Rumor - Space Mt Rehab....on the cheap?

[JabberJaws]

This is similar to the post below, but I didn't want to hijack that thread.

Screamscape is now reporting that, not only has the line about onboard audio been removed from the website, they are now hearing that Disney has not only scrapped the onboard audio out of the budget, but has also trimmed down the remainder of the changes/upgrades to bare minimum, in order to keep costs down and to get it back up and running before the busy Thanksgiving/Christmas holiday season.

If all they are going to do is replace the track, then honestly what is the point? I can say that I am not happy about this. I understand that times are tight, even for WDW, but come on enough with the budget cutting.

Just think of the amazing things that WDI could produce if they weren't hampered by penny pinchers! Oh wait...you don't have to think about that, you can just go to Tokyo Disney Sea and see what they can come up with with a much larger pocketbook.

Oh well, hopefully this rumor will prove to be untrue, but I am not keeping my hopes up.

[RBrooksC]

My guess is they are upgrading their computer control. I spoke to somebody down there years ago when SM was offline do to computer issues.

Since I work in the computer field I asked why they just didn't reboot Windows. The girl I was talking to laughed and said they were using the original, albeit upgraded, mainframe to run the ride.

I was taken aback and asked why in the hell they were using a old 70s mainframe when today's computers could most likely do a better job at running the ride.

She said that it would have to take the ride down for about a year to remove and replace all the track to upgrade the computer system.

Computer systems are not cheap and there is a possibility that there are budget overruns in that regard so before one says they are "doing this on the cheap", one needs to consider what exactly the costs are and what the main goal may be.

[JPL]

We are in fact getting the light version of the original refurb plans according to sources. Originally they were going add audio and then found out it would require replacing the existing track completely and now have changed the plans to only include some track replacement and lighting effect upgrades.

[RBrooksC]

Enjoy the ride for what it is. To be honest, if you didn't have it initially, then you won't miss it.

I love how people start to complain when budgets get in the way. Let's just put all our money into this one ride.

Anybody who has worked in the real world know there is "what we want" and "what we can afford." Which goes hand-in-hand with budgeted amounts and real costs. When the real costs go beyond what can be afforded things need to be cut.

That does not mean things are being done "on the cheap." It just means that the company is is being responsible to their shareholders.

[Dsnygirl]

To be honest with you, I'll take whatever upgrades they can give me. We were there in both December and January, and both times, SM spent an inordinate amount of time "down", sometimes going down twice in the same day. We were moved out of line about half the times we waited, and the other times we ended up standing up by the loading area while the lights went on and they worked on the ride for 15-20 minutes. :(

Not that I would want to ride if they felt it was unsafe in any way, and I'm glad they took the time to work on it, but for a ride to go down that many times in the 12 days we were there, it definitely needed to be closed and upgraded, even on a "light" scale. If that is all they can do for now, I'll take it! ;)

[ayeckley]

I'm confused - why is there any relationship between the physical track (steel) and the control and audio systems? I don't see any technical reason why they'd have to replace track in order to upgrade to a modern PLC system. Sure, they'd have to install new I/O devices, but that's not the same as track.

The only connection I can see is financial. If they had to replace more track than originally budgeted due to wear or fatigue issues discovered during inspection, then that would certainly eat into the budgets for the control system/audio upgrades. Is there more to it than that?

[Zone Stop]

As for the relationship between Track and Onboard Sound... how do you think show audio gets triggered?

[drummerboy]

I remember several years ago when DW and I did the behind the scenes tour in MK, we were surprised at how many attractions still were run off the mainframe computer.

[scoot241]

As for the relationship between Track and Onboard Sound... how do you think show audio gets triggered?

Onboard speakers also add weight to the cars.

[JabberJaws]

Enjoy the ride for what it is. To be honest, if you didn't have it initially, then you won't miss it.

I love how people start to complain when budgets get in the way. Budgets be damned. Let's just put all our money into this one ride.

Anybody who has worked in the real world know there is "what we want" and "what we can afford." Which goes hand-in-hand with budgeted amounts and real costs. When the real costs go beyond what can be afforded things need to be cut.

That does not mean things are being done "on the cheap." It just means that the company is is being responsible to their shareholders.

Well I am a disney share holder and a business professional with a master degree in business so I am aware of "real costs" and "budgeted amounts" and I know the reason behind what disney is doing.

I am fully aware of Disney's current financial situation. I am aware of the logistics of the improvements as well.

Last I checked though, this was a web community for Disney enthusiasts :mickey: so you can take my above post as that of a Disney enthusiast who has ridden both DLs and WDWs space mountain and sees the latent potential there if they did the originally planned improvements.

Perhaps I should add the following disclaimer so my business knowledge and "real-world" experience is not taken into question:

**Disclaimer: What I am about to post is posted as a mickey-ear wearing Disney enthusiast and park goer, and may contain wishes, hopes, dreams and other lighthearted whimsical desires. The aforementioned items are opinion only and the poster is not responsible for the "real-world"-ness of said opinions contained herein**

Now, having said that.

Disney could use a nice injection of life into several attractions, and don't get me wrong, SM is one of, if not my favorite attraction at WDW, but it could use a bit of an upgrade. And I think if Disney trimmed costs and cuts it all out save a few new darklights and some new paint, I think they are missing an opportunity here.

I went on the DL version of SM for the first time just two years ago and was blown away. I don't think that any of the changes took away from the original spirit of the ride at all.

And again, don't get me wrong. I am a huge fan of WDWs SM. I love the jerkiness, the bobsled style cars, the overall feeling of unsafe (same reason why I like wooden coasters), but it needs some changes. Particularly in the lift hill area, the post show area and the loading area.

There have been discrepencies between the DL and WDW parks before when rides are transferred. For example, Splash Mt. at DL seemed like a "watered down" (no pun intended) version of the one at MK. Not sure if that was for budget reasons or not, but I was a bit disappointed.

My point is not that I don't understand why Disney is cutting the budget, but point is that I feel like they are missing an opportunity and am saddened by that because I was originally so excited when I heard it was going down for the major overhaul.

I will still ride SM and love every second of it, however.

[GothMickey]

Yes, you are getting the bare bones minimum refurb for Space Mountain. JPL is right when he says there were plans but it was cut. The onboard audio systems weigh the cars down, so not only the track, but the supports have to be stabilized to handle the extra weight. Think about this. The ride has been open for what 35 years? The support beams have never been replaced. You are talking about 35 year old supports having to continue to take abuse from running an attraction say 12 hours a day, more sometimes, having X amount of pounds forced on it daily. Takes it toll on the supports. But, they aren't being replaced. I also have heard, however, that work will be done to reinforce the support beams, not replace them, possibly for allowing onboard audio in the future.

Think of this refurb on the same level as SSE. The descent in SSE is still not complete, and has now been put off for a while as other projects will soon get on their way. Space Mountain will the the same way. A lot of the effects were already installed while the ride was open. The bulk of the work will be done now. And more will be done during 3rd shift. But it will be cosmetic. I still hold out hope for audio in the future.

[GothMickey]

I'm confused - why is there any relationship between the physical track (steel) and the control and audio systems? I don't see any technical reason why they'd have to replace track in order to upgrade to a modern PLC system. Sure, they'd have to install new I/O devices, but that's not the same as track.

The only connection I can see is financial. If they had to replace more track than originally budgeted due to wear or fatigue issues discovered during inspection, then that would certainly eat into the budgets for the control system/audio upgrades. Is there more to it than that?

The track has to be smooth, unlike the current track. If the track is rough and bumpy like now, the onboard audio will he kicking out left and right, causing one heck of a nightmare for the CMs and technicians.

[GothMickey]

To be honest with you, I'll take whatever upgrades they can give me.

Well, you have no choice but to take it, whether you like it or not. And truth be told, Space Mountain was is such desparate need of a refurb, that, even a bare bones refurb will be an improvement.

[GothMickey]

Enjoy the ride for what it is. To be honest, if you didn't have it initially, then you won't miss it.

I love how people start to complain when budgets get in the way. Budgets be damned. Let's just put all our money into this one ride.

Anybody who has worked in the real world know there is "what we want" and "what we can afford." Which goes hand-in-hand with budgeted amounts and real costs. When the real costs go beyond what can be afforded things need to be cut.

That does not mean things are being done "on the cheap." It just means that the company is is being responsible to their shareholders.

The comoany should also be responsible to their guests and give them NEW and EXCITING rides. The truth is, Space Mountain is being done on the cheap. This has nothing to do with the management team in Orlando being smart with the money. The ride was budgeted to have one heck of a refurb, down for over a year, and when reopen, it would be better than Space Mountain in DL, which is the standard bearer now. However, Phil Holmes, whether people want to hear it or not, does not want the ride to be down for the holidays, no matter what the guests could have gotten in NEW and EXCITING entertainment.

[JabberJaws]

However, Phil Holmes, whether people want to hear it or not, does not want the ride to be down for the holidays, no matter what the guests could have gotten in NEW and EXCITING entertainment.

This is pretty much inline with what I had heard as well. I had heard that it wasn't just budgetary reasons for trimming down the update, it was the fact that it would have to be closed during the holidays. I heard this a long time ago when news first broke about SM getting a long rehab, that there was discussion about trimming down the severity of the rehab in order to get it open in time for Thanksgiving/Christmas.

As I said before, this isn't the first time that rehabs, upgrades or even new attractions have been rushed to operation at the cost the overall quality of the ride, or opening them before enough tests have been done or the effects/elements have been finalized.

I think this philosophy of open first, fix later has hurt even whole parks, including DHS, the Hong Kong park and even non-Disney parks (the park formerly known as Hard Rock Park comes to mind..though that wasn't its only issue).

I would love for WDW to have taken the proactive approach, bitten the bullet (come on, Disney has the money), and just done it all at once, but oh well...que sera sera.

[GothMickey]

We have to remember, Disney is like any other company, internal politics helps make decisions. Haunted Mansion also had the budget cut for the refurb. However, the person in control of the refurb, name escapes me, not Phil Holmes, won out. WDI was able to do amazing things with the budget they received because they were allowed to have the ride down for a long period of time. Then, we get refurbs like Pirates: bare bones, rushed, or like SSE, not even complete 2 years later.

There is a new manager in charge if the Adventureland/LS area. And from what I have heard, this manager has fought for, and pretty much was given the green light, for a nice refurb of Jungle Cruise. This manager is from DL, and is bringing the way they do things over there to WDW. This is the jolt and kick WDW management needs.

Please don't get me wrong here. I think the Space Mountain refurb, despite being cut and on the cheap, will be just fine. Especially if they continue to plus it during the few months after it reopens.

[JabberJaws]

Please don't get me wrong here. I think the Space Mountain refurb, despite being cut and on the cheap, will be just fine. Especially if they continue to plus it during the few months after it reopens.

I agree that a dusting off, fresh coat of paint, new track, etc. will do wonders by itself. One of the first things I noticed about DL's SM (aside from the really cool warp tunnel effect going up the lift hill) was 1.) how pitch black completely dark it was the second you exited the lift hill, and 2.) how smooth the track was. You almost felt as if you were floating.

Hopefully that will replace the track, but unfortunately the track isn't the only culprit when it comes to a smooth ride.

Does anyone know if they are going to be getting new coaster cars as well, or was the cut out of the budget too.

[Ian]

There's two possibilities here ...

A. the refurb has been cut both for budgetary and availability reasons and, once re-opened with whatever minimal safety/ride updates there are, will remain unchanged for the forseeable future.

or

B. the approach will be more like what was/is done with SE. They'll do what they can in the period of downtime that Ops is willing to tolerate, re-open the ride, and then piecemeal it after that until it's ultimately completed.

I mean I'm all in favor of revamping Space Mountain, but I can't say I don't understand why Ops would be hesitant to have one of their signature rides down over the busiest time of the year.

I mean there's fantasy and then there's reality and the reality is that you're going to anger a lot more paying guests if Space Mountain is shut down during Christmas than you are if you cut back on a refurb that 99% of them knew nothing about anyway.

Very few WDW theme park guests are fanboys/fangirls like us.

[JRocker]

I mean there's fantasy and then there's reality and the reality is that you're going to anger a lot more paying guests if Space Mountain is shut down during Christmas than you are if you cut back on a refurb that 99% of them knew nothing about anyway.

zactly

And there are even a few of us fanboys out here that aren't too concerned about it.

[cgriff]

Just a rumor. Who knows.

[GothMickey]

b. the approach will be more like what was/is done with SE. They'll do what they can in the period of downtime that Ops is willing to tolerate, re-open the ride, and then piecemeal it after that until it's ultimately completed.


I am more inclined to go with this option. I have a feeling the major stuff will be done by November, and the ride will open and be fine.

My original concern was with the support beams. When I heard they aren't being replaced, I started thinking the worst can happen. But, I also just heard that reinforcements are being added, so, if true, the supports should be just fine. And I am sure Disney will have the supports examined to make sure there is no structual damage or weakening.

Also, from what I heard, a lot of the equipment for the new effects has been installed already, just waiting to be turned on.

I am a little disappointed Disney didn't go all out, but, I still think the ride will be greatly improved without an all-out refurb.

[GothMickey]

I mean there's fantasy and then there's reality and the reality is that you're going to anger a lot more paying guests if Space Mountain is shut down during Christmas than you are if you cut back on a refurb that 99% of them knew nothing about anyway.

If you look at the back of your ticket, Disney does not guarantee all rides will be operational during your vacation. I find the whole argument that rides cannot be shut down for lengthy refurbs during busy times to be very silly. That was never a concern n the past. However, current "management" rather do half hearted and bare bone refurbs than close rides. I do think this is a mistake. Do it all and do it right the first time. That is just my opinion. Who cares is The Jonas Brothers could not get on Space Mountain. Just more of a reason to make a another trip. :)

[GothMickey]

Just a rumor. Who knows.

What is a rumor, that there won't be onboard audio? No it is not a rumor. It has been verified that there will be no onboard audio. At least not when it opens in November.

[GrumpyFan]

If you look at the back of your ticket, Disney does not guarantee all rides will be operational during your vacation.

That doesn't stop the Mom and Dad who "spent thousands of dollars on their once in a lifetime vacation" from going to city hall and complaining that SM was not open. It happens all the time. So, in some way, I can understand management wanting to avoid this. It just makes their job easier.


What is a rumor, that there won't be onboard audio? No it is not a rumor. It has been verified that there will be no onboard audio. At least not when it opens in November.

Actually, I don't know that it was ever confirmed that there would be on-board audio, THAT was a rumor. To say that it's been "verified" is a stretch isn't it? I mean, Disney themselves have neither confirmed nor denied this rumor as far as I know. I'm not saying I think there will be, just arguing a point that until Disney officially says something as truth, it isn't really.

[JabberJaws]

If you look at the back of your ticket, Disney does not guarantee all rides will be operational during your vacation. I find the whole argument that rides cannot be shut down for lengthy refurbs during busy times to be very silly. That was never a concern n the past. However, current "management" rather do half hearted and bare bone refurbs than close rides. I do think this is a mistake. Do it all and do it right the first time. That is just my opinion. Who cares is The Jonas Brothers could not get on Space Mountain. Just more of a reason to make a another trip. :)

I understand both sides of the argument on this one. Having worked in the parks in the past, I got a taste of guest complaints and they aren't fun.

Of course, DL closed SM down for a LONG time to do their big upgrade, but then again they marketed it bigtime and pushed it as part of the 50th anny celebration. WDW, however, has not even made public anything more than a few small details about the changes at their SM.

I have a sneaking feeling that it is more about budget and less about operational concerns, though I am sure that is part of it.

Recent WDW management has been somewhat infamous in the past for wanting to cut corners where they can. Not that I blame them all things considered right now. Given that Disney just released their quarterlies showing a sharp decrease in revenue, it seems logical for them to trim this down until things even hope.

And that is what I hope they are doing. Just erring on the side of fiscal caution until the economy rebounds, at which time they will complete the upgrades.

Time will tell though.

[GothMickey]

That doesn't stop the Mom and Dad who "spent thousands of dollars on their once in a lifetime vacation" from going to city hall and complaining that SM was not open. It happens all the time. So, in some way, I can understand management wanting to avoid this. It just makes their job easier.



Actually, I don't know that it was ever confirmed that there would be on-board audio, THAT was a rumor. To say that it's been "verified" is a stretch isn't it? I mean, Disney themselves have neither confirmed nor denied this rumor as far as I know. I'm not saying I think there will be, just arguing a point that until Disney officially says something as truth, it isn't really.

I know what you are saying, and I do understand the thought process. But, at the same time, I feel cutting corners just to keep an attraction from being closed 12 months for an all inclusive refurb just cause people will complain their vacations are ruined is silly. As for onboard audio, Space Mountain is not getting it, at least nit when it is open in November. Not saying it isn't one of the effect that may gradually be included. Just don't expect it in November.

[GothMickey]

I have a sneaking feeling that it is more about budget and less about operational concerns, though I am sure that is part of it.

Recent WDW management has been somewhat infamous in the past for wanting to cut corners where they can. Not that I blame them all things considered right now. Given that Disney just released their quarterlies showing a sharp decrease in revenue, it seems logical for them to trim this down until things even hope.

And that is what I hope they are doing. Just erring on the side of fiscal caution until the economy rebounds, at which time they will complete the upgrades.

Time will tell though.

All I can do is report what I had heard, but, it doesn't mean I received good information. What I was told was the budget was approved, then things started getting cut before the economic downturn. And truth be told, Space Mountain was a good ride prior to the refurb. Even though it is going to be bare bones, it will be greatly improved. And again, expect a SSE situation where work will continue, during 3rd shift. As long as it is operational and passable, the ride will open in November.

WDW management, lately, runs on PASSABLE and not ABOVE AND BEYOND anymore.

[GothMickey]

STOP THE PRESSES! Scremscape has a blurb about the onboard audio being cut.

Now, this is not from Screamscape, just me thinking here. What if Space Mountain gets off-board audio instead? What I mean is, audio tied to effects in the ride, where the speakers do NOT have to be included in the trains. The speaks can be attached to the track, not adding much extra weight, especially since the supports are being reinforced anyway. That's an idea.

Edited to add: New permits filed by Disney suggests some sort of interactive element may be getting added. I am assuming maybe to the queue? So, like we all pretty much agreed to, even though the stuff being done to the ride is bare bones, enough new stuff is being added now to make the ride fun.

[ayeckley]

As for the relationship between Track and Onboard Sound... how do you think show audio gets triggered?

The traditional approach for rollercoaster waypoint monitoring is retro-reflective sensors that are triggered when the car passes. No modifications to track are required to add or remove them. Newer technology would be Hall effect sensors, but I doubt that they've been widely adopted by coaster owners. Again, no mods to the track required.

I stand by the validity of my original question; I think that track replacement is a red herring.

[ayeckley]

Onboard speakers also add weight to the cars.

I can buy that; the wall thickness of the track tubing might have to be increased vs. what the original design called for. Although if you believe the statistics, the increasing weight of the riders over the years is probably a bigger factor.;)

[ayeckley]

The track has to be smooth, unlike the current track. If the track is rough and bumpy like now, the onboard audio will he kicking out left and right, causing one heck of a nightmare for the CMs and technicians.

I could believe that, if there were a system of contacts that relayed power and audio to the cars from the track. But is that really how they do it on SM at DL, or RRC at DHS? I can barely believe they wouldn't use more modern technology. For example, the onboard video systems that I've seen on some coasters use onboard batteries with the signals transmitted wirelessly. That way it doesn't matter how rough the ride is; the radio waves don't care.

[Edit]
Now that I think about it more, I'm even less convinced that it has anything to do with the smootheness of the ride. The audio data on a rollercoaster is fixed; it doesn't need to be transmitted in real-time so that data would be contained in the onboard nonvolatile memory of the audio system. E'nuff of the technical stuff, I'll bet I've put a few folks to sleep with it already...

[scoot241]

I can buy that; the wall thickness of the track tubing might have to be increased vs. what the original design called for. Although if you believe the statistics, the increasing weight of the riders over the years is probably a bigger factor.;)

I thought about that after I wrote my last message. I think I remember reading, however, that the onboard audio's weight was one of the big reasons DL's SM was down for so long. The audio-enabled cars were put on the original track and messed it up.

[GrumpyFan]

I thought about that after I wrote my last message. I think I remember reading, however, that the onboard audio's weight was one of the big reasons DL's SM was down for so long. The audio-enabled cars were put on the original track and messed it up.

Actually, the new tracks were necessitated by the fact that they found cracks on the existing tracks and it had become unstable.

[SpecJoe Magic]

There have been discrepencies between the DL and WDW parks before when rides are transferred. For example, Splash Mt. at DL seemed like a "watered down" (no pun intended) version of the one at MK. Not sure if that was for budget reasons or not, but I was a bit disappointed.

The following is way off subject, but since you mentioned it, I couldn't resist.

Disneyland's Splash Mountain opened in July 1989, almost exactly 3 years prior to the opening of WDW's Splash Mountain. Disneyland's Splash Mountain came about as a way to use a lot of audio-animatronics that were left over from the then recently closed America Sings attraction in Tomorrowland. When it came time to build WDW's Splash Mountain, they learned from the mistakes that they made at Disneyland's Splash Mountain.

For example, all of the the audio-animatronics used at WDW's Splash Mountain were built exclusively for that ride, and they were more up-to-date. They also didn't have to concern themselves with finding room for left over and outdated audio-animatronics from an extinct attraction, so the placement of them in WDW's version ended up being far better whereas Disneyland's Splash Mountain feels cluttered with too many audio-animatronics.

Another example is that the log design was changed from a narrow log that seats guests one behind the other at Disneyland to a wider log that seats 2 guests in each of the 4 rows at WDW. Not only did this new design increase vehicle capacity by 1 (from 7 to 8 guests per log), it also slowed the logs down, so that they glide through the ride at a more appropriate pace than the logs at Disneyland.

[JabberJaws]

The following is way off subject, but since you mentioned it, I couldn't resist.

Makes sense to me, so I stand corrected on that point!

I also felt that maybe ToT at DL was a bit trimmed back, but I think that was more to do w/ the drop sequences (plus I wasn't a big fan of the mirror effect and missed the 5th dimension room).

I have also heard that RnRc at DLP was a trimmed down version of the DHS one (using just bright lights inside the ride itself rather than the sound effects and cutouts like in DHS, though I guess the cutouts are a matter of opinion as far as whether you like them or not).

[DizneyFreak2002]

I have been a pessimist lately with the current management team in Orlando, but I am thinking this refurb may not be all that bad.. Just because we aren't getting everything that may have been originally planned doesn't mean the refurb will bomb... I will be WDW in October so I will miss out on the ride, but, it gives me something to look forward to for next year...

[2Epcot]

Whatever the real reason for the cutback on rehab, I find it very disappointing. To not want to shut down a ride during the holidays that needs major rehab doesn't seem like a good reason to me. At some point every attraction has to go down when people are visiting the park. The older an attraction is, the more rehab it needs. On my last visit to WDW I had already been on the upgraded Space Mountain at Disneyland and Hong Kong's version, and couldn't believe how terrible WDWs Space Mountain had become. I refused to ride it a second time with my friends because I felt like I was on a stage coach ride in space. I guess I won't be riding Space Mountain in Florida anymore until it gets a real rehab, but at least I have Disneyland.

[Ian]

Whatever the real reason for the cutback on rehab, I find it very disappointing. To not want to shut down a ride during the holidays that needs major rehab doesn't seem like a good reason to me. At some point every attraction has to go down when people are visiting the park.The thing is, no one really knows what is and is not being included in the rehab so it's hard to say one way or the other whether it's going to be good, bad, or indifferent. All we have is rumors.

Personally, based on everything I've kind of managed to pull together rumor-wise, I suspect that what's going to happen is they're going to take the ride totally offline for as short a duration as possible. Most likely, that time will be used to do the stuff that can't be done just off-hours ... replacing track, safety work, etc.

And then, after it re-opens, they'll sneak in after hours and just do the rest of the "plussing" on a sort of ad-hoc basis.

And I'm okay with that. I think it's a good approach, because it's sort of the best of both worlds.

[dnickels]

Orlando Sentinel article today about the upgrade

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/travel/attractions/orl-cfbtourism-disney-060809060809jun08,0,5876331.story

Nothing really new, but they talk about the construction notice calling for the installation of an "interactive queue".

[JabberJaws]

Interesting article, thanks for posting. I have a feeling that the "interactive queue," as they state in the article, will be similar to Soarin's, where they have video screens that display trivia questions, this time the theme would be space of course.

The new ceiling they talk about in the article will undoubtedly go a long way to increasing the darkness of the ride. Also, the new ceiling could allow for built in ligthing effects or speakers.

The new track will increase the smoothness of the ride, though the biggest component to the potential smoothness would be new trains. I am assuming they will get two seaters like SM at DL got. I like the old school bobsled stlye trains, but the only way to get a nice smooth ride is to replace the trains as well.

I hope that they also add what is my favorite effect from the DL SM (aside from onboard audio) and that is the lift-hill tunnel. The swirling bright colors in the lift hill tunnel at DL add the perfect amount of disorientation, which really adds to the complete darkness, floating feeling when you come off the lift hill.

Of course for nostalgic reasons I like the 1970's space man look (with the fedex logos not so obviously removed). But would LOVE the life hill to get the DL upgrade.

[GothMickey]

Jaws, don't wish too hard for new trains. From everything I heard, no new trains will be added. Just a touch up of the current trains. But, like Ian said, all we have are rumors. Disney has been tight lipped about this refurb. Even those with the proper contacts don't know for sure.

[BluewaterBrad]

I hope its a good refurb!!:mickey:

[GrumpyFan]

According to the article posted today in the Orlando Sentinel, the rehab is going to cost $12.3 million! I know that's small in comparison to a new ride, but it seems pretty big for such a short refurb. Maybe they're doing a lot more than what we're hearing or expecting.

[DizneyFreak2002]

According to the article posted today in the Orlando Sentinel, the rehab is going to cost $12.3 million! I know that's small in comparison to a new ride, but it seems pretty big for such a short refurb. Maybe they're doing a lot more than what we're hearing or expecting.

I don't think $12.3 million gets a lot now-a-days... I am still holding out for a decent refurb... And I suspect we will get one, even though it will be a lot less than what Space Mountain could have, and should have, gotten...