What Happened to All the Authenticity

[jakeybake]

Hi,

We were in WDW back in August. We stayed at the Beach Club and because of the proximity to Epcot we ate there quite often.

My question is this. Where has all the authenticity gone at the World Showcase restaraunts?

We ate at the San Angel Inn and Alfredo's and even though the atmosphere in both places was authentic it ended right there.

The servers were the same type of servers you would encounter at any local Mexican or Italian restaraunt and the food and service was as well. I feel like in years past (I sound like my father here!) that everything about the restaraunts were authentic which lead to a feeling of actually being in another country.

I was very disappointed that other than the decor, the dining experience was what I would find here in Boston.

Anyone else feel the same way?

Jay

[JPL]

It's called the Disney Dining Plan. In order to accomadate the plan the restaurant menus have been scaled back significantly to keep the cost down.

[MMouse6937]

I thought Alfredo's was very "authentic" when we went there, but granted I've never been to Italy, but it's what I thought authentic would have been. Now I have never liked San Angel Inn, since we went there is 2000. Nothing "authentic" Mexican about it, never has been. Le Cellier is not "authentic" Canadian, but again, it's an idea of what you think Canadian restaurants should be, they are all very americanized now, even inside Canada. Beyond that I can't say, haven't eaten in any of the other sit down places. I guess authentic is somewhat relative to your experience. We so far have had good experiences and if we don't, we don't go back. Thanks goodness I don't need to go to San Angel Inn, I live in New Mexico, can't get more authentic than that!! :D

[mjaclyn]

I haven't eaten at Alfredo's but San Angel Inn has never seemed like authentic Mexican food to me. I LOVE the atmosphere inside but the food (IMO) is sub-par.

[SBETigg]

The food at World Showcase restaurants has always been a little more generic than you might find in the actual countries to please a wider range of tastes, I think. But you can still find authenticity in speaking with CMs at the various pavilions. We had nice chats with several on our August trip, from Tuscany, from France, from China. The CMs are usually very friendly and willing to speak of their homelands.

[Polynesian Dweller]

The authenticity has always been in the CMs and I agree that its quite enjoyable to engage a few about how they got there and what their countries are like. Great part of the dining experience.

The food, for the most part, has been Americanized by adjusting to American tastes. That only makes sense since the audience you are selling to is mostly American. It does give a flavour of what the food is like but not totally authentic.

[emmingo]

I've never found the restaurants in the various "nations" to be all that authentic, since they seem to appeal to a generic-y idea of the nation the restaurant is in. There are some restaurants that are really good (Le Cellier, the Udon restaurant in Japan, the Rose & Crown fish and chips) and one or two that feel authentic (the one in Morocco), but if you're looking for really GOOD restaurants, its probably (IMO) not the World Showcase. :D

That isn't to say that the food isn't good, though. When we go we sort of "eat through the world"...you know, picking up a little thing here (:marg: in Mexico, :beer: in Germany, little pastries in France), etc. Thats really the best way to do it that I've found!!! :razz:

[TheRustyScupper]

It's called the Disney Dining Plan. In order to accomadate the plan the restaurant menus have been scaled back significantly to keep the cost down.

1) Absolutely.
2) Unfortunately, this won't be reversed.
3) People don't care about authenticity and quality.
4) They just want to pig-out.
5) And, DDP let's them do that.
6) So, to make money within the reimbursement schedule
. . . restaurants dumb-down the menu items
. . . items become more standardized
. . . the number of menu items gets reduced
. . . increase the number of tables

NOTE: My friend is a chef at Epcot. They were part of a meeting that congratulated them on making changes in recipes to increase profits and were urged to do more - they wanted more under the 2008 DDP.

[diz_girl]

From TheRustyScupper:
3) People don't care about authenticity and quality.
4) They just want to pig-out.


I totally agree. Just think of the popularity of all of those Chinese Buffets and all of the food on cruise ships. Then people wonder about their ever-expanding waistlines.

With the exception of dinner at the Crystal Palace, the best meals that I had on my last trip were at the resorts, with my facorite being Narcoossee's. None of them were in the WS. One disclaimer, the next time I'm going to give the restaurants in Morocco a try since I've never eaten there.

[SignguyTom]

It's called the Disney Dining Plan. In order to accomadate the plan the restaurant menus have been scaled back significantly to keep the cost down.

Besides keeping costs down, they also have had to adjust the items to be more common to accomodate the huge demand created by the DDP. I think the menus were too unique for the average family - they expected things more familiar, not necessarily authentic.

A lot of the charm has been diminished, don't you think?

[jakeybake]

I totally agree, the charm and allure of the World Showcase restaraunts is gone.

When I ate at the San Angel Inn it felt like I was at the Border Cafe, here in Boston. The food and service that is, the atmosphere is top shelf.

And the food and service at Alfredo's was less authentic then I would get in Boston's North End.

[Hull-onian]

We have eaten at Five North Square, next to the Paul Revere house. Alfredo's couldn't come remotely close to the meal we had there. I will take Boston Dining any day of the week. We have sixteen weeks till our next trip. I am looking forward to all our dining experiences. We booked the Poly twice, Chef Mickey's twice, and we are starting our arrival date at the Hoop Dee Doo Revue. Can't wait.:beer:

[jillluvsdisney]

I don't think the WS restaurants are that authentic. They have to represent the country of origion while also appealing to guests from all parts of the world. I think they are watered down some. Aukeshaus used to be authentic and it wasn't terribly popular until it became a Princess meal. I've heard English tourists say you'd get arrested for selling what they serve in the Rose and Crown. I can German food any day of the week here in Wisconsin. Do not get me started on the German Pavillion.

On another note, because you mentioned it., I've had better Italian food in Chelsea than in the North End...for 1/2 the price also.

Good thread topic.

Merry Christmas:santa3::santa3:

[JPL]

The really sad thing when it comes to Italian and Chinese at WDW in general is that my local Pizzeria has far superior Italian food at a fraction of the cost and the dime a dozen Chinese Take out place has much better food and for what you pay for one meal at WDW you can eat for an entire week.

[JakeA2]

BUT if you look at food just about everywhere in this country it has gone down some. As a pro chef I can tell you we can make it nice and make it a wonderful experience - but people still ask for comfort foods. Ex. I did a wine dinner the other day with a set menu - Osterich, Buffalo and venison - these menus were posted a long time ago so people knew what I was doing and the wines to go with them - you know of the 50 people 8 poeple asked for chicken that they did not like the choices ---screwed the culinary team all up having to stop and do that...people are and have gotten very Comfort Food oriented especially since 9/11...

[dmosher]

Authentic or not... I LOVE eating at the WS! So much to choose from, etc. Sure I have been to most of the actual countries and eaten there and no it's not all particularly authentic, but trust me you may not like the AUTHENTIC food from some of these places (trust me).

That being said (please stop yelling at me now), I just love hopping from country to country having different foods (authentic or not) and a beer in each place (usually authentic) and just relaxing. If I want authentic enchiladas, I'll go to Mexico. Otherwise San Angel it is!
Cheers!
:pipes:
D

[DisneyOtaku]

I like the atmosphere at WS, though I know most of it is because I let myself believe in it. I think my favorite is Germany, because I *can't* get German food anywhere where I live, good OR bad. Just not enough of a German population down here, though we do have one small German settlement. And I haven't been anywhere else in the world, so I have nothing to compare the other resturants too.

[SignguyTom]

Authentic or not... I LOVE eating at the WS! So much to choose from, etc. Sure I have been to most of the actual countries and eaten there and no it's not all particularly authentic, but trust me you may not like the AUTHENTIC food from some of these places (trust me).

That being said (please stop yelling at me now), I just love hopping from country to country having different foods (authentic or not) and a beer in each place (usually authentic) and just relaxing. If I want authentic enchiladas, I'll go to Mexico. Otherwise San Angel it is!
Cheers!
:pipes:
D

Well said! Afterall, we all go to WDW for the fun and atmosphere, and not for a lesson on authentic ethnic cuisine, right? Being exactly what it is, I find the food at the WS restaurants MUCH better than the rubber hot dogs and cheeseburger jerky found at 'other' parks... :ack:

[lightyearfan]

well me and dw just got back from WDW and we ate at San Angel, and we thought that it was very authentic, from our waiter to our food, i mean the waiter or waitress has to speak some english, and when we've eaten at Italy pavillion, i'm able to speak fluent italian with the staff so to me it's very authentic, it has nothing to do with the DDP. we've been to WDW many times and only for the last 2 trips down have we eaten on the DDP, and it doesn't differ in any way. the DDP has and always wil get a bad rap.

P.S.
the menu is the same if your on the DDP or not, the only time that it's different is if your doing a dinner package show. and last but not least, when i'm in WDW with my dw nothing else matters anyway , including the food!!

Victor

[SignguyTom]

...the menu is the same if your on the DDP or not, the only time that it's different is if your doing a dinner package show. and last but not least, when i'm in WDW with my dw nothing else matters anyway , including the food!!

Victor

Yes, the choices are the same, but the menus overall have changed since the DDP began. They are less imaginative and have been trimmed to be "dumbed down" to appeal to a broader audience at the expense of some authenticity. This is the case for everyone, not just the DDP participants. I think that is the complaint by many...

I don't think the cast members are in question here.

[Horizon93]

We always eat several dinners at WS each trip. San Anjel is a regular for us. We have been doing this since 1993.

I agree that the DDP has changed things to an extent. But I still believe that the authenticity is there. Using San Anjel as an example, the atmosphere, staff, menu and service is not available at any local restaurants that I know of. Try Marrakesh, Chefs, Rose & Crown, (ah the bangers and mash) and tell me that the authenticity is gone. I also think that portion sized are thankfully smaller at most WDW restaurants do to an attempt to be more health conscious and possibly a little more bottom line conscious.

On our next trip we will be at San Anjel, Rose & Crown, and Chefs de France along with Narcoosee's (anniversary dinner) and Jiko (we will be at AKV)

[Marker]

From what I'm reading here, it's amazing anyone even bothers to go to Epcot, and their restaurants. Well, since it's apparently so incredibly awful, maybe the crowds will be smaller and the lines shorter when I go next time... I can't wait.

And yeah, that darned DDP. Of course without it, they wouldn't be concerned with reducing costs and increasing profits at all. And whee do they get off doing something like that to fill the seats of their restaurants. What kind of business want's customers. And why on earth would they have menu items that appeal to a greater percentage of customers and families.

Ok, I'll stop with the sarcasm.:sorry:

I suspect the menu changes are not soley because of the DDP. In fact if anything, I'd say it's the other way around. If the food they were serving before the DDP, and the system for ordering it, had been filling the seats, they wouldn't have had to make adjustments. Of course it's about profits, it's a business.

You know, a few years back we ate at Akershus, lots of herring, and red cabbage, and other things Scandanavian. I thought it was great, but my wife (who is Scandanavian-Danish to be exact) and 3 kids didn't care for it hardly at all. Thus, we haven't been back. So, what's better for business, staying authentic but only serving a certain segment of the crowd, or offering items that are more population friendly. Either way, I think the food is good, and I'm happy to be there nonetheless.

[Ian]

Guess I'm in the minority here, but I haven't had a bad meal in WS in years. I think the last time I did it was at San Angel Inn, so maybe it's just that spot that's sub-par.

On our last trip we ate in Chefs de France (twice), Le Cellier, and Teppan Edo and all four meals were out of this world.

Were they authentic? I don't know ... I haven't been to France in years, I don't really know what "authentic Canadian food" is, and I've never been to Japan.

What I do know is that our meals were fantastic across the board.

[jillluvsdisney]

Marker, your post is actually funny. Some of the sarcasm must be directed at me. I can take my lumps. I enjoy eating at many of the WS restaurants. I just know I am getting the "Disney" version of ethnic cuisine. I'm still happy to always be there.

[Marker]

Marker, your post is actually funny. Some of the sarcasm must be directed at me. I can take my lumps. I enjoy eating at many of the WS restaurants. I just know I am getting the "Disney" version of ethnic cuisine. I'm still happy to always be there.

Actually, I think I might have been agreeing with you. At least as far as the Akershus anecdote. My kids didn't care for it at all. My wife, of Danish heritage and grew up in a very Danish community in Iowa, didn't really care for their selections either.

Was it authentic? I don't know. But it was at least in the style. Although, as it was, the other members of my family had absolutely no desire to go there again.

You know, many truly authentic dishes, regardless of which country of origin, are an acquired taste and really don't stand a chance of appealing to the masses and are therefore not financially appropriate in a venue serving the number of people WDW does.

FYI, my wife does like the pastries at the Kringla Og Bakery, and found some to be and enjoyable, nostalgic experience.

[Janmac]

Marker, that's funny about about your Danish wife not liking Akershus. My Chinese stepmother (born in China, raised in Taiwan, immigrated to USA as an adult) does not care to eat at China but loves eating at Norway.

For myself, I love the seafood bastilla at Marrakesh and the mahi mahi de la veracruzana at San Angel. I liked the food at Germany before it switched to buffet service - no more seafood stew. And I really liked Akershus when it was all buffet but then I'm very partial to pickled fish.

When the number of visitors to WDW was high, perhaps there were enough pickled fish eaters, for example, to sustain the restaurant choices as we knew them. The attendance numbers really took a dive after 9/11, necessitating a more generally popular menu, appealing to more of the fewer guests, to keep the restaurants afloat. Not so much a dumbing down, necessarily.

Even if the menus are dumbed down, a lemon chicken at Marrakesh is enough different from mole poblano at San Angel, to make you feel as tho you've gone somewhere different.

Jan

[MinnieMommie]

Boston has very good restaurants. The North End is renowned for its Italian food and bakeries and I imagine it would be hard to compare to WS. I think the quality of the food has taken a hit since the inception of the dining plan but all in all still a fun place to eat with lots of options. :mickey:

[Jared]

It's called the Disney Dining Plan. In order to accomadate the plan the restaurant menus have been scaled back significantly to keep the cost down.


1) Absolutely.
2) Unfortunately, this won't be reversed.
3) People don't care about authenticity and quality.
4) They just want to pig-out.
5) And, DDP let's them do that.
6) So, to make money within the reimbursement schedule
. . . restaurants dumb-down the menu items
. . . items become more standardized
. . . the number of menu items gets reduced
. . . increase the number of tables
I completely agree with both posts. Jeff and I had a detailed conversations about the Disney Dining Plan over lunch at Columbia Harbour House in October. We were disappointed the clam chowder is now served on a plastic bowl instead of the bread bowl, and we knew exactly why.

My family has never had a good experience at a World Showcase restaurant, but we haven't tried too many. Lackluster meals at Nine Dragons and Teppanyaki Dining Rooms scared us away. Like Jeff said in another post in this thread, I can find better Chinese, Japanese and Italian for a fraction of the cost on my street corner.


Well said! Afterall, we all go to WDW for the fun and atmosphere, and not for a lesson on authentic ethnic cuisine, right? Being exactly what it is, I find the food at the WS restaurants MUCH better than the rubber hot dogs and cheeseburger jerky found at 'other' parks... :ack:
Sorry, but I completely disagree with your sentiments, Tom. Walt Disney World is designed as the complete vacation experience, including delicious food. Many restaurants absolutely meet my expectations.

When Epcot opened, part of the park's allure was the cuisine. Every World Showcase pavilion has at least one eatery because guests are supposed to sample ethnic food from around the globe. Unfortunately, the table service options aren't matching my, and many other people's, standards.

[SurferStitch]

Guess I'm in the minority here, but I haven't had a bad meal in WS in years. I think the last time I did it was at San Angel Inn, so maybe it's just that spot that's sub-par.

On our last trip we ate in Chefs de France (twice), Le Cellier, and Teppan Edo and all four meals were out of this world.

Were they authentic? I don't know ... I haven't been to France in years, I don't really know what "authentic Canadian food" is, and I've never been to Japan.

What I do know is that our meals were fantastic across the board.

I'll totally ditto what Ian said, except for France. We were pretty disappointed in that meal. DH's filet was literally like rubber....he couldn't cut it, and it was mostly fat. My shrimp/scallops were so/so....had much better at Red Lobster just a few days ago. Soups were delicious, though. Desserts were just pulled from the fridge, so they were a letdown.

We've also never cared for San Angel Inn. Food is definitely sub-par.

Other than that, we had stellar meals at Le Cellier, Teppan Edo, and 2 lunches at Nine Dragons (definitely much better than your corner Chinese joint...no comparison).

My cousin was in Italy a couple years ago on business, and ate many meals there. Not long after that, he had a meal at Alfredo's, and was amazed at how close Alfredo's was to dining in Italy. He said he felt like he was back in Italy, and said it was very authentic.

[pokci]

We had lunch in Akershus earlier this month. No kids so I was not looking forward to the princesses and actually was going back to Norway for the food. Our server was Sylie who welled up when I told her that I found it very disappointing that Disney chose to make all of the meals princess meals and to offer less Norwegian food. She was so pleased that someone came for the food and not for the "mac and cheese", as she put it. I go to the WS eateries searching for native servers who can tell me about their traditions, their experience being abroad and to teach me words like please and thank you and hello in their own language. I do not wish to see non-natives working in the various countries. Nothing against any of the people who work in any of the places, but in Mexico I epxect to talk to Mexicans, in Japan to Japanese, in France the French and so on. Luckily at Akershus and later in the week at Kringla we were able to enjoy "authentic" Norwegian selections.

Maybe it's just me, but I really miss the "old" Disneyworld. And really the old "EPCOT".

[JPL]

I suspect the menu changes are not soley because of the DDP. In fact if anything, I'd say it's the other way around. If the food they were serving before the DDP, and the system for ordering it, had been filling the seats, they wouldn't have had to make adjustments. Of course it's about profits, it's a business.



I talked to a former Food Services manager at WDW regarding the changes and he basically came out and said in order to make a profit on the DDP menus were simplified and quality and portion sizes suffered greatly. Remember before the DDP you paid an average of $60 a person at a place like LeCellier and now they needed to make a profit from about $24 a person and at the time it included the gratuitity on the full price of the meal. The main reason Alfredo's is no longer at WDW is they couldn't make a profit and keep up to their standards when the DDP was introduced.

[SignguyTom]

Sorry, but I completely disagree with your sentiments, Tom. Walt Disney World is designed as the complete vacation experience, including delicious food. Many restaurants absolutely meet my expectations.

When Epcot opened, part of the park's allure was the cuisine. Every World Showcase pavilion has at least one eatery because guests are supposed to sample ethnic food from around the globe. Unfortunately, the table service options aren't matching my, and many other people's, standards.

I understand that the food is not what it once was, or was originally intended to be at park opening. It's still better than every other theme park I have ever visited - authentic or not. They are having to appeal to a much broader group with the DDP. While certainly not everybody, a lot of people will order something familiar over adventurous, at least that's been my experience. It's a bummer for some, maybe not for others. I know what the intention for the WS retaurants originally was, but the fact is that WDW is in the USA and therefore it does not surprise me that the food is becoming more Americanized. I do know that if San Angel Inn served "authentic" Mexican food, I would probably never eat there again. I live 2 hours from Mexico and, in my opinion, the food there is not so good. I certainly would not want to pay $25+ per person for it. Ever.

What I think would be cool is if they had some smaller locations with true samples of authentic cuisine. You know, a couple bucks gets you a "real" taco, or frog leg, or escargot, or monkey brain, etc.... Have a similar location at each country's pavilion. You could get a taste of the real thing, but not have to worry that you will not like your dinner because it was not what you expected. I would like to try some these things, but I would never order them for my dinner.

I think what bothers me more is that most of the items available for sale in the gift shop at the American Adventure pavilion are made in China or Taiwan. What's up with that??