Deadly Disney World Monorail Crash-Updated with NTSB Report

[DisneyAndRedSox]

From local 6 news website

At 2am Sunday morning, Reedy Creek Emergency Services responded to a call at the Ticket and Transportation Center at the Magic Kingdom. Two monorails collided. 8 people were evaluated total following the crash. One monorail driver was killed. The other driver is fine physically. There were 5 to 6 guests on the monorail at the time of the crash. Disney World Public Relations tells Local 6 that they will release more information later this morning. They are on scene right now gathering information about the incident.

A witness tells Local 6 that he heard a huge crashing noise when the monorails collided. He was able to get pictures and video of frazzled guests walking off the train.

Another report indicates that a moving pink train hit a stationary purple train.

Local 6 has obtained dramatic pictures from the scene of the crash. Stay with Local 6 for more information about this crash.

Video Taken Immediately After The Collision (MAYBE BE SLIGHTLY DISTURBING TO SOME MEMBERS): http://www.clickorlando.com/video/19956043/index.html

[clou1028]

I am so sorry for the driver's family. How tragic.

[Ian]

I can't imagine how this could possibly happen. There had to be a serious software failure somewhere or something, because on the times we've ridden up front and gotten the "grand tour" of how the monorails work we were told that they're basically prevented by computer from getting too close to one another.

To think that they could not only crash, but crash at speed ... that's pretty darn scary considering the people who drive them get minimal training.

[DizneyRox]

If memory serves me correctly, we had some discussions over the monorails a while back. Someone mentioned that if they get too close, the monorail automatically performs some sort of hard stop. It pretty much locks up the wheels, which would be extremely jarring to those aboard.

If that's the case, this would appear to have to be some sort of mechanical failure.

I'll leave it at that...

*EDIT* Ian beats me again! I am irked!

[Skippy]

How could this happen?

I was just on the monorail a day or two before explaining to my wife about the MAPO system.

I had heard of one time where one pilot contorted himself to do a MAPO override and finagled one of the relays in the control box.

Will be interesting to see what happened here.

[Melanie]

From cfnews13

Disney Monorail Crash Kills Driver

LAKE BUENA VISTA -- News 13 has learned a driver of the Walt Disney World Monorail System was killed when two monorail trains collided early Sunday.

Witnesses who called the News 13 newsroom said the trains collided around 2 a.m. Sunday on the Epcot track of the Transportation and Ticket Center, located at the parking lot of the Magic Kingdom, as guests were leaving the park following a Fourth of July fireworks show.

The Reedy Creek Fire Department told News 13 the driver was pronounced dead on the the scene, and another driver was taken to the hospital.

No guests were injured, fire officials said.

There was no immediate word on what caused the wreck, or how many people were aboard the trains when they collided.

According to witnesses, one monorail train slammed into the back of the other.

Crews had to cut the driver who died out of the train.

Sunday’s wreck marks the first fatal accident in the Walt Disney World Monorail System’s nearly 38 years of operation.

Statement from Disney
Mike Griffin, vice president of public affairs at Walt Disney World, issued the following statement Sunday following the wreck:

“Today, we mourn the loss of our fellow cast member. Our hearts go out to his family and those who have lost a friend and coworker. The safety of our guests and cast members is always our top priority. The monorail is out of service and we will continue to work closely with law enforcement to determine what happened and the appropriate next steps.”

Disney officials told News 13 Epcot is scheduled to reopen on time at 9 a.m., but the monorail to the park will remain out of service until further notice.

Monorail System Facts
The Walt Disney World Monorail system debuted when the resort first opened in 1971 with two routes.

In 1982, the system expanded to three lines as Epcot first opened.

The entire monorail system currently comprises 14.7 miles of track, transporting about 50 million guests every year between the Magic Kingdom, Epcot and various Disney resorts.

Previous Monorail Accidents
1974
A monorail train crashed into the train ahead of it, injuring a driver and two guests.

June 26, 1985
A fire engulfed the rear car of a monorail train in transit from Epcot to the Transportation and Ticket Center. The train was carrying 240 passengers, 40 of whom were in the burning car.

Passengers in the car kicked out side windows and climbed around the side of the train to reach the roof, where they were subsequently rescued by the Reedy Creek Fire Department.

Seven passengers were hospitalized for smoke inhalation or other minor injuries.

Aug. 30, 1991
A monorail train collided with a diesel maintenance work tractor near Disney’s Contemporary Resort as the tractor drove closely in front of the train to film it for a commercial. Two cast members were treated at a hospital for injuries.

Aug. 12, 1996
An electrical fire broke out on a train pulling into the Magic Kingdom station. The driver and the five passengers onboard exited safely.

[d_m_n_n]

:sad:

How sad for the driver, their family, and all who witnessed this awful tragedy...

[clou1028]

I can't imagine how this could possibly happen. There had to be a serious software failure somewhere or something, because on the times we've ridden up front and gotten the "grand tour" of how the monorails work we were told that they're basically prevented by computer from getting too close to one another.

To think that they could not only crash, but crash at speed ... that's pretty darn scary considering the people who drive them get minimal training.

I was wondering that myself. I have never had a ride in the front but I seem to remember somewhere along the way learning about the monorails safety measures, such as timing and sensors that they pass over. It makes me wonder how it all failed.

[Daisy'sMom]

My neighbor just told me the news while I was walking the dog. This is so sad. I am praying for the family, for the co workers and the guests that were on the monorail when this happened. How tragic.

[vizsla]

This is just such terrible news. Prayers for the drivers family.

[wedoada]

Here is a link with a couple of pics of the accident.

http://www.examiner.com/x-2200-Orlando-Theme-Parks-Examiner~y2009m7d5-Breaking-new-Two-monorails-crash-at-Disney-World-on-Epcot-line-one-Cast-Member-dead

Our thoughts and prayers go to the driver's family, friends and co-workers.

[goofygirl67]

I thought there were safety measures also for the monorail. We never seemed to come close to any other monorail when I have been on them. Hopefully there wasn't too many people on board. I am surprised no guests were with the driver, I thought that was the best when I went.

[Horizon93]

This is very sad news. I too, can't understand how this could have happened.

[kathiep]

How terrible for this CM's family. It will be interesting to follow the story to see what went wrong here.

[DunkinNut]

So so sorry to hear this.......prayers.

[Ian]

Wow ... those pictures give you an idea of just how the poor driver was killed. Monorail Pink appears to have, basically, completely penetrated the driver's compartment of Monorail Purple.

Shudder ..........

[Jimenyfan]

So sad, prayers are being sent to the CM's family.

[LandFan]

Wow. What awful news to wake up to! So sad.

[iheartdisney]

So tragic. I hate it when horrible things happen at my most favorite, magical place in the world. My prayers go to the CM's family.

[Marker]

This is simply aweful. Hope they can soon determine the cause, and implement any necessary system improvements to prevent this from ever happening again.

[dumbo_buddy]

so terribly sad. will be staying tuned for more info. thoughts and prayers for the driver, his family and the whole disney family

[John]

Living in DC and having a similar thing just happen here on our metro system... what are the chances the same thing would happen twice in a few weeks time. Especially given both systems have collision avoidance systems.

Wierd.

My thoughts go out to the cast members family and the entire WDW team. It's pretty horrible to have a tradgedy like this happen on such an iconic system/ride.

You have to wonder how long the system will be down as well - and if those two rail cars will ever see the light of day again.

[Ian]

Is it just me or has this just been a ridiculously miserable past month or so?

Consider all of the following that's happened:

Air France crash kills 228 people off the coast of Brazil
A Yemenia Airlines plane with 153 people on board crashes into the sea off the Indian Ocean
A train wreck on the D.C. metro system kills 9
Michael Jackson dead at 50
Billy Mays dead at 50
Farrah Fawcet dead at 62
Ed McMahon dead
Karl Malden dead
Steve McNair shot to death at age 36
WDW monorail crash kills 1

[pianobabe]

My thoughts and prayers go out to the family and friends of the CM who was killed. Also to all those others who were involved. I am sure it will be something they will be replaying in their minds for sometime to come. I hope it can be determined what caused this.

[MinnieMommie]

There was minimal information about this on the news this morning. Thank you all for the details. It will be important to learn exactly how this was able to happen with all the safeguards Disney has in place. This is a real tragedy and my prayers are with the driver and his family.

[ransam]

My friend just texted me and told me the news...this is horrible. I am so sorry for the drive and his family. RIP

[caryrae]

Pretty sad news. So what happens when something like this happens? Does the Monorail system close down for a while for an investigation?

[Piglet822]

Currently the monorail is not running and buses are being used to take its place.
My heartfelt condolences to the friends and family of the driver and all those involved. :(

[TennesseeTink]

Ian, I was just thinking the same thing. There's sort of an eerie feeling in the air with all of these tragedies and deaths.

My prayers for the CM's family and everyone else involved in this horrible accident.

[Bethis26fan]

How very sad. Thoughts and prayers for the family.

[Victor Kelly]

This from Wiki.

Train safety
Safe train spacing is maintained via a moving blocklight system, referred to as MAPO, installed in the cab of each train.[4] MAPO appears in the top center of the pilot's console and looks similar to a horizontal stop light. There are three lights—green, amber, and red—and a push-button labeled "Override". The term "MAPO" itself comes directly from Walt Disney, who formed a new company to deal with Disneyland's transportation system directly from the profits made by Mary Poppins.[9]
Each monorail beam is divided into blocks based upon pylon numbering. The currently illuminated MAPO color indicates how far ahead the leading train is currently located. A green MAPO shows that the leading train is 3 or more blocks ahead, amber means 2 blocks ahead, and red indicates that the next train is in the very next block. A block is roughly between 500 and 1000 feet (about 150 and 300 m) long, although this varies. The start of each block is called a "hold point", as pilots may need to hold their trains at that location until the train ahead moves away. Guests riding in the front cab of a monorail can identify hold points by the yellow reflective tape around a pylon's number and by two yellow reflectors attached to the top outside edges of the monorail beam at that pylon.
For safety, trains must be kept at least two blocks apart during normal operation. A red MAPO indicates that train spacing has become unsafe. When a red MAPO occurs, the train's on-board computer locks out the pilot's propulsion control and applies emergency brakes. The pilot cannot resume control of the train until either the MAPO clears or the pilot presses and holds the MAPO override button.[4]
It is the pilot's responsibility to avoid a red MAPO during normal operation. When the MAPO switches from green to amber, this indicates that the monorail is approaching the train ahead. The pilot must stop the train before crossing into the next block of beam way and hence before the MAPO switches to red. Should a pilot cross the hold point and receive a red MAPO, this counts as a safety demerit against the pilot. If the pilot ever has three demerits on their record, then they will be transferred out of the monorails department and into a different role at Walt Disney World.[10]
Safety tests are performed daily to ensure that the MAPO system is working properly on each train. At the direction of the monorail station conducting the test, each train will intentionally overrun a hold point to verify that a red MAPO occurs and that the emergency brakes activate. Pilots perform tests in forward and reverse when bringing a train onto the system for the first time that day, and a forward test is again conducted mid-afternoon. The indications are called into Monorail Central with the emergency brake pressures.
A red MAPO will also occur when the pilot approaches a section of un-powered beam, a spur line, or a switch beam thrown in the direction of a spur line. Pilots must engage the MAPO override when moving trains through a switch to the spur line. MAPOs occurring due to safety tests, switching, or beam power loss do not count as demerits against the pilot.

[IloveDisney71]

:(
This is simply aweful. Hope they can soon determine the cause, and implement any necessary system improvements to prevent this from ever happening again.

Ditto! This is so sad.

[jimsgal05]

My thought and prayers go out to the driver's family and to all that were down there....

So sad that this happened...thankfully it was not worse than it was....


much sympathy to the family of the driver,

The Morse family

[princessimagineer]

this really has been an unfortunate month!

thoughts and prayers =[

and i hope everything from here goes smoothly with cleaning up the accident and getting the monorails back and more safer than ever soon enough.

i go to college only 1 metro stop away from where the crash was in DC a few weeks ago. im home in my real home in NJ but to think that mass transportation crashes have happened in BOTH my other homes really crushes me.

[Figment78]

Have they released the name of the driver yet? My husband's family has a dear friend who drives one of the monorails for WDW. We have not been able to reach him yet. Please let us know if anyone find out the name of the driver!

TIA

[Melanie]

Oh goodness, that video is awful. How sad! :(

[jrpersinger]

Have they released the name of the driver yet? My husband's family has a dear friend who drives one of the monorails for WDW. We have not been able to reach him yet. Please let us know if anyone find out the name of the driver!

TIA

They have....

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/orl-disney-world-monorail-crash-070509,0,2802055.story

[crltkcagle]

This is just awful! I don't understand how it happened, hopefully they will be able to figure it out. My thoughts and prayers are with the family of the CM.

[SBETigg]

So sad! I didn't think this could happen. I'm so sorry for the driver's friends and family, but I'm also glad that it was late and the monorails weren't packed. Only 8 people aboard. This is agonizing to see. What a nightmare for Disney.

[magicofdisney]

That video is awful. It's almost like watching a movie; like my mind doesn't want to accept the reality of that situation. :(

[eandrsmom]

My thoughts and prayers are with the family of the driver. Whether it was driver error or system failure, it is still a tragedy. I thank God that there were no guests riding up front.

[SBETigg]

Reading up on MAPO (thanks Victor) I don't even see how this could possibly have happened. Will see what investigators turn up. I'm just heartsick over it this morning. And to think of WDW functioning without monorail on such a busy day, not that it matters considering the safety of guests is paramount and the loss of the driver is so sad.

[Goof42]

This just doesn't make sense unless either the driver was incapacitated in some way [asleep, already passed away, other medical issue] and the computer safety system [MAPO] completely failed.

The only other option which I shudder to consider is that it was intentional. If the MAPO was overridden, there's no way the pilot could have not seen the train ahead if he was conscious.

We are supposed to go next week and my DW is a basket case...she says she'll never ride again but it's my DS's favorite attraction so that seems unlikely...

My condolences to all affected by this tragedy.

[BluewaterBrad]

very sad. Prayers to the CMs family and for all involved.

[Daisy'sMom]

Its such a horrible thing. When anyone gets killed in an accident, it is terrible. When it is a young person with his whole life before him, it is most tragic. I can only feel pain for his family. May they find peace.

[sisterslovindisney]

Just horrible! Thoughts and prayers to the family and friends of this young man and all who witnessed the accident.

[MNNHFLTX]

Living in DC and having a similar thing just happen here on our metro system... what are the chances the same thing would happen twice in a few weeks time. Especially given both systems have collision avoidance systems.That was my thought too, John. It appeared to be a similar situation, except that the moving training hit the stationary train head-on, instead of from the rear.

Very sad. :(

[Pastcastmemberdaughter]

[QUOTE=Goof42;1915763]This just doesn't make sense unless either the driver was incapacitated in some way [asleep, already passed away, other medical issue] and the computer safety system [MAPO] completely failed.
QUOTE]

First off, my thoughts and prayers to the families of the CM and to all those involved.

This was my exact thoughts too, how weird.

I refused to watch the rest of that video as soon as I saw what it was. To think that someones thoughts were to get this on video and then sell it to a news agency makes me sick!:mad: If this CM's family saw this video they would probaby be even more heart broken then what they already are. But this is just MHO.

Anyway again, thoughts and prayers to the families.

[SBETigg]

Just watched that video and it is aweful and sickening... The driver had to collide at a high rate of speed, I would think, to do such damage... And those kids on the platform having to witness that, I could only imagine what is going through their minds.... I think I will no longer ride in the front of the monorail anymore...

I'm pretty sure that the family/kids pictured in the video were on the monorail when it happened and got off safely. I wouldn't let it stop me from riding the monorail. I've been in car accidents and I still ride in cars. I have faith that the system will be thoroughly checked and the cause will be discovered and repaired before the system is back up and running. It might stop me from riding in front, though. Chilling footage.

[brewcrew26]

I was just reading the Monorail tweets on Twitter and an Orlando area station posted a link to the driver's Facebook page. IMHO, very bad taste. I feel so sorry for his family and friends.

[SorcererJim]

Horrible news... very sad. We have be "co-pilots" many times and seen the system that goes into protecting the guests on that line. One time our driver even made a comment about how he is glad there are humans in control of the monorails unlike the one in vegas. He said he has had to make manual adjustments all the time due to traffic and such (obviously refering to the MAPO system).

However I do have one issue.. I am all for freedom of information, but I think that intercot should remove the link to that video out of respect to the young man who died in that crash. That video, while giving the rest of us a perspective on that crash, is very disturbing if you stop to think about what you are REALLY looking at.

Thoughts and Prayers to the families involved.

[DreamFinder2]

A very sad day...the video is just sickening. I hope they take it down soon. I've already emailed the station's news director with my thoughts...I advise you to do the same.

[Tinkermom]

Oh how sad! My prayers go out the the driver's family and friends. Wondering if the driver became unconscious and even if he did sounds like there was a system failure with the emergency braking system according to what was posted about the MAPO system.

We are heading to WDW next Monday. I wonder how long the monorail system will be down? Don't know if we will be comfortable riding in the front of the monorail now for a long while if only for the fact that it will bring on sad feelings.

[DreamFinder2]

Another thought...the crash clearly happened INSIDE the TTC, yet in several of the still photos I've seen, it looks like the monorails are sitting on track outside of the TTC building. Did they move the trains? Would that even be possible?

[mjaclyn]

This is terrible... at least the family wasn't riding up front in the monorail with the driver. I'll never do that again for sure. I feel so badly for the driver's family. I'm thinking something must have happened to him before the crash because he wouldn't have just let the monorail crash into another at full speed. If there was a malfunction he at least would have slammed on the breaks or something before it happened. It was 2 am so I wonder if he was asleep, but it's hard to imagine that he could fall asleep during the very short ride from Contemporary to the TTC.

[RedSoxFan]

Very sad and tragic. The video is disturbing too. Prayers for his family.

[joanna71985]

This is so sad! Prayers going out to all involved. :(

[Tinkermom]

I But, I will no longer request sitting in the pilot pit of the monorail... Something also tells me they will no longer allow guests sitting with the pilot...

You know, I never really thought of that. You might be right! :(

[Dixie Springs]

Just saw the post-crash video. What was disturbing to me was the CM shooing away the video camera. That won't play well in the larger media. The CM should have been more interested in penetrating the car to do do some CPR or something. He just made it look like there was something to hide.

[Buttercup]

Just awful. :(
Question though: why does it look like the crash happened outside on the track and then in other photos, it looks like it happened inside the TTC station? Did it crash and 'push' inside the station?
So sad to see these photos on CNN right now. :(

[DisneyOtaku]

This is so tragic. I never worried about a monorail crash before, because I knew about the safety system, and when on board I could see out the window and saw a great distance between mine and the other monorail when we were stalled and waited for clearance to go.

Thoughts and prayers out to the family of the driver.

[DisneyOtaku]

Just awful. :(
Question though: why does it look like the crash happened outside on the track and then in other photos, it looks like it happened inside the TTC station? Did it crash and 'push' inside the station?
So sad to see these photos on CNN right now. :(

I wonder if it crashed right outside the building, but then they had to carefully move the trains in to get everyone off, since the video shows them getting off at the TTC

[Ed]

Many prayers for the family of the CM. They must be devastated. :(

I seriously doubt if the driver was incapacitated before the crash; I'm sure I've read that the monorails are equipped with a system similar to railroad engines, commonly referred to as (grimly) a "dead man's switch". If the operator's grip on the controls is lost(e.g., if the operator falls asleep or becomes unconscious), it automatically cuts power and applies the brakes.

I would anticipate that in the future riders will not be permitted in the driver's compartment.

It hasn't been clarified yet, but I don't believe that this was a "head-on" crash; rather, it was more likely a "rear-end" collision, and the driver of the second train was injured by the impact, or needed medical attention due to the traumatic experience. One local TV station reports that he was taken to a hospital "as a precaution".

Obviously, there's a lot of speculation at this stage of the investigation (my own included); let's hope that the exact cause can be pinpointed and future accidents avoided.

[HollyB]

My thoughts and prayers go out to the family and friends of the monorail driver.

We rode up front with the kids a couple of times. The drivers explained Mapo to us. It seems so impossible that this could happen. I hope they can figure out what happened quickly.

So sad.

[JPL]

Very Sad News :( My thoughts and prayers go out to all of those involved.

The video is rather disturbing but very telling and I highly doubt that it will be pulled from the internet since it is legitimate news.

I hate to speculate of these things but it makes you wonder about the maintenance on the trains. I would have to guess this was some sort of equipment/software failure. I'm guessing the system will be closed for quite some time until they sort out exactly what happened and upgrade the safety systems.

I also find it very interesting that it happened on one of the busiest days of the year. Makes you wonder if they were trying to increase capacity and failed to adjust the system properly.

[2Epcot]

That is very sad news. Prayers go out to the family, guests, and all involved in the tragedy.


And to think of WDW functioning without monorail on such a busy day, not that it matters considering the safety of guests is paramount and the loss of the driver is so sad.

I was thinking the same thing. While not the most important thing, certainly a terrible time for WDW to be without the monorail operating.


Something also tells me they will no longer allow guests sitting with the pilot...

That is probably true, and sad. We rode in the front of the monorail one of my more recent visits. One of the friends I was with at the time later became a monorail operator during his recent college program.

[wildernesslady]

Being that it was one of the busiest days at DW, it is a miracle that more were not hurt. Such a sad day for all involved. We are all deeply saddened.

[AmandaChan]

So sad! Feel so bad for the driver's family but things could have been a lot lot worse!

[Dr. Disney]

Prayers for the family of the driver and for the guests who are down there now. I can not imagine. especially as a child, how traumatic!

[Davyjones]

A very sad day. :( Everyone's thoughts and prayers are with all those involved in this horrific accident. Hope that they can figure out how this happened so that they can prevent anything like this from happening ever again.

[PiratesCove]

My prayers go to the young man's family and friends! I also feel sorry for the people who had to witness it. The video brought tears to my eyes.

[Tinkermom]

Many prayers for the family of the CM. They must be devastated. :(

I seriously doubt if the driver was incapacitated before the crash; I'm sure I've read that the monorails are equipped with a system similar to railroad engines, commonly referred to as (grimly) a "dead man's switch". If the operator's grip on the controls is lost(e.g., if the operator falls asleep or becomes unconscious), it automatically cuts power and applies the brakes.

I would anticipate that in the future riders will not be permitted in the driver's compartment.

It hasn't been clarified yet, but I don't believe that this was a "head-on" crash; rather, it was more likely a "rear-end" collision, and the driver of the second train was injured by the impact, or needed medical attention due to the traumatic experience. One local TV station reports that he was taken to a hospital "as a precaution".

Obviously, there's a lot of speculation at this stage of the investigation (my own included); let's hope that the exact cause can be pinpointed and future accidents avoided.

In looking at the video one monorail rear-ended another. I too hope that they are able to figure out the cause to prevent any future accidents. :(

[PirateLover]

The video is chilling. The pilot was younger than myself... Rest In Peace. Hopefully as Marker said, Disney gets the cause figured out and corrected ASAP.

It's odd, we were stuck on the track for a good 10 minutes on our recent trip waiting for clearance, and they also did a test of the emergency stop. I think we were on Monorail Black. Sometimes my mind goes down a morbid path and I had a discussion with my fiancee about the best way to brace myself if something crazy happened like the monorail falling off the track. Two weeks later and we have a crash... tragic.

[TracyL]

As hard as it is to avoid, speculation about an accident like this usually does more harm than good. First someone says "I can't believe it could have been X so it must have been Y," then others head off in many directions and pretty soon we have full-blown conspiracy theories and nightmare scenarios for which there is no evidence at all.

Accidents very rarely have a single cause. Most often they are caused by an "error chain" (yes that's a technical term) -- some combination of factors including failures of humans, machines and pure dumb luck. Until a full investigation is done, we're not going to know what really happened. Until we know what really happened, it's not useful to speculate about the accident itself nor about the implications (will they let guests in the front car in the future, will I ever go on the monorail again, etc. etc. etc.)

Most likely we're going to find out this accident was a result of a "perfect storm" of several factors -- a one-in-a-million thing. And WDW will certainly correct whatever needs to be corrected to make sure it never happens again.

Meanwhile, the best use of our energy is to keep the drivers' families, and the unlucky guests who were there when it happened, in our thoughts and prayers.

[dizneefan67]

My heart goes out to the family of Austin Wuennenberg, the driver of the ill-fated monorail at WDW. Its an awful thing to happen to someone young and full of dreams. I am very confident that Disney will do the very best to make sure that something like this doesn't happen again. Once is enough! My prayers go out to ALL whowere involved, the co-workers, the friends and family members. May you all find comfort in Christ during this tragic time!

[goofy78]

:sad:

Unbelievable! Thoughts and prayers go out to the family and we hope they are receiving all the support needed to get through this tragedy.

[barnaby]

Thoughts and prayers to everyone invovled.

Chilling video - especially when they are trying to get a response from the driver.

[MinnieMommie]

Is it just me or has this just been a ridiculously miserable past month or so?

Consider all of the following that's happened:

Air France crash kills 228 people off the coast of Brazil
A Yemenia Airlines plane with 153 people on board crashes into the sea off the Indian Ocean
A train wreck on the D.C. metro system kills 9
Michael Jackson dead at 50
Billy Mays dead at 50
Farrah Fawcet dead at 62
Ed McMahon dead
Karl Malden dead
Steve McNair shot to death at age 36
WDW monorail crash kills 1


and Gale Storm...this is a sad and hard time

[DisneyAggies]

Just terrible! Prayers for Austin's friends, family, and co-workers.

I will be interested in seeing what the investigation uncovers.

[LibertyTreeGal]

I saw the picture and just cried and cried.

My prayers and with all who were affected by this tragedy.

[Captain_Nemo]

I wonder if it crashed right outside the building, but then they had to carefully move the trains in to get everyone off, since the video shows them getting off at the TTC

if you youtube it, the CNN coverage has an eyewitnesss stating that pink collided into purple right outside TTC. the trains were slowly moved into TTC to get people out and it is easier being level for the rescue effort, aswell as putting the horrific seen out of veiw of media and guests. ex. roof covers it from news choppers.

[brownie]

Just saw the post-crash video. What was disturbing to me was the CM shooing away the video camera. That won't play well in the larger media. The CM should have been more interested in penetrating the car to do do some CPR or something. He just made it look like there was something to hide.

He wasn't equipped to get into that mess, and the last thing you want is someone filling any victims of something like that. He really should have been moving all the guests in the area away from the scene of the crash.

[Ian]

He wasn't equipped to get into that mess, and the last thing you want is someone filling any victims of something like that. He really should have been moving all the guests in the area away from the scene of the crash.I think the poster was speaking strictly from an appearance and PR standpoint.

While I agree with you that the CM did what he should have done, the poster was right in that it won't play well in the general public ... especially if it turns out Disney was somehow at fault.

[nicster]

Accidents very rarely have a single cause. Most often they are caused by an "error chain" (yes that's a technical term) -- some combination of factors including failures of humans, machines and pure dumb luck.
Most likely we're going to find out this accident was a result of a "perfect storm" of several factors -- a one-in-a-million thing. And WDW will certainly correct whatever needs to be corrected to make sure it never happens again.

Very insightful, I agree. If Disney could have foreseen this as even a remote possibility, they would have had safety measures in place, & I am sure the info that they get from this tragedy will give them the ability to insure against a repeat.

[garthbarth1]

Ok, so a quick question as I am a little confused on what exactly happened? The driver im the front of the pink monorail crashed into the driver in the back of the purple monorail? Or were there two drivers in the pink one and not any in the purple? I thought there was only one driver, and that it is driven from the front, not from the back? Sorry for the confusion... Prayers to the family in this hard time.

[Ed]

Ok, so a quick question as I am a little confused on what exactly happened? The driver im the front of the pink monorail crashed into the driver in the back of the purple monorail? Or were there two drivers in the pink one and not any in the purple? I thought there was only one driver, and that it is driven from the front, not from the back? Sorry for the confusion... Prayers to the family in this hard time.

That still has not been definitively answered, but most reports indicate that Pink was totally stopped in the TTC station and Purple slammed into the rear of Pink. The driver of Purple was alone in the front car of his train and died from his injuries. Presumably, the driver of Pink was at the far end of his train, and was only taken to the hospital "as a precaution".

[Maryln8]

Just saw the post-crash video. What was disturbing to me was the CM shooing away the video camera. That won't play well in the larger media. The CM should have been more interested in penetrating the car to do do some CPR or something. He just made it look like there was something to hide.


It appeared to me that the CMs were confused and disorientated and when they realized someone was taping they jumped into action. It was disrespectful for someone to videotape that. The camerman was doing NOTHING to help anyone or the situation. The only one helping was the man in the dark blue striped shirt, he was asking if anyone was hurt , he went from car to car and then finally in some other pictures you can see he opened the door to the cockpit. EMS wasn't even present yet. It doesn't appear to me anyone was tring to hide anything but some poor dying soul.

[Wayne]

I think the poster was speaking strictly from an appearance and PR standpoint.

While I agree with you that the CM did what he should have done, the poster was right in that it won't play well in the general public ... especially if it turns out Disney was somehow at fault.

Who really gives a hoot what the general public thinks. This video shows what has just happened in a terrible accident with CMs on the scene probably in shock over what had just occurred.


It appeared to me that the CMs were confused and disorientated and when they realized someone was taping they jumped into action. It was disrespectful for someone to videotape that. The camerman was doing NOTHING to help anyone or the situation. The only one helping was the man in the dark blue striped shirt, he was asking if anyone was hurt , he went from car to car and then finally in some other pictures you can see he opened the door to the cockpit. EMS wasn't even present yet. It doesn't appear to me anyone was tring to hide anything but some poor dying soul.

And although the clip may be "newsworthy", I have to wonder why a site that pride's itself on being "family friendly" feels a need to provide the link.

[Ian]

Everyone needs to remember that that video was taken before anyone knew for sure how serious the situation was.

There was nothing "disrespectful" about shooting the video as the cameraman was not aware that there had been a fatality.

[Marker]

As hard as it is to avoid, speculation about an accident like this usually does more harm than good. First someone says "I can't believe it could have been X so it must have been Y," then others head off in many directions and pretty soon we have full-blown conspiracy theories and nightmare scenarios for which there is no evidence at all.

Accidents very rarely have a single cause. Most often they are caused by an "error chain" (yes that's a technical term) -- some combination of factors including failures of humans, machines and pure dumb luck. Until a full investigation is done, we're not going to know what really happened. Until we know what really happened, it's not useful to speculate about the accident itself nor about the implications (will they let guests in the front car in the future, will I ever go on the monorail again, etc. etc. etc.)

Most likely we're going to find out this accident was a result of a "perfect storm" of several factors -- a one-in-a-million thing. And WDW will certainly correct whatever needs to be corrected to make sure it never happens again.

Meanwhile, the best use of our energy is to keep the drivers' families, and the unlucky guests who were there when it happened, in our thoughts and prayers.

Thank you, thank you, thank you! My thoughts exactly. Speculation and a conspiracy hunts really serve no good purpose.

In my opinion, let's leave the determination of what happened to those in a position to have the factual information. A bad situation is not helped by the spread of hasty, inaccurate, conclusions.

[DisneyAggies]

Everyone needs to remember that that video was taken before anyone knew for sure how serious the situation was.

There was nothing "disrespectful" about shooting the video as the cameraman was not aware that there had been a fatality.

Yes, but is it disrespectful to post a link to it AFTER we do know it was fatal?

I think that's the issue people have with the link.

[Dixie Springs]

Please hold the flames. As Ian said (and the point I was writing from), nobody knew there was a fatality when the video was taken. Let's dispense with the moral issue of filming a mortality. I'm terribly sorry for the driver and his loved ones, but the 'videographer' was not in the way whatsoever. The fact that the CM interrupted his (understandably) confused rescue attempt to chase away a camera was disturbing to me. It looked like he suddenly recalled a company policy to obscure any footage of an on-site accident. It looked like castmember safety took a back-seat to PR. Sorry.

[disneygeek84]

How terribly horrible. My prayers go out to his family and friends.

The only thing that bothers me about the video is the sudden reaction of the family and hearing the little girls start crying. That's almost more chilling than anything. And I think the CM handled everything as best as he could. They aren't trained for something like this.

[John]

Folks - I personally made the decision to link to the video. That being said - if you choose not to view it, don't click thru on the link.

For me, it not only was news and provided some insight on how and where the trains collided, but showed how folks reacted - both cast and normal people. Even with the horrible tradegy, I was also glad to see normal folks jump in ready to help and try and rescue - even if the wdw employees (it looked) decided to hold them back.

It was a tough call for me - but I stand by posting the link. I also respect everyone's individial choice on whether they want to view it or not. I have added a disclaimer.

[JDisney]

We are seeing more and more of this lately, the California train crash, the DC crash not too long ago. With all this automation operators are getting complacent. Sure 99.9999999% of the time they aren't even needed but that one sliver of percentage they need to be paying attention to hit the brakes they are day dreaming or texting their girl friend.

[John]

We are seeing more and more of this lately, the California train crash, the DC crash not too long ago. With all this automation operators are getting complacent. Sure 99.9999999% of the time they aren't even needed but that one sliver of percentage they need to be paying attention to hit the brakes they are day dreaming or texting their girl friend.

Pure speculation here (So take it as such) but is it possible that the front train was actually backing in the station to eventually move forward and then switch tracks - and that the driver was in the train already in the station, and just couldn't react quick enough to get the train out of the station or out of the cab?

In that state, does the driver of the monorail backing up actually switch ends to drive, or do they control the train from the front?

I am not a monorail expert so I have no clue.

[crazypoohbear]

Folks - I personally made the decision to link to the video. That being said - if you choose not to view it, don't click thru on the link.

For me, it not only was news and provided some insight on how and where the trains collided, but showed how folks reacted - both cast and normal people. Even with the horrible tradegy, I was also glad to see normal folks jump in ready to help and try and rescue - even if the wdw employees (it looked) decided to hold them back.

It was a tough call for me - but I stand by posting the link. I also respect everyone's individial choice on whether they want to view it or not. I have added a disclaimer.

Well said John,
I personally think it does show human nature at work. the cast member was doing his job. that could have been his friend in there and he could have been trying to sheild the public from seeing anything that would be upsetting.
I'm sure he did not have extensive (if any) 1st aid training and did the right thing. If you know you can't help the injured DON'T TRY! Moving an injured person could do more harm than good.
Also, I wish to send my condolences to the family, friends and co workers of this young man.
May God rest his soul and provide comfort to his loved ones.
God bless you young man

[Marker]

We are seeing more and more of this lately, the California train crash, the DC crash not too long ago. With all this automation operators are getting complacent. Sure 99.9999999% of the time they aren't even needed but that one sliver of percentage they need to be paying attention to hit the brakes they are day dreaming or texting their girl friend.

To my knowledge, there has been no publicly announced cause of his tragic accident. Therefore, any speculation that anyone was "day dreaming or texting their girl friend" has absolutely no basis in fact, and in my opinion serves no useful purpose at all and it totally not fair to any of the people involved.

[Goof42]

we'll have no speculation... ;)

dunno about backing up but it would make more sense if he was backing up and was not in the back of the train because then he wouldn't necessarily have seen the other one...

wait, i'm speculating...

not sure why speculation bothers some people...it helps me try to comprehend things better and work through it. I wonder if the same people concerned about speculation here have their TVs tuned to CNNHN and TMZ which is doing nothing but speculating about MJ for the last week...wait, i'm speculating again...oh well can't win. :(

[iheartdisney]

Important things to remember:

1 - This is the FIRST and only accident involving a death on the WDW monorail system since it was implemented almost 38 years ago.

2 - According to the info Melanears posted, one of the very, very, very few accidents involving injury of ANY kind.

3 - The CM's family and anyone who witnessed this tragic accident. May they all have courage and comfort during this difficult time.

[John]

wait, i'm speculating again...oh well can't win. :(

I think where it's thoughtful - looking at the events, seeing how the trains operate and searching for a reason makes sense. It's totally normal for all of us to wonder how something so out of the ordinary can possibly happen and to be curious to look for a cause.

To immediately blame the operator or suggest that they were not paying attention because they were texting or goofing off serves no useful purpose and is out of line.

Is operator error a possibility - sure... but lets stay away from assigning blame and try to look at this from a logical and methodical standpoint - and maintain respect for the poor driver who perished in this tragic accident.

Thanks.

[dudeman1975]

I heard pink was backing up to put the train away for the night had to switch onto the magic kingdom express line where he can then switch into the shop unfortunately he did not realize the track was not switched by control and may not of checked the rear view mirrors to make sure he was switching, and backed up at 15 mph onto the same epcot track where monorail purple was approaching and ran right into monorail purple. There was a MAPO ovride in use.

My thoughts and prayers to all the families.

[caryrae]

How long does it take the Monorail to stop if a driver were to "slam on the brakes"?

[Ian]

How long does it take the Monorail to stop if a driver were to "slam on the brakes"?Like anything else, it depends on the speed they're traveling.

You can only safely brake a vehicle to a certain degree and then the braking itself becomes a safety hazard due to the g forces from the rapid deceleration (which is really what an accident is).

At very low speeds, I've been on board when they do emergency brake tests and they come to a full stop in just a few feet. But that's traveling at maybe 10mph tops. I'd guess if they were full out ... in the 45mph range as they are on the high speed portion of the Epcot line ... it would take a good bit of space to stop a train with that much mass.

[Chescat]

My thoughts go out to this Cast Member's family. And also all the kids that are in the College program with him. This will be a big shock for them and all the other Cast Members :pixie::pixie:

Through investigation they'll figure out what went wrong.

[Victor Kelly]

It seems everyone has heard something somewhere or other. Can We all keep the speculation of the what ifs to a minimum.

I mean I heard Elvis was still alive. But that does not mean that I believe it because there is no conclusive proof of the statement.

So.............Until an investigation report states facts, reasonable possibilities, and undeniable proof of the facts, I will not engage in any sort of discussion with speculation about what happened.

I will comment on a few things thus far that I have observed from the pictures, video and posts here.

First, I see a terrible accident that claimed the life of a human being. Who was at fault is furthest from my mind.

Second I saw people moving into action during an accident situation trying to help. The cast member was most likely in shock and began acting to minimize dangers to those around the site.

Third, I back John Y in his posting of the link. While it is horrible, and disturbing, many people have to grow a bit of a thicker skin. Life is unpleasant, that is why all of us Love Disney, because it gets us away from real life for a short while. Flame me if ya want, do it in PM though, the forums are no place for a flame war.

Fourth, I am glad to that so many people feel sympathy for those involved and for the one who lost his life. Above all, we must all remember a life was lost, and that there are means of trying to prevent loss of life, but they sadly do not always work.:sadwave:

[Georgesgirl1]

My heart goes out to the family and friends of the CM who passed away and to the people who witnessed this terrible tragedy. What an awful thing to experience!

I think the CM who told the person to stop video taping did exactly the right thing. And I don't think it had anything to do with him remembering a policy regrading PR. I think this guy saw a video camera and thought, "Should this be on video to be shown on news networks and youtube?" Out of respect to the family of the victim, the answer is no. God forbid the CM hadn't told the person to turn off the video camera and he had gotten shots of the cast member. How awful would that have been for an already grieving family!

[DisneyAggies]

Ok, certainly my post wasn't construed as flaming--was it? :confused: I was merely trying to provide insight and thought there was an interesting correlation.

In the case it was interpreted as a flame--I never did state whether I thought it was right OR wrong to post the link on icot, nor would I ever want to make that decision, that's why you're running the show here, John!

[John]

Ok, certainly my post wasn't construed as flaming--was it? :confused: I was merely trying to provide insight and thought there was an interesting correlation.

In the case it was interpreted as a flame--I never did state whether I thought it was right OR wrong to post the link on icot, nor would I ever want to make that decision, that's why you're running the show here, John!

Don't worry - you are fine...

[Altair]

For what it's worth, NBC reported tonight that Purple was finishing it's final run of the night.

[caryrae]

My wife just found the driver on Facebook. Not sure if this is OK to post the link but here is a link to a Facebook page dedicated to the driver (Austin) where you can leave a message.
http://www.facebook.com/s.php?q=Austin+Wuennenberg&init=q&sid=52b75320200e7c9fcf4e263528634744#/group.php?gid=100203833438

Pretty neat idea, one of the people (must be a Cast Member) said,


I think that every one that is a castmember at Walt Diney world should donate 1$ each for the family there is over 62,ooo of us and if every one donates that would help for the coast of every thing i dont know who to talk to about this but i think its a great idea i would deff give money tord this!!!!!!

I'm sure Disney would help out too.

[Red Randal]

This is such an incredibly tragic bit of news and my heart goes out to the cast member's family and friends.

I think there are a lot of interesting and worthwhile topics to discuss/argue/examine/etc. from this event including the CM stopping the cameraman, the video being posted, the potential neglegence of one (or both) of the drivers, the system, etc.

(John: Perhaps consider splitting the thread at some point in the future? 1 for condolences, 1 for news, and 1 for speculation?)

Now, that having been said, the Orlando Sentinel is now quoting a witness who says "you could tell from the sound it was going faster than normal, then came the impact which sounded just like a terrible automobile accident." Obviously you can't go 100% on what this witness says but this might seem to debunk the theory that Pink backed into Purple.

HOWEVER, the backing up idea might make sense in that, perhaps, if Purple and Pink (1 going forward, 1 back) both tripped their amber MAPO at the same time, neither would have had time (or, even, the inclination) to immediately slow down.

Lastly, and like many have said, it doesn't do a whole lot of good to speculate and I also hate to be the first person to say this since it's entirely possible there was no human error involved. But, it was 2am on one of the busiest holiday weekends of the year. I know CM's who work 50, 60, or more hours a week during busy holidays. How long was this kid driving the train that day? Fatigue could have very easily played a role. I know it's a huge part of CM's lives (not to mention salaries) but if this proves to be the case Disney is going to have to seriously consider cutting the amount of overtime they allow CM's to work.

Just my two cents and like others have said, the most important thing now is to pray for the families while the experts sort out the details.

[Andys5Toys]

What a horrible thing to happen on a holiday (or really ever).
Your heart sure goes out to this young man and his family.

[PAYROLL PRINCESS]

My sympathy and condolences to the family, friends and co-workers of Austin during this difficult time.

[CaptainDisney]

We, as a monorail family, are grieving. I think it's safe to say that the cast members are in as much shock (or greater) than the guests. The thoughts and prayers are welcomed and appreciated.

You are all well-informed. As always, this site is a reliable resource for WDW information. Even as a monorail cast member, I have little to add to the discussion. It will likely be some time (days/weeks) before a cause is understood and articulated to the public.

In response to recurring questions, I offer the following:

1) Yes, the system has a seemingly redundant anti-collision system (referred to as the "MAPO") system.

2) No, that system has never failed before, and is tested twice a day on every train, in forward and reverse (not to mention the times it's been tested in actual operation).

3) As has been mentioned, these trains are also equipped with a "deadman's switch." Driver health issues, falling asleep, text messaging, etc. are highly unlikely to have caused this accident.

As John says, speculation is only natural. I've run over a million scenarios in my head since I first heard about this terrible incident, and none seems plausible. Therefore, as natural as it is to speculate, I am quite sure that the actual cause(s) is something none of us can imagine. As was mentioned, catastrophic accidents are often caused by error chains. This incident is likely one of those situations. I cannot piece together a likely scenario in my head (save the grisly thought that some have mentioned about intentionality). Of course the safety planners involved in this system could not forsee this chain of events either, or else it would have been prevented from happening.

Many of you have mentioned memorable rides with the driver in the front of the monorail. It's also been mentioned that he/she often talked with pride about the system's safety record and it's advanced safety systems. I have always spoken proudly as well. Truly, we all believed something like this to be impossible. We are all in utter shock.

[diz_girl]

My thoughts and prayers go out to the driver's family. I can't imagine the loss that his parents are feeling tonight.

[Catzle]

Very Very sad for everyone involved. The young man who died, his family and all the CM's of Disney. Those who witnessed it. Sad day for sure!

[julie0282]

My prayers go out to the CM's family.

[CaptainSad]

Ok, so a quick question as I am a little confused on what exactly happened? The driver im the front of the pink monorail crashed into the driver in the back of the purple monorail? Or were there two drivers in the pink one and not any in the purple? I thought there was only one driver, and that it is driven from the front, not from the back? Sorry for the confusion... Prayers to the family in this hard time.


All trains have two controls. One in the forward and one in the stern. They don't back up the trains from the front...

[cmshelton1979]

This is horrible. My prayers go out to the family and friends.

I love riding the monorail and I was there in May and probably rode the monorail about 15-20 times. We sat up front once and talked to a younger driver, I wondered if it was the same guy :(

I was wondering if they will take the crashed trains off until they are fixed or if they shut down the monorail and fix these on the monorail??

My wife told me she won't ride anymore. I told her it will be more safe than ever now because of this. Sad to say but its true. Just like they say the safest time to fly is after a plane crash.

Will you ride the monorail or will you stay away from it now?

I do see changes coming for it such as someone mentioned no more cockpit rides.

[Red Randal]

The Orlando Sentinel (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/orl-disney-world-monorail-crash-2-070509,0,4851944.story?page=1) has updated their article on the crash with some more biographical information on Austin. Let's just say that this makes the accident even more tragic, if that's possible.

[Figment78]

They have....

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/orl-disney-world-monorail-crash-070509,0,2802055.story

Thank you very much. We are relieved to know it was not our friend. We have spoken with him as well and he is very shaken up but ok. Thank god.

Prayers to the cm's friends and family. How awful to go thru this.

[JPL]

I was wondering if they will take the crashed trains off until they are fixed or if they shut down the monorail and fix these on the monorail??


They will take them to the roundhouse where they do maintenace on the trains. They have a disel engine that can tow them.

[pigletpie]

This is horrible. The Driver's family, friends and fellow castmembers are in my prayers. So very sad.

[Skippy]

All trains have two controls. One in the forward and one in the stern. They don't back up the trains from the front...

The trains may not run normally from the opposite side, however the trains can be backed up.

If the train was switching tracks (which seems to be the front runner in my little black speculation book), it wouldn't be unreasonable -- and has been posted elsewhere is the norm-- for the pilot to back the train over the switch to go to a different track.

I've ridden in front while a MAPO test was performed, including doing a MAPO override. Our train was tested forward, and the train in the station attempted to back into ours.

It's a horrible tragedy, and a shame that it took the life of a young CM.

[badkitty]

What a horrible tragedy. I just heard about this and I am deeply saddened by the loss of such a young man. My heart goes out to his family and friends. I also have sympathy for the other driver and guests on the train. So sad.

[DigitalDaredevil]

Although no one ever wants anything like this to happen, unfortunately it does happen.
Let us all remember that the parks are very safe with the exception of rare incidents that are bound to happen. You are safer in the park than you are in many of our cities.
Prayers to the victim and his family, and to those who had to observe this horrible accident.

[Aurora]

How tragic for this to happen to someone so young and apparently in doing his dream job. I am so sad for his family.

I had more to say but have reconsidered posting it.

Captain Disney, I appreciate your unique perspective. Thank you for sharing your private thoughts about this.

[grumpyguy]

just terrible,terrible,terrible...
i feel so sorry for the family of the driver.
it would have been a horrific thing to have witnessed...
not very magical:(

[clou1028]

The Orlando Sentinel (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/orl-disney-world-monorail-crash-2-070509,0,4851944.story?page=1) has updated their article on the crash with some more biographical information on Austin. Let's just say that this makes the accident even more tragic, if that's possible.


Oh my. It's absolutely heartbreaking. I feel terrible for his family.

[clou1028]

Many of you have mentioned memorable rides with the driver in the front of the monorail. It's also been mentioned that he/she often talked with pride about the system's safety record and it's advanced safety systems. I have always spoken proudly as well. Truly, we all believed something like this to be impossible. We are all in utter shock.

Thank you for your thoughts. I am so very sorry you lost your coworker. Hugs and prayers to all of you.

[John]

All trains have two controls. One in the forward and one in the stern. They don't back up the trains from the front...

Actually they do.

They can drive both in the front cab and rear, but in a track switching operation like I suspect caused this crash, the monorail would be driven in reverse from the front cab.

[yjgirl32]

SO tragic. M thoughts and prayers go out to Austin's family. friends, co-workers, etc. So young.

[irish1967]

Will you ride the monorail or will you stay away from it now?

Absolutely - when Disney re-opens the monorail and declares it safe - that will be good enough for me. There are rides at Disney that people have died on and I still get on those.

CaptianDisney Thanks for your insightful post. My thoughts and prayers go out to not only the victim's immediate family, but his extended Disney family as well.

[DizneyRox]

One thing that is totaly apparent is Disney's reliance on the monorail (and their inability to accomodate without it).

Having it down for a couple days (possibly more) is really putting a dent on transportation. The Grand is probably bearing the brunt of it since the only other transport is small boat, and there are not enough boats to accomodate everyone (or staff to man them, I'm not sure).

Currently, there are a ton of busses, some Disney, some not, pretty much all over the TTC area. They are trying to shuttle monorail resort guests with busses as well, but the backups are just insane. The only thing going for them right now is how insensitive it would be to complain, but it's pretty apparent that they are not equipped to handle this type of disaster.

I'm not sure how many monorails DIsney needs to run to keep things going smoothly, but having two out of the mix is probably going to have long lasting impacts on property. Will they replace them, repair them, or upgrade all? We'll have to wait and see...

[CaptainSad]

Actually they do.

They can drive both in the front cab and rear, but in a track switching operation like I suspect caused this crash, the monorail would be driven in reverse from the front cab.


Thanks for the info John. It's nice to have Cast Members in the know...

[TiggeRia]

Will you ride the monorail or will you stay away from it now?

I certainly intend to keep riding the monorail. While this was a sad, tragic event, one death in 38 years is a much better track record than say driving a car, riding a bus, or more recently flying in a plane. Life is full of risks and you can't stop living because of scary events. I'm sure Disney will thoroughly investigate and take every measure to fix the problem. Once they are back up and running I will be happily waiting in line to get back on. Pixie dust and prayers to this CM and his family/friends.

[Anthony]

Has anyone considered that this could be the end of the Monorail system? I heard that they have been looking at alternatives for years. What are the chances that it will not reopen?

Anthony

[diz_girl]

One thing that is totaly apparent is Disney's reliance on the monorail (and their inability to accomodate without it).

Having it down for a couple days (possibly more) is really putting a dent on transportation. The Grand is probably bearing the brunt of it since the only other transport is small boat, and there are not enough boats to accomodate everyone (or staff to man them, I'm not sure).

I guess that the never-built bridge over the canal in-between the MK and GF would have come in handy in this situation. That way, people could walk to both the GF and the Poly from the MK, so there would be another way to ease the congestion on the boats.

[DizHawk]

Has anyone considered that this could be the end of the Monorail system? I heard that they have been looking at alternatives for years. What are the chances that it will not reopen?

Why would this be the end of the monorail? One accident in 38 years? You are safer on the monorail than on an airplane flying into MCO or a car driving there. My completely uninformed opinion is that it will reopen soon.

[Marker]

Has anyone considered that this could be the end of the Monorail system? I heard that they have been looking at alternatives for years. What are the chances that it will not reopen?

I really don't see that happening at all. Unless it is somehow determined that the entire monorail system is failing or is deteriorating beyond repair that would seem to be an over-reactive response.

One serious event over all the years, and literally millions of people transported does not mean the system has suddenly become unsafe, especially if the cause turns out to be human error. They'll discover the cause and take the necessary steps to correct it, be it machanical, electronic, or procedural.

When I return to WDW in September, assuming the system is up and running, I will board the monorail without giving it a second thought, trusting that it is as safe, or safer, than ever before. And yes, if given the opportunity to ride up front, I will gladly do so.

Accidents happen everywhere. People die on airplanes, in cars, on sidewalks, on stairs, even in bed and I have yet to avoid using any of them.

But that's just me.

[Skippy]

Has anyone considered that this could be the end of the Monorail system? I heard that they have been looking at alternatives for years. What are the chances that it will not reopen?

Anthony

Not likely in my opinion.
First, it's iconic. Second, the parking area is still a ways away from Magic Kingdom. People are going to have to get there somehow. Last, unfortunately, CMs have died on rides before. America Sings, one got caught in between the scenes and was crushed. It may lead to new safety feature being installed, better operating procedures, or just that everybody needs to follow the procedures already in place.

[DizHawk]

Oh, and it is reopening today.



Jason Garcia
Sentinel Staff Writer 10:20 AM EDT, July 6, 2009


Walt Disney World is reopening its monorail system today -- with new safety sensors added to monitor track switches, according to a note to employees this morning.

The move comes a little more than 24 hours after a predawn collision killed one monorail pilot. The collision occurred as one of the trains was being transferred off the system's Epcot line, which ferries guests between the Magic Kingdom and Epoct, according to Disney's note.

Disney told its employees that investigators with the Occupational Safety and Health Administration have "released" the monorail system back to the theme park.

"We have completed a thorough safety inspection and system checks to verify that it is safe to operate the monorail for our guests and cast," Disney said. "We've added additional verifications of these track switch positions, supplemented our safety procedures and protocols for these operations, and communicated these changes to our Transportation partners."

A Disney spokeswoman could not be immediately reached for comment.

[Marker]

Oh, and it is reopening today.

That's good to hear. Make corrections, and get back to it.

[drummerboy]

A couple of observations:

1. I'm wondering whether the train that was coming in was going all that fast, because (a) it was pulling into a station, and (b) I'd think there would have been much more damage to both trains and injury to the passengers on board had it been going that fast.

2. I'm glad Ian pointed out that whoever was taking the video had no idea that there was a fatality at the time it was being taken. As far as watching the video--curiosity is a natural part of being human; it's built into us.

In the meantime, my thoughts are with the driver's family.

[valjane]

Do you think Disney will ever release details about what actually happened, or just ignore it and pretend it never did?

[Priority Four]

The fact that it is running again is a strong indication that they have determined the cause.

How terrible for the CM and his family. My prayers are for them today.

[TheRustyScupper]

1) I have resisted comment until this time.
2) I have designed big trucks, buses, firetrucks and maglev vehicles.
3) And, each has built in safety devices and collision avoidance systems.
4) But, let me say this about fool-proofing.
5) Fools are smarter than I am.
6) There is nothing that can be built that cannot be
. . . manually overridden
. . . mechanically failed
. . . humanly interrupted
7) Let's face it, when investigations are done, the cause(s) can only be
. . . human error
. . . mechanical failure
. . . combination of both
8) Until a conclusion is reached, we are all guessing.


NOTE: I can think of many scenarios, from operator stupidity to mechanical failure, but none are worth speaking. Whatever the cause(s), let's hope they can be prevented in the future.

[Marker]

Do you think Disney will ever release details about what actually happened, or just ignore it and pretend it never did?

Ignore it and pretend it never happened? Not likely. They'll investigate the cause and take whatever corrective action is necessary to correct it, and perhaps they already have.

Will they release details, probably not. But that doesn't mean they didn't do anything. I would suspect there are legal issues involved that would prevent them from full & total disclosure. I really wouldn't expect them to.

[Belle_0717]

To set everyone's mind at ease, I am sure Disney will release the findings. I am not sure what to think - was it human error or machine error? All I have to say is we are thankful it was not a mid-day crash when families & other guests would have been sitting with the driver. The accident could have been much worse if that was the case.

I have all faith in Disney that they will do the right thing and cannot wait to ride the monorail again in November. "Please stand clear of the doors; Por favor mantenganse alejado de las puertas."

[big blue and hairy]

4) But, let me say this about fool-proofing.
5) Fools are smarter than I am.
6) There is nothing that can be built that cannot be
. . . manually overridden
. . . mechanically failed
. . . humanly interrupted

Exactly right. The term fool-proof is like bullet proof, it's not proof it's resistant.

:sulley:

[cgriff]

Rode the resort line monorails on July 3rd. Monorail red for one ride; not sure the color of the other. Made a MAPO stop between Grand Floridian and Magic Kingdom. Everything working fine.

This seems like a tragic accident. It won't dissuade me from riding the monorail in the future.

[KAJUNKING]

this is very sad and terrible, my prayers and thoughts go out to the family

[murphy1]

Just awful! John, I have no problem with you posting the video. No one thought the Titanic could sink, it's a terrible tragedy and there is always an inherent risk. I am surprised there has never been an incident happen in all these years.

[iluvdumbo]

I feel so bad for the CM's family and friends. Thoughts and prayers are being sent to them.

[Ian]

I know this tragedy is fresh in everyone's minds, so maybe that has something to do with it but .......

I am constantly amazed at what a dismal job most human beings do at assessing risk.

The idea that people would be perfectly fine with riding in a bus from the airport or around the resort, but scared to climb on the monorail is just astounding to me.

Your risk of being killed in a bus crash is probably about 7 trillion times higher than it is to be killed in a monorail crash. The monorail has operated for 38 years, probably carried hundreds of millions of passengers, and one has been killed. One. And a cast member at that. Not a guest.

I mean obviously one death is one too many, but really ... to even imply that the monorail is somehow inherently risky ...

[DisneyAggies]

As for us, we will be riding the monorail. It is one of our boys favorite things to do (as well as riding in the front).

I still believe (even after the accident), that the monorail is safe. I read somewhere that it carries 50 million guests a year and has been running (at WDW) about 38 years now. At that rate (I know it's NOT been that high every year) it's like 1.9 billion people, and one accident.

As far as Austin, I can see he had a true love for Disney and the monorails. It comforts me to know that he was doing something he loved.

[Nascfan]

What a tragic accident at what is usually the happiest place on earth. My prayers are with Austin's family.

I must echo Ian's and DisneyAggie's sentiments. One accident of this type, one death, in 38 years of operation? That's got to be the best safety record ever, for anything.

We'll be riding, and riding up front if we're lucky again, on our next visit.

[Melanie]

My heartfelt condolences to Austin's family and friends. Just a terrible accident. :(

That said, I have no qualms about riding again either. The safety record speaks for itself a thousand times over.

[big blue and hairy]

The idea that people would be perfectly fine with riding in a bus from the airport or around the resort, but scared to climb on the monorail is just astounding to me.

Your risk of being killed in a bus crash is probably about 7 trillion times higher than it is to be killed in a monorail crash. ...
Especially after what I saw and reported to Disney. In two days driving around WDW I saw no less than 3 WDW busses run red lights!!!

:sulley:

[Aurora]

...Will they release details, probably not. But that doesn't mean they didn't do anything. I would suspect there are legal issues involved that would prevent them from full & total disclosure. I really wouldn't expect them to.

I would expect them to be required to release many details. The monorail is not technically a public transportation service per se, in that it's run by a private company, but it does have a responsibility to inform the public about safety details and what it's doing to keep the public safe.

I find the company statement that they "added additional verifications of these track switch positions, supplemented our safety procedures and protocols for these operations, and communicated these changes to our Transportation partners," to be inadequate.

Yes, it was lucky that more people weren't aboard, and that no one else was injured, but obviously that wasn't predetermined in this accident. I hope that just because it was Disney the public doesn't give the company a pass, assuming that they're going to "do the right thing." In order for that to happen there has to be some transparency.

[Ed]

Do you think Disney will ever release details about what actually happened, or just ignore it and pretend it never did?

This accident is being fully investigated by at least two governmental agencies - - the Orange County Sheriff's Office and the Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA); those reports are public records, subject to full public dissemination.

I'm glad to see the system is back up and running. I'll be at the Contemporary this Thursday, and I will make a point of riding the monorail to reaffirm my personal confidence in the system's safety. And as the train makes its way along the rail, I'll say a heartfelt prayer for Austin and the other CMs so traumatized by this tragedy.

[DisneyBabies]

First off, my thoughts and prayers go out to the family and friends of Austin along with the entire Disney family. This is a horrible tragedy and will take those most involved in it a long time to recover.

But I would also like to say that my thoughts and prayers go out to the driver of the other monorail as well. He is certainly going to have to live with a lot of guilt no matter what the investigation reveals.

I am also thinking about the family who was on the monorail when the accident occured and I hope that they are all doing ok.


A few CM's have posted on several other sites what is believed by the CM's (at least some of them) to have happened. This is not known fact, it is just bits and pieces given from different CM's that are being put together as a whole theory. From looking at the photos and the video, I have to say that it seems to be a very plausible explanation.

The control center told monorail pink to override the MAPO and back up (CM's weren't in any way sure about why pink had to go in reverse) which meant that he would back up all the way to the concourse. However, no one was in the control box to see first hand if the concourse was clear. So, monorail pink did what he was told, not realizing that no one was in the control box to verify that it was safe to back up. Monorail purple was stopped in the concourse when the monorail pink hit it, not realizing it was there.

There were some wondering why Austin did not get out of the pilot room when his MAPO started going off (all the CM's agreed it would have once the pink got too close) but unfortunately, the MAPO doesn't tell you why it is going off, so he may have been looking at the panel to find out what the problem was. Some also wondered why he didn't back up and the idea was put forward that the kill switch made that impossible.

And of course there are questions about why the monorail pink driver was not looking in his mirrors while he was in reverse to make sure everything was clear and he was on the right track. As well as the questions about why control would authorize the monorail pink to override the MAPO without anyone being there to watch and make sure that everyone was going where they were supposed to go.

I would not be surprised if this (or something close to it) turns out to be the reason for the crash. I guess all we can do is wait and see, but I think the fact that the monorail is operating again so soon means that all indications are that this was just a terrible, one time occurrance.

[renecat]

Last Dec. when we were there we rode alot.
Many times we stopped on the tracks because we were getting to close to the one ahead of us. So does this mean drivers don't have the means to stop if they see something up ahead of them?

[BigRedDad]

I feel so sorry for Austin and his family. This is tragedy beyond compare.

I am not an expert on the monorail and I have only been getting pieces of information from different news outlets. The last bit I just read said the Austin's monorail was waiting at the station and it was the other one that ran into his. Not sure if that is true or not. However, the two monorails hitting head to head on the monorail track is confusing to me. I thought they only traveled in one direction to and from Epcot.

I don't think we will get too many details from the accident. OSHA is strictly for health issues and will not publish findings unless there is a public health issue. The Orange County Sheriff's office will be on a tight leash as well. WDW is one of the largest employers in the area and they are facing large unemployment already.

[Imagineer1981]

wow, this has been an amazing and sad story. My prayers go out to his family, and I have a feeling human error will be the cause

[GrumpyFan]

The control center told monorail pink to override the MAPO and back up (CM's weren't in any way sure about why pink had to go in reverse) which meant that he would back up all the way to the concourse. However, no one was in the control box to see first hand if the concourse was clear. So, monorail pink did what he was told, not realizing that no one was in the control box to verify that it was safe to back up. Monorail purple was stopped in the concourse when the monorail pink hit it, not realizing it was there.


For the purpose of switching tracks for a return to the barn, Pink had to go in reverse. However, the pilot of Pink was under the assumption from control that his train was switching tracks, thus he was supposed to be in the clear. MAPO must be over-ridden to do the switch.



There were some wondering why Austin did not get out of the pilot room when his MAPO started going off (all the CM's agreed it would have once the pink got too close) but unfortunately, the MAPO doesn't tell you why it is going off, so he may have been looking at the panel to find out what the problem was. Some also wondered why he didn't back up and the idea was put forward that the kill switch made that impossible.
We may never know the answer to this. It's been speculated that maybe he was attempting to, because the doors were all closed, it's also been speculating that Purple was re-booting/starting which occurs from time to time. Regardless, and sadly he was unable to react in time to save himself, from a situation that wasn't supposed to happen.



And of course there are questions about why the monorail pink driver was not looking in his mirrors while he was in reverse to make sure everything was clear and he was on the right track. As well as the questions about why control would authorize the monorail pink to override the MAPO without anyone being there to watch and make sure that everyone was going where they were supposed to go.
From what I've seen, it's too dark for the mirrors to be effective, plus, based on the angle of the rail at that point, I have to wonder if the pilot would've seen anything but his own train until right before impact. From what I've read, this is fairly common practice.



I would not be surprised if this (or something close to it) turns out to be the reason for the crash. I guess all we can do is wait and see, but I think the fact that the monorail is operating again so soon means that all indications are that this was just a terrible, one time occurrance.

Based on the news of re-opening, and new sensors being installed in the switch, it kinda sounds like there might have been a malfunction in the switch, or even an operator error in switching.

[GrumpyFan]

I don't think we will get too many details from the accident. OSHA is strictly for health issues and will not publish findings unless there is a public health issue. The Orange County Sheriff's office will be on a tight leash as well. WDW is one of the largest employers in the area and they are facing large unemployment already.

Not entirely true. OSHA is the agency that oversees workplace Safety AND Health issues. They're a federal agency whose responsibility is to make sure employers provide a safe workplace. The findings they uncover, if not made available, may be accessible thru the Freedom of Information Act (FIFA). But, Disney may also be able to block some of that.

I could see it as a huge advantage publicity wise, to share some of the information, particularly some of the safety improvements made. Regardless, we'll just have to wait and see what happens with it.

[gueli]

First off, my thoughts and prayers go out to the family and friends of Austin along with the entire Disney family. This is a horrible tragedy and will take those most involved in it a long time to recover.

But I would also like to say that my thoughts and prayers go out to the driver of the other monorail as well. He is certainly going to have to live with a lot of guilt no matter what the investigation reveals.

I am also thinking about the family who was on the monorail when the accident occured and I hope that they are all doing ok.


:ditto::thanks:
:thumbsup:
All along I have been thinking about those who were there & those who were involved...
I also think of the guy who was trying his best to help- to get to the driver (not the CM) but the tired & exhausted park guest- who just did all he could think of to try and help.

As to the cameraman & the images being posted- I agree that they should be there. No one here is making anyone go & view them , heck they even come with a disclaimer.

As another comment- I have seen after the 9/11 tradgedies the NYPD telling camera people that 'this isn't disney' & to stop filming. I think in the end, some people can only think to document what has happened. I do not believe that it is wrong.
Condolences.
To the CM's (& family) who lost someone - I offer you my sincerest condolences.
Mike

[MNNHFLTX]

I don't think we will get too many details from the accident. OSHA is strictly for health issues and will not publish findings unless there is a public health issue.I do not believe this to be true. OSHA exists to protect the health and safety of workers in the workplace. Any incident that results in an injury or fatality to an employee must be investigated and the cause determined. If there is determined to be a failure on the the part of the employer in providing or enforcing proper safety practices, they will issue citations. If there is human error (not the responsibility of the employer) that will be determined too. In any case, this all should be reflected in OSHA's report, which will be available to the public in this incident the same way it has been in all other "accidents" at WDW or Disneyland. I have seen OSHA reports in my workplace in the past and they are very detailed about cause. The fact that they have already released WDW to start their monorail service back up makes me think there were specific things identified as the cause, which are presumably fixed or modified to preventing this happening in the future.

As far as the Orange County's sheriff's office, I agree that they will probably say very little about it except to verify that there was no criminal activity involved.

[fupresti]

I hate to be insensitive and a speculator, but the fact that OSHA released it so soon after the crash tells me this wasn't a mechanical or system error.

[joanna71985]

I hate to be insensitive and a speculator, but the fact that OSHA released it so soon after the crash tells me this wasn't a mechanical or system error.

I agree. I feel what happened was a mistake...a very tragic mistake.

[Ed]

Orlando Channel 9 is reporting that the National Transportation Safety Board is now involved in the investigation. This is the same federal agency that investigates aircraft and railroad accidents.

They are also reporting that guests can no longer ride in the cockpit with the monorail pilots.


Disney monorail accident: NTSB take unprecedented step of investigating fatal Disney World monorail accident

By Scott Powers and Sarah Lundy

Sentinel Staff Writer

6:27 PM EDT, July 6, 2009


The fatal monorail crash at Walt Disney World early Sunday will be probed by the National Transportation Safety Board in an unprecedented move by the federal agency, which normally investigates airplane and public-train crashes.

The NTSB has never before claimed jurisdiction at Walt Disney World, which has provided virtually all of its own safety oversight since it opened in 1971.

The 2 a.m. Sunday crash at the Disney World Transportation and Ticket Center killed Disney monorail pilot Austin Wuennenberg, 21, of Kissimmee. The driver of the second train suffered minor injuries. No passengers reported injuries.

After reviewing preliminary information gathered by Disney World safety investigators, the NTSB decided Monday afternoon to launch a full investigation. An investigator was to fly in from Los Angeles tonight.

The U.S. Occupational Safety and Health Administration and the Orange County Sheriff's Office also are probing the accident.

"We'll be going on scene and working with Disney there. We understand that OSHA is already involved," NTSB spokesman Peter Knudson said. "We'll be looking at operating control systems, and their procedures, and the different procedures they use on the monorail to position trains."

The NTSB investigation is unprecedented. Not only has the federal agency never before sought to investigate a monorail crash at either Disney World or Disneyland in California, Knudson said he could not recall a single investigation involving an all-privately owned transit system operating on private land. But he said NTSB officials determined that they have jurisdiction.

"It is a public transportation system," he said. "It is widely used."

In most states, state departments of transportation set and oversee the safety and operating standards of transit systems, and investigate accidents. There are only two public monorails in the country: One in Seattle that runs one train per track is overseen by the Washington Department of Transportation, while one in Las Vegas, Nev., that runs driverless trains is overseen by Clark County, Nev., authorities.

Due in part to unique Florida state laws written in the 1960s when Walt Disney World was first proposed, the giant resort's rides -- including the monorail -- have been outside the jurisdiction of many state and federal regulatory agencies.

The Florida Department of Transportation's Transit Office, which regulates rail transit systems ranging from the airport-terminal shuttles at Orlando International Airport to the Tri-Rail commuter rail line in South Florida, claims no jurisdiction at Disney World. Nor does the Federal Transit Administration, which also oversees such transit systems nationwide, or the Federal Railroad Commission. The Florida Bureau for Fair Rides Inspection compiles data on Disney ride accidents but does not investigate them.

OSHA's jurisdiction is clear, and that agency regularly investigates workplace accidents at Disney. Two investigators were reviewing the monorail crash site today to understand what happened and determine whether any federal standards were violated. The pair arrived Sunday from Tampa.

The first step for the investigators is to determine what happened. They will visit the crash site and speak to anyone who witnessed the accident. If needed, they will review the data on the monorail's computers.

OSHA spokesman Michael Wald said he did not know how long the two investigators would be at Disney, or how long their investigation would take.

"We are looking at any evidence we can find," Wald said. "We take that information and figure out why it occurred."

If you've ever read an NTSB aircraft accident report (and I've read hundreds of them), you know that NTSB goes into minute detail. I'm very confident they will be issuing a very comprehensive report. But don't look for it next week or even next month; their investigations often take a year or more.

[EeyoresBestFriend]

I'm pretty sure that the family/kids pictured in the video were on the monorail when it happened and got off safely. I wouldn't let it stop me from riding the monorail. I've been in car accidents and I still ride in cars. I have faith that the system will be thoroughly checked and the cause will be discovered and repaired before the system is back up and running. It might stop me from riding in front, though. Chilling footage.


Actually, I will have no problem riding it. After this sad incident, they will go over every aspect of the monorails, computer systems and track. It will probably be the safest thing in the World for a while.

[Ian]

They are also reporting that guests can no longer ride in the cockpit with the monorail pilots.Hopefully, that's just temporary while they sort out what happened.

[Faver]

Living in DC we went through something similar 2 weeks ago, unfortunately with more casualties......it's terrible


I send my prayers to the monorail driver, his family, friends and co-workers.

[DVC2004]

This is so sad! Prayers for all invloved.

[Marker]

While I too hope this is not a permanent change because I do enjoy riding up front occasinally, I can see how it would be a distraction to the pilot. I know when I've ridden up there I typically chat with the pilot, and that could indeed take his attention away from his primary task. So I could see how this could be a reasonable change.

I'm glad we got a chance to ride up front when we were last there in Sept.

[danwiora]

i know we have all been sitting here the past couple of days trying to figure what could have happend to cause that tragic event but has anyone sat and thought about what we can do as an intercot community to help Austins's family like starting a collection for them or coming up with an idea to honor him like start a petition to have a plaque or something in his rememberence at the ticket and transportation center or retire the color of the monorail he was driving in. something along those lines

[faline]

I am constantly amazed at what a dismal job most human beings do at assessing risk.

First, let me say that this is a very sad time for the family and friends of that cast member. And to each and every one of them, I'd like to say I'm sorry for your loss.

However, life is full of risk which we must confront each and every day. Most of us do not stop flying even after hearing of the most horrific of plane crashes. Most of us return to the ocean/pool/lake even after we are aware of the shark attack or drowning. I suspect that most of us have been involved in at least one car accident at some point in our lives but I also suspect we get back into cars on an almost daily basis.

On the other hand, I have witnessed people in situations which require more care to forge ahead despite what should be obvious danger - the folks I saw hiking the trails at the Grand Canyon who were totally unprepared to be in the wilderness or who climbed a tree at the top of a ledge to get a better picture or who stepped out on an out of bounds ledge for the same reason; the folks that I saw balancing children on the railings high above the raging currents at Niagara Falls. The folks who head into the ocean despite red flag warnings and a lack of life guards.

This incident would not prevent me from using this form of transportation again. If allowed, I would even love to ride with the pilot once again! On the other hand, you probably could not pay me enough to go on a helicoptor tour at any popular tourist destination!

[goofygirl67]

The writers of the latest artical doesn't have all their facts correct, Jacksonville has a monorail also. This accident will not prevent me from riding the monorail again, however I will miss riding up front.

[Victor Kelly]

I and the rest of my family will continue to ride the monorails when we visit. I have the utmost confidence in the CMs in every area of the WDW transportation system, and I always will. My future father-in-law said it very plainly tonight at dinner "Disney is one of the safest places to be on the planet". He is right.:thumbsup:

[FlaTinkRAMESAM]

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hQkSBcJYEealqbWm6v_FoKe1gknAD9996ILG0

Witness says Disney monorail crash was "head-on"

By MIKE SCHNEIDER – 3 hours ago

ORLANDO, Fla. (AP) — A witness to the monorail accident that killed a train operator at Walt Disney World over the weekend described it as "a head-on collision" between two trains in a 911 call released Monday.

"A monorail was waiting to come into the station ... or it did not leave the station, and the other one cleared through the station, and there was a head-on collision," the male caller said.

The accident occurred as the park resort was closing early Sunday and one train was being transferred off the rail line, said Zoraya Suarez, a Disney spokeswoman. She declined to describe the circumstances of the crash further.

Austin Wuennenberg, 21, died of multiple traumatic injuries in what's being considered an accident, said Sheri Blanton, a spokeswoman for the medical examiner's office in Orlando.

The Occupational Safety and Health Administration said Monday it will investigate whether workplace safety rules were broken before one monorail train crashed into another, said Mike D'Aquino, a spokesman in Atlanta for the federal agency. The investigation could take as long as six months.

If citations are issued, Disney World could be fined thousands of dollars. The Orange County Sheriff's Office in Orlando also is investigating the death.

In another 911 call, a male Disney worker described hearing "a big bang."

"There's an issue with the monorail. Something happened," the caller said. "We just heard a loud bang and my manager ran in and told me to call you."

The monorail system, which shuttles thousands of visitors around the sprawling resort each day, was shut down Sunday but Disney officials reopened it to visitors Monday afternoon. Workers performed test runs on the system earlier in the day.

Suarez said extra measures to verify that the track switches are operating properly have been put into place, although she refused to be more specific.

"All I can say is there are additional verifications," she said. "We've supplemented our safety procedures and protocol."

No guests were seriously injured in the first fatal accident in the 38-year history of the park's monorail.

The medical examiner's office won't issue a final report on Wuennenberg's death until it finishes toxicology tests, which are standard in any unexpected death, Blanton said.

Wuennenberg was a computer science student at Stetson University in nearby DeLand. Friends said he scheduled his classes around his Disney job.

Each train in the monorail system is run manually by the operator and must keep roughly 300 yards apart from each other. If a train gets too close to another, the train will automatically shut down and the operator will be replaced at the next stop, said Joseph Humphrey, a 30-year-old former Walt Disney World monorail operator, who stopped working at the resort in 2004.

A train operator has an emergency stop button at hand which can halt a train, as well as a button that can override the computer and allow the train to continue.

"For this accident to have occurred, one of two things had to happen," Humphrey said. "Either the computers had to have catastrophically just failed or someone had to have engaged an override button."

Copyright © 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.

[Ian]

... has anyone sat and thought about what we can do as an intercot community to help Austins's family like starting a collection for them or coming up with an idea to honor him like start a petition to have a plaque or something in his rememberence at the ticket and transportation center or retire the color of the monorail he was driving in. something along those linesThere's a Facebook group dedicated to his memory that's working on some of those things. You might want to check it out.

[CU Tiger]

What a tragedy. Our thoughts and prayers go out to his family. I am shocked there were no other passengers up front. We always ask to ride up front and it is usually full. I bet the next day was real somber for the CMs.

[TracyL]

I for one am very glad to hear that the NTSB is going to investigate this. If I were Disney, honestly, I'd have invited them. The NTSB is better at accident investigation than anyone. Their thorough examination of every nook, cranny and shred of metal will provide valuable insight into the cause of this accident.

As another poster said, though, it could easily be a year before that report comes out, so don't hold your breath. On the bright side, NTSB reports are government documents and will become public record upon release. So for those of you who want an in-depth and detailed explanation of what happened and why, you're in luck -- you are going to get it.

[Aurora]

I for one am very glad to hear that the NTSB is going to investigate this. If I were Disney, honestly, I'd have invited them.

:ditto:

[GrumpyFan]

Interesting that NTSB is stepping in. I'll be interested in seeing their report, eventually.

[John]

The NTSB investigation is unprecedented. Not only has the federal agency never before sought to investigate a monorail crash at either Disney World or Disneyland in California, Knudson said he could not recall a single investigation involving an all-privately owned transit system operating on private land. But he said NTSB officials determined that they have jurisdiction.

First of all - let me say I am all for a complete accounting of what went wrong, who did or didn't do what and what steps are being taken to resolve it - all reported to the public.

That being said - am I the only one a little bothered by the Feds determining that they have jurisdiction in this case? It's one thing if they were invited in to help with the investigation, but them claiming jusisdiction here seems a little bit far reaching.

At a minimum, shouldn't this be a local or state matter? :confused:

[JPL]

A witness to the monorail accident that killed a train operator at Walt Disney World over the weekend described it as "a head-on collision" between two trains in a 911 call released Monday.


Basically this is an easy mistake to make since the trains look identical in the front and back. Chances are had it been "head-on" both drivers would have been killed based on the pictures and video I have seen.


As for the NTSB getting involved it seems like they are over stepping their authority unless it depends on the number of people carried by a system that determines their jurisdiction.

[GrumpyFan]

I'm with John on this, i agree that there should be a full accounting/investigation, but I'm a bit bothered by the NTSB's stepping in as well. My first thought was that they don't really have jurisdiction, and I'm still not completely sure they do. However, according to the code under which they fall, they can step in when they see fit.

If you're interested, you can look it up on their site. Or, PM me and I will send you the link. I read thru it and nowhere could I find anything specific or exclusive of private property. It reads as follows:


excerpts from:
United States Code Annotated
Title 49. Transportation
Subtitle II. Other Government Agencies
Chapter 11. National Transportation Safety Board
Subchapter I. General

1131. General authority (a) General.--(1) The National Transportation Safety Board shall investigate or have investigated (in detail the Board prescribes) and establish the facts, circumstances, and cause or probable cause of--

(C) a railroad accident in which there is a fatality or substantial property damage, or that involves a passenger train;

(F) any other accident related to the transportation of individuals or property when the Board decides--
(i) the accident is catastrophic;
(ii) the accident involves problems of a recurring character; or
(iii) the investigation of the accident would carry out this chapter.

1134. Inspections and autopsies (a) Entry and inspection.--An officer or employee of the National Transportation Safety Board--
(1) on display of appropriate credentials and written notice of inspection authority, may enter property where a transportation accident has occurred or wreckage from the accident is located and do anything necessary to conduct an investigation; and
(2) during reasonable hours, may inspect any record, process, control, or facility related to an accident investigation under this chapter.



It kinda sounds like their authority is pretty broad, if not somewhat ambiguous.

[Aurora]

The National Transportation Safety Board shall investigate or have investigated ... and establish the facts, circumstances, and cause or probable cause of--

(C) a railroad accident in which there is a fatality or substantial property damage, or that involves a passenger train;


This doesn't seem ambiguous to me and seems to be within the NTSB's jurisdiction. There was a fatality and it was a passenger train. I'm assuming the NTSB never before took an interest in the monorail because there had never before been a fatality.

[Crow]

whatever happened and whoevers investigating....its a shame that someone died.
this is terrible for the family and for Disney.

[chrim]

First of all, I am saddened to hear of the monorail accident at WDW and of the death of a cast member. My condolences to his family.

I am happy to hear OSHA and especially happy to hear the NTSB is investigating the accident. They are doing so to protect the future safety of WDW guests and cast members. No matter how well an organization is run, there is always room for improvement, and I hope the investigations and any findings only serve to prevent any future accidents.

With this said, I am puzzled to hear there is shock and displeasure about the NTSB getting involved. Let me offer you some thoughts:

I have not yet hear anyone criticize OSHA for getting involved. If I were (hypothetically) a greedy corporate executive running a shady company, I think I would rather be investigated by the NTSB than OSHA. OSHA can fine me. OSHA can force me to change my business. OSHA might even be able to shut me down. In contrast, the NTSB cannot arrest anyone, cannot mandate a change in behavior, cannot levy fines, cannot shut down a business. NTSB findings cannot be used as evidence in criminal court. Yes, the NTSB can hold press conferences and write about the accident, but that is the worst they can do.

In the aviation world, the NTSB acts as an appeals court and can overturn FAA punishments, reinstate licenses revoked by the FAA, and the like if the punishment is judged unfair, unwarranted, or too severe. Thus, it is a good thing to have the NTSB get involved.

The NTSB has jurisdiction to investigate any transportation accident. Transportation can be via aircraft (plane, helicopter, balloon, or blimp), train, ship, car, truck, or pipeline. The transportation can be of people OR cargo. An accident is an event where the transportation vehicle is substantially damaged and/or one or more people is killed (whether employee or passenger does not matter, whether the deceased was or was not on/in the accident vehicle does not matter). At WDW, there was a death and thus there was an accident.

The NTSB has been investigating subway/trolley/light rail accidents as types of railroad. In fact, the NTSB web site talks of current investigations of both the Boston and Washington D.C. subway systems. I have no trouble saying a monorail system is as much of a railroad as a subway.

The NTSB commonly investigates accidents of privately owned vehicles not transporting paying passengers. The NTSB investigated the JFK Jr. plane crash even though that was a private plane used for a private flight. I don't remember anyone complaining about the NTSB getting involved then.

The NTSB certainly can and does commonly investigate accidents occurring on private property. Most railroads own the land under their tracks (these are "right of ways"). The same can be said for pipelines. Thus, an NTSB investigation on WDW land is no different than investigating a train accident on land owned by railroads like CSX, FEC (Florida East Coast), Union Pacific, etc.

The NTSB can be prevented from investigating accidents outside of the USA. WDW is governed by the Reedy Creek Improvement District, but that is still part of the USA.

The NTSB is only pushed aside for criminal investigations, acts of terrorism, acts of war, etc. Letting the NTSB take the lead could be seen as an indication that this being treated as an accident and not as a criminal event.

WDW could, in theory, try to argue that the monorail system is an amusement park or fair ride and not a transportation system. But, after calling it their "highway in the sky" and using other like names, I think WDW would look foolish to call it anything but a mode of transportation.

End of rant. Thank you for those that read all of this.

For the record, I am not, nor have I ever been an employee of the NTSB. Nor have I ever been investigated by, or participated in an investigation by the NTSB.

I have used the contents of NTSB reports at work, however.

[Marker]

Frankly, I'm not really surprised at all with the involvement of the NTSB, in fact that was one of the first thing I thought of when I first heard of this. And like others have mentioned, I'm not really sure why there would be concern about the NTSB involvement.

Disney needs to take every step possible to discover the cause and take necessary steps to improve the system safety so as to prevent this situation from ever occuring again. They have to concern themselves with both the safety of passengers and cast members as well as avoiding liability issues.

I would not be the least bit surprised if Disney welcomed, or perhaps even invited the NTSB to assist in the investigation.

[DisneyLover65]

My Prayers go out to the family. We were there when it happened. You know if the family had rode up front with the driver they would have been killed too. We have rode up front many times before, but this has changed my mind of ever doing it again. I think they shouldn't let anyone ride up front again.

[VolMickey]

...You know if the family had rode up front with the driver they would have been killed too. ...

Scary thought, for sure.

[sgdisney]

This is just such a sad story for Austin's family, friends and co workers. It sounds like he was one of the cast members that truly embraced the Disney Magic and passed that on to those around him.

Does anyone know if he by chance worked in the AK last summer? Reason I'm asking is a dear friend of mine was there last August and she had a wonderful encounter with a CM named Austin in front of the tree of life. They were posing for pics in front of the Tree and CM Austin stopped, took off his poncho (rainy day), laid it on the ground, laid down on it and took their picture to get them and a great shot of the Tree of Life in the picture. In conversation, this CM told her his first name and that he was a college student at a nearby school that was not familiar to her. The pics posted of him look familiar and she thinks this may well be the same person.

[fupresti]

First of all - let me say I am all for a complete accounting of what went wrong, who did or didn't do what and what steps are being taken to resolve it - all reported to the public.

That being said - am I the only one a little bothered by the Feds determining that they have jurisdiction in this case? It's one thing if they were invited in to help with the investigation, but them claiming jusisdiction here seems a little bit far reaching.

At a minimum, shouldn't this be a local or state matter? :confused:

Come on now, I think this is just a isolated example of the government getting involved in private business.

Wait a second...

[gueli]

... We have rode up front many times before, but this has changed my mind of ever doing it again. I think they shouldn't let anyone ride up front again.

I respectfully disagree. If you and your family choose not to do it, fine. But let others make their own decisions.
Mostly the drivers seemed quite cautious when we were upfront, not distracted by the passengers, certainly telling stories, but primarily paying attention to their JOB.

In any accident, the ones upfront are most likely to be injured. This does not stop the NYC subway from keeping passengers out of the 1st car. Or any train/commuter system from keeping passengers out of the front of a train.

I shall wait & hear what disney, osha, Sheriffs office & NTSB have to say about how the crash occured, why and the chain of events that led to the crash.
Also keep in mind this is the only fatal accident in 38 years...(yes and 1 is too many)...
:mickey:

[GrumpyFan]

Also keep in mind this is the only fatal accident in 38 years...(yes and 1 is too many)...


To only have 1 fatality in 38 years of operation is an extremely good track record for ANY system that handles such a high volume of people. It's a mechanical system, made up of many many moving parts and people, accidents are prone to happen. Machines/parts fail, and people do too, and when they do accidents are nearly unavoidable. Pardon my harshness here, but we live in an imperfect world, the consequences, sadly, are sometimes fatal.

[BrerGnat]

I think it's a good thing that the NTSB as well as OSHA are involved at this point.

CLEARLY someone made a very horrible mistake. At this point, it looks to be mostly human error, judging by the fact that the monorail is back up and running so soon afterward. I suspect that if they thought it was a mechanical/software failure of the MAPO system, the monorail would be out of commission for QUITE some time, in order to completely test ALL the trains, the systems, the software, etc.

If left up to Disney, they'd likely (and I hate to say this, but I feel like it's the truth), gloss the event over since it didn't involve more guests, and go about their business.

I think the NTSB/OSHA investigation will force Disney to re-evaluate their way of doing things, and change their protocol for MAPO overrides, since that seems to be a key ingredient in this tragedy.

Just going by the story floating around the internet about what happened (and, until that's confirmed, here I go SPECULATING)---IF that is indeed what happened, shame on Disney for allowing it! It would be inexcusable for them to allow a pilot to back up a train in the dead of night without a set of "eyes" on the concourse to be a guide. Perhaps a result of staff cutbacks? Who knows, but that is just wrong.

At the very least, I feel like the practice of "backing up" monorails seems careless to begin with. Isn't that why they designed them with pilot bays on both ends? If the monorail needs to be backed up, it should just be driven from that end instead...

And, a pilot should NEVER be in a position whereby he/she is TRAPPED inside the cockpit, unable to escape a situation like that in which Austin found himself. There should, at the very least, be a one way door from the cockpit into the first car, as a means of egress during an emergency...

This whole thing just saddens me to no end. It just has "shouldn't have happened" all over it. There seems to be no explanation that could ever make any sense...:(

[John]

Being a small federal government guy and one who believes the power should reside with the states - who better know how to handle issues in their area/locality - anyone who knows me wouldn't be suprised that I question when the feds step in and demand jurisdiction. :secret:

I think there are far too many areas where the greater good is used as an excuse to flex the federal collective muscle where it doesn't belong. But that's an argument for another day / thread.

As I understand it, since the WDW Monorails are used as the basis for a commercial transportation system (LV Monorail) - that probably lead to the NTSB wanting to get involved.

I still don't think they should be there except to consult or make recommendations and definately shoudn't have the lead, but that's the great thing about opinions - it's just the way I feel.

[Ian]

I kind of have to agree with Nat ... with all accepted caveats in place (don't have the final accident findings, don't know for sure what happened, etc.) if (and I stress if) it turns out that what basically happened is a guy overrode MAPO, backed up, couldn't see, had no one to assist him in backing up, and ran into another monorail killing the driver ... that's a pretty big chain of failures. It actually kinda makes me wonder how this kind of thing has never happened before.

I mean, if nothing else, the driver of the other monorail should have left the front of his train and moved to the back so he could "back up" going forward.

If this kind of thing can occur, I have to say that it really seems like all the safety systems they have in place more provide the illusion of safety than anything else. From all appearances, the MAPO can basically be overridden by anyone, with no approvals, no back-up in place, and no real oversight whatsoever.

That seems ... odd ...

[GrumpyFan]

I mean, if nothing else, the driver of the other monorail should have left the front of his train and moved to the back so he could "back up" going forward.


But then, he still would've been blind when "backing up" leaving the station before the switch occurred. I think the easiest and safest solution would be to just have another CM (doesn't have to be a pilot) in the other cab with some kind of communication device when backing up or making the switch. This way they have "eyes" to see what's on the other end. As it was, he was blind and completely reliant on Central as to what was behind him.



If this kind of thing can occur, I have to say that it really seems like all the safety systems they have in place more provide the illusion of safety than anything else. From all appearances, the MAPO can basically be overridden by anyone, with no approvals, no back-up in place, and no real oversight whatsoever.

That seems ... odd ...

I'm not sure about that. I think they need permission from control to engage the over-ride and they have to hold a button the the whole time from what I've read.

[BrerGnat]

If this kind of thing can occur, I have to say that it really seems like all the safety systems they have in place more provide the illusion of safety than anything else. From all appearances, the MAPO can basically be overridden by anyone, with no approvals, no back-up in place, and no real oversight whatsoever.

That seems ... odd ...

That's what I'm saying! I mean, if it's THAT easy to "override" the COLLISION AVOIDANCE SYSTEM, and it only requires someone, SOMEWHERE saying "yeah, go ahead", then that seems like a MAJOR lame policy for Disney to have, safety wise. At the very least, THAT needs to be changed!

I feel like something as critical as a MAPO override should have BOTH train operators in constant radio contact (and should require BOTH train operators to override their systems in synchronization in order for it to work), as WELL as someone in Central Command, as WELL as a pair of "eyes" who can PHYSICALLY see the trains, either from a tower somewhere, or on a monitor. Only when you have all parties aware of the situation and INVOLVED in what is happening at the same time can something like this be pulled off without something like this happening again...

[BMan62]

Stupid question about all this....

I understand the power requirements for one monorail train to make a circuit from the TTC to Epcot and back, but why could they not make each train take a full pass after their last drop? This would allow for any train still with passengers to pull up to the platform safely, without fear of another train backing up toward them. Also, this would allow the driver of the train to have full forward control of the train at all times.

This was indeed a tragedy, but one that could have easily been avoided.

One other note: I understand that this happened after park closing - it was the last run from Epcot. This would not seem to be a problem that could, or would, occur during regular park hours, so I would have no qualms about riding the monorail at any time during normal park hours.

[seanyred]

I haven't read every single entry in this thread so I'm not sure if this has been said...Anyway with regards to backing up, wouldn't another solution be adding camera's, with well lit back up lights so the Pilot upfront can see whats behind them. Just a thought...but if the current procedures for backing up were so poor there would have been more accidents like this right? Since this is the first accident like this in 38 years it sounds like human error...
My thoughts and prayers go out to everyone involved.

[dudeman1975]

I am not sure why you would back the monorail up from the front cab in reverse and not use the cab facing forward, so you can physically see if you are in fact switching tracks, does anyone know why this is.

[JANNINO]

I would think that until the NTSB releases their report, there should be a pilot or at least a pilot trainee in the rear car when a monorail is backing up. I saw in another post the idea of installing cameras on both ends of a monorail, similar to what you now have in higher end cars, to ensure there isnt' another monorail behind you. Having a person in the rear car (at least in the short term) would help settle down guest fears or concerns about traveling on the monorail and especially in the front and rear cars as no doubt you will have people who will refuse to travel in the front or rear cars.

[SamG]

IIRC, TTC is long enough for one train to sit inside. ASSUMING Purple was pulling in (or sitting there) while Pink was backing up, Pink's driver COULDN'T go to the rear cab... the front cab is "out" of TTC, giving no where to walk safely to get to the rear cab. There also wouldn't be a way for someone else to access the rear cab.

[doombuggy]

I heard about this on Sunday morning while getting ready for my 9:30am shift. My thoughts and prayers are with Austin's family at this difficult time.

[sgdisney]

Here's a new article from the Sentinel about the driver. It sounds like he was a very special cast member.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/orl-bk-disney-monorail-austin-wuennenberg-070709,0,2265988.story

[Goof42]

For those that are concerned about the safety of riding the monorail, riding in the front of the monorail, etc after this incident, just curious if you refuse to ride in the front couple of cars on BTMR or refuse to go on for that matter any of the rides that have had any accidents or fatalities outside of rider stupidity [e.g. standing up, etc]

for that matter do you ride in your car still?

I think the years of safe operation of the monorail speaks for itself. obviously this was a tragedy. I hope that we don't find out that someone cut corners somewhere to save a buck [as that would call into question safety through the park] but it's still a very safe form of transportation and is now even safer due to the press and outside scrutiny so I for one will have no problem not only riding on it but riding "co-pilot" if they still allow it.

Something else I haven't heard anyone address but I also feel sorry for the other CMs that were directly involved...whether or not any blame can be assigned they have to be devastated.

[BigRedDad]

QUESTION:
I have been reading articles, trying to see what happened, and make some formulation of this entire mess/tragedy. The photos I have seen show the collision occurring outside of the TTC (in mid-air). Since there is no timeline for the pictures, I am not sure if that is accurate or not. The video shows that when the monorails are in the TTC loading/unloading area.

Is there any clear data on where the actual collision occurred?

[Skippy]

haven't read every single entry in this thread so I'm not sure if this has been said...Anyway with regards to backing up, wouldn't another solution be adding camera's, with well lit back up lights so the Pilot upfront can see whats behind them. Just a thought.....

Was thinking the same thing. Disneyland did this to their monorail when DCA was being constructed and it was running in a shortened mode.

[Red Randal]

MODERATOR'S NOTE: This post referred to the previous post which was edited due to off-topic content.

[Dsnygirl]

:( Wow, if that isn't a sad video, I don't know what is. He seemed to be a very nice kid & a good CM -- what a tragic memory now for this family that interacted with him. Thanks to the OP of this article/video for linking us to it.

[Ed]

QUESTION:
I have been reading articles, trying to see what happened, and make some formulation of this entire mess/tragedy. The photos I have seen show the collision occurring outside of the TTC (in mid-air). Since there is no timeline for the pictures, I am not sure if that is accurate or not. The video shows that when the monorails are in the TTC loading/unloading area.

Is there any clear data on where the actual collision occurred?

The latest reports say the actual collision occurred just outside the concourse, where there are no walkways next to the trains (as you said, "in mid-air"); it was necessary to move the trains a short distance into the concourse in order to free the passengers and attempt to rescue the driver.

[DizneyRox]

Most cars now have backup cameras at least being an option. Not just high end cars. It's a safety feature that's pretty tough to say no to. They should 150% be installed on both ends of the monorails, and I think we'll see that happening fairly soon.

If I understand the MAPO system, another point of failure is that monorail purple would have in effect been paralysed once monorail pink came within one zone. Controls are locked out and brakes applied to stop the monorail from any further movement. So, while pink may have been under override, purple may have not been, making him a sitting duck (unless he was quick enough to override and slam it in reverse).

I'm still confused as to how they go so close together in the first place. Purple appears to be mostly in the TTC. That would mean that pink was probably way gone (not just past the switch).

So, instead of making the loop around Epcot, they decided to back it up? He probably needs to at least get into the station in order to clear the switch, so he was probably going at a fairly high rate of speed as well. And being in override mode probably didn't even register there might be another train around. I wouldn't be surprised if purple was fully (or nearly fully) in the station and the impact pushed him back to where he was.

Interesting, I really hope there's some sort of report released on this one. Unfortunately, I'm thinking there wasn't much for purple to do but sit and watch.

Of course this is all speculation...

*EDIT* Mentioned above is the collision happened just outside the concourse, but (and I'm no expert), purple appears to be maybe 75% through the concourse. I will guess that pink must have had to push back purple and not purple push forward pink, since a driver was already in pink and there's not a chance of getting a driver into the back of purple (at least not without more rescue people and whatnot) which means the video would not have been made like it was.

I'm assuming that the driver who was killed was in purple though. Pink was sticking out the front of the TTC and I'm assuming the other driver was in the front of pink, not the rear.

[Ed]

The latest information in the Orlando Sentinel (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/orl-bk-disney-monorail-cause-070709,0,1816667.story) (IF it is accurate!) makes it pretty clear how this accident may have happened, and includes a schematic of the track layout showing the pertinent locations.

[BrerGnat]

Thanks for the link to that article. Seeing the diagram was very helpful in trying to make sense of how this may have happened. A track switch failing to occur sounds like a MAJOR communication breakdown, since WDW has determined that all their equipment is in proper working order.

Time for WDW to seriously re-evaluate their protocol for track switches, backing up trains, and the use of MAPO override.

I think they have been lucky to have not had any accidents up until this point, if this is the way they have been operating for 38 years...

[DizneyRox]

Hmm... I guess I never noticed the need for two switches (or the two beams). Seems they could accomplish the same thing with one switch, but maybe they are just a bit too far.

If that is accurate, a backup camera of some sort should be mandatory, they would be able to verify the switch took place and they are going on the right beam.

[Ed]

I'm assuming that the driver who was killed was in purple though. Pink was sticking out the front of the TTC and I'm assuming the other driver was in the front of pink, not the rear.

Your assumption is correct; he was the driver of Monorail Purple. The driver of Pink was at the opposite end of the pink train.

[Lizzy]

I saw this terrible story on the news Sunday morning.

My heart goes out to the family of Austin, the other driver, the family that was on board and all the other guests who witnessed this event. I can't imagine the grief that the other driver must be feeling, and hope that he is surrounded with people who are comforting him.

It's the cast members like Austin who bring me back to Disney time and time again. I will ride the monorails again, and if it is ever allowed again I will sit in the front. That was an amazing experience the one time that I had the priveledge.

[GrumpyFan]

The Orlando Sentinel has posted a video shot by a family last week of their ride in the cab with Austin. It's quite touching and really shows what a great castmember he was.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/orl-bk-disney-monorail-austin-wuennenberg-070709,0,2265988.story

[NotaGeek]

The Orlando Sentinel has posted a video shot by a family last week of their ride in the cab with Austin. It's quite touching and really shows what a great castmember he was.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/orl-bk-disney-monorail-austin-wuennenberg-070709,0,2265988.story

This whole story is just horrible ... that video brought tears to my eyes ... so sad for his family and for all of his extended Disney family for the loss of a Cast Member.

[VolMickey]

The Orlando Sentinel has posted a video shot by a family last week of their ride in the cab with Austin. It's quite touching and really shows what a great castmember he was.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/orl-bk-disney-monorail-austin-wuennenberg-070709,0,2265988.story


This really is a touching video. Thanks for posting it.

[Melanie]

The Orlando Sentinel has posted a video shot by a family last week of their ride in the cab with Austin. It's quite touching and really shows what a great castmember he was.

Wow. Actually that was kinda hard for me to watch. :(

[barnaby]

The Orlando Sentinel has posted a video shot by a family last week of their ride in the cab with Austin. It's quite touching and really shows what a great castmember he was.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/orl-bk-disney-monorail-austin-wuennenberg-070709,0,2265988.story

I have to admit I teared up watching the video. It was touching to see and hear not only the excitement of the little guy, but the grandparents too. Times that by many in one single day and you can see that Austin put a smile on alot of people's faces.

[MNNHFLTX]

Wow, what an amazing young man! You could tell he loved relating to people as a part of his job.

A couple of extra thoughts. So if pink was backing up and purple potentially advancing, wouldn't Austin have seen pink coming towards him and, if so, wasn't there anything he could do about it? The thought that he was stuck in that front compartment, knowing he was going to be hit, is incredibly disturbing. And if they were hit just outside the station and had to move the trains forward to let off passengers and rescue him--well, as a nurse it just makes me wonder if that could have caused him additional injury. It really is just so sad. :(

[DonnaT103]

That video is a very fitting tribute to a young man who oviously loved his job. I try very hard not to think about the moments before his death. My thoughts a prayers go to his family and friends. And to the person driving Pink I pray they can find peace with what has happened weither it was thier fault or not, they must be going through hell right now.

[Celestria]

very bad indeed. but even with 500,000,000 safety measures in place there can always be a malfunction. even the healthiest of people can die with no warning (NOTE just a comparison). Pray for the cm family, but be glad it was only one person.

[DCDisney]

After the shock has worn off a bit, I'm wondering if they will put a stop to having any guests ride up front with the operator.

[WDWdriver]

After the shock has worn off a bit, I'm wondering if they will put a stop to having any guests ride up front with the operator.

Guests are not currently permitted to ride in the pilot's compartment.

[ResQRanger82]

As a current Monorail Pilot, I wanted to send a big thank you for all of the well wishes and prayers. I'm didn't have the privilege to work very much with our fallen CM, but know that he was a very special man. Honestly, I can’t even think about this tragedy for more than a minute without wanting to break down. I won't take time and speculate on the how’s and why’s. I can just say that I will proudly drive out beloved trains and provide the best for our Guests - with sorrow from our loss but with extra purpose knowing that I am continuing the legacy.

Thank you again for your support not only to his family but for the whole Monorail family. I look forward to seeing everyone aboard our "Highway in the Sky"

[DonaldDuck1117]

Screamscape is saying that guests are not permitted in with the pilot but this could only be a temporary thing. Basically they don't want guests bombarding the pilots with questions about what had happened. Hopefully after a while they will let folks back in there.

After watching the video of the ride up front I can see where he might have been helpless to move the monorail when he saw Pink coming, there's a shot where they are in the station and he basically throws it into drive and it doesn't move and he actually says, "we can't go anywhere."

[2Epcot]

That's a nice video of Austin. It is sad to watch, but I agree that it showed how much he liked his job.

[Skippy]

After watching the video of the ride up front I can see where he might have been helpless to move the monorail when he saw Pink coming, there's a shot where they are in the station and he basically throws it into drive and it doesn't move and he actually says, "we can't go anywhere."

When they're in the station, they're put into a "park" mode. There's a key fob that's waived (like a mobil speedpass) before the monorail will respond to commands. I have a picture of my son in the pilot's seat of Orange with his hands on the controls. Our pilot too insisted it was OK, there was nothing the little guy could do that would make the train move.

As for the incident, if pink was backing and doing a MAPO override (so he's ignoring the alert), and purple was progressing -- wouldn't pink have triggered purple's MAPO causing purple to lock the air-brakes (prohibiting purple from backing up out of the way)?

[iheartdisney]

Thanks to those of you who posted the video of Austin on the job. It serves as a wonderful tribute to someone who obviously loved his job. May he and his family find peace.

[Lizzy]

Just my theory or speculation or whatever but...


It seemed that Purple was sitting stopped outside the TTC, to me maybe the system was working on Purple and had it stopped because Pink triggered Purple's sensors. Pink was backing up and backed into Purple outside. The trains were moved inside to let people off.

How did they move both trains? Did Pink pull Purple inside because they were that stuck at that point?

I also watched the video that was taken after the crash, Maybe telling the guest no camera's seemed weird to you, but he said that after peering into the cab of the monorail. The guys that were trying to help asked if anyone was in there and the cast member said that the pilot was. They all looked inside and backed off.

[Dsnygirl]

As a current Monorail Pilot, I wanted to send a big thank you for all of the well wishes and prayers. I'm didn't have the privilege to work very much with our fallen CM, but know that he was a very special man. Honestly, I can’t even think about this tragedy for more than a minute without wanting to break down. I won't take time and speculate on the how’s and why’s. I can just say that I will proudly drive out beloved trains and provide the best for our Guests - with sorrow from our loss but with extra purpose knowing that I am continuing the legacy.

Thank you again for your support not only to his family but for the whole Monorail family. I look forward to seeing everyone aboard our "Highway in the Sky"
Thank you for posting -- it's been really great to hear from you and other monorail CM's who are continuing to do their job with pride and not get into the "who did what wrong" game.

I am sorry for your loss and I hope each and every one of you know how much we appreciate what you do every day!! :thumbsup:

[mousetrapper]

I was re-reading the posts here and realized how interesting it is that we can see something and think we understand the circumstances.

Looking at the video and photos it seems logical that the purple train rear-ended the pink one. Then I remembered that I was in an auto accident a few years ago where a truck in front of me stopped then backed up into the front of my car. This was in a school parking lot, and our new church was being built adjacent to the school. I was driving up to the school to drop my kids off in the morning and the truck was in front of me about to turn toward the church construction site.

The driver overshot the turn, stopped and was backing up to re-position the truck to make the turn.

I was a sitting duck. I blew the horn but he didn't hear it. He didn't stop until he felt resistance, and by then, my car was totaled.

No one was hurt, thank God.

But what's so interesting about that experience was that everyone - including the police who responded - who came up to the accident scene after the fact assumed I had rear-ended the truck. I had to explain over and over that the truck backed into the front of my car, I didn't drive forward into the back of the truck. A few snickers from men about inept women drivers didn't help my mood! :mad: I even had a few panicky moments when I wasn't sure if the truck driver was going to tell the truth about what happened.

Anyway, long story, but I think it's interesting that we tend to make assumptions instead of considering all possibilities.

[BrerEmma]

Has there been any talk about rebuilding the two trains involved in the accident and when they might be put back into service.

[GrumpyFan]

Then I remembered that I was in an auto accident a few years ago where a truck in front of me stopped then backed up into the front of my car.

But what's so interesting about that experience was that everyone - including the police who responded - who came up to the accident scene after the fact assumed I had rear-ended the truck.
Anyway, long story, but I think it's interesting that we tend to make assumptions instead of considering all possibilities.

Almost the same thing happened to me several years ago, and I had similar issues getting past people's assumptions. There's been a lot of assumptions made here and elsewhere, but until all the investigations are completed, and the findings released, none of us can know for certain how/why it all happened.


Has there been any talk about rebuilding the two trains involved in the accident and when they might be put back into service.

None. I would venture to guess the trains are being methodically torn apart right now and thoroughly inspected. Once the investigators are satisfied with everything, they can and probably will re-build them, but, I wouldn't expect to see either train for several months. NTSB is involved now, and they're very detailed in their investigations, but it's also a very slow process.

[DizneyRox]

I suspect that pink and purple will no longer exist, will they be repainted a new color or one of the existing colors in an attempt to hide it's past from guests is my guess.

They need all 12 though in their stable. If attendence picks back up, they won't be able to move guests quickly enough with only 10 available (considering at least one will be in for maintenance at any point in time).

[lockedoutlogic]

It will be interested in how Disney deals with the two trains involved....

investigation aside, they can still run their lines without interuption with the two trains out.....it would mean 9 outta 10 trains in use per day instead of the usual 9 outta 12....

but i think they will be very worried about increased wear....and remember that they are expensive as all get out.

my guess is they try the usual strongarm junk they pull on the local government to entice the NTSB to give them the trains back to them as fast as they can....i don't think it will work without a call from the whitehouse or capitol hill

as far as why it happened....i don't really have a good bet

the first explanation that popped into my head was that on the 4th....the workforce is extremely overtaxed and many are forcing themselves to work extra to make a decent buck (near impossible to do).....

I don't necessarily think it was operator error....but that is one of the days of the year were employee fatigue and aggrivation is at it's peak level.

and florida tends to be hot:thedolls:


i am very interested to see if WDW allows a complete, open investigation.....or if the ants are scrambling around already doing "perception" control

[lockedoutlogic]

I suspect that pink and purple will no longer exist, will they be repainted a new color or one of the existing colors in an attempt to hide it's past from guests is my guess.

They need all 12 though in their stable. If attendence picks back up, they won't be able to move guests quickly enough with only 10 available (considering at least will be in for maintenance).


you're dead on about the colors.....we shant see them again

as far as the need for the trains....i don't believe they ever run more than 3 on a track....

the issue for them will be lack of maintenance time and increased wear....and the fact that they will be short if 2 fail....which apparently is not uncommon

[GrumpyFan]

I suspect that pink and purple will no longer exist, will they be repainted a new color or one of the existing colors in an attempt to hide it's past from guests is my guess.


I was wondering about this too. Guests can be funny about these kinds of things. If they perceive they're riding on a train that somebody was killed on, they might choose not too. I would suspect at the least, Purple will be re-painted before being returned to service. But then, they could re-paint Pink as well, just to keep everyone guessing as to which one was the "fatal" one.

Personally, it doesn't really matter to me. I'm not superstitious, so they could leave them the same colors, but they probably won't.

[iheartdisney]

Thank you for posting -- it's been really great to hear from you and other monorail CM's who are continuing to do their job with pride and not get into the "who did what wrong" game.

I am sorry for your loss and I hope each and every one of you know how much we appreciate what you do every day!! :thumbsup:

I, too, am so glad to hear from other monorail CM's. You are suffering, too, and I hope you feel the support and concern from all of us here on Intercot.