College admission requirements

[O'MalleytheAlleyCat]

My DS is a junior in high school this year and at the moment has a 2.9 GPA. He just got results back from the ACT test he took earlier this month and scored a 35 composite! Obviously he doesn't give too much effort at school. He can do well on the tests and doesn't bother too much with the homework. To say we've tried everything from restrictions to rewards, yelling and talking, mandatory study hour, etc...wouldn't even scratch the surface. So...now he wants to look at colleges. I think he's beginning to realize that he needs to step it up until graduation and get better grades, but I'd love to hear about someone's recent experience with college admissions. How much weight do they give to GPA, ACT score, class rank or classes taken? Since he's my oldest this is the first time for us to encounter all of this stuff. Thanks!!

[crazypoohbear]

The best thing for you both to do is go to collegeboard.com and set up a profile for him. You punch in his GPA and his ACT scores. Then you find colleges that he is interested in attending. there is a link on the bottom right for that college that says " how do I stack up" this will show a chart on where he falls in this year freshman admissions.
So if he looks at Harvard vs. a state college he would be higher up on some and lower on others. That is a great score on the ACT!
His GPA is good but here in MA even the state colleges ( UMASS) won't take anyone with a GPA lower than 3.00 :confused:

IF you son is serious about getting his act together have him also scout out scholarships now so he can see why he needs to buckle down. Have him look at the cost of the college he is looking at and then ask him how HE will pay for it! Then explain that kids with the highest GPA get the best scholarships and some even get "a full boat"

[Dulcee]

I would suggest going to the Princeton Review website and poking around there. It was a life saver to me when I applied.

I'm currently a college junior who's in the process of looking at graduate schools (it never ends:shake:). My younger sister is currently a high school junior who has just started looking at schools too.

Anyway, how much weight a school puts on test scores and GPA is really going to vary. Smaller private schools are going to spend more time looking at an individual's class choices, whether you've taken AP or honors courses or foreign language classes, then big state universities. On the other hand big schools tend to use test scores as a way to weed out applicants early. Another important aspect is your son's letters of recommendation and his essays. Most schools will require two letters of recommendation from teachers he's had as well as a personal essay. Both of these can really help students who don't look fantastic based on GPA and test scores alone. Another really really important aspect is that of activities outside of classes, sports, clubs, community service. Year after year Ivy League schools turn away students with 4.0 GPAs because they aren't well rounded. Having a perfect score on the SATs isn't going to make a college go wow! being a well rounded student who shows an interest in life outside of just class will. That said, job experince can be helpful too.

Personally I think the most important thing is if at all possible to go visit some schools and get and idea of what kind of school your son is interested in. (Its also a reality check on how quick college is coming.) You can take tours, talk to students and professors and get an idea of what he wants to get out of college. Talking to schools is also a good way to find out how financial aid works. For me it actually turned out to be cheaper to go out of state to a private school that offered me a scholarship then stay instate with higher federal funding, but thats not always the case and state schools can be a great option to students who aren't going to recieve a lot of scholarships.

You mentioned ACTs but you didn't mention SATs, some schools (mostly state universities) do require SAT scores, others reccomend taking them, so you may want to check into that early if your son hasn't taken them.

I know its alot to take in but best of luck with everything!

[Mickey07]

I know that many state colleges will not except anyone below a 3.0, but the ACT score is pretty amazing. I would try applying at different schools, but if they still can't get into a big university I would apply for a community college, get really good grades, and then transfer to big school.

[DisneyDudet]

When I was going to OU, they had just a few requirements. There were different requirements for in state and OOS students. I made the cut by my ACT score, but also had the GPA for it.

Now that he knows he can do it, he might start getting better grades. Also, there is no shame in a community college for the first few years to help with study skills and increase GPA. I left OU and went to a community college, then was able to get into a nursing programe with NO problem. THis also saves A LOT of money!

[Kidsmom]

My husband works in higher ed. Lots of schools look at everything...the whole package. Even with him starting to buckle down, they won't ignore the past 2 years worth of grades. With the difference in GPA and ACT he needs an interview at what ever school he is looking at. He can explain to them why the descrepency (sp?) and try to sell himself.

Any school that someone really wants to go to....you need an interview now a days...even if you think you are a shoo-in. If there are 25 people pretty much the same as you and 2 more spots...they would only consider the ones with the good interviews. You wouldn't believe how much I hear from people that someone got into a school their child didn't, even though their kids scores were better.

Good Luck!

[Mrs.Mickey]

I know that they do look more favorably upon the SATS then the ACTs. You also didnt mention if he was doing any extra curricular activities. If he he still has some time if he pulls it above a 3.0 he should be ok. If not he could always go to a community college for a semester and then reapply based on his grades there. Good Luck!

[KineGirl]

My daughter is also a jr in high school. I have pushed pushed pushed school and good grades since forever. Her GPA is hanging around 3.4 , shes in the top 25% of her class, she scored well on ACT and not so great on her first SAT's. She would like to be a meteorologist (which is alot of math - her worst subject) and after doing some looking around she found she liked PSU. We just happened to be driving by there last fall so we decided to make an appt with the dept head & admissions rep to see how things work. The school was fabulous! The head of the meteorology dept seemed impressed with her but really had no pull with admissions. When we got to the admissions guy he wasnt exactly overly enthused with her GPA - mind you this is a top school in the country so I wasnt too surprised at the difficulty to be admitted but at the same time I had no idea how many 4.0 kids are out there. He said the first thing they look at is 4.0+ (GPA) and then next they start taking the highest SAT's - he said her extracuriculars didnt really matter. Though he did say that he was impressed with her in person and they do have instances where ppl will be on the line and they have to make a call. If they met the person and were impressed def has an impact as opposed to just reading about them on paper. Heres another couple of tips he gave me: if the desired school is costly and your child and/or you have to go into deep debt to go there - wait until the 3rd if not 4th of college to attend that school - attend an instate school in the meantime. Some degrees differ but alot dont even let you do classes that involve the major until then. That way instead of being in possibly 80-120 thousand dollars debt (again at a top school) - you could reduce that debt in 1/2 or 1/4. Still a good deal of money $$$$ 2) if, like my daughter, the desired major may not be their strong suit (MATH), dont apply with a major because that will be considered into the admittance process and undecided majors arent as closely scrutinized. Once the child is actually in the college - they can choose whatever major they want. We will apply to PSU but are going to have some less scrutinizing but good programs, back ups ready :thumbsup:

All that being said. I got into a decent school with a 3.0 GPA and just ok SAT scores (ODU in VA) so its varies from school to school. Its far from hopeless. Like you said hes starting to see the reasons why grades are so important and he has all next year and the end of this one to pull it up a little! I also recommend taking him to see a school he may be interested in attending and setting up an appt to speak with an admittance counselor. It could spark a fire or help put things into a more realistic perspective as far as what effort in school is needed.

Good luck! Im sure it will work out fine!

[Dulcee]

He said the first thing they look at is 4.0+ (GPA) and then next they start taking the highest SAT's - he said her extracuriculars didnt really matter.

Wow, in all the interviews and college tours I did while looking I had no one say that to me. And I interviewed at some hardcore schools (Duke, Georgetown, Vassar). They all stressed grades AND extracurriculars. Guess it just goes to show you it really depends on the school.

[PirateLover]

It really varies from school to school. Some schools will definitely still take him with those grades, but he obviously won't be a candidate for scholarships. As far as state schools, I know people who got into Penn State for example, however they couldn't attend the main campus, they had to go to satellite campuses or attend summer school. I know people who were accepted to colleges with low GPA and SAT scores and no extracurriculars. Obviously they weren't the better schools but still, they got their degrees.

[KineGirl]

Wow, in all the interviews and college tours I did while looking I had no one say that to me. And I interviewed at some hardcore schools (Duke, Georgetown, Vassar). They all stressed grades AND extracurriculars. Guess it just goes to show you it really depends on the school.

I know! I was surprised myself and have to admit - I felt a little defeated because I always stressed things like the school paper, yearbook, chorus - shes always been involved with something because I thought it mattered. When he said that - she just loooooked at me - she hasnt exactly loved journalism this year. We spoke with a Duke rep at College Day here and thankfully (for my sake!) they were interested in her extracuriculars. It does go show how different they all are.

[ElenitaB]

I was going to say the same thing as DisneyDudet. Your DS would not be the first to build up a more solid academic record at a community college before applying to other schools for Jr/Sr year.

I was never in admissions but I did teach college for a few years (as a Teaching Assistant at UC San Diego). My best students without a doubt were those who took a break from academics at some point between high school and college. Nothing like exposure to the demands of the working world to make one appreciate the value of an education (my own parents did a variation of that with me and I worked every summer, mainly in factories, and attended community college to gather up credits so that I could graduate college early).

Good luck!

[MsMin]

With professors that I've discussed admissions working for testing services as a psychometrician I was told that the GPA is looked upon by many as a measure of the student's motivation and not necessarily their aptitude. There are many students who fail to matriculate because they don't have the ambition, goals, focus, maturity, finances (many reasons). They look at the GPA as a readiness factor. The scores from ACT or SAT exhibit the ability- not that one can't succeed with a low score but higher scores indicate that students are ready to handle the college level. Next extra curricular demonstrates the student's exposure and shows the student can handle several activities at once -- well rounded.
In many cases it's not that they don't bother with GPA or test scores but they have so many applicants they don't bother with splitting hairs at that level.
My dd's bf scored a 33 on the ACT and had a 3.2 and he was turned down at LSU (he had only 3 yrs of HS records b/c he was Canadian). I helped him appeal and was able to get him enrolled after a semester at the local community college. You can make a difference and many people don't know you can appeal the decision.
Many schools also have classes that are required and I know here they only look at your academic courses to determine your GPA for scholarships so building a GPA with fluff classes will just be thrown out and could even hurt you.
The best place to start is to have a plan as to where you want to attend and see how your son's record compares to their requirements.
Best of luck with your planning. My dd just got into LSU's vet school and I spent a lot of time exploring the best avenue to prepare her for her goals.:thumbsup:

[PirateLover]

I should've also told you about my fiance. He was not a very good student and really wasn't interested in college (this was due to the fact that he had mild dyslexia that went undiagnosed in the public school system his whole life until I came along. They just said he had a reading problem...but that's a whole different issue). He ended up doing one year of culinary school then quit. Later on he went back to a community college and got his associates. Now he's looking to go back and get his bachelors. Many community colleges do have reciprocity with local schools so that is a good route to take as well.

[katzctkpt]

My dd will be a jr this coming yr and we have already started looking at college stuff. Any good websites to look at for scholarships etc...?? She wants to be a chef at Disney where else.

[KineGirl]

My dd will be a jr this coming yr and we have already started looking at college stuff. Any good websites to look at for scholarships etc...?? She wants to be a chef at Disney where else.

I sent you a PM

[crazypoohbear]

I just wanted to add that you child WILL get into college!
Don't be like so many high school guidance councilors and tell him that he won't!
NOTHING is more detrimental than telling a kid they won't amount to anything.
Some of my son's classmates have lower GPA's and SAT scores and were still accepted at good schools.
While it is great that he wants to improve next year And this is good and WILL help!
There is a college for everyone. Whether it is community college, trade school etc. He WILL get in somewhere!
Please be positive for him. nothing hurts a kid more than negative. As long as he is working towards bettering himself then Kudos to him

On a side note it seems that colleges on the east coast are more interested in the SAT's while colleges on the West of the mississippi are more prone to the ACT. Some colleges don't even use those tests any longer. So check out the college requirements on Collegeboard.com

[pink]

What really helped me when I was preparing to apply for college was actually our local newspaper! Towards this time of year they would always show the average SAT/ACT score for each local school and what the average GPA was. It was very helpful so you might want to keep an eye for that if your DS is planning on going to school locally. Good luck! :mickey:

[princessjojo]

That whole college thing, I don't envy you at all. I have a neice that is graduating this year and going to UNC-CH, another graduating next year going either to Campbell or UNC-CH. They are both very focused in school and similiar in extracurriculars in and out of school. The thing I have found interesting lately is the decreasing amount of relavence schools are placing on test such as ACT and SAT's. Though I don't recall the actual schools, some of them now don't even use them as tools in decision making unless it's a last resort in determining acceptance.

Our older DS is in 7th grade and is part of the Duke TIPS program. He gets no really big advantage from it other than experience and a few opportunities. He is going to take advantage of summer enrichment classes they offer, at the tune of $500-$800 and he actually took the SAT in Dec. Considering that he was a 7th grader taking a high school college entrance exam, he scored over 1250 and his scores were explained as better than 35% of 2007 graduating high school seniors who entered college. He actually lost most of his points in his written essay and a few more in the math. But he now knows what to expect and what he needs to do to prepare for the exam again in the future. If he had actually scored a lot higher, he wouldn't have had to retake it in his senior year. No such luck. He actually hates school, refuses to turn in any work he's done, won't do homework, but ALWAYS scores well on class test. His grades reflect this inconsistancy with B's and C's.

Back to your original point, I agree that with some kids, local community colleges are a good place to steady their ground and better prepare themselves for the bigger schools. It also gives them time to work on areas that they can to increase their grades. I've seen many kids, even those with very high grades do this.

You may also want to look at the pathway your child is in at school if there is one. Some high schools have "pathways" that the child follow that taylors their curriculum to their preferred carreer path. For instance, our schools have 4 pathways, technology, vocational school, carreer pathway, and 4yr college pathway. It helps determine what classes they should take.

Good luck with the search and discovery process. I'm following you and am making my own notes.

[pink]

Back to your original point, I agree that with some kids, local community colleges are a good place to steady their ground and better prepare themselves for the bigger schools. It also gives them time to work on areas that they can to increase their grades. I've seen many kids, even those with very high grades do this.

I also agree that this is a good idea. Many of my friends didn't care much about high school and they graduated, but not with flying colors. There parents sent them to communtiy college when some of other friends were away at school and having a great time. Some of them still fooled around and don't take school seriously, but a bulk of them have buckled down and started focusing on there work. They're starting to realize that it's not meant to be all fun if you want to have a good career a few years down the road. Hopefully your DS will realize this, good luck and keep us posted! :mickey:

[Kairi_7378]

My experience with colleges has been similar to PirateLover's (both of her posts.)

I think another reason to read the Princeton Review or another such guide is to make sure that your son is taking all of the requirements that are expected from the schools that he may be interested. Find out how many years of math, science, or language are required at his top choices. These requirements differ from school to school and are part of the whole "package" that you present to Admissions.

[O'MalleytheAlleyCat]

I was told that the GPA is looked upon by many as a measure of the student's motivation and not necessarily their aptitude. There are many students who fail to matriculate because they don't have the ambition, goals, focus, maturity, finances (many reasons). They look at the GPA as a readiness factor. The scores from ACT or SAT exhibit the ability- not that one can't succeed with a low score but higher scores indicate that students are ready to handle the college level. Next extra curricular demonstrates the student's exposure and shows the student can handle several activities at once -- well rounded.

I agree. My DS definitley has a bit of a motivational problem. His thought is "why do homework when I can get an A on the test". His ACT test indicates that he could do better if he tried. However, if I were an admission counselor, I'm sure I'd be inclined to want the student that HAS motivation vs. one who appears not to try!

We did take a visit to a small college here in the midwest (which is why he took ACT instead of SAT...more popular here) on Friday. He actually qualifies to get in even with his current GPA. I think he's ready to buckle down a bit more and lift that number however to qualify for more money from that school if he decides to go there (they said everyone who is admitted qualifies for some type of merit award). I also know he'll qualify to get into the Big Ten school right here in our backyard (Go Hawkeyes!) because he lives in state.

He does have extra-curricular activities, so hopefully that will help. He's a theater/music kind of guy and also very involved at church. We're just hitting the tip of the iceberg here and I certainly appreciate all the advice from those who have been there before or are also going through this same thing. :mickey:

[MsMin]

He sounds so much like my son... I'm hoping that this is enough of a wake-up call for him. My son didn't worry about grades especially homework. He did graduate w/ a 3.2 but mostly b/c he was in honors classes which boost your GPA. His AP chemistry teacher told me he only played on his calculator in the back of the class yet he tested out of Chem (for his major I think he got 5 credits) He just wasn't driven and it's SOOOOO frustrating as a mom to watch them play when they could do so much better. But if it helps... my son, after his first year, realized he couldn't just play around after losing his scholarship b/c he dropped a class and didn't have enough hours, he stayed on the dean's list after that and ended up 5th in his class in Internal Auditing. Many boys wake-up. Hopefully you won't have pulled out all of your hair before he does.
I know at LSU it's easier to enroll for the summer right out of HS and get in that way then for the fall b/c the competition is lower. Your son definitely has the ability so his best bet is to work the system to his advantage. :thumbsup:

[Disney Doll]

With professors that I've discussed admissions working for testing services as a psychometrician I was told that the GPA is looked upon by many as a measure of the student's motivation and not necessarily their aptitude. There are many students who fail to matriculate because they don't have the ambition, goals, focus, maturity, finances (many reasons). They look at the GPA as a readiness factor. The scores from ACT or SAT exhibit the ability- not that one can't succeed with a low score but higher scores indicate that students are ready to handle the college level. Next extra curricular demonstrates the student's exposure and shows the student can handle several activities at once -- well rounded.


I work in higher education and I have to agree. In general GPA is considered to be a better predictor of college success than test scores. I know that applying for college is a big deal and can be stressful for all involved. I would caution everyone about making too big of a deal out of college admission. Your son's ACT score is excellent and the GPA is not too bad. He will get in somewhere. He may not be able to compete for top spots at a prestigious university, but the education is more important than prestige anyhow. Attending a state university or starting with a community college is absolutely fine. Actually for an undergraduate degree I would recommend a smaller regional college over a large research institution. Research is the focus of a research institution and teaching sometimes is a lower priority. Anyhow, encourage your son to do his best, but don't stress if he doesn't produce a 4.0. Sometimes I think parents put too much pressure on kids about these things and then the kids feel totally doomed if they don't get in to their first choice school.