How do I say No when I hate to say No?

[princessjojo]

I love my “oldest younger” sister and most of her family dearly. She tries hard, works 3 jobs to take care of herself, the children and her husband (sometimes) and deserves a great vacation. Last summer, we began planning a vacation with all of us, 8 total. Since then it has gone off the deep end & I don’t know what to do. My youngest sister was also going to be in Orlando at the same time so she was going to join us in the parks for a few days and at dinner and it would be all great. Not quite……

A little history…
My BIL, who I am growing to detest little by little, is a recovering drug user. It happened accidently after surgery and they kept pumping pain killers into him and this was his result. I can understand this and superficially accept it. But when he fell off the wagon and waved it along a few years later, I was angry, but encouraged when he took it upon himself to seek treatment. I thought it was very brave of him to do this. My sister didn’t tell any of our family until 4-5 months after he was away and their daughter let it slip. She still never told my dad or step-mom anything and doesn’t know that they know. Well, the wagon picked him up again and let him ride for a while. He found a job, gained weight, & looked great.

About 4 months after we began planning our trip, I’ve booked the room with my DVC points. Initially it would have been just the 4 of us in MY family going every year. Now we are having to skip a year to take them. I’m ok with that, really. But it leaves a bad taste today with regards to my BIL.

I read in the newspaper after the trip was booked and planned that he had been arrested at a local bank for trying to steal money from his mothers account. He had forged her signature on a check he had written to himself for about $1500. His mother had the charges pressed, he went to jail for 2 weeks because they wouldn’t bail him out. It was all drug related again. He then found another rehab clinic for 30 days (ha!) and went. My sister told him he was not allowed back into their house until he could prove to everyone he was clean again for good, found a job and was able to keep it, and proved himself worthy to their family.

We removed him from our reservation and I decided to add my youngest sister in his place. It would be great!!! Now the older sis. Is planning for him to go AGAIN! That makes 9 in a 2br. Doesn’t work until the younger sis goes back home. And the kicker is, BIL still hasn’t been to court yet. He may not even be able to go (I hope). Do I really want him to go, no. But I do want their family to go and the kids are really looking forward to it. I want to encourage him to do better, but have little faith at this time.

My problem is, in the end someone can’t stay with us and I have to tell them to go elsewhere. Who do I tell and how? Heck, I’ve at this point paid for all of everyone’s ticket to everything, with exception of airline and I’ve paid for 5 of nine tickets. I don’t expect the younger sis to pay for much, as this was her Christmas present. But at some point, if BIL is going, he better find some cash somewhere, or else I have tickets for later use.

Any suggestions???

[Hair_Razor]

It starts with the same letter as "never" nnnnn and rhymes with "go" oooooo, it goes together like NNNNNOOOOOO!!!! You don't owe anyone anything. It sounds to me like if he has gotten a new job and still has court obligations he shouldn't even think about going. Disney will be there later if he is in a better place it will be incentive for him to spend a family vacation. If his children were failing in school he would not reward them, he has not earned his trust in the family. I also think he puts everyone at risk what if he happens to have packed some of these pills with him and maybe your kids get their hands on them>? Accidents happen. He doesn't have a track record that proves he is capable of being responsible. Your sister needs to understand this. It will also allow her some time to let BIL to be alone and prove himself, that he doesn't need to be babysat. Good Luck!!

[Marilyn Michetti]

You mentioned one thing that stood out like a bolt of lightning. "She's planning for him to go AGAIN". I read this as, she did want him, then didn't, now does". You're paying for this trip, so I think when he canceled, and you filled his spot with your younger sister, the issue is closed. All you have to say is, "sorry, you weren't able to go, so I asked my sister". If he wants to go now, let him get a room.

I realize you're between a rock and a hard place, because your sister still has feelings for this guy. You love her, but I think you should take this loophole and pull it shut. Some fun time away from him would be good for all of you.

Armchair psychology is 20/20, but I hope this works out for you without ruining your trip.:(

[MsMin]

I am going to agree with Marilyn. When reading btwn the lines (and I don't know these ppl) I see a tendency for your sister to "hide" his problems. Just like consequences for a child a person who has addictive problems has to face the consequences and the fact is you filled his space. Sorry... You can't tell them how to live but you don't have to "enable" the situation. :(... I feel for you b/c it is so difficult and I'm sure that you and your sister don't want to see anyone suffer. His problems can cost him a lot more than a vacation b/c if his family gets tired of this behavior he may lose it all so basically you are doing him a favor by having him take responsibility for his actions....
:pixie: and have a wonderful trip...

[Bri]

i also agree with everyone here. esp since your sis said she didn't want him to go and now she does. first of all, it's your money and you get to make the final decision. second of all, since it's your money, you get to say that his spot has been filled by your younger sis and if your sis still wants her hubby to go now, they should pay the extra money to get another room. i don't want to be a downer, but if he goes, i could see this whole vacation being a disaster, esp since you are really starting not to like him. it's your vaca and it's your points that your giving up next year so you can include everyone this year. you get the final say and if your sister doesn't like it, she doesn't have to go either. you don't HAVE to be covering the majority of her costs. you're doing it cause you love her and you want her and her kids to have a good time. if she can't respect that then maybe she doesn't deserve your generosity. sorry to be so harsh but i hate when people take advantage of something like what you're trying to do. good luck with everything!

[playdead88]

its your money and your vacation too remember - BIL is just that an in-law so you didn't owe him anything to begin with - i say cut him off now - why risk letting him ruin your vacation anyway - take your sisters and have a wonderful time :mickey:

[BigRedDad]

This is a very simple decision. Blood is far thicker than water. Tell the dead beat loser (sorry to be harsh, but that is what he is) he is not welcome. If he chooses to argue, then it affects your sister and her family. I have little sympathy for a drug addict. I do not care what it does to their brain, but I guarantee no one is holding a gun to their head to pop a pill or shoot up. It is a choice they make and they choose it over their family. Therefore, they do not deserve the family.

I am sorry to be abrasive, but your family needs to put a restraining order on him. The next thing you will read in the paper is when he tries to sell one of your sister's kids for drugs or worse.

[TheRustyScupper]

1) You can pick you nose.
2) You can pick your car.
3) You can pick where you live.
4) But, you can't pick your relative or their spouse.
5) Not taking him could risk the relationship with Sis.
6) Grin and bear it.

NOTE: I have an in-law, but due to the wife I just put up with the annual or semi-annual visits. I even put up for a week when they elbowed their way into our vacation.

[princessjojo]

I thank and respect everyone's opinions here. I will say that he has tried in the past. And BigRedDad, I generally agree with what you've said, but here I know the history and do know how this began. It's similiar to the child with sickle cell who we, as healthcare provider, push drugs on to make him feel better. And 10-20 years later he's the drug seeker we all talk down to, but we've created this. I've seen it recently time and time again in our peds unit. So from that perspective, Yes, I do feel for him. I watched his doctors create his problem while he was in the hospital. They addressed it and took the doctors for their word that things would be ok and here we are today.

My issue is that I know he wants the best for his kids. He wants the best for my sister. He has no "tools" to work with anymore. I know you all are right in what you're telling me, but I guess I just feel that if I tell him no, he'll interpret it as being rejected yet again and that no one really has any faith in him.

Thank you all again. Yes, your words are harsh, but they are also true and I appreciate that.

[Disney Doll]

I would just address the situation like any other cancellation (never mind the reason). Explain to your sister and her husband that when BIL had to back out you filled that spot with another person. You cannot hold his space especially since he is still not able to fully commit (court date).

Apologize to your sister and encourage her to still plan to come and bring the kids. She should understand. Ultimately this may be a blessing in disguise- a chance for you and your family to reconnect without BIL and a chance for BIL to take responsibility for his actions.

Best of luck! I know this is a hard position to be in, but you can't please everyone.

[Tinkerfreak]

I think you should just sit your sis down and nicely explain to her that you are sorry but you have allready told little sis she can go in his place. Let her know that it is not personal and that you would love BIL to go but you have allready told little sis she can go. At that point the ball is in her court and she can decide if she wants to pay for him to go or not. I know you feel bad but you have done your best and it is not your fault that he couldn't go and now she wants him to. I also agree that he needs to focus on keeping a job and that won't happen if he goes on a vacation.
Good luck with this and just remember to make sure your sister knows that it is nothing personal against him but you just made other plans.

[TheRustyScupper]

. . . I just feel that if I tell him no, he'll interpret it as being rejected yet again and that no one really has any faith in him . . .

1) Not just him, but also Sis.
2) Remember
. . . an injury can be resolved
. . . a grievance can be worked out
. . . an actual or perceived sleight can linger for years
. . . and, sleights can have repercussions/retaliations
3) This could hurt Sis as much as BIL.
4) After all, it is BIL's and Sis' problem more than yours.

[diz_girl]

I feel terrible for your sister, who seems to bear the brunt of your BILs problems. She needs support from others in her situation, which means that she needs to go to Al-Anon (hopefully she can find the time, with 3 jobs), if she doesn't go already. Although I doubt she goes, as she is trying to keep some pretty big secrets from you (the arrest), so she is still an enabler. Suggest to her that she needs help too and that Al-Anon can help her.

That being said, it was her decision to kick him out, and you have every right to do what you wish with your reservation, including giving it to your other sister. Your oldest 'younger' sister is probably so caught up in her problems that she doesn't realize the difficult position that she's putting you in. Ask her how she'd feel if she was in your place and was asked this of her, or in your other sister's place and told that she couldn't go. Just tell her that next time that you go to WDW, if he's well, he can go too.

The fact that your BILs own mother pressed charges against him does not speak well for him.

One last thing, since he's out on bail, can he even leave the state? This sounds like bank fraud and probably a felony, so he may not even be able to leave the state without permission from the court.

[teambricker04]

1) You can pick you nose.
2) You can pick your car.
3) You can pick where you live.
4) But, you can't pick your relative or their spouse.
5) Not taking him could risk the relationship with Sis.
6) Grin and bear it.

NOTE: I have an in-law, but due to the wife I just put up with the annual or semi-annual visits. I even put up for a week when they elbowed their way into our vacation.
You are a much better person than I am!


I think the bottom line is that you want everyone to be included. I think that you should talk to your sister and BIL as Disney Doll said and tell them that you had to make sure you had the spot filled and your other sister was interested. Maybe, if they could afford it, they could stay in another room or at a different resort. I just think that you should be truthful and up front... let them, or your sister, know how you feel. You may be surprised in their response...

[bleukarma]

I think your decision has been made up for you. If he is looking at a felony (which is what he committed…he would have to have a pretty good lawyer to get it brought down to a misdemeanor) then I doubt he can leave the state until he's off of probation...which is what he should be on now if he's not in jail. Would your sister want to make matters worse for him and her family by taking him to Florida? I doubt it. He needs to stay home.

On a more personal level, if your sister told you that he isn’t going then she is out of luck when you filled that space. Would she want to kick her younger sister out of a WDW vacation? Because that’s what she would be doing if he went. It’s not fair to your younger sister and it’s not fair to you. Just explain to her that the Disney only allows X number of people in the room and with younger sister going you meet that quota. Her husband just won’t fit back in. If she doesn’t understand then sorry…go to WDW with your family and have fun. You are already being too generous. I hate people who look a gift horse in the mouth.

[princessjojo]

Thank you all again for your supportive confirmation that I am not a bad SIL. I want to make the decision that's right, not only for me and my children, but everyone else involved. And yes, some of the most valuable lessons in life are those hard learned and occasionally hurtful. I just guess this is one of them.

But as many of you have suggested, I kinda secretly hope the courts handle this for me so I don't have to look like the bad person I may turn out being, not that I really mind of course. It will just make the situtation easier with my sister if the courts...(digression) lock him away with others just like him and throw away the key into a burning vat of tar with no way to cool or find the key until he's too old to remember who he is any longer. Did I really say that??? With BIL staying behind, it really will be a better vacation in the end.

Now just hurry up and get here already!