Disney's Night Kingdom - your thoughts?

[battle beast]

What are your thoughts? It sounds very, very different to me...:confused:

[CaptainJessicaSparrow]

Considering it's not going to happen, I'm not putting too much thought into it. Other than if Disney were that desperate, it'd be a complete failure.

[GrumpyFan]

First off, Disney's Night Kingdom is a new idea that Jim Hill has mentioned is in development at WDW and supposedly slated to launch soon and open around 2011. I don't buy it, at least not in the manner in which Jim presented it. I am thinking of something more like the following.

I know that this idea is supposedly in development, and details are sketchy at best, but still the whole idea left too many unanswered questions for me and overall it just didn't sound like a good fit for WDW. Two of the bigger questions for me, 1) Why only operate after 4pm? If this is supposed to be a unique sort of adventure or park even, with new attractions and offerings, what’s stopping it from being open during the day during regular hours? Seems like a waste. 2) Why on earth will it require 4000+ cast members to run this new attraction/park? That’s a lot of people, what will they all be doing?


In pondering these two questions about this supposed new park/adventure, and taking into consideration a few of the other things Disney is working on, as well as the rebuttal comments that Lance Hart at Screamscape had, I believe I may have an answer or at least an alternate idea. Mind you, this is pure speculation on my part. I have no inside information and no contacts at Imagineering, but thru some deductive reasoning and creative thinking, I’ve come up with an alternate idea of what Disney’s Night Kingdom just might be. But first, let me try and expand on how I conjured up my idea.


It’s no secret that Disney has been looking at new ways to generate more revenue, and reach the more affluent clientele who have a lot more disposable income and think nothing of dropping $10-50K for a lavish, and exclusive vacation. Obviously, the new Four Seasons will help address some of this by giving these more affluent guests luxury accommodations. According to an article in the Orlando Sentinel, March 28th, written by Scott Powers, there may be another level of accommodations the affluent will be able to stay in if the plan to allow private homes on-property moves forward.


So then, the question comes up, with these more affluent guests coming to Walt Disney World, what then can Disney offer them that would meet their expectations and draw some of the cash out of their deeper pockets to give them the kind of experience they would expect and cherish? First, we need to understand their expectations. While I’m not among the affluent, I’m just guessing they don’t want to be surrounded by 50,000 other guests with screaming kids, strollers, body odor, cutoff t-shirts, etc, and waiting in line for an hour with “common folk” to ride It’s a Small World. No, I’m thinking they’re going to want their own front of line experience that everybody else visiting WDW in the middle of July could only dream about and they’re willing to pay for it. I think they’re also going to want a restaurant or two to eat at that’s not overly crowded and has something to offer that can’t be found elsewhere.


So, how can Disney offer this kind of exclusive VIP experience to the affluent 1 percent visiting without upsetting the other 99 percent? The only feasible way that I can see them doing this is to offer an after regular-hours kind of experience. They already do something like this in the form of Extra Magic Hours (EMH), where they allow only resort guests to stay in the parks for extra hours after they close to non-resort guests. In theory, it shouldn’t be too difficult to offer a similar kind of experience, but even more exclusive and expanded to offer more than a typcial EMH.


Why not offer something akin to an all access, to ALL PARKS, EMH? Let’s call it “The Ultra Keys to the Kingdom tour” or maybe, “Disney’s Night Kingdom”. Call it whatever, but make every park, or most every park open to only those guests willing to pay the extra bucks, allowing them to ride the most popular rides, and throwing in a few extras here and there like their own personal guide to take them wherever they wanted to go, and within limits, ride whatever they want, as many times as they want. I think this helps to explain the 4000 cast members, and by offering it after regular hours, the other question is also answered.


If DNK were to run from 4-12 or maybe until 1am, then the parks that were open could be closed a little early on DNK nights (if necessary) in a staggered manner. Then the parks would re-open in a rolling window kind of manner for DNK guests as follows:

AK 5-8
DHS 7-9
EPCOT 8-11
MK 10-12 or 1
* These hours are just an example. Depending on other events, they could vary greatly.


There is still the remaining question of food and an exclusive place for these guests to eat. I offer two thoughts on this. 1) A brand new, highly themed restaurant, maybe taking ideas from the Adventurers Club like Jim alluded to. 2) Buy out the Rainforest Café at AK, and use this property for a new exclusive eatery. I’m not sure what kind of deal Disney has with the owners of Rainforest, but this location just seems like it would be a perfect home for hosting the gateway for such an exclusive new “adventure” like DNK (or whatever they call it). Alternatively, they could use the Tusker house buffet as the starting point for this adventure, or better yet, they could build a new restaurant and other attractions in the back of AK where the Wildlife Express train runs, Rafiki's Planet Watch.


They could start DNK at the restaurant around 4 with dinner and each party would meet their personal guide for the night. During dinner they could plan what they wanted to do for the night. Once dinner is finished they would then be escorted to the parks and do the things they planned.

Something else to think about, along these lines. The original ideas for DNK presented by Jim didn't really sound too appealing to me, not something that I personally could see myself shelling out $200-300 for. But, look at this from another angle. A single day, single park ticket is $80, which is quite expensive, and a price that a lot of guests might not go for. But, if you could have one-day (8 hour) exclusive access (or near) to all the parks, and the most popular attractions for around $250, with little or no wait, wouldn't that be a more enticing offer? It would to me, and if I was only in town for one or two days, I might go for it.


This plan is far from perfect, and there would be lots of other little details to be worked out, but I still think it's feasible, and a potential money maker for WDW. The basic idea here is to give a limited number of guests acceess to as much as possible during their "adventure" in the parks with very little or no wait time on everything. So, essentially, they could see and do much of WDW without having to wait like the masses.

[battle beast]

after a second read, I thought it was a really weird idea.:confused:

[chick20679]

From what I've read, it actually seems like a pretty cool idea.
For some extra money, have once in a lifetime experiences, disney-style? I'd be game.

Not that I'll ever to be able to include it my vacations - I'm mean $300pp is a bit excessive. Same as Sea World's 'Discovery Cove'. Looks super cool, but I'm not sure we'll ever go. I can find other ways to spend that vacation money.

All in all though, I think it's a great plan. Very exciting.

Maybe, eventually, they'll offer a package (like free DDP) where a one day admission will be free!! That'd be cool! :cloud9:

[DDuck66]

Anything that comes from Jim Hill is always suspect...it seems that very few of his "predictions" ever turn out to be true. Lets face it, the 1% affluent are not likely to go to WDW for a nightime experience even if it is above and beyond what you would normally get at the parks...a couple of hundred dollars is not what these people spend. They will easily drop 5 to 10K for a special event. What would Disney offer in that price range???

[wire0monkey]

There's a series of novels based on a place called "Dream Park" by Steve Niven and Larry Barnes. Dream Park a large number of highly interactive live action role playing games which go on for extended periods of time. Example: You get to pretend to be a pirate in an immersive adventure for an extended period of time.

If a place like that is ever created, Disney will be the people to create it. It would require that many CMs to run it, because they have to play characters to fill out the "world."

And Disney characters can go very well with a creepy, dark-side theme. "Kingdom Hearts" is a great game and it's both creepy and very Disney.

That said, I doubt this is going to happen. Disney didn't want to buy the rights to the Harry Potter park experience because it was too much to build and run. This would be just as much.

On the other hand, maybe Disney is thinking of some sort of immersive experience to compete with the Harry Potter experience that Universal is creating.

[CaptainJessicaSparrow]

Disney doesn't need to compete with Universal's Potterland.

Epcot alone does more Guests per year than both USF and IOA combined. I don't think it will be an issue.

[HeyMrsL!ItsThisGuy!]

idk, seems kinda lame. for an extra 50 or 75 dollars i think that would be great, but there' just not enough there that entices me for that price.

[Ian]

Sigh ... another Jim Hill fabrication that grows legs and refuses to die ... :shake:

It's not going to be another theme park. It's a proposed after-hours event at Animal Kingdom.

In that context, it makes perfect sense.

[JPL]

All you have to do is look at logistics to understand why this is not going be a new theme park. A large percentage of the money spent building on AK went into animal care facilites and enclosures. Everything they built used cutting edge technology. That being said with these types of facilities already in place why would they want to duplicate them in another location at great expense. They could make the after event take place at AK and save a small fortune on facilities since they are already in place and any addition for Night Kingdom will only enhance the park for day guests. If this event is ever announced prepare for Jim Hill to go on about what it could have been if only.......

[Ian]

If this event is ever announced prepare for Jim Hill to go on about what it could have been if only.......Actually, if he follows pattern and is proven wrong (which happens quite a bit) he'll just ignore it and never mention it again.

[elmjimmlm]

I am going to ask a ? and I hope that I dont get laughed off of here but who is Jim Hill?

[GrumpyFan]

I am going to ask a ? and I hope that I dont get laughed off of here but who is Jim Hill?

Not a stupid question.
Jim Hill is a blogger who writes about Disney-related things. Supposedly, he has contacts inside Disney that give him juicy bits of information about what's going on or what's coming. But more often than not, it seems like he's either making up stuff or being fed some "big fish" tales. Regardless, his stories are usually entertaining if nothing else.

[elmjimmlm]

So he is like a Disney tabloid?

[JPL]

I think a tabloid might be more truthful ;)

[GrumpyFan]

New information to add to the Night Kingdom rumor. Screamscape posted the following on 4/25:


Today I have to officially change my stance on the whole Disney’s Night Kingdom park concept. New information has come to my attention proving that the concept is indeed in the works for Walt Disney World and shooting to open possibly in 2012. From what I’ve been told the history of the project comes from a desire by Disney to create their own version of a high-end Discovery Cove style mini-park experience mixed with an original proposal for a major overhaul and expansion to the existing Adventure’s Club at Pleasure Island.
From the sound of things basic funding has been approved to proceed on with the design of this small but expensive project, but it’s not without some serious design challenges and still isn’t exactly the experience that Jim Hill had previously described. The big attraction and icon of the park, right now, appears to be a large central Disney-made mountain structure where guests will be forced to ‘rock climb’ to the top, take zip lines down again and explore a serious network of caves. The goal is for this to be a very interactive game based adventure experience, with both mental and physical challenges. The tricky part of the design process they’re said to be in now involves balancing it all out so that it doesn’t become so physically difficult that guests will become too pooped or intimidated to play while at the same time, they have to be sure they aren’t catering to the bottom end and make it all far too easy and boring for everyone else.
As for the game aspect, it seems that the test run of that Kim Possible Communicator game at Epcot a year or so ago was just a large scale concept test for the Night Kingdom game concept. The idea is to equip every guest with their own communicator unit that will guide them from place to place, push them in the right direction when they get stuck, and be used to help solve the various games, puzzles and adventure challenges. Your communicator will also serve as a way for the park to identify you individually as a player and customize your interactions with the various game stations and animatronics. Fuzzy robots wont be the only things you interact with however, as there seems to be a plan in place to develop a number of encounters with live animals as well.


Call me skeptical, but I'm still not overly impressed with this idea. While it sounds mildly interesting, it almost sounds too interactive, and too demanding for the average guest. Is Disney aiming to try and draw a different kind of guest? I know there are "serious" thrill seekers who go to exotic places for this kind of adventure, but will they come to WDW for this kind of thing? Will they consider WDW for this kind of thing? If they do, I'm guessing it won't be more than once. So, that leaves me wondering, just what their plan is with this?

[Ian]

First off, I still file this under "I'll believe it when I see it ... "

Secondly, I'm sorry but this whole idea just sounds completely stupid to me. Is this really what people want when they come to WDW??

Why in the world would I fly to Orlando and pay $300 to zip line? If I want to zip line, I'll go on a zip line tour. If I want Disney World, I'll go to Disney World.

I really think WDW management needs to be completely replaced. They have just totally lost focus on what they need to be doing down there. It's one hair-brained disaster after another.

Discovery Cove works because A. it's swimming with dolphins which is like an iconic experience and B. it's at Sea World where people actually expect to see dolphins.

Who goes to Disney World expecting rock climbing, zip lining, and spelunking?? :confused:

[Patricia]

Who goes to Disney World expecting rock climbing, zip lining, and spelunking?? :confused:


Wouldn't that be all the same people that rushed in to use Disney Institute's rock climbing wall? :rolleyes:

Sarcasm aside, gaming is growing (the average player is in their early 30s) and the future doesn't show any slow down in that trend. With more women jumping on the game board, the idea of a "real life" gaming (with some added thrills) may not seem that far fetched in a few years. The only draw back is how do you make it interesting enough for repeat business?

[mjstaceyuofm]

First off, I still file this under "I'll believe it when I see it ... "

Secondly, I'm sorry but this whole idea just sounds completely stupid to me. Is this really what people want when they come to WDW??

Why in the world would I fly to Orlando and pay $300 to zip line? If I want to zip line, I'll go on a zip line tour. If I want Disney World, I'll go to Disney World.

I really think WDW management needs to be completely replaced. They have just totally lost focus on what they need to be doing down there. It's one hair-brained disaster after another.

Discovery Cove works because A. it's swimming with dolphins which is like an iconic experience and B. it's at Sea World where people actually expect to see dolphins.

Who goes to Disney World expecting rock climbing, zip lining, and spelunking?? :confused:I agree completely with everything you say here. I don't see this happening, but if it does happen and is paraded out there as a "high-end" experience I will be really upset. There's so much more that management needs to accomplish at WDW rather than adding a "live" virtual gaming experience. The parks all need significantly more TLC and ride capacity. There's so much unused space and shuttered facilities within each park it's pathetic at times.

If the WDW management team green-lights this, I'm with Ian - it's time for a total change because they just don't get it anymore. It seems like the only things they do are add a decent ride every once in a while, barely refurb rides that should have been refurbed years ago, add outside vendors to property and build DVC resorts.

Oh yeah - the Disney Institute ceased existence long ago. So it would seem they tried a very expensive rock wall a long time ago and watched it fail. Don't they learn from their mistakes?

[GrumpyFan]

The more details that come out on this the more I think it is starting to sound like a marketing driven "sampler" package for the Adventures by Disney vacation group. Something that would whet the appetite for visitors to WDW and maybe convince them to book their next vacation doing some of the things that Night Kingdom offers. If so, I'm ready to give it a big :down:

[Ian]

The only thing I will say about this is that if it turned out well and created a big new revenue stream for them, at least it would have the potential to be invested elsewhere in the parks.

Not that it necessarily would be, but more cash coming in can't hurt.

[CaptainJessicaSparrow]

If we kick all the heads out, can I have one of their spots? I promise to listen to and consider all of the views and opinions Disney fans have. I will do my best to ensure that everything I do wil be the best thing for our friends and families from all over the world, and make our Guests and Cast Members my top priority. I will Disney into a new height that has never been previously scaled and pushing the boundaries of creativity. :soapbox:

Sorry, it's an excerpt from the speech I'm working on for when I finally do get Meg or Bob's position. :cloud9: