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zebradome17
10-16-2008, 04:38 PM
Have you ever been on a ride and have to be evacuated because it broke down?
I was on TOT in august and they had to come and get us and send us out a secret door and down the 'express elevator':coaster:

bwk99
10-16-2008, 05:24 PM
Tomorrowland Transit Authority broke down on me one time. Which wasn't too bad since it was only 75 outside and when it stopped we had a nice view of Tomorrland. We were led down the track and out a door in the part where you can see the Buzz Lightyear ride... down the stairs and out the side of a building..

Oh, and all day fastpass for all of Magic Kingdom..

disneymom15
10-16-2008, 05:28 PM
Big Thunder Mountain broke down on us once and we had to be escorted off.

cal5755
10-16-2008, 05:31 PM
We had to walk off of Test Trak.... down lots of stairs lol... that was September of 07..the only time my dad has come on vacation with us. It also rained almost everyday hahahaha...Dad can't go anymore!!

joelkfla
10-16-2008, 05:36 PM
Test Track is the only one I can think of. It was in the "lateral force" turns sections, just before the narrowly averted crash with the truck.

I got stuck at the top of TOT once. The work lights came on, and everyone on the elevator was expecting to be escorted off. But all of the sudden, the car dropped! With no warning! And no sound cues!

They got the ride going again, but didn't tell us, the guests on the ride. Boy, that was the scariest ride ever on TOT.

Ian
10-16-2008, 05:47 PM
Never had to walk off a ride in Disney World, but in Disneyland we got stuck on Alice in Wonderland and had to walk out of there.

That was cool! :cool:

Simba's Mom
10-16-2008, 05:50 PM
When ToT first opened, the first time DH and DS rode it, the elevator stopped with the doors opened. After waiting about 10 seconds, the doors shut and the elevator lowered very slowly. DH and DS thought it was part of this new ride, until a CM pried the doors open, took them downstairs a backway and they got to ride again immediately. That's when DH and DS found out what the ride REALLY was like.
I've had it happen just once, on UoE. Just before the end the tape broke or something, so we all had to get out of the benches and leave, with an unfinished show on our minds. Wierd!
I've been stuck on Spaceship Earth for up to 1/2 hour, but never evacuated.

Polynesian Dweller
10-16-2008, 05:55 PM
Space Mountain for us. Its happened a couple of times. Waited in the car until a CM came who took us down via the cat walks. Actually quite interesting to see the mountain with the lights on. Just a lot of steel really.

chrisb26
10-16-2008, 05:58 PM
I have only been escorted off the ride once due to it breaking down. That was the Universe of Energy we were in the last room and they had just asked the final Jeopardy question when the ride broke :D So the CM told us the answer "Brain Power" ;) and we had to go out one of the side exits.

I was also on TOT when it broke down. We had gone up to the first door where we see the people and the window flying at us. Then the doors closed and we were stuck in the pitch black for 5 minutes. It was pretty strange my friend got scared since she had never been on before and didn't know this wasn't normal. I told her the ride was broke she thought I was messing with her. Finally the lights came on and we very slowly came back down and they had to go below the ride to open the restraints and we were let on a different elevator :D

biodtl
10-16-2008, 06:06 PM
Just last week, we had to walk off TSM - thank goodness they gave us re-entry passes!

tracibell
10-16-2008, 06:08 PM
My father, sister, and I got stuck on Spaceship Earth for about half an hour. Believe me though, it felt like SO much longer. We had to listen to the same thing over and over and over again. My poor mom was stuck outside with my younger brother and sister waiting for us. She was so angry when we finally got off of that ride. This was a few years ago.

DH and I got stuck on Test Track for about fifteen minutes this past June. We were in the cooling section. We were laughing because the rest of my family got stuck in the car in the hot section.

Can you imagine getting trapped on It's A Small World? I love that ride but I don't know if I'd like staying in the same spot for half an hour listening to the song over and over and over again. Haha. :silly:

paragon
10-16-2008, 07:21 PM
On our last trip ( just passed, Sept 27- Oct 4 ) we had to get off of Toy Story Mania, we were about 3/4 through it when it stopped. ( after waiting in the 40 minute stand by line ) luckily, we already gotten fastpasses, and on the way out the door we were given return ride passes.

I also had to walk off of ENERGY in Epcot a few years ago too- that was weird, we walked past all of the dinosaurs and plants.

mainemajor
10-16-2008, 07:58 PM
Last August it was Rockin Roller Coaster that we had to walk out of when it broke.

Back in 1977 or 78 I was stuck in It's a Small World for about a half hour. It was pure torture, listening to that song over and over and over and over again. I like the ride, but to this day I need to force myself to ride IASW.

JasonH
10-16-2008, 08:44 PM
Once a few years back I was on HM and they had to escort us out. My fam and I were stuck in the graveyard scene. They had to turn the lights on of course and so it was pretty cool to see what the "ghosts" are really like. :thumbsup:

Simba's Mom
10-16-2008, 08:49 PM
I have only been escorted off the ride once due to it breaking down. That was the Universe of Energy we were in the last room and they had just asked the final Jeopardy question when the ride broke :D So the CM told us the answer "Brain Power" ;) and we had to go out one of the side exits.



That's exactly where it broke down on me. Either it did twice, or could we have been there at the same time?

Mad About Mickey
10-16-2008, 08:51 PM
Back in 1977 or 78 I was stuck in It's a Small World for about a half hour. It was pure torture, listening to that song over and over and over and over again. I like the ride, but to this day I need to force myself to ride IASW.

:ditto: I feel your pain.
Same thing happened to me back in the 80's. The continous song loop got to me as well. To keep from going completely mad I started counting the change in the water. For a while there I cringed anytime we walked past the IASW entrance. It wasn't till our children were born that I could bring myself to ride it again.

kemps@wdw
10-16-2008, 09:24 PM
Never been escorted off of any attractions, but we have been sitting on a few broke-down before. HM sitting backwards "falling out the window" for 10-15 min, Splash Mt approaching the final fall (almost to the top) 10-15 min. Rcc..wasn't actually on the ride, but waiting in the "alley" area to board. Ride vehicles and music all stopped. From our view point we could see right up into the initial take-off tunnel when the lights came on. I can only imagine what the people up IN the ride were experiencing. Those of us who wanted to leave were allowed out the "chicken" exit and given a return rider pass.

Sinewiz
10-17-2008, 12:41 AM
Only once, we had to be escorted off of Kali River Rapids a few years back. Everyone was jammed up at the very end of the ride. Obviously huh? Where else could the ride breakdown. LOL

Boojum
10-17-2008, 04:04 AM
We were riding the Blue Line in Magic Kingdom, and we got stuck in the tunnel where the City of Tomorrow model is.

Problem was this: there were brushfires in the area, and lots of smoke floating around the Magic Kingdom. That tunnel was just sucking in smoke, making it very unpleasant. We had to be walked off the ride by Castmembers with flashlights.

VWL Mom
10-17-2008, 07:41 AM
Space Mountain for us. Its happened a couple of times. Waited in the car until a CM came who took us down via the cat walks. Actually quite interesting to see the mountain with the lights on. Just a lot of steel really.
:ditto:

prttynpnk
10-17-2008, 10:20 AM
On our last trip ( just passed, Sept 27- Oct 4 ) we had to get off of Toy Story Mania, we were about 3/4 through it when it stopped. ( after waiting in the 40 minute stand by line ) luckily, we already gotten fastpasses, and on the way out the door we were given return ride passes.



I think we might have been on at the same time as you were! They even brought out little step stools for us...

Imagineer1981
10-17-2008, 11:23 AM
I used to have to escort guests off of Space Mountain all the time. They always loved it

cardinalsfan_98
10-17-2008, 12:40 PM
This past May, DD and I had to be escorted off Splash. We got stopped just before the final drop. We were able to get out of the log easily, but the poor souls stuck on the incline had quite a struggle to evacuate their logs. They took us backstage and actually saw the area on KTTK tour. Pretty neat for DD since she was only 9.

Zawadi
10-17-2008, 12:54 PM
On our last trip ( just passed, Sept 27- Oct 4 ) we had to get off of Toy Story Mania, we were about 3/4 through it when it stopped. ( after waiting in the 40 minute stand by line ) luckily, we already gotten fastpasses, and on the way out the door we were given return ride passes.

It's a small world and not MK's IASW ride! We were escorted off TSMM Thurs 02 Oct (same as you?). We'd made it to the "rings" game when the ride went to "Hold Time" for a while then finally shut down. The return passes were used for our last ride on Sat 04 Oct, before leaving for the airport, when the stand by line was 60mins.

elmjimmlm
10-17-2008, 01:24 PM
We were stuck in HM for a long time but were not escorted off...We just sat and waited while the man in the coffin pushed the lid up and down...When we reached the end my DS was ready to get out of there and fell on the moving platform...:blush:

paragon
10-17-2008, 01:59 PM
It's a small world and not MK's IASW ride! We were escorted off TSMM Thurs 02 Oct (same as you?). We'd made it to the "rings" game when the ride went to "Hold Time" for a while then finally shut down. The return passes were used for our last ride on Sat 04 Oct, before leaving for the airport, when the stand by line was 60mins.

No, it happened to us on Friday morning. And our return tix were dated good until Oct 10. I was going to give them to someone in line, but we decided to ride again that day. it was fun.

Stich8818
10-17-2008, 02:05 PM
I too was stuck on the HM for a very long time, But we got stuck in the seance room with Madame Leotta..That was pretty cool. I was like looking at evey nook and cranny of the room and just taking it all in.

Zawadi
10-17-2008, 03:17 PM
My DW has just reminded me of a couple more incidents that occurred during our last visit:

Whilst riding HM we were stopped for about 5 minutes just before the dining room scene - suddenly a cast member (in Halloween costume) appeared out of the darkness, running along the side of the carriages wielding a torch. It certainly enhanced the scariness of the ride:scared:

The other ride to break down was not a theme park ride, but the Disney Transport bus from MK to AKL. We coasted to a stop on the grass verge just outside the MK parking toll booths - luckily a replacement bus was with us within 10 minutes, which was welcomed as it was the middle of the day and we had no aircon.

zebradome17
10-19-2008, 08:36 AM
I thought of another one. When i was on the three caballeros in mexico the boat stopped just as we were at the final bit when they werea saying goodbye. I'll never forget how to say goodbye in spanish again!:wave:

MickeysEars
10-19-2008, 03:23 PM
ok, I don't know if it was the same at DW but at DL the part of the People Mover when you are in the tunnel that is actually a movie screen, you all know what I am talking about right??? Ok back in the late 70's early 80's it was race cars, they moved fast, you moved slow but the illussion was you were going much faster...we got stuck in the race cars for 25 min, BEFORE they turned off the race cars. then we were there for 15 more min before they escorted us off. THEN, they changed the room to TRON in the 80's and it happened again but not as long. It was so loud!

Daisy'sMom
10-19-2008, 03:33 PM
Space Mountain! Loved seeing it with the lights on.

Zawadi
10-19-2008, 03:41 PM
Just a thought:

Has anyone experienced a monorail breakdown?

How would you get off it, if not in a station?

Belle619
10-20-2008, 01:41 PM
We had to be escorted off of Dinosaur on our last trip. At first, we were glad that it was at the beginning of the ride, right before going through the big doors - but then we realized that we weren't high on the priority list because of this. The CM's had evacuated all the people who were standing in line, and then the CM's ran into the ride to get those people out, and we sat, and sat and sat. :bored:

It was a little concerning because we were strapped into our seats and no CM's were left around us - it was a good 25 min (which felt like forever) before we were unstrapped and helped out of our vehicle.

And its amazing how your mind can start to freak you out in situations like those - the woman in front of us was looking for her nail clippers to try and cut the seatbelt! Luckily, the CM came over before she did anything crazy!!!

disneychick62
10-20-2008, 02:45 PM
we got stuck on tot once. it was freaky....right where the mirror floors are. they made us get off and go down a real elevator...:mad:

Zawadi
10-20-2008, 02:59 PM
It was a little concerning because we were strapped into our seats and no CM's were left around us - it was a good 25 min (which felt like forever) before we were unstrapped and helped out of our vehicle.

And its amazing how your mind can start to freak you out in situations like those -

A wait of 25 mins before they release you - this gets you thinking, what if there is a real emergency, i.e. fire in the building. Do they have a master release switch that unlocks all the restraints?

ColtsDonald
10-20-2008, 03:28 PM
Has anyone been stuck on Peter Pan's Flight?
I wonder how they would get you out of there. Most rides would be easy - open the car door, or climb over, and walk to the exit.

rmsongs
10-22-2008, 03:12 PM
We had the exact same experience on UofE; Final Jeopardy, "Brain Power", out the side door. On the same trip, 3 of my kids were riding SE when it broke down. They were at the very top of the ride when it stopped. After they sat there for a while, someone came and told them they were trying to get the ride started again. Some time later, the lights came on and a few CMs showed up to lead them off. They had to walk down a series of stairs and ramps to get out.

CaptainJessicaSparrow
10-22-2008, 08:47 PM
Well, I was at AK and Studios today and noticed some things broken.

Nothing unusual - Yeti in B Mode, the Brachiosaurus at Dinosaur was darkened without the light, the main Carnotaur at the end didn't move.

Fantasmic was missing elements.

No parking attendants.

As for how to evacuate some rides - Peter Pan would be cycled out, meaning they would continue moving the ride to get the guests to an exit point.

If there is a real emergency like a fire, you probably wouldn't know it since a lot of attractions use auto-release methods, cut power, or have fire walls, extensive sprinkler systems. Obviously, the ones closest to the fire would be evacuated first or they'd pull in CM's from a nearby attraction to assist.

FaithTrustPixieDust
10-23-2008, 09:43 AM
Has anyone been stuck on Peter Pan's Flight?


We got stuck on it last year. Everything shut down and we sat there in pitch dark for several minutes!

We had almost put DD6 and DS4 in a boat together, so mommy and daddy could ride together. We were so glad we didn't do that . . . they would have freaked out without a grown up with them!!

Anyway, they did not evacuate . . .we just sat and waited until they fixed it. Not sure what they would do if they did have to evacuate!!! That would be tricky.

My husband was stuck right in front of a Hidden Mickey, so he was able to get a good picture of it. (usually moving too fast)

blondeinbrandon
10-23-2008, 11:21 AM
We got stuck a few years ago on Test Track. The bad part was we were outside going around the sharp bank. Stopped. I was on the right side trying to hold my weight off my son. It was terrible. but it only lasted about 5 minutes. The cars were brought in slowly, turns out another car had caught fire and they had to remove it from the ride. They just let us stay in the car and ride again, without the stopping! :mickey:

floogen6
10-23-2008, 03:48 PM
Kali River Rapids and we were stuck for 20 minutes before they drained the ride and walked us out the secret backway (kinda cool to see all the behind the scenes stuff) got a fast pass that was good for the rest of the day for all in our party

MickeysEars
10-23-2008, 04:38 PM
We got stuck a few years ago on Test Track. The bad part was we were outside going around the sharp bank. Stopped. I was on the right side trying to hold my weight off my son. It was terrible. but it only lasted about 5 minutes. The cars were brought in slowly, turns out another car had caught fire and they had to remove it from the ride. They just let us stay in the car and ride again, without the stopping! :mickey:

caught fire??!!?? Can you imagine being in that car?

MickeyMousse
10-23-2008, 04:50 PM
Always seems to happen to us on The Universe of Energy...3 times to be exact! We've stopped going since we feel like a curse.:thedolls:

*Pepper*
10-25-2008, 06:56 AM
Summer of last year....Pirates of the Caribbean broke down. We sat in the boats about 15 minutes, the lights were turned on, and then walking through the water, in hip-waders, was one of the CMs. One by one she put the boats in place so we could step out and then exit through a door. We ended up behind the building in the back lot and had to walk around. Pretty cool experience!

Kenny1113
10-25-2008, 07:54 PM
About 15 years ago at DL we were stuckon Pirates, lights came on and we were escorted though backdoors out of the ride, behind the building. Pretty cool being able to see all that.

Georgesgirl1
10-26-2008, 02:29 PM
I have always wanted to be escorted off a ride! I think it would be so cool to get to see the "backstage" areas of the rides.

This last trip we had to wait on Spaceship Earth for about 20 minutes and I kept hoping that they would come and escort us out so I could walk the ride, but no such luck!

Maybe someday....

dmosher
10-26-2008, 04:23 PM
I have had it happen a few times but remembering them is difficult. THe one that really stands out was TTA at the Space Mountain viewing area. Was there for about 10-15 min's while they got it up and running. A Cm walked by and asked if I wanted to get out, but I was enjoying watching SM so much I asked if I could just stay where I was. He said "sure", then walked down the track. It was pretty cool watching SM that whole time. Also, I got stuck on the Jungle Cruise once. There were only 3 of us on the boat so it was no big deal. The boat shut down inside the temple. Very Very Cool!
:pipes:
D

Followthatmouse
10-26-2008, 07:44 PM
I have had it happen a few times but remembering them is difficult. THe one that really stands out was TTA at the Space Mountain viewing area. Was there for about 10-15 min's while they got it up and running. A Cm walked by and asked if I wanted to get out, but I was enjoying watching SM so much I asked if I could just stay where I was. He said "sure", then walked down the track. It was pretty cool watching SM that whole time.
D

We had a similar experience. The only difference was that SM was also in the midst of some trouble. So, we sat and watched as the crews worked on a ride vehicle on the SM track. We were not stopped long.

thumperbug
10-27-2008, 05:01 PM
We;ve been lucky. Worst thing that has happen was 5-10 mins halts on Peter Pan and SE. One time on SE we were in the backwards/going back down mode.

One time on TTA when we went thru SM that ride was broken/down and they had the main lights on. Got to see all the tracks and inner workings. Pretty cool.

IloveDisney71
10-27-2008, 07:27 PM
I've been stuck on lots of different rides but I've only had to evacuate off of the Great Movie Ride.

love2teach
10-27-2008, 10:31 PM
We were stuck on Pirates for about an hour a few weeks ago:mpumpkin:! We were closing out the MNSSHP and decided to go on POTC for our last ride. We were stalled where the pirate says "here kitty kitty have some rum". After him saying that 500 times and hearing the pirate song we wanted to jump in the water.:pirate: Our boat moved backwards a few times and then forward a few times into the fiery part.:fireman: Castmembers put on water overalls/boots and climbed into the water to help us evacuate the boats. I guess the boats can tip over so they had to evacuate rows by weight/group size. We then went around the backlot and saw parade floats and other cool "behind the scenes things"

Disneyfan1971
11-08-2008, 12:30 AM
The last time I was at Epcot (1995) my cousin and I were on World Of Motion. Now the first time I rode this, it was pretty cool. Then in 1986, I rode it again and it was the same. And nine years later, it was still the same. Anyways, the ride stopped at least four times..not sure what was going on but it took us twenty-five minutes for that stupid ride :)

goofygirl67
11-08-2008, 08:06 AM
I have been on EE when it stopped twice, getting the lap bar shoved into your mid section was unpleasent.
The only time I had to be escorted off was on MS, back then there was only 1 version. We sat for 45 minutes in restraints and they kept telling us 'to sit tight we will get to you as soon as we can' , like we were going some place. Luckily we still had the AC on. We kept hearing metal banging around outside of the cabin, it turns out that on the spinning ride the floor drops out. We had to go down 1 ladder then climb up another just to get out.
Other than that I've just had the usual 10-15 minute waits.

AdventurerKim
11-08-2008, 02:00 PM
We were on Horizons and had to be walked off. The CM opened the back of the ride vehicle, and we had to climb out that way. We came out behind the building and had to walk up back to the park. Since that was pre-fastpasses, we didn't get anything except a cool and memorable experience.

Once in Buzz, the lights came on, a buzzer went off, and these chain gates popped up all around us which was really freaky. We stopped for a little while but didn't have to get off. It's never happened again while we've been on the ride, but, again, another memorable experience.

NJdisney
11-14-2008, 10:23 PM
At Magic Kingdom on the night of Saturday 11/8/08, we were on line for the Tea Cup ride, and it was closed after someone vomited in one of the cups. After attempting to cover the Tea Cup, they ran it once, so we stayed in line. After waiting in line a long time (we were then near the front of the line), they let everyone off the line. Immediately after, we walked to Tomorrowland Transit Authority, which had just closed it's ride. Then walked to Carousel of Progress, which also broke down shortly after the first scene. All riders left through a back hallway. Moments later, I complained to a Disney manager that we had been on three rides in a row that broke down that night. He seemed annoyed and did not even offer an apology, no fastpass, nothing. Very very disappointed with his attitude, which is a reflection of Disney Really bad way to handle my complaint.

Tinkerbelly84
11-15-2008, 07:16 PM
My DM and I got stuck on the Winnie the Pooh ride for about an hour and we had to be escorted out. We were stuck and the music continued it was really annoying after the first ten times through.

joanna71985
11-15-2008, 08:39 PM
I got stuck on EE, and we had to be escorted off. That's the only time I've been evacuated from a ride.

mouselover93
11-15-2008, 10:14 PM
primerval whirl i dont know why it broke down but it took 2 hours to get off

Simba's Mom
11-16-2008, 09:55 AM
primerval whirl i dont know why it broke down but it took 2 hours to get off

Wow, two hours! That really puts a crimp in your touring plans! What about people who missed ADRs or other one-time events as a result of being stuck on the ride? One time, I had reservations for an Annual Pass event at AK,and I would have been really upset if I missed it as a result of being stuck on a ride.

ojeilatan
11-17-2008, 01:32 PM
Never had this experience in WDW. We were on Dinosaur, and right as you hear 'The meteor's about to hit! Brace yourselves!' everything - the jeep, the lights, the sounds- shut off for about 3 minutes, then came back on and we took off.
DisneyLAND is a whole 'nother story, however - stuck for 45 minutes just after the drop in Splash, and got walked out through the water pump room; stuck on Indiana Jones and had the work lights turned on (which just about induced me to tears when the magic was gone :( luckily, we were in a small hallway, so not much was given away ) but we didn't have to walk out - they came out, checked on us, got us going again, and let us go again without getting off.

CaptainJessicaSparrow
11-17-2008, 08:08 PM
For the record - I went today to AK and Studios.

The eagle is still missing, the Yeti is still broken and the final Carnotaur is still broken.

Zawadi
11-18-2008, 01:25 PM
The eagle is still missing.
Eagle? I guess that you're not referring to Hope at Flights of Wonder are you? :confused: :confused:

LauraleeH
11-18-2008, 05:03 PM
The Haunted Mansion broke down last Sunday and they were getting ready to close it down and escort everyone out when they got it started.

Bri
11-19-2008, 03:29 PM
we were on the matterhorn in disneyland in september and it broke down. they had to come and get us and walk us through the areas where all the controls and mechanical stuff was. it was pretty cool.

CaptainJessicaSparrow
11-19-2008, 04:57 PM
Eagle? I guess that you're not referring to Hope at Flights of Wonder are you? :confused: :confused:

No. As you go up to where the tracks are ripped up on Everest, before you go backwards, there used to be an eagle or falcon that would swoop down behind the cliff. It was an animatronic and it's been gone...for a lonnnnnnnnng time.

dolphinmickey9170
11-20-2008, 11:39 AM
No. As you go up to where the tracks are ripped up on Everest, before you go backwards, there used to be an eagle or falcon that would swoop down behind the cliff. It was an animatronic and it's been gone...for a lonnnnnnnnng time.

I didn't even know there was an eagle or a falcon, Jess. You gotta tell me more of this stuff.

We were evacuated from Ellen's....just before the Final Jeapordy answer. No biggie....Stupid Judy.

indytraveler
11-20-2008, 07:49 PM
Hall of Presidents... I know I know not exciting. Abe Lincoln had a meltdown during his speech with Hydraulic fluids squirting out his backside. Poor Abe.

WDWdriver
11-20-2008, 10:33 PM
No. As you go up to where the tracks are ripped up on Everest, before you go backwards, there used to be an eagle or falcon that would swoop down behind the cliff. It was an animatronic and it's been gone...for a lonnnnnnnnng time.

Yeah, it used to be part of the ride "show". It's a vulture actually. Vultures are common in the Himalayas. While the train was paused during the track switch it would rise up in front of the train, then drop back down. It's still there, but not used anymore because, frankly, the effect was really lame. It wasn't very realistic, and it distracted from the yeti message.

I don't know when we will get the yeti animatronic fixed. That thing is really complicated.

TinkerbellFan16
11-25-2008, 07:58 PM
i dont have any memory of being walked off a ride, but my mom was telling me a story of when she got stuck on TTA for over 45 minutes, and they didnt even get escorted off. they were stuck in front of SM...and also i hate when you stop ALOT on SE

jnfr2424
11-25-2008, 08:42 PM
Always seems to happen to us on The Universe of Energy...3 times to be exact! We've stopped going since we feel like a curse.:thedolls:

Same Here! Everytime it broke down there was a bad thunderstorm going on outside! So now we don't even bother