Fast Pass All Day if You Stay on Property

[NJMan66]

Universal has it right - stay in an on property hotel and you get "fast pass rights" to all rides in the park all day long.

Now I know WDW is 8 or 10 times as large as Universal and does offer early morning and night time extra hours to folks who stay on property, but isn't there something else they can do to "reward" those or "give special ride access preference" to those of us who stay on site?

Here's some Ideas I have.

1) Reserve a minimum number of Fast Pass tickets for folks who, along with their park pass, put a room key into the fast pass machines.

2) Reserve specific hours of the day for distribution of Fast Pass tickets to only those who put a room key into the fast pass machines. (e.g. Only people who stay on property can get a Fast Pass ticket to a specific popular ride between 2-4PM...)

3) Run mid-day Fast Pass access to rides for those who can present their room keys - either scheduled or on an ad-hoc/spontaneous basis.

So, am I crazy to suggest such things?

What do you folks think?

[CaptainJessicaSparrow]

I personally think you are.

I think that there are enough perks for Guests staying on property. They get the EMH, both morning and night, as well as the Dining Plan.

Also, Universal has to pay for theit Express Pass if they aren't staying- $60 and it can only be used once per attraction. Also, Universal only has 3 resorts - all of which are incredibly expensive compared to Disney. They don't have Value resorts. So IF Disney were to consider this, it should then be exclusive to those are the Deluxe resorts because of the price range if we are comparing to Universal.

I think the fairness of Disney's fastpass is what gives it that appeal.

[Gottaluvgoof]

Well, Universal does have that, but their on site hotels are very expensive and there aren't very many choices. Disney has so many more properties, that I don't know how that would work out. It would be nice, but I just don't see it happening. Also, I would hate to see Disney resort to Universal's way of selling fast passes. We paid $30 a DAY for an express pass at Universal. It was ridiculous. We only did it a couple of the days there, but if you add that to the cost of the tickets, it gets very expensive. I think I like things just the way they are at Disney.

[Wells]

Yes, you are crazy for bringing this up again....
Now, if you'll excuse me, I'll be under my chair......:hide2:

[mom2morgan]

Well, I'd sure be against it if it ends up having the same effect as it does at Universal! Talk about a struggle between the classes....I choose to stay on Disney property, which means that when I go to Universal I get to stand in horrendously long lines all day while the "upper crust" cruises past me. Of course, I COULD pay the $25 extra for each of the four of us to get their little add on...but what it he point when that is only good for ONCE on each ride, while the on-site guests can ride the same thing over and over always at the head of the line, if they wish? Nah...I'm glad Disney doesn't treat those staying off property like peasants.

[Imagineer1981]

I couldn't agree more with everyone. Disney has it right because everyone is treated the same, everyone has the right to use the Fast pass service. Universal and even Six Flags have their own programs, but they just don't get it, for them everything is about making a few extra bucks. Luckily Disney's quality and value per dollar has made them able to offer their guests free services such as Fast pass and I'd hate to see it changed

[NJMan66]

Actually the Deluxe properties on WDW property are more expensive than Universal and I am not advocating charging people for fast pass access.

I am suggesting that WDW needs to do more, from a ride access perspective, to reward people who stay on property and that they could devise a fair and creative way of doing so. This has nothing to do with the dining plan.

[MidnTPK]

You're not crazy, and I hope Disney implements something at WDW. They've at least filed patents to have the right to implement some sort of classification system for distributing fastpasses (http://www.intercot.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=114913&highlight=patent).

And at Disneyland Paris, on-site hotels have special passes that work like fastpasses.

And at the original Disneyland, there used to be a deal with AAA that let guests in Disney hotels get 'overlapping fastpasses....you could have one for every ride in the park at the same time. I loved this, but it's no longer offered.

While the idea of 'fairness' might seem appealing, it ignores the facts that a) Disney is a business that answerers to shareholders, and b) some people's time is worth more than others. Some people are willing to pay to save time, so Disney ought to offer a solution. Disney has different categories of hotels, so why shouldn't it have different categories of park tickets/or fastpasses.

I personally agree that the fastpass system is better than Universal Express, but only because of the subtlety of it. Disney could accomplish the same thing by still making fastpasses available to everyone, just special functionality for the people that want added benefits and service, and are willing to pay for it.

Think of it this way....the airlines couldn't operate if there weren't those people in first class willing to pay up. If they weren't willing to pay up, everyone in back would be paying more.

[DDuck66]

As a "local" visitor, I would hate for Disney to push this type of program. I make a lot more trips and spend a lot more money over the year than I used to whenever we just came for one or two weeks out of the year. If I had to stay onsight every time to get perks, it would definatley cut down on the number of times that we go and the amount of money that I spend over a years time.

[Jasper]

I have no doubt that Universal did their version of fast pass because of money and not to actually enhance the guest experience. I say this because shortly after Universal introduced their version of fast pass they were questioned about it at a shareholder meeting and the response was that they did it because occupancy rates at their resorts were not consistently where the company wanted them to be and they thought this could be a good enticement to get more people to stay at their resorts. To me that is pretty clear that it was all about money!:mad:

There was also a comment made about the charge for those not staying on Universal property and the response was that they felt it should be available to everyone but since those staying at one of their resorts was paying so much more to get the "privilege" of using their version of fast pass that the charge and limitations to non-resort guests was a way of making it more fair to the resort guests.

Nowhere in their responses at that stockholder meeting did they ever talk about improving the guest experience which is all Disney is getting out of their Fast Pass system. Oh sure, Disney does make some extra money because since their guests are spending less time in line that means they do have more time to spend money in souvineer shops and in restaurants. But that is a benefit to the company with either plan.

By the way, I tried to find a copy of the minutes of that stockholder meeting where this was talked about but couldn't find it. So, you will have to accept my paraphrasing and please understand that what I wrote above is not an exact, word-for-word transcript, it was simply my understanding of what was said.

[MidnTPK]

I think the big thing that puts people off about these ideas is the idea of paying to cut lines. You might be able to boil pay-for-fastpass down to that, but that would be an over-simplification.

What if people in deluxe resorts were able to pre-print their fastpasses at their resort, or schedule their ride window from their in room TV, and when they went to the fastpass machine at the ride, it spit out their scheduled window, not the posted one...would you really care?

What if people in moderates got a two hour return window, and only had to wait 90 minutes to get their next pass, rather than two hours.

What if people staying in All Star-Movies could get two 'immediate fastpasses' a day at DHS, while people at All Star-Sports could get the same, but only at the AK that day.

The beauty of the fastpass/virtual line system is that this could be done quite unobtrusively, give all guests a better experience overall, shrink the standby lines, manage crowds and buses at parks, all without any easily observable difference between guests.

And the experience for a day visitor could be exactly the same with one of these systems or with today's. So why not do this?

[NJMan66]

MidnTPK, I like this creative thinking.;)

I do not believe rewarding people who stay on property by allowing them quicker access to specific rides needs to be an all or nothing. Please read my suggestions in the original post before blasting my thoughts.

Disney does not need to make this about money or placing people into "classes." I'm suggesting they consider doing more than opening the park at 7AM or keeping it open after 11PM....for people who spend the money to stay on property. Every time I have stayed on property I have always felt a slight disconnect between the theme parks and the hotel (please folks do not blow this comment out of proportion).

[ThunderChunky21]

If resort guests had unlimited FastPass rights, then the FastPass lines would be no shorter than the Stand-by lines. Disney has so many people staying on property already that accounts for a large percentage of the people in the park on any given day.

I had read on some boards (I do not remember which one) a few months ago that they may have a kiosk (or something) at the resorts which would let you get your FastPass times at the resort rather than have to get them at the park. This would require you to map out your entire day and would take out some of the spontaneity of being on vacation, IMO.

[gerald72]

That wouldn't be rewarding on-property guests, it would be penalizing everyone else.
Plus, if you give out too many fastpasses, they no longer are effective.

[gerald72]

That wouldn't be rewarding on-property guests, it would be penalizing everyone else.
Plus, if you give out too many fastpasses, they no longer are effective.

Giving out more fastpasses isn't going to shrink the standby lines. Sure, the amount of people might be less, but it will take longer for that same amount of people to get on the ride.

[lindique]

I'm curious - I realize this would vary by season, but about what percentage of guests are staying on property?

[EditReject]

Any time you offer a perk to one group of people (in this case an all day fastpass for those staying on-site) sharing the same experience (spending time in one of the parks) with those that stay off-site, it has the potential to create animosity among guests, etc. You would not want to "punish" people who do not stay on-site but at the same time offer nice perks for those who do.

Disney gets is right. EMH are done before and after reg park hours, the dining plan is optional but at a cost if you do go with it and the buses in my opinion are a thank you for staying on property which is usually more costly than off-site. There is a method to their madness. ;)

[#1donaldfan]

There are valid points on both sides of this, however it comes down to volume.....the amount of people getting on the ride, wether standing in a FP line or standby matters not, it's still going to take you as long to get on the ride.....I like how Disney does business and they do try very hard to make it fair for all, you all gotta agree on that !!.... The lines are incredibly short during non peak times, and I understand some can't vacation during those (school year) times, but that is a suggestion to some who wish for shorter ride wait times.....:cool:

[Altair]

I'm curious - I realize this would vary by season, but about what percentage of guests are staying on property?

There are now more rooms available on Disney property than in the Orlando/Kissimmee area. If I had to guess I'd say 75% on-site, 25% off-site.

If Disney went to this policy, there would no need for any off-site folks or locals to show up since they would never be able to get on an attraction.

[BronxTigger]

I like the current system.

The free buses/transportation is a huge perk, especially with the price of gas.

I like that I can send my purchases from the parks/DTD back to my hotel for no additional cost.

I like that I can get 4 hours a day extra in the parks by using EMH.

I like the proximity of on-site hotels to the parks - especially at the Deluxe level.

I like how I can have my room key, admission ticket, and credit card all rolled into one card to keep track of. (And dining if you get the DDP.)

I think there are many on-site privileges. Disney does not seem to have a problem with under-crowded resorts, so I don't see them making huge changes at this point.

[TheRustyScupper]

1) Why do special favors for those on-site?
2) A room is a room on or off site.
3) People on site, other than EMH don't deserve other special treatments.
4) What about DVC onwers?
5) I am sure they would want even more than a regular resort guest gets.
6) So, this program could create more hassles than if left alone.
7) Besides, special treatment (aka, discrimination) was not Walt's way.
8) Plus, it is logistically a nightmare
. . . there are roughly 25,000 rooms on-site
. . . there could be 100,000 people involved
. . . there is not enough ride capacity is they all had Fast Passes
. . . visitors not on-site would be upset and not come back
. . . the parks could lose another 100,000 visitors

NOTE: The actual ride impact at Universal in minimal. Sure, Universal has full-day Fast Pass when staying on site or you can buy them. But the numbers involved are far smaller than a potential at WDW.

[Wells]

As some previous posters have stated, DLP does offer what is essentially a length of stay "Golden Fastpass" to it's club level guests, for a price. Since this is avaiable to only a small percentage of their guest on any given day, it has little effect on the wait times in the fastpass or standby lines.
My understanding is that the existing fastpass system programming does allow for these kinds of fastpasses, but it has only been used for "Golden Fastpasses", some DVC tour participants and the occasional VIP.
There has also been consistent rumors that because of the success of the program at DLP, Disney may offer a similar program at its stateside parks after the "Year of a Million Dreams" promotion is over (if it ever is....)
Either way, The off-site and day guests would still have access to fastpass under the current rules and this would in no way effect the number of avaiable fastpasses distributed for any time period....

[DizneyRox]

Every time I have stayed on property I have always felt a slight disconnect between the theme parks and the hotel (please folks do not blow this comment out of proportion).
This is because they are run out of different departments. The resorts really don't want you going to the theme parks, and the theme parks really don't care too much if you are an on site guest or not.

There are a limited number of fastpasses that can be distributed. It's a product of ride capacity (and staffing to run at a certain capacity), and some happy medium between fastpass line length and standby line length. Giing them away would definitely skew the numbers and cause havok.

A better way to manage this is to charge for the ability to do that. Therefore it is able to be managed a little better. The additional money would go to Guest Services to field all the complaints coming in from guests that don't have the means to purchase the advantage.

[dumbo ears]

Id be happy with getting extra FP for stayin on property but Im happy with what they have now.

[big blue and hairy]

No offense, but this is a terrible idea. As many rooms as WDW has, it cannot get all of the guests into their resorts in peak season, so those that couldn't get a room get upset twice. Also, if everyone who stayed onsite got unlimited fastpasses, the system would collapse. That would also mean all of the local guests that go for the day would be left out. A lot of money comes from those guests. And finally, it's just one more way Disney is better and more fair ro its guests than Universal.

:sulley:

[Mousemates]

While the idea of 'fairness' might seem appealing, it ignores the facts that a) Disney is a business that answerers to shareholders, and b) some people's time is worth more than others. Some people are willing to pay to save time, so Disney ought to offer a solution. Disney has different categories of hotels, so why shouldn't it have different categories of park tickets/or fastpasses.


Sorry, but I don't buy into the idea that some people's time at Disney is more valauble than others. As far as I know none of us is getting paid for being there on vacation( if there is some secret-shopper job program someone please let me know:mickey:), so while we're in the theme parks we're all there spending the one commodity that is most valuable to us all, our time. What a person makes per hour or per year at their business or place of employment, does not make their time more valuable when they are not on the job.

For those with plenty of disposable income there are already plenty of extra amenities (from resorts, to dining options, to recreation options (parasailing, etc) to behind the scene tours) to spluge upon (and occasionally I and my family unashamedly do). If a person wants and can afford all the bells and whistles of a Disney vacation I say more power to them and have a great time.

However, I would hate to see Disney institute the theme park equivalent of a caste system...where people on the lower end of the economic bracket, have to wait, labor and sweat in long lines while the pampered and privileged pass them buy (often with snide little smiles...and this does sadly happen, on a hot day at six flags two weeks ago, as I chaperoned a Baptist youth group I watched it over and over again).

The day Disney takes this step will likely be the day my love for the place takes a serious hit...for it would really burn me :mad: to watch the kids of parents (for whom saving up for a trip to Disney was both a dream and a sacrifice) be treated in the parks in a way that made them feel less important than the other kids in the parks. I'm willing to wait to keep that from happening.

I say, "fastpasses for all and all for fastpasses."

[lindique]

Mousemates, you did a beautiful job of saying what I was thinking. Thank you for your post.

[merlinmagic4]

Mousemates, you did a beautiful job of saying what I was thinking. Thank you for your post.

:ditto: !!!!!!

[MidnTPK]

Sorry, but I don't buy into the idea that some people's time at Disney is more valauble than others.
So when you enter WDW property (not any other Disney properties, but just WDW because other Disney resorts have special privileges for people who pay more), a magical dust comes over us all that removes the ugly truths of the real world, and transports us into Fantasyland?

Do you not ‘buy into’ mortality, disease, crime, violence, and other ugly truths ‘at Disney’.

An ugly truth is that some people are rich and some people are poor. Culturally, we’ve accepted that this is the price of a free society.


What a person makes per hour or per year at their business or place of employment, does not make their time more valuable when they are not on the job.


I’ve been a well paid professional that charged people by the hour for my services. And every minute I didn’t work, was money I didn’t earn. I had enough client business that I employed several people to work with me on the projects waiting to be completed. I didn’t earn X dollars every hour I spent at WDW….so I certainly do value my time both more and less than others. And I like minimizing the amount of time I have to spend away from work while still having a fantastic vacation.


However, I would hate to see Disney institute the theme park equivalent of a caste system...where people on the lower end of the economic bracket, have to wait, labor and sweat in long lines while the pampered and privileged pass them buy (often with snide little smiles...and this does sadly happen, on a hot day at six flags two weeks ago, as I chaperoned a Baptist youth group I watched it over and over again).


WDW parks already have a ‘caste system’…its called and admission ticket…if you don’t have the money, you can’t come in.

If you saw my other post, you’ll see that I’m not necessarily advocating the O.P.s idea. But I think there are lots of ways that Disney could further implement many things it already does at WDW to categorize guests by how they value their vacation time (see categories of resorts, and categories within those resorts) in the Fastpass/virtual ride line system…without any discernable impact to other people in the park.

[Young@Heart]

I know this is not the popular opinion, but I like the idea of fast passes for on-site guests. I don't think they should be "only" of on-siters, but it would be nice if there could be a reserve set aside exclusively for on-site guests. :blush:

[Puppy Mom]

I think that there are just the right amount of perks for DVC members and on-site guests now.

The whole POINT of WDW is fantasy. Why CAN'T we let those people who had to scrape for years to get in have the fantasy that the rest of the world values them just as much as the rich for a few days?

[mom2morgan]

I think that there are just the right amount of perks for DVC members and on-site guests now.

The whole POINT of WDW is fantasy. Why CAN'T we let those people who had to scrape for years to get in have the fantasy that the rest of the world values them just as much as the rich for a few days?

Yeah, I'm with you there as one of the "poor folk". Alright, I know what others are thinking - obviously I'm not "poor" or I wouldn't be going to Disney at all. BUT it is a sacrifice and we go without a lot of other things to make it happen. Living in Alberta, just the airfare alone is a good $2,000. We don't go to movies much, we don't eat out, birthday and Christmas celebrations are modest....because we wan't to go to Disney a couple times. And when we get there, we can't afford to stay in the hotels that would be our *first* choice (ah, for a Savannah view at AKL....), and we have to be careful with the meals budget and souvenirs. I really do kind of dread our days at Universal...I haven't been there before, but rumour is that the lines can be pretty darn aggravating with all those who can jump the queu. I'm grateful that at Disney I don't feel like I have any fewer rights and privileges than the "richer" folk.

[disneygeek84]

I think that there are just the right amount of perks for DVC members and on-site guests now.

The whole POINT of WDW is fantasy. Why CAN'T we let those people who had to scrape for years to get in have the fantasy that the rest of the world values them just as much as the rich for a few days?


Thank you! I'm glad somebody finally said it. As someone who has to save up for a year and go without other fun things just to get to Disney World I would hate to see anything change. I've gotten to go the last 3 years in a row but that was ONLY because I got married and we went for our honeymoon and then we got a HUGE tax return the following year so we got to go with my family and this year we get to go because of our economic stimulus check and we're going during free dining. But we didn't celebrate birthdays or our anniversary this year because we're saving the money to do extra special things when we're at Disney. If they started making the fast passes extra special to those staying at the deluxe resorts, that would make me not want to come much.

I'm just sayin'

[thrillme]

Ok much to many people's disagreement I LOVE the key card fast pass from Universal. It's quite "difficult" for us to stay at a Universal Hotel because it's VERY expensive and I can only stay a few days vrs double the time at Disney's Values. BUT...I need that extra time at Disney's Values because it's harder to make all the rides and you can only ride once or twice unless you have the ability to go off season. Alas...Universal only has THREE hotels...Disney has MANY more than that.

I used to LOVE the late night Magic Hour privledge at Disney when you had to pay for it. UNFORTUNATELY when it went FREE...the lines were quite lengthy and it became a disappointment. There was a time when we could simply walk up to a resturant and get in (worse case scenerio an hour wait) when there was no FREE dining and no Dining plan. Now...you may or may not get in at all unless you make reservations 180 days out.

I'm afraid if Disney started offering "fast passes" for hotel guests we would see no benefit because too many people are hotel guests.

I would like to see some benefits come back
like the "paying the fee" for staying late at a park, no more ADR's except in the case of a very large party.

I wouldn't mind seeing an extra "fast pass" (say $25) charge giving on-site guests a fast pass package in which they can pay a fee and get up to perhaps 5 one time use fast passes. They can only get this fast pass package once during their stay. As evidenced by the late night's you had to PAY for a LOT of people "for go" the extra fee.

[TheRustyScupper]

. . . I think there are lots of ways that Disney could further implement many things it already does at WDW to categorize guests by how they value their vacation time . . .

1) People need to get out of the Beltway.
2) Walt envisioned real life and a Magical Place, where dreams came true.
3) A magical place where families were equal.
4) Politicians, and those who think like them, believe in privilege.
5) Probably 99.99999999% of the USA does not.
6) I make big bucks as the President & CEO of a $500-million company.
7) I do not believe I rate special treatment.
8) People who want, but don't get, special treatment at WDW shouldn't go.

[Mousemates]

So when you enter WDW property ....a magical dust comes over us all that removes the ugly truths of the real world, and transports us into Fantasyland?
.

:mickey:I kind of thought that was the whole point of the magic kingdom, what separates Disney from other themeparks, and is also really one of the main reasons why we visit the Mouse with such regularity. :mickey: I guess I'm still idealistic (naive?) enough to still have pixie dust :tink: dreams for WDW.

We obviously have a different point of view on the issue...but that's okay, no skin off my nose either way. Hope your next trip is magical and the crowds are so light that fastpasses are a non-issue for your family. :thumbsup:

[MidnTPK]

1) People need to get out of the Beltway.

What makes you think I don’t, other than an ignorant, misinformed, arrogant assumption you’ve made? You have no idea who I am or what I do/have done, so dial down the personal attacks bud.



4) Politicians, and those who think like them, believe in privilege.
5) Probably 99.99999999% of the USA does not.


Yeah, I guess that’s why exclusive country clubs, private schools, gated communities, and first class on airplanes only exist inside of Washington DC area, and near state capitals.

[MidnTPK]

:mickey:I kind of thought that was the whole point of the magic kingdom, what separates Disney from other themeparks, and is also really one of the main reasons why we visit the Mouse with such regularity. :mickey: I guess I'm still idealistic (naive?) enough to still have pixie dust :tink: dreams for WDW.

Mousemates: I appreciate what you love about WDW, and feel the same way about it being special. And I’m sorry that I was testy earlier….re-reading what I wrote, I didn’t get my point across and I got a bit off track.

Yes, I hope WDW implements some enhancements to the Fastpass system.

I don’t really WANT it to be priced differently, but I see it as inevitable, and I don’t want others to be disenchanted with WDW if/when it does….so I hope people will embrace what could be a positive change for all.

Utilizing the wonders of information technology, combined with known human behavior that can be predicted very accurately with statistical models, I think WDW could implement a system where everybody is better off, and those who want to pay more are even more better off.

My point is that it doesn’t have to be a zero sum game. And if any company knows how to implement something where everybody feels better about a change, I’d bet Disney would be that company.

[SpaceMtn101]

But what about those people who are season pass holders or annual passholders? They spend a LOT more money than people who come down once a year in the Disney theme park. dont they deserve special treatment???

I understand where everyone is coming from on this thread but they are things you are forgeting in all this. I will use Space Mtn as an example because she is FAMOUS for this. What happens when a ride goes 101? Say its is down for two hours for mechanical issues. Think about if normally 2000 fastpasses are givin out those two hours , not including dream fastpasses, no strings, attraction reads, guest with assistance cards, and in this case wheelchair parties. All of them are told to come back when the ride goes 102. If you gave out an extra 1000 during that time for sake of argument for resort guests than you have made the standby line even more unbearable for people who are not staying at a resort hotel during a busy time of year. How does that become fair to people who cant get a disney hotel cuz all the value and moderate are filled and they have to stay off property because of not being able to afford a deluxe hotel??? How is it fair to people who hold annual passes by time taxes are factor in pay 500 for their ticket and that does not include everything else at the park? How is that fair to the family who spent 5 years saving to bring their family to Disney to be snuffed out because they arent on property???

I understand how fustrating the lines can be especially when attractions go 101. Trust me i worked merge A and B at space on christmas day and standby was a good 3 hr wait and fastpass an hour but that was from all the down times and park capacity. Sometimes you need to take in what Walts vision for Disney was a place where FAMILIEs can enjoy themselves and honestly I think people forget this concept.

[NJMan66]

I have always been taught to consider win/win solutions to problems and also to recognize things are not only black or only white.

I firmly believe there are creative solutions that add value to those who stay on property from a ride access perspective without hurting those who don't.

What I have read are posts about why this idea should or should not be considered. What I was hoping for were some creative ideas on what could be done. Here's one I just made up that is consistent with what WDW does when randomly giving out daily fast passes to guests in the park.

1) Each day, each on-site hotel, takes their guest list and randomly selects 2 rooms whose occupants receive a full days worth of fast pass tickets at the park of their choice.

Boy would that add some excitement without too much of a negative impact to those who do not stay on property.

Any other thoughts?

[avantgardeinker]

Actually the Deluxe properties on WDW property are more expensive than Universal and I am not advocating charging people for fast pass access.

I am suggesting that WDW needs to do more, from a ride access perspective, to reward people who stay on property and that they could devise a fair and creative way of doing so. This has nothing to do with the dining plan.

I think you're alienating those that can't afford to stay on property. If we can get a better deal on property than off we take it, but most of the time that doesn't happen so we stay off property, but close by. Resort guests already have EMH morning and night. What better ride access do you need? Not trying to be mean, but you're sounding a little greedy. I'm a little offended that you think you deserve more than you already get just because you're on property. Maybe I'm reading into it the wrong way. If I am, I'm sorry... just MHO.

:mickey:

[MidnTPK]

Resort guests already have EMH morning and night. What better ride access do you need?

That's' thinking in win/lose terms. It doesn't have to be that way.

Using fastpass incentives, Disney could steer people to different parks on different days. That would enable ALL visitors (on and off site) to have shorter wait times at rides because people are more evenly distributed among the four parks. And the passes could get even more granular by steering people to particular lands and rides at different times of days, freeing up space for ALL guests.

[Pop Centurion]

I think this is a terrible idea. If all on property guests had full time fast passes it would defeat the purpose of shorter wait times because now the "shorter" lines would be long. So the idea makes no sense at all.

Also, and I'm not pointing any fingers because I've witnessed it first hand at the parks. The wealthy, high class people who go to the parks with the attitude that they spent good money to go to WDW and they deserve special treatment is ridiculous. The whole mine, mine, mine.....now, now, now attitude needs to go. The rest of us spend the same money at Disney so why is your time any more important.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not bitter or anything. In fact I'm very happy for people who are well off and don't have to work extra hard to afford a vacation. But some people look down on the rest of us and think they're better and deserve even more instead of enjoying and appreciating what they have.

[avantgardeinker]

That's' thinking in win/lose terms. It doesn't have to be that way.

Using fastpass incentives, Disney could steer people to different parks on different days. That would enable ALL visitors (on and off site) to have shorter wait times at rides because people are more evenly distributed among the four parks. And the passes could get even more granular by steering people to particular lands and rides at different times of days, freeing up space for ALL guests.

Maybe I'm not understanding what you're suggesting... So you want Disney to tell us which park to visit on a particular day? I plan my vacations to the letter and I don't want someone telling me I can't go to a certain park on a certain day unless of course it's to capacity and they have to shut off entry to that particular park.

[MidnTPK]

So you want Disney to tell us which park to visit on a particular day?

I never said anything like that....you can go to any park you want.

But incentives can be created to steer people toward certain parks. Like people staying at Pop could get two fastpasses at a time in the AK one day. Or DTD hotel guests could pre-schedule their fastpasses at a resort kiosk the night before or offsite via a website or mobile phone.

Yes, some people won't want to do this, and they won't be required to. But the people who did this would free up capacity for people who didn't, making everybody better off: some people get shorter standby lines, while other get pre-arranged ride times via an enhanced fastpass system.

Some of my ideas might not work, but the general strategy is the same: use the available capacity more efficiently by distributing crowds more evenly.

[ThanxForNoticin]

Obviously, Universal and Disney have very different approaches for handling 'fast pass' or 'front-of-the-line' privileges. Universal has the philosophy that if you pay a premium, you get to use the 'front-of-the-line' treatment. It doesn't matter if you pay at the front gate or if you pay a premium in your nightly rate at one of their 3 on-site resorts - you still pay to move to the front. If you don't pay, you wait in stand-by.

In most ways, I prefer Disney's 'fast pass' approach, which is actually more of a virtual way of holding your place in line at one particular attraction without actually having to stand in the line - you can be doing something else during that time. It allows ALL guests the opportunity to shorten 1 or 2 or maybe 3 lines to major attractions throughout the day. The number of fast passes is controlled, so the stand-by lines don't have ridiculous delays (like they can have at Universal). Disney is much closer to the old 'first-come first-served' approach, and I kind of prefer that.

[SpaceMtn101]

doesn't the dream fast passes the special things that people randomly get help with that??? there are all sorts of magical moments... my favorite was when i would go up to a random family and make their day by letting them bypass the line @ space mtn...
It just annoys me that people cant just be grateful to be at Disney. Some people go their whole lives without being able to go and wish that they could afford to go. I dont understand why everyone needs to be complaining about not getting to ride a ride or waiting in a line. i honestly hated when people take it out on the CMs when the line was too long because of 101s and park capacity.
I guess i understand why todays teenagers and young adults have no respect for people because its adults who teach them to be that way. When i got to go to disney for the first time my parents did care if we waited in lines or missed rides. The whole fun is being there and being a part of the magic and honestly a lot of you have lost that magic and forgot that it all began with a mouse.
Im sry if i offend anybody but honestly Disney comes up with a lot of creative ways to make people happy .... i guess that it boils down to greed and not being happy. It is people who like to complain just for the sake of complying who makes a job as a cm the most difficult. Everybody is human and we all wish for things but honestly why do we need to complain about waiting an hour in line.
BTW i dunno if anyone has mentioned or thought about that during night EMH their are fastpasses and now at all the parks you can get one every hour.
I guess all im saying is be greatful to be part of the magic, dont complain about things, just be a part of walts vision and enjoy it .... because then it will be a muich more enjoyable expierence no mater how long the wait is.

[MidnTPK]

It just annoys me that people cant just be grateful to be at Disney.

Disney should be grateful for its customers. I'm sure they taught you that sometime during training. If you don't get that, maybe it's time to move on to another company. I bet the cable TV companies are looking for people with that attitude.



I guess all im saying is be greatful to be part of the magic, dont complain about things, just be a part of walts vision and enjoy it .... because then it will be a muich more enjoyable expierence no mater how long the wait is.

Yeah, that's what Walt wanted....things to stay the same...never make any changes to systems, shows, or rides that could be improved. Be happy with the status quo....don't make any effort to 'plus' things. That sounds just like what Walt dreamed.

End of sarcasm.

I'm not sure there's been many complains on here. There's been a lot of suggestions for changes, but few complaints from those of us who would like to see improvements to the Fastpass system (note that some of these 'improvements' exist at other Disney parks outside of WDW).

[rookie]

My attempt at a Rusty-like response.

1. Is the current Fastpass system underutilized? If not, How can you make it more effective.
2. Who's time is more valuable: a doctor when you need surgery, a firefighter when your house is burning, your child's teacher, or the CEO of a major corporation that has just laid off 20% of the workforce?
3. Resort guests will get more perks when the resorts aren't being filled.

[merlinmagic4]

Disney should be grateful for its customers.

Are day trippers (i.e. Florida residents) and people who stay off site not customers?

I guess my thought is that every person who pays admission is a customer. Once you enter the gates, every person is equal.

[MidnTPK]

Are day trippers (i.e. Florida residents) and people who stay off site not customers?

I guess my thought is that every person who pays admission is a customer. Once you enter the gates, every person is equal.

It helps if you read the whole thread.


That's' thinking in win/lose terms. It doesn't have to be that way.

Using fastpass incentives, Disney could steer people to different parks on different days. That would enable ALL visitors (on and off site) to have shorter wait times at rides because people are more evenly distributed among the four parks. And the passes could get even more granular by steering people to particular lands and rides at different times of days, freeing up space for ALL guests.

[minnie1956]

I agree that the more Disney seems to give the more people want. Free upgrades, more this, more that. I think the EMH hours, the busses, and DME are more than sufficient. I am grateful for all these things. There are people who stay @ the Resorts and don't go to the Parks. What about them? I believe once you pay your $$ to get in the front gate, everyone is entitled to the same treatment.
That's just my .02 worth.

[merlinmagic4]

It helps if you read the whole thread.

You are so rude it's actually humorous! :D I did read the whole thread and was simply asking your thoughts on who is a customer from that statement. There was no need for that comment at all. If you continue to respond to people in this manner, you are inhibiting the ability to have a healthy debate. You'll really turn people off and then you lose your credibility. No one like to be talked to that way.

[MidnTPK]

I did read the whole thread and was simply asking your thoughts on who is a customer from that statement.
I'm dumbfounded: I'm rude because I point out a previous post that quite specifically addresses your concern? I bolded and underlined the word ALL. Twice. I'm not sure how that was equivocal to you...

[Gottaluvgoof]

I don't get all the confusion. If you don't want long lines, go during off peak seasons. We go every year in September and never have a problem doing everything we want to accomplish with plenty to spare.

I realize some people can only take time off during certain time frames, but that is just the luck of the draw. Just like some people can't afford to stay on Disney property. We all have our restraints.

Seems to me the system now, is both fair and effective.

[merlinmagic4]

I'm dumbfounded: I'm rude because I point out a previous post that quite specifically addresses your concern? I bolded and underlined the word ALL. Twice. I'm not sure how that was equivocal to you...

Your comment about how I should have read the whole thread was unnecessary. All you needed to do was quote your other statement and/or answer my question. That would have been a welcome response :thumbsup:

[MidnTPK]

Your comment about how I should have read the whole thread was unnecessary. All you needed to do was quote your other statement and/or answer my question. That would have been a welcome response :thumbsup:
Very True.

I get lazy and use sarcasm and it doesn't serve me well...nor does it get the point across. It is something I struggle with. I apologize for not having said: I think I addressed my thoughts on this issue in a previous post.

[merlinmagic4]

:hands:

.....and now back to our regularly scheduled program........

[MidnTPK]

I don't get all the confusion. If you don't want long lines, go during off peak seasons. We go every year in September and never have a problem doing everything we want to accomplish with plenty to spare.

I realize some people can only take time off during certain time frames, but that is just the luck of the draw. Just like some people can't afford to stay on Disney property. We all have our restraints.

Seems to me the system now, is both fair and effective.
That's the strategy now....at WDW (and Disneyland since they ended the AAA Travel Unlimited Fastpass perk).

But Disney has positioned itself to alter the Fastpass system. It tested out customized Nintendo DS handhelds earlier this year. And it applied for patents to protect various methods of changing the Fastpass system. So the company is both exploring making changes, and protecting the necessary business processes to be able to do so.

Which doesn't say when or if it will make changes....but it is keeping the idea on the drawing board.

Personally, I am for making changes to the system. Right now, I think you take a gamble when you visit WDW. You have no idea how good or bad the lines will be when you visit. You can influence it a bit by the time of year and the minimal information we get about historical park crowds, but you have no way of knowing what your actual experience will be until you get there. And for people not willing to pull their kids out of school for a vacation to WDW, they have no choice but to go to WDW at the busiest times of the year.

Universal has created a solution to this by giving on-site hotel guests all-day express access. That's one way of giving people who book at certain hotels some degree of certainty of how long they'll be waiting in lines when they visit. But like other posters, I don't like the obviousness of the us-versus-them of that system.

So, in summary:

Using fastpass incentives, Disney could steer people to different parks on different days. That would enable ALL visitors (on and off site) to have shorter wait times at rides because people are more evenly distributed among the four parks. And the passes could get even more granular by steering people to particular lands and rides at different times of days, freeing up space for ALL guests.

[MidnTPK]

And ...

I don’t really WANT it to be priced differently, but I see it as inevitable, and I don’t want others to be disenchanted with WDW if/when it does….so I hope people will embrace what could be a positive change for all.

Utilizing the wonders of information technology, combined with known human behavior that can be predicted very accurately with statistical models, I think WDW could implement a system where everybody is better off, and those who want to pay more are even more better off.

My point is that it doesn’t have to be a zero sum game. And if any company knows how to implement something where everybody feels better about a change, I’d bet Disney would be that company.

[Rhetoric2000]

I'm sure I'm not alone on this board in having a story similar to this:

- I went to all of the parks over the period of Christmas and New Year 2006/7 with a group of 8.

- This included SEVERAL days in which parks ran at capacity.

- With reasonable planning and a bit of nouse it was possible via the current marvellous FastPass system AND the use of common sense to visit any combination of park attractions in a day that we would have wanted.

- This ability to visit all/most of the attractions in a park was shared by every single guest that visited the park in those days.

- All the people who didn't take advantage of this and were stuck in long, long lines either A) Managed their time poorly B) Did no planning at all or C) Wished to use a single attraction to a premium extent, riding it over and over.

The day that it is not possible for somebody who plans well and uses common sense to enjoy a park in a single day (if that is all the "valuable time" one has) I would have little to no problem in subjecting FastPass to a surplus charge or OnProperty benefit. The case against it at the moment is neither some kind of anti-capitalist statement of equality, nor even about simply being fair; it is the fact that it is totally unnecessary from both a business point of view, and that of the guest.

Not even approaching necessary.

[mrsgaribaldi]

We go off season like 99% of the time so long lines are not a problem for us. I actually like waiting in some lines, it builds the excitement. If a line is to long, we just skip it.


Off topic, what does this mean?:confused:

1) People need to get out of the Beltway.

[MidnTPK]

Off topic, what does this mean?:confused:

It was a personal attack on myself, a resident of Washington, DC. It had northing to do with the subject of the discussion, but was a snipe at me meant to diminish my opinion.

"The Beltway" is the circular highway that surrounds Washington, DC. Rusty was using it to suggest that I was out-of-touch with regular people in the rest of the country.

[Mrs Bus Driver]

I’ve been a well paid professional that charged people by the hour for my services. And every minute I didn’t work, was money I didn’t earn. I had enough client business that I employed several people to work with me on the projects waiting to be completed. I didn’t earn X dollars every hour I spent at WDW….so I certainly do value my time both more and less than others. And I like minimizing the amount of time I have to spend away from work while still having a fantastic vacation.

Sorry you feel that way, may I suggest a touring plan to make the most of your time. I think one of the reasons so many people like Disney parks is the fairness. We all can do a little planning and use the fast passes or you can be footloose and fancy free and go with the flow. Please remember it's a vacation not a competition. Relax, have fun.

[lockedoutlogic]

any suggestion that disney should start tinkering with the fast past system and create different "tiers" of it is a recipe for disaster....

I know they're GOING to do it.....but other parks that have different pay levels of ride reservation systems seems more trouble than it's worth.....

and the impact on lines of the most popular atttractions in each park could create alot of head aches....especially with new E ticket type rides.....

I'm much more in favor of them increasing ticket prices across the board to cover the costs/ desired profits from the fast pass system than implementing pay as you go.....


but again...they are going to do it.....we all know it.

[Goes4FastPass]

Tiered FastPasses are inevitable. I don't like it but I know it will come.

I have a coworker who was asking me for advice (as the local Disney nut) about planning his family trip: "I want to stay where I can see the castle and I do not want to stand in lines I don't care how much extra it costs." He couldn't believe he couldn't pay extra for no lines.

There are already tiered availabilities at WDW. You can't buy Sunrise Safari even if you do the CRT thing and call at 7am 180 days out - you must be a AK concierge/club level guest. Does EMH decimate against non-resort guests? Have you ever walked by a soon to be opened attraction during a DVC member or AP preview period?

Want to "hop"? Pay extra. Unused days never expire? Pay extra. Unlimited FastPass? Pay extra. Can't you see how the progression really fits? "How come I can't hop?" "You didn't pay extra" "No Fee-air. I'm gonna pout."

The day is coming when people who pay more for their room at WDW will get treated differently in the theme parks. Disney is a publicly traded company. It's not Gepetto and Jimminy Cricket sitting around and discussing what's the nice thing to do. As soon as the bean counters at the Disney Company decide the revenue from people who want to pay more to wait less will exceed the losses from the bad feelings of those who don't want to pay, all of our discussion about should they or shouldn't they will become moot.

[Disneyatic]

I am going to be brave and post now.... :thedolls:


Disney should be grateful for its customers. I'm sure they taught you that sometime during training. If you don't get that, maybe it's time to move on to another company. I bet the cable TV companies are looking for people with that attitude.

Yeah, that's what Walt wanted....things to stay the same...never make any changes to systems, shows, or rides that could be improved. Be happy with the status quo....don't make any effort to 'plus' things. That sounds just like what Walt dreamed.

End of sarcasm.


I don't think personal attacks are necessary, the poster wasn't talking about never making improvements, he was referring to enjoying the magic. I agree with SpaceMtn101's comment that people should be grateful to be able to be in WDW. Many people don't ever get the chance, so why worry about small details and lines when at least you are in line at WDW and not at the supermarket.

I also agree with you that Disney should in turn be grateful for their guests, but as has been stated many times, they are a business and if I don't go, someone else will.
They already offer many perks and pay-perk options for both on and off-site guests. The parks and hotels are already packed with the system how it is, so what is their motivation to change??



It just annoys me that people cant just be grateful to be at Disney. Some people go their whole lives without being able to go and wish that they could afford to go. I dont understand why everyone needs to be complaining about not getting to ride a ride or waiting in a line. i honestly hated when people take it out on the CMs when the line was too long because of 101s and park capacity.

I guess all im saying is be greatful to be part of the magic, dont complain about things, just be a part of walts vision and enjoy it .... because then it will be a muich more enjoyable expierence no mater how long the wait is.
I agree, too often we get caught up in the negative and forget to be happy or grateful for what we have. Like I said, if I have to wait in line, at least it's at Walt Disney World! :mickey:




Personally, I am for making changes to the system. Right now, I think you take a gamble when you visit WDW. You have no idea how good or bad the lines will be when you visit. You can influence it a bit by the time of year and the minimal information we get about historical park crowds, but you have no way of knowing what your actual experience will be until you get there. And for people not willing to pull their kids out of school for a vacation to WDW, they have no choice but to go to WDW at the busiest times of the year.

Universal has created a solution to this by giving on-site hotel guests all-day express access. That's one way of giving people who book at certain hotels some degree of certainty of how long they'll be waiting in lines when they visit. But like other posters, I don't like the obviousness of the us-versus-them of that system.

So, in summary:

Your suggestion about structuring the system to try to direct crowd flow to certain parks at certain times/days is a good idea and definitely has merit.
Don't get me wrong, I don't like lines just as much as the next person and if I had a choice, I would choose walking straight on over waiting an hour. But really, can you expect to go to a major theme park and not wait in lines? I don't think it's practical.
Yes, Yes, at Universal you can buy the pass and not wait.....but there are still people who have to wait at some point and I don't think that a FastPass that you can purchase is a good idea. I hate the idea of having to pay for yet another "ticket".....
I think that lines are part of the package of a theme park vacation, with some planning you can still have a blast and just don't worry about the lines. The ride queues are awesome on most rides and can help make the waiting more enjoyable.

[BelleCiavo]

When I stay at Universal I've got to admit I really enjoy the Express Pass privilege. The Universal hotels are very reasonably priced for their class, they are expensive compared to Disney Value and Moderates, but not compared to the Deluxes which, as much as I greatly prefer Disney, I'm sorry to say they exceed.

[MidnTPK]

I don't think personal attacks are necessary
I’m sorry I’ve been a little testy at times on this thread…not sure why I’ve been in a funk this week, but I apologize and I’ll try to do better.

This was only on the context of this person being a CM. I was little harsh, but a CM should never downplay a customer’s concern, even on his/her free time her on Intercot. Remember, Walt’s attitude was “If you can dream it, you can do it”, so if a person can imagine changes that might make things better, the company, and its CMs should look into it.

But really, can you expect to go to a major theme park and not wait in lines?
Nowadays, the answer is yes.

As you point out, Universal Orlando has a solution
As do most Six Flags parks
As did Disneyland (The Original)
Disneyland Paris has special Fastpass perks for on-site hotel guests.
And so does Tokyo Disney

I think that lines are part of the package of a theme park vacation
I’m saying they don’t have to be.

I might be wrong, but I bet the ideas I’ve previously mentioned might improve everyone’s experience.

And I haven’t come up with these ideas out of thin air….I focused on operations when I got my MBA, and there’s tons of ways that WDW could better utilize its existing capacity.

[SpaceMtn101]

Mid i challenge you to work merge a or b at space mtn on Christmas day or 4th of july when park is at capacity ... there has been already a few 101s and the fastpass line is at least a 45 min wait and standby 2 hrs... and its either way too hot, way tooo cold, or rainy.

Yes i understand that you want more fastpasses but where would more fastpass get you in that situation ... the line for standby and fastpass will just get longer and longer if there were to give out more. OHRC for a ride like space is hard because its only 6 ppl to a train. Unless you have a good merge and grouper it dont matter how many fastpasses you have people are going to be complaining.

I also have to ask why do you feel that resort guess are the only ones who should get special privleges??? Why shouldnt people who buy annual passes??/ Universal has that you buy an annual pass you get after 4pm unlimited fastpass uses. What makes resort guess higher class????

Even CMs have to fastpass or wait in lines with everybody else and dont get special fastpasses either.

I guess maybe you should look at it from the other side and see how it feels to have to deal with the people who want to complain when fastpasses ran out after a few hrs and they want to threaten you from an inch of your life. Its not any easy on the other end either.

[Mrs Bus Driver]

As you point out, Universal Orlando has a solution
As do most Six Flags parks
As did Disneyland (The Original)
Disneyland Paris has special Fastpass perks for on-site hotel guests.
And so does Tokyo Disney

We went to six flags magic mountain one summer. Made the mistake of trying their so called fast pass. First of all I had to spend 45 minutes in line to buy them, found out that for $15 we got 4. There were 4 of us so we decided to save them for 1 special ride. Riddler's Revenge had a 2 1/2 hour wait, so we got in line. We moved right up to the loading building and waited an over an hour in excessive heat. No AC and little or no air movement. After waiting so long I didn't know it but my DD wasn't loaded properly. You feet are supposed to dangle her's were flat on the ground. She went around the entire coaster like that. Her feet were sore and we left shortly after that never to return. Just because it says fast pass doesn't mean it is. Just because they charge for it doesn't mean its worth it. Disney does a very good job of spreading people out and everyone can use so it I will keep coming back.
I will say that I have used the fast pass at Universal in Cali and while it was nice to have it wasn't necessary. Most days Universal in Cali isn't very crowded. Also at the time we bought annual passes for the cost of a 1 day pass online about $65 each so the $20 front of the line pass didn't seam like such a big expense.

[MidnTPK]

I guess maybe you should look at it from the other side and see how it feels to have to deal with the people who want to complain when fastpasses ran out after a few hrs and they want to threaten you from an inch of your life. Its not any easy on the other end either.
I have sympathy for you....I can hardly imagine what CMs have to go through some days. But I don't think you (as a CM) should be complaining about customers/guests here on a fan site....ever.


I also have to ask why do you feel that resort guess are the only ones who should get special privleges??? Why shouldnt people who buy annual passes??
I don't think I've ever said that resort guests are the only one who should get the benefit. Quite the contrary, I think I've insisted that everyone could be made better off.

And I don't claim to have the details of how the special cases, like APs, DVCs, and anybody else would be worked into the system. But I'm quite confident there's many ways to work it out.

Yes i understand that you want more fastpasses but where would more fastpass get you in that situation ... the line for standby and fastpass will just get longer and longer if there were to give out more. OHRC for a ride like space is hard because its only 6 ppl to a train. Unless you have a good merge and grouper it dont matter how many fastpasses you have people are going to be complaining.
Of course there will be operational hiccups. The suits will have to figure out how to handle that. But that's not a good enough reason not to try.

And I don't think you get what I'm suggesting about making changes. I'm not talking about just having the machines spit out more fastpasses. I'm talking about harnessing the power of computers and statistical models of human behavior, using fastpass incentives, and managing crowd flow at the entire resort (all 4 parks).

[Capt. Sparrow]

Here's some Ideas I have.

1) Reserve a minimum number of Fast Pass tickets for folks who, along with their park pass, put a room key into the fast pass machines.

2) Reserve specific hours of the day for distribution of Fast Pass tickets to only those who put a room key into the fast pass machines. (e.g. Only people who stay on property can get a Fast Pass ticket to a specific popular ride between 2-4PM...)

3) Run mid-day Fast Pass access to rides for those who can present their room keys - either scheduled or on an ad-hoc/spontaneous basis.

So, am I crazy to suggest such things?

What do you folks think?

Here is the problem that I have with this...

I always stay on the wdw property, BUT, I do not use my room key for my pass. Every year I buy a season pass bc my family and I usually visit a couple times within the year period and it pays itself off usually midway thru the 2nd trip. Also, with the amount of hotels Disney now operates, I still think that the fastpass lines would still be almost as bad as they are today (a clear example would be EMH).

[Goes4FastPass]

...
It just annoys me that people cant just be grateful to be at Disney...I thought the Disney Company was supposed to be grateful that I choose to spend some of my vacation dollars at their Florida resort.

Disney did not create their FastPass system because, as Jimmy used to say at the end of each Mickey Mouse Club, "Why? Because we like you!" they did it because people when asked about visiting Walt Disney World complained of long lines to the point is was hurting potential sales.

Also, a guest who is standing in line isn't spending money so you walk to Kilamnjaro Safari and get a FastPass that says, "Come back in an hour" At this point you can't get to another attraction and back so what are you going to do while you wait? Gift shop? But no one wants to schlep that mug around all day. No Problem, they'll send it to your resort. Why? Because they are a business. and the additional sales created by package delivery justifies the cost of providing the service.

FastPass was, from it's conception to the present and into the future a matter of what's good for Disney's bottom line.

My niece dosn't think of Disney as a business. She's a child.

[SpaceMtn101]

but mid what you still are not getting is if you add MORE fastpasses it does not make the lines shorter. I used space as an example for a reason because on a busy day it will at least go down once and it backs everything up even if it is a simple cascade that is at least 20 min to 30 min of a down time ... if a evac its at least an hour or more. Adding fastpass just complicates and makes the lines longer for an attraction like that.

Yes I understand where you are coming from. I dont like lines either but when i am a guest there i have to wait like everyone else so i understand.

my point about looking at it from the opposite end is i wanted you to understand that sometimes even though we may not think something is fair or right or can be fixed yes but think about on a busy day how many times a cm gets yelled at for no fastpasses ... fastpass line being too long... or standby being too long.

That is why now during night EMH all the parks give out fastpasses so you can have a better oppertunity to ride the major attractions especially during peak times.

I do agree there could be a better system but until they do away with the dream fastpasses because they honestly give out ALOT of those in a day... there is no way you can add any to this system because both lines would just be unbearable.

[Disney_Barbie]

I strongly disagree w/ NJMAN66. I feel that disney's fast pass system is "practacly perfect in everyway" and that universal's has MANY MANY flaws.

[Disney_Barbie]

I have sympathy for you....I can hardly imagine what CMs have to go through some days. But I don't think you (as a CM) should be complaining about customers/guests here on a fan site....ever.


I don't see why not. I mean both we as loyal disney guests as well as CMs can recognize that there are some mean, rude people out there and some of which happen to go to disneyworld.
I don't think this CM was trying to complain about all guests. Just the rude threatening angry ones, I'm not a CM and I complain about those people, why can't the CM's complain about them also?

[FutureCorpsFan]

I like how Disney does business and they do try very hard to make it fair for all, you all gotta agree on that !!.... :cool:

I have to agree.. I'm not sure Universal has it right. The concept of paying for exclusive access to attractions because park managment already recognizes their business model is to fill a theme park to capacity anyway seems a bit wrong to me.

The Disney model does seem fair as it is now, without loosing it's integrity. The EMH do provide the added benefit, even if it is limiting in some parks, but you have to admit they already are catering to their resort customers with transportation conveniences and other perks. Attractions were the primary focus in the past, but I think the reorst as a whole has much more to offer than just the attractions.

[MidnTPK]

but mid what you still are not getting is if you add MORE fastpasses it does not make the lines shorter.

When have I said MORE???? You ASSUMED more. What if the system steered people to different parks and lands and pre-scheduled their ride time the night before. And fewer passes were actually issued per attraction.

I'm talking about a change in the way people visit the parks at WDW, not just some tinkering with the current FP system. Fastpasses wouldn't be responding to the guests that arrive each day...they'd be influencing where they go and when they go each day.

And being incredulous at that idea is understandable...I'm not certain that my ideas are possible or practical. But just bashing them doesn't get anywhere.

[dnickels]

I really don't mean to sound like a jerk when I say this but....

I'd much rather spend my time at Disney with people who can relax and enjoy the magic/atmosphere, even if it includes some time spent in lines and talking with other people than someone who needs to optimize their ratio of rides ridden to money lost because they're not working.

I enjoy the system as it's set up now and of course it can be improved. I think one nice thing would be if Disney could provide guests with a breakdown of the current park capacities when you drive in (i.e. MK is 50% full, Epcot is 30% full, etc.) so that visitors would know which parks are less busy but as for the 'my time is more valuable than yours so I should be able to cut in line if I pay more' argument I'm glad that right now at Disney our time all has the same (roughly anyway) value.

[Stickey]

It is a good idea for Disney to analyze FP distribution and useage to determine if/where improvements can be made.

We know the following:
1) Disney is planning modifications to the current FP system.

2) It would not be feasible for Disney to match Universal's front-of-the-line access for resort guests.

3) It is not acceptable for guests to act in an uncivil manner toward CM's because there is a long line,FP's are no longer available, a CM enforces safety rules, or for any other cause of dissatisfaction.

4)A paid FP system is not a good idea.

5) From a business perspective, resort guests are better for Disney's bottom line. Examining methods to reward these customers and increase the likelihood of return visits ON-SITE is sound financial management. The recent move to push the DDP and DME service are examples of this objective.


This is not a have's vs. have-not's issue. The original intent was discuss the merits of increasing benefits for WDW resort guests.

[MidnTPK]

Imagine...

Imagine a new way to go to WDW...never wait in a line longer than 15 minutes again.

Imagine pre-scheduling your ride times the night before...or winging it the day of....go only where the lines are shortest, when they are short.

How could this miracle be possible? Let me introduce the WED-R2D2 hand-held communicator. About half the size of an iPhone - and water and shock proof. It has a touch screen interface and wifi capability, just like the iPhone. Its integrated GPS can locate where on WDW property you are.

The WED-R2D2 is standard issue in every room on WDW property. Units are also available at the kiosk at DTD and in many resorts in the WDW area. They can also be obtained at the entrance to every park for (with a $30 deposit). Get as many as you like, but you must put a deposit down for each one, and return it at the end of your trip..or mail it back when you get home if one got dropped in your luggage accidentally.

It recharges overnight in a base station, but can be swapped for a new one whenever you want at many locations in WDW parks and resorts. Lose your R2 during the day? Don't worry. Nobody else can use it because its disabled the moment you report it missing...and your family's picture is seen by the CM (on his/her control panel) each time you use it.

The R2 is your guide to WDW. In the parks, you use it to find your way around...it will even give you directions if you like! It knows when every show, parade, and character greeting is in every park.

It also is your universal fastpass ticket. Want to ride Pirates? Touch the Ride It! icon. R2 will tell you how long the standby line is, or will give you several other times during the day when you can ride it. When your ride time rolls around, just flash your R2 at the entrance CM, and be on your way.

But if you booked the prior evening via R2, your in-room TV, or R2s website (which is mobile phone enabled), just follow your previously scheduled itinerary.

But uh-oh...Space Mountain is 101 (having some technical difficulties). R2 will alert you to this and ask you if you'd like to reschedule, and adjust all of the other ride time windows for the remainder of your day. When it starts to work again, an alert will let you know and will ask you if and when you want to ride or just skip it today.

But R2 isn't just for scheduling rides, it does more.

Running late for a ADR because of something going 101? R2 will alert your restaurant and tell you whether or not you can reschedule.

Want pizza instead of burgers for lunch...find out where they have what you want and touch the Eat Here! icon and get step by step directions. Get sidetracked? don't worry, R2 knows where you are and where you want to go.

And now photopass is instantaneous. When your photographer takes a picture, it immediately get loaded to your R2 for you to enjoy for the next 14 days.

And on your way out, make sure you go to the transport screen and tell Mickey where you'll be going. He'll be sure to call a bus driver, boat capitan, or monorail pilot, and will have you vehicle ready as soon as possible.

So make sure your family picks up a WED-R2D2 the next time you visit!

[MidnTPK]

Now I know this makes the civil libertarians cringe. But I guess I don't mind Mickey watching over me when I'm in his house.

But a system like this could let Disney tweak the fastpass system in millions of ways. They could let deluxe hotel guests pre-schedule their rides three hours earlier than moderates, and moderates two hours before value. Or it could be tied to if you bought a premium park pass or a 'value' ticket

And DVCs, AP holders could be classified where ever they want, depending on what category the decided when they bough their pass, as could CMs and others. Offsite guest could have similar options.

And guests could be incentiveized to go to different parks on different days, based on a scale of how much flexibility will be offered by the fastpass system in that park, for you, that day. You could be assured passes basically whenever you wanted in the AK one day, but you wouldn't be able to get any FPs in the MK that day...and you'd know this before you entered a park. and room would e left in the system for the spontaneous people....but planning would be rewarded (not just because it makes a guest experience better, buy Disney is better able to staff the parks if it knows who's coming).

Yes, the system might be extraordinarily complex and complicated behind the scenes, but very easy for a user. The user would have standby times and fastpass times, and have a limited number of choices in front of them when they actually have to make decisions.

[lockedoutlogic]

I don't see why not. I mean both we as loyal disney guests as well as CMs can recognize that there are some mean, rude people out there and some of which happen to go to disneyworld.
I don't think this CM was trying to complain about all guests. Just the rude threatening angry ones, I'm not a CM and I complain about those people, why can't the CM's complain about them also?


most of this thread has devolved into chippiness....

but i have to agree with the above poster.....

The guest needs to fundamentally understand that the exhorbinant amount of money they pay to vacation does NOT go to the rank and file employee....

disney wages are minimal....and are in many cases not living wages in central florida....they would be no where close in more expensive geographic areas....

so I, we.....as guests....have to understand that workplace frustration in WDW is normal and should be expected to a certain extent....

In fact, I think that by and large the 60K employees do a very good job of holding it together and presenting a still respectable....if diminished....display of customer service....based on their wages, schedules, and living conditions.....

perhaps none of the rest of us has worked 8 hours on thanksgiving, christmas, new years, memorial day, the fourth of july, and labor day before?

they do....more often than not....they work in a place where it can be above 90 degrees 3/4 of the calender year......they are subject to mandatory 6 days when it's slammin and mandatory 4 days when it's not......regardless of their own bills.....

there are constant complaints by guests about "rude behavior" among CMs....

there are many cases where it is warranted....

but if the average guest would agree to hold their complaints and tempers some times......it would be a much better experience for everyone.....

ok....back to the topin :thedolls:

[Mousemates]

Mousemates: I appreciate what you love about WDW, and feel the same way about it being special. And I’m sorry that I was testy earlier….re-reading what I wrote, I didn’t get my point across and I got a bit off track.


Sorry about the delay in replying...wasn't ignoring you...but left for a week at WDW and just got back late last night....had a great time, very busy, but still was able to ride everything we wanted multiple times with the fastpass. If they can improve the system, I'm all for it, but a two-tiered fastpass (on property vs. off property) just seems a bit un-waltish to me.:)

[jszczur5]

I haven't read every single response to your question, but it appears that most people like the system the way it is. I have to agree.
We stay on site so that we can take advantage of free parking, EMH and the DDP. While a minor enhancement to Fastpass would be nice, it doesn't need to be anything as drastic as the Universal plan.
I'd be more than happy with the additional benefit of being able to hold 2 FP's at once.