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Scar
12-13-2007, 10:41 AM
The Mitchell Report will be released today at 2:00PM.

Roger Clemens is the first big name leaked to be on the list (ESPN.com).

Hammer
12-13-2007, 12:00 PM
Scar, I plan to post the whole list once it is released and will merge this thread into it.

In regards to Clemens, I am not that surprised. I'm trying to be prepared for any name to show up on the list, though there are some I really hope I am wrong.

Hammer
12-13-2007, 12:48 PM
Second name to be leaked: Andy Petitte. A quote from an article I read: "It's going to be a rough day in the Bronx" once the report is released (ESPN.com).

kdsjjb
12-13-2007, 01:00 PM
The list has been leaked. Look for:

Brady Anderson
Rafael Palmero
Manny Alexander
Albert Pujols
Jeff Bagwell
Lenny Dyksta
Johnny Damon
Eric Gagne
Nomar Garciapara

There are 76 names total. Some surprises, some painfully obvious.

It'll be interesting to see what happens next.

JPL
12-13-2007, 01:13 PM
I'm sure they are going to look at the dates of the infractions. This was something MLB was well aware of and ignored for years so it will really be interesting to see their take on it and if they levy and punishments.

Hammer
12-13-2007, 01:15 PM
As I stated earlier, I will post the complete list when it is officially released. I ask that if people are going to name any names prior to 2 o'clock, please site your source. I'm editing my posts now to provide that information.

Hammer
12-13-2007, 01:27 PM
I'm sure they are going to look at the dates of the infractions. This was something MLB was well aware of and ignored for years so it will really be interesting to see their take on it and if they levy and punishments.

Well, for players such as Jay Gibbons, they have levied punishment, but the punishment is based on the rules at the time of the infraction. Gibbons, to his credit, didn't make excuses for why he used the cycle of steriods he used. He said he used it as a way to speed up healing from an injury. Dykstra (if is on the official list), as he is retired and there wasn't a policy in the late 1980's-early 1990's, will probably not be punished at all.

It will be interesting to see if some of these guys were habitual users (Sosa, McGwire) or used a few months cycle of steriods to rehab an injury. It still wrong regardless the reason, but I think you may see more who used the steriods as a way to quickly heal from injury, as recommended by the training staff, rather than to hit more home runs.

kdsjjb
12-13-2007, 01:32 PM
I could easily tell you that my source IS the Mitchell Report.

As I'm sure you know, all MLB teams and the players union were given an advanced copy of the list.

It has been published (probably in the same "report you read") that this advanced copy would be distributed at 1PM (the exact time of my post by the way) but the list was distributed well before that.

goofhook
12-13-2007, 01:42 PM
I also read that Jason Varitek is on the list... I'd only imagine he won't be a captain soon. EDIT: Turns out he was not on the list.

Scar
12-13-2007, 01:44 PM
I could easily tell you that my source IS the Mitchell Report.

As I'm sure you know, all MLB teams and the players union were given an advanced copy of the list.

It has been published (probably in the same "report you read") that this advanced copy would be distributed at 1PM (the exact time of my post by the way) but the list was distributed well before that.So where did you see it?

goofhook
12-13-2007, 01:45 PM
I just found this link off the Boston Red Sox fan forum. Lots of interesting names on there.

Hammer
12-13-2007, 01:50 PM
I could easily tell you that my source IS the Mitchell Report.

As I'm sure you know, all MLB teams and the players union were given an advanced copy of the list.

It has been published (probably in the same "report you read") that this advanced copy would be distributed at 1PM (the exact time of my post by the way) but the list was distributed well before that.

All I am asking that if you are getting the info from ESPN.com or WFAN (for example) you list it in the post. There have already been a few phony lists which have been pulled off internet sites. The official list will be released to the PUBLIC at 2 pm and at that point there will not be a need to site sources.

Scar
12-13-2007, 01:59 PM
... or used a few months cycle of steriods to rehab an injury. It still wrong regardless the reason, but I think you may see more who used the steriods as a way to quickly heal from injury, as recommended by the training staff, rather than to hit more home runs.You know, I think I would be in favor of using it to rehab an injury. As long as it is disclosed, prescribed and administered by a real doctor (and not one associated with the team), and only for a certain length of time.

I had a bad lung infection a few years ago and was prescribed steroids. I'm no expert by I assume it help me.

kdsjjb
12-13-2007, 01:59 PM
Well now, Scar, I will be treading on thin ice here, so please forgive me if I seem a little vague.

I am employed by one of these "organizations" and although I was not on the distribution list for the original release of the report, as I'm sure you know, these things will quickly spread around the "office."

Soon after, they start making it to the outside world. When I got an email BACK FROM the outside world dislosing the information that we were given, I figured that since I wasn't the first, I felt OK posting the few names that I did.
That certainly does not mean that I feel comfortable enough to post the entire list, or the "organization" that I work for.

If you, or Hammer, would like the entire list, I might feel alright about a PM to either of you.

Scar
12-13-2007, 02:09 PM
If you, or Hammer, would like the entire list, I might feel alright about a PM to either of you.Thank you.

I'm not that desperate though, I can wait a few more minutes. ;)

RedheadWriter
12-13-2007, 02:29 PM
Eric Gagne, whose name appears in one the first posts in this thread, did he play for the Twins and is he from Southeastern Massachusetts? If so he is one of the local boy heroes in this area.
Just wanted some clarification on that.
Thanks

Scar
12-13-2007, 02:42 PM
Eric Gagne, whose name appears in one the first posts in this thread, did he play for the Twins and is he from Southeastern Massachusetts? If so he is one of the local boy heroes in this area.
Just wanted some clarification on that.
ThanksNo. That was Greg Gagne.

A few names so far:

Paul LoDuca
Miguel Tejada
Mo Vaughn

Source: The Mitchell Report

Hammer
12-13-2007, 02:42 PM
Well, they aren't making it easy for me to give a complete list. Sorry, I have a job and can't spend the afternoon reading the full report. Now my local sports radio station is reading through it and is giving names as they get to them. So far:

Barry Bonds
Sammy Sosa
Roger Clemens
Andy Pettite
David Bell
Lenny Dykstra
Todd Pratt
David Justice
Eric Gagne
Gary Sheffield
Jason Grimsley
Ryan Franklin
Miguel Tejada

Scar
12-13-2007, 03:01 PM
I have a job and can't spend the afternoon reading the full report. People that obviously don't work are updating the list on wikipedia continuously.

kakn7294
12-13-2007, 03:39 PM
The report is 409 pages long - I'm off work today and I don't have the time to sit and read 409 pages! Personally, I think it's just another attempt at a witch hunt. I'm sure some of these guys did use steriods but without solid proof from MLB, this report really means nothing to me. If you go to ESPN.com, there is a link to the whole document as well as to a survey that you can take to let them know what you think of the report.

Hammer
12-13-2007, 05:05 PM
Players listed in the Mitchell Commission report
ESPN.com

Updated: December 13, 2007, 4:09 PM ET
According to the Mitchell Commission report, here are players mentioned and how they are linked to performance enhancing substances:

Information Learned During this Investigation Concerning BALCO and Major League Baseball (8 players/ 3 active in MLB in 2007)
From the report: "I requested interviews of all the major league players who had been publicly implicated in the BALCO case."

Marvin Benard
Barry Bonds
Bobby Estalella
Jason Giambi
Jeremy Giambi
Benito Santiago
Gary Sheffield
Randy Velarde

Information Regarding Purchases or Use of Performance Enhancing Substances by Players in Major League Baseball (53 players/ 18 active in MLB in 2007)
From the report: "The following discussion is organized in roughly chronological order. Records do not exist to document every transaction described by witnesses. [Kirk] Radomski stated that, with one exception noted below, the payments he received from professional baseball players were for performance enhancing substances, as opposed to personal training or other services, and this assertion was confirmed by those players who agreed to speak with us about their dealings with him."
Lenny Dykstra
David Segui
Larry Bigbie
Brian Roberts
Jack Cust
Tim Laker
Josias Manzanillo
Todd Hundley
Mark Carreon
Hal Morris
Matt Franco
Rondell White
Roger Clemens
Andy Pettitte
Chuck Knoblauch
Jason Grimsley
Gregg Zaun
David Justice
F.P. Santangelo
Glenallen Hill
Mo Vaughn
Denny Neagle
Ron Villone
Ryan Franklin
Chris Donnels
Todd Williams
Phil Hiatt
Kevin Young
Mike Lansing
Cody McKay
Kent Mercker
Adam Piatt
Miguel Tejada
Jason Christiansen
Mike Stanton
Stephen Randolph
Jerry Hairston, Jr.
Paul Lo Duca
Adam Riggs
Bart Miadich
Fernando Vina
Kevin Brown
Eric Gagné
Mike Bell
Matt Herges
Gary Bennett, Jr.
Jim Parque
Brendan Donnelly
Chad Allen
Jeff Williams
Howie Clark
Exavier "Nook" Logan

Alleged Internet Purchases of Performance Enhancing Substances By Players in Major League Baseball (16 players, 8 active in MLB in 2007)
From the report: "Since the initial news reports of the raid by New York and Florida law enforcement officials on Signature Pharmacy and several rejuvenation centers, the names of several current and former major league players have appeared in the media as alleged purchasers of performance enhancing substances through these operations. These include:"

Rick Ankiel
Paul Byrd
Jay Gibbons
Troy Glaus
Jose Guillen
Jerry Hairston Jr.
Gary Matthews, Jr.
Scott Schoeneweis
David Bell
Jose Canseco
Jason Grimsley
Darren Holmes
John Rocker
Ismael Valdez
Matt Williams
Steve Woodard

Jasper
12-13-2007, 05:32 PM
While I haven't always agreed with Mitchell's politics he has always seemed to be as honest as any national politician can be and in this case there is no reason why he should be anything but impartial. Plus he has always been known to be VERY thorough even when he was new to national politics and was playing the role of Democrat pit bull like most new politicians do for their respective party. I think it was also very telling that in his statement he was very emphatic about saying that basically EVERYONE in baseball was responsible in some way or other for allowing it to happen. That doesn't sound like a witch hunt to me.

By the way, I hope that everyone remembers now that Clemens and Bonds have both been identified by the report that they start giving Clemens the same kind of hard time that they have given Bonds. There really is no difference between the two of them now. Both have cheated their way to the top!

DisneyGiant
12-13-2007, 05:42 PM
Comments from a Yankee beat writer (Pete Abraham) on his blog:



Senator Mitchell is lucky that Kirk Radomski was facing prison and was willing to rats guys out to get some time taken off his sentence. Otherwise the Mitchell Report would have been the size of a comic book.
Roger Clemens takes the biggest hit today. Turns out that that his vaunted work ethic came out of syringe. He’ll deny, I suspect.
Then what? If he wasn’t retired before, this clinches it. In five years voters will have to decide whether he belongs in the Hall of Fame.
I don’t know how much that report costs but I hope Bud Selig kept the receipt. He should get some money back.




Other things I've read - this is a very New York centric report - their main source lived in the Bronx.

At this point - my pipedream is that I would love for all of them to get amnesty - then I want true confessions - and a promise not to take the drugs anymore unless its for injury reasons!!!

kakn7294
12-13-2007, 05:44 PM
While I haven't always agreed with Mitchell's politics he has always seemed to be as honest as any national politician can be and in this case there is no reason why he should be anything but impartial. Plus he has always been known to be VERY thorough even when he was new to national politics and was playing the role of Democrat pit bull like most new politicians do for their respective party. I think it was also very telling that in his statement he was very emphatic about saying that basically EVERYONE in baseball was responsible in some way or other for allowing it to happen. That doesn't sound like a witch hunt to me.The only reason that I say it's a witch hunt is that they are now naming names without giving us any proof - or at least any hard evidence that I've seen. Without evidence of a positive drug test, I don't see what this report proves. It's the same as a jury trial - there should be hard and fast evidence of guilt in order to convict. Provide a positive drug test and I'll believe it. That said, I'm not doubting that at least some, if not all of these guys are guilty.

As far as Mitchell himself, I don't really know anything about him but as far as there being no reason why he wouldn't be impartial, he did sit on the board of directors for the Boston Red Sox. That right there could influence him - although I'm not saying it did because like I said, I really don't know anything about him.

Donald A
12-13-2007, 05:56 PM
As far as Mitchell himself, I don't really know anything about him but as far as there being no reason why he wouldn't be impartial, he did sit on the board of directors for the Boston Red Sox. That right there could influence him - although I'm not saying it did because like I said, I really don't know anything about him.

I do not know much about Mitchell either. I find it funnny that hours before the 7th and final game of the ALCS, Cleveland's Paul Bryd's name is "leaked." Doesn't this Mitchell work with the Red Sox? A little bit strange to me :confused: Winning at all costs is once again an issue even if it means using information that should not have been released to try to help "your" team advance to the World Series. Same thing as cheating in my book. I can not prove anything but if Mitchell used information to try and help the Red Sox win it makes him no better than anyone on his "list."

Jasper
12-13-2007, 06:16 PM
I just heard something on the national news that absolutely shocked me even more than the list of names! Effective immediately the league office is suspending giving teams and players 24 hour notice of "random surprise" drug screens! I spent almost 15 years in the Human Resource profession and the FIRST thing you are taught about random drug screens is that you take the person DIRECTLY to the collection site and do not let them out of your sight, do not let them eat or drink anything, and do not let them go to the restroom because there are so many opportunities to do things that at the very least makes the results suspect. Giving them 24 hours notice just TOTALLY destroys any validity of the test and the procedure. According to this reporter the 24 hour notice practice has taken place since MLB began doing drug tests. That means there is basically no credibility in their process! I am simply aghast!

Scar
12-13-2007, 07:45 PM
The only reason that I say it's a witch hunt is that they are now naming names without giving us any proof - or at least any hard evidence that I've seen. Without evidence of a positive drug test, I don't see what this report proves. It's the same as a jury trial - there should be hard and fast evidence of guilt in order to convict. I would say having copies of checks signed by players for thousands of dollars to a guy who has been convicted of, and admitted to, dealing steroids is pretty good evidence.

No, this is not the same as a jury trial. The purpose of this report is to admit to the fans (the ones who pay the money) that there was steroid usage, and to help make sure baseball players stop using them. No player will be going to jail because they were named in this report. The only reason Barry Bonds may go to jail is because he lied to a grand jury, not because he used steroids.

Scar
12-13-2007, 07:59 PM
I do not know much about Mitchell either. I find it funnny that hours before the 7th and final game of the ALCS, Cleveland's Paul Bryd's name is "leaked." Doesn't this Mitchell work with the Red Sox? A little bit strange to me :confused: Winning at all costs is once again an issue even if it means using information that should not have been released to try to help "your" team advance to the World Series. Same thing as cheating in my book. I can not prove anything but if Mitchell used information to try and help the Red Sox win it makes him no better than anyone on his "list."Obviously I don’t know for sure, but I would bet that Mitchell did not leak Byrd. Byrd’s name was linked with the Signature Pharmacy raid, along with Ankiel, Matthews, and Schoeneweis (all names I heard around the same time.) It was probably leaked by someone involved in the raid.

kakn7294
12-13-2007, 10:35 PM
I would say having copies of checks signed by players for thousands of dollars to a guy who has been convicted of, and admitted to, dealing steroids is pretty good evidence.

No, this is not the same as a jury trial. The purpose of this report is to admit to the fans (the ones who pay the money) that there was steroid usage, and to help make sure baseball players stop using them. No player will be going to jail because they were named in this report. The only reason Barry Bonds may go to jail is because he lied to a grand jury, not because he used steroids.Yeah, having signed checks is pretty good evidence. I didn't take the time to read the entire report and if this is mentioned in there, I missed it. It's not often you're going to buy steriods for someone else.

I do realize that they weren't going to jail because of this report. As far as letting the fans know about the steriod use, is it really going to affect the average fan's image of MLB? We all already knew there was steriod usage. For me, this report changes nothing. Maybe I'm just naive.

DisneyGiant
12-14-2007, 09:01 AM
Doesn't really change anything for me either

A recap from my favorite sportswriter at LoHud blogs (Pete Abraham):



George Mitchell made it a point today to say that none of the players mentioned in his report should be punished by MLB. Pretty telling.


Bud Selig - who incredibly said he hadn’t read the whole report - said he would take each player on a case-by-case basis and act swiftly.


If the commissioner tries to suspend anybody, he’s going to create quite a mess. Because the feds had the goods on Kirk Radomski and Brian McNamee, they ratted out some players to Mitchell. Radomski lives in New York and worked for the Mets. So many of the players he dealt to were connected to the New York teams.


The dealers in Los Angeles, Boston, Miami and other places ducked the investigation. I’m no former Senator, but I suspect Radomski and McNamee had competitors. You know what many players will want for Christmas? Their canceled checks back.


If Selig starts suspending assorted Yankees, Orioles and Blue Jays based on the report of a Red Sox team director, he’s going to upset competitive balance and raise more questions about the validity of this report.


Beyond that, suspending players based on hearsay evidence is tricky business. Threaten somebody with time in the big house and they’ll toss their mom under the bus. There are no positive tests here, no photographs, no audio.


You want to punish teams based on what the towel boy said? The MLBPA would sprint to court on that. In real life, these charges are flimsy at best.


Public scorn is enough. Suspensions need to be based on hard evidence, not the squeals of a rat.



He also noted players who were missing from the report - Sammy Sosa, Mark McGwire - hello? ;)

sportsguy2315
12-14-2007, 09:48 AM
During the late 90's (following Kirby Puckett's retirement), Roger Clemens and Sammy Sosa were my guys that I followed. I for one was surprised Roger was on the list, although it does give an explanation to the bat incident; but I'm happy Sammy wasn't on the list. However, outside of the BALCO list, which was the only investigation an active player (Jason Giambi) participated in, I'm not reading too much into this, but I do hope MLB wakes up and realizes they need to do more in terms of steroid prevention.

PirateLover
12-14-2007, 10:05 AM
I don't see this as a witch hunt. It is a well documented list that took millions of dollars and lots of time to complete
I don't think Mitchell has any ulterior motive. So what if he was on the board of the Red Sox? I also heard he is/was on the Disney board and Disney owns ESPN etc etc... The point is, the guy is a politician. They spend their whole lives trying to get important positions and make connections.
I DO care strongly about this. I am disgusted that Barry Bonds was a cheater and broke so many records and I want to see him be exposed. Also what kind of a message does it send our young athletes if pro players don't get punished for using? Steroids, when not needed for medicinal purposes as Scar talked about, are a nasty, sometimes life-threatening habit. I applaud this report and hope that something good comes of it.

Mackflava99
12-14-2007, 10:20 AM
Mark and Sammy were not on the list, but that was only because they didn't interview their dealer- There are plenty more players involved-
( brady anderson ? Rich Aurilla? etc) that it was pretty obvious they were involved in this-
We all know Mark and Sammy did it, It is so obvious that its a joke.
Its sad that the records that were broken, and milestones set were held by these drug enduced super-humans, and the real stars like Hank Aaron and roger maris lose their records

Ok so the Most impotant Question:
DID JOSE CANSECO SAVE BASEBALL BY DOING THIS ?


I really think he did. 20 years from now, we will look back at him as a man of courage....which is funny because he is a jerk.

JPL
12-14-2007, 03:34 PM
I will say that after reading the list it should only be taken as a small cross section of the era. I'm sure if he talked to other teams trainers and staff a more balanced list would have come out. There are lots of obvious players missing from the list since they or the teams did not get questioned for the report. A report from an investigation with no subpoena power is pretty much useless in my eyes. Now if they talked to trainers and staff from every team under oath then it would hold more validity. This is MLB answer to a problem they ignored because it was bringing in revenue. Now Selig can punish a few big name stars and say see we do care. The report really is a bunch of garbage it really isn't shedding new light on the situation and there is really no way to validate it's claims. The owners, player, managers, trainers, MLB, and MLBPA all knew about steroid use and chose to ignore it for the good of their bank accounts then all of a sudden you have BALCO and baseball cares.

goofhook
12-15-2007, 05:53 PM
Well, Andy Petitte admitted to using HGH.

DisneyGiant
12-16-2007, 01:33 AM
Well, Andy Petitte admitted to using HGH.

I have a new respect for him.

Hammer
01-24-2008, 04:38 PM
Subpoena for Knoblauch Still Not Served

By HOWARD FENDRICH, AP
Thu Jan 24, 6:35 AM EST

Former major leaguer Chuck Knoblauch had not been tracked down as of early Wednesday evening by federal marshals trying to serve him a subpoena from a House panel investigating steroids in baseball, a committee staffer told The Associated Press.

The person spoke on condition of anonymity because staffers were not authorized to make public comments on the matter.

Knoblauch, a four-time All-Star who played for the Yankees, Twins and Royals from 1991-02, originally was asked to appear Thursday for what was supposed to be the first of five depositions or transcribed interviews scheduled by the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee.

Those sessions are in preparation for a hearing Feb. 13, when the witnesses are scheduled to include seven-time Cy Young Award winner Roger Clemens and his former personal trainer, Brian McNamee.

When the committee didn't hear from Knoblauch or a representative, it issued a subpoena to force the 1991 AL Rookie of the Year to submit to a deposition next Tuesday.

As of 7 p.m. Wednesday, though, that subpoena had not reached the former infielder who, like Clemens and more than 80 other players, was accused of using performance-enhancing drugs in last month's Mitchell Report on baseball's steroids era.

Clemens was asked to speak to committee staff Saturday, and his workout partner and former teammate with the Yankees, Andy Pettitte, was invited to be interviewed Jan. 30. McNamee is due to speak to the committee Jan. 31, with former New York Mets clubhouse employee Kirk Radomski to appear Feb. 1.

Lawyers for Clemens and McNamee have said their clients will appear, although one of McNamee's lawyers, Earl Ward, said his client would like to change the date of his meeting.

"We're still waiting to hear back from them on an alternate date," Ward said Wednesday.

Ward said he is awaiting final word on McNamee's request for immunity but also said that McNamee would appear without it.

In the Mitchell Report, McNamee said he injected Clemens with steroids and human growth hormone, accusations the pitcher with the eighth-most wins in major league history has denied repeatedly. Pettitte acknowledged McNamee injected him twice with HGH while the pitcher was recovering from an injury.

McNamee also told Mitchell he acquired HGH from Radomski for Knoblauch in 2001 and injected Knoblauch with HGH.

Radomski pleaded guilty to distributing steroids and laundering money. His sentencing is Feb. 8.