Recession? Not in WDW! But the Crowd BEHAVIOR is What was So Bad [Archive]

Maleficent's Dad

02-23-2009, 06:57 PM

This isn't a trip report, but rather a brief review of the parks last week during President's Week.

We go during the school's February break every year - and while the weekend (Sat - Mon) of President's Day is usually crowded, it's never been this crowded and this insane for the entire week.

DHS is a park that does not handle crowds well. The insanity at the rope drop that we experienced (three times last week) was like nothing I've ever seen before. Grown adults fighting (with elbows and shoves) to be amongst the first to TSM. FP's for TSM gone by 10:15 AM daily.

EPCOT with the same craziness heading to Soarin'. Waits of over 100 minutes early in the day and never subsiding. Waits of over 60 minutes consistently for Maelstrom. We did attend the Friday night EMH at EPCOT. Let me put it this way - never again. :shake:

The MK - let's leave it at this - I'm glad we arrived early (even hit the CP for Pooh's b'fast one day) and left after lunch. That park just gets nuts.

The one day at the AK was a good one, but just as crowded as the others. EE had a delayed opening, and it made things "interesting," to say the least.

I've not witnessed WDW with such large crowds who were behaving so badly before... And before you comment on that, know this - I go only when schools are out. I have been there Christmas week (several times), as well as Easter, President's Week, and July 4th.

Worst we saw was DHS. People pushing past CM's, ignoring their directions, cutting under ropes, around designated areas, and hopping over queues. People were just so incredibly rude, disrepectful, and downright embarrassing. Folks, I'm not talking about teens - I'm talking about parents with children. :cry: Very sad.

Last week was bar-none, the worst I've experienced. And it wasn't due to the crowd size, it was due to the crowd's behavior.

Anyone else notice a decline in the civility of people on "vacation?"

SBETigg

02-23-2009, 07:19 PM

That's so hard to deal with. I hate it when people behave badly. You're on vacation, so you want to tune it out, but sometimes it really does just get to you. Every vacation, I seem to run into a few people behaving badly, but not enough to make a big impact on the trip. This one sounds beyond the norm for you. Sorry for the added stress.

mouseketeer mom

02-23-2009, 07:28 PM

Wow. That sounds awful!! I can only begin to imagine how you felt as you describe your week. We leave next Friday...is this what we're in for??

Mousefever

02-23-2009, 07:30 PM

I'm a little scared about what it will be like during our spring break trip! I can deal with bad behavior and crowds up to a certain point. If I get overwhelmed I'm glad we can go back to our room very easily.

Amy

Ian

02-23-2009, 07:33 PM

Sounds like our December experience at DHS. The mad rush to get to TSM is nuts.

I gotta be honest, though. I partially blame Disney for this.

First and foremost, they're horrendous at enforcing any sort of order on crowds anymore. In fact, they almost seem to revel in the chaos they cause sometimes. They could very easily prevent people from running to attractions (I've seen them do it successfully dozens of times), but they just don't seem to care anymore.

Secondly, by being so darn cheap with adding new attractions and keeping the parks up they've created a situation where each park basically has one or two really worthwhile attractions and those are the ones to which all the people flock.

This isn't intended to excuse bad behavior by any means. But I'd be willing to bet that people have, in general, behaved like this for centuries when there is no order enforced (the term "mob mentality" wasn't coined yesterday). I'm not sure if it's the people who've changed or if it's Disney's attitude towards crowd control.

Either way it's frustrating and is yet another item to detract from your enjoyment of a WDW vacation.

CaptSmee

02-23-2009, 07:38 PM

DHS is a park that does not handle crowds well. The insanity at the rope drop that we experienced (three times last week) was like nothing I've ever seen before. Grown adults fighting (with elbows and shoves) to be amongst the first to TSM. FP's for TSM gone by 10:15 AM daily.

Unfortunately I think this pretty much is a daily occurance at DHS. It was the same way in Jan as well. Everyone takes off for TSM and gets in a giant line for FP's and are pretty much gone by 10-10:30. I was amazed...

Boost

02-23-2009, 07:47 PM

Sorry to say that we experienced a bit of the same, although not in the parks...for us, it was the parking lot at Downtown Disney. After a nice day on Saturday of park hopping, we hit DD on the way home (we are Floridians). We were waiting for someone to pull out of a parking space in Lot 2 at Downtown Disney. After they backed out of the spot, we drove into the spot. After about 1-2 minutes (literally), we heard a woman LAYING ON THE HORN for thirty seconds at a time for at least another two minutes. We were looking around to see what was going on and then we saw the woman back up to where we were (she was about five cars away on the wrong side of the parking spaces); then the woman began SCREAMING in our direction . My wife was giving our daughter her baby bottle in the back of our vehicle before we were getting out, but we both got out because we thought that there was some sort of medical emergency that the woman was having. As we got out of the car, she was freaking out because, she "had been waiting for the parking spot for over 30 minutes". I told her that she was nowhere around when I found the spot and we were the ones waiting for it. She kept yelling and we got back in the car. We did eventually move because we thought that she was going to vandalize our vehicle, so we found a closer spot in Lot 1. At any rate, YES, we did witness bad behavior this past weekend....

mickeys_princess_mom

02-23-2009, 09:38 PM

I hate to hear this thread. A friend at school finally went this week (he's a coach, and it's the only time of year he could go), and it's a shame these were the conditions for his family's first trip. I did warn him that this would be a crowded time, but sounds like it was just insane.

JPL

02-23-2009, 09:50 PM

Sounds like our December experience at DHS. The mad rush to get to TSM is nuts.

I gotta be honest, though. I partially blame Disney for this.

First and foremost, they're horrendous at enforcing any sort of order on crowds anymore. In fact, they almost seem to revel in the chaos they cause sometimes. They could very easily prevent people from running to attractions (I've seen them do it successfully dozens of times), but they just don't seem to care anymore.

I agree I noticed back in June and to make matter worse the CMs at VOTLM were cheering guests on encouraging them to run to TSM. The only way this is going to stop is when someone gets seriously injured and I hate to say it sues them and wins a boat load of cash.

Crowd control at WDW was non-existent in December and I'm sure it's getting worse with the cutbacks taking place. Ian is right they really just don't care any more :mad:

tink179

02-23-2009, 10:16 PM

I agree with the crowds being rude! We were there in January and people were awful! There was a guy behind me videotaping the fireworks at MK and was complaining about a little boy having a balloon in the air during the fireworks! :confused: Uh, the fireworks are way above the balloon! There was rude people talking during shows and rude guests at the dinners as well!Our trip was still quite enjoyable, but geez you would think people on vacation would relax and think about others around them! We can only wish that would become more the norm!

Mousefan29

02-23-2009, 10:47 PM

We spent 3 weeks there in December and experienced the best crowds and the worst. Let me explain...

Christmas Eve at MK -- I expected the worst, and was surprised that we had a great time! Even though there were crowds, everyone was pleasant and cheerful. The bathrooms were clean and we didn't wait for food. Sure, there were long waits on the major attractions, but we did things like shows, parades, and trains -- and Carousel of Progress. The only madness was leaving at the end of the night, but, still people were jovial and polite.

New Year's Eve at Epcot -- I expected a the worst and got it! We were there early and prepared to stay until evening, but had to leave by 2:15 pm. The crowds were so thick and the people were so rude! You could hardly walk through World Showcase, and, TWICE, we had people try to jump over our strollers, lose their balance and land on our kids! No apologies, no humility. We'll never go back there for New Years!

I can't explain the difference, both were holiday eves, but we definitely noticed a difference in people's behavior!

Boost

02-24-2009, 05:58 AM

Three things:

1. What is TSM?

2. Guy grumbling about little boy with balloon - too sad to even comment...

3. We have also had people jump/stretch their legs over our kids' stroller....my wife and I have NO problem putting them in their place when it happens.

True that the parks are for everyone, but sometimes, some adults need to be reminded that some extra courtesy needs to be extended to children. Just my opinion.

cgriff

02-24-2009, 06:36 AM

Also partially to blame would be those who blog or post on message boards about the absolute necessity to be at DHS at rope-drop for the purpose of rushing to TSM... If enough people recommend to park-goers a strategy meant to overwhelm an attraction, it should not surprise when the attraction becomes overwhelmed.

TSM is a superb piece of theme park entertainment, worthy of so many people wanting anxiously to experience it. It's great, positive stuff for the long-languishing Studios. But WDW does need to address the 'running of the bulls' situation that has developed around it. I think an easy fix is to use the built-in crowd control that already exists at the park --the turnstiles! --in a smarter way. When guests swipe their park admission media at the turnstile to enter the park, why not present them with the option of accepting/printing-out a TSM fast-pass right there? Replace the looney fingerprint scan with this. People will have their return time for the ride before they even enter the gate.

The only "runners" at that point would be the peeps who want to try to be first to the standby line at the attraction. The easy fix at that point is to have the Hollywood streets freshly hosed down right before opening! :thumbsup: (Kidding!)

cgriff

02-24-2009, 06:39 AM

Hi Boost, TSM = Toy Story Mania

Goofster

02-24-2009, 06:53 AM

Wow...that's insane. We went the first week of february and didn't get our TSM fast pass until closer to noon! :cool:

grumpyguy

02-24-2009, 07:14 AM

wow,crazy stuff...i think i'll search for a positive post now:(

Marker

02-24-2009, 07:54 AM

Anyone else notice a decline in the civility of people on "vacation?"

Yes, I noticed, but I don't think it really has anything to do with being on vacation, or being at WDW. I think it happens anywhere.

I gotta be honest, though. I partially blame Disney for this.

Perhaps Disney could do more to prevent this bad behavior, but should they have to. Regardless of what Disney could do, the bad behavior is coming from the people, it is a choice they are making. Very likely, no matter what deterrent Disney were to put in place, they'd likely find a way around it. Also, those deterrents would no doubt have a price tag. We all know that we are in an economic climate of cut backs, not enhancements. Regardless of what deterrents are in place, people need to be held accountable for their own behavior rather than deflecting the blame somewhere else. But that's just my opinion.

...but they just don't seem to care anymore.

Maybe I'm naive but I don't believe that they just don't care. I think the vast majority, from CM on up, do indeed care. Unfortunately, to a larger extent than in recent history their hands are tied. They are restricted by legal/liability issues. They are restricted by budget issues and economic realities. If they truly did not care, then WDW would have long ago lost its place in our hearts, and its reputation for quality. But that's just my opinion.

jeffbdw

02-24-2009, 08:20 AM

Seems like if they used the turnstiles to get people into the park, instead of getting them inside and then holding them like cattle at the rope, it would be more tame. We were ther first week in Feb and it was a dead week and it was still nuts at rope drop. When they pile everybody up at the rope and then drop it, they create the mob to have the mob mentallity. Turnstiles would maybe slow averything down a bit. But then you'd have a huge pile outside the park waiting to get in. Who knows?

divinedi

02-24-2009, 08:32 AM

My daughter and I were there Jan. 27-Feb 3 and we also noticed the increase in rude behaviour:(. I know everyone is stressed out with the economy being what it is:ill:, and wanting the most for what few dollars we have left to spend on vacations, but everyone is in the same situation, we all paid the same for our Disney vacation, and it really only takes a little common courtesy. We did see a number of polite people, but it seems there is an increasing number of rude people, and yes everywhere, not just Disneyworld, but for some reason it bothers us more because this is supposed to be our 'happy' place:cloud9:. It's just sad, why make a bad situation (economy) worse by acting like jerks, it's just as easy to be nice as it is to be rude, and it goes such a long way to start a ripple effect of 'pay it forward' politness!

JPL

02-24-2009, 08:36 AM

Perhaps Disney could do more to prevent this bad behavior, but should they have to.

Yes Disney should be responsible for doing something. Crowd control comes with the territory whether they like it or not. Unless of course the want the news story with the Headline " Boy Trambled to Death attempting to ride Toy Story Attraction at WDW" Because the longer the wait to control this the worse it will get and the fictional headline above will become a reality.

mouseketeer mom

02-24-2009, 08:47 AM

Yes Disney should be responsible for doing something. Crowd control comes with the territory whether they like it or not. Unless of course the want the news story with the Headline " Boy Trambled to Death attempting to ride Toy Story Attraction at WDW" Because the longer the wait to control this the worse it will get and the fictional headline above will become a reality.

Jeff, I totally agree with this. In August we were at the front of the line for rope drop at DHS, and of course planned on heading to TSM right away. I just remember the sea of people behind us charging forward at the drop. I yelled to my husband to just take the kids, just take the kids, because suddenly all was so very out of control. He took them aside and I made my way to the new attraction and they met me there after I got the fastpasses. Nothing about this experience felt good, positive or controlled. As I parent I just immediately wanted my kids, especially my little one who couldn't hold his own, OUT OF THE WAY. There was no mercy from anyone, it was every man for himself. We decided then and there we wouldn't do that again.

cgriff

02-24-2009, 08:55 AM

Yes Disney should be responsible for doing something.

Basic, logistical crowd management, yes. But Disney can't make guests not be rude, which is what I believe the point Marker was making.

cgriff

02-24-2009, 08:57 AM

There was no mercy from anyone, it was every man for himself. We decided then and there we wouldn't do that again.

Well it *is* called Toy Story MANIA!

LarryBoy

02-24-2009, 08:57 AM

Maybe they should just eliminate the rope drop. Especially at DHS. It's a relatively small park anyway. They could still start letting people in at a time, 20-30 minutes, before the official opening, but just have the whole park open to explore. The attractions could still be closed till the official opening, but people could just queue up outside whichever attraction it is they want to ride first, or even line up to wait on a FP. This would eliminate the mass rush of people. The running of the tourists, if you will.

johnO

02-24-2009, 08:58 AM

We experienced President's Day week about 10 years ago. We had no idea how crowded it was during that week. We had gone to WDW in early Feb 1998 and the crowds were minimal. The following year we went during President's day week and were shocked. I was speechless and could not believe how crowded it was. I finally asked a CM what the deal was and she explained how busy it was during that week every year and that it was considered 'peak season' during that week.

WDW is NOT the same when the crowds are this bad because people get frustrated and then they get rude.

Since then we've steered clear of peak season and visit strictly during the value seasons, early Feb. or Late Sept. We have to take the kids out of school but its well worth it.
It really dampens the experience of WDW when the crowds are so overwhelming.

Marker posted: Maybe I'm naive but I don't believe that they just don't care. I think the vast majority; from CM on up, do indeed care. Unfortunately, to a larger extent than in recent history their hands are tied. They are restricted by legal/liability issues. They are restricted by budget issues and economic realities. If they truly did not care, then WDW would have long ago lost its place in our hearts, and its reputation for quality. But that's just my opinion.

***Warning*** the following statements are *IMHO* so forgive me while I'm on my
:soapbox:...

I think the liability aspect is crucial. In today’s society everything is someone else’s fault. Our society has virtually removed personal accountability whether it's paying your mortgage (see the mortgage bailout ), or behaving in a civil manner on vacation. Bad behavior is glorified in our decaying society.

How many kids wear T-shirts with Einstein on it? None. They're all wearing shirts with Scarface, the Sopranos or 50-Cent. Criminality is glorified in our country. We live in a world where BAD is good. It's like ancient Rome for crying out loud. If you go to the President's YouTube channel on the internet you'll find that the most watched video is him dancing on Ellen DeGeneres' show. Of all the videos the one society cares about most is the one of him dancing. It's unbelievable to me.

We live in a country where everyone is sue happy. And with a complicit judiciary, individuals and businesses alike are afraid to protect their very own rights or privileges. A man in Arizona was just sued by illegal aliens from Mexico because he detained them when they entered onto HIS PROPERTY...ILLEGALLY!! Not only did this bogus lawsuit make it into the court but the court ruled against him and he has to pay damages to the ILLEGAL ALIENS!!! To the tune of $80,000!!!

Now consider how many people have sued WDW because they were ejected from a park for their behavior? How many times have they fought this fight? Probably until they decide "It's just not worth it anymore." Let people act how they will.

Personal responsibility and accountability have vanished from our society. It’s no wonder that people act like psychopaths towards others and get away with it.

I know..I'm sorry....I'm done....:cool:

cgriff

02-24-2009, 09:03 AM

JohnO is absolutely right. It's not a soapbox, and therefore does not need a disclaimer, if what you speak is the truth!

Ian

02-24-2009, 10:00 AM

Perhaps Disney could do more to prevent this bad behavior, but should they have to. Regardless of what Disney could do, the bad behavior is coming from the people, it is a choice they are making. Very likely, no matter what deterrent Disney were to put in place, they'd likely find a way around it. Also, those deterrents would no doubt have a price tag. We all know that we are in an economic climate of cut backs, not enhancements. Regardless of what deterrents are in place, people need to be held accountable for their own behavior rather than deflecting the blame somewhere else. But that's just my opinion.I don't disagree and I'm not deflecting blame ... I'm merely saying that I think Disney shares responsibility with the guests behaving badly. I'm also saying that people have been behaving badly in crowd situations for decades. I don't believe it's a new thing and I don't believe it's indicitive of the downfall of society, like some people seem to.

And listen ... here's the deal. I've been at Epcot in the past and they handled rope drop for Soarin' totally differently from how they handle at DHS.

They basically keep the rope up between two cast members and force all the guests to walk behind the rope all the way up to the ride entrance.

I don't see how that would cost any more and it's certainly more effective.

joelkfla

02-24-2009, 10:06 AM

This was way before my time as a CM, but ..

Wasn't there a time when CM's with ropes between them would form a moving barricade, and walk guests from the entrance to the hottest attractions? And anyone seen attempting an "end run" around the barricade would be severely scolded and sent back!

I guess we don't have enough CM's on the street to do that anymore. Or maybe people are just too rude these days to do it safely anymore.

JPL

02-24-2009, 10:14 AM

And listen ... here's the deal. I've been at Epcot in the past and they handled rope drop for Soarin' totally differently from how they handle at DHS.

They basically keep the rope up between two cast members and force all the guests to walk behind the rope all the way up to the ride entrance.

They do the same at AK going to Evereest and the Safari you can only go as fast as the CMs walk

doodleboy

02-24-2009, 10:20 AM

Sounds like another day at Wal-Mart to me. I'm trying to make light of what we've turned into as a nation.

I do find it funny that people are pointing out that the reason that WDW is not controlling crowds is an economic one. If there are crowds to be controlled, does that not mean that somewhere a bunch of $$$ was collected for that crowd to be there? People have been using this as an excuse for everything WDW does wrong for years, even when the economy was booming and you were lucky to get a AAA discount on a room. If by economic reasons, you mean greed, you would be correct. "Let's see how little we can offer the general public for their vacation money, and see how long it takes them to realize they are being taken?"

I am going to tick some people off with this statement, but I have also noticed a general trend toward this bad behavior when the crowd is there during and incentive period. Buy 4, get 3 is going to bring out some people that don't know how to behave in a crowd. Have you ever noticed that around holiday time in the mall you are presented with a bunch of people that only go out to shop that one time per year? They have little or no etiquette in the parking lot, while waitning in line at the checkout, or anyplace else there is a crowd at the mall.

WDW needs to take some responsibily for how people behave in their parks. Most of us have paid good money for the experience, and some level of order should be enforced while you are there.

BTW -- DL is much worse in this area IMHO. On our last trip there there was only one CM for 2-3 characters. They did not establish a line for autographs, but let the crowd huddle around each character. If you were not aggressive your child would never get an autograph or photo. I saw parents pushing their children into the character's direction to get the next spot, whil e those with manners waited and never got the chance. When I asked the CM that was just standing there why she wasn't attempting to establish a line, she said that's just how they do things.

If you want to do something about this situation, send your complaints into WDW via the mail or an email to [email protected]. I do this after every trip, and not just negative feedback but also the positive. I try to include dates and CMs names that I may have had a positve or negative experience with while visiting. We spend so much time and energy venting to each other here, why not let WDW know what is going on? All of you that have registered complaints on this thread should put together and email and send it in. And mention the things you liked too, so that WDW keeps doing them.

wire0monkey

02-24-2009, 10:24 AM

Please... it's not that hard to control a crowd at a rope drop at a Disney park. Rather than dropping the rope and letting the crowd run for it, you have some cast members hold the rope and walk the crowd back at a brisk clip to the attraction.

If it they're looking at trampling situations, they need to do that. They used to do it. There's no reason they can't do it again.

And you bet your booty, that if someone gets trampled, a clever plaintiff's attorney is going to hold Disney accountable for its rope drop procedure or lack there of.

MississippiDisneyFreak

02-24-2009, 11:21 AM

Wow, that sounds like our Christmas trip....hard to believe its the same in February

Meteora

02-24-2009, 11:28 AM

Recusit8m

02-24-2009, 11:29 AM

I took my family to WDW for their first trip last month...Jan4-11 to be exact...I have been here numerous times before w/ pretty much the same dates...OMG i havent seen crowds like that before...TSM was gone by 11 and the wait when we went back with fast passes was 180min and people were in line...It was nuts...We spent 2 days at all of the parks except MK...We couldnt deal with it at all...We have wonderful memories from the parks but the 1 day we were at MK was a blurr...We can only remember my daughters first trip on Space Mountain...I can tell you this though, We love Disney but we prob wont be going back again for some time...

JPL

02-24-2009, 11:29 AM

AXOAlum

02-24-2009, 11:33 AM

I think the liability aspect is crucial. In today’s society everything is someone else’s fault. Our society has virtually removed personal accountability whether it's paying your mortgage (see the mortgage bailout ), or behaving in a civil manner on vacation. Bad behavior is glorified in our decaying society.

Personal responsibility and accountability have vanished from our society. It’s no wonder that people act like psychopaths towards others and get away with it.

:ditto: :ditto: :ditto:

At our trip in September, I saw a kid who couldn't have been older than 12 with a shirt on that had two words, but there were letters missing and a slogan that said "Would you like to buy a vowel" - and his parents were walking right along side with him!! (oh, the first word spelled out would have rhymed with a word meaning male deer, and the second word would have been you... I am paraphrasing it this way to be gentle to our readers, but I'm sure you get the point)

We also experienced the mania going to Toy Story Midway Mania during this trip, and yes, MANY CM's were cheering the crowd on as people ran, elbowed, and manuevered their way to TSMM. I seriously didn't see anyone in that park going in any other direction - all million of us were going to the same place. I think that it would be very beneficial to have CM's leading the crowd in behind a rope. I was very scared for DS 6 and DD (then 6 months) as I could see someone knocking her out of DH's arms.

As it stands now, unless you are prepared to wait 2+ hours to experience this attraction, you must be there at rope drop in order to get in line and/or get FP's.

doodleboy

02-24-2009, 11:39 AM

Sorry but I think you are mistaking having money with having class and the 2 are not related.

If Disney isn't concerned about this, they should be. I'm sure most people read in the news that a man was trampled at a Wal-Mart near my house during the Christmas shopping rush. These kinds of things happen, and when small children are part of the crowd, accidents are even more likely to occur. The system is not working as is, and Disney's first priority, always, should be to keep all of their park guests safe.

Nobody has ever been trampled to death at Nordstrom.

johnO

02-24-2009, 11:40 AM

It's a sign of the times. We live in a society WITHOUT patience. Everything has to be NOW, NOW, NOW. With cell phones, cable TV and a 24 hour a day news cycle, patience don't fit in to todays society. "Why should I wait in line" is the very thought in the heads of many. I'm glad someone brought up the Wal-Mart fiasco where a man was trampled to death. Yeah I definetly don't think we're moving forward morally as a society and I do feel that this is just another example of it......

Imagineer1981

02-24-2009, 11:42 AM

I agree I noticed back in June and to make matter worse the CMs at VOTLM were cheering guests on encouraging them to run to TSM. The only way this is going to stop is when someone gets seriously injured and I hate to say it sues them and wins a boat load of cash.

Crowd control at WDW was non-existent in December and I'm sure it's getting worse with the cutbacks taking place. Ian is right they really just don't care any more :mad:

Wow, I can't believe its gotten so bad. I wonder if alot of CMs are under the mentality of "hey I could be laid off tomorrow, so who cares". I personally would have the attitude of "going above and beyond" so that management would have to say, "this guy we need to keep"

JPL

02-24-2009, 11:53 AM

I think the only comparison to Wa-mart here is as an example of what happens with poor crowd control. The Wal-mart scenario took place because they limited the amount of slae items available and the demand was greater than the supply which is exactly the same situaution with FPs at TSM. Trust me I am sure there are just as many people staying at Deluxe Resorts pushing their way towards TSM as people staying at Values. The issue is simply crowd control. There were no blockbuster deals when I experienced it in June so blaming the times of year when there are deal makes no sense.

johnO

02-24-2009, 11:53 AM

I personally would have the attitude of "going above and beyond" so that management would have to say, "this guy we need to keep"

No see you're all wrong. Nowadays the appropriate attitude is to believe that you're entitled to a job at WDW, regardless of your work ethic..........

Marker

02-24-2009, 12:12 PM

Yes Disney should be responsible for doing something. Crowd control comes with the territory whether they like it or not. Unless of course the want the news story with the Headline " Boy Trambled to Death attempting to ride Toy Story Attraction at WDW" Because the longer the wait to control this the worse it will get and the fictional headline above will become a reality.

But anytime Disney, or anyone else, is forced to make special accomodations for those who behave badly, the rest of us pay a price. If Disney if forced to position more cast members to handle the out of control crowd at rope drop, then there are fewer cast members some place else. Shouldn't it be basic human nature to NOT run over another person in order to gain a few places in a line, or a few minutes in a queue?

That's what I mean by "should they have to". When and why did it become commonplace and acceptable to behave so poorly.

And now that they are being tasked with attempting to control such things, they are limited in the methods they can use partly based on what the liabily lawyers advise. Just because something might make more sense, does not mean it is a choise that will best limit liability.

Even though it often seems folks make great sport out of blaming corporate giants for everything that goes wrong, and think it perfectly acceptable to attept to pick those those deep corporate pockets whether it's justified or not, it still remains our own responsibility how we behave.

It is also our own responsibility how we react to that behavior. But again, just my opinion, no one has to agree.

Ian

02-24-2009, 12:20 PM

BTW -- DL is much worse in this area IMHO.That was our experience, as well. The crowds at DL seem to have a much greater tendency to run, push, and shove their way to whatever attraction they're heading to at rope drop.

At our trip in September, I saw a kid who couldn't have been older than 12 with a shirt on that had two words, but there were letters missing and a slogan that said "Would you like to buy a vowel" - and his parents were walking right along side with him!!That was one kid. How many other tens of thousands of kids had normal, non-profane t-shirts on??

Bad parenting is nothing new. You single out one kid and try and use that to portend the downfall of society and I just don't see it.

Disney Doll

02-24-2009, 12:25 PM

We were at the rope drop in DHS the last week of January and did not experience the mob others are describing. It was crowded sure and yes most everyone headed to TSM which created quite a traffic jam over that way, but I didn't see any rude behavior. We also experienced rope drop at DHS last October and again it wasn't too bad. I do think that the time of year you go makes all the difference. When there are huge crowds people get frustrated and irritable. As to why the OP had such a different experience this time as opposed to previous trips in peak season, I blame Disney. Walking the rope to the attraction is such an easy solution and I can't imagine why it's no longer practiced. It's irresponsible to not have more control.

dntccc

02-24-2009, 12:46 PM

I am going to tick some people off with this statement, but I have also noticed a general trend toward this bad behavior when the crowd is there during and incentive period. Buy 4, get 3 is going to bring out some people that don't know how to behave in a crowd. Have you ever noticed that around holiday time in the mall you are presented with a bunch of people that only go out to shop that one time per year? They have little or no etiquette in the parking lot, while waitning in line at the checkout, or anyplace else there is a crowd at the mall.

So, it sounds as if you are saying - having "a lot" of money / being wealthy / etc. equates to having good manners? If this is your take on this, then either you are only seeing what you want to see or you have not been around the "other" crowd enough. I have encountered and seen people who "have money" who displayed very bad manners, and I have encountered and seen people with not so much money display very good manners.

Ian

02-24-2009, 01:04 PM

So, it sounds as if you are saying - having "a lot" of money / being wealthy / etc. equates to having good manners? If this is your take on this, then either you are only seeing what you want to see or you have not been around the "other" crowd enough. I have encountered and seen people who "have money" who displayed very bad manners, and I have encountered and seen people with not so much money display very good manners.One thing I have learned absolutely over the years is that cash does not equate to class.

I know for a fact that many, many of the folks I have seen behaving like morons in WDW are at least moderately affluent. You don't see poor people running others over with a $500 stroller.

JPL

02-24-2009, 01:53 PM

But anytime Disney, or anyone else, is forced to make special accomodations for those who behave badly, the rest of us pay a price. If Disney if forced to position more cast members to handle the out of control crowd at rope drop, then there are fewer cast members some place else. Shouldn't it be basic human nature to NOT run over another person in order to gain a few places in a line, or a few minutes in a queue?

First off it takes 4-6 CMs at AK and that's covering the 2 major attractions. So we are not talking about a large number of people. And yes basic human nature should be not to run,push etc. but when this type of behavior is allowed to take place it become the norm. It's mob mentality happens all the time. A person walking sees 20 people running and starts to run so they won't miss out. Add the CMs encouraging the behavior instead simply saying don't run and you add fuel to the fire. So if Disney takes the 6 CMs cheering on the mad rush and hands them a rope to carry and slow people down they aren't allowing or encouraging the behavior. Sorry but that's the least Disney can do and should fall under their realm of responsibility. Unfortunately we don't live in Utopia so we all need to face some reality even at WDW.

Goofster

02-24-2009, 02:17 PM

So, it sounds as if you are saying - having "a lot" of money / being wealthy / etc. equates to having good manners? If this is your take on this, then either you are only seeing what you want to see or you have not been around the "other" crowd enough. I have encountered and seen people who "have money" who displayed very bad manners, and I have encountered and seen people with not so much money display very good manners.

That's a very nice PC-minded answer. Though the OP could use a little more tact in presenting his theory, its not as if it doesn't hold water or have some ring of truth to it. Case in point...there is a huge difference between the crowds, and their behavior and respect for rules, at Cedar Point and WDW.

AXOAlum

02-24-2009, 02:25 PM

That was one kid. How many other tens of thousands of kids had normal, non-profane t-shirts on??

Bad parenting is nothing new. You single out one kid and try and use that to portend the downfall of society and I just don't see it.

Wow...guess I've been put in my place. I was simply trying to make a comment about the tee-shirt analogy JonO had made, meaning I was shocked at the tee shirt slogan I saw on a young boy. I'll bow out of this topic now.

afowl1017

02-24-2009, 02:33 PM

I also have found bad behavior all over the parks (from WDW, Universal Studios, Sea World, to our local fun parks).This has become my new pet peeve. It is very hard to create a "happy bubble" around you and your family when you get pushed aside, cut-off, and your precious babies in a stroller get bumped around constantly. It becomes "road rage" to a point. Is it a decline in civility? Maybe...but people in masses tend to be pretty "mobbish", People on their own have more respect and tend to act more civil. (However there people who love being the exceptions.)

I believe Disney has a responsibility to help in crowd control though. Although I believe they do a pretty good job of it (better than anywhere else I have been). They deal with massive amounts of people on a daily basis...from all over the country and the world. So Kudos to WDW , but if CM's are egging the "mob" on...shame on them.I wonder if anyone went to guest services to "tattle tell" on them. That is a huge safety issue.

joonyer

02-24-2009, 02:46 PM

A very large effect of the philosophy of post-modern western culture, especially in the U.S., where everyone has been indoctrinated into the concept of the "superiority of the individual" and the "I, ME, MY, MINE", entitlement culture, is that people have been taught directly and indirectly to believe that :

"IT IS ALL ABOUT ME! What I want is more important than anything else and I am entitled to it, so get out of my way."

In general, most people today think much less about how their behavior affects other people than most people 50-100 years ago thought about the consequences of their behavior on others. Many people don't even think their behavior should have any negative consequences on themselves, so we can't realistically expect them to care how it might affect others. Some of them are not being intentionally and deliberately selfish, but the thought that what they do might negatively affect someone else just never even enters their mind. It is a completely foreign concept to their consciousness.

This phenomenon has crossed over through most all socio/economic classes, so that you can't presume that more educated - wealthier people or that less educated - poorer people are more or less likely to behave selfishly than other groups.

DISCLAIMER: I am only an "amateur" sociologist, but my laboratory has been my courtroom (I am a judge) and my experience there over the past 20 years. It still amazes me almost daily how many people have no clue about the consequences of their behavior.

afowl1017

02-24-2009, 02:48 PM

I wonder if anyone went to guest services to "tattle tell" on them. That is a huge safety issue.

I was just told by my DH that, that wouldn't help at all. Maybe not, but what can one do?

LarryBoy

02-24-2009, 02:52 PM

How many kids wear T-shirts with Einstein on it? None. They're all wearing shirts with Scarface, the Sopranos or 50-Cent.

Actually my son has a shirt with Einstein on it. :thumbsup: I have one is well, what's really cool is they glow in the dark. ;) NO really we do.

“Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited to all we now know and understand, while imagination embraces the entire world, and all there ever will be to know and understand.”
Albert Einstein

afowl1017

02-24-2009, 03:02 PM

I love these types of disscussions...maybe because it is a type of therapy for me.

A very large effect of the philosophy of post-modern western culture, especially in the U.S., where everyone has been indoctrinated into the concept of the "superiority of the individual" and the "I, ME, MY, MINE", entitlement culture, is that people have been taught directly and indirectly to believe that :

"IT IS ALL ABOUT ME! What I want is more important than anything else and I am entitled to it, so get out of my way."

Don't you find that society rewards this type of behavior? It seems so out of control.

good post :thumbsup:

doodleboy

02-24-2009, 03:08 PM

I was just told by my DH that, that wouldn't help at all. Maybe not, but what can one do?

It will help! If they hear it enough, they will have to respond. As I have mentioned in the past send an email to: [email protected] or letter to:
Walt Disney World
Guest Communication
PO Box 10040
Lake Buena Vista, FL 32830-0040

I want to have a good experience at WDW, and I am willing to fight for it. Don't let your voice be muted by having the attitude that you can't do anything about it. Your money is as green as the folks who push and shove you around in those parks. In fact, I would bet that there are more folks like us, who want to just have a good time without aggression. But how would WDW know that without letting them know.

Enough, I'll shut up for now.

Ian

02-24-2009, 03:16 PM

Wow...guess I've been put in my place. I was simply trying to make a comment about the tee-shirt analogy JonO had made, meaning I was shocked at the tee shirt slogan I saw on a young boy. I'll bow out of this topic now.I wasn't trying to put you in your place. I just used your post as a springboard to support my point (made previously) that I don't really buy into the whole "decline of Western civilization" argument. I think people have, by and large, always been like this.

I should, however, have been more clear that I wasn't singling you out. It would have been more appropriate to say something like, "This is what I was saying before ... there was one child with a profane shirt on, but tens of thousands with perfectly acceptable shirts. It's the bad ones that stick out, though, and I think that skews perceptions sometimes."

I posted what I originally posted in a rush and really didn't stop to think how it read or how it would be perceived. My apologies if I sounded like I was singling you out. Didn't mean it that way at all.

afowl1017

02-24-2009, 03:17 PM

Thanks Doodleboy! Appreciate the encouragement!

wire0monkey

02-24-2009, 03:25 PM

4ubie1

02-24-2009, 03:28 PM

I have to say the point made about giving the CMs (who were cheering on the crowds to run for attractions) a rope and leading the crowd through slowly is a good one. I promise you the CMs would not be encouraging the crowd to run if they were in between the mob and their goal...plus it would be a fairly effective crowd control procedure.

Also I could have sworn I went once to DS when they let people in early to roam around the park even though the attractions were not open. It did lessen the crowd at opening...although this idea might just lead people to crowd the front of the attraction/fastpass area..but then one could argue that it would be easier to control a mob in a queue/line area at the attraction then at the wide rope drop area. People would be forced into a bottle neck at the queue..which isnt necessarily safer but it does slow people down. Plus, it takes less CMs to control the situation and they could walk the rope through the queue line to further slow people down like at other attractions.

Just a thought anway! :shrug:

Marceline

02-24-2009, 03:47 PM

Wow. All of this just makes me happy that I don't go for the "rope drop" moment. I did it once a long time ago, it was special to see the park empty for a few moments but when the herd began mooooving I realized how silly it all was.

One poster mentioned that many blogs and guide books tell their readers to show up early to be the first to get in line for a fast passes. I would think a smart bird would be wary of these "secret" supposedly time savings tips in mass produced and widely read sources.

I don't rush on vacation, there is no need. The ride will still be there when I get there. If I miss this boat/monorail/bus....another one will be by in a bit. :turtle:

I am weird....I enjoy the waiting. I NEVER do fastpass. It's part of the experience, it's a good chance to absorb the ambiance, people watch, have the glorious realization wash over you that you are in fact AT Walt Disney World.:balloon:

People need to learn to breathe. I am going to get zen on ya'll for a second. It's not the NOW that is the problem, it's everyone always thinking twenty steps ahead that's the issue...

----First I am going to wake up get dressed and rush to dress the kids and then rush rush rush through breakfast and then rush rush rush to the park and then fidget while we wait for the rope to drop so we can rush rush rush to get a fastpass so we can rush rush rush to do the next thing.----
Is that fun?

You only really waste time when you aren't enjoying the moment you are in.

Ian

02-24-2009, 04:01 PM

dntccc

02-24-2009, 04:16 PM

That's a very nice PC-minded answer. Though the OP could use a little more tact in presenting his theory, its not as if it doesn't hold water or have some ring of truth to it. Case in point...there is a huge difference between the crowds, and their behavior and respect for rules, at Cedar Point and WDW.

I very seldom try to be "PC" and was by no means attempting to be so in my answer. I am not sure how I came across that way. I was simply stating what I have observed. The OP basically drew a conclusion based on his observations that I think was short-sited and stereotypical. He sited times when Disney is more crowded that coincide with specials, discounts, etc. He also sited as an example shopping during holiday times. Both of these examples involve much larger crowds than usual and, apparently, more bad behavior. To attribute this bad behavior to mainly be due to the financial status of a group of people who may be out in greater numbers during those times is, again, I think short-sited and stereotypical. A correlation does not necessarily equate to a cause. An alternate possibility as to the reason for this observation of increased rudeness during these times could be what has already been mentioned in other posts - that mobs tend to bring out rudeness in people who may otherwise be polite most of the time.

EeyoresBestFriend

02-24-2009, 04:18 PM

I am in NO WAY defending this dispicable, public bullying behaviour that some people have ~ but maybe some of it is sparked by the tough times. When people have stretched themselves financially more than they maybe should have, their trip takes on a tone of desperation. Kinda like the last kick at the cat??:confused:
Still does not excuse the ignorance of the people exhibiting it and, gawd forbid, teaching their children that this is acceptable:(
I certainly do not think anything less than friendly courtesy and respect is acceptable in ANY public place.
:mickey: Please, Thank You and A Smile :mickey: ~ how tough can this be ??

johnO

02-24-2009, 07:47 PM

grwoolf

02-24-2009, 08:14 PM

We were at WDW first week of Feb. and didn't experience anything too crazy at DHS or the other parks. I can tell you there was no running because we were one of the first 10 people or so on TSM and I didn't run. I can't remember how they controlled our speed, but I'm pretty sure we walked behind CMs and they were calling out anyone running in the crowd. There is always fast walking and people trying to move up through the crowd at all the parks at rope drop, but I haven't seen too many people I'd consider dangerous, even when they used to let you run to Space Mtn years ago. I've seen a few people trying to cut people off, run through stores, etc., but we just stay away from them. We really like the energy of the rope drop and don't find it near as scary/dangerous as departing the parks at night after fireworks/shows, but still wouldn't recommend doing ropedrop (at the front) with a stroller or kids walking younger than 7 or 8. When my kids were younger, we would just hang back a bit or send an adult to get fast passes. We have been during summer, but never the crazy-busy times, so maybe I would feel differently if I experienced what people saw over president's day. I also agree with the others that suggest a walking rope like at AK. They actually pick a family each day to carry the rope to safari and we have been lucky enough to do it 3 times out of around 10 mornings at AK (we almost always arrive early and stand to the left/front if we want to be the rope family).

stardebby

02-24-2009, 08:22 PM

we just got back from a 3 day trip to WDW and I had a wonderful time. Avoided all the rope drop drama and still rode everything we wanted to ride except TSM . After reading this thread I am so glad we avoid all that madness at opening. As for riding TSM maybe next trip!

doodleboy

02-24-2009, 08:37 PM

I very seldom try to be "PC" and was by no means attempting to be so in my answer. I am not sure how I came across that way. I was simply stating what I have observed. The OP basically drew a conclusion based on his observations that I think was short-sited and stereotypical. He sited times when Disney is more crowded that coincide with specials, discounts, etc. He also sited as an example shopping during holiday times. Both of these examples involve much larger crowds than usual and, apparently, more bad behavior. To attribute this bad behavior to mainly be due to the financial status of a group of people who may be out in greater numbers during those times is, again, I think short-sited and stereotypical. A correlation does not necessarily equate to a cause. An alternate possibility as to the reason for this observation of increased rudeness during these times could be what has already been mentioned in other posts - that mobs tend to bring out rudeness in people who may otherwise be polite most of the time.

I concede to a point. I agree that some of this behavior is related to the size of the crowds, but to limit your conclusion to a single cause may not be the answer either. I'm not sure how urban of an area you live in (just making a statement, not a wise crack), but anyone that lives in an urban area that is extremely populous knows what I am talking about. I agree that there are good and bad people in all demographics, but sometimes the personal circumstances, living conditions, and influence of those around us create who we are and how we act in social situations. The answer may be a little nature and a bit nurture.

They don't film "Cops" in Beverly Hills - not because it totally lacks crime, but because it is not as frequent.

I love WDW and always remind my children to be polite and respectful of others when we are there, even when they are not reciprocating. I just wish others would do the same.

JPL

02-24-2009, 08:41 PM

They don't film "Cops" in Beverly Hills - not because it totally lacks crime, but because it is not as frequent.

Hate to say it but they have filmed there

doodleboy

02-24-2009, 08:56 PM

Hate to say it but they have filmed there

I think I actually saw that one. :-o But you know what I meant. I have a friend that is a police officer in an affluent area, and if it wasn't for issuing tickets and visiting schools, she wouldn't have much to do.

I grew up in a nasty crime laden neighborhood in Chicago, and I guarantee you would not want to be waiting in line for Soarin' for 90 minutes with most of residents of that area. Your kids would pickup a whole new vocabulary. :blush:

JPL

02-24-2009, 09:03 PM

But overall regardless of who is visiting the parks the main point is that Disney is still responsible for crowd control which is sadly lacking lately for whatever reason. I have had the pleasure of meeting all types of people from all walks of life from the super rich to the very poor and from all areas of the country, and I can tell you this rude obnoxious people are rude obnoxious people it doesn't matter if they live in a poor urban or a Mansion in Beverly Hills. The same can be said for good people. But once again at Disney there is a large mix of people and it is Disney's job to manage that crowd and make every guest feel safe as well as be safe. They seem to be failing to some degree when it leads to discussions like this.

doodleboy

02-24-2009, 09:12 PM

Ditto, agreed, and good night to all.:thumbsup:

Is it rude to hate rude people?:thedolls: If so, I am rude too.

MistressGracey999

02-24-2009, 09:47 PM

Hello all! Just wanted to say first that I am THRILLED to have found this forum! I have enjoyed reading everyone's posts, and am totally psyched to have found a group of DisFans like yourselves online. Finally, people I can relate to! :thumbsup:

I have noticed a definite increase in rudeness amongst the park goers in the last three years. I struggle to keep my focus on MY family and OFF of these people in order to protect the considerable investment of our vacation.

The last year we were there, I was nearly burned by lit cigarettes on two occasions by smokers strolling through the park. I have NOTHING against smokers, and I know that alot of the attitude is "It's the open air...why can't we smoke anywhere we want as long as it's outside"...but I think Disney put in the smoking area to reduce cigarette butts being tossed on the ground, and to keep people from getting burned in butt-to-gut crowds by careless, arm-swinging smokers.

When everyone follows the rules, a better time is had by all, IMO. Does that sound too Mary Poppins?? :angel:

hubbyofadisneyholic

02-24-2009, 11:00 PM

I just don't buy the 'the economy is bad' argument. I have to respectfully disagree with Ian here. Society has changed, and for the worse, IMHO. All you have to do is run down the list of what is permissable nowadays as compared to a couple of decades ago.

Ian you pointed out the fact that it was "only one kid's T-Shirt", but just because they singled out a particular kid doesn't mean that they didn't witness other poor behavior. Think back a couple of decades and how someone with a shirt like that would have been turned away from the gates all together. Now a filth laden shirt is fine. Just like profanity on daytime television is 'fine', or nudity, or the explicit lyrics of songs heard on regular FM stations. You can "glass is half full" this situation all you want but I think it's quite obvious that society is getting worse and poor behavior at WDW is just a symptom of the decay. My career has allowed me a front row seat for many years.

I couldn't agree more!!!
Back in the early 90s I know of a guy that was told his shirt was too revealing and he had to cover up. Now we routinely see females wearing tops showing a LOT more than his shirt was. And apparently it is just fine.

We have made roughly 30 trips to WDW since 1985 and anyone that says behavior isn't going downhill over the years is deluding themselves.

Once upon a time Disney customer service was the "gold standard" in the industry. A rude or poorly trained CM was a rarity. Crowds were handled politely and efficiently.
Now, hardly a trip goes by that doesn't involve an encounter with a guest or CM who's behavior would have made Walt cringe.

I really do envy those that post that they have never had to deal with rude guests or incompetent CMs. Their luck is way better than mine...

teamblackwell

02-25-2009, 01:17 AM

That's a very nice PC-minded answer. Though the OP could use a little more tact in presenting his theory, its not as if it doesn't hold water or have some ring of truth to it. Case in point...there is a huge difference between the crowds, and their behavior and respect for rules, at Cedar Point and WDW.

My last trip to Cedar point was last spring and I didn't encounter any bad behavior by guests. Actually, I enjoy the rope drop and "mad" run to the first attraction. I've never seen or even HEARD of anyone getting trappled at CP morning rope drop. (and for those who have never been there, running to an attraction is not breaking any rule at CP, according to guest services employee) It thins out the crowd nicely. Somehow CP guests know, that if your slow, you stay to the sides and let the faster people go ahead and clear out.
The next time your at Disney look at who will be at the front of the rope drop, A mom trying to drive two double strollers and 4 other kids on leashes, taking up the entire street. Listen close, she'll be saying "I just spent $3000 on this vacation I deserve to be first in line."
lol

AXOAlum

02-25-2009, 09:51 AM

"This is what I was saying before ... there was one child with a profane shirt on, but tens of thousands with perfectly acceptable shirts. It's the bad ones that stick out, though, and I think that skews perceptions sometimes."

Being sick really stinks... I can't seem to get better, and I realized that when I placed my original post, I somehow didn't include the tee-shirt message from JohnO in it:

"How many kids wear T-shirts with Einstein on it? None. They're all wearing shirts with Scarface, the Sopranos or 50-Cent. Criminality is glorified in our country. We live in a world where BAD is good."

Which is what I meant to comment on regarding the tee-shirt. Aye-ya-ya! My kingdom for a magic pill that will make this stuffy head and cough go away...

Ian, apology accepted and my apologies for making a less-than-clear post that left out the subject of my own rant :mickey:

me = :ill: and not happy about it :(

beksy

02-25-2009, 09:58 AM

After skimming over these posts, two things came to mind. First, I feel sorry for the kids of the parents that are acting this way. They are going to grow up to be just as rude, if not worse. Whatever happened to parents sitting a good example? That seems to happen less and less these days (of course the t.v. and video games seem to be spending more time with the kids than the parents do in some cases too.) It is just sad how society has changed and is continuing to change, and not just at Disney.

Second, I'm going to have to develop a plan to ride TSM! I am in an ECV and don't want to deal with the crowds at rope drop so it looks like I'll be parking somewhere and letting Dbf go get the fastpasses (he's little and fast! :thumbsup:). I don't want to trample people or get trampled! I just need to remember to show him how to get the fastpasses before that morning!

jrpersinger

02-25-2009, 01:04 PM

In all my years of going, I have only encountered rude guest at the parks a few times. Unfortunately, it always comes from the same group. There is a group from Brazil that seems to be there every year in June when we go. It is a bunch of teenagers and they have to be the rudest group (and HUGE group at that) of people I have ever seen. There were alot of complaints about them this past year from my understanding.

And I have only ever encountered 1 bad castmember. That was at Test Track and he wouldn't give us a childswap ticket. Even tho we were doing it right. Myself and DH were the ones who were going to be waiting with DD and everyone else was going on. So DH and I went over to get the childswap ticket and the family was standing back behind us about 10ft back, not inline, just standing there waiting on us to get the ticket, but he said NO because we already had fastpasses and you couldn't use them together. And refused to give us a childswap pass. I was livid to say the least. And complained to a few other castmembers but they couldn't leave where they were at to do anything about it. So, I stood outside with my kid while the rest of our family, including DH went inside. A few moments later, a women dressed in a white cream shirt and kaki shorts came up to me and escorted DD and I into the ride. She walked us up to where our family was in line and told us when we got up to the ride, to swap out there. Meaning, DD, DH and I waited at the loading area until the rest of the family got off, then we rode. The CM apologized over and over and said she had no idea why he wouldn't give us a childswap. But he was no longer standing at the entrance when we came back.

dntccc

02-25-2009, 04:56 PM

I concede to a point. I agree that some of this behavior is related to the size of the crowds, but to limit your conclusion to a single cause may not be the answer either.

I was not trying to limit this to a single cause. However, that is what it seemed like you were doing, and I was offering an alternate possible cause.

javamama

02-26-2009, 12:58 AM

JohnO I agree w/your original post, and your not on any soapbox some great points.

People, whether young or old need to be held accountable for their actions, and behavior whether good or bad. Adults/parents need to teach their kids how to behave publically, and in private and they may need to step up and lead from example. Sure we can blame other factors on behavior heat, crowds, we're tired, hungry, but we need to act like civilized human beings to each other and not fools.

Ksmith75

02-26-2009, 09:35 AM

Wow, that was horrible. We go in end of april -may - so it usually isnt that bad...

however we have run into a few rude adults. Its just my husband and I that go (we are in our early 30s)... there was a women with her kid pushing us in line (I think it was at the animal kingdom or mk - cant remember) and she was complaining loudly that people with kids should be able to go at the front of the line and the others at the end.

diz_girl

02-26-2009, 11:03 AM

Time to add my :twocents:.

The big problem with DHS and why TSM is ridiculously popular is that DHS doesn't really have any other 'rides' (I'm not talking about shows) for small children. Any other 'rides' at DHS seem to have height requirements. That's why I avoided DHS during our most recent trip in December (same week as Ian). If DHS had more rides appropriate for small children, maybe the stress would be taken off of TSM.

As far as the whole 'what is this world coming to' statements, I agree that the mob mentality is as old as humanity. For the most part, it's civility that's more recent. Only in the past few decades in the U.S. has spousal abuse and child abuse become unacceptable. They were accepted and sometimes encouraged. Unfortunately, it still happens, but I hope that it will become nonexistent. We also now have civil rights for many in this country who used to have fewer rights than the majority. All I have to say is that it sure is nice to have the right to vote, something that I wouldn't have had a century ago, and the right to own property if I were married, something that I wouldn't have had 150 years ago.

As for the bad behavior, this is going to sound a bit tangential, but it really stems from the whole entitlement mentality that came with the easy credit of the past two decades. With this bad recession, it seems that that time may now be over. And if so, maybe the 'I want it now, I deserve it now' mentality (or the 'I paid $3000 for this WDW vacation so I can do what I want' mentality) will give way to the character-building activities such as saving money (delayed gratification) that is earned through hard work. It may take time, but maybe not as much as you would think. Hey, I can dream, can't I?

crltkcagle

02-26-2009, 11:45 AM

:down: thats terrible!

briguy

02-26-2009, 04:13 PM

Let me start my post with a strange and seemingly unrelated analogy...

I hate cucumbers. Can't stand em. When I see someone eating them I think "why the heck would you want to???". BUT - I have no interest in telling them not to, nor does it impact my life.

I say this to make it clear I'm not trying to judge anyone that wants to rush, rush, rush at WDW, but why would you want to???

For me work = rush to get up, rush to get ready, battle traffic, beat deadlines, etc

Vacation = exact opposite. In the words of the Beatles "oh that magic feeling, nowhere to go"

If I gotta rush to get up, rush to catch a bus, rush to beat foot traffic to an attraction, etc I might as well be at work.

I know its different since I have the luxury of going multiple times per year, and maybe if it were a once in a lifetime thing I'd feel different, but really, its vacation people!!

And remember, if 10% of all people are rude, it will take you much longer to find one when its a slow time than when its crowded. Make a game of it...Spot the Jerk. Give points to the person in your group who sees the biggest idiot. It will make it much more tolerable.

Thanks, and if you happen to run into me at a restaurant in Disney...you can have my cucumbers!

Toad_Passenger

02-27-2009, 08:14 AM

I say this to make it clear I'm not trying to judge anyone that wants to rush, rush, rush at WDW, but why would you want to???

For me work = rush to get up, rush to get ready, battle traffic, beat deadlines, etc

Vacation = exact opposite. In the words of the Beatles "oh that magic feeling, nowhere to go"

Respectfully snipped.

I completely agree with your sentiment. I have seen some of the worst behavior with people at WDW over the years, but I've never really let it bother me.

We spend a whole week there, and do so at a very leisurely pace. Perhaps it's because we know we'll be back soon, but if we don't get to do EVERYTHING it's not a big deal. I would hate to be at WDW and feel like I was on a whirlwind tour, because I'd probably come home more tired than when I left, whereas I want to come home refreshed.

We do have our favorites and we make sure we see them, but if it means one day having to wait 60 minutes in line, so be it. I remember when I was young (before FP) waiting 2 hours for Space Mountain because that's what you had to do. Maybe FP has spoiled a lot of people, because back then the 2-hour wait rarely included anyone being rude and unruly.

The point is that it is my vacation, and I like to take it slow and not be stressed by the other people around me. If someone is rude and bumps into me, I simply smile at them, because, "Hey! I'm at Disney!" and that's all that matters. :)

Stickey

02-27-2009, 03:22 PM

The key issue here is that Disney is responsible for proper crowd control procedures and they are liable for any accidents/tramplings. The described situation indicates an insufficient response to the popularity of TSM. I believe that Disney needs to be stricter in dealing with those who abuse the safety of other guests and CM's and are destructive toward Disney property.

September 2007 was the worst in our experience as free dining resulted in substantially larger crowd levels. I never encountered such a large number of ignorant and inconsiderate people at WDW. Intelligence and class are not determined by income. Disney's continued tolerance of poor guest behavior will only worsen the problem.

Mousemates

02-28-2009, 11:28 AM

Mousemates

02-28-2009, 11:33 AM

We do have our favorites and we make sure we see them, but if it means one day having to wait 60 minutes in line, so be it. I remember when I was young (before FP) waiting 2 hours for Space Mountain because that's what you had to do. Maybe FP has spoiled a lot of people, because back then the 2-hour wait rarely included anyone being rude and unruly.

yea, back in the day we were known to do an hour plus wait for SM, ride, get off and jump back in line...and be in a perfectly good mood about the whole thing. We went expecting to wait for what we most wanted to do (as did others). The wait didn't tick many people off and incite rude behaviour. Its simply different now.

RedHead

02-28-2009, 07:13 PM

We go during the school's February break every year - and while the weekend (Sat - Mon) of President's Day is usually crowded, it's never been this crowded and this insane for the entire week.

DHS is a park that does not handle crowds well. The insanity at the rope drop that we experienced (three times last week) was like nothing I've ever seen before. Grown adults fighting (with elbows and shoves) to be amongst the first to TSM. FP's for TSM gone by 10:15 AM daily.

EPCOT with the same craziness heading to Soarin'. Waits of over 100 minutes early in the day and never subsiding. Waits of over 60 minutes consistently for Maelstrom. We did attend the Friday night EMH at EPCOT. Let me put it this way - never again. :shake:

The MK - let's leave it at this - I'm glad we arrived early (even hit the CP for Pooh's b'fast one day) and left after lunch. That park just gets nuts.

[SNIP]

I've not witnessed WDW with such large crowds who were behaving so badly before... And before you comment on that, know this - I go only when schools are out. I have been there Christmas week (several times), as well as Easter, President's Week, and July 4th.

Worst we saw was DHS. People pushing past CM's, ignoring their directions, cutting under ropes, around designated areas, and hopping over queues. People were just so incredibly rude, disrepectful, and downright embarrassing. Folks, I'm not talking about teens - I'm talking about parents with children. :cry: Very sad.

Last week was bar-none, the worst I've experienced. And it wasn't due to the crowd size, it was due to the crowd's behavior.

Anyone else notice a decline in the civility of people on "vacation?"

I can say that I was in WDW the weekend after you - DHS first thing, which had had EMH that day. Line for TSM was 60 minutes. The lady in front of me, with four children, then allowed her friend with the infant to cut the line and join her. When I politely said something to her, she got all hostile, told me to mind my own business, and who did I think I was anyway? I told her it WAS my business because her friend just slowed ME down, and that it was the job of all decent people to teach children that line cutting was wrong. Of course, all THROUGH the line, she was busy chatting with her friend, letting the children walk on railings, sit down in the middle of the line to play games in their autograph books, drop cereal and step on it, making a mess....yeah, some parent. (BTW - TSM ain't worth an hour's wait. :( )

We didn't find it as bad in the rest of the park, nor in EPCOT (Malestrom was maybe 15 minutes, but Soarin' - we got fast passes at noon for 6pm!), and MK was actually decent. Then again, some of the shoving when POTC crashed wasn't fun....some people simply cannot follow directions!

Alas. It wasn't a "hard ride" weekend, it was detox - and that we did. Except I need another one!

:mickey:

RedHead

02-28-2009, 07:23 PM

RedHead

02-28-2009, 07:43 PM

I grew up in a nasty crime laden neighborhood in Chicago, and I guarantee you would not want to be waiting in line for Soarin' for 90 minutes with most of residents of that area. Your kids would pickup a whole new vocabulary. :blush:

I sat at breakfast at a LBV hotel last weekend, and heard a teenage male, sitting with a brother and father, refer to a woman as a <snip> - in public, in front of a parent, with children around - and nothing was said to him by said parent. I was appalled. (Of course, this was the same youth who used his hands, not the tongs, to get breakfast items off the buffet...)
:confused::confused:

doodleboy

02-28-2009, 07:44 PM

The lady in front of me, with four children, then allowed her friend with the infant to cut the line and join her. When I politely said something to her, she got all hostile, told me to mind my own business, and who did I think I was anyway? I told her it WAS my business because her friend just slowed ME down, and that it was the job of all decent people to teach children that line cutting was wrong.:mickey:

I'm sorry, but haven't you ever had someone hold a place in line for you before? Maybe her friend needed to feed or change that infant. We do it all of the time for similar reasons.

RedHead

02-28-2009, 07:52 PM

I'm sorry, but haven't you ever had someone hold a place in line for you before? Maybe her friend needed to feed or change that infant. We do it all of the time for similar reasons.

(A) The woman hadn't been in the line to leave it to change/feed said infant, so there was no place to save.

(B) This was a blatent "come join me in line" cut - the same as one teenager asking another friend, outside the line, to jump the chain and join her.

If they wanted to ride together, the woman IN the line should have joined her friend at the BACK of the line. I've done THAT a number of times. Not taken someone else's spot, and forced them further back.

doodleboy

02-28-2009, 08:04 PM

(A) The woman hadn't been in the line to leave it to change/feed said infant, so there was no place to save.

(B) This was a blatent "come join me in line" cut - the same as one teenager asking another friend, outside the line, to jump the chain and join her.

If they wanted to ride together, the woman IN the line should have joined her friend at the BACK of the line. I've done THAT a number of times. Not taken someone else's spot, and forced them further back.

I guess I'm guilty of being as rude a her then. I have run ahead and jumped in line for an attraction line while my kids finished eating or ran to the bathroom. I don't think it is that uncommon or out of line. That person that is in line is a member of that group and acts as a place holder for the others. What difference does is make if she had gotten in line with her friend and jumped out, then back in. She still would have been in front of you. I do it and never get upset when someone else does it. The group is working together as a team to maximize their time. Of course what to I know, I come from a city where people put chairs in front of their homes to reserve parking spaces after they have shoveled it following a snow storm.

RedHead

03-01-2009, 06:36 AM

I guess I'm guilty of being as rude a her then. I have run ahead and jumped in line for an attraction line while my kids finished eating or ran to the bathroom. I don't think it is that uncommon or out of line. That person that is in line is a member of that group and acts as a place holder for the others. What difference does is make if she had gotten in line with her friend and jumped out, then back in. She still would have been in front of you. I do it and never get upset when someone else does it. The group is working together as a team to maximize their time. Of course what to I know, I come from a city where people put chairs in front of their homes to reserve parking spaces after they have shoveled it following a snow storm.

I guess you are, then. If the person in front of me had gotten out of line to join her friend, they would have joined together at the END of the line, where the line jumper should have gone.

As far as your chair/snowshoveling story - there are two big differences there, but legally you are still in the wrong. One difference is the work you put into shoveling the snow out of the space, which does give you first right to the spot - at least immediately. No one works to get a spot in a Disney line, except for running over other people, smashing small children, etc. Second, the spot is in front of your own home, an understandable reason for you to have some claim on the area. No one owns a spot in a Disney line or owns a Disney attraction except the Disney Corporation. However, legally, street parking is a public area, and anyone could move your chair and take the spot legally. Thinking that you can hold a public parking spot, especially if there is none other available, empty for hours on end is truly an example of "me-neess."

Maleficent's Dad

03-01-2009, 07:07 AM

I have run ahead and jumped in line for an attraction line while my kids finished eating or ran to the bathroom. I don't think it is that uncommon or out of line.
:nono: :nono:
This is the type of behavior that leads to fights, lawsuits, and overall miserable vacations for other people.
Actually, it is out of line and against the rules for WDW. No one is allowed to hold spots for others while waiting in line.

The group is working together as a team to maximize their time.
No, the "group" is not working "together." This is a case where one person is doing the work and the team is benefitting. The team works together when they all get in line at the same time.

I try to not let things like this bother me, but as the OP for this thread, I must say, you can only take "so much" of others breaking the rules. :beat:

PirateLover

03-01-2009, 09:40 AM

If they wanted to ride together, the woman IN the line should have joined her friend at the BACK of the line. I've done THAT a number of times. Not taken someone else's spot, and forced them further back.

Or, they could have waited in the beginning, or said "We'll do the next ride together instead."

I think you had a good point when you talked about taking away the fact that it was a woman with an infant. I think most people would get upset if it was a teenager in line who then called his or her friend up on the phone and then they cut ahead to join them.

I have never gone ahead and gotten in line while my family took care of other business. We wait for everyone to go to the bathroom, to finish their food, get their fastpasses from the ride across the park...whatever it is, we do it together. The only time I find "cutting in line" permissible is when a small child has to go to the bathroom, and they leave and come back. Some things you just can't control.

As far as this whole crazy Toy Story Mania thing, I'm legitimately concerned for our June trip. Thankfully we are going for my fiancee's birthday, so maybe we'll take the fastpass option just so we don't have to worry about that....

Ian

03-01-2009, 10:16 AM

A couple friendly moderator warnings, folks.

Watch the language. Remember that even "*'ed out content is not allowed on INTERCOT.

Also, the back-and-forth is getting a bit much and some of these posts are getting a bit personal. Maybe it's time to let this thread die and move on to something more productive.

grwoolf

03-01-2009, 10:26 AM

Getting in line and holding a spot for others that can't get in line at the same time?????????? That's OK????!!!!!!

Am I missing something? Isn't that the actual definition of cutting in line? I guess the other interpretation is people that just get in line without knowing anyone, but I don't see too much of that. I can't understand how anyone can interpret holding a spot for someone (who didn't start at the end of the line) as anything but cutting in line. For me it's worse if it's a family rather than a teenager, because it's so sad seeing partents teaching this as acceptable behavior to their kids. I don't don't consider my self a die-hard rule follower or anything, it's just common sense and very basic courtesy to others. If your group isn't all ready to get in line, just wait for your group to be ready or get a fast pass (which is basically a system to hold a place in line within the rules). If someone needs to get out of line to go to the bathroom or something, I don't think anybody has a problem with that.

kathiep

03-01-2009, 10:40 AM

My family was on line for TSM in September. We got our FP's and then hopped on the stand by which was only 45 minutes at that point. We were probably waiting about 30 when DS, 5, realized he had to go to the bathroom again. We all, DH, DD, DS & I left the line. DH and DD didn't want to continue waiting and ride without us because it was our first time. I never once considered leaving DH and DD in line and returning to join them. To me, this is unacceptable. If DD & Dh wanted to stay and ride, that would be fine. But to expect everyone behind us to let us back through, to me, that's not OK. It's just a ride and we knew we'd have another chance to ride. Sure, it stunk to wait that long for nothing, but in the grand scheme of things, is it important enough to inconvenience everyone else? No.

Eeyore Phan

03-01-2009, 03:13 PM

To add one to the rude pile:

Today while waiting in line for Tomorrowland Speedway a woman had her 4 year old pull down his pants and start peeing in the bushes off the platform. Appauling to think people could behave so brazen!

doodleboy

03-01-2009, 04:27 PM

I guess you are, then. If the person in front of me had gotten out of line to join her friend, they would have joined together at the END of the line, where the line jumper should have gone.

True if she had gotten out of line, they should have both gotten to the end of the line, but she didn't. Maybe it's a Chicago thing, but everyone I know does this, from all different walks of life.

As far as your chair/snowshoveling story - there are two big differences there, but legally you are still in the wrong. One difference is the work you put into shoveling the snow out of the space, which does give you first right to the spot - at least immediately. No one works to get a spot in a Disney line, except for running over other people, smashing small children, etc. Second, the spot is in front of your own home, an understandable reason for you to have some claim on the area. No one owns a spot in a Disney line or owns a Disney attraction except the Disney Corporation. However, legally, street parking is a public area, and anyone could move your chair and take the spot legally. Thinking that you can hold a public parking spot, especially if there is none other available, empty for hours on end is truly an example of "me-neess."

Sometimes unwritten rules exist that everyone just respects, and although I agree that legally someone could move the chair, nobody ever does. You can drive up and down the street for miles and all you see are chairs lined up forever. As long as we are all playing by the same rules it seems to work. I have had to park some distance from a friends house because everyone is saving their spots. Another example is saving space for parades. We have a couple of good sized parades, and it is not uncommon for someone to hold space for others joining them later. I also see this behavior at WDW, maybe all of these cutters and space savers are from my part of the country.

masondoggy

03-02-2009, 07:37 AM

My last trip to Cedar point was last spring and I didn't encounter any bad behavior by guests. Actually, I enjoy the rope drop and "mad" run to the first attraction. I've never seen or even HEARD of anyone getting trappled at CP morning rope drop. (and for those who have never been there, running to an attraction is not breaking any rule at CP, according to guest services employee) It thins out the crowd nicely. Somehow CP guests know, that if your slow, you stay to the sides and let the faster people go ahead and clear out.
The next time your at Disney look at who will be at the front of the rope drop, A mom trying to drive two double strollers and 4 other kids on leashes, taking up the entire street. Listen close, she'll be saying "I just spent $3000 on this vacation I deserve to be first in line."
lol

I've been to CP more times than I can count and I don't ever remember any madness in the morning that I've seen described here. I don't even remember people running or anything like that. But the difference could be that park is HUGE (350+ acres I believe) and there are so many rides and attractions that everybody goes in different directions. I've noticed that lines have actually gotten shorter in recent years as they have added more coasters and that really spreads the thrill seekers through the park. :thumbsup:

dixielandings

03-02-2009, 09:36 AM

Maleficent's Dad

03-02-2009, 09:48 AM

And I like TSM, but really? What makes it so ... whatever it is to people? I've never known a new attraction to create this kind of...well, MANIA.
The only time I've seen this type of craziness is when the subs returned to Disneyland in Anaheim. :(

angyl15

03-02-2009, 10:24 AM

Just a quick note to everyone out there....not everyone from Chicago has the "save my spot" mentality.

johnO

03-02-2009, 11:24 AM

Just a quick note to everyone out there....not everyone from Chicago has the "save my spot" mentality.
As a former Chicagoan, I second that.....

AXOAlum

03-02-2009, 12:36 PM

My girlfriend is at the MK today and tomorrow, so I'm anxious to hear her report. We've been talking about this thread and the behaviors seen recently. I can only hope that we will be traveling with the most gracious of all Disney guests during our trip in a couple weeks :mickey:

As for the line saving/cutting - there is a difference, IMO, in letting my 6yo sit and finish his lunch while I go save a place in line (not acceptable to me). BUT - I will say there have been times where we have been in line waiting, and the urge hits for him to go potty NOW. I have stood in line while DH takes him to the potty and brings him back when the line allows (i.e., not trampling over people to get out of line or back in line). I don't think this is wrong, and have seen others do it and graciously understood their dilemma.

I cannot, however, stand rudeness on anyone's part when they are either leaving or trying to catch back up to their party. You can be gracious and say "please excuse me" or "emergency bathroom trip - sorry" while leaving or rejoining a line.

dumbo_buddy

03-02-2009, 12:42 PM

As a former Chicagoan, I second that.....

totally agree. i lived in chicago for 4 years and never came across people accepting cutting in line.

likes like saying everyone in the bronx lives in the ghetto (not me!)

mrsgaribaldi

03-02-2009, 05:40 PM

We were in the world the week of Feb 8th and the crowds were not bad at all. They also kept us in line before we got to go to Toy Story.

mjaclyn

03-02-2009, 06:58 PM

The only time I like to go right when the park opens is off season and I only go to the opening of MK for DD 2 1/2. We walk (not run) straight to Fantasyland and get in line for Dumbo first thing. We spend about an hour and a half in MK and by then we've gone on everything. I try to then sechedule a breakfast at CP and DD will usually nap afterwards so we do some of the more soothing attractions like TTA or COP. I still love Disney but I will never go during peak times. Even during off season we've encountered some very rude guests but this time without the crowd mentality because it's not that crowded. I definitely think Disney should do something about crowd control whether its peak season or not.

epceddie

03-02-2009, 10:10 PM

All because of a stupid ride like TSM?

People should grow up. NO ride or attraction is worth that much trouble.

I'd be embarassed to behave like that. It's just a theme park people.

Goofster

03-03-2009, 03:32 PM

My last trip to Cedar point was last spring and I didn't encounter any bad behavior by guests. Actually, I enjoy the rope drop and "mad" run to the first attraction. I've never seen or even HEARD of anyone getting trappled at CP morning rope drop. (and for those who have never been there, running to an attraction is not breaking any rule at CP, according to guest services employee) It thins out the crowd nicely. Somehow CP guests know, that if your slow, you stay to the sides and let the faster people go ahead and clear out.
The next time your at Disney look at who will be at the front of the rope drop, A mom trying to drive two double strollers and 4 other kids on leashes, taking up the entire street. Listen close, she'll be saying "I just spent $3000 on this vacation I deserve to be first in line."
lol

I usually go to Cedar Point once a year and the last time we encountered high levels of profanity in the lines, line jumping, smoking in the lines, unsupervised teenagers and highly inappropriate clothing for a "family" park. Granted, you will see this type of behavior more often in lines for their major coasters, but its still there...

Young@Heart

03-05-2009, 05:02 PM

I'm sorry you experience such horrible behavior while you were on your vacation. :(

I know we had some similar experiences last summer, but I guess we've started to accept this as something we'll just have to deal with. We can't even take our kids to the park anymore without kids pushing them and being rude. And parents who either pay no attention to what's going on, or notice and don't care. :( So, of course, those parents are probably going to act the same way as their kids when in a similar situation.

There just seem to be way too many adults who were never taught manners.

NewDVCowner

03-05-2009, 05:31 PM

It's so easy to focus on the negative when really there are a lot of good, non-pushy people at the parks too. Last summer I was at DL with my sister. We had pins on lanyards. This little boy, about three years old, came up to us because he'd found a pin on the ground and was just sure it was one of ours. We gave him an extra backing so he could go trade it for one he'd want with a CM. It was just very refreshing to see a kid trying to do the right thing. It's easy to get caught up with how horrible some people are. I think if we focus on the people that are being generous and are doing the right thing, we'd all be happier. Just my $0.02.

goofygirl67

03-08-2009, 04:03 PM

I have always wondered if these rude and obnoxiuos people have ever worked in the service area. I have worked in the grocery business for 23 years and have noticed that alot of the same problems I see from customers at work. There have been many times a CM will apologize to me for the guest before's behavior.
I have more patience regarding these rude people since I see it everyday and by rule am not allowed to do anything about it. These days only the store manager can catch someone shoplifting and no one else.
When it comes to lines, if it's more than 20min or fast pass is not available it's no big deal.( I also live 2 hrs away). The only thing that may get on my nerve is smoking where it is not allowed (I'm allergic to the smoke) or those noisy tour groups/cheerleaders.
I try not to be there during rope drop, I usually stay late at night for EMH and don't make it to the parks till about 10am.
Overall most people do not bother me and I try to show consideration to others, especially CM's since I know what they go through.

Toad_Passenger

03-09-2009, 11:37 AM

This isn't another comment about rude behaviors, but about the "Recession?" part of the title.

My parents are currently down and they, too, are finding the parks to be a LOT more crowded than in previous years, for comparable weeks.

It's hard to believe that we're hearing about "streamlining" and "cost-cutting" when it seems the people who go year-after-year are experiencing larger crowds than normal!

cgriff

03-09-2009, 11:50 AM

Hi Toad_Passenger.

I sure wish we could find out some specific turnstile data, and data about how full the resorts are right now... It wouldn't surprise me to find out that the number of guests is actually lagging behind previous years figures. (Perhaps only a little, due to attractive vacation offers, or maybe more than a little). The larger crowds at the parks could be occuring by virtue of the cut-backs in park operation hours, essentially forcing everyone to be at the park at the same time.

Gooftroop5

03-09-2009, 02:47 PM

We had more problems with the people we were with then the people around us. We were there the Sunday after Thanksgiving.

We sent my DH to get the FP for TSM while the rest of us finished breakfast. He said the cm were watching & if someone jumped a rope they were forced to go back in line & it was a lot farther back then they would've if they stayed in line. He said it was a little hectic but he didn't have any problems.

We didn't learn off a website either to try to get there first thing. We ran into someone while doing laundry & she gave us the heads up. She also said it could get wild so just send one adult with all the tickets. Dh followed the rules & ended up with earlier FP then some of the people that were trying to "bully" their way thru.

Needless to say we not only got initial FP for early in the day they were still available after we got off the ride.

The rest of the week was just fine. No problems with other people. That was our only day & experience with TSM & DHS that trip.

Rogerwdwfan

03-09-2009, 03:44 PM

WOW I did not know things could be so crazy with the crowds during Christmas. :confused:

SamG

03-09-2009, 05:28 PM

Maleficent's Dad

03-09-2009, 06:41 PM

My parents are currently down and they, too, are finding the parks to be a LOT more crowded than in previous years, for comparable weeks.

It's hard to believe that we're hearing about "streamlining" and "cost-cutting" when it seems the people who go year-after-year are experiencing larger crowds than normal!
That was part of my OP.
We go every year during President's Week - and while we expect crowds, this year was by far, the most crowded we've ever seen it that week.

Recession, huh? :scratch:

Ksmith75

03-10-2009, 01:11 PM

Hope we dont see this when we are there the end of next month. Last year - we didnt notice to many rude people at all. Aside from parents pushing their kids to the limit and yelling at them - not to much drama. We have gone the past 2 years and I only noticed a handful of kids misbehaving - I expected lots more. The only problems we had were with a group of teens and a mean waitress....

jimsgal05

03-13-2009, 09:02 PM

But anytime Disney, or anyone else, is forced to make special accomodations for those who behave badly, the rest of us pay a price. If Disney if forced to position more cast members to handle the out of control crowd at rope drop, then there are fewer cast members some place else. Shouldn't it be basic human nature to NOT run over another person in order to gain a few places in a line, or a few minutes in a queue?

That's what I mean by "should they have to". When and why did it become commonplace and acceptable to behave so poorly.

And now that they are being tasked with attempting to control such things, they are limited in the methods they can use partly based on what the liabily lawyers advise. Just because something might make more sense, does not mean it is a choise that will best limit liability.

Even though it often seems folks make great sport out of blaming corporate giants for everything that goes wrong, and think it perfectly acceptable to attept to pick those those deep corporate pockets whether it's justified or not, it still remains our own responsibility how we behave.

It is also our own responsibility how we react to that behavior. But again, just my opinion, no one has to agree.

I totally agree with what you are saying..people should take more responsiblity for thier own actions and not place blame on "big corp" that is already trying to do the correct thing. People have changed over the years we have lost the human touch....So sad...but least there are a few of us that know how to act in a crowd setting.....:mickey:

have a good time at WDW the next time you ALL go!!!!:mickey:
Lori