Who's a Jedi and who isn't?

[alphamommy]

DH, DD, and I just had something bordering on a religious discussion regarding who is a Jedi and who is not.

We are watching "Return of the Jedi", and just watched the part where Yoda dies. DH commented that, for a while, there would be no Jedi (since Yoda said Luke would not be a Jedi until he faced Vader). Later in the conversation, Yoda says, "When I am gone, the last of the Jedi you will be."

The debate point is this: was Vader still a Jedi at this point? He ends up saving Luke at the end, so we see that there's still some good in him. Does his turn to the Dark Side negate his Jedi-ness? DH says yes, DD and I say not really.

Just curious for other opinions.

(We wouldn't be having this discussion if the University of Michigan wasn't having such a bad season!)

[brownie]

Here's my take:

Luke was a Jedi; facing Vader would complete his training. What level of Jedi we really don't know. I would think that in the time of the Republic, anyone accepted by the Jedi order was a Jedi. There were levels such as knight and master, but they were all Jedi.

I don't think you can be a Jedi and a Sith at the same time. I believe Luke turned him back to the light side of the force before Vader died, turning him from a Sith back to a Jedi. I don't think we would have seen him at the end with Yoda and Obi Wan Kenobi if he hadn't returned to the light side prior to his death.

[ibrowse17]

Dooku and Anakin were both Jedi that turned to the dark side and became Sith Lords. I am sure that Lord Maul would have been idenified and brought into the Jedi order had Palpatine not hidden him. I have seen nothing that says you could not turn from a Sith back into a Jedi in the same manner. Anakin was the "chosen one", and did end up destroying the Sith which brought the force back into balance. I would consider that no small task, and worthy of him being reclaimed by the Jedi. If facing Vader was good enough for Luke to become a Jedi, I would think that Vader destroying the Emperor would be a step up. " Tell your sister, you were right", Anakin says to Luke about him still having good in him. As the force it self did not vanish, future Jedi and Sith are sure to follow. As Lucas said, Star Wars is a story as much about the redemption of Anakin Skywalker as anything else. Not that I know much about this...:thumbsup:

[NotaGeek]

:faint:

[Disneypixie513]

I wondered that for along time too..
But my opinion is that you can't be a Sith and Jedi at the same time. So when Anakin became Vader, he was a Sith. Luke was Jedi once he faced Vader. But once Anakin (Yes Anakin! I definately think that wasn't Vader) saved Luke frm the Emporor, He was no longer a Sith, and had returned to the light/good side.
And as far as the Chosen One thing..He was the One..It just took a while. :D

Ahh..That's one of my favorite parts in the whol series. :thumbsup:

[diz_girl]

It is debatable as to Luke's status as a Jedi, as he is not a Knight until after Yoda dies. But to me, after Yoda dies, there are still Jedi, as Luke is a Jedi Padawan, like Yoda was a Jedi Master. Like brownie wrote, once you are accepted as a Jedi, normally as a Jedi Youngling, then you are a Jedi.

As for Darth Vader, I agree that he couldn't be a Jedi when he was a Sith. Once he acted to destroy the Emperor, he was once again a Jedi.

So when Star Wars IV, A New Hope begins, there are two Jedi in existence, Obi Wan and Yoda (although we aren't introduced to Yoda until The Empire Strikes Back). Obi Wan decides to train Luke, so Luke is basically a Jedi Padawan and then there were three Jedi in existence. Obi Wan dies at the end of the movie and we're back to two. Then Yoda dies and we're back to one. Then Darth Vader destroys the Emperor and becomes a Jedi again, so they're briefly at two again, until Anakin dies and we're back to one again.

[comicguy]

In some of the books that were written with the Star wars characters that take place between the movies and after Return of the Jedi, There are still some Jedi in hiding, some have "fallen" (read as lost much of their abilities, not sure if it was ever fully explained, probably some sort of suvivor's guilt:confused:)

[gueli]

OK here is my take-
1st - vader -aka anakin- brought the force into balance, as the Jedi had superior numbers and members as compared to the sith. bringing it back into balance would mean the 2 sides of the force would be equal.
later, once again anakin destroyed the most powerful sith, once again bringing everything back into balance. Thanks to his son, regaining much of what he had lost. Yes, he returned to his roots, found redemption - and thus was no longer a sith lord.

Once Luke began his journey- once he started to be trained, he was a Jedi. When he faced vader the 1st time- is when he conquered his greatest fear- and thus his training was complete.
:mickey:

[DizneyFreak2002]

Vader is what they call a Dark Jedi, not a Jedi in the sense that Yoda was referring to...