spent a billion dollars making those three installments of substandard "whatever" to sell jar jar binks dolls....

and those have much wider appeal than potter....


just wait and see

[JPL]

paying nightly for a hotel that will not put you in the same kind of atmosphere and service you get at Disney, point 1 for Disney still getting money.


Actually talking to a few people who have stayed at the Universal Hotels and also stayed at Disney Deluxe Resorts this is not entirely true. They all said the Universal Resorts make a Disney Deluxe look like a Value in comparison. They also offer their guest Front of Line access to all the attractions in the parks.



None of those parks have the same character interaction or themes that Disney has. Not to mention, IOA is a thrill park mostly, so for many families with small kids, that is a half day adventure with tickets needing to be purchased for a show or something entertaining for the night... Disney provides free entertainment in all parks, parades, and fireworks.... point 2 for Disney.


There are pelnty of things for younger children and families to do in both Universal Parks. They just market the parks to an older audience.



Then you have to add the food factor, it's either gonna be quick service or nice Orlando restaurants with this kind of vacation, no sentimental attachement like there is in WDW. No character interaction during dining, no world class chef's, and no way of making great dining greatly cheapened like WDW Dining Plans. Point and game for Disney.


There is a large selction of Restaurants including Emerils for your World class chef. And as for dining option they is a much larger selection and generally cheaper prices off Disney property.



Although WDW can be overpriced, merchandise is getting generic, and there arent' the same thrills you can get elsewhere, think of this. The test of time. The world renowned name will always win!

As for thrills you can't get elsewhere the same can be said for Sea World and Discovery Cove as well as Universal. The best attraction in all of Orlando resides at IOA in Spiderman.

This all coming from a Disney Purist at heart but I also look at the bigger picture. I spent a week at a convention on I-Drive between Sea World and Universal 2 years ago and I ate like a king for a fraction of the cost of WDW. I enjoyed 2 Days at Sea World for less than a 1 Day ticket to WDW. If the economy doesn't turn around these are factors that will also come into play. I really think many people haven't explored as much of the area surrounding WDW to really understand that these other parks and restaurants exist and are also great places to visit.

[antngoof89]

Actually talking to a few people who have stayed at the Universal Hotels and also stayed at Disney Deluxe Resorts this is not entirely true. They all said the Universal Resorts make a Disney Deluxe look like a Value in comparison. They also offer their guest Front of Line access to all the attractions in the parks.



There are pelnty of things for younger children and families to do in both Universal Parks. They just market the parks to an older audience.



There is a large selction of Restaurants including Emerils for your World class chef. And as for dining option they is a much larger selection and generally cheaper prices off Disney property.



As for thrills you can't get elsewhere the same can be said for Sea World and Discovery Cove as well as Universal. The best attraction in all of Orlando resides at IOA in Spiderman.

This all coming from a Disney Purist at heart but I also look at the bigger picture. I spent a week at a convention on I-Drive between Sea World and Universal 2 years ago and I ate like a king for a fraction of the cost of WDW. I enjoyed 2 Days at Sea World for less than a 1 Day ticket to WDW. If the economy doesn't turn around these are factors that will also come into play. I really think many people haven't explored as much of the area surrounding WDW to really understand that these other parks and restaurants exist and are also great places to visit.


Even though this is said, the Characters are what sells the parks and we all know that. The feeling of being a little kids sells Disney without promotion. I think the Dis will always reign supreme

[SurferStitch]

Actually talking to a few people who have stayed at the Universal Hotels and also stayed at Disney Deluxe Resorts this is not entirely true. They all said the Universal Resorts make a Disney Deluxe look like a Value in comparison. They also offer their guest Front of Line access to all the attractions in the parks.

I've stayed in all levels of resorts at WDW. Our favorites are the Grand Flo and the Poly.

We've also stayed at the Hard Rock Hotel at Universal.

The Hard Rock was very nice. The rooms were a decent size, very simple and plain, but very modern. The bathroom was large, but very, very spartan (had a cold look to it). No balcony, which I hated. Now, I love modern hotel rooms, and stay in rooms like that in NYC and all, but not for a week or more. After a couple days, I get tired of it. Luckily we only stayed 3 days at Universal back in 2001.

The best part about the Hard Rock was the lobby, but you can't spend the vacation in the lobby. The displays were really cool.

The staff at the HRH was find...not rude, but not exactly friendly. We've always found the staff (with an exception at POR) to be extremely friendly and outgoing.

Disney deluxe resort rooms are very nicely appointed, super comfy, and totally luxurious. We love coming back to our room in the middle of the afternoon or evening and just totally relaxing.

Even the value resort rooms at Disney had more of a welcoming feel than the HRH did.

Front of line access at Universal was nice, when they would let you use it. Several times we were told they weren't allowing it, and we had to wait in lines that were 30-60 minutes long! Kind of stupid.

We did discover the Palm restaurant at the HRH, so I give a big thumbs up for that. We now visit the Palm in NYC when we're there.

[iheartdisney]

The best attraction in all of Orlando resides at IOA in Spiderman.

What is IOA? :blush:

[SurferStitch]

What is IOA? :blush:

Islands of Adventure at Universal

[NJGIRL]

Actually talking to a few people who have stayed at the Universal Hotels and also stayed at Disney Deluxe Resorts this is not entirely true. They all said the Universal Resorts make a Disney Deluxe look like a Value in comparison. They also offer their guest Front of Line access to all the attractions in the parks.


Two different travel agencies have told me that Universal Hotels are "true" 4 star hotels and Disney's while nice are Not.





There are pelnty of things for younger children and families to do in both Universal Parks. They just market the parks to an older audience.

Very True. We have been taking my son since he was 18 months old.


There is a large selction of Restaurants including Emerils for your World class chef. And as for dining option they is a much larger selection and generally cheaper prices off Disney property.

Again I have to agree. They have some great restaurants. Plus you don't have to plan 3 months inadvance to eat at a sit down there.



As for thrills you can't get elsewhere the same can be said for Sea World and Discovery Cove as well as Universal. The best attraction in all of Orlando resides at IOA in Spiderman.

This all coming from a Disney Purist at heart but I also look at the bigger picture. I spent a week at a convention on I-Drive between Sea World and Universal 2 years ago and I ate like a king for a fraction of the cost of WDW. I enjoyed 2 Days at Sea World for less than a 1 Day ticket to WDW. If the economy doesn't turn around these are factors that will also come into play. I really think many people haven't explored as much of the area surrounding WDW to really understand that these other parks and restaurants exist and are also great places to visit.


I think that many of the people who dislike Universal have never even been there. So much of the things that are said have been incorrect.


Also Universal has many many characters that come out and interact and that have a much larger RANGE of appeal for different aged kids. The difference is that Universal doesn't use space that can be used for an attraction to make a character meet and greet. Universal's characters are more random than set up.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion but I find it strange that people can have such a strong dislike of a place that they have never been to. :confused:

[TheVBs]

I've never been, and I most definitely don't have a dislike for it. I would never judge a place without visiting. That said, I'm not likely to visit a place if it doesn't look like a good destination for our family. Or, if in the Orlando area, a better destination than Disney. I had no idea that there were a lot of things for small kids to do at US. Every ad I've seen was definitely geared towards adults and older kids. So, that didn't catch my interest and get me to investigate it as a destination. Based upon the great things I've read here, I would definitely give it a try if it were convenient for us. But, nothing I've read here would get me to ditch a day at Disney to check it out.

[SurferStitch]

Yep, and that's why we haven't been back since we went in 2001.

It wasn't bad at all...we had fun...but not enough to skip even one day at WDW.

[NJGIRL]

I've never been, and I most definitely don't have a dislike for it. I would never judge a place without visiting. That said, I'm not likely to visit a place if it doesn't look like a good destination for our family.

Not being interested in taking a particular vacation is reasonable. Not everyone is interested in the same thing but some people saying that one place is much better than another without having visited both places, that is what I find strange.

I find Disney and Universal very similar in many ways. In many areas Universal does better than Disney and in others Disney does better than Universal. The only reason we spend a little more time in Disney is because they have 4 parks and Universal only has 2.

[lockedoutlogic]

Even though this is said, the Characters are what sells the parks and we all know that. The feeling of being a little kids sells Disney without promotion. I think the Dis will always reign supreme


in a nutshell....you hit it right on the head

MM is 81 years old and doesn't seem to be lost on any new generation sans maybe those of the 70's and early 80's

TWDC does many things wrong....but the "brand" strengthening hasn't been one of them. some of it by design, some of it luck

it's about as close to an insurmountable lead as you can get in entertainment

[rachel_future_candy_maker]

i think that more people will now make time out of their trip to disneyworld to visit universal for at least a day. I'm sure there's a good size of disney fans that also like HP-but, in the long run, i think WDW won't be affected that much by it :mickey: :pixie:

[Aurora]

I think that many of the people who dislike Universal have never even been there. So much of the things that are said have been incorrect.

I think that's partly Universal's fault and their marketing. It's true that except for the Dr. Seuss land, they haven't marketed the theme parks as good destinations for all ages.

We had been visiting Disney for MANY years before finally visiting Universal last year. Being a gigantic Disney fan I had fairly neutral expectations. We have three kids who last year were 12, 9 and 3, and everyone had a great time. I was very pleasantly surprised by the attractions, employees and overall atmosphere.

That last visit put Universal on my "do again" list even without Harry Potter. With HP the parks are on my "must do again" list for our next visit.

[NJGIRL]

I think that's partly Universal's fault and their marketing. It's true that except for the Dr. Seuss land, they haven't marketed the theme parks as good destinations for all ages.

Agreed.

I'm glad your family enjoyed it and hopefully other people will try it before they decided that Universal is not worth going to.

[Goofster]

I've never been to Universal only because I don't have any desire to. I'm sure its a fun place, but it just doesn't interest me. My wife has been there before and enjoyed it, but hasn't really had any desire to return. We might give it a try in the future, but its hard to give up a day at Disney for Universal. :mickey:

[wire0monkey]

I just got back from 10 days in Orlando. We took two days of this trip to visit IOA and USO. I'm now a convert. Our days at IOA and USO were the best two days of the trip.

These parks are small, but WOW! Their rides were so much better than anything we saw in WDW that I'm shocked. The Spider-Man ride and the Simpsons ride in particular were jaw-dropping. I was completely amazed. My kids were completely enthralled by Seuss Landing. They were delighted by Shrek and the Jimmy Neutron ride. My youngest was blown away by the Jurassic Park area and the baby animatronic puppet. Universal has ride tech that is ten years ahead of anything that Disney is doing. Their motion simulators in particular are astonishing. The roller coasters and water rides were also great.

If the Harry Potter parklet is done as well as what is already there, it's going to be a mind-blowing. I can see why JK Rowling chose Universal over Disney to develop a Harry Potter park.

Especially with older kids, I think it would really easy to make a vacation out of the two USO parks (and Harry Potter!), Aquatica and Discovery Cove. I think older kids would have a better time.

People might visit just to see the Harry Potter stuff, but I think they're going to stay because IOA and USO are really great parks.

Don't get me wrong. I love Disney. We had fun at WDW. Their parks are charming. Disney needs to step up their game, though, if they're going to compete in the ride department.

[brownie]

Yes! We're not going back to Walt Disney World until the Wizarding World of Harry Potter opens.

[Rhetoric2000]

starryeyes hit upon the key phrase I think which a few have picked up on since:

"Striving for excellence"

This current trip I feel that Universal is doing exactly that at every turn - they may occassionally get understaffed and the rides may break down sometimes(nowhere near as often as some would have you think) - but they do so in pushing out every boat to impress, service and pamper you at every turn for your $$$.

I'll go further into details at a later date, but this has been a landmark trip for me in terms of Orlando vacation time - as someone who has property here and brings/sends lots of family and friends - the US/IOA/SW/Busch ticket beats the Disney ticket right now and from now on will be the one I promote to the groups that I bring over. And I have been a hardline WDWer for years.

And that is BEFORE Harry Potter

[Rhetoric2000]

, there is no "overall" theme to U.S. that brings the park together.

It is the making of movies in general - sometimes educational, sometimes silly - and immersion into some well-known individual movies

In all very similar to the theme the Disney studios used to have before they decided to treat the attractions that should be the centrepieces of the park - the backlot tour, the animation tour and the great movie ride - like a complete sack of garbage in favour of creating a totally haphazard mess.

[SpecJoe Magic]

I think Disney will lose at least a small percentage of attendance due to Harry Potter, but I'm not sure if the loss will be significant. That said, I'm glad that Universal is building the HP land because it puts at least a little pressure on Disney to counter, and strong competition is usually good for consumers.

[TheVBs]

I'm trying to talk DH into visiting US when we visit family later this year. So far, he's not interested, but I think it's more the thought of driving into Orlando than lack of interest in US.

If we're coming from the Tampa area, is it difficult to get to US?

[joonyer]

I'm trying to talk DH into visiting US when we visit family later this year. So far, he's not interested, but I think it's more the thought of driving into Orlando than lack of interest in US.

If we're coming from the Tampa area, is it difficult to get to US?

You don't have to drive "into" Orlando (if you mean downtown) to get to Universal. And it's easy to get to from Tampa. It's almost exactly 13 miles further up I-4 from the WDW World Drive exit on I-4 to the Universal Blvd. exit on I-4.

[TheVBs]

You don't have to drive "into" Orlando (if you mean downtown) to get to Universal. And it's easy to get to from Tampa. It's almost exactly 13 miles further up I-4 from the WDW World Drive exit on I-4 to the Universal Blvd. exit on I-4.

Thank you! I think that's exactly what he thought, that we'd have to drive through a busy downtown area to get there. This is good to know.