EE Yeti

[PetefromRI]

I heard a rumor today that the Yeti in EE was broken and because of the 2.1 million dollar cost to fix it they were thinking of just omiting it.Is this true or just bad info?

[SBETigg]

Wow, I hope it's bad info! I have no idea.

[dumbo ears]

I haven't heard any permanent rumors yet but I rode it last tuesday and it wasn't running and I couldn't even see it but my friends said he saw it so I guess its stilll there

[JPL]

The Yeti has been broken for quite some time now. His arm is not fully attached to his body any more and he is ripping himself from his foundations. The company who created him has gone out of business. So there are lots of problems surrounding the figure and any replacemnt or repair would be costly and require shutting down the attraction for an extended period of time. One rumour that has been floating around is replacing him with a High Definition Video Screen.

[SBETigg]

Jeff, can you explain more about the company who created him? What company was it? Was he not created by Disney Imagineers? I saw a travel channel special that had a segment on the yeti creation and made it look like it was all Disney. Now I'm curious. And sad! That's a major thrill missing from the ride, albeit a quick one that goes by in a blink.

[DizneyRox]

As with most things, Imagieeering has been largely outsourced. Yes, there is still an Imagineering Dept, but it's a shadow of former self. Many times they seem to just put on a bit of paint some landscaping, and put up a big red [DONE] stamp!

Surely Imagineering doesn't have the expertise to built a 200 foot tal mountain range in the middle of florida. Think of all the real engineering necessary to do that.

Again, not that they don't have some expertise, but I suspect it revolves more around project management.

And it's broken because they don't want to spend the money necessary to fix it. Instead we'll get a cheap fix (ala video projection) and some more smoke and mirrors (maybe a strobe light or two as well).

[CanadianWDWFan]

When I first read this I was really shocked that something as great as the Yeti on EE could be allowed to function as a broken down shadow of itself. Now I am just disappointed in Disney. I mean to have a great attraction then to change something on it to cheapen the experience.
I remember the first time I saw the Yeti, I was totally amazed by him and how he moved. Really would be sad if they replaced him to a videoscreen. It just wouldn't be the same.:(

[Wells]

2.1 Million!? .....You've got to be kidding me!
Even when the Yeti was working the range of motion was not so great that for the time he is visible, I can't believe that Disney isn't able to come up with a convincing lower cost solution for this problem. I have designed factory automation that manipulates 400 pound engine blocks with as much velocity as that robot swings his arm, and didn't cost nearly as much. Sounds like this animatronic was grossly over designed to begin with. It reminds me of the story about Walt Disney economizing the "Pirates of the Caribbean" animatronics by eliminating unnecessary detail where it was not required due to visibility. The Yeti is the central showpiece for this ride and should not be eliminated or replaced with a static figure. Has Disney completely lost their creative edge? This should and can be fixed!:twocents:

[#1donaldfan]

...nothing but rumours yet, so lets not get too worked up, at least, till we see the end result...however, my guess is that Disney will fix him back up, then we can call him the multiple million dollar man (yeti)...:cool:

[DizneyRox]

Has Disney completely lost their creative edge?
That happened long ago, nothing new here...

And yes, these are all rumors, but the Yeti has been broken for going on a year now I believe. If it were going to be fixed (or if it was an easy fix) I suspect it would have been done already. If it's a probelm that bigger than a breadbox, then I'm guessing that we'll see some sort of replacement. Disney doesn't want to have to maintain another attraction like they do with TT.

[HollyLagrange]

So, is the ride still working and just the yetti is broken? or is the whole thing shut down?

[DizneyRox]

So, is the ride still working and just the yetti is broken? or is the whole thing shut down?
During everyday use, the Yeti is in B mode which is a strobe light effect to make him appear to be moving. A mode is a fully moving yeti that reaches out for the train car as it moves by.

The rides operates in B mode now and has for a long time. I think Jim Hill reported recently that it was in A mode when some big wigs came through as some sort of charade. Other effects that were brokenfor a while were also repaired for this visit, I'm not sure if they stayed operational or not, but the Yeti was put back into B mode.

[WOJO5794]

I guess I won't miss it much because the 4 or 5 times I've ridden the ride I never saw the Yeti. When during the ride do you see it?

[Imagineer1981]

As with most things, Imagieeering has been largely outsourced. Yes, there is still an Imagineering Dept, but it's a shadow of former self. Many times they seem to just put on a bit of paint some landscaping, and put up a big red [DONE] stamp!

Surely Imagineering doesn't have the expertise to built a 200 foot tal mountain range in the middle of florida. Think of all the real engineering necessary to do that.

Again, not that they don't have some expertise, but I suspect it revolves more around project management.

And it's broken because they don't want to spend the money necessary to fix it. Instead we'll get a cheap fix (ala video projection) and some more smoke and mirrors (maybe a strobe light or two as well).

Actually Disney does has the expertise to build a 200 ft mountain. They employ not only artist, but also engineers, lighting desinger, etc. Imagineers are from all fields and they really do design and figure out the engineering of most projects. Sometimes its easier to subcontract out parts of attractions and cheaper then doing it all in house. Imagineers could do it, but the guys in charge of the money up top probably just look at the numbers and say, "hey this company has already made giant gorillas, why not have them make the Yeti for cheaper since they have the technology done". From a business aspect it makes sense.

[GrumpyFan]

I guess I won't miss it much because the 4 or 5 times I've ridden the ride I never saw the Yeti. When during the ride do you see it?

If lit up with the lighting, he's hard to miss! He's 25 foot tall, and tries to grab you right before you exit the mountain to return to the station.

It really stinks that he's broken. From everything I've read, it's believed that the foundation he is on is cracked or broken and movement of the Yeti makes it worse. The only fix, apparently, involves a lot of rework to the mountain and it's foundation, as it would have to be torn out and re-done, which means it would also be down for a while.

It's sad too though that this has happened. The attraction was a real achievement for Imagineering when it was completed, now it's just a sad story of an imagineering project gone wrong. Not that I blame imagineering or anything. I think this is just one of those unforseen engineering problems that was a result of forces that were not anticipated. Hopefully, someday it will be fixed.

The attraction has been running now for almost 3 years without any substantial downtime. They could conceivably schedule something in the next year or two to do maintenance. However, it has become a real draw for attendance at AK that taking it down would seriously hurt attendance. So, for now, as long as it can still operate in "B mode", without any danger to guests, it will probably stay that way. I would be real interested to hear some of the back story conversations that have taken place since the issue was discovered.

The best thing we can do for now is stop by guest services and lodge a complaint that you didn't see the Yeti. Maybe if enough people complain, they'll eventually do something.

[Polynesian Dweller]

Has Disney completely lost their creative edge?
So I guess Toy Story Mania isn't creative, the concept to create EE isn't creative, the Turtle Talk idea isn't creative. Nope, no creative ideas from Disney.

If the previous comment about the company that created the Yeti is out of business is accurate, then this is not an issue of creativity but rather if the technology to fix it is available. We don't have any info about whether the creating company used proprietary technology or not. If they did, it may be a huge problem to be able to repair.

When we don't have all the info, and we don't, we shouldn't immediately put down management, as is so frequent on this board. The truth is usually much more complicated than what is publicly known.

[Ian]

I heard a rumor today that the Yeti in EE was broken and because of the 2.1 million dollar cost to fix it they were thinking of just omiting it.Is this true or just bad info?I'm not sure about the $2.1 million figure, but the basic premise is correct.


...nothing but rumours yet, so lets not get too worked up ... No, it's not a rumor. It's true. The yeti hasn't been functioning in close to a year.


So I guess Toy Story Mania isn't creative, the concept to create EE isn't creative, the Turtle Talk idea isn't creative. Nope, no creative ideas from Disney.

If the previous comment about the company that created the Yeti is out of business is accurate, then this is not an issue of creativity but rather if the technology to fix it is available. We don't have any info about whether the creating company used proprietary technology or not. If they did, it may be a huge problem to be able to repair.

When we don't have all the info, and we don't, we shouldn't immediately put down management, as is so frequent on this board. The truth is usually much more complicated than what is publicly known.I don't want to put words in the OP's mouth, but I think he was more referring to the creativity required to come up with a better solution to the problem.

But the truth is, it really has nothing to do with creativity. It has to do with money. Imagineering could probably come up with 1,000 ways to fix it, but the bean counters won't foot the bill.

[spoonful of sugar]

I guess I won't miss it much because the 4 or 5 times I've ridden the ride I never saw the Yeti. When during the ride do you see it?

although i have seen the yeti i can honestly say that i was not impressed at all. i even found the ride to be boring.

[joonyer]

The Yeti has been broken for quite some time now. His arm is not fully attached to his body any more and he is ripping himself from his foundations. The company who created him has gone out of business. So there are lots of problems surrounding the figure and any replacemnt or repair would be costly and require shutting down the attraction for an extended period of time. One rumour that has been floating around is replacing him with a High Definition Video Screen.

Arm detached from body?
Ripped loose from foundation?
That's just poor quality engineering to begin with, and is a good reason why these kind of major components of attractions should be only performed by companies with long histories of reliable performance.

I don't know anything about who was given the contract for the Yeti, but if they got the job due to being the low bidder, well then Disney got what it paid for.

This situation is just Inexcusable. The Yeti should be re-engineered and put back into action, even if it does cost a lot of $$$$. Too bad the company that designed it has gone out of business. Now Disney has no recourse but to pick up the cost of repair itself.

Not that they'll do it, but I'd bet that if they put out a donation box with a sign that said "help repair the Yeti", that they could collect the cost of repair from ride-goers within a year.

[Diz-Knee]

Now that he's not functioning in A mode, maybe I can open my eyes again at the end of the ride! I never noticed the change because my eyes are always closed since riding it the first time. :blush:

[GrumpyFan]

although i have seen the yeti i can honestly say that i was not impressed at all. i even found the ride to be boring.

Wow, really?!?! If EE isn't exciting to you, then what is? Surely, Space Mountain and Big Thunder Mtn are boring too.

As coasters go, I found that EE has some of the best theming and story in any park Disney or not. The next closest might be RnR at DHS.

[joonyer]

. . . It really stinks that he's broken. From everything I've read, it's believed that the foundation he is on is cracked or broken and movement of the Yeti makes it worse. The only fix, apparently, involves a lot of rework to the mountain and it's foundation, as it would have to be torn out and re-done, which means it would also be down for a while.

It's sad too though that this has happened. The attraction was a real achievement for Imagineering when it was completed, now it's just a sad story of an imagineering project gone wrong. Not that I blame imagineering or anything. I think this is just one of those unforseen engineering problems that was a result of forces that were not anticipated. Hopefully, someday it will be fixed.

I have to disagree with this statement. Anticipating forces and stress in any construction project, whether a building or theme park attraction, is EXACTLY what professional engineers do for a living. The physical and mechanical forces exerted on a structure can in fact be foreseen and predicted by proper engineering principles, and the use of computer design makes doing this easier than ever before. These forces should have been foreseen and the design made to compensate for, if the engineering had been done properly. We are not talking about unexpected/outside forces here (hurricanes, earthquakes, airplanes crashing into buildings, etc.), we are talking about the forces exerted by the operation of the figure itself, something that should have been clearly been factored in to the design of the animatronic figure. They knew what it was going to be made of, how much it would weigh, how it would move, etc. and therefore the application of proper engineering principles would have revealed how to build it structurally sound enough to continue to operate rather than tear itself apart.
If the Yeti is coming apart and coming loose from its foundation, then this simply clear evidence of shoddy engineering and/or cut corners in construction. If the company that did the design, engineering and construction was still in existence, it would be liable for the repair and/or replacement costs.

[lockedoutlogic]

The only company with the long history in animatronics necessary to implement the yeti originally is WALT DISNEY IMAGINEERING

but i wonder to myself....would they even have had the capability to do this anymore? Have they been gutted so much that they can't perform the creative tasks in-house?


It's tragic really....Everest - the ride that would put Animal Kingdom back on the map - is really just a middle of the road steel coaster

[DizneyRox]

Actually Disney does has the expertise to build a 200 ft mountain. They employ not only artist, but also engineers, lighting desinger, etc. Imagineers are from all fields and they really do design and figure out the engineering of most projects.
Since the yeti has been broken for close to a year, I would still argue they do not have that expertise otherwise it wouldn't be broken.

That, or they did in fact sub contract it out because they didn't have the expertise and neither did whoever they contracted with

I'm sure it was their concept, yada yada yada, but somebody screwed up on this one. Whoever it is/was Disney is now the one holding the bag, so it's up to them to solve it. We'll have to wait and see what we get as a fix. Maybe they can whip up a few cardboard cut-outs ala Winnie The Pooh and nobody will know the difference.

The only company with the long history in animatronics necessary to implement the yeti originally is WALT DISNEY IMAGINEERING
Don't you mean WED?

Walt Disney Imagineering != WED (IMHO of course!)

[lockedoutlogic]

I agree with Jooyner....by the way

If engineers couldn't anticipate forces and stress.....we'd all be in a collapsed structure right now.....

That is the primary function of any engineer....to make sure it can hold together....first and foremost

[lockedoutlogic]

Don't you mean WED?

Walt Disney Imagineering != WED

yes....i take them as the same by any title

[spoonful of sugar]

Wow, really?!?! If EE isn't exciting to you, then what is? Surely, Space Mountain and Big Thunder Mtn are boring too.

As coasters go, I found that EE has some of the best theming and story in any park Disney or not. The next closest might be RnR at DHS.

i just feel that disney hyped up the ride so much that i was expecting a lot more i guess. i remember watching the program on tv about ee and just thinking it was going to be so much better. rnr well that's a huge rush and i didn't not get that from ee. just my opinion though.

[GrumpyFan]

Sorry guys, but I disagree. Engineering isn't a perfect science. Sure, it should try to anticipate 100% of the conditions under which a project will operate or be built in. And, many times it comes very close to achieving that. But, there are numerous documented examples in history, where things changed after building, or things happened in a way that just couldn't have been foreseen.

That's not to say that I necessarily am giving the engineers who built this a pass, because i don't know all of the details that went into building this. I'm just saying that it's possible, things turned out differently than what they projected. They built a big and heavy attraction on soil that is sometimes prone to shifting or being soft. I would assume that they tested the soil quite thoroughly before they built EE and designed accordingly. If I had to guess as to what happened, I would say that their calculations were probably off, but it's also possible that the earth shifted or the foundation wasn't properly constructed or any number of other factors. Truth is, none of us really know, and to blame the imagineers is kind of reckless.

[GAN]

i just feel that disney hyped up the ride so much that i was expecting a lot more i guess. i remember watching the program on tv about ee and just thinking it was going to be so much better. rnr well that's a huge rush and i didn't not get that from ee. just my opinion though.

I think it's as good as they could get it while attempting to make a very wide range of riders happy. It's pretty evident that the philosophy is to develop rides that all groups will enjoy -together. I've seen ages from 5 - 75 on EE, and then some... it's pretty cool to look at a grandparent having as much fun on a ride as the grandchild. Even though RnR provides a good rush, most of that is because of the initial start and being in the dark -in reality those loops aren't too scary, and it's a quick ride. It's tough to balance thrills without losing riders.

[Gregandmel]

We were there in October and this was our very first trip to Animal Kingdom. EE was our first ride and we LOVED it! Apparantly, the Yeti must've been broken (or in B mode as someone said) because I sure don't remember the Yeti reaching for us! however, because we didn't know there was something else the Yeti was SUPPOSED to do, we still loved the ride! I thought it was cool to just SEE the Yeti with the stobe lights on. For those of us that didn't know better, it was still a great ride. :thumbsup:

[joonyer]

Sorry guys, but I disagree. Engineering isn't a perfect science. Sure, it should try to anticipate 100% of the conditions under which a project will operate or be built in. And, many times it comes very close to achieving that. But, there are numerous documented examples in history, where things changed after building, or things happened in a way that just couldn't have been foreseen.

That's not to say that I necessarily am giving the engineers who built this a pass, because i don't know all of the details that went into building this. I'm just saying that it's possible, things turned out differently than what they projected. They built a big and heavy attraction on soil that is sometimes prone to shifting or being soft. I would assume that they tested the soil quite thoroughly before they built EE and designed accordingly. If I had to guess as to what happened, I would say that their calculations were probably off, but it's also possible that the earth shifted or the foundation wasn't properly constructed or any number of other factors. Truth is, none of us really know, and to blame the imagineers is kind of reckless.

If the sub-soil was soft or shifting, then the entire coaster/track would be at risk, which is not the case. I believe that it is only the foundation of the Yeti itself where that particular problem exists. And as far as the thing's arm coming off, well if you can't blame the designer, then nobody's at fault. An animatronic's figure's limb coming loose from it's body just from the motion it was designed to perform is clearly a design/engineering error. There is no other conclusion that can be reached. I don't know who did the design work, but they did it poorly. Surely they didn't design the thing to only work for 1 year.

[GrumpyFan]

If the sub-soil was soft or shifting, then the entire coaster/track would be at risk, which is not the case. I believe that it is only the foundation of the Yeti itself where that particular problem exists. And as far as the thing's arm coming off, well if you can't blame the designer, then nobody's at fault. An animatronic's figure's limb coming loose from it's body just from the motion it was designed to perform is clearly a design/engineering error. There is no other conclusion that can be reached. I don't know who did the design work, but they did it poorly. Surely they didn't design the thing to only work for 1 year.

I'm not sure about the arm coming off, this is the first I've heard of that particular issue. Again, though, without knowing ALL the details, it's not really fair to blame the engineers. It could've been designed properly and with the right foundations and implements, however, as many other projects have exeperienced, it could've been cut by someone in finance, or then CEO himself, Michael Eisner, as he was famous for doing. After all, he is the one who authorized Chester & Hester's.

Again though, without knowing ALL the details, I just don't think it's fair to place all the blame on the imagineers. Disney as a company messed this up, and for the sake of preserving the ride and a good show to their guests, need to fix it.

[JPL]

Well considering WDW's maintenance track record I would most likely blame them for the arm coming off. Remember these are precision machines that need proper care so cutting back in these areas will cause problems. And I would imagine the problems would be multiplied since the figure is so large and powerful. After hearin the imagineers who worked on SSE talk about how porrly the figures were maintained and that they had to scrap some figures because of it. I can imagine what the same neglect would do to a 25 foot tall figure with the thrust of a jet engine.

[joonyer]

It is true, as I mentioned, cutbacks in construction could have contributed to the problem, as well as maintenance issues. I was just trying to point out that those other issues aside, proper engineering would have meant that there shouldn't have been unforeseen problems with the Yeti's operation.
If it wasn't wasn't properly maintained, then someone should be fired for allowing an investment of that magnitude to be ruined.

[Ian]

This is a write-up from a reasonably reliable source on the yeti issues:


"...the [Expedition Everest] yeti has been in B-mode for weeks and months on end now, supposedly because the concrete fountain on which he is mounted has become irrevocably cracked.

The enormous Audio-Animatronic yeti at the end of Expedition Everest was deemed so important to the ride that a provision was made for when the robot broke; the creature would freeze in its spot, but strobe lights would create the illusion of movement, and the ride would not have to be shut down.

Reportedly, designers or construction laborers somehow didn't account for the repetition of such incredible forces, and now the figure cannot be used as designed. No word yet on what the permanent solution may be."

[DizneyRox]

... Reportedly, designers or construction laborers somehow didn't account for the repetition of such incredible forces, and now the figure cannot be used as designed.
That doesn't sit well. Sounds like deflection to try to cover up some mistakes. What are the construction laborers doing making decisions like these during construction. Which is my point, they weren't...

Sure there may have been some "shortcuts", but it was either built to specs or not. It should be easy enough to tell. There were many inspection made along to way to verify it was being built according to specs. It's should be easy to point the finger in this case... Who signed off on it?

[GrumpyFan]

That doesn't sit well. Sounds like deflection to try to cover up some mistakes. What are the construction laborers doing making decisions like these during construction. Which is my point, they weren't...

Sure there may have been some "shortcuts", but it was either built to specs or not. It should be easy enough to tell. There were many inspection made along to way to verify it was being built according to specs. It's should be easy to point the finger in this case... Who signed off on it?

Construction workers/laborers generally don't make decisions, especially not on a project of this magnitude. More likely, I would speculate the contractor may have cut corners to save a few bucks, or in this case, a few thousand or more.

No offense, but finger-pointing rarely does anything toward fixing the problem. Especially if those who did the work or were in charge are no longer around or in business. Which, unfortunately, happens a lot in construction. Sure, it can be helpful in identifying process failures, but often times in today's businesses, it's merely used as a political maneuver to get rid of the guilty parties, and promote others to a higher position, then business goes back to the usual.

Sorry, didn't mean to get on a :soapbox:
It's just that I'm a little sensitive to corporate politics and budget cutting when it leads to stupid mistakes that could've easily been avoided.

[lockedoutlogic]

Construction workers/laborers generally don't make decisions, especially not on a project of this magnitude. More likely, I would speculate the contractor may have cut corners to save a few bucks, or in this case, a few thousand or more.

No offense, but finger-pointing rarely does anything toward fixing the problem. Especially if those who did the work or were in charge are no longer around or in business. Which, unfortunately, happens a lot in construction. Sure, it can be helpful in identifying process failures, but often times in today's businesses, it's merely used as a political maneuver to get rid of the guilty parties, and promote others to a higher position, then business goes back to the usual.

Sorry, didn't mean to get on a :soapbox:
It's just that I'm a little sensitive to corporate politics and budget cutting when it leads to stupid mistakes that could've easily been avoided.


Grump,

You didn't read that last post right before responding....the poster was not blaming the construction workers.....

And secondly....and no offense here....but you about as far off base as you can be about the engineering/ design of the ride....

Things have gone wrong in the past? That's your argument? So you are saying that what? 1 in 10 go wrong? 1 in 50? 1 in 100?

Wrong, wrong, wrong.....try one in about a hundred thousand....or a million.....

And those mistakes...unlike the Tacoma Narrows Bridge (an all time screw up).....are rarely more than cracks in basement or slight misalignment.....

In something that features huge moving components....they are almost unheard of....because function and durability are the two things that MUST be achieved.

You seem to be snorting the pixie dust here a little.....

Somebody screwed up BIGTIME....whether its the subcontractor (likely)....or perhaps "artists" and "accountants" at WDI pushing something that really shouldn't have been built.....the damage is done....and it ultimately falls to the company selling the tickets....

Without the yeti.....Everest is a very average...moderate amusement ride. The show is gone.....and without the Yeti it absolutely kills any chance of a good "disney type show" that can make a 50 mph coaster with a 90 foot drop....both ridiculously meek by today's technology and thrill standards....into more than what it currently is....

Which is pretty much something at a Six Flags....

The pyramids were built 4500 years ago.....the parthenon 2500....

I think they coulda done a better job here.....don't you?

they should had pixar build it....:thedolls:

[Imagineer1981]

Without the yeti.....Everest is a very average...moderate amusement ride. The show is gone.....and without the Yeti it absolutely kills any chance of a good "disney type show" that can make a 50 mph coaster with a 90 foot drop....both ridiculously meek by today's technology and thrill standards....into more than what it currently is....


I disagree. I have still yet ride a rollercoaster that actually stops you twice with show elements. The broken track and then the shadow Yeti tearing up the track, 2 great show elements. Even when the Yeti was in A mode, tons of guest missed him and still loved the ride. You will not find that at a Six Flags. Even in B mode the Yeti is huge and an opposing figure, great effect

[GrumpyFan]

You didn't read that last post right before responding....the poster was not blaming the construction workers.....


Yes, I did! I wasn't blaming the construction workers either, merely pointing out the POSSIBILITY...



Things have gone wrong in the past? That's your argument? So you are saying that what? 1 in 10 go wrong? 1 in 50? 1 in 100?
Almost every major thrill ride has to be adjusted once it gets built/installed in the park (not just Disney, either). Why? Because of a multitude of things that can and do change...

Same thing happens sometimes on other major projects too... No, they're not common, and most go unnoticed, but they do happen, and occasionally one crops up that is major and costs the designer or construction company big bucks to fix.




You seem to be snorting the pixie dust here a little.....
Hmm... Nevermind...



Somebody screwed up BIGTIME....whether its the subcontractor (likely)....or perhaps "artists" and "accountants" at WDI pushing something that really shouldn't have been built.....the damage is done....and it ultimately falls to the company selling the tickets....
In all likelihood, you're probably right, somebody probably did screw up. But, note, I said PROBABLY. My whole point was it's kind of reckless to point fingers at ANYBODY without knowing all the details, which none of us here have.

There were hundreds if not thousands of people involved in the project and any one of them could've been the culprit, or even NONE of them. It's entirely possible that the problem is something that happened underneath the foundation (soil shift, water pocket, unknown fault) that nobody could've seen or anticipated. It happens, especially in Florida.

I think somewhere in the postings, someone was blaming imagineering for the issue, and my whole point was in defense of them since we don't really know. In all likelihood, yes, someone probably did screw up somewhere, and Disney needs to make it right and fix it.



The pyramids were built 4500 years ago.....the parthenon 2500....

I think they coulda done a better job here.....don't you?


You're joking, right?

[GrumpyFan]

I disagree. I have still yet ride a rollercoaster that actually stops you twice with show elements. The broken track and then the shadow Yeti tearing up the track, 2 great show elements. Even when the Yeti was in A mode, tons of guest missed him and still loved the ride. You will not find that at a Six Flags. Even in B mode the Yeti is huge and an opposing figure, great effect

I have to agree as well. While it's disappointing that the Yeti isn't working as designed, it's still a thrilling ride. But, then I enjoy Goofy's Barnstormer too, so what's that saying. :D

On a related note, I always thought the placement of the Yeti was bad regardless of whether he's working. You come down a steep drop and he's right there reaching for you, then you immediately exit the mountain and the ride's over. Still fun, but a little bit short.

[BluewaterBrad]

The yeti rocks!! :mickey:

[DizneyRox]

I have still yet ride a rollercoaster that actually stops you twice with show elements. The broken track and then the shadow Yeti tearing up the track, 2 great show elements.
I've heard great things about the Mummy Ride over at Universal. Seeminly it's tough to beat. I'm looking forward to heading over there later this summer.

[rkwctw]

When we have riden in the past we hardly noticed the Yeti moving at all. If it is broke hopefully it will not be done when we are there in June. With SM and TTA down then as well, it would be a big disappointment.
:mickey:

[Ian]

You know, there's a misconception floating through this thread that I want to clear up.

As far as I'm aware, and research bears this out, WDI built the yeti. It was not subcontracted out to a company that "went out of business." I think someone may have confused the Expedition Everest's yeti with Mission: Space's ride system.

But based on all I've read, the yeti AA was, in fact, built by Disney.

This (http://machinedesign.com/article/engineering-expedition-everest-complete-with-a-yeti-0810) article seems to support that.

[DizneyRox]

But based on all I've read, the yeti AA was, in fact, built by Disney.

This (http://machinedesign.com/article/engineering-expedition-everest-complete-with-a-yeti-0810) article seems to support that.
See! I told you they don't have the expertise for something like this! :thumbsup:

[JPL]

He was designed by Disney but built by an outsourced company. I will have find the Company name. But I know for a fact the Yeti was not built in house. It was probably more like we need a figure that looks like this and and can do this here are some sketches and a general plan can you build this and make it work.

[lockedoutlogic]

I disagree. I have still yet ride a rollercoaster that actually stops you twice with show elements. The broken track and then the shadow Yeti tearing up the track, 2 great show elements. Even when the Yeti was in A mode, tons of guest missed him and still loved the ride. You will not find that at a Six Flags. Even in B mode the Yeti is huge and an opposing figure, great effect

Because it's better than Big Thunder Mountain....it doesn't make it a world class thrill....

Now you are on the dust.....

It's cool because it has dark portions and switches directions.....but not spectacular....

Coaster technology is way....WAY ahead of this....

Not to say it's "bad"....its still a decent ride....but only that...

And animal kingdom needed a home run...not a bloop single....

Not to mention all the time and money thrown into it......to not have the "guts" of the show available indefinitely or perhaps ever again is not acceptible to me....the consumer

The fact that it is to Disney is an alarming trend.....

Why don't they turn it into a Character meeting spot? how about a pin station? Can they have Cinderella serve food in there? enough light for a girls hair saloon?

you see where i'm at here.....

[GrumpyFan]

Wow Locked, I'm down on Disney right now too because of some of their decisions, but you sound really, really negative! I understand to a degree, but you just sound extremely bitter.

BTW: I think pretty much everybody here, is "on the dust". It's kinda why we come here.

[lockedoutlogic]

Wow Locked, I'm down on Disney right now too because of some of their decisions, but you sound really, really negative! I understand to a degree, but you just sound extremely bitter.

BTW: I think pretty much everybody here, is "on the dust". It's kinda why we come here.

I don't put lipstick on a pi.....

ahhhh....nevermind:thedolls:

The economy is down....many have been hurt unlike previous rollbacks because many more people are invested in markets than even 10-20 years ago....
Central Florida....is under severe stress.....partially because they base almost everything on the frivality we all know and love called "travel"...partly because the financial snakeoil sold to the lower end of the payscale nationwide was shelled out by the gallon in the unwitting florida sun.....as the statistics show. Why anyone could make the same money in 1998 and not qualify a house....then think they could afford one at 3-5 times their annual salary in 2004...I'll never know
The statistics bare this out....

And then you have Disney.....which talks about "tough" times and promptly stops hiring....lays off many with decades of senority....sells week trips at 1/2 price and then complains about profits.....cuts back everything not tied down....has no development/ reinvestment past the obviously advantageous timeshares....outsources an entire guest area....begins "adding" things such as dance parties and balloons....

And all the while....maintains or increases the price of everything in times where obviously spending on travel is the first thing to go....

They can't be trusted here....because they will take away in bad.....give back in good....and jack prices so you are paying much more for what you used to get......well beyond inflation.

Unfortunately....it is an established pattern now....and past is prologue.....

Am I negative? Sure....
Am I wrong?....well....that takes a little more thought.

And just consider this: perhaps those that criticize love it more than those that cheer? just maybe....like many things in life

[GAN]

And then you have Disney.....which talks about "tough" times and promptly stops hiring....lays off many with decades of senority....sells week trips at 1/2 price and then complains about profits.....cuts back everything not tied down....has no development/ reinvestment past the obviously advantageous timeshares....outsources an entire guest area....begins "adding" things such as dance parties and balloons....

And all the while....maintains or increases the price of everything in times where obviously spending on travel is the first thing to go....



.... and how else would they have been able to support Bob Iger's 13.9M bonus?

[Wells]

I disagree. I have still yet ride a rollercoaster that actually stops you twice with show elements. The broken track and then the shadow Yeti tearing up the track, 2 great show elements. Even when the Yeti was in A mode, tons of guest missed him and still loved the ride. You will not find that at a Six Flags. Even in B mode the Yeti is huge and an opposing figure, great effect

Ummm....There are two pre-Everest coasters that come to mind, both at Universal Orlando.
"The amazing adventures of Spiderman" (O.K., I know this is not really a coaster) and "Revenge of the Mummy". Both feature multiple pauses in the ride with elaborate effects.
Anyway, I agree that Everest is still a good show, even without a highly animated Yeti, but I think that this is the crux of the matter. Everest doesn't need an animatronics that generates the "force of a jet engine", just a convincing two second illusion of one. The original design was way over concepted and way under designed....

[Wells]

...And just consider this: perhaps those that criticize love it more than those that cheer? just maybe....like many things in life

...Familiarity breeds contempt?....;)

[grumpyguy]

hello....the yeti is an integral part of this attraction imo.it's the basis of the whole story line!!to have just a "shadow" on the wall at the end for the climax takes away from the experience for sure.as someone else posted,the smoke and mirrors with a strobe or two" won't cut it at this point,give me animotronics!!:thumbsup:

[JPL]

The main feature of the attraction that was hyped was the AA Yeti. Go Back and listen to Joe Rhode talk about the attraction and the Yeti is the Focal point the payoff at the end of the journey. I think one point that is being lost here is this in years past this would have been considered unacceptable show or as most people call it bad show and now it is quickly becoming the norm especially at WDW. Not only has the Yeti ceased to operate but some sfx never worked and they chose to shut them down rather than fix them.

[Ian]

He was designed by Disney but built by an outsourced company. I will have find the Company name. But I know for a fact the Yeti was not built in house. It was probably more like we need a figure that looks like this and and can do this here are some sketches and a general plan can you build this and make it work.I'd like to see a name if you can produce it, because I spent like 90 minutes yesterday checking through Google, Wikipedia, and pretty much every other resource I could find and I came up with not one single, solitary company name associated with that yeti that didn't start with a "D", end with a "Y", and have an "isne" in the middle.

I'm almost certain they designed and built it.

[Mousemates]

hello....the yeti is an integral part of this attraction imo.it's the basis of the whole story line!!to have just a "shadow" on the wall at the end for the climax takes away from the experience for sure.as someone else posted,the smoke and mirrors with a strobe or two" won't cut it at this point,give me animotronics!!

:ditto:

At disney, its all about the story. If all I wanted was a thrill ride and to see some animals scattered about I could go to Busch Gardens in Tampa and ride Sheikra (or the Williamsburg version The Griffon). The rides at Disney are fun because of the story lines and without the stories the rides are just so-so.

I mean how much fun would space mountain really be if you didn't launch through flashing red lights or turned on the lights in the ride area

or would we really be willing to wait that long to ride what is a very short roller coaster, if not for the story line that goes with RnR...(kind of makes you wonder if the next line of cost-cutting will force them to drop Aerosmith for a more afforable act...say Rick Springfield who was playing a second fiddle casino the last time we drove through Reno...or maybe even a Country coaster with Roy clark and Buck Owens on their way to a Hee Haw reunion).

To me AK was already just a half day park at best (we typically go only during evening EMH so we can ride at night which adds a nice atmosphere to the outdoor rides)....with a scaled back version of EE we might skip the park altogether on most trips...or at least until the mythical beastly/night/kingdom magicly appears.;)

[GrumpyFan]

Everyone who is displeased with the non-functioning/broken Yeti, should contact guest services and complain. You can do that by sending an email to: [email protected] (//[email protected])
or, better still, send an actual letter to any one, or all of the following:
Walt Disney World Guest Communications
PO Box 10040
Lake Buena Vista, FL 32830-0040


Mr. Robert Iger
Chief Executive Officer
The Walt Disney Company
500 South Buena Vista Street
Burbank, CA 91521-4873

Mr. James A. Rasulo
Chairman
Walt Disney Parks & Resorts
500 South Buena Vista Street
Burbank, CA 91521-4873

Meg Crofton
President
The Walt Disney World Resort
PO Box 10040
Lake Buena Vista, FL 32830


Al Weiss
President
Worldwide Operations
Walt Disney Parks and Resorts
PO Box 10000
Lake Buena Vista, FL 32830
Or, you could go to guest services while in the park as well.

Of course, there's no guarantee that anything will come from it, but it can't hurt.

[spoonful of sugar]

part of an article from machinedesign.com:

The yeti performs the same movements for each show and systems engineers had to ensure yeti movements mimic those of a living creature and look real from a wide range of angles. To get the profiles right for all 19 actuators, engineers use a control box built in the 1960s by Disney specifically for "electronic puppeteering."

maybe the control box built in the 1960's has something to do with it, LOL. hello . . . this is 2009.

[DizneyRox]

In addition to the letter writing and phone calls, an online petition has been set up.

Normal place, petition ID: HELPYETI

:thedolls:

[GrumpyFan]

In addition to the letter writing and phone calls, an online petition has been set up.

Normal place, petition ID: HELPYETI

:thedolls:

Not familiar with what the "Normal place" is. Please PM me with the link.

[DizneyRox]

Normal Place = world wide web dot petition online dot com

[lockedoutlogic]

I agree with what several have said....

The Yeti is the ride.....it isn't complete without it and they cannot push it as anything more than an average thrill without it....

The best example is Splash Mountain (which i believe to be the greatest ride constructed by disney...just ahead of Tower, Journey to the Center of the Earth, Pirates, and Haunted Mansion)

Splash Mountain, when broken apart by components....isn't much

An average amusement park flune....combined with Disney cartoon theming....combined with fairly simplistic AA technology for the time it was created....

Yet together...it's spectacular.

Disney rides are more than they sum of their parts.....and Everest without the Yeti can't live up to that.

[BMan62]

Normal Place = world wide web dot petition online dot com

No can find HELPYETI at 'normal' place???

[Ian]

I have to be honest. I think folks are somewhat overstating the import of the yeti here.

I mean look ... the darn thing is visible for what? MAYBE 5 seconds?? Tops?? It hardly dictated my level of enjoyment of the attraction when it was working vs. non-working. Heck, it's not even like it's missing. It's still there. It's just not moving around.

My opinion has been and is that the thing was underwhelming to the nth degree anyway. I could never fathom why, in a million-billion years, they spent all this money to develop this fancy-schmancy audio-animatronic and then showed it to you while you were flying by at 25 miles an hour.

And yet, in the scene where you're sitting still and actually have a few moments to enjoy things, they used a stupid animated shadow??? Dumb, dumb, dumb.

Me personally ... I love the ride yeti or no yeti. It's fun. Is it the greatest coaster on the planet? No. But it's still cool and that stupid yeti, in my opinion, had very little to do with it. I thought it was a big waste.

[Nascfan]

Does anyone know what Joe Rohde thinks of the situation? Hearing him talk about the attraction and his research on it and such, he sounded like a kid in a candy store.
I can't imagine he's too happy about his Yeti being in what could be permanent B mode.

[ojeilatan]

This breaks my heart. I would have no issue going without EE for an extended period of time if it meant the needed TLC was happening. But, I'm doubting this unless AK gets a new attraction soon.

I really hope the rehab is done. And, since they have to tear it out anyway, perhaps they can reposition the yeti for more face time? just a dream, probably.

[DizneyRox]

I have to be honest. I think folks are somewhat overstating the import of the yeti here.

I mean look ... the darn thing is visible for what? MAYBE 5 seconds?? Tops?? It hardly dictated my level of enjoyment of the attraction when it was working vs. non-working. Heck, it's not even like it's missing. It's still there. It's just not moving around.

My opinion has been and is that the thing was underwhelming to the nth degree anyway. I could never fathom why, in a million-billion years, they spent all this money to develop this fancy-schmancy audio-animatronic and then showed it to you while you were flying by at 25 miles an hour.

And yet, in the scene where you're sitting still and actually have a few moments to enjoy things, they used a stupid animated shadow??? Dumb, dumb, dumb.

Me personally ... I love the ride yeti or no yeti. It's fun. Is it the greatest coaster on the planet? No. But it's still cool and that stupid yeti, in my opinion, had very little to do with it. I thought it was a big waste.
I somewhat agree... They did 4 shows on the whole yeti thing to hype it (that includes a lame Jeff Corwin show). When I first rode it, I expected that animatronic yeti to be a major part of the attraction. I was thinking something more along the lines of Kongfrontation over at Universal was what they were going to do with that beast. Instead we whiz by at break neck speeds without even an inkling of what's coming up to prepare.

Is it good? Sure it is, but you need to ride a couple times to actually see the thing. Even in A Mode, blink and you'll miss him.

Overrated? Sure it is, BUT without that, it's Big Thunder Mountain Railroad.

I'm not a huge coaster fan. I like them, but not enough to wait in a 2+ hour line for one (although Superman over at 6 Flags New England is pretty sweet!). Definitely not to view a shadow puppet on a cave wall.

[lockedoutlogic]

I have to be honest. I think folks are somewhat overstating the import of the yeti here.

I mean look ... the darn thing is visible for what? MAYBE 5 seconds?? Tops?? It hardly dictated my level of enjoyment of the attraction when it was working vs. non-working. Heck, it's not even like it's missing. It's still there. It's just not moving around.

My opinion has been and is that the thing was underwhelming to the nth degree anyway. I could never fathom why, in a million-billion years, they spent all this money to develop this fancy-schmancy audio-animatronic and then showed it to you while you were flying by at 25 miles an hour.

And yet, in the scene where you're sitting still and actually have a few moments to enjoy things, they used a stupid animated shadow??? Dumb, dumb, dumb.

Me personally ... I love the ride yeti or no yeti. It's fun. Is it the greatest coaster on the planet? No. But it's still cool and that stupid yeti, in my opinion, had very little to do with it. I thought it was a big waste.

I agree with alot of your take....

I had originally thought that perhaps you would at least circle around the yeti....giving people a chance to take a good gawk at it.....

But overall it is underwhelming....and fun at the same time....

Really....it's Big Thunder Mountain on rocket fuel......not much more...

A good waste of a minute.....but sadly not some sort of saviour for the park....

Animal Kingdom needs more attractions of all forms and more animals to make it a destination park.....you know....the kind people think about when they get on and off the plane....

It is not that....and judging by the great example of MGM....may never be...

[DizneyRox]

No can find HELPYETI at 'normal' place???
It appears their search engine doesn't index the site too quick.

If you put /HELPYETI after the "normal" place, it goes there. What a miserable failure that online petition place is.

I've just updated my homepage to he right spot, makes everyone's life easier...

[GrumpyFan]

Disney rides are more than they sum of their parts.....and Everest without the Yeti can't live up to that.

I agree with everything you said there, except, I would change it just slightly and say - Everest without the Yeti operating in his full intended form can't live up to that. Otherwise, it's just a thrill ride whose story is incomplete.

What makes Disney rides so unique and spectacular compared to others is the story in them. If the storytellers (characters/animatronics) are broken, then the story doesn't really work.

[lockedoutlogic]

I agree with everything you said there, except, I would change it just slightly and say - Everest without the Yeti operating in his full intended form can't live up to that. Otherwise, it's just a thrill ride whose story is incomplete.

What makes Disney rides so unique and spectacular compared to others is the story in them. If the storytellers (characters/animatronics) are broken, then the story doesn't really work.

now we're practically shaking hands at camp david with Sadat.....:thumbsup:

[Ian]

All of you who are espousing the "every attraction has to have a story" position should probably go read this (http://imagineerebirth.blogspot.com/2006/11/myth-of-story.html) article over at the Re-Imagineering blog.

The whole notion that every Disney ride is supposed to have a story is a big myth. That was an Eisner thing, not a Walt thing.


We don't really have a story, with a beginning, an end, or a plot. It's more a series of experiences building up to a climax. I call them experience rides. - Marc Davis, 1969

[GAN]

Listen, don't worry, the Yeti will be back up and running soon. I just wrote to Disney and asked for Iger to use part of the $13.9M bonus he received towards the repair cost. I'm sure he'll have no problem accommodating the request.

[Mousemates]

all of you who are espousing the "every attraction has to have a story" position should probably go read this article over at the Re-Imagineering blog.

The whole notion that every Disney ride is supposed to have a story is a big myth. That was an Eisner thing, not a Walt thing.


Quote:
We don't really have a story, with a beginning, an end, or a plot. It's more a series of experiences building up to a climax. I call them experience rides. - Marc Davis, 1969

I think this actually helps makes our point...the yeti is the climax...of the story, the experience ride or whatever one chooses to call it.

[cgriff]

Random thoughts:

"It's a terrible ride if the Yeti isn't in A mode"... What, the ride cars don't swoosh as fast, the hills don't climb as high, the turns don't pitch as steep, your stomach doesn't climb up into your throat in quite the same way if the Yeti's hairy right arm doesn't move a little bit as your car passes underneath it? :D

"No different than Big Thunder Mountain"... That claim should be considered unassailable courthouse proof that someone hasn't ridden the two rides. :D

"Worst roller coaster in the history of roller coasters"... Duuude, now we know who here owns stock in Seagrams/Universal. :D

Speaking of Universal... "Spiderman is better!"... "Mummy is 10x better!"... Please recall the numerous discussion threads with all of the whining, moaning and gnashing of teeth about the crumminess of rides always being based on movies... "Where's the originality?" ..."What a commercial sell-out!"... Ahem, Expedition Everest = No movie tie-in. Spiderman and The Mummy?????? That's two rides based on, what, six different movies!?!?! :D

"The Yeti isn't on-stage for long enough"... You know, I once thought that it would be great if there was a once-in-a-blue-moon C-mode version of the ride where the EE train cars would come to a stop for an unprecedented third time --right in front of the Yeti in the Yeti chamber --and the whoolly beast suddenly straightens up into a formal stance, grabs an imaginary lapel with his left hand and starts to recite the first few lines from the Gettysburgh Address... :D then your car suddenly starts moving again, hurtling out of the mountain...

I'm serious about that last one!

[DizneyRox]

I think this actually helps makes our point...the yeti is the climax...of the story, the experience ride or whatever one chooses to call it.
Walt referred to it as a weenie I beleive...

Not that I want to get into the whole Walt would turn over in his grave debate, etc. But, the Yeti is the draw for EE, says so all over the queue. To not see the yeti is a let down.

[cgriff]

To not see the yeti is a let down.

Zoom! -- Zip! -- Woosh! -- Gone! Half the people who rode EE on opening day didn't "see the yeti"! And that was when he was in A+++ mode!

[lockedoutlogic]

Random thoughts:

"It's a terrible ride if the Yeti isn't in A mode"... What, the ride cars don't swoosh as fast, the hills don't climb as high, the turns don't pitch as steep, your stomach doesn't climb up into your throat in quite the same way if the Yeti's hairy right arm doesn't move a little bit as your car passes underneath it? :D

"No different than Big Thunder Mountain"... That claim should be considered unassailable courthouse proof that someone hasn't ridden the two rides. :D

"Worst roller coaster in the history of roller coasters"... Duuude, now we know who here owns stock in Seagrams/Universal. :D

Speaking of Universal... "Spiderman is better!"... "Mummy is 10x better!"... Please recall the numerous discussion threads with all of the whining, moaning and gnashing of teeth about the crumminess of rides always being based on movies... "Where's the originality?" ..."What a commercial sell-out!"... Ahem, Expedition Everest = No movie tie-in. Spiderman and The Mummy?????? That's two rides based on, what, six different movies!?!?! :D

"The Yeti isn't on-stage for long enough"... You know, I once thought that it would be great if there was a once-in-a-blue-moon C-mode version of the ride where the EE train cars would come to a stop for an unprecedented third time --right in front of the Yeti in the Yeti chamber --and the whoolly beast suddenly straightens up into a formal stance, grabs an imaginary lapel with his left hand and starts to recite the first few lines from the Gettysburgh Address... :D then your car suddenly starts moving again, hurtling out of the mountain...

I'm serious about that last one!

Uh oh....we have another one on the dust.....

Everest without the story...is an average thrill ride. Perhaps you need to ride more than just Everest and Big Thunder....and you might see where the world outside the purple gates might be coming from...

What time do you clock in tomorrow?:thumbsup:

[tjstrike]

I could care less if the Yeti moves, I still love the ride, but I guess you should get what you're promised and pay for. I think Disney feels the same way, otherwise it would be fixed by now.

[LarryBoy]

"The Yeti isn't on-stage for long enough"... You know, I once thought that it would be great if there was a once-in-a-blue-moon C-mode version of the ride where the EE train cars would come to a stop for an unprecedented third time --right in front of the Yeti in the Yeti chamber --and the whoolly beast suddenly straightens up into a formal stance, grabs an imaginary lapel with his left hand and starts to recite the first few lines from the Gettysburgh Address... :D then your car suddenly starts moving again, hurtling out of the mountain...

I'm serious about that last one!

I was thinking Shakepeare, perhaps some Hamlet or King Lear, would be more Yeti like, but otherwise I like this idea. :D

[cgriff]

Uh oh....we have another one on the dust...Perhaps you need to ride more than just Everest and Big Thunder...

"poquito manners", indeed!

[lockedoutlogic]

"poquito manners", indeed!


that's the second time i got that this week....going for the Hat Trick...

seriously though.....everest is meek for a coaster built in 2005....

don't let my jabs dull the point.....errrr.....yeah....that's what i ment:mickey:

And you are way to corporate on this....no offense (buy i was right on the clock in thing....wasn't I?)

and by the way....try not to selectively edit posts to take the guts out of them and leave the quips.....

I'm harsh....but usually I have some type of fact or reasonable opinion in there somewhere

[cgriff]

that's the second time i got that this week....going for the Hat Trick...

"poquito manners", indeed! (There's the hat trick). But when the hat trick is scored *against you*, that's normally something one doesn't strive for...

I don't think that Expedition Everest is a meek coaster at all. I don't see how that makes me "corporate".


and by the way....try not to selectively edit posts to take the guts out of them and leave the quips...

ICDWTHIWTD! Is that an example of me being "corporate" or of me being "incorporate"?

[lockedoutlogic]

"poquito manners", indeed! (There's the hat trick). But when the hat trick is scored *against you*, that's normally something one doesn't strive for...

I don't think that Expedition Everest is a meek coaster at all. I don't see how that makes me "corporate".



ICDWTHIWTD! Is that an example of me being "corporate" or of me being "incorporate"?


Woah there...i'm just playing with you a little.....

I do disagree with your stance that the Yeti is "no big thing"

Perhaps if they had not hyped it that way...i'd let it slide....

But the yeti and the coaster and the mountain were a package deal....according to DISNEY

So yeah I'm harsh...it's probably annoying to many....

Kinda like all the "i'm offended by this" that comes on out on practically EVERY topic....even when they're benign....

so it's really more style points than anything:thedolls:

[Mousemates]

lockedoutlogic to cgriff

and by the way....try not to selectively edit posts to take the guts out of them and leave the quips.....

While we are in general agreement about EE, :thumbsup: when I went back and read cgriffs post i didn't see any attempt at evisceration, disembowelment, or the gutting of your post. :confused: (gee....i hope its not the dust).;)

All I saw was a focused quotation which pointed out the particular comments he took umbrage with. I actually prefer this approach (as you can see from my quotation) since it leaves no doubt as to what the point of contention actually is. But to each his own. :mickey:

[JPL]

For anyone that doesn't think the Yeti was meant to be a big deal or the main focus of the ride go back and listen to Joe Rhode speak about the attraction and the purpose the Yeti serves in the story.

[cgriff]

I do disagree with your stance that the Yeti is "no big thing"


The Yeti is huge. What are you talking about?

Oh... do you mean when I say that the ride is a great ride whether the Yeti is in A mode or in B mode? Well, I stand by that statement. It doesn't mean that I don't like the Yeti.

This new argument you've developed now, about the hype leading up to the opening of the attraction (4 years ago), and that because of the hype back then the ride must always remain the way that it did on opening day, disregarding that it might now be dangerous to operate the Yeti in A mode... That argument doesn't charm me, sorry.

It's not dust, but it might be :marg:

[GrumpyFan]

For anyone that doesn't think the Yeti was meant to be a big deal or the main focus of the ride go back and listen to Joe Rhode speak about the attraction and the purpose the Yeti serves in the story.

Most definitely! That's why the story is built up all thru the queue with news stories, photos and dozens of miscellaneous items supposedly relating to past Yeti sightings, all in an effort to prepare you for your own encounter with him.

[lockedoutlogic]

The Yeti is huge. What are you talking about?

Oh... do you mean when I say that the ride is a great ride whether the Yeti is in A mode or in B mode? Well, I stand by that statement. It doesn't mean that I don't like the Yeti.

This new argument you've developed now, about the hype leading up to the opening of the attraction (4 years ago), and that because of the hype back then the ride must always remain the way that it did on opening day, disregarding that it might now be dangerous to operate the Yeti in A mode... That argument doesn't charm me, sorry.

It's not dust, but it might be :marg:

Ok...let's be completely literal...something i choose rarely to do...

THE RIDE WITHOUT THE YETI IS MERELY A SLIGHT UPGRADE OVER BIG THUNDER MOUNTAIN AND SHOULD NOT BE ACCEPTIBLE TO EITHER THE DISNEY COMPANY OR THE CONSUMER (ME).
I BELIEVE IT IS EMBARASSING - AND DOES NOT EVEN FULFILL IT'S GOAL OF PLUGGING PART OF THE HOLE AT ANIMAL KINGDOM THAT HAS BEEN THERE SINCE THE DAY IT OPENED BECAUSE THEY CHOOSE TO NOT FULLY DEVELOP THE FOOTPRINT OF THE PARK....A LA MGM

how's that?

[Ian]

Walt referred to it as a weenie I beleive... Well ... technically he used the term weenie only when describing ways to draw guests from one place to another.

I.E. he wanted to draw guests up Main Street and into the park so he placed a big "weenie" (Sleeping Beauty Castle) at the hub.


Not that I want to get into the whole Walt would turn over in his grave debate, etc. But, the Yeti is the draw for EE, says so all over the queue. To not see the yeti is a let down.But see, you still see the yeti. You just don't see it moving. The alleged "story" doesn't suffer because the yeti is still present.


Zoom! -- Zip! -- Woosh! -- Gone! Half the people who rode EE on opening day didn't "see the yeti"! And that was when he was in A+++ mode!You're rarely going to hear me say this ... which probably reflects well on cgriff ;) ... but I agree with cgriff.

People are over-reacting ... the thing is still there. It just doesn't move.

[BrerGnat]

Alright, here's my take. I just went to WDW a couple weeks ago. Last time I was there was in Feb 2007. At that time, the Yeti was fully functional.

THIS time, I had NO idea that he was broken. In fact, I just found this out right now while reading this post.

I rode EE, and I enjoyed it as much as I did in 2007. And you know what? I didn't even NOTICE that the Yeti was any different! I did notice the strobe lights, but I didn't realize it was different from what I experienced back in 2007. We all enjoyed the ride as much as we did 2 years ago.

My point is, and I bet Disney is using this argument as a valid (to them) reason to leave the ride "as is" for now, the "average guest" is NOT going to notice the difference. They will enjoy the ride regardless of whether the Yeti is in A mode or B mode. The "average" guest, or the first time guest on EE will not be reading all these discussion boards, and won't necessarily know what the Yeti is CAPABLE of doing, or what he is SUPPOSED to do. They will get off the ride, along with the other THOUSANDS every day and exclaim how awesome of a ride it is.

The 90+ minute waits all week I was there are testament to the ride's continued popularity.

I still saw the Yeti for the same amount of time I did 2 years ago. All that was missing was the swipe of the hand, and really, at the time, I didn't even notice it was missing! It's only now, that I think back, that I realize "oh yeah, he didn't really move." But I still had a great time, especially since we were chosen as the "magical moments guests of the hour" and escorted through the Fastpass line, and got to skip that darn 90 min line! THAT was sweet. :thumbsup:

[GrumpyFan]

My point is, and I bet Disney is using this argument as a valid (to them) reason to leave the ride "as is" for now, the "average guest" is NOT going to notice the difference. They will enjoy the ride regardless of whether the Yeti is in A mode or B mode. The "average" guest, or the first time guest on EE will not be reading all these discussion boards, and won't necessarily know what the Yeti is CAPABLE of doing, or what he is SUPPOSED to do. They will get off the ride, along with the other THOUSANDS every day and exclaim how awesome of a ride it is.


Agreed. To the "average guest", which is probably about 90% of those who visit, the reduced functioning, "B mode" will go unnoticed. Those of us who are the fanatics represent a small portion of the guests visiting, and thus don't really matter in the grand scheme because we also make up less than 10% of the revenue generated. So, IF the Yeti is ever fixed, it could be a long time from now.

[Ian]

And I would just like to point out that Nat and I are both most decidedly not "just regular guests" and it doesn't affect our enjoyment of the ride either.

So you can probably bump that 90% number up even higher.

Honestly, I'll get ripped for saying this, but if you're truly talking about repairs that would cost millions and result in a lengthy shutdown of the attraction then I agree with Disney's decision to leave it as-is.

I don't see any way that cost-benefit analysis could come out on the right end for fixing the yeti.

[BMan62]

I must say that I have to agree with Ian in that, from a cost analysis viewpoint, it does not make sense to 'fix' the Yeti if 90+% of the people riding EE do not even notice the difference.

My thoughts FOR fixing the Yeti are that 1) there were 'tests' of two or three versions of the Yeti animatronic (A, B, C modes) and the majority of test riders preferred the moving arm Yeti; 2) most, if not all, promotional materials played up the animatronic Yeti, not a statue of a Yeti; and 3) I, personally, thought the arm swinging out over the track was 'cool!' :blush:

Maybe they could make it so the Yeti arm is extended over the track, lock it in that position, and use the strobes to make it seem to be in motion? I actually have never seen the Yeti in B or C modes, so I don't know what affect those modes have on the ride, but as others have said, this goes by so quickly - does it really matter?

[JPL]

Once again I will point out that the most likely cause of this problem is Maintenance as stated the ride has not gone for a refurb in almost 4 years! It's long overdue!

As for people not noticing that could be true but it's much easier to miss a static object with strob lights than one reaching out at you.


And I am sorry but people who think $2.1M is too much money to fix a component of a ride that cost over a $100M. That's about 2% of the cost of the attraction I'm sure it has brought more than $2.1M in revenues in over the past 4 years.

Sorry it also just sets a disturbing trend what's next oh half the Pirates aren't working but leave the ride open our guests won't notice it.

[GrumpyFan]

And I am sorry but people who think $2.1M is too much money to fix a component of a ride that cost over a $100M. That's about 2% of the cost of the attraction I'm sure it has brought more than $2.1M in revenues in over the past 4 years.

Sorry it also just sets a disturbing trend what's next oh half the Pirates aren't working but leave the ride open our guests won't notice it.

I think we all agree here, that it SHOULD be fixed, regardless of the cost. But, if I had to guess, I would say that the budget for the maintenance department to fix it is not set up such that they can spend THAT kind of money. Besides that, they're probably arguing internally about WHO should fix it, Imagineering or Maintenance. The way things work at Disney is once a new project is completed by Imagineering, it's future maintenance and upkeep is turned over to the parks' maintenance department. So, it's probably stuck between the two. Imagineering spent all the money they were budgeted to build the attraction, and the repairs exceed or would wipe out the allotted budget that maintenance has to work with. Also, during this time in which all departments are cutting costs everywhere, I would imagine that Disney is very resistant to taking their main thrill attraction for AK offline, especially considering
that it's largely responsible for boosting AK's attendance for the last few years. And, if it's operating safely and there are no other major issues, why would they?

Don't get me wrong, I want to see it fixed and restored to it's original state. But, I understand why they're not in a rush to do it. From a business stand-point, It's just not reasonable. It would be like you or I sending our primary automobile that we use to drive to work everyday into the shop for a couple of weeks to be painted. And, don't give me the line about "Walt would fix it", because really, we don't know what he would do, because he's not here.

[DizneyRox]

My problem is not with one malfunction, or one problem. My problem is with the trend... For years, Disney has been doing this. They started skimping on nightly maintenance. Then they started reducing upkeep of the grounds, then they started reducing hours a bit, then this went down and didn't get fixed, then that, what's next?

The less is more and more for less attitude is really disturbing. Maybe more for me because I know I've got DVC there pulling me back and I know that I'll need to expect less and less each year. I'm done giving them the benefit of the doubt, they have proved time and time again that they don't have the guest in mind anymore at all. Unless there's a dollar still left in their pocket, but they'll do only what's necessary to get it.

[lockedoutlogic]

I gotta say...

I'm shocked by Ian and BMan taking the stance that "from a cost standpoint"...it shouldn't be fixed....

It's about quality....the quality of the ride and the product that Disney sells to us....

And you guys.....like many including myself....insist that the decline in quality..or disney tradition in general...is perhaps the single biggest problem at WDW....

Isn't the abandoning of a key element of a feature attraction 4 years into it's operation (or more like 3...actually) not a textbook example of that?

It should be fixed....because it SHOULD be embarrassing to Disney.

[BMan62]

I gotta say...

I'm shocked by Ian and BMan taking the stance that "from a cost standpoint"...it shouldn't be fixed....

It's about quality....the quality of the ride and the product that Disney sells to us....

And you guys.....like many including myself....insist that the decline in quality..or disney tradition in general...is perhaps the single biggest problem at WDW....

Isn't the abandoning of a key element of a feature attraction 4 years into it's operation (or more like 3...actually) not a textbook example of that?

It should be fixed....because it SHOULD be embarrassing to Disney.

After the beat down I took on saying that Disney should be investing in park infrastructure and attractions, I started looking at the costs that they are cutting. If they can put off, indefinitely, maintenance on something like the Yeti, maybe they can keep a couple more CM's employed.

No, it's not a good answer, but there are more important things to avoid cuts on right now.

BTW - I was the first to sign the HELPYETI petition, so understand that I do want it fixed - eventually.

[big blue and hairy]

And I would just like to point out that Nat and I are both most decidedly not "just regular guests" and it doesn't affect our enjoyment of the ride either.

So you can probably bump that 90% number up even higher.

Honestly, I'll get ripped for saying this, but if you're truly talking about repairs that would cost millions and result in a lengthy shutdown of the attraction then I agree with Disney's decision to leave it as-is.

I don't see any way that cost-benefit analysis could come out on the right end for fixing the yeti.You can add me to the list. Of course it would be great if the ride were fixed, but how long would it take, how much would it cost?

Crowds may be up, but profits are not. This isn't the time to take out THE MOST POPULAR ATTRACTION IN THE PARK for what would most likely by a sizable amount of time.

Unlike someone *cough* lockedout *cough*, most of us can see that EE had a huge positive effect on Animal Kingdom...

:sulley:

[GrumpyFan]

I'm torn on this. If I look at historical Disney actions, yes, it should be fixed. But, I know from a 2009 tight economy standpoint where every dollar spent has to count standpoint, it doesn't make sense to fix it right now. Do I want them to fix it? Most Definitely! But, I also understand them not fixing it right now. Is it "bad show"? Kinda. In some way it could be the same as playing the understudy instead of the primary actor. So, while the show is somewhat diminished, it's not ruined.

It's frustrating and disappointing, but I'm not real sure what to do about it. I highly doubt that we could influence them to do anything about it. And, our continuing to discuss it ad nauseam just further frustrates us and accomplishes nothing.

[lockedoutlogic]

You can add me to the list. Of course it would be great if the ride were fixed, but how long would it take, how much would it cost?

Crowds may be up, but profits are not. This isn't the time to take out THE MOST POPULAR ATTRACTION IN THE PARK for what would most likely by a sizable amount of time.

Unlike someone *cough* lockedout *cough*, most of us can see that EE had a huge positive effect on Animal Kingdom...

:sulley:


I think you are overestimating how much rides have to do with revenues....and profits are generated by merchandise....that's the story

I know....they are bellyaching about declining revenues...."we just don't have the money to do anything:unsure:"

BUBKIS!!!!

We all know that they could build 10 rides right now and not really sweat it...other than from the yearly budget perspective....

But WDW is a cash grab first and foremost....so if there is any decline in revenue....the actual product takes the first hit.

Look...I'm not marginilizing the money....it would be a lenghty repair and costly...

But at what point do they draw the line on corner cutting....they've already gone too far...

perhaps your implication is that Animal Kingdom can't survive without Everest for six months.....

Well...it's still not that popular....and it survived as well as can be expected for 8 years without alot of stuff to do before.....just like mgm sat for a full 10 years with a couple of bad shows and rides and the Movie Ride....

The brilliance of the parkhopper concept....most everyone is locked into multiday tickets...and if they have them, they will go no matter what's inside the gate.

Tickets will still be sold....and i doubt seriously that the everest show dump shop is raking in billions....

[big blue and hairy]

I think you are overestimating how much rides have to do with revenues....and profits are generated by merchandise....that's the story

Soooooo....you don't think Expedition Everest increased visits, and the length of visits to Animal Kingdom? I suppose you also think Toy Story Mania had no affect on attandance at Hollywood Studios?

Ummmm....tell me, how do you sell merchandise to people who....wait for it....aren't there???!

:sulley:

[Mousemates]

It should be fixed....because it SHOULD be embarrassing to Disney.

exactly.

[GrumpyFan]

perhaps your implication is that Animal Kingdom can't survive without Everest for six months.....

Well...it's still not that popular....and it survived as well as can be expected for 8 years without alot of stuff to do before.....just like mgm sat for a full 10 years with a couple of bad shows and rides and the Movie Ride....



Ahem... attendance figures might say differently...

Estimated Attendance figures for 2006 show 8.9 million versus just 8.2 million the year before. That's 8.5% if you do the math, the most the park has grown since it's opening. In fact, 2006 marked the FIRST year the park exceeded it's opening year attendance of 8.6 million. Apparently, a lot of people visited the first year when it opened, but didn't see anything significant enough to warrant a return, because attendance dropped year after year until 2003, when it slowly started climbing. So, read what you will there... but, the addition of EE certainly didn't hurt AK.

That's not to say they can't do without it for a while, but it will have a impact on attendance figures while it's down.

Just for grins, thought I would add the estimated attendance figures for the last 9 years (2008 numbers aren't available yet).

Animal Kingdom Attendance (millions)
1999 - 8.6
2000 - 8.2
2001 - 7.7
2002 - 7 (not reported)
2003 - 7.3
2004 -7.8
2005 - 8.2
2006 - 8.9
2007 - 9.4

Note: The attendance figures are reported via several different theme park related web sites. Disney does not report the actual numbers.

[joonyer]

Remember though, that a particular park attendance and ticket sales cannot be directly correlated, because of the way Disney sells park passes.

I would bet that there are not very many people who purchased a single day MYW park pass just so they could go to AK and experience EE. The vast overwhelming majority of guests purchase multi-day park passes, many of them (i don;t know the %) with the park hopper option.

If a particular attarction is closed, like Space mountain for instance, I doubt that has a significant impact on the sale of park passes. In the same way it is hard y=to assess the impact of EE on the sale of park passes, although it very likely did increase the attendance at AK. More people used on of their multi-day passes to go to AK or made mulitple visits to ride EE. But I'll bet that most of those people would have purchased those multi-day park passes whether EE was there or not. Thus while it may have contributed to increased attendance, it would be very hard to assess how many more park passes were sold because of it.

We love the AK, but we would spend the same amount of money on meals, lodging and park passes and extras on our trips to WDW even if AK did not exist.

[JPL]

Actually in a sense when Disney Closes and attraction they are actually saving money. Since the operating expenses go away for that time period.

[big blue and hairy]

Remember though, that a particular park attendance and ticket sales cannot be directly correlated, because of the way Disney sells park passes. .........

We love the AK, but we would spend the same amount of money on meals, lodging and park passes and extras on our trips to WDW even if AK did not exist.
You might, but without going to AK, a lot of folks may well cut their vacations by a day, or perish the thought! spend more time at Universal!

:sulley:

[big blue and hairy]

Actually in a sense when Disney Closes and attraction they are actually saving money. Since the operating expenses go away for that time period.
1. Not if less people are going to the park and spending money

2. Not if they are spending millions to fix the attraction...

:sulley:

[Ian]

And I am sorry but people who think $2.1M is too much money to fix a component of a ride that cost over a $100M. That's about 2% of the cost of the attraction I'm sure it has brought more than $2.1M in revenues in over the past 4 years.It's not that $2.1 million is too much money. It's that it's too much money to spend for, basically, zero return.

My opinion is (and continues to be) that the broken yeti has exactly a 0% impact on ... well ... anything! No one cares, for the most part.

Has anyone here said, "Well the yeti is broken. I'm not riding Everest!" Or, more importantly, I'm not going to Disney World!

No. Of course not. So you can't spend $2.1 million with no upside. There has to be an ROE for the spend or it's not a good decision.


My problem is not with one malfunction, or one problem. My problem is with the trend... For years, Disney has been doing this. They started skimping on nightly maintenance. Then they started reducing upkeep of the grounds, then they started reducing hours a bit, then this went down and didn't get fixed, then that, what's next?This I can't disagree with.

But I dunno ... I just don't put this in the same category as not painting as often, not changing light bulbs as often, etc.

Why? Not sure ... maybe because I just don't think it impacts the guest experience to any great degree.


I gotta say...

I'm shocked by Ian and BMan taking the stance that "from a cost standpoint"...it shouldn't be fixed....

It's about quality....the quality of the ride and the product that Disney sells to us....This is why I don't think it's a big deal.

Because I really don't think it impacts the quality of the ride much. On a scale of 1 to 100 it's maybe a 3 in terms of impact.

A 3 doesn't warrant a $2.1 million expense. That's $2.1 mil I'd MUCH rather see them spend in about a trillion other places first.

[DizneyRox]

...
On a scale of 1 to 100 it's maybe a 3 in terms of impact.

A 3 doesn't warrant a $2.1 million expense. That's $2.1 mil I'd MUCH rather see them spend in about a trillion other places first.
But they won't/aren't spending that 2.1M elsewhere. It's going towards profits. If you gave me the chance to make a list of things to spend 2.1M on inside the WDW world resort, SURE, there are things I would put ahead of the yeti. But there is no list!

[lockedoutlogic]

Soooooo....you don't think Expedition Everest increased visits, and the length of visits to Animal Kingdom? I suppose you also think Toy Story Mania had no affect on attandance at Hollywood Studios?

Ummmm....tell me, how do you sell merchandise to people who....wait for it....aren't there???!

:sulley:

rides increase attendance only slightly...and really it's only measurable in the first months of the attraction when you see a somewhat noticeable spike....

Attendance at WDW is based on the selling of the multiday or length of stay tickets....it has been for a long time. And those sales are somewhere in the six month to two year advance range...typically.

So basically.....the years attendance numbers are determined predominantly by advance bookings and annual passes.....

and those numbers do play out....

What? the numbers for animal kingdom (and all the other parks) went up significantly from 2003 to 2008? when the place went from slow (2002) to absolutely mobbed for five years?

surely ye jest....

And the numbers even go better than that.....where the magic kingdom and epcot seem to always to have significant advantages over the other two....because they were fully developed while AK and DHS were not....


So in all these fanatastic numbers....what is the net effect of Everest or Toy Story Mania?

not a whole heck of alot....by my estimation

[joonyer]

If the Yeti was standing on the outside of the mountain , where it could be viewed by everyone for an extended length of time, Or if you could observe it for longer inside the mountain (assuming it was lit up during the viewing experience (like the AA' s in POC or Splash Mtn., Disney might be more inclined to repair it.

As it is you can only see it for a split second as you fly by, so that is why most people don't notice that its not moving or if it needs maintenance. Because of the limited opportunity for guests to observe it, Disney has less incentive to spend $$$ to repair or maintain it.

I wondered from the beginning why they spent so much $$$ on an AA figure that riders could only see fro a split second. WE rode EE a lot when it first opened when the yeti's arm was still moving, and DW never even saw him at all, because she had her eyes closed during most of the ride. :blush: She would never notice if he wasn't there at all.

[Meerkat]

Since I work at this attraction, I'm not supposed to be commenting here. But let just clarify a couple of things.
1. Disney cares very much that it's highly touted animatronic icon is not working. Joe Rhode is all over it.

2. The $2.1 million repair cost figure quoted in this thread is not correct. It is substantially more.

3. The yeti will be fixed, but no one wants to shut down the attraction during the extensive repair period. So the Imagineers must come up with some sort of screen or illusion that (first) insures the safety of riders passing through the construction area and (second) hides the construction work and (third) maintains the ride theme.

We are all waiting to see what happens next.

[Ian]

But they won't/aren't spending that 2.1M elsewhere. It's going towards profits. If you gave me the chance to make a list of things to spend 2.1M on inside the WDW world resort, SURE, there are things I would put ahead of the yeti. But there is no list!Well that's another issue altogether.

But in this context, I agree with you.

[GrumpyFan]

I would disagree about rides increasing attendance only slightly. Maybe that's true at other parks, but because Disney is known for building fabulously themed attractions, the attendance bump is going to 6 months or more. That, and the fact they advertise and market their new attractions pretty agressively.

Attendance dropped steeply at the end of 2001 and lasted throughout much of 2002 because of the terrorist actions on 9/11. Prior to that attendance across the 4 parks was 42.7 million for 2000. They didn't supass that number again until 2005, when they had 42.8 million visitors.
Prior to AK opening, the average daily attendance across the 3 parks was 32,500 visitors, which I would've imagined made the parks pretty crowded, or at least Epcot and MGM because those 2 parks were averaging right at 10 million visitors. You should note that in 2007/8, the average daily attendance across the 4 parks was 32,100, which puts them back at the levels of 1998.

Magic Kingdom and Epcot, while yes they were "fully developed", still made additions or changes to their attractions that stimulated return visits.

It's hard to say what the net effect of TSM is because of the rough economy and high gas prices last year. However, the attendance figures for 2008 show DHS had the highest growth rate at .95% compare to .53% of AK and 0 for both Epcot and MK. So, one could theorize (in my estimation at least) that TSM helped that park, and overall WDW attendance in 2008 as well.


BTW: If you're interested, I've compiled a spreadsheet that breaks down the park attendance figures for the last 10 years. It's pretty interesting. PM me and I will send you the link.

[Nascfan]

Thanks Meerkat! Appreciate your response and insight into the situation. :thumbsup:

[PetefromRI]

Wow,this thread certainly took on a life of it's own.I can always count on you guys for an answer,so far I got about 117 of them.

[BrerGnat]

I think you are overestimating how much rides have to do with revenues....and profits are generated by merchandise....that's the story


perhaps your implication is that Animal Kingdom can't survive without Everest for six months.....

The brilliance of the parkhopper concept....most everyone is locked into multiday tickets...and if they have them, they will go no matter what's inside the gate.

Tickets will still be sold....and i doubt seriously that the everest show dump shop is raking in billions....

Hey guess what? You know WHY I went to AK on my trip? TO RIDE EXPEDITION EVEREST. That's IT. Period. I got extremely ill on my first full day of vacation, and ended up spending 2 days in my hotel room. My sister and friend went to AK one day without me. They also went ONLY to ride Everest. While there, they also spent money on food at Flame Tree BBQ (not on the DDP). And, my friend found a monkey toy that she wanted to buy for her friend's son for his 1st birthday.

When I was feeling better, I wanted to go to AK, but the ONLY reason I felt compelled to go there was to ride Expedition Everest. If that ride had not been there, or had been down, I would have COMPLETELY skipped AK, even though we had park hoppers. I simply didn't have enough time to allocate to AK, given that I had "wasted" 2 days of my vacation being sick. However, while in AK to ride Everest, since we got "front of the line magical moment passes", and in effect, skippped the 90 min wait, we also rode one other ride, which we weren't planning for at all. We ALSO again ate at Flame Tree BBQ and my friend purchased that monkey toy. SO, we spent some $$$ on food/merchandise at AK that we otherwise wouldn't have had Expedition Everest not been there or been closed for repair.

Take that for what it's worth. I am a seasoned WDW visitor, and as far as AK is concerned, it's not a "must do" on my repeat visits, EXCEPT to ride E:E. When I go with my kids for the first time, of course we will go there so the KIDS can experience all the stuff for the first time (as I would do for any "first time visitor"). However, the bottom line is, for repeat visitors, that park is stale, unless you get a HUGE thrill out of (maybe) seeing some animals and want to see more of the same in regards to live stage shows (personally, I'm of the feeling that if you've seen them once, that's enough).

[joonyer]

But BrerGnat, if you hadn't gone to AK, wouldn't you have gone to another park, and ended up spending money there as well? It all goes into the same pot. EE may increase attendance at AK, but it's more difficult to assess how much revenue it produces. Attendance and Revenue are two different things at WDW, due to the multiple parks and the way multi-day and hopper passes are sold.

[JPL]

1. Not if less people are going to the park and spending money

2. Not if they are spending millions to fix the attraction...

:sulley:

So Those people will spend their money at another Park or DTD. As for spending Millions to fix the attractions that is likely going to happen at some point but while the ride is closed for refurb they are not spending the money to run the attraction so in essence they are cutting dailly operating expenses. When they need to cut spending the first thing they do is cut attraction hours or park hours so this is actually proof this works. As i stated abve the people with tickets will still spend their money elsewhere.

[grwoolf]

interesting thread.

First, let me say that I think EE is much more impressive with a working Yeti and it was the highlight of the ride for me back when it was working. Seeing something so big move that fast is probably the most impressive single feature I've seen at any attraction at WDW. I don't see how anyone could miss it or not tell the difference in A vs B like some have posted. But that's my opinion. It's also my opinion that EE is still a great ride in B mode and a huge draw for the park (just look at the lines).

I take a lot of interest to Disney's business model as it relates to their attractions and ride elements. Sometimes I find myself looking at an element of an attraction and think "wow, how much $ did they spend on a single detail, and did it really make sense from a cost/benefit standpoint?" Many of the details at WDW simply cannot justify their individual costs. However, I think the sum of all those expensive details is what ultimately makes Disney great and successful in business.

It does bother me when I see key ride elements down for exteneded periods of time and I think it is a terrible waste of the investments Disney makes in their original ride designs. I saw the hopping rabbit on Splash Mtn working for the first time in 5 years on our last trip (and the cones on test track). These kind of things bother me a lot becuase I can't believe they would be that hard to keep running. The current Yeti problem is another animal so to speak if the rumors are true about the nature of the problems. Beyond the cost of repair issue (not to be ignored), there is the trade off between upsetting people if the ride is down for extended repair vs. the disappointment of the stationary Yeti (many people don't even know he could move). If I were running the Zoo, I think I'd need to keep the ride running until it was time for it's first significant rehab and address the Yeti issue at that time. Unfortunately, I have a feeling he will be down for a long time (if not forever).

[JPL]

I saw the hopping rabbit on Splash Mtn working for the first time in 5 years on our last trip

Tony Baxter refers to that as the Million Dollar Rabbit



These kind of things bother me a lot becuase I can't believe they would be that hard to keep running.

Maintenance sadly is the first cutback they make to pad the bottom line. This causes lots of friction between Imagineering and operations.

[lockedoutlogic]

Hey guess what? You know WHY I went to AK on my trip? TO RIDE EXPEDITION EVEREST. That's IT. Period. I got extremely ill on my first full day of vacation, and ended up spending 2 days in my hotel room. My sister and friend went to AK one day without me. They also went ONLY to ride Everest. While there, they also spent money on food at Flame Tree BBQ (not on the DDP). And, my friend found a monkey toy that she wanted to buy for her friend's son for his 1st birthday.

When I was feeling better, I wanted to go to AK, but the ONLY reason I felt compelled to go there was to ride Expedition Everest. If that ride had not been there, or had been down, I would have COMPLETELY skipped AK, even though we had park hoppers. I simply didn't have enough time to allocate to AK, given that I had "wasted" 2 days of my vacation being sick. However, while in AK to ride Everest, since we got "front of the line magical moment passes", and in effect, skippped the 90 min wait, we also rode one other ride, which we weren't planning for at all. We ALSO again ate at Flame Tree BBQ and my friend purchased that monkey toy. SO, we spent some $$$ on food/merchandise at AK that we otherwise wouldn't have had Expedition Everest not been there or been closed for repair.

Take that for what it's worth. I am a seasoned WDW visitor, and as far as AK is concerned, it's not a "must do" on my repeat visits, EXCEPT to ride E:E. When I go with my kids for the first time, of course we will go there so the KIDS can experience all the stuff for the first time (as I would do for any "first time visitor"). However, the bottom line is, for repeat visitors, that park is stale, unless you get a HUGE thrill out of (maybe) seeing some animals and want to see more of the same in regards to live stage shows (personally, I'm of the feeling that if you've seen them once, that's enough).


ok...that's a neat little story


BUT GUESS WHAT?!

it doesn't say anything about pattern....

[lockedoutlogic]

I would disagree about rides increasing attendance only slightly. Maybe that's true at other parks, but because Disney is known for building fabulously themed attractions, the attendance bump is going to 6 months or more. That, and the fact they advertise and market their new attractions pretty agressively.

Attendance dropped steeply at the end of 2001 and lasted throughout much of 2002 because of the terrorist actions on 9/11. Prior to that attendance across the 4 parks was 42.7 million for 2000. They didn't supass that number again until 2005, when they had 42.8 million visitors.
Prior to AK opening, the average daily attendance across the 3 parks was 32,500 visitors, which I would've imagined made the parks pretty crowded, or at least Epcot and MGM because those 2 parks were averaging right at 10 million visitors. You should note that in 2007/8, the average daily attendance across the 4 parks was 32,100, which puts them back at the levels of 1998.

Magic Kingdom and Epcot, while yes they were "fully developed", still made additions or changes to their attractions that stimulated return visits.

It's hard to say what the net effect of TSM is because of the rough economy and high gas prices last year. However, the attendance figures for 2008 show DHS had the highest growth rate at .95% compare to .53% of AK and 0 for both Epcot and MK. So, one could theorize (in my estimation at least) that TSM helped that park, and overall WDW attendance in 2008 as well.


BTW: If you're interested, I've compiled a spreadsheet that breaks down the park attendance figures for the last 10 years. It's pretty interesting. PM me and I will send you the link.

Grump....that's a great post....you seem to have spent alot of time looking at the numbers and analyzing them....

BUT....

there are a couple of things that are a little off...

First....the 2008 numbers would reflect nothing of the economy last year...those trips were by and large planned well before the Bush Bubble broke....


the same thing goes for the "trending up" numbers of MGM after midway....the visitors were coming by and large with absolutely no knowledge of the ride.....same with everest in 05. Remember: we that follow this everyday are in a minute minority....the lions share still simply book trips to "go to Didney to see mickey"

I would also argue that a single new attraction does not cause new travel to any statisical significance.....if you're going...you're going. And while those of us that live disney will maybe make a trip on occasion just to get in on something new....it's such a small percentage of their overal business that it really doesn't affect much. I would think more than actually generating new business...a new E ticket would cause people to alter which days they go to which parks....perhaps a second go to that particular park (there's your bump). But that would not generate any more revenue...it still is one big pot

The one exception is perhaps Florida residents....who have the means to squeeze in small trips just for new rides....they are a significant portion of the clientel...but as a former resident, i didn't see widespread pushing and shoving to get on something new immediately. They have all the time in the world to go when it's convenient

By the same token.....trips to WDW are still far too expensive to schedule just to see one ride when it opens for the vast majority of travelers. DVC has perhaps lessened that gap a little. But i would still surmise that at least 70% of the travelers are planning their trips because the timing and money are right...irregardless of whether there's a couple new attractions out of 150 or so to choose from...

And the one final thing.....the slowdown in 01-02 was certainly magnified by terrorist stuff (actually it was kinda irrational fear that did most of it...other thanthe victims (which were too many) and those in NY, PA, MD, and VA that were directly impacted...and the military that was called out afterward)...but the brakes screeched at WDW in 2001 months before....
I was there from 00-03...and after the milennium thing ended....there was a significant falloff...somewhat naturally.

Of these "15 month celebrations" Milennium was by far the biggest in terms of packing people in.....25th was a big one that started the trend....and 2.2 years of a bazillion dreams was more of a reflexion of the "let them eat cake" phoney money atmosphere that most recently crashed....but millenium was muchas grande.

After it ended....there just didn't seem to be much going on.....no new mainline attractions were coming...a lull that lasted 5 years until mission space, soarin, and everest...and it just seemed to be a natural drawback.

They followed with some ill conceived knee-jerks....most notably Dinorama and the "100 years of magic"

But it took a couple of years and about a trillion dollars in inflated accounting reports to get things cracking again for the boom that just recently ended....

September 2001 certainly put a big gash in the business....but the crack was already there....honestly (i can remember predicting that disney would go slash and burn and blame al qeuda......which they almost immediately did....but business was already down)

[GrumpyFan]

First....the 2008 numbers would reflect nothing of the economy last year...those trips were by and large planned well before the Bush Bubble broke....


I'm not going to try and argue everything you disputed, I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree, but I will argue this point. The travel industry took a BIG hit last year due to the high gas prices and airfares, it's well documented.



the same thing goes for the "trending up" numbers of MGM after midway....the visitors were coming by and large with absolutely no knowledge of the ride.....same with everest in 05.

I would also argue that a single new attraction does not cause new travel to any statisical significance.....if you're going...you're going. And while those of us that live disney will maybe make a trip on occasion just to get in on something new....it's such a small percentage of their overal business that it really doesn't affect much.
Then how do you explain the higher numbers for AK & DHS last year? Coincidence? Perhaps, but I think it's a result of two things. 1) Advertising & word of mouth 2) Return visitors to experience again the two newest thrill rides. MK nor Epcot added anything of major significance, and hence their numbers were flat. I would dare to speculate that if DHS had not added TSM, they would've actually declined last year.


Of these "15 month celebrations" Milennium was by far the biggest in terms of packing people in.....25th was a big one that started the trend....and 2.2 years of a bazillion dreams was more of a reflexion of the "let them eat cake" phoney money atmosphere that most recently crashed....but millenium was muchas grande.

Actually, if you go back and look at the attendance figures, 2000 was a declining attendance year. The were down -.23%.

[lockedoutlogic]

I'm not going to try and argue everything you disputed, I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree, but I will argue this point. The travel industry took a BIG hit last year due to the high gas prices and airfares, it's well documented.

Then how do you explain the higher numbers for AK & DHS last year? Coincidence? Perhaps, but I think it's a result of two things. 1) Advertising & word of mouth 2) Return visitors to experience again the two newest thrill rides. MK nor Epcot added anything of major significance, and hence their numbers were flat. I would dare to speculate that if DHS had not added TSM, they would've actually declined last year.


Actually, if you go back and look at the attendance figures, 2000 was a declining attendance year. The were down -.23%.

[/SIZE][/FONT]

First....you're right about the fuel crunch.....i was being too short term with that one...
Though....oil prices were in varying degrees of ridiculousocity for the last 6 years....
I think the widespread travel crunch affected more regional locations such as say....Mytle Beach...than they ever really put a dent into WDW. WDW defies logic in many ways.


The rise in attendance at MGM and AK is alot of overflow from MK and EPCOT....
It pretty much always has been a fallback for the big brother parks....that might explain alot of it if it was a good attendance year...which it certainly was.
Midway Mania was only online for what? 5 months last year?....and everest had been there for 3 years....so i still don't see the "one ride" correlation having much gravitas.

The millenium number was surprising....but remember that it also was fully underway in 1999....how do those numbers play out? if 99 was huge...and then it flattened in 2000...then that would still validate the effect of the Millenium.
Remember too the numbers are kinda weird now because of the complete bloating from 2004-2008. And I submit that funny money is almost the sole reason for that.....lots of travel when anybody can get a Discover with a 30,000 dollar limit.

And 2000 was....if memory serves....an astounding profit year for the time....so perhaps crowd levels remained the same....but they threw down alot of scratch. And we all know that that is the ONLY thing that really matters in Team Disney

well played though....touche'e:thedolls:

[big blue and hairy]

I'm not tryng to be mean or sarcastic, but every theme park expert or business expert I've read, has said the Expedition Everest is a huge reason why attendance at AK has risen. Do you know better than all of them?

Everyone who is saying well they'd just spend their money somewhere else in WDW, how the heck do you know that??! WDW may be the best thing in Orlando, but it's not the only thing. You don't think any of those people would go to Universal or Seaworld? One of the biggest reasons to build AK in the first place was to extend people's Disney vacations! It stands to reason without going to AK, the vacations could either get shorter or redirected.

:sulley:

[RBrooksC]

What I think is funny is there aren't many people who are looking at the business side of this. If the cost the fix the Yeti right now is outweighed by implementing new attractions, keeping the employees that are left (including keeping those blessed Unions happy), keeping costs in check, and keeping down the prices for visitors. If the ride is working and telling the story it is supposed to tell, then the priority of fixing the Yeti will be put on the back burner.

I fail to see how the Yeti not waving it's arm is that big of a deal. That should NEVER be a deal-breaker. Either you like the ride or you don't. The Yeti is such a small and fleeting part of the ride, that it doesn't even matter to me.

When you send your cards and letter to Disney expressing your disappointment, remember that you are sitting in your chair where a company's money is no object. Take a seat in the CFO's chair, pour over their Disney Financial statements before demanding the company go in and fix a very expensive prop.

[big blue and hairy]

Ummm....There are two pre-Everest coasters that come to mind, both at Universal Orlando.
"The amazing adventures of Spiderman" (O.K., I know this is not really a coaster) and "Revenge of the Mummy". Both feature multiple pauses in the ride with elaborate effects.
I beleive you confirmed the post you quoted. Spiderman is not a coaster, and Mummy is not pre-Everest.

:sulley:

[big blue and hairy]

What I think is funny is there aren't many people who are looking at the business side of this. If the cost the fix the Yeti right now is outweighed but implementing new attractions, keeping the employees that are left (including keeping those blessed Unions happy), keeping costs in check, and keeping down the prices for visitors. If the ride is working and telling the story it is supposed to tell, then the priority of fixing the Yeti will be put on the back burner.

I fail to see how the Yeti not waving it's arm is that big of a deal. That should NEVER be a deal-breaker. Either you like the ride or you don't. The Yeti is such a small and fleeting part of the ride, that it doesn't even matter to me.

When you send your cards and letter to Disney expressing your disappointment, remember that you are sitting in your chair where a company's money is no object. Take a seat in the CFO's chair, pour over their Disney Financial statements before demanding the company go in and fix a very expensive prop.
I agree completely, and I'm pretty sure several other posters do also. The only thing I'd like to see tweaked short term (of course long term I would like to see it fixed) is the speed of the strobes, it may have been highly tested, but some of my rides, I almost can't see the Yeti at all, and moving or not it's impressive.

:sulley:

[lockedoutlogic]

I'm not tryng to be mean or sarcastic, but every theme park expert or business expert I've read, has said the Expedition Everest is a huge reason why attendance at AK has risen. Do you know better than all of them?

Everyone who is saying well they'd just spend their money somewhere else in WDW, how the heck do you know that??! WDW may be the best thing in Orlando, but it's not the only thing. You don't think any of those people would go to Universal or Seaworld? One of the biggest reasons to build AK in the first place was to extend people's Disney vacations! It stands to reason without going to AK, the vacations could either get shorter or redirected.

:sulley:


every theme park expert i've every read (jim hill doesn't count) usually phrases it like this:

"Walt disney world is having record attendance...and they have new rides"

they are usually pretty careful not to attribute figures and profits to just one thing.....

But i can see your point.


Still...i'm gonna have to say that it would take alot to convince me that attendance goes up in a huge way just because of a new ride....

it's too small of a thing in the overall model at WDW.....and trips to disney are too expensive to just throw on a whim to get on a specific ride (i don't think anyone is giving this premise enough thought)

[big blue and hairy]

Still...i'm gonna have to say that it would take alot to convince me that attendance goes up in a huge way just because of a new ride....

it's too small of a thing in the overall model at WDW.....and trips to disney are too expensive to just throw on a whim to get on a specific ride (i don't think anyone is giving this premise enough thought)
I disagree.

1. You don't spend that much money on one attraction because it will have a negligible effect.

2. Right here on Intercot and on other Disney sites, I've also read many posts that are so happy the AK is not just a half day or once in a while park anymore.

3. Part of the increase in attendance is directly attributable to the coolness of the ride. Another part is that a very cool ride was added so there is more to do at AK.

Of course more people go and stay longer because of EE.

Also, your repeated arguement that EE can't be a great coaster because it's not the most technologically advanced is silly. The quality of the experience is what matters. I'm fairly certain that in a lot of ways Spiderman is more technologically advanced, but I much prefer the experience of EE.

I doubt anybody here doesn't want the Yeti fixed, but there is a time when it makes sense. Also, according to the insider, it's being worked on.

:sulley:

[Ian]

Still...i'm gonna have to say that it would take alot to convince me that attendance goes up in a huge way just because of a new ride....Huh. I typically can find some common ground with you on most of what you say and I think that, by and large, we agree on more than we disagree on.

But I think you're completely wrong with this one. I, in fact, think it's the exact opposite. I bet if you had access to the numbers you would see an almost immediate spike in theme park attendance as soon as a new, big budget, highly publicized attraction is open.

I'm not talking about the Laugh Floor or minor additions like that. But your Everests, your Soarins, your Toy Story Manias ... I think they add immediately and impactfully to the bottom line from day one.

Do I have stats to back that up? No. Disney doesn't release numbers with enough granularity to prove that out. But to me it's common sense. Why? Why else would they spend hundreds of millions of dollars opening new blockbuster attractions?

I've seen Mufasa lurking around the boards lately ... I would love to hear him chime in on this topic ...

[big blue and hairy]

But I think you're completely wrong with this one. I, in fact, think it's the exact opposite. I bet if you had access to the numbers you would see an almost immediate spike in theme park attendance as soon as a new, big budget, highly publicized attraction is open. I agree completely, that's the point I was also making.


Do I have stats to back that up? No. Disney doesn't release numbers with enough granularity to prove that out. But to me it's common sense. Why? Why else would they spend hundreds of millions of dollars opening new blockbuster attractions?Yup.


I've seen Mufasa lurking around the boards lately ... ooooooo....say it again...:cool: sorry...had to be said...

:sulley:

[Imagineer1981]

My opinion is (and continues to be) that the broken yeti has exactly a 0% impact on ... well ... anything! No one cares, for the most part.

Has anyone here said, "Well the yeti is broken. I'm not riding Everest!" Or, more importantly, I'm not going to Disney World!

To even further your point, I think the average guest, not the Disney diehards like ourselves, have no clue. They don't even know what A mode or B mode is. They know its a cool rollercoaster and at one point it stops and goes backwards, whips them around and they think they saw a giant yeti at the end, and they ABOSLUTELY love it. I bet you 99% of guests could ride it in A mode and B mode and NEVER NEVER NEVER know the difference

[GrumpyFan]

The rise in attendance at MGM and AK is alot of overflow from MK and EPCOT....
It pretty much always has been a fallback for the big brother parks....that might explain alot of it if it was a good attendance year...which it certainly was.

You make it sound like the only reason people go to AK/DHS is because the others are too crowded. I agree that AK and DHS are fallbacks when the others are heavily crowded, and neither are considered full day parks. But, they both still have enough attractions and the kind of attractions that people plan at least 1 day of their vacation for.


Midway Mania was only online for what? 5 months last year?....and everest had been there for 3 years....so i still don't see the "one ride" correlation having much gravitas.
Actually, TSM opened May 31st. So, they had a good 7 months which to me would've added a good bump.
It's been reported in several places, that since EE opened in April of 2006, AK has seen a big increase in attendance. And the figures would seem to back that up. Attendance at AK was up 8.5% in 2006 or over 700,000 additional visitors, which is pretty high if you ask me.



The millenium number was surprising....but remember that it also was fully underway in 1999....how do those numbers play out? if 99 was huge...and then it flattened in 2000...then that would still validate the effect of the Millenium.
Well, the numbers from 99 & 2000 are really kind of hard to discern, because of the recent opening of AK. Attendance at MK,Epcot & DHS were all off for 99, but alot of that could be attributed to the first full year of operation for AK which had an estimated 8.6 million visitors. 2000 appears like it was almost flat at least for MK, Epcot and DHS which saw only a 1-2% increase across those 3, but a -4.65% decrease for AK.



Remember too the numbers are kinda weird now because of the complete bloating from 2004-2008. And I submit that funny money is almost the sole reason for that.....lots of travel when anybody can get a Discover with a 30,000 dollar limit.
Wow, that's the first time I've heard that one... Interesting... I'll have to look into it...



And 2000 was....if memory serves....an astounding profit year for the time....so perhaps crowd levels remained the same....but they threw down alot of scratch. And we all know that that is the ONLY thing that really matters in Team Disney
Yeah, I seem to remember that. I would attribute it to the uniqueness and novelty of the 2000 merchandise. I think a lot of people wanted something that said "2000" on it.

Sending you a link to my spreadsheet with compiled attendance for the last 10 years. I think you'll find it interesting, if not debatable. ;)

[Ian]

To even further your point, I think the average guest, not the Disney diehards like ourselves, have no clue. They don't even know what A mode or B mode is. They know its a cool rollercoaster and at one point it stops and goes backwards, whips them around and they think they saw a giant yeti at the end, and they ABOSLUTELY love it. I bet you 99% of guests could ride it in A mode and B mode and NEVER NEVER NEVER know the differenceI agree totally. I actually made that same point earlier in this thread.

[2Epcot]

I have to say, I need to stop being so busy and make more time for Intercot again. It has been interesting reading, about the Yeti. I'm glad I got a chance to see it working when I was there the last time, since if or when it may be working seems to be a mystery.



Not that they'll do it, but I'd bet that if they put out a donation box with a sign that said "help repair the Yeti", that they could collect the cost of repair from ride-goers within a year.

Just the thought of seeing a collection box in front of one of the rides makes me laugh. I don't know how many people would be willing to drop a few more buck in after spending hundreds to get into the park.

I wonder how long petition signers would last in front of the attraction at the park.



It's about quality....the quality of the ride and the product that Disney sells to us....

It should be fixed....because it SHOULD be embarrassing to Disney.

I agree, Disney should be embarassed that a signature element of the ride is not working. To me this would be the same as if the giant boulder from the Indiana Jones Adventure at Disneyland didn't start rolling toward the car at the end ... Or the giant dinasour that attacks just before the drop on Jurrasic Park at Universal wasn't there to make you look up just before the fall.


It's not that $2.1 million is too much money. It's that it's too much money to spend for, basically, zero return.

My opinion is (and continues to be) that the broken yeti has exactly a 0% impact on ... well ... anything! No one cares, for the most part.

Has anyone here said, "Well the yeti is broken. I'm not riding Everest!" Or, more importantly, I'm not going to Disney World!

No. Of course not. So you can't spend $2.1 million with no upside. There has to be an ROE for the spend or it's not a good decision.


Disney could always promote the "new and improved" Expedition Everest after the repair is done ... Throw in is some mist or fog, new lights, to satisfy the legal requirements of being new. That should increase attendance enough to make up for the costs. (No park has ever done that before.)



1. Disney cares very much that it's highly touted animatronic icon is not working. Joe Rhode is all over it.

2. The $2.1 million repair cost figure quoted in this thread is not correct. It is substantially more.

3. The yeti will be fixed, but no one wants to shut down the attraction during the extensive repair period. So the Imagineers must come up with some sort of screen or illusion that (first) insures the safety of riders passing through the construction area and (second) hides the construction work and (third) maintains the ride theme.

I hope the Yeti will be fixed. I don't mind paying the high prices as long as I feel like I'm getting the best entertainment.

[lockedoutlogic]

Huh. I typically can find some common ground with you on most of what you say and I think that, by and large, we agree on more than we disagree on.

But I think you're completely wrong with this one. I, in fact, think it's the exact opposite. I bet if you had access to the numbers you would see an almost immediate spike in theme park attendance as soon as a new, big budget, highly publicized attraction is open.

I'm not talking about the Laugh Floor or minor additions like that. But your Everests, your Soarins, your Toy Story Manias ... I think they add immediately and impactfully to the bottom line from day one.

Do I have stats to back that up? No. Disney doesn't release numbers with enough granularity to prove that out. But to me it's common sense. Why? Why else would they spend hundreds of millions of dollars opening new blockbuster attractions?

I've seen Mufasa lurking around the boards lately ... I would love to hear him chime in on this topic ...


I would think that there would be a spike.....

But i strongly believe it isn't sustained due to any ride or attraction.

Of course you get a bump...remember that at least 50% of WDW's travelers at anytime are repeat guests (fact)....so they would naturally gravitate to what's on the commercials and brochures.....
but a few months (say....six) down the line....the attendance is back to be a mechanism of the demand for each park as a whole.....kinda why they always rank the same way in numbers....don't you think.

The overall yearly volume has NOTHING to do with a ride. It makes no sense that a significant statistical sample of 50 million visitors are going there for one thing....
the numbers are too great.....and disney world still costs too much for this kinda casual consumption (I REALLY don't think some of you are giving this point enough thought.....)

I would be interested in Mufasa's take as well....

And the last thing: ask yourself what a new attraction is to the management?

in 1958......it clearly was mostly to generate fun and draw....not for sheer bottomline.

I would strongly suggest that those who really hold the strings to the puppet now view new "mountains" as nothing but necessary evil.

They don't directly yield much to revenue...which is the primary goal.....but they are still an entertainment enterprise...and know that they still have to put out the perception.

Do i think they would ride what they have into the ground if it wouldn't eventually lead to decline?
Absolutely.....nobody named "Disney" in charge anymore....and the money is the CEO now....has been for years

[Mufasa]

My take on this thread? It seems to follow a trend of going off-topic and looks to rehash a lot of the same statements as quite a number of the other threads around here lately.

So as I read through the messages in this particular thread it pains me to see a lot of misinformation and misconceptions stated here as indisputable fact but who am I to question the "experts" and what they might have gathered because after all, they've done their extensive research on the Internet or are drawing from their own vast personal knowledge.

After all, what makes me even "qualified" to offer my opinion?

Now, I've taken and passed my NCEES PE exams and am board licensed as the majority of my fellow engineering colleagues at WDI are and though I personally might pursue as much CE work to keep up to date and further my own knowledge I suppose none of that counts towards any "real" engineering foundation but hey, if you needed me to pick out some paint colors or plant a few trees and shrubs I'm just the person.

If you really want to be impressed then you should see what I can do with a spreadsheet! Now, I don't mean to brag but when I get really fancy, I might just throw in a pie chart (and that's when I can really shine and show off all those skills I've developed at picking pretty colors).

And I can't overlook perhaps my greatest accomplishment and what really has won me favors from management- the awesomeness of how I handle a rubber stamp without smearing any of the ink.

Of course, I only got to that position when I convinced management how we could see a 50% reduction in cost by changing our stamps from saying "DONE" to simply "OK" (because those extra 2 letters are expensive!)

Now that I think about it, if this all doesn't work out I might just work out as an associate at a home improvement store.

Truth is- it is probably better that I focus the majority of my time and efforts back to my graduate school studies and leave the Monday morning quarterback commentary to someone else so I just might have some chance to call myself a "real" engineer some day.

On the topic of the Yeti itself- it deeply saddens me to know that guests are not experiencing our originally intended vision and hope it gets corrected quickly because it is important to the quality of the storytelling and guests should expect no less.

I never for a moment believe or assume that the majority our guests probably don't notice these things so why does it matter? Because it personally matters to me- it comes down to pride so to know that something is broken and is just being presented that way is not a good feeling.

[big blue and hairy]

Actually it seems to me that the only thing everyone here agrees on is that they would like to see the Yeti fixed. The thing that seems to me to be the subject of debate is if this is the best time to do since the economy is not cooperating.

I have a very specific question for Mufasa that I don't even know if you can answer. Would the money to fix the big hairy guy come from a different budget, or is what a lot of folks here are afraid of the case, the money spent to fix him could affect employees and other projects.

:sulley:

[DizneyRox]

Let me be the first to say, the paint job and landscaping is top notch over at EE (except for the unpainted back which is of course another instance of bad show but I'll let that slide). :thumbsup:

It almost looks real!

[big blue and hairy]

Seriously, I see no purpose in belittling all the Imagineers. Of course there are things in the parks we like and don't like, but the Imagineers do an amazing job. I'm sure there things the Imagineers disagree on. WDW is still so far ahead of any non-Disney park it's ridiculous.

I don't think I did, but Mufasa, if I said anything that sounded like a put down of Imagineers, I didn't intend it that way and I apologize.


:sulley: