VERY Disappointed in WDW Resort Pricing and Availability!!!

[Boost]

We are a fami ly of five living in Florida. We are an hour away from the parks and we visit, on average, four times a year. We have stayed on property for as long as I can remember (mostly at Moderates) and we usually book 2-3 character meals during our stays. Our family loves the World of Disney and the parks.

The week after next will be the first time in over ten years that we have stayed off property.

Why?

For over eight months, we have tried to book an AFFORDABLE WDW vacation, to no avail. Room rates have gone WAY up, availability WAY down. Don't even get me started on what stroller rentals cost now.

For a reference point, I just called WDW reservations and here is what they offered for February 20th and 21st:

Value Resorts - nothing available
Moderate Resorts - Caribbean pirate water view $230/night
Coronado - $205/night (this was $125 less than a year ago at this time!!!!)
Deluxe - WL $400/night (You must be kidding...)

CM mentioned 4 & 3 offer, which is NOT a good deal.

No FL discounts on weekends for resorts so far in 2009. Why? No explanation.

So, we are going to stay at Lighthouse Key, which is five minutes from the parks.
<snip>

For a SUBSTANTIALLY lower rate per night than WDW offers, we are getting a two bedroom villa with a kitchen that has a spa, a great pool area and amenities that rival what WDW can offer right now. The only thing that we don't get is the "WDW immersion", which, if they keep it up, will evaporate along with Florida residents' rates on affordable accommodations.

I realize that times are tough, but you don't weather a recession by penalizing folks who live a short drive from your parks and who visit multiple times per year.

[buzznwoodysmom]

That weekend is the weekend before Mardi Gras. I haven't been, but I have family and friends who have been during Mardi Gras and they all claimed the parks were way more crowded than expected. That could be the reason for limited availability.

[JPL]

That's also during President's Week and alot of schools in the North have a Winter Break during that time.

[EeyoresBestFriend]

I feel for you. I also hold out a bit of hope that maybe someone from there will read some of these forums and realize that they can get some ideas for improvement from them and the people who love Disney.
I totally agree that the 'locals' are what keeps you going when times get tough ~ they shouldn't mess with them. Unfortunately, things have been good for so long that I think they have forgotten that fact. So now as they scramble to keep profits up, we pay the price as they cut things out of the 'magic' of the park rather than realizing that if they had been more loyal to the locals, things might not be as bad.:soapbox:
From my side of the border, we get to deal with the frustration that many things are for 'US residents only' and we are unable to have the same benefits, by the sole fact that we have one color less in our flag.

[Magic Smiles]

I don't think that they are 'penalizing' you. Couldn't just be that they are sold out of the cheaper rooms, after all you are looking to book hotels only 2 weeks away. I booked a trip last year 3 weeks in advance and had to pay full price.
I do not know why 8 months or even 6 months ago they would not of had a better deal though.
The buy 4 nights, get 3 nights free is a pretty good deal IMHO. It is like getting a 43% discount.

[nickv1025]

I completely agree that the prices are bordering out-of-controlness.

But I disagree on the availability.

There is no way there would be rooms available at value resorts three weeks before one of the busiest weeks of the year.

[lulu'smom]

I'm not sure what you expect Disney to do. You are going at a very busy time of the year, with very little notice. Do you think they should hold back rooms for locals and offer them at a discount? That wouldn't make good business sense when they can fill the rooms at a pretty high rate.

[big blue and hairy]

I feel your pain, but that is a really busy weekend. DW and I are going for Valentine's Day and we found avaialbility a while back at the values, but for $20 more, we booked the Dolphin.

The up side of living this close is you can go pretty much whenever you want. The down side is, since you can go whenever, you don't make your reservations as far in advance, whether for hotel or dining. It makes it harder to get the reservation you want.

I pick out certain times of year that matter more to us (birthdays, anniversary, Christmas...) and book room and dining way ahead.

:sulley:

[TinkerbellT421]

isnt that week considered Peak season? everyone is right so far. That time of the year is super busy and JPL is right about up north. That is considered February vacation up here when all the schools in RI and most of Mass have the entire week off. And I know a ton of people that go down that time of year so they dont have to take kids out of school. Peak season in Disney is always expensice. I bet if you checked availability for a two weekends after that it will probably be half that price. Maybe not sure but almost positive it would be half that price.

[cgriff]

What others have said about your dates of choice coinciding with Mardi Gras and President's Day is true. Holiday weekends need to be booked waayyyy in advance + rates typically bump up.

CSR was $330.00 per night last year? Wow, what time of year was that? Christmas?

[Boost]

Thanks for all of the input, folks.

Cgriff - as far as the CSR rate, when we called last year at this time, there was plenty of availability and yes, the rate was $125 per night.

[Boost]

Just to be clear on my experience in the past few months, I am acutely aware that the recession has hit almost every industry very hard. I know that businesses need to adjust their pricing up or down according to supply and demand. That said, when the price per day for a rented double stroller in the parks went from $18/day to $30/day last year and when a room classified as "moderate" traditionally was $100-$125 night several months ago and they are now $205-$250/night, those are unreasonable increases!

I want to make clear that we have tried to set reservations throughout the year and these increases are constant whenever we have called. We have tried very hard to book rooms for off season periods and whenever we have called, there never seems to be info on FL resident rates. Rival parks are closing certain parts of their parks. Maybe in 3-5 months, WDW will "get it".

[big blue and hairy]

The farther out you book, the more likely you are to get better rates. Except, of course, if you're booking so far out that the Fl resident rates aren't yet out. I've found this annoying also. My suggestion would be, if you do not want to watch the rates constantly, use Magical Journeys. If you book before the Fl rates come out, you'll pay the deposit based on the higher rates, but MJ will be all over the rates when they become available.

:sulley:

[Boost]

Thanks, BB&H!!!

[CaptainJessicaSparrow]

And here is where the hospitality classes pay off. Glad to know I am not wasting my very expensive tuition. :D

Hotels only have so many rooms, and of those rooms, they only allocate a certain number for various discounts because they are a business and in this business, you can never make up a empty room EVER. Hospitality, (hotels and airlines specifically) has a severely high perishability, because they make their money on a day to day basis. If they don't make their money today, they will never get a chance to make it up again. There is only one July 2nd every year, there is only one September 15th, every year and an empty room on that day or an empty seat on that plane is gone forever. Restaurants operate on tables, theme parks on turnstile clicks. A lower check today at a restaurant can be made up tomorrow from a banquet.

Back to the topic - Let's take WL. It has 729 standard rooms (not including DVC Villas). Of those 729 rooms, they will only allocate and reserve say maybe 50 for the discount. Once those 50 are gone at the discounted rate, then the resort will show full availability, at that rate. There will still be rooms available for the full price rate, but not the discount you are looking for and thus, have to look at other rooms. Another thing is how they divide those 50 rooms. They would have maybe 10 for the standard room, and 40 for the water/garden views. Why? Because the water/garden views are more expensive but most people will think along the lines of "Oh, well, I am saving XX% so spending a little extra on a nicer view is the same as paying for a standard room at full price."

Hotels will also start reducing the number of rooms reserved for a discount if not many people booked within a certain time frame. If they have 50 rooms and only 10 have been booked within say, a month of check-in, they will gradually reduce that number because they can make more money on the rooms giving them to full-paying customers because like I said, empty rooms are lost forever.

Also, a lot of times resorts won't operate at full occupancy. If you only anticipate having 60 % occupied, no need to staff for 100% and use more energy, pay roll, and supplies expenses for rooms that aren't going to be used to add to the loss of the room. So with 729 rooms and only allocating 60%, that leaves 437 rooms. See how that would also affect the availability of rooms?

So, yeah, I hope that helps you get a better understanding of how this industry works. I love my school so much. It also means that I am a horrible customer to have though.

Kinda like doctors. They always make the worst patients.

[goofy78]

good information captain! it sounds like those classes are paying off. :mickey:

[CaptSmee]

Sorry to hear about your troubles...not to rub it in or anything, but the past year we have nabbed some FANTASTIC rates at AKL ($199 savannah room), CBR ($109), and WL ($179). Lower than what we have paid in past years even. They were all with AP rates. :mickey: We were able to get them all mostly because of Intercot.

[Mousemates]

good information captain! it sounds like those classes are paying off. :mickey:

I whole-heartedly agree.

[CaptainJessicaSparrow]

Thanks! I'm glad to see they weren't a total waste of time. A lot of it is just stuff that the general public doesn't think about. When a discount is offered, they typically think the entire hotel is at that rate and wonder how so many rooms could be booked already. But in order for the hotels to make money, they have to have some at the discount and the majority at full-price. The 4-3 deal is also tricky because they are charging a higher rack rate to compensate for the difference.

[TinkerbellT421]

Great Job CaptainJessica! :thumbsup: That was very insightful. I really enjoyed reading that and understanding how it works a little better. THose classes are paying off! Awesome info thanks again! :thumbsup:

[SBETigg]

Going offsite isn't an option for us. I'm paying the prices for the convenience and pleasure of staying onsite, and apparently a lot of others are with me on that. Sorry for your disappointment.

[RocknBev]

You have received some good suggestions and advice here thus far. I was frustrated in July when I tried to book CR for January and the only rooms available were suites at $800 per night. I understand your pain. I would suggest you try booking through Magical Journeys. Terrisue got me the impossible in January just weeks prior to the Marathon weekend when I needed a value resort for my son. She also kept me informed of discounts on rooms that I booked when they came available.

[Aurora]

Jessica, I get your point about discounts and lost opportunities to fill rooms.

However, I think Boost's point is that Disney LOST him/her as a customer because of the room prices. Therefore there is at least ONE room that won't be booked at full price because Boost will be staying off-site. Revenue lost.

I'm not a business person and I don't know Disney's complete business model. I do know that despite all of our willingness to throw every hard-earned penny we can at Disney, there is a breaking point.

So if rooms are not filled by a few weeks beforehand, why not discount them to Florida residents? It doesn't seem Disney does that, which is the part that doesn't make sense to me.

[Altair]

Another thing is how they divide those 50 rooms. They would have maybe 10 for the standard room, and 40 for the water/garden views. Why? Because the water/garden views are more expensive but most people will think along the lines of "Oh, well, I am saving XX% so spending a little extra on a nicer view is the same as paying for a standard room at full price."



This practice is getting awfully close to being a "Bait and Switch" if it hasn't already crossed the line.:(

[blondeinbrandon]

BOOST -((((HUGS))))
I feel your pain! We are in the same boat completely! I live in Tampa and my family of 4 have been AP holders and go at least once every two months. We used to go over on a Thursday and check out on Sunday. We always got Mod rooms between $95-$125 most times of the year.
WDW is no longer discounting rooms for FL res over weekends at all. We used to check in on Thurs and keep that rate. No longer.
Basically we have yet to go in 09 and usually we have gone and are planning a March and a May trip. Not sure now. Our passes are up and we haven't even talked about renewing yet. We were planning a May trip for sure, but the deals just aren't there. 4/3 deal is not good for us.
So anyway I know what you are going through and Disney will loose it's Florida base if Floridians can't afford to spend the night there!:ill:

[BrerGnat]

The 4-3 deal is also tricky because they are charging a higher rack rate to compensate for the difference.

They certainly are! They are sneakily charging people the weekend rate for the 4 paying days...most people aren't noticing it. I did, though. But, still, over the course of 7 days, it works out to be a reasonable rate for Peak season, which is why we booked it. Still overpriced though, but what can you do?

[CaptainJessicaSparrow]

This practice is getting awfully close to being a "Bait and Switch" if it hasn't already crossed the line.:(

It's not though. They have rooms at the rate they advertise but they only have so many at that rate. The numbers I gave were an example. A 700 room hotel probably would put maybe 10-15% of those at the discount rate (about 100 rooms). It will also so that it will be for a standard view in the fine print.

Going back to discount the rooms closer to the date, rather than increase the price, airlines do the same thing. Check out prices for an airline for two weeks from now, and then check out a ticket for tomorrow. There will be a huge difference because they are trying to minimize the losses from other unsold tickets (and trying to encourage people to book in advance and lock them in early).

[Aurora]

Airlines are a bit different because they can charge people a higher price closer to the date, knowing they will get that price when a short-term flight is a necessity for work, family or other reasons.

However, a vacation is never a necessity (all evidence to the contrary). No one is forced to go to Disney World and thus forced to pay a premium. And even if it's a last-minute trip, there are many other, more economical hotel choices.

But it all comes down to the old supply and demand. If Disney can keep filling the rooms with high-paying customers, they don't have to keep rates low. It does sound, though, as if demand may be slipping.

[joonyer]

. . . They are sneakily charging people the weekend rate for the 4 paying days...most people aren't noticing it. I did, though. But, still, over the course of 7 days, it works out to be a reasonable rate for Peak season, which is why we booked it. Still overpriced though, but what can you do?

By economic definition, it isn't overpriced if someone is willing to pay it. What can you do? Well, like boost did, you can refuse to pay their price by choosing a competitor, or not purchasing at all. As long as people are willing to pay a price, there is no reason for a business to reduce prices. Simple supply and demand economics. Complaining about high prices while still paying them will not cause a business to reduce its prices.

I would love to stay at the Poly on every trip to WDW. It's my favorite resort atmosphere. But I choose not to pay the extra high prices it would coast for us to stay there. We could stay 30 days at a value for the price of 7 days at Poly. (30 days at WDW; wouldn't that be fun!)
But I don't think Disney has any trouble filling up the Poly at those high rates, so I don't have any expectations of Disney lowering the price to get me to book there.

[Kenny1113]

To the OP, I was looking into a trip in the begining of March around DS4's bday and when I priced it out it was WAY high ( more than I would pay being FL resident) due to Peak season. Because of a post on this site;), I was able to change my dates around and was able to stay at AKL for $150/nite. We just got back last week. I have stayed off site before and I think you'll still have a blast and who knows maybe you'll decide that is what you'll do from now on. Enjoy:mickey:

[playdead88]

capt. jessica you rock - this is the way i see it -disney is expensive - we save all year and plan all year to go - if for one minute i thought i couldn't afford to go i would wait and save and go another time - we love disney too much to not go exactly how we are used to going - i don't think that any trip to disney could be a bad trip but i have a certain expectation of how my week at disney should be and i would be more than willing to put off a trip for a year in order to save up the $

[MarkC]

Disney is a business. And we live in a capitalist country (its supposed to be anyway). What Disney is doing is no different than Marriott, Hilton or any of the other chains do with their rooms and pricing. Boost, just consider yourself lucky that you are only an hour away. We have to plan our trips out months in advance and spend an extra $800+ in airfare for a family of four just to get there. Then add the cost of everything else on top of it. So while I'm sure you're disappointed, consider everyone else. Most people never get to go to Disney once in their lifetime, let alone even consider going multiple times. I guess I'm a person that looks at the glass half full so my opinion may be different than others. Mark

[caryrae]

That said, when the price per day for a rented double stroller in the parks went from $18/day to $30/day last year


Just curious, you say you are an hour from the Parks, is that driving? If you do drive how come you don't bring your own stroller to save on stroller rentals?

[Disney_Barbie]

Sorry to hear about your troubles...not to rub it in or anything, but the past year we have nabbed some FANTASTIC rates at AKL ($199 savannah room), CBR ($109), and WL ($179). Lower than what we have paid in past years even. They were all with AP rates. :mickey: We were able to get them all mostly because of Intercot.

I agree completely! We've already had great rates and coming up we have one of the CHEAPEST but also MOST LUXERIOUS Disney trips to date. I also don't mean to rub it in or anything, I just ENTIRELY disagree that rates are not good. I just don't understand why you haven't been able to find a better deal, is timing the issue??? We always book 6-8 months in advance and have always landed an amazing deal. Like others here, I sugest MJ

[Boost]

Wow...thanks for all of the info and input!!

Thanks, Aurora and MarriedByTheMouse for your support!

OK, let me clarify a few things:

MarkC - Yes, we do live an hour away from the parks. Yes, we do consider ourselves VERY fortunate for that geographic reality, as it allows us to visit our favorite place in the world at will. I see your point about folks who live far away and visit maybe once a year vs. families in Florida who can visit more often. My point is that our family typically takes "minnievacations" (2-3 days at a time x 3-4 times/year) as opposed to one vacation a year for 7-10 days in length. What I was saying was that we ALWAYS book far in advance (6-12 months, usually) and within the last few months, we have noticed rates out of the range that we typically have found reasonable and we have also noticed that onsite options are few. Several times I have called to book rates (in advance) and my choice is a room at $800 - $1000 a night or....nothing. Values - booked. Moderates - booked. I have heard that resorts are closing parts of their buildings and I have asked that question, although no one at central reservations knows anything about it...hmmmm...

To answer the stroller question:

Yes, we do have a double stroller; however, OUT OF CONSIDERATION TO THOSE ON WDW BUSES, we typically choose to leave it at home. We have paid many, many times for WDW strollers (we have two boys, 6 and 4, plus a 6 month old daughter), but we will bring our own stroller now.

We will stay on property again. Not for this trip, though.

My perspective on this is that I feel that this was a lose-lose on WDW's part and on ours. We lost out by not staying on property and enjoying everything that comes with doing so. WDW lost by not getting two room nights at reasonable rates for Florida residents; they lost by not getting our revenue from several meals that we will have at Lighthouse Key Resort off property; and they lost from ancillary revenue that we would have spent by staying at a WDW resort (gift shop, boat rentals, video arcade, etc.).

Does this clarify our situation?

[ILive4Disney]

I have to agree...as a Florida resident and AP holder we would make the trip up once a month in previous years..we haven't been in over 4 months..the AP rates are NEVER offered on the weekends it seems?? It doesn't seem to matter if it is last minute or not...the resort prices are just so much higher than they used to be. What Disney doesn't seem to "get" is that they are losing the money we would spend in the park and I can only predict that resident AP holder will hesitate to renew if things stay the same. As a side note...Using Magical Journeys is great..I do it whenever I can...however you can only use them if the stay is 3 nights or more...so when I plan a weekend trip, I am on my own. :(:(:(

[Boost]

That's a good point. If AP holders stop renewing, (on the surface) that looks like a tremendous opportunity lost.

If a family of four drops their AP's, that is what, $1200? Plus accommodations at let's say four times a year at at least another $1400 per stay on average after the discount, plus F&B in the parks at another $1500 per stay, plus the extras at $500. That is almost $5000 lost from just one AP family. One has to wonder how many families out there are now just simply outpriced from their WDW trips because of the higher prices, no weekend rates for FL residents and offers like the 4 & 3 free deal that many on this thread have stated is simply not a good value.

:mickey:

[nifty48]

I agree with Boost and ILive4Disney. I'm also a Florida resident and live about 45 minutes from Disney. My DD, DGS, DGD and I plan 2 - 4 weekends a year at Disney with some day trips also. We usually go Friday to Sunday. Currently the resort offer is only discounted Sunday thru Thursday for Passholders and Florida residents which means we have to pay rack rates for the weekends. That means we won't do a weekend this spring which really disappoints me.:( We do have Seasonal Passes so we will do a few day trips but it will definitely curb our visits to Disney. We also will seriously look at our options before we renew our passes in September.

Don't get me wrong we have enjoyed the benefits of living close to Disney and feel we have been very lucky to take advantage of the resort discounts offered in the past. We're just hoping that we will have weekend resort discount offers in the future so that we can enjoy more weekends at Disney. :)

[JoDisney]

Nifty48, We live in Florida and agree with you. We had passes, too. They just expired, but we did not renew. We may just go once a year to Disney and use the Florida Play 4, since we cannot get the discounts on the weekends.