Tables in Wonderland (formerly.. Disney Dining Experience)

[Woozles Gram]

:ack: Hi all.....it has been a while since I have posted. Well..DH and I have just returned after spending nine weeks in Florida and dodging the N.Y. cold (or most of it anyway). This post is about the above mentioned. Don't know how many of you are aware of this, we certainly were NOT. I have an annual pass to "The World" and therefore, was entitled to purchase the Tables In Wonderland card for $60 (available without annual for $85). What I did not know, is that because we use this card at any and all of the hotel restaurants and buffets, we were automatically being charged an 18% gratuity that is normally only charged for parties of 6 or more. When we became aware of this................DH and I were perplexed and realized that the 20% discount you receive for buying this card turns out to be in reality 2% after the forced gratuity. While I can understand that perhaps if you use this card at any of the High End restaurants 2% may amount to something......our budget pretty much only allows us to eat at places like Trails End and occasionally The Crystal Palace. We went to guest relations to inquire about this and learned that.....the powers that be, are assuming that if you receive the 20% discount on your bill, you would not leave the appropriate tip for the waiter/waitress.I DH & myself, felt resentful of the fact that someone else was making the decision for us. NOW, first of all, a gratuity is if you look it up, a sum left for a service usually money......BUT what law requires you to leave a tip?? Let me pause here and say that DH and I would NEVER walk out and NOT leave a tip. BUT, why would I be required to leave 18% at a buffet...where you get EVERYTHING except your drink yourself....and the same 18% is charged at a full service restaurant where everything is done and brought to you by the staff?? Am I making any sense here?? The very polite and helpful guy at guest relations in Downtown Disney fully and quietly agreed with our opinion especially when we told him the restuarants we could afford to go to........we figured out that our BIG (not) savings for our meal at Trails End the previous night, was $1.56 after the forced 18%. NOW, I ask you...we would have to eat there more than 35 times for this card to pay for itself....nevermind save any $$. Bottom line was he refunded out $$ apologized and was gracious enough to give us a $50 disney gift card to eat out once again. We walked away happy.....:clappy:just wanted to post this warning to anyone else who may be thinking about buying this card. Unless you are going to go to high end eateries on the property and figure out that 2% savings on your bill is a good thing, then it is not worth it!! :down: Thanks for listening!! Interested in hearing some feedback on this

[KylesMom]

we were automatically being charged an 18% gratuity

They actually enacted this beginning January 1, 2008 - so it's been almost 16 months since the policy was enacted.

While I totally agree that 18% automatic gratuity on a small party is :(, I dislike even more the new price of the card - which is now $75 for A/P holders and $100 for Florida Residents. Since we were tipping the 20% straight to the server, this is an extra 2% in our pockets - which we will add back in for exemplary service performed.

The DDE card is no longer for the casual user - you really need to go to a few of the higher priced restaurants over a period of time for it to pay for itself. Last year we saved $265 with it, and I expect to save about the same this year on the same card. We don't eat at signature dining locations, but we will save a nice chunk on places like Ohana, Chef Mickey's, Mama Melrose and Spirit of Aloha. Sorry it didn't pay off for you this trip!

[Woozles Gram]

We bought it this year at the end of Feb, and paid $60 for it because of my annual pass never heard anything about an increase :(

[KylesMom]

That recent discussion is here:

DDE Price Increase (http://www.intercot.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=151275)

My error - for A/P holders the new price is $75, not $80 . . .

[VWL Mom]

I'm sorry it didn't work out for you but glad to hear Guest Relations took care of it.

We saved almost $200 on our last trip and will be taking 2 more trips on the same card and expect the savings to be about the same. Since we normally tip 20% the card covers the cost of the tips.

[Dsnygirl]

Here is my personal take on it, as we are planning on buying it before we go in the fall.

The main reason we are getting it is that the DDP, although it saved us some money, did not offer my children the flexibility we needed -- my DD7 got very bored w/ the children's meals and my DD10 didn't always want an adult meal -- and most of the restaurants we frequent for dinner or breakfast are a part of TIW. So, it's better to get a discount on what we want than pay ahead for what we (or they) don't.

With TIW, we can even just get two adult meals and split them 4 ways (like the fried chicken at 50's Prime Time -- delicious and HUGE!! :thumbsup:) without worrying that we aren't using a meal credit, which is nice, as well.

While I totally agree with you -- wholeheartedly, I might add -- that it is very poor on Disney's part to force a gratuity, for us it isn't too big a deal b/c we typically leave b/w 18-20%, anyway, if the service is good, and we've really only had good service at Disney. (and for that I am grateful, I know not everyone has.) The part that I wholeheartedly agree with is the buffet meals -- we were astounded when we were on the DDP and the "suggested gratuity" at places like Boma would come back at 18-20%, for servers that basically did nothing more than pick up plates and bring water. So, we tended to leave 15%, unless the server was never there or did something over-the-top to help. Then it would be less, or more, depending.

So, while I agree that the whole tipping thing is an issue, esp. with the buffets, I think there are some benefits for certain families/parties that run beyond just the 20% discount. I did a list of the places we'd like to eat in the fall, and mind you, a few of them are pricey places we just love to return to, but not all... and we are also going to do the Luau, so the 20% is huge for us there. But the way my numbers worked, we will save about $150-$200 when compared to the DDP, b/c we won't eat as many counter service meals, my kids will be able to get what they want and/or share with us and our alcohol is discounted, as well.

Sorry for the long post, just hoping the reasons we're still deciding to go with it might help others who are in a quandry about it. (and I just tend to be wordy... :D)

[Maleficent's Dad]

While I am unhappy about the policy - a "forced gratuity," the card still gives us a tremendous savings. If service isn't up to standards, you can always speak to the manager and reduce your tip to your liking.

You have to keep in mind that your "savings" also includes the gratuity that you did not have to leave, so you did save more than the aforementioned $1.56. Sure, you may have tipped more than you wanted, but you didn't have to actually leave extra money.

We just figure that the TIW card is now a card that we pay for up front, and it covers all of our tips.

[PetefromRI]

I don't see the problem,other than them forcing the tip on you.We leave 20% anytime we eat out.The wait person would have to really mess up for us to leave less and even then it would be 10% but that never has happened to us.So you really do get 20% off unless you just don't normally tip in which case you have no business in a TS restaurant.With the recession I've noticed alot more people not feeling as if they should tip and the poor waitperson or in my wifes case,hairdresser,ends up getting the short end of the stick.I agree with KylesMom though about the price increase.I do realize that the OP said that they always leave a tip so I'm not directing any anger toward you,just some of the cheap people out there that don't seem to understand how tips are actually part of peoples salaries.

[faline]

Generally, I look at the card as getting the tip for free. I'd tip at least that much anyway so I save the cost of the tip plus an additional 2% most times!

[Seasonscraps]

Generally, I look at the card as getting the tip for free. I'd tip at least that much anyway so I save the cost of the tip plus an additional 2% most times!


This is how I look at it as well.

[kakn7294]

Generally, I look at the card as getting the tip for free. I'd tip at least that much anyway so I save the cost of the tip plus an additional 2% most times!I feel that way too. It kills me to think of what a tip amounts to based on Disney food prices so if they already add it in for me, I don't have to debate with myself on how much to leave (because I'll admit it - I'm cheap!!!) I've never been one to think that servers at a buffet generally deserve as large of a tip as those at a full TS restaurant but some of the servers that we've encountered at WDW buffets work as hard or harder than some servers at our local full service establishments. I feel that most of them deserve a really nice tip and I don't feel bad about giving them one. Be sure to always check your bill though - there was no tip added to our bill last year at Maya Grill at CSR when we used the card. Had I not been looking for it, our poor waitress wouldn't have gotten anything from us. I always check now.

[DizneyRox]

The value of the program really hasn't changed... The tip should be left regardless, assuming that you get adequate service.

Me, I don't like a forced gratuity either, and because of that, I'm seriously considering if the TiW card is "worth" it. I like to be able to dangle the tip in front of the waiter/waitress. It keeps them on their toes. Knowing they will get $x.xx for a tip seems to be counter to the whole service industry.

[Disney_Barbie]

I don't know how disney dining staff is opperated or exactly what the specifics of the servers @ the Buffets is.
However, I do know for many years I was a server in a resturant that was mainly table service but offered an all-you-care-to-eat buffett one night a week along with the full menu. In this partiuclar case (as I say, things might be different when an eaterie is buffett only) the servers had to work just as hard for buffett guests as menu guests. Granted we're not delivering your actual dinner, but in a menu dinner we typically have 1 plate to remove from your table, where as even an average buffett guest can go thru 3-4 plates (it was a mid-scale eaterie and we did not let the dirty plates sit in front of you long, just as disney does not we had to clear them away ASAP), then there is drinks, extra napkins, ketchup, butter, extra sauce, ect. Along with that, we had to help the kitchen staff make sure the buffet was constantly tidy & fully-stocked. You'd be SHOCKED how much an buffet-server has to do.

If you're eating at a nice buffett (not golden corral, or the pizza hut buffett) 20% should still be a standard tip.

I think the enforced 20% is a GREAT thing. Infact I think that Disney & for that matter ALL resort or vacation areas should automatically tack on 20% since that is not necessarily the standard in other parts of the world, but IS the standard in the US. If you can not afford the 20% on top of your bill, you should not be eating out.

[jcvalenti]

As a former waiter (and current TIW cardholder) I have no problem with the automatic gratuity ... especially in a place with WDW with so many foreign visitors who just don't understand the cultural basis for tipping. Nothing worse than working your butt off during peak busy time and finding no tip just because someone didn't remember or know to leave one. As for tipping at buffet restaurants, those tips are generally split between servers, chefs and runners - so while the "server" may not have earned the 18%, the group as a whole certainly did.

As for the relative value of the card, for me it's undeniable - whether $60 or 75. We travel with a party of 5, and usually drink cocktails or 1 or 2 bottles of wine with dinner. I always leave a tip, at least 15% and sometimes up to 25% (so in some cases, the card saves me money).

We eat at least once per day at a nice TS restaurant when in the parks. If you figure an average bill for our table is $150 (and that's light), thats $30 discount per meal. By the time my current card expires, we'd have used the card over about 25 days, for a savings of at least $750 (2 week+ trips and a 4 day weekend at Food & Wine). And that doesn't even take into account how much we've saved in parking charges with the free valet feature.

So all in all, it's been a great deal for our family. My biggest fear, though, is that they are moving away from programs like this and moving exclusively to the Dining Plan or pre-paid options, which is going to disincentive service and good cuisine and create a cafeteria/feed-line mentality that's going to shred the quality of Disney Dining.

[sillyolbear]

Sorry the card didn't work out for you, but glad a cast member got you your refund and a nice bonus on top of it.

Like DVC or an annual pass, this particular promotion is a benefit for some and not for others.