What do you think Disney is doing, exactly ?

[fielin]

In just a few weeks, they have announced :
- the end of pleasure Island
- the end of two character meals
- the end of Pocahontas
- two Fantasmic shows instead of seven (or nine)
- I may be wrong but I think I've read somewhere that they were also reducing the number of buses

... and no new attraction, show, or restaurant in the same timeframe.

What do you think they are doing ?
Are they anticipating such a great recession ?

I'd like to hear what you have to say on this...

[xipetotec]

In just a few weeks, they have announced :
- the end of pleasure Island
- the end of two character meals
- the end of Pocahontas
- two Fantasmic shows instead of seven (or nine)
- I may be wrong but I think I've read somewhere that they were also reducing the number of buses

... and no new attraction, show, or restaurant in the same timeframe.

What do you think they are doing ?
Are they anticipating such a great recession ?

I'd like to hear what you have to say on this...

Actually, that's not entirely true. The Fantasmic! changes are supposed to coincide with the opening of American Idol Experience ( a HUGE bummer imho, I couldn't care less about American Idol ). I think this is supposed to be some sort of competition for late 2009's opening of Harry Potter at Universal and I have to say for me, it'll be the first time that I'll likely side with Universal on this one.

As for the other stuff, I'm sure there are plans behind it. Pleasure Island has been going downhill for sometime. I'm sure they're trying to re-invigorate it. same goes for Pocahontas. I know none of my friends and family have seen the show ( I'm not judging it, maybe it was great ) whether it was bad advertising for it or whatever, I think sometimes they have to look at the demographics of an attraction. I'm sure it won't be left as an empty space though.


One thing is for sure, FANTASMIC! is always packed! And I don't care if there will be an American Idol attraction as an evening show, I'm they could fill that Fantasmic! theater up any night.

[GrumpyFan]

Perhaps they're just tightening their belt in preparation for lower than usual bookings for 3rd & 4th quarter. I'm sure Disney has lots of historical info to draw from, so any decisions made to cut offerings, is based on pretty solid analytical data.

From a financial perspective, converting the clubs at PI to shops & restaurants is a big relief for them. No longer are they financially obligated to the operation of these clubs, now they're merely lease holders for the property the new shops & restaurants will be occupying. Which means, they will lose some revenue, but they'll also lose the overhead that was required to running the clubs.

Pocohontas is probably a combination of low turnout and cost-cutting. I would expect more such closings in the coming months of any show/attraction that doesn't draw enough people. Which, if you think about it makes good sense. Just be glad they're not closing big or more popular attractions (yet).

As for the Fantasmic cutback, that's hard to figure out. I've never been to this show when it wasn't full or nearly full capacity.

As for the busses, it's been rumoured in a few places, but I've not experienced, nor have I heard of it actually happening. Check the following thread where I asked specifically if anybody has noticed a Slowdown/Reduction in Services (http://www.intercot.com/discussion/showthread.php?p=1688945#post1688945)?

In short, if the numbers for the next 6-9 months are lower than historical, which other major tourist destinations have reported, then I would expect Disney to just what they're doing. When the numbers return, so will the attractions/shows.

Bottom line, Disney is doing what any smart business would do when faced with a pending economic slowdown, reduce or get rid of the products that aren't selling well, and cut back on the most expensive products.

[Sunshine1010]

I'm not sure I understand how they would cutback the Fantasmic show?.......

[Ian]

I'm not sure I understand how they would cutback the Fantasmic show?.......You need to read this post (http://www.intercot.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=138154).

[Dixie Springs]

My 2 cents...

I personally do not think it's recesssion-related. As I noted in a recent trip report, you couldn't convince me of an economic slowdown effecting at least domestic liesure travel. WDW was wall-to wall people. I'm a 25-year veteran, and I have never seen the MK that crowded. Our hotel (CBR) was completely booked per the CM.

Certainly, PI was always crowded. Parking at Downtown Disney is a major undertaking. My understanding was that Disney was tired of the local riff-raff loitering. That, and maybe club-crawlers don't generate as much $$ as a doting parent (despite the cost of a drink there).

Regarding the other stuff, there are always 'put's and takes' at WDW. Tarzan Rocks, MK Skyway, Horizons, Disney Institute, Off-site DisneyQuests were all probably eradicated in better economic times. There were other reasons for their extinction.

[Aggie97]

Toy Story Midway Mania -- a truly AMAZING new attraction -- was launched in roughly this same timeframe.... I have to believe there are even more positive changes to come. :mickey:

[DizneyRox]

In just a few weeks, they have announced :
- the end of pleasure Island
- the end of two character meals
- the end of Pocahontas
- two Fantasmic shows instead of seven (or nine)
- I may be wrong but I think I've read somewhere that they were also reducing the number of buses

... and no new attraction, show, or restaurant in the same timeframe.

What do you think they are doing ?
Are they anticipating such a great recession ?

I'd like to hear what you have to say on this...
I think they are gearing up to release their annual profit numbers and need something to blame them on, as well as showing the are doing something about it.

I do find it amazing they take away an attraction (Fantasmic!) and spin it into a good thing.

I do think that bookings are down. The 4th of July this year was a shadow of what it's been in years past, and I don't think we've seen to worst. In the past it's been possible to maybe cut some corners to help weather a storm, however cutting those corners has become standard procedures so making these drastic changes is what they need to do.

[r4kids]

I am pretty disappointed lately. I am really not feeling the magic. With the removals stated above plus the dining changes. I am bummed. :( Disney where are you?????

[GrumpyFan]

I am pretty disappointed lately. I am really not feeling the magic. With the removals stated above plus the dining changes. I am bummed. :( Disney where are you?????

Don't let it worry you too much. Disney is constantly changing, sometimes for the worse, sometimes for the better. So, just ride this out, better times will follow.

[fielin]

Toy Story Midway Mania -- a truly AMAZING new attraction -- was launched in roughly this same timeframe.... I have to believe there are even more positive changes to come. :mickey:

Well, yes, but it is something that they started building years ago.

It seems that since a few weeks, they only announce what is going to be ended, and that nothing is going to replace it.

Take Fantasmic. in their announcement, they heavily imply that they are discontinuing it on most night to make room for Pop Idol.

I do not believe it. If that was the case, they probably would have stated it as soon as they announced Pop Idol.

So, as I see it, they are reducing the number of fantasmic shows, without replacing them by anything.

[Vito]

I am pretty disappointed lately. I am really not feeling the magic. With the removals stated above plus the dining changes. I am bummed. :( Disney where are you?????Our last trip to WDW was the end of June '04. That was over 4 years ago. We're finally going again this Sept...

I remember discussions before our last trip (perhaps even here on Intercot) about how park hours were being cut back. Travel was still recovering from 9/11. People were worried that the shorter park hours were a bad sign. I recalled how every other summer visit we took park closings were regularly 11pm or midnight, but that last time they were seemingly 1 to 2 hours less than we were used to. I even called Disney to ask about it, and was called back by Disney. The incredibly understanding woman talked to me for TWENTY minutes. We talked about all sorts of stuff, including the cut back in hours, etc.

Four years later, have things gotten worse? I don't think so. It's cyclical. It's in response to the economy. WDW may not feel the burn as much during the peak seasons, but with fuel costs as high as they are, they feel the pinch moreso during the off-peak season. And I said this in the Fantasmic thread, but I guarantee there are a lot of people up here in the North who just can't afford a trip due to the hard toll Winter took on so many due to heating costs.

When the economy picks back up, people will start booking more vacations. When this happens, Disney will follow suit. It happened after 9/11, and we shouldn't worry that the "magic" is fading. Shows and Attractions are constantly changed, added, removed, etc based on demand. It's not Disney, on a whim, saying "We're Disney, guests will come no matter what we do." Especially with Lasseter gaining a significant role within the Disney company who knows very well the importance of the parks and staying on the top of their game.

Never fear, Disney (and the magic) aren't going anywhere, it's just that sometimes they need to be conservative with their pixie dust when the economy is a bit slower.

[Vito]

Well, yes, but it is something that they started building years ago.

It seems that since a few weeks, they only announce what is going to be ended, and that nothing is going to replace it.

Take Fantasmic. in their announcement, they heavily imply that they are discontinuing it on most night to make room for Pop Idol.

I do not believe it. If that was the case, they probably would have stated it as soon as they announced Pop Idol.

So, as I see it, they are reducing the number of fantasmic shows, without replacing them by anything.Oh, this is most definitely a cost cutting move. They can't come right out and say that, they HAVE to spin it - that's the way it works.

However, if you read my post here (in the "Disney's Hollywood Studios Announces Operational Changes for Late 2008 and 2009" thread), you'll see that sometimes certain cutbacks like this are inevitable, especially during the non-peak season.


http://www.intercot.com/discussion/showpost.php?p=1693635&postcount=38

[fielin]

Oh, this is most definitely a cost cutting move.

However, if you read my post here (in the "Disney's Hollywood Studios Announces Operational Changes for Late 2008 and 2009" thread), you'll see that sometimes certain cutbacks like this are inevitable, especially during the non-peak season.


http://www.intercot.com/discussion/showpost.php?p=1693635&postcount=38

Well, I think you are 100% right in the post you are linking to. There is nothing in it I would disagree with.

But still, I AM a little sad. :)

I went to Disneyworld last year for the first time. Made a repeat trip this year. And I know that I won't be able to go back next year due to buying a new kitchen.

But I can only hope that when I come back in two years, there will be new and exciting things to do and see, and not only shows, restaurant and clubs missing, with nothing to replace them.

[Vito]

But still, I AM a little sad. :)Oh definitely - as I said, I think we all wish the parks will all open until midnight every night and several showings of all the nightly fireworks shows and stuff.

I guess sometimes we come to expect so much from Disney, and they so often deliver it, so that when they do have to cut back on something, we're shocked in a way.

As someone who's been going to WDW for years (since the early 90s), I can tell you that I've only seen things expand. Of course some of my favorites have since been lost, but that's inevitable. I've seen far more new additions than I've seen things taken away over the years.

[DizneyRox]

I guess sometimes we come to expect so much from Disney, and they so often deliver it, so that when they do have to cut back on something, we're shocked in a way.
Sadly, now I reccommend people to not expect much from Disney, that way they aren't dissappointed.

[Tinksalot]

This may have already been addressed in another post and I missed it, but what exactly is replacing PI? I also thought I saw or heard somewhere that Disney is putting a parking garage in Downtown Disney.

[Spaceship Tigger]

The thing that kills me is that WDW has been - and still is - a huge moneymaker for Disney. But despite all of the money we are shelling out at WDW, what we're getting now at WDW is cutbacks, mainly so that the profits that still roll in from WDW can be used to build theme parks in other countries and upgrade DCA. Honestly, WDW has gotten one new attraction (Midway Mania) and a couple of new non-Disney managed restaurants (Yak and Yeti, T-Rex) in the past year with nothing new coming up on the table. Most everything else is cutbacks. I guarantee you they're not cutting back to this extent at DCA or Hong Kong.

I realize that it's all business, but it's still bothersome. The only good thing to come of it (to me) is a reduction in crowds and possible expansion of discounts.

[Vito]

The thing that kills me is that WDW has been - and still is - a huge moneymaker for Disney. But despite all of the money we are shelling out at WDW, what we're getting now at WDW is cutbacks, mainly so that the profits that still roll in from WDW can be used to build theme parks in other countries and upgrade DCA. Honestly, WDW has gotten one new attraction (Midway Mania) and a couple of new non-Disney managed restaurants (Yak and Yeti, T-Rex) in the past year with nothing new coming up on the table. Most everything else is cutbacks. I guarantee you they're not cutting back to this extent at DCA or Hong Kong.

I realize that it's all business, but it's still bothersome. The only good thing to come of it (to me) is a reduction in crowds and possible expansion of discounts.Majority ownership of Disney's overseas parks lies outside of the US Disney corporation. As such, the foreign parks often have little-to-no financial impact on the company as a whole, and even less impact on what happens at the WDW theme parks, generally speaking.

I'm not sure sure DCA's current/future expansion has anything to do with WDW's decision making either. And although DCA has performed below expectations, I believe that the DL resort as a whole has been doing very well these past several years. And even if you believe that what's happening at DCA and the DL resort as a whole has an impact on WDW, then you should be glad about the renovation and expansion happening at DCA, becuase that will in turn generate further revenue and success for the DL resort, in turn generating revenue for the entire company, which can translate into expansion at WDW as well.

If you space out the time over which WDW gets new e-tickets, I think you'll find that they're not coming slower than they used to.

In the past 10-15 years, WDW has added these e-tickets or major attractions:

Splash Mountain
ToT
Fantasmic
Animal Kingdom theme park
Test Track
Rock'n'Roller Coaster
Mission Space
Expedition Everest

I'd say that's appropriately on pace. If you look at the time between WDW's opening and the opening of the Studios, there wasn't a whole lot going on. Since MGM Studios (Hollywood Studios) has opened, I'd say that WDW has been at a fairly constant rate of growth for quite a while now. A lot of that slowed down in 2001 due to 9/11.

I'm not quite sure what people are expecting. As much as we may not like it, WDW's growth is limited, and will eventually reach the breaking point. If WDW's growth rate is exceeding our country's tourism growth rate, there's only so much expansion that can take place and still make a solid profit.

No corporation is in the business of losing money. Disney is no different. If they were different, and they worried less about their financial bottom line, it would severely hurt the parks in the long run, and we'd be crying when they started shutting down entire parks and resorts due to poor financial performance.

Yes, Disney is magic, but you can't operate in this country on magic alone... the almighty dollar is what allows Disney to provide this magic to us. All we can hope is that the people running the theme parks have a dedication to the long term success and thriving of the WDW resort. And personally, I firmly believe that they do.

I think many people forget just how poorly the Disney company and the theme parks were doing in the mid-80s. As much as Eisner may have stumbled towards the end of his tenure, the growth rate of WDW during his time at the helm paved the way for some of the best attractions and experiences we have right now.

I don't think a few cutbacks in slow economic times is a sign that WDW is headed in the wrong direction. Like any other company, your profit margin needs to be maintained in order to convince your investors that expansion is the right thing to do. If you don't cut back when necessary, and you start losing money, watch out... because if you think cutting Fantasmic down to a few performances per week is bad, I don't want to know what you'd think of what would happen if the Disney theme parks started losing the confidence of their investors more and more.

[Vito]

This may have already been addressed in another post and I missed it, but what exactly is replacing PI? I also thought I saw or heard somewhere that Disney is putting a parking garage in Downtown Disney.Essentially more Downtown Disney... more restaurants, shops, etc.

If a parking garage is going in, it will likely go somewhere in the existing parking lot, in order to improve the parking situation there.

Honestly, it makes sense though with regard to the closure of PI. I think most of Pleasure Island was an ill-fated concept to begin with. I don't know about you, but I don't go to WDW for the nightclubs.

Now, things like the Comedy Warehouse or Adventurer's Club were unique offerings, and I'm somewhat surprised they aren't going to keep at least those around. That's actually very sad and unfortunate, but again, if something isn't popular, it's not going to stick around. It's the sad reality of Disney theme parks, but just because many of us love something, doesn't mean that the majority of us enjoy it or spend time at it.

Admittedly, I didn't spend a whole lot of time at PI. We stopped in the Adventurer's Club one time, and saw a show at the Comedy Warehouse, but never went back. There's only so much time you have on a WDW vacation, and we always wanted to visit the parks the most.

The removal of the PI clubs/buildings isn't really a cut back. It's a re-appropriation of resources. Popularity will dictate change. As much as we hate that, that's the only way WDW as a whole can stay in business. It's the catch 22 of the place, and unfortunately sometimes there's just no way we can have our cake and eat it, too. It's extremely unfortunate, and it's not that we can't be sad about it, but I think there's also something to be said for not being angry about it. Most of the time, it's for the good of the resort as a whole in the long term view.

[Wells]

Majority ownership of Disney's overseas parks lies outside of the US Disney corporation. As such, the foreign parks often have little-to-no financial impact on the company as a whole, and even less impact on what happens at the WDW theme parks, generally speaking.

I'm not sure sure DCA's current/future expansion has anything to do with WDW's decision making either. And although DCA has performed below expectations, I believe that the DL resort as a whole has been doing very well these past several years. And even if you believe that what's happening at DCA and the DL resort as a whole has an impact on WDW, then you should be glad about the renovation and expansion happening at DCA, becuase that will in turn generate further revenue and success for the DL resort, in turn generating revenue for the entire company, which can translate into expansion at WDW as well.

If you space out the time over which WDW gets new e-tickets, I think you'll find that they're not coming slower than they used to.

In the past 10-15 years, WDW has added these e-tickets or major attractions:

Splash Mountain
ToT
Fantasmic
Animal Kingdom theme park
Test Track
Rock'n'Roller Coaster
Mission Space
Expedition Everest

I'd say that's appropriately on pace. If you look at the time between WDW's opening and the opening of the Studios, there wasn't a whole lot going on. Since MGM Studios (Hollywood Studios) has opened, I'd say that WDW has been at a fairly constant rate of growth for quite a while now. A lot of that slowed down in 2001 due to 9/11.

I'm not quite sure what people are expecting. As much as we may not like it, WDW's growth is limited, and will eventually reach the breaking point. If WDW's growth rate is exceeding our country's tourism growth rate, there's only so much expansion that can take place and still make a solid profit.

No corporation is in the business of losing money. Disney is no different. If they were different, and they worried less about their financial bottom line, it would severely hurt the parks in the long run, and we'd be crying when they started shutting down entire parks and resorts due to poor financial performance.

Yes, Disney is magic, but you can't operate in this country on magic alone... the almighty dollar is what allows Disney to provide this magic to us. All we can hope is that the people running the theme parks have a dedication to the long term success and thriving of the WDW resort. And personally, I firmly believe that they do.

I think many people forget just how poorly the Disney company and the theme parks were doing in the mid-80s. As much as Eisner may have stumbled towards the end of his tenure, the growth rate of WDW during his time at the helm paved the way for some of the best attractions and experiences we have right now.

I don't think a few cutbacks in slow economic times is a sign that WDW is headed in the wrong direction. Like any other company, your profit margin needs to be maintained in order to convince your investors that expansion is the right thing to do. If you don't cut back when necessary, and you start losing money, watch out... because if you think cutting Fantasmic down to a few performances per week is bad, I don't want to know what you'd think of what would happen if the Disney theme parks started losing the confidence of their investors more and more.

AHGGGGGG!!!!!......Don't confuse me with common sense and logic..... It's all about me, me, ME!!!!!!!
(Seriously though, kudos, very well said!)

[fielin]

Again, i am 100% agreed with Vito.

I am not, and have never been angry with Disney. i don't live in any kind of nostalgia about what was once upon a time.

In fact, I am not sad about Fantasmic, Pocahontas, Character Lunches (eventhough I loved Garden Grill, and Chip and Dale will be missed), or Pleasure Island.

I am one of the few who whould like to have a completely different experience everytime I come to WDW; If they could destroy and rebuild the parcs every year, then I would gladly get excited everytime.

What makes me sad is not to say goodbye to all these things. It is not having anything new to say hello to in the same timeframe. And no, I won't count Toy Story Mania or Pop Idol : they were announced BEFORE this trend began.

I feel that we are losing a lot of things and not getting any in replacement. I don't want expansion, I want renewal. I don't want bigger than, I want as big as.

And although I know that these changes are probably necessary steps in order to ensure the (w)health of the company in the next difficult months, I feel that a lot of sacrifices are being made, and wonder how many more will come, and how long this will last.

[Vito]

Again, i am 100% agreed with Vito.

I am not, and have never been angry with Disney. i don't live in any kind of nostalgia about what was once upon a time.

In fact, I am not sad about Fantasmic, Pocahontas, Character Lunches (eventhough I loved Garden Grill, and Chip and Dale will be missed), or Pleasure Island.

I am one of the few who whould like to have a completely different experience everytime I come to WDW; If they could destroy and rebuild the parcs every year, then I would gladly get excited everytime.

What makes me sad is not to say goodbye to all these things. It is not having anything new to say hello to in the same timeframe. And no, I won't count Toy Story Mania or Pop Idol : they were announced BEFORE this trend began.

I feel that we are losing a lot of things and not getting any in replacement. I don't want expansion, I want renewal. I don't want bigger than, I want as big as.

And although I know that these changes are probably necessary steps in order to ensure the (w)health of the company in the next difficult months, I feel that a lot of sacrifices are being made, and wonder how many more will come, and how long this will last.I definitely understand that feeling - and believe me, I'm in agreement. I think the most important thing right now is patience.

There are some rumors going around about some semi-major possible additions to Fantasyland, including a Little Mermaid dark ride similar or the same as the one going in at DCA. Additionally, there has been work on possibly expanding POP Century with more family suites (this may already be happening) as well.

I don't think Disney has completely abandoned plans for a 5th theme park as of right now either. They may be biding their time for an upturn in the economy/tourism before they give the green light.

Star Tours 2 is apparently in the works as we speak for a potential opening in 2010 I believe. It would replace the current Star Tours and involve a replacement/refurb of the simulator vehicles, an upgrade to 3D, as well possible changes that could include open-roofed simulator vehicles with projections/images/stuff on the ceiling above the vehicles.

Of course these are just mostly rumors, but at least there are rumors.

I think that we might be in a bit of a lull in terms of announcements right now, but one thing I can say is that if you look back over any 5 year period, there are always more additions than subtractions, and I fully expect that trend to continue.

[Mackflava99]

I myself don't care too much about PI- i hae had fun there, but now with kids its tough- but running a night club with kids and alcohol always has alot of downsides and the PI area has had some crime recently too. I am not sure what alot of the guests will do for nighttime entertainment frm now on, that may be something that will be interesting.

The reduction in character meals troubles me- why? i still have not heard a good answer.

Pocohantas? i think it was ok, but it was a place to go to avoid some crows. You need rides and attractions that give you a little break. But now that are taking her away, another character interaction removed.

Fantasmic is strange- i guess its expensive as heck to run, but it was a real incredible magical show- I am also shocked about this- i can see going from 7 to 5 days but 7 to 2?
Those 2 days will be crazy at DHS-

yes the dining package will be crucial, i am forseeing alot of other restaurants in DHS having it now.

The economy is tight, but i find it hard to see Disney losing money , especially with stuff like HSM3 which will be another money maker - movie, dolls, clothes...

[ParkMan]

I'm OK with all the changes. Sure, I'm disappointed when there are fewer choices than before, but there really isn't that much that will directly impact me.

With Fantasmic, I just go on a different night.

With the character meals, I just pick another restuarant.

I don't go to PI, so that in no way impacts me.

I might go to Pocahontas once, so again, minimal impact.

I don't mean this to sound like "it's all about me" - my general point is that there is really so far be minimal interruption to an average park goer's overall experience.

If all this helps WDW weather a downturn better, than great. I've worked in companies the over plan and under plan for downturns. It's usually better to be involved with one that overplans and can later relax those changes. If you under plan, all kind of bad things can happen.

[GrumpyFan]

If all this helps WDW weather a downturn better, than great. I've worked in companies the over plan and under plan for downturns. It's usually better to be involved with one that overplans and can later relax those changes. If you under plan, all kind of bad things can happen.

Exactly! With the exception of Pocohontas and PI changes, these are all temporary changes that are easily re-established. When bookings for next year pick up, then Disney will simply go back to the schedule they had before.

[magicman]

I am pretty disappointed lately. I am really not feeling the magic. With the removals stated above plus the dining changes. I am bummed. :( Disney where are you?????

Sadly, I'm in total agreement.

[Spaceship Tigger]

Sadly, I'm in total agreement.

Watch out - someone will tell you that it's all about YOU.

The pure and simple fact is that WDW is the most popular vacation destination on the planet. Disney thinks that they can make the cuts there without a significant impact to attendence. They know that they can't make the same cuts in other parks that might be struggling. As I said before, it makes financial sense right now. However, by cutting amenities in WDW while not having many definite plans for future developments, they will be damaging WDW attendence. When people are saying that they don't feel the excitement anymore - and trust me, I hear that more and more often - then I assure you that WDW will soon have a serious problem.

[lockedoutlogic]

Ah yes, apparently if you disagree with the actions that Disney is taking right now in regards to WDW, then you're a crybaby. Nice.

The pure and simple fact is that WDW is the most popular vacation destination on the planet. Disney thinks that they can make the cuts there without a significant impact to attendence. They know that they can't make the same cuts in other parks that might be struggling. As I said before, it makes financial sense right now. However, by cutting amenities in WDW while not having many definite plans for future developments, they will be damaging WDW attendence. When people are saying that they don't feel the excitement anymore - and trust me, I hear that more and more often - then I assure you that WDW will soon have a serious problem.

I agree that it is very frustrating to say the least....here's what i think is going on...

1. If there is one thing that Disney pays TOO much attention to and invests huge amounts of time, money, and energy into: it's forecasting

Their projections for the next year (at least) are down.....i would bet everything on it. I've seen this kind of aligning before....worked there during it......that's what they are doing....

If the DISNEY/affordable commercials didn't tip you off that they've been expecting this for quite awhile.....then the new ads advertising "fall romantic giveaways" should definitely sound the air raid siren....

typically....disney marketing campaigns are the same thing: lots of characters, corny special effects, and families WITH children looking like they're having a blast in the parks....

it's been the same forever.....

but when they start advertising adult type getaways or directing towards "affordable"....then that is a Plan B....

Mickey, families, children, full-price.....that's the "good" economy angle...Plan A

2. Not only do they study travel and industry trends very closely....they spend alot of time analyzing the domestic and foreign economies for other things....

I think the "affordable" ads were a pre-emptive strike on energy costs.....and they apparently were lucky to dodge the bullet from 07-08 and still have strong attendance....
but the 08-09 season, according to alot of financial commentary, is going to be a significant hit on the average person's budget due to fuel costs.....and heating....and every other thing that depends on fossils (everything...basically).....

they know it and are realizing that the slowdown has reached critical mass.....

don't underestimate political change either....as whoever wins the whitehouse is bound to bring as many drawbacks to the movers and shakers in the financial sector as they will stabilizing factors......a realitively inexperienced "left winger" who nobody really knows too well....or a tow the line moderate-rightwinger who is every bit as much of a fuddy duddy as Dole in 96 and has had to make a complete 180 roundabout on practically everything to pander to his "base".....
neither will get into the west wing without the economy taking a heavy thrashing....

3. It seems as though Disney has adopted a model: they use WDW as their public acknowledgement of a challenging economy.....

being that it is their best cashcow by far....that would seem antithesis to a good strategy....but just hear me out:

They slow down, eliminate areas, reduce staffing demand and hirings, maintain the perpertually stagnant wages, and still make good profit by using WDW this way....

and they also put pressure on their predominantly repeat offender clientele.....people feel bad that things seem "bad"....and instead of going elsewhere....I'm willing to bet that they return in higher volume at the first sign of economic upswing.....

i know....it seems nuts....but i can tell you that it corresponds nicely to a not so public corporate agenda.....

So here's their next steps.....(a guess)

1. as always....they start offering more incentives to florida and georgia residents to get them there more frequently.....the time honored "call to the bullpen" at WDW
2. they increase incentives for weddings, conventions, and group travel.....as they are typically not effected quite so much by decrease in consumer spending and they will want to build their base....
3. As a DVC member....we've gotten probably 4-5 adds for "special member offers" to buy additional ownership......i look for that barrage to continue and increase....
4. They'll pary back investment in the parks and outlays on operating costs.....with an emphasis on reducing staffing (by means of essentially closing the doors to the casting center and not replacing the inevitable turnover of rank n files) and alot of tweaking to see where they can reduce levels, consolidate, shift permanently for the next boom time



...just off the top of my head :blush:

[GrumpyFan]

1. If there is one thing that Disney pays TOO much attention to and invests huge amounts of time, money, and energy into: it's forecasting

...just off the top of my head :blush:

That was a lot to be just off the top of your head!

Most big companies these days put a lot of time, money and energy into their forecasting system. The big reasons are the data and algorithms have matured to the point of being able to give valuable information in running a business and making decisions. My company relies HEAVILY on the forecast system we have mainly because the bulk of what we do is made in China, so we need to know 6 months in advance, what's projected. Disney is no different in this light. They have lots of money at stake in WDW and the last thing they want to happen is to be caught not ready to absorb the impact of an economic downturn short or long.

[lockedoutlogic]

That was a lot to be just off the top of your head!

Most big companies these days put a lot of time, money and energy into their forecasting system. The big reasons are the data and algorithms have matured to the point of being able to give valuable information in running a business and making decisions. My company relies HEAVILY on the forecast system we have mainly because the bulk of what we do is made in China, so we need to know 6 months in advance, what's projected. Disney is no different in this light. They have lots of money at stake in WDW and the last thing they want to happen is to be caught not ready to absorb the impact of an economic downturn short or long.

yeah.....that's kinda where i was going....

i phrase it that way as a reminder that disney operates under a complex hierarchy that relies heavily on statistical data.......as any large business unit would....

that includes WDW.....

i like to put it in those kinda terms to attempt to limit response like....

"walt wouldn't be happy"....and "it's all about the magic"

i guess it depends on your definition of "magic"....

if "magic" means foreign currency exchange rates.....federal relief to large corporations (cough...AIRLINES!!!!...cough), and macroeconomists crunching numbers.....

then it most definitely is all about the magic :mickey:

[barnaby]

A lot of that slowed down in 2001 due to 9/11.


Vito, good post.

Not to get off subject...
But I can't help think that the effects of 9/11 are still being felt countrywide in general, even nearly 8 years later.

In my opinion, 9/11 set off a string of events - the airline crisis, 2 wars, a borrow and spend gov't in massive debt, the plunge of the US dollar, a low prime rate which led to increased borrowing and personal debt, which has turned into the credit crisis we see now.
And the astounding jump in the price of oil that has been fueled by speculation, unrest in the Middle East and the rapid economic growth of countries like China and India. And it wouldn't be a stretch to say that the U.S.'s economic downturn has helped fuel China rise.

And thats not even mentioning the emotional toll on many peoples' lives from the human loss on 9/11.

All from one event on one day. :(

Sorry to get off topic.

[Polynesian Dweller]

You know, there really isn't a trend here at all. I've been going to Disneyland and subsequently WDW since 1958. Yep, that long and I was very young when I started. Walt started changing Disneyland the day the doors opened.

WDW is vastly changed since it opened. They are constantly opening and closing attractions. Look at the Land for example. There was Kitchen Kabaret, then Food Rocks, now Soarn', all in the same spot. Horizons becomes Mission Space, Test Track from World of Motion. DHS did not have TOT or RNRC when it opened and Fantasmic came years later.

In fact, one could keep going on forever about all the changes, deletions, and additions throughout WDW and Disneyland over the years. Its actually the nature of the business and its what keeps Disney fresh. Things change, not always for the best, but things change.

And this has anything to do with the downturn. There have been a couple of recessions since WDW opened and they've just kept changing things. So, after 50 years of this, I don't see anything different in their approach. Just change, nothing more or less. And another thing that hasn't changed over 50 years, whenever Disney changes something people complain about the change and assume somethings wrong or there must be some sinister reason behind it all.

And it always turns out to be just change and Disney keeps getting fresh and keeps giving you a reason to go back and see what's new. Last year it was EE, this year its Toy Story Mania and next year it will be the changes to PI, and there will be something the year after that. And people will want to see what the new thing is like and people will miss the old things. But people will come back and look at what's there and keep on enjoying Disney. There's nothing to worry about, its just the change they've always done.

[lockedoutlogic]

Vito, good post.

Not to get off subject...
But I can't help think that the effects of 9/11 are still being felt, even nearly 8 years later.

In my opinion, 9/11 set off a string of events - the airline crisis, 2 wars, a borrow and spend gov't in massive debt, the plunge of the US dollar, a low prime rate which led to increased of borrowing and personal debt, which has turned into the credit crisis we see now.
And the astounding jump in the price of oil that has been fueled by speculation, unrest in the Middle East and the rapid economic growth of countries like China and India. And it wouldn't be a stretch to say that the U.S.'s economic downturn had helped fuel China rise.

And thats not even mentioning the emotional toll on many peoples' lives from the human loss on 9/11.

All from one event on one day. :(

Sorry to get off topic.


i agree that those events had a big impact on wdw business....

but....and i'm not trying to be disrespectful in anyway......their business was significantly down prior to september of that year....

working in resort operations at the time (also at the resort with the highest annual occupancy rate).....things very dramatically went south in january and february of that year....

the millenium celebration was a huge boom....but it resulted in a fairly large crash....

there were other factors, of course......but hotels were way down in bookings prior to september.....

that event.....made things much worse......but working there before, during, and after.....it seems as though it was a much bigger thing to northeasterners than the rest of the country....obviously....and logically as it should be.....

the business was very much down.....before....however.....

we also had government change....and disney....for it's part....was in the beginnings of the eisner power struggles.....pressler was absolutely running the attractions unit into the ground......and they were in a string of TERRIBLE feature films and animation

anyone remember Dinosaur? Treasure Planet? Atlantis?

there's a reason......

As far as the lasting effects of the 9/11 events....

it certainly has altered some....but from 04-present has been an incredible jam at WDW.....some of the best years ever.....
so the status quo was restored fairly quickly in many ways.....

again....i don't mean to be argumentative.....but 9/11 only increased the downturn....it didn't cause it.....

[barnaby]

again....i don't mean to be argumentative.....but 9/11 only increased the downturn....it didn't cause it.....

No probelm, didn't think it was argumentative. :)

However, I was referring to the US economy and state of affairs in general, not necessarily Disney. ;)

[lockedoutlogic]

No probelm, didn't think it was argumentative. :)

However, I was referring to the US economy and state of affairs in general, not necessarily Disney. ;)

i gotcha.....

you'll find that disney's business.....assuming wise management decisions.....is very much indicative of the country's economy as a whole....

that's why it's part of the dow jones industrial average.....

[r4kids]

Vito, good post.

Not to get off subject...
But I can't help think that the effects of 9/11 are still being felt countrywide in general, even nearly 8 years later.

In my opinion, 9/11 set off a string of events - the airline crisis, 2 wars, a borrow and spend gov't in massive debt, the plunge of the US dollar, a low prime rate which led to increased borrowing and personal debt, which has turned into the credit crisis we see now.
And the astounding jump in the price of oil that has been fueled by speculation, unrest in the Middle East and the rapid economic growth of countries like China and India. And it wouldn't be a stretch to say that the U.S.'s economic downturn has helped fuel China rise.

And thats not even mentioning the emotional toll on many peoples' lives from the human loss on 9/11.

All from one event on one day. :(

Sorry to get off topic.

This makes absolute sense. I also see Vitos point in a previous post too though. I don't believe it's "all about me". I believe I have come to expect a certain level from Disney you simply can't get at any other "theme park" that is why when I say it feels like the magic is gone, it makes me sad. I am totally for changing things around and updating. I also know rides, attractions and shows don't last forever. However part of the reason so many people continue to visit is it really is unlike anywhere else in the world. When you start taking away and not adding or updating you may as well go to ( and please forgive me for saying this) Kings Dominion or Sixflags, so it's not the theme parks your going for but the experience you get while there. Hope I explained that well. Oh and just an FYI I would never visit one of those parks stated above, it would be too disappointing.:mickey:

[Vito]

You know, there really isn't a trend here at all. I've been going to Disneyland and subsequently WDW since 1958. Yep, that long and I was very young when I started. Walt started changing Disneyland the day the doors opened.

WDW is vastly changed since it opened. They are constantly opening and closing attractions. Look at the Land for example. There was Kitchen Kabaret, then Food Rocks, now Soarn', all in the same spot. Horizons becomes Mission Space, Test Track from World of Motion. DHS did not have TOT or RNRC when it opened and Fantasmic came years later.

In fact, one could keep going on forever about all the changes, deletions, and additions throughout WDW and Disneyland over the years. Its actually the nature of the business and its what keeps Disney fresh. Things change, not always for the best, but things change.

And this has anything to do with the downturn. There have been a couple of recessions since WDW opened and they've just kept changing things. So, after 50 years of this, I don't see anything different in their approach. Just change, nothing more or less. And another thing that hasn't changed over 50 years, whenever Disney changes something people complain about the change and assume somethings wrong or there must be some sinister reason behind it all.

And it always turns out to be just change and Disney keeps getting fresh and keeps giving you a reason to go back and see what's new. Last year it was EE, this year its Toy Story Mania and next year it will be the changes to PI, and there will be something the year after that. And people will want to see what the new thing is like and people will miss the old things. But people will come back and look at what's there and keep on enjoying Disney. There's nothing to worry about, its just the change they've always done.Yes, exactly... this is what I've been trying to say as well.

If you go back to any 5 year period in Disney's history since the late 80s, you'll see the same sorts of things. Occasionally things get cut back, occasionally things disappear, but if you look at that 5 year window, you'll notice more additions than subtractions.

Again, WDW has recently (last 5 years) opened new resorts and/or expanded some resorts, added major attractions (Expedition Everest, Soarin, Mission Space, Toy Story Midway Mania), and expanded Downtown Disney.

I think if you wait another 3 years, then look back at the past 5 years, you'll see a similar trend. Again, Star Tours 2, Little Mermaid and/or related Fantasy Land expansion, Epcot rumors (Russia or other WS pavilion) etc will either be in the works or completed by then... and that's just the stuff we know about at this point.

And one more point on 9/11, not to dwell on it, but I'm not necessarily implying that it hurt Disney a whole lot, but travel/vacationing most definitely took a down turn and it took some time for it to recover. But even if travel is back to reasonable levels, the economy as a whole has had some problems recovering from it, and now the oil price issues are a significant economic problem for the average American family as well.

While it may not force everyone to cancel their WDW vacations, it may cause them to have to cut it back... 5 days instead of 7 or 8... Standard park passes instead of hoppers... counter service instead of character dining or table service meals... less merchandise and souvenier purchases.

Again, if Disney doesn't find some way to maintain a certain level of profitability during the "leaner" economic times, they will find it harder and harder to justify expansion to their investors. If, however, they can say "look, even when attendance took a hit, we still made a profit" then investors will be more inclined to support a plan of growth.

Disney has been making a killing for years. They know how to grow and expand a business. Like any business, they will make mistakes, but they do have at least some idea of what they are doing.

Believe me, they didn't come to the decision to cut back Fantasmic, for example, very easily. I promise you they were very reluctant to do so, but when the numbers are crunched and figures are calculated, they know that the bottom line is critical to the success and future of the company as a whole. It's a calculated decision, and they often times have to do things that they don't want to do.

Disney would be stupid to remove or cut back on things that would make them more money. They're not doing this because they're "greedy" and want people to have less entertainment.

And once again, I'm not saying we can't be disappointed. It's very disappointing, of course. It's also disappointing that people have lost their jobs in a tough economy, or that many have had a tough time making it through this past winter with heating costs so high. I think we just need to keep perspective. And considering how hard last winter was on many middle class families financially, they're going to be reluctant to book a vacation heading into this winter, as there is uncertainty there.

Disney always has a good long-term vision. That's been their strong suit for years. The WDW resort has been expanding at what's really an astonishing rate since the early 90s. And even moreso now with John Lasseter with a controlling interest in the company, including major influence at WDI, the new attractions and experiences that will be added in the future will be sure to maintain Disney's standard. We just have to remember not to panic in the short term every time a change or minor cut back is announced. It would take a trend of cutbacks over a long period of time before I'd start to worry about WDW's future.

[Aggie97]

Vito and Polynesian Dweller -- thank you for your excellent posts. I could not agree more. :thumbsup:

[Camping Mom]

[QUOTE=lockedoutlogic;1694280]I agree that it is very frustrating to say the least....here's
don't underestimate political change either....as whoever wins the whitehouse is bound to bring as many drawbacks to the movers and shakers in the financial sector as they will stabilizing factors......a realitively inexperienced "left winger" who nobody really knows too well....or a tow the line moderate-rightwinger who is every bit as much of a fuddy duddy as Dole in 96 and has had to make a complete 180 roundabout on practically everything to pander to his "base".....
neither will get into the west wing without the economy taking a heavy thrashing....

Ummm...did we get off base a bit here?

[mrte62]

On another Board, there is a column called "Disney Declining by Degrees." It makes for interesting reading.

[Dixie Springs]

Yikes - it just took a political turn! My crystal ball has the following prediction for this thread:
:skull:

Well, there's probably enough info/opinion on the topic to close 'er up anyway.

[lockedoutlogic]

[QUOTE=lockedoutlogic;1694280]I agree that it is very frustrating to say the least....here's
don't underestimate political change either....as whoever wins the whitehouse is bound to bring as many drawbacks to the movers and shakers in the financial sector as they will stabilizing factors......a realitively inexperienced "left winger" who nobody really knows too well....or a tow the line moderate-rightwinger who is every bit as much of a fuddy duddy as Dole in 96 and has had to make a complete 180 roundabout on practically everything to pander to his "base".....
neither will get into the west wing without the economy taking a heavy thrashing....

Ummm...did we get off base a bit here?


kinda...apologies.....

but government change is a big economic factor....that is the point

[BrerSchultzy]

My family were there at the end of June. It was great. We loved every second of it. And I'm one of those people who remember taking the monorail to see EPCOT be built...when there was one park, one water park, Discovery Island, two hotels and a campground. And in 25 years, it has become a destination where I can't see everything in 7 days, so we're contemplating an 8th day for our next trip.

Sure, it's frustrating to see things go away. But in truth, have they really taken away that much? It's not like they're shutting Fantasmic down...they're just reducing the number of shows (and there's no confirmation that they'll have any fewer shows in peak times). Okay, so Pocahontas closed...but Nemo just opened up (and we couldn't even sniff the front door of that one this trip). Adventurers Club and Comedy Warehouse are gone...and I'm not unconvinced that they won't find new life elsewhere...but when I did go to see them, I felt pretty lonely. And they've given us plenty recently...Toy Story Mania, new Pirates, New Haunted Mansion, Finding Nemo (ride AND show)...

October is usually "announcement month" for Disney, and by then they'll have a pretty good grasp on numbers for the "off season". If things look good, they'll expand...if not, they'll keep cutting costs.

Personally, I'd rather they got rid of a few attractions and liabilities than cut back on maintenance or cast members in other areas...especially the cast members in the Dole Whip stand. KEEP THEM NO MATTER WHAT...I'll pay their salaries if I have to, but I'll be getting my Dole Whip.

Anyway, let's not look so glum. Things ain't so bad. And pretty soon we'll hear about some new thing that gets us all excited to go back again.

[FiremanDisney]

Things change. I really dont see any issues with what Disney is doing.
Actually, I think overall things at Disney are improving greatly.
Closing P.I. was IMHO, a GREAT thing.
As for the economic issues. And the slow down in the economy....
It has, imho, bottomed out and things are looking up!:thumbsup:

[Puppy Mom]

Wow, this is an interesting thread. I LOVE these kinds of discussions and so many of you make such well thought out points.

Having been the manager of budgeting and forecasting for a company several years back, I can tell you that I believe Disney is doing EXACTLY what they should be doing.

All intelligently run companies must constantly review their own product offering and the demand for it and adjust. If they don't, they die. They also have to review their most profitable demographics and determine not only how many customers they need to draw in, but WHICH customers they draw in. This involves looking at the usage figures. Believe me, Disney is not going to close anything that is a huge success for them unless doing so will be even more of a success. Of course we all have our personal favorites that we miss.

I could be mistaken, but I believe that PI has been drawing a very heavily youngish, local demographic with a bit too many of questionalbe character and motivation. They drink and dance but they don't shop and they sure don't spend hundreds on souvenirs.

I think that many of us tend not to understand that the business cycle of an exterprise of Disney's size is MUCH longer that a year or two. Whoever talked about looking at things in a 5 year window is spot on, maybe even longer.

From a purely emotional side I have to say that I have NEVER been disappointed in a Disney trip (well maybe that one where my now ex husband was behaving like a giant jerk). But then my signature quote IS that most folks are about as happy as they choose to be.

I have never been able to take in all of the wonderful things there are to do and see at Disney. I ALWAYS wish my vacation was longer because THERE IS SO MUCH TO DO.

I wonder if the fact that some of us get to go so often makes us a bit jaded.

I want to be able to go to Disney as long as I live. If they have to ratchet things down for just ONE YEAR in order to preserve it forever, then I say go for it.

[GrumpyFan]

:clappy: Well said PuppyMom - I wish more people would dispense with some of their emotions here and look at it from the business perspective that Disney is facing right now. Point being, when numbers drop, or in this case, are forecasted to drop, you have to adjust/cut somewhere. When the numbers go back up, you simply re-adjust. I'm bothered that they're cutting back too, but I completely understand and fully expect them to do these kinds of things when things slow down. With the exception of Pocohontas and PI, I don't see this as a permanent sort of thing, and those 2 things really don't effect me.

[MushuGrl]

I'm of the same accord, maybe because I don't go as much as some. This will be the first time I've ever done back to back years at WDW. Comparing the cutbacks of the past month to the things we've gotten within the last, say, two years...I can't be disappointed.

I'm fine with the Fantasmic cutbacks - my first Disneyland trip (2006), and my last WDW trip (2007), there was no Spectromagic at ALL the entire time I was there. I saw no fireworks at the Kingdom at DL. (And while I'm at it...no Fantasmic either! They only ran it on weekends!) At least we know, with careful planning (and weather permit) we WILL get to see WDW's Fantasmic.

Until my dole whip is thrown at me, until I'm piledriven through the concrete by Mickey Mouse, until the bus drivers tell me I'm WALKING to the park, until Spaceship Earth rolls off it's base and smushes me...I will still be happy with WDW.

[fielin]

Wow, this is an interesting thread. I LOVE these kinds of discussions and so many of you make such well thought out points.
(...)

From a purely emotional side I have to say that I have NEVER been disappointed in a Disney trip (well maybe that one where my now ex husband was behaving like a giant jerk). But then my signature quote IS that most folks are about as happy as they choose to be.

I have never been able to take in all of the wonderful things there are to do and see at Disney. I ALWAYS wish my vacation was longer because THERE IS SO MUCH TO DO.

I wonder if the fact that some of us get to go so often makes us a bit jaded.


Okay, this is going to be long, brace yourself. :blush:

First of all, I want to say that, as the OP, I am indeed very happy with the way this thread has grown. Everyone has been Soooooo respectful and nice. See, that's the reason why I love it here !

Thanks to everyone for not turning this into a Disney bashing or disney worshipping thread, you rock indeed.:number1:

The first time I came to WDW, I spent a week there, and couldn't do everything. The second time, I spent six days, thinking that I would be able to see everything I hadn't the first time.

Nope ! And I have to agree with you, even with those changes, there still is quite a lot to do and see. And, yes, change is good. As I explained in another post, I am one of those who think that ANY change is good.

Cancelling most of the fantasmic shows makes perfect sense. Fireworks are VERY exepensive. There are a lot of artists involved, too, and a technical staff which must be quite large too. And of course, I don't think anyone goes to DHS just for Fantasmic.

The impact on the crowds will be minimal and the saving is huge (think 63% of the weekly price of the show !).

The same can be said about Pocahontas (except this time they will save 100% of the price).

Character meals ? This restaurants don't need this incentive to attract people. In fact, as you know, the Dining Plan has allowed nearly every restaurant on the resort to be filled to capacity every single day of the year. So, again, you can expect a minimal impact on frequentation of these restaurants, for an optimized rentability (no more characters = less castmembers involved in the meal = great savings for Disney).

And I won't even go into Pleasure Island, as there are a lot of incentive to close the clubs and open shops.

But I have to wonder why we should be so understanding. Having no interest in Disney's profits, I am left, as a guest, to pay the same for less.

Where Disney is making huge savings, I will probably, next year (or the years after), have to pay more for my park tickets (eventhough I will not see Pocahontas or Fantasmic !), the same to enjoy a meal at Garden Grill (eventhough there won't be any characters), and the same for my Waterparks and More options.

As a professional, everything makes sense, and I do understand what Disney is doing. But as a customer, I don't have to. They will be asking more for less, and try to convince me that their vacations are affordable. They will save money on my vacations.

And what amazes me is that when they announced that they would be taking steps to protect the environment by saving on the A/C, on the water, on the energy, etc... I saw plenty of contributors who implied that this was just a big lie to save money while reducing the guest's enjoyment of their resort... And now everybody seem so understanding. :)

So, yes, I do understand what their immediate goal is (mo' money, less spending)... But, as a visitor, I don't think I SHOULD accept it. After all, I do not work for them (yet... :secret:)

[BrerSchultzy]

But I have to wonder why we should be so understanding. Having no interest in Disney's profits, I am left, as a guest, to pay the same for less.


This is a fabulous point (and well communicated), but we're paying more for less everywhere these days. In the past year, we're paying at least 33% more to drive anywhere, 20% more to feed our families, and I'm not even going to mention how much we spend at movies, for a sharply diminished product (Wall-E excepted).
Since Disney does have to cut costs, I'm glad they are being sensible about it (not going to the "one park a day is closed" option, or things like that). I am so understanding, because I would rather they cut back now than mortgage the future success of the park.

True, Disney is communicating this all wrong, treating its customers like idiots (cutting back on Fantasmic so we can all enjoy American Idol?....really?), but their business plan is very sensible. No, we don't have to be happy about it, but I don't think Disney is doing this to ostracize their fans...they're doing it to keep the parks magical (and relatively affordable...we spent less on a week in Disney World than her family spent for a week at the beach). And that I can understand. In fact, I appreciate it. I would just appreciate it more if they came out and told us the truth instead of feeding us this corporate-speak.

[Ian]

Honestly, I suspect some of these changes are being made to trim costs in certain areas in order to free up money to be spent in other areas.

I'm totally fine with the whole PI change. I hate Fantasmic, so I won't weep over that loss either.

Rumor has it some pretty big changes are coming to WDW over the next 5 years ... my hope is that these cost cuts are to help facilitate that slew of new and improved attractions.

[Puppy Mom]

I still think that some of you are looking at this in waaaay too short a time table. Some of us are on this site so often that it seems like we expect it to be the 24 hours cable news with new Disney news every hour on the hour. If one month from now they announce adding some things are all of the ones talking about a net loss in attractions going to take it back?

Geez folks, you COULD have also said in some time periods that Disney had ADDED attractions without closing anything or raising prices so you would have gotten MORE without paying for it. Now as a customer that sounds fine to me but I bet NONE of you would have commented on that.

The bottom line to me is that overall there is so much to do and see at Disney that closing Pocahontas and reducing the number of Fantasmics is not going to leave us all twiddling our thumbs wondering how to kill out ime.

For ME PI was a TOTAL waste of time. NOTHING there interested me and the only thing that the new plans for the space will mean to me is a little construction dust........ and there STILL is a ton to do at Disney.

Some of us love Fantasmic but are not interested in American Idol. Personally, fireworks bore me so maybe I think adding Idol and cutting back Fantasmic is getting TWO things in that time period for the week instead of one and is an improvement.

[lockedoutlogic]

Nobody is debating that companies try to trim costs and outlays in rough times......it is completely sound....

WDW is different....Disney World itself....not the walt disney corporation....

WDW.....even in it's worst of times.....is still a huge cash generator.....in fact....the primary generator for Disney....

so while cuts are expected.....WDW is in the unique situation that they never "need" to cut costs.....

what they "need" to do is find more staffing....through outsourcing, consolidation, or pulling in better help with higher pay and benefits.....

they do need to do that for the future.....

but they don't need to save on WDW itself.....management does use bad economic conditions falsely......there.....

i know they use the money from parks to support all their other endeavours......

but from an ideological perspective.....i don't really wish to subsidize ABC or movies that flop......or Disney/ESPN/Hannah Montana mobile......

that's an idealist's perspective.....i know the pragmatic reality is that they will cut at parks to follow "trends" and "forecasts"....

[Mousemates]

Rumor has it some pretty big changes are coming to WDW over the next 5 years ....

Now theres a good thread for you to start.:thumbsup::):thumbsup:

[StrangeCargo]

A completely relevant article from Forbes.com:


With the Walt Disney Co.'s dependence on consumers' travel and entertainment budgets, many on Wall Street expected the company to fall victim to weak consumer spending. Disney has proved skeptics wrong over the last six months, beating consensus profit estimates by more than 13% in the December and March quarters and showing healthy sales growth at its amusement parks.

But concerns about consumer spending have worsened, reflecting high energy prices and troubles in the labor and housing markets. Disney (nyse: DIS - news - people ) shares have retreated close to the two-year low reached in January, presenting a buying opportunity for patient investors.

While near-term profit growth will likely be sluggish. Disney is well positioned to deliver double-digit yearly growth over the long haul. Disney, a long-term buy, offers superior total-return potential over the next 24 to 36 months.

Park Performance

Disney's parks and resorts performed well in the year ended in March, with quarterly revenue growth ranging from 5% to 9%, including an 8% increase in the March quarter. Attendance rose at least 3% in each of the four quarters, and occupancy rates have averaged 89%.

Theme parks and resorts provided roughly 29% of revenue and 19% of profits in the six months ended in March. Disney credits the segment's 28% profit growth to interest in popular themes featured at the park, such as tie-ins to the Hannah Montana and High School Musical franchises.

Also contributing to growth is a focus on value-conscious travelers: 79% of Disney's rooms are now considered midpriced or low-priced, compared with less than half of the rooms in 1991. In addition, international parks, new vacation-club sales and a weak dollar have contributed to resort growth. The dollar's weakness attracts foreign tourists to the U.S. and keeps American vacationers in the country.

Long-Term Value

In the past, Disney's parks have tended to suffer more toward the end of recessions, as families put off travel until their finances looked better. The company expects a slowdown in park growth over the next year.

While, investors may need patience with Disney, the company still has plenty going for it. Media networks (41% of revenue, 50% of profits) are delivering strong results on healthy advertising sales, particularly at Disney's cable-TV stations. Despite disappointing results from this year's Prince Caspian release, studio entertainment (23% of revenue, 21% of profits) should perform well in coming quarters, thanks in part to the popularity of Wall-E. Disney plans to release 10 animated films over the next four years.
Finally, Disney's consumer products division (7% of revenue, 10% of profits) delivered revenue and profit growth of at least 20% in the six months ended March, helped by videogame launches.


Disney shares trade at 13 times estimated per-share earnings over the next 12 months, well below the five-year average forward price-to-earnings ratio of 17. Consensus estimates project per-share-profit growth of 21% in fiscal 2008, ending in September, and 6% in fiscal 2009. Disney's valuation and modest 2009 profit target reflect downbeat expectations for consumer spending, and leave plenty of room for upside surprises.

Excerpted from the July 21 issue of Dow Theory Forecasts.

[StrangeCargo]

For those of us with aversions to long articles filled with "money -talk," I call your attention to this statement from that article:


While near-term profit growth will likely be sluggish. Disney is well positioned to deliver double-digit yearly growth over the long haul. Disney, a long-term buy, offers superior total-return potential over the next 24 to 36 months.


Meaning basically, that in the financial world, Disney itself seems to be saying what has been repeated, over and over in this thread, times are slow, and in effect, belts must be tightened. However, they are also saying that they expect things to turn up not very long from now and Forbes adds its opinion that Disney maybe in a strong position to successfully weather the economic recession.

[StrangeCargo]

How refreshing it is to find an intelligent and balanced discussion on an internet message board! Thank you all for an enjoyable read.

I think there are compelling reasons to have faith in the new Disney management under Robert Iger. It was Iger who approved of the massive, billion-dollar expansion work for DCA in California. Think about it seriously, would such a move have been made if he and the rest of managment did not realize the absolute importance of adding new attractions and improving old ones to keep the parks and resorts filled with happy people?

The question that so many here have now is, "why no new attractions for WDW?" All we hear about is closures and reductions, so where's the new attractions? Funny thing is, we are not the only ones asking that question, nothing has been officially announced for Paris, or Hong Kong after each of the major attractions that just opened there either. And fans of those parks are wondering what's next? And here is the reason to have faith.

As new CEO of Disney, Iger has not even been in charge for 3 years, it takes that long or even longer to get major projects from planning stages to construction. Something is coming. We already just had Midway Mania built, the last project approved by the old administration, but rumors are flying high that major work is coming to all the resorts, including WDW. True, these are just rumors. But never in my "career" of browsing Disney fansites have I seen such strong concensus among the rumors. There are a few threads in this very forum discussing a few of these rumors. Bottom line, patience.

[BrerSchultzy]

StrangeCargo,
You bring up some great points. I somehow managed to neglect the fact that Iger's just getting started (and so too, by the way, is Lasseter, the major player in all this). Iger and "New Walt" Lasseter will not do things the way Eisner did. See, Eisner had a "Theme Park" mindset...release a new coaster every couple of years, with some other enhancements in other years.
Now, what Iger and Lasseter do will probably be brand new, and something we never thought of. In other words, I'm not only understanding of the slowdown, but now I'm really excited that this may be the "Transition Point" for the new administration in the Parks.

Or it's a simple cost-cutting move to improve stock portfolios.

I'll stay positive for now.

[StrangeCargo]

I'm really excited that this may be the "Transition Point" for the new administration in the Parks.




Yes exactly Schultzy. "Transition point." Things are being worked out, they just have not been announced yet and maybe they should not be since they are still being planned.

The only reason we have heard about the massive DCA overhaul from official announcements was because Disney wanted to gain public support from the voters of Anaheim regarding the affordable-housing-right-next-to-the-site-of-the-third-theme-park-debacle before voting season came. Which they did. And as we know, the city council withdrew from it's support of the developer. But had that not been an issue from the beginning, one wonders if the announcement would still have been made so early on.

So early was this announcement, that details contained in it have already been changed, for the better according to those in the know. And instead of budgets being slashed as they were just a few years ago, ride budgets are growing all the time! All of which is great news for Disney park fans. So maybe nothing has been announced yet for the other resorts around the world, but that in no way means that nothing is being worked on. And I believe that the management capable of making the kind of decision that has lead to DCA's billion-dollar improvement is one that has earned atleast a little bit of faith. And wherever there is faith, we also find optimism.

[fielin]

Well those last few messages really are optimistic !

I sooo hope that you are right ! I can't wait to see what's going to be announced in the next year timeframe !

Thank you for believing, you could make me a believer ! :D

[princessjojo]

As for the changes, I’m reminded of a story I heard in a customer service meeting I attended recently.
In the early 80’s one of the Movers&Shakers of Disney management was required to spend the day with the park employees, not in his usual position but this day in an unknown position. He met with his supervisior for the day ahead of time to find out what he needed, and was told only to bring a dust pan and broom and who to meet with that morning. Through out the day he swept and swept as best he could but couldn’t help but stop constantly and answer question from tons of guest. A while later that day, they came together to see how things were going. Mr. Mover&shaker asked them how did they get their work done with so many guest stopping them asking so many stupid questions. The asked him, “what were you told your job was for the day?” Blankly, Mr. Mover&shaker replied that he was told no job title, but assumed he was a street sweeper. They all laughed and then explained: You see this plaque here, it’s given to the one who gets the most stupid questions in a day. We keep count with a small counter we keep in our pockets. We’re dressed this way basically to identify us as a part one the CMs.” Armed with this information, he returned to work over in Tomorrowland with his handy dandy pocket counter. He clicked and clicked as questions were asked. Then this frail older gentleman approached him wanting to know where Tomorrowland was. He replied that they were standing in tomorrowland. This went on a couple of times then he asked what did he expect Tomorrowland to look like? There’s aliens and spaceships…” The older gentleman replied, “I don’t know what Tomorrowland should look like, but I know this area hasn’t changed in years. It looks just like it did when I first started coming. You would think they would make changes making tomorrow land look like what we think the future would look like, not like this…”
Mr. Mover&shaker immediately dialed the others, arranged a meeting, and from that point on assured that every year, at least one area of MK would get some degree of updating to prevent this from happening again.

Now, I don’t know how true this story is, but it makes for good reason to make changes, both good and bad to the parks. We’re always looking for what’s new at the parks. Sometimes we like it, and sometimes we don’t. But in the end, we always leave wondering what will be next.

[Tekneek]

What do I think they are up to? I think they are trying to make sure they keep the Wall St analysts pleased with their financial reports, and since few of them ever go to Walt Disney World, it doesn't really matter what they are doing in the parks.