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Hammer
11-12-2007, 02:05 PM
As all teams can talk to any free agent as of midnight tonight, I think it is time to start a general baseball “hot stove” thread (and I want to get my mind off my bad football picks this season ;) ).

This thread is not limited to a discussion of any one team; all 30 teams are up for discussion. As always, a little trash talking is fine, but bashing of fans and their opinions will not be tolerated.

I’ll start with what my team, the Phillies, have done so far. I have to say I am pleased. Yes, Lidge has risks, but really what trade doesn’t hold some element of risk? After Schilling decided to stay with the Red Sox, the quality of free agent pitchers decreased drastically. It really was smarter to put Myers back in the rotation as his stuff was better than anyone else out on the free agent market and the price for Santana is going to be too high. They are going to want someone like Cole Hamels for him (a good player many years from free agency) and that would be a bad move for the Phils in my opinion.

Very happy we resigned J.C. Romero. The Phillies bullpen had problems, but he was not one of them. Rowand wants way too many years. I’ll be curious if any team gives him the 6 years, $85 million (which would have made him higher paid than Chase Utley).

goofhook
11-12-2007, 02:35 PM
Well, the Red Sox and Lowell negotiations don't seem to be going good. It is either he still wants a 4 year deal, or he does not want to stay in Boston, and if he leaves that opens the door for Cabrera, who would be another great young player in the Red Sox organization. Speaking of young players, Dustin Pedroia was named AL Rookie of the year.:number1:

goofhook
11-12-2007, 02:49 PM
Also the Red Sox are looking at another Japanese pitcher, I just can't find his name right now. Also, I read a rumor of Coco Crisp being traded for Hank Blalock, but I think it is unlikely. I say this knowing that the Red Sox are capable of getting more talent for Coco.

goofhook
11-12-2007, 03:08 PM
Sorry for posting so much so quick, I promise I'll stop for atleast an hour, but I just found out Mike Lowell and Mike Timlin filed for free agency today. Even the Red Sox offical site is missing Lowell and Timlin from the roster. And the Sox could afford A-Rod, but I don't want to see him in a Boston uniform unless Cabrera is off the block.

Scar
11-12-2007, 03:16 PM
Pitching, pitching, and more pitching.

Starting pitching. Long relief. Middle innings. Setup. I’ll even take another closer if one better than Wagner is available.

The Mets haven’t really done anything yet except pick up Alou’s option.

I’ll take A-Rod as long as we don’t have to give him his own personal hair salon in the new stadium.

If the Mets could sign Santana to an extension, I’d trade Reyes and a prospect for him and sign A-Rod for SS.

Oh, and did I mention we need pitching.

goofhook
11-12-2007, 03:21 PM
In the report about that Japanese pitcher ( whose name I still can't find ) the Mets are also active in the talks with that pitcher. A few things I could remember off the top of my head is that he is 33, has a longer and more confusing name than Dice-K, and wants a deal in the same area as Dice-K's, but without the 50 million negotiations part. Also I think It will be a shootout for A-Rod between the Mets and Socks, knowing the Marlins are a little more interested in what the Yanks have than the Socks for Cabrera.

medic9016
11-12-2007, 03:28 PM
You have Andruw Jones out there. Just how much $$$$ will it take for him to be signed?

I think I read somewhere that the pitching market consist of older pitchers. I have not really keep up with them though. I think Tom Glavine is on the list. Does he have anything left for a long season?

Scar
11-12-2007, 03:38 PM
I think Tom Glavine is on the list. Does he have anything left for a long season?I think so, but not as a 1 or 2. Maybe a 3 or 4. I have a feeling he's retiring. He’s pretty much said he would only pitch for the Mets or Braves, and I don’t think either will offer anywhere close to the $13M option he declined.

goofhook
11-12-2007, 03:46 PM
Tom Glavine has enough for another season, but probably only for a six man rotation. I also saw Roger Clemens is a free agent, I'd say its time for these guys to retire. I think Roger took a job with the Astros to be a talent evaluator or something like that.

Scar
11-12-2007, 03:59 PM
Rowand wants way too many years. I’ll be curious if any team gives him the 6 years, $85 million (which would have made him higher paid than Chase Utley).Probably.

I wouldn’t compare his contract with Utley’s. Utley was what, in his 2nd or 3rd full year when he signed his extension? I think he got the best contract ever signed by a player that green. Way better than David Wright’s. Rowand’s in like his 7th or 8th year.

goofhook
11-12-2007, 04:05 PM
I think the yankees would offer him a six year deal, Abreau should be on his way out he is out of his prime, and that would be a pretty good outfield for the Yankees having Matsui, Melky, and Rowand. But then again, Abreau could keep that job if the Yankees make a deal for Santana involving Melky, then they could fill that hole with Rowand.

Scar
11-12-2007, 04:11 PM
Abreau should be on his way out ...The Yankees picked up Abreu's option for '08.

goofhook
11-12-2007, 05:07 PM
That is interesting that they picked it up, knowing with out A-Rod, the Yankees could use a power hitter, unless if they go for Cabrera. But I think they want Lowell. ( who will most likely get a deal like Damon ) I wonder if they have trade talks going on that we don't know about involving a power hitter, Travis Hafner or someone like that?

Hammer
11-12-2007, 08:36 PM
Pitching, pitching, and more pitching.

Starting pitching. Long relief. Middle innings. Setup. I’ll even take another closer if one better than Wagner is available.


As many issues as the Phillies have had with closers, I'm still glad we didn't resign Wagner. He is starting to break down, and once again he is airing complaints through the press. He is bad news in a clubhouse.



I’ll take A-Rod as long as we don’t have to give him his own personal hair salon in the new stadium.

:laughing: :funny:



If the Mets could sign Santana to an extension, I’d trade Reyes and a prospect for him and sign A-Rod for SS.

Oh, and did I mention we need pitching.

Interesting idea. As a fan of another team in the NL East, I hope it never happens ;), but it's an interesting thought.


Probably.

I wouldn’t compare his contract with Utley’s. Utley was what, in his 2nd or 3rd full year when he signed his extension? I think he got the best contract ever signed by a player that green. Way better than David Wright’s. Rowand’s in like his 7th or 8th year.

Even more reason not to give him such a long contract. The Phillies were burned by the long contracts they gave to Abreu and Burrell. We will finally be done paying off Thome (I think) at the end of 2008. The Phillies have reason to be leary on how many productive years they will get out of his contract.

JPL
11-13-2007, 03:54 PM
The Yankees made their first smart move of the Off-season they signed Posada :thumbsup:

Scar
11-13-2007, 04:24 PM
FYI,

I found a cool website that gives the details of every MLB contract.

Google "Cot's baseball contracts".

It appears to be very current, they even have Posada's new contract updated.

medic9016
11-13-2007, 04:50 PM
Cool web site. thanks.:cool:

goofhook
11-13-2007, 05:59 PM
That is an interesting site, for one, I did not think the Red Sox had that large of a payroll going into 2007. I'm also suprised to see most of our key players making such low amounts of money, I thought for sure Paps made atleast a couple million a year.

JPL
11-13-2007, 08:19 PM
In other interesting news from the Yankees they offered Mariano Rivera a 3 yr $45M deal :thumbsup:

goofhook
11-14-2007, 05:27 PM
I found something very interesting on ESPN.com, and it just happens to deal with A-Rod. It says that the Yankees and A-Rod are negotiating about a deal to bring him back to New York. I thought the Yankees said if he opts out they will not pursue him. I have a feeling this is going to be a fun outseason, maybe more drama than the messed up Knicks?

JPL
11-14-2007, 05:39 PM
From what I read A-Rod is the one that set up the meeting there are even rumours of him getting ready to dump Boras.

goofhook
11-15-2007, 06:09 PM
Well, it seems as if the Yankees are the only team doing anything. I just found out today, that they are just about finished working out a deal with A-Rod ( still no Boras ) and that they are talking about putting Lowell at first. But I don't see why they would do that, knowing they have a very young, promising first baseman. Shelly Duncan is his name right?

goofhook
11-15-2007, 07:03 PM
According to ESPN, A-Rod agrred to the outline of his new Yankee contract, so the money is still being decided on. Its amazing what you could do without Boras!

DisneyGiant
11-16-2007, 01:00 AM
Well, it seems as if the Yankees are the only team doing anything. I just found out today, that they are just about finished working out a deal with A-Rod ( still no Boras ) and that they are talking about putting Lowell at first. But I don't see why they would do that, knowing they have a very young, promising first baseman. Shelly Duncan is his name right?

NY local papers don't think Shelly is that promising - and I don't think he's that young (by baseball standards - he's spent a lot of years in the minors - not that there's anything wrong with that!)

I can't believe the Mike Lowell rumor though - can't see him switching for 4 years to first base. Supposedly, that's where Posada will end up after his catching days are over.

goofhook
11-16-2007, 06:34 AM
I always thought Duncan was a young farm prostpect, but I guess not. And Lowell playing first I don't think its happening either. I say that knowing he will want a 4 year deal, and as you said with Posada, I think Lowell might run back to the Red Sox.

goofhook
11-16-2007, 06:44 AM
Rumors are ture, Mike Lowell was offered a 4yr/60 million dollar deal to play first base for the Yankees.

Scar
11-16-2007, 08:52 AM
...there are even rumours of him getting ready to dump Boras.
( still no Boras )
Its amazing what you could do without Boras!Apparently this is not true. Hank Steinbrenner was quoted in the Star–Ledger as saying he has “no problem” with Boras being involved in the negotiations.

Scar
11-16-2007, 08:54 AM
In other interesting news from the Yankees they offered Mariano Rivera a 3 yr $45M deal :thumbsup:Rivera reportedly turned down the offer. He wants a fourth year.

JPL
11-16-2007, 03:00 PM
Apparently this is not true. Hank Steinbrenner was quoted in the Star–Ledger as saying he has “no problem” with Boras being involved in the negotiations.

He has to say that because of the Collective Bargaining agreement a team can not exclude an agent from negotiations. So A-Rod would ahve to fire Boras first then the Yankees can make their true feelings known.

DisneyGiant
11-18-2007, 05:07 PM
Rivera reportedly turned down the offer. He wants a fourth year.

According to the NY Post - he's accepting the three year deal!!!

goofhook
11-19-2007, 03:20 PM
Angels traded for Jon Garland, giving up SS Orlando Cabrera. AND...... Lowell is a Red Sox member again!!!

Hammer
11-19-2007, 04:01 PM
Mel, this post is for you...;)

Braves, Glavine agree on one-year deal
11/19/2007 12:49 PM ET
By Mark Bowman / MLB.com

ATLANTA -- In a perfect world, Tom Glavine and the Braves never would have parted ways. Fortunately, fate and a strong mutual desire have reunited them and given the celebrated southpaw the opportunity to conclude his storied career where it began.
Years, months and days of anticipation were replaced with definite satisfaction late Sunday evening, when Glavine agreed to the terms of a one-year, $8 million deal offered by the Braves. Glavine's agent, Gregg Clifton, confirmed the terms of the deal, which the Braves announced on Monday.

"He's very excited, most importantly because he's going to be able to be close to his family again and be a full-time dad while continuing his playing career," Clifton said.

In early October, when Glavine declined the $13 million option the Mets owed him, all indications were he'd return to the Braves, who drafted him in the second round of the 1984 First-Year Player Draft and employed him at the Major League level from 1987-2002. During that span, he notched 242 of his 303 career victories and was awarded with his two National League Cy Young Awards (1991 and 1998).

Once Clifton saw the Braves' initial offer -- a one-year deal worth $6.5 million -- he knew things would progress quickly. Knowing he might receive more money elsewhere, Glavine entered these negotiations with the intention of signing with the Braves as long as he deemed their offer to be fair.

The Nationals and Phillies were among the other teams believed to be interested in Glavine, who made it known he wouldn't seriously listen to any other offers until he exhausted every opportunity to sign with the Braves.

"I think the Braves were happy to know Tom was willing to provide them a bit of a discount, and I think they paid a little more than they had planned," Clifton said. "But I think it's a fair deal for both sides."

Braves general manager Frank Wren can take great satisfaction in the fact he was able to get the man he targeted to fill his team's need for a reliable and durable starter. Glavine, who will turn 42 in March, has won at least 13 games and completed at least 198 innings each of the past three seasons.

With John Smoltz and Tim Hudson already serving as the anchors of the rotation, the Braves simply were looking for a pitcher who would provide regular quality innings. With Glavine, they got a pitcher whose 23 quality starts ranked fifth in the National League last year, a leader, whose clubhouse value is immeasurable, and a mentor, who can have a definite impact on young starting pitchers like Chuck James and Jo-Jo Reyes.

"We think adding Tommy would clearly make our rotation a lot better," Wren said earlier this month.

Critics argue the 4.45 ERA Glavine posted this past season and the fact he allowed 17 earned runs and worked just 10 1/3 innings in his final three starts are indications his skills are quickly eroding. But in the 10 starts he made preceding that forgettable finish, he was 5-0 with a 2.66 ERA.


Glavine's greatest contribution to the Braves might come from the fact he's completed at least 200 innings in 14 of the past 16 seasons that haven't been shortened by a players' strike.

As long as he can provide something similar this season, he will relieve some of the stress Smoltz and Hudson felt this past season and at the same time likely have a positive effect on a bullpen that might not have to eat as many innings as it did this past year while backing an Atlanta rotation that was filled with inexperience.

Clifton has stressed Glavine's desire to return to the Braves primarily centered around the opportunity to spend much more time with his wife, Christine, and their four children. While he pitched for the Mets during the past five seasons, he'd say goodbye to the family at the start of Spring Training with the knowledge they wouldn't be reunited in New York until the school year in suburban Atlanta ended in late May.

Many have told stories about how Glavine felt he made a mistake within a day of opting to reject the Braves and sign with the Mets after the 2002 season. Last winter, he was hoping to make a return that would've allowed him the chance to join the 300-win club with his original organization.

When the Braves didn't even provide an offer, a discouraged Glavine had reason to believe he may never pitch for Atlanta again. But now there's no longer reason to wonder. His dream has become a reality, and now the task is to make sure this homecoming is a memorable one.

Melanie
11-19-2007, 06:32 PM
Mel, this post is for you...;)

This post makes me cry - happy tears of course! I'm so glad Tom can finish out his career at home. :thumbsup:

goofhook
11-21-2007, 06:10 PM
With A-Rod off the market and Lowell resigned by the Red Sox, how long do you guys think it will take for the Angels to get Cabrera? I think it will be a week or two until the trade happens.

EPCOT84
11-22-2007, 04:18 PM
With A-Rod off the market and Lowell resigned by the Red Sox, how long do you guys think it will take for the Angels to get Cabrera? I think it will be a week or two until the trade happens.

Which Cabrera? ;) The Angels just traded Orlando Cabrera to Chicago for Jon Garland for who knows why :confused::mad:.

As for 'the other Cabrera', we shall see...

Hey, they also just got Torii Hunter.

goofhook
11-22-2007, 04:41 PM
Oops, forgot to mention that it is Miguel Cabrera, but I don't know why they traded Orlando either. Maybe so they don't have 2 Cabreras playing next to one another?

EPCOT84
11-22-2007, 04:46 PM
Yeh, can't have that, can we?

goofhook
11-22-2007, 04:50 PM
They could trade for Miguel Cabrera, kept Orlando Cabrera, and then traded for pitcher Daniel Cabrera for the pitching help.:cool:

goofhook
11-22-2007, 04:54 PM
They could also trade for Melky Cabrera, and then trade for another pitching Cabrera, Fernado Cabrera.:stop:

EPCOT84
11-22-2007, 05:19 PM
You're killing me !:funny:

Get Alex Cabrera from Seibu LIons Japan ! He's movin'!


TOKYO, Nov. 22 (AP) - (Kyodo)—Seibu Lions slugger Alex Cabrera is likely to leave the Pacific League club after negotiations between them on a new deal hit a snag, baseball sources said Thursday.

goofhook
11-22-2007, 06:57 PM
What position does he play? If he is a pitcher, than the Angels might want him too. I also figured out why the Angels made that trade, they are looking to set up a package to trade for Miguel Cabrera.

EPCOT84
11-22-2007, 07:25 PM
Yeah, read that too.

As for the guy in Japan, don't know much about him but I just couldn't resist after seeing that story :blush:. Looks like he's a first baseman but is trading within Japan and used to be with Arizona in 2000. No wonder the name sounded familiar.

goofhook
11-24-2007, 05:00 PM
Well, according to ESPN Santana wants a 6-year/$150 million dollar deal. I think the twins are going to trade him for sure now, knowing he wants that kind of money.

goofhook
11-25-2007, 05:37 PM
It looks like the Reds are very close to signing closer Francisco Cordero, and A-Rod's contract could total up to $305 million dollars, with home run bonuses which are $6 million for: Willie Mays (660), Babe Ruth (714), Hank Aaron (755) and Barry Bonds (762), and an additional $6 million for breaking Bonds' major league record.

Scar
11-29-2007, 09:15 AM
The Mets just lost Tom McCarthy back to the Phillies.


Looks like the Mets are out of the Santana talks. He wants a 7 year deal and the Mets will only give a pitcher 5 years max. Can't say I blame them. Kevin Brown, Mike Hampton, Barry Zito (although I guess the jury's still out on him), 'nuff said.

Hammer
11-29-2007, 12:10 PM
The Mets just lost Tom McCarthy back to the Phillies.


Looks like the Mets are out of the Santana talks. He wants a 7 year deal and the Mets will only give a pitcher 5 years max. Can't say I blame them. Kevin Brown, Mike Hampton, Barry Zito (although I guess the jury's still out on him), 'nuff said.

I am really glad the Tom McCarthy is coming back. I don't have any concrete info, but I wouldn't be surprised if Harry Kalas starts to not work a full season schedule (I think Harry is 72) and Tom does those games.

I think that a lot of teams are hesitant to giving really long contracts as so many teams have been burned by them. Only a couple of teams have the money to absorb the added salary if the deal looks bad in year 4 of a 7 year contract.

Ian
11-29-2007, 01:21 PM
I am really glad the Tom McCarthy is coming back. I don't have any concrete info, but I wouldn't be surprised if Harry Kalas starts to not work a full season schedule (I think Harry is 72) and Tom does those games.

I think that a lot of teams are hesitant to giving really long contracts as so many teams have been burned by them. Only a couple of teams have the money to absorb the added salary if the deal looks bad in year 4 of a 7 year contract.On Kalas, I hope not. Harry's the best. I'll miss him if he heads into retirement. We're so lucky to have had so many great broadcasters in Philly ... Merrill, Harry, Gene ... the best!

As far as long term deals, I'll be honest ... in any league with guaranteed contracts I have NO CLUE why any team would give any player a long term deal. I'd make everyone go year-to-year, so I didn't get burned by slackers.

Jared
12-02-2007, 12:12 PM
I'm not too sure the New York Yankees or Boston Red Sox are as close to acquiring Johan Santana as the Minnesota Twins want everybody to believe. Boston is steadfastly holding onto pitcher Clay Buchholz and outfielder Jacoby Ellsbury, while New York is still hesitant about including pitcher Phil Hughes into a deal, despite recent reports the organization has changed its mind.

Minnesota does not have to move Santana before the season. He's still the best pitcher in the league and under contract until the end of the year. Unlike with position players, his value will not decrease in July. Barring an injury, it will only increase because every contender will be in the market for a starter, especially one of Santana's caliber. The Twins are hyping the rumors, hoping either New York or Boston blinks and trades a youngster it covets.

We're seeing the beauty of the rivalry once again during these last few weeks. Neither club particularly wants to make the deal, but neither can let Santana wind up with the other. Boston was the best team in baseball last year. Imagine a starting rotation with Josh Beckett, Santana, Curt Schilling and Daisuke Matsuzaka. Even if New York trades Hughes, it could still possibly enter 2008 with a staff of Santana, Chien-Ming Wang, Andy Pettitte, Chamberlain and Mike Mussina or Ian Kennedy.

At 12:01 p.m. on Sunday afternoon, I think the Yankees are more likely to land Santana than Boston. The Red Sox have less to gain from making a blockbuster deal and appear determined not to trade either of their top two prospects. The Yankees have always been reckless, despite General Manager Brian Cashman's wishes. Right now, the organization is divided, and Cashman is fighting to maintain the triumvirate of Hughes, Chamberlain and Kennedy to open the new ballpark in 2009.

It'll be an interesting couple weeks. Let's see what happens at the meetings.

goofhook
12-04-2007, 06:24 PM
ESPN told me that Miguel Cabrera and Dontrel Willis are going to the Tigers. Tigers are giving up a lot of prospects, but I'd say it is worth it. Also, if the Red Sox keep Jacoby Ellsbury, I could imagine the Tigers and Sox playing for the AL Pennant.

Jared
12-04-2007, 10:30 PM
Today's trade might have some sweeping effects on the rest of the offseason. Most importantly, the Detroit Tigers are now an absolute force in the American League, strong enough to compete with the Boston Red Sox.

Dontrelle Willis joins a rotation already with Jeremy Bonderman, Justin Verlander and Kenny Rogers. Assuming Boston does not acquire Minnesota's Johan Santana, Detroit might have the best starting staff in the league.

And Willis is the secondary player of the deal. Miguel Cabrera is truly an MVP-caliber player who was stuck in Florida for his entire young career. Critics question his work ethic, citing his growing belly and increasing laziness, but his offensive numbers haven't declined whatsoever. He's a poor third baseman, but Detroit will take his run production and overlook shoddy defense. Carlos Guillen is a strong enough shortstop to handle the left side of the infield, and now Cabrera will get the recognition he deserves. Maybe a ticket out of Miami is what he needs to stay in shape.

The Florida Marlins took the best package available, receiving better players than the Los Angeles Angels were offering. Cameron Maybin is arguably the best outfield prospect in baseball and Andrew Miller could soon be a 15-game winner in the National League. The Marlins will be a disaster next year, but that organization will be rebuilding until it builds a new stadium or relocates.

With Los Angeles out of the Cabrera sweepstakes, expect the Angels to jump into the Santana sweepstakes in full force. The New York Yankees say they are out of the race, but no one really believes them, especially after they resigned Alex Rodriguez after he opted out of his original contract. The same players the Angels offered the Marlins for Cabrera could be included in a package for Santana. I think the other American League clubs realize if Santana winds up with the Red Sox, it's doomsday for everybody else. If Anaheim trades for Santana, it joins Boston and Detroit at the top of baseball.

Scar
12-13-2007, 10:44 AM
Rowand wants way too many years. I’ll be curious if any team gives him the 6 years, $85 million (which would have made him higher paid than Chase Utley).Well the Giants just gave him 5 years, $60M.

Hammer
12-13-2007, 12:02 PM
Well the Giants just gave him 5 years, $60M.

Just because the Giants gave him the years (which was what Rowand cared more about) doesn't make it a smart move. The Zito contract they gave isn't looking real smart right now...

goofhook
12-13-2007, 01:49 PM
Well, with Miguel Tejada going to the Astros, would that make the Orioles rebuild a lot more and get Bedard on another team, or use the money now that Tejada is gone to sign him to an extention? If they could do this they would be competitive down the road in the AL Beast.

Melanie
12-17-2007, 05:56 PM
Oh happy day! First Glavine and now Javy. Hope he has something left.

Javy Lopez back with Braves

Monday, Dec 17, 2007 5:06 pm EST


Popular catcher Javy Lopez is back with the Atlanta Braves where he enjoyed his greatest success the Atlanta Journal-Constitution reported.

The Braves inked Lopez to a minor league free-agent contract with an invitation to spring training, where the 37-year-old will attempt a comeback and try to win a backup job behind Brian McCann.

Lopez hasn't played since being released by Colorado during 2007 spring training, but the Braves think the three-time former All-Star might have enough left to give them a power bat off the bench. He hit .251 with just eight homers and 35 RBIs in 94 games for Baltimore and Boston in 2006, then signed a $750,000 contract with the Rockies and got cut from the team in March.

Source: Atlanta Journal-Constitution

Scar
01-29-2008, 06:20 PM
{singing}

Oye como va
Mi ritmo
Bueno pa gosar
Mulata

Yes, let the singing and partying begin.

The Mets appear to be mere hours away from signing Santana. :party:

Hammer
01-29-2008, 06:57 PM
Yeah, I had a bad day at work, and this was just the topper upon which to end it :crying:...

As Santana wouldn't even consider the Phillies to wave his no-trade clause (his list was quite short, only NY or LA teams need apply) I never had any dreams of getting him. We could have offered them Carrasco, Autmann (I think that is the AA pitcher's name) and Savery, but if Santana wasn't willing to even consider here, it is a moot point.

You still have to play the game, and he can't pitch every day. I would not want to be Brian Cashman today, though.

Carol
01-30-2008, 07:29 AM
:)

Ian
01-30-2008, 08:45 AM
As Santana wouldn't even consider the Phillies to wave his no-trade clause (his list was quite short, only NY or LA teams need apply) I never had any dreams of getting him. We could have offered them Carrasco, Autmann (I think that is the AA pitcher's name) and Savery, but if Santana wasn't willing to even consider here, it is a moot point.In fairness, Christine ... even if Santana had been falling all over himself to join the Phillies, they wouldn't have had any interest in signing him. There's no way he'd fit into their "budget."

Also, the Phils have no one to blame but themselves for having problems attraction good pitchers ... they're the ones who built that teeny-weeny, hitters ballpark.

Hammer
01-30-2008, 09:43 AM
Trust Ian to be the WIP voice in this thread :shake:. The ballpark is small, but the dimensions are the same as the VET. The mistake that was made is they did not take into account the effects of an open stadium with those dimensions. They are fine if you are playing inside a bowl.

Oh and regarding your budget comment. This guy became too rich even for the Yankees! There are only 2 or 3 teams who operate with basically an unlimited budget and even they have limits (see my Yankees comment). You, and a lot of other people in Philadelphia, will always look for the negative when it comes to the Phillies (and people are starting to do now with the Eagles) but are quick to heap love on them when things are going our way and last September is a prime example.

sportsguy2315
01-30-2008, 10:48 AM
Being a Twins fan, I have mixed feelings on the deal. I knew about as well as anyone that the Twins wouldn't give Johan the contract extension, and the fact that he isn't going to an AL contender comforts me some. However, while the Twins do have a history of getting good prospects out of trades (see Boof Bonser, Joe Nathan, Santana, and Francisco Liriano), I felt the Twins could have gotten more out of a deal with the Yankees or Red Sox.

Ian
01-30-2008, 11:17 AM
Trust Ian to be the WIP voice in this thread :shake:. The ballpark is small, but the dimensions are the same as the VET. The mistake that was made is they did not take into account the effects of an open stadium with those dimensions. They are fine if you are playing inside a bowl.

Oh and regarding your budget comment. This guy became too rich even for the Yankees! There are only 2 or 3 teams who operate with basically an unlimited budget and even they have limits (see my Yankees comment). You, and a lot of other people in Philadelphia, will always look for the negative when it comes to the Phillies (and people are starting to do now with the Eagles) but are quick to heap love on them when things are going our way and last September is a prime example.The dimensions of the field may be the same as the Vet (don't know if that's true or not, but I'll take your word for it), but the configuration of the field isn't. The walls are lower so it's easier for balls to leave the park and I also could swear someone told me that the left field fence is like 10 feet closer than it was at the Vet.

In regards to criticizing/heaping love on teams ... I see no problem with that. If the Phillies are on a run, I think it's only natural for people to support them.

But I've never understood why people think that supporting a team means you can't also criticize them? If you're truly passionate about your team you want them to do everything they can to win and I don't think that the Phillies do enough.

Look at this off season! What have they done to get better? Virtually nothing. And this nickel and diming of Ryan Howard ... come on. The dude is the best player on your team. PAY THE MAN!

Hammer
01-30-2008, 12:10 PM
Ian, I do criticize the team, but that does not mean I should turn my back on them because I don't agree with them. They made a mistake with ballpark, but there really isn't anything that can really be done without tearing down sections of the ballpark. Either people learn to live with it or just don't go. Why do people need to rehash the same stuff over and over? Move on.

Regarding Howard, we have no idea what he is asking. I do not want to give him a contract longer than Utley's (who is younger). Or do you want another Thome contract where the Phillies are making payments to another team for the last 3 years, which I can guarantee is what will happen with Howard? They will make a decent offer (they did for Lowell, but all he did was use the Phillies). Howard should get a Pujols contract not an A-rod contract as Howard is not a complete hitter/player. A passionate fan shouldn't be unrealistic, either. Almost every teams' ownership is a limited partnership which require a consensus. There are only a couple of teams which have a single owner. Stop making it seems like the Phillies are the only team with a budget. The only teams which seem to operate without a budget are in NY. There wasn't any worth paying for on the starting pitcher free agent market, so they did the next best thing by getting another closer and putting Myers back in the rotation. He was better than any of the free agent pitchers (or do you want another Adam Eaton wannabe?).

This is not the day to pick I fight with me, Ian. My job is giving me enough grief! :mad:

Scar
01-30-2008, 03:22 PM
Or do you want another Thome contract where the Phillies are making payments to another team for the last 3 years, which I can guarantee is what will happen with Howard?Forgive me if I'm misinterpreting what you are saying but... are you guaranteeing (or at least heavily assuming) that Howard would be traded after 3 years if he signs a long term deal? :confused:

Hammer
01-30-2008, 04:09 PM
Forgive me if I'm misinterpreting what you are saying but... are you guaranteeing (or at least heavily assuming) that Howard would be traded after 3 years if he signs a long term deal? :confused:

No, I'm just throwing out the scenario. Remember, Howard is 28 years old. I'm just saying he may not be effective for the length of the contract. Power hitters tend to breakdown quicker. If the contract is too back loaded, the Phillies may have trouble moving him (case in point, we can't move Pat Burrell). Hey, I hope he is plays like he does for the Phillies until 2018 (when he would be 38) but I just want to point out to Ian it isn't anywhere near a lock that Ryan will be productive for the length of the contract. People will complain about Ryan and his contract like they do now about Pat Burrell.

Ian
01-30-2008, 04:27 PM
Howard should get a Pujols contract not an A-rod contract as Howard is not a complete hitter/player.No argument from me on this point. We agree 100%. If Howard wants an A-Rod contract (which is the rumor) then he's nuts. He's worth Pujols money, but not A-Rod money. BUT the Phils aren't offering him either ... Pujols makes a lot more than $7 million per.


A passionate fan shouldn't be unrealistic, either. Almost every teams' ownership is a limited partnership which require a consensus ... Stop making it seems like the Phillies are the only team with a budget.But Christine, I don't CARE about other teams! I only care about the Phils.

Apologists always find things to point to to excuse a team's lack of effort. "Oh, but this team doesn't spend money either ... Oh, but there wasn't anyone worth spending money on ... Oh, but we didn't like this guy or that guy ... "Oh, but we don't want to part with our draft picks/prospects."

They do it for the Phils ... the Eagles ... but the bottom line is it seems like the same teams year after year find ways to get done what needs to get done and, oddly enough, they're the teams that win all the championships. The Mets sure didn't have any problem finding a top-notch starting pitcher, now did they??

Last off season I didn't hear the Patriots making excuses for not getting top talent. They won three Super Bowls in four years and they still went out and signed the top free agent at every position. They found a way to get it done, which is all I'm asking my teams to do.

Look, in sports the only thing that matters is winning championships. If you're not it in to do that, you're in the wrong business. I don't care if the Phillies or the Eagles are fiscally responsible ... I care if they win championships and they don't. And until they do, you better bet I'll rip them.

For heaven's sake, look at the teams that have managed to win championships from these small market towns ... Tampa, St. Louis, Anaheim, Baltimore ... if they can do it you really expect me to believe that teams from like the 5th biggest market in the nation can't spend a few extra bucks to lure the big-time players???

Baloney ... Jeff Lurie and the Phillies ownership ... they don't care nearly as much about winning as they do about their own profits and to me, if you're in it for profit, go by a fast food franchise and leave the sports teams to the people who really care about giving the fans the best team they can give.

Hammer
01-30-2008, 05:19 PM
No argument from me on this point. We agree 100%. If Howard wants an A-Rod contract (which is the rumor) then he's nuts. He's worth Pujols money, but not A-Rod money. BUT the Phils aren't offering him either ... Pujols makes a lot more than $7 million per.

But Christine, I don't CARE about other teams! I only care about the Phils.

Apologists always find things to point to to excuse a team's lack of effort. "Oh, but this team doesn't spend money either ... Oh, but there wasn't anyone worth spending money on ... Oh, but we didn't like this guy or that guy ... "Oh, but we don't want to part with our draft picks/prospects."

They do it for the Phils ... the Eagles ... but the bottom line is it seems like the same teams year after year find ways to get done what needs to get done and, oddly enough, they're the teams that win all the championships. The Mets sure didn't have any problem finding a top-notch starting pitcher, now did they??

Last off season I didn't hear the Patriots making excuses for not getting top talent. They won three Super Bowls in four years and they still went out and signed the top free agent at every position. They found a way to get it done, which is all I'm asking my teams to do.

Look, in sports the only thing that matters is winning championships. If you're not it in to do that, you're in the wrong business. I don't care if the Phillies or the Eagles are fiscally responsible ... I care if they win championships and they don't. And until they do, you better bet I'll rip them.

For heaven's sake, look at the teams that have managed to win championships from these small market towns ... Tampa, St. Louis, Anaheim, Baltimore ... if they can do it you really expect me to believe that teams from like the 5th biggest market in the nation can't spend a few extra bucks to lure the big-time players???

Baloney ... Jeff Lurie and the Phillies ownership ... they don't care nearly as much about winning as they do about their own profits and to me, if you're in it for profit, go by a fast food franchise and leave the sports teams to the people who really care about giving the fans the best team they can give.

1) Pujols made 7 million for the exact same amount of service as Howard has. Now, the Phillies need to escalate from that point for every successive year to at least match Pujols' contract. Jody Mac had a good break down of it the other day on his show.

2) As someone who follows the Bucs, I can tell you many Bucs fans are very upset with their ownership. Even though they won the Super Bowl, people still resent this ownership. Their seat license prices are worse than Philadelphia. I know I will never forgive them for how they treated Tony Dungy, Super Bowl win or not. And most of the teams you mentioned haven't sniffed real success since their Super Bowl win. I think the Baltimore ownership ending up having to sell. I tell you almost ever sports franchise is in it for the money/revenues and could care less about the fans' happiness, regardless of the city in which they are located. It's a lovely ideal, but it very rarely happens.

PirateLover
01-30-2008, 06:05 PM
Trust Ian to be the WIP voice in this thread :shake:. The ballpark is small, but the dimensions are the same as the VET. The mistake that was made is they did not take into account the effects of an open stadium with those dimensions. They are fine if you are playing inside a bowl.

Technically they aren't.... in some dimensions CBP is actually a few feet bigger but that is because of the whole fiasco in which they were forced to push the walls back 2 years ago. I mean, they mislabeled one dimension by 25ft!!! Yikes!
However in regards to center field distance and fence height, CBP is smaller. Not astronomically smaller, but smaller nonetheless. Add the wind factor and yes, you have a hitter's park that pitchers are now afraid of and I don't blame them. There really isn't anything the Phil's can do about it at this point though, so I'm not gonna cry about it.

In regards to the whole championship vs being competitive thing... honestly I'd rather one of these teams just go all out one year to win it. I don't care if everybody leaves the next year, and if the team is in the gutter for awhile after that, as long as they win ONE. Honestly I would've gladly traded all of those Eagles NFC Championships just to have one Super Bowl win. I think the difference with those other towns is that they don't have a culture of losing. Christine, correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the only major Philly sports team you are a fan of is the Phillies. They are heartbreaking enough but when you compound those heart breaks with equal moments from 3 other teams... I understand why so many people become negative and have such a longing just to win ONCE. That being said I am generally still an optimist. But it's really hard some times....

Ian
01-30-2008, 06:09 PM
1) Pujols made 7 million for the exact same amount of service as Howard has. Now, the Phillies need to escalate from that point for every successive year to at least match Pujols' contract.Yeah, but Christine ... Pujols has been in the league for seven years. You don't think baseball salaries should be going up right along with MLB revenues and profits? You can't expect a guy to sign a contract that only pays him what some comparable guy made 5 years ago!

I've heard Howard compared to Babe Ruth. You wouldn't say it was fair for him to sign a deal making what Ruth played for, would you??!

Hammer
01-31-2008, 08:14 AM
Technically they aren't.... in some dimensions CBP is actually a few feet bigger but that is because of the whole fiasco in which they were forced to push the walls back 2 years ago. I mean, they mislabeled one dimension by 25ft!!! Yikes!
However in regards to center field distance and fence height, CBP is smaller. Not astronomically smaller, but smaller nonetheless. Add the wind factor and yes, you have a hitter's park that pitchers are now afraid of and I don't blame them. There really isn't anything the Phil's can do about it at this point though, so I'm not gonna cry about it.

In regards to the whole championship vs being competitive thing... honestly I'd rather one of these teams just go all out one year to win it. I don't care if everybody leaves the next year, and if the team is in the gutter for awhile after that, as long as they win ONE. Honestly I would've gladly traded all of those Eagles NFC Championships just to have one Super Bowl win. I think the difference with those other towns is that they don't have a culture of losing. Christine, correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the only major Philly sports team you are a fan of is the Phillies. They are heartbreaking enough but when you compound those heart breaks with equal moments from 3 other teams... I understand why so many people become negative and have such a longing just to win ONCE. That being said I am generally still an optimist. But it's really hard some times....

I was thinking more about the power alleys being the same dimensions, but actually should have been farther back to account for aerodynamics. My mistake for not being too clear.

Maryanne, I am also a Sixers fan and I do like the Eagles, but the Bucs are my first team. No love for hockey. I always joke that the section of my brain were hockey would have gone is where I put all the girly things :laughing:! I actually used to have a Sixers weekend game plan until my right before my sister moved to North Jersey as too many of the games are Friday nights and Cheryl can't make those games. That's why the Phillies Sunday plan works so well for us. That said, I do understand the frustration, but the way so many fans act really hurts the image of this town. People like to discredit this, but as someone who hears how people perceive Philly fans outside of this area, it does not help in bringing free agents. It is just another reason teams here have to overpay.


Yeah, but Christine ... Pujols has been in the league for seven years. You don't think baseball salaries should be going up right along with MLB revenues and profits? You can't expect a guy to sign a contract that only pays him what some comparable guy made 5 years ago!

I've heard Howard compared to Babe Ruth. You wouldn't say it was fair for him to sign a deal making what Ruth played for, would you??!
Don't have time now, but I'll try to look up when Pujols was in his 3rd year in the league and he made the $7 million. That is why I said at least 7 million. That was too low, but Howard's 10 million is too high. I think 8-8.5 million is a reasonable number.

Ian
01-31-2008, 09:31 AM
People like to discredit this, but as someone who hears how people perceive Philly fans outside of this area, it does not help in bringing free agents. It is just another reason teams here have to overpay.I don't really believe this to be true, but even if it was that would mean to me that that's a player we don't want anyway.

Any professional athlete who's going to run away from a town that expects him to give his all is not someone I want playing on any of my teams.

But anyway, I don't buy that in the first place. I can't think of one time when any team has "overpaid" for a big-name free agent (in fact, the Eagles seem to steal them for less than what the market would dictate) and I definitely can't think of any time I've heard a player say, "I'm not going to play in Philly because the fans there are mean."

Honestly ... any fan who doesn't want their team to go all out and do whatever it takes to win isn't a real fan. To me that's that whole Midwest, "We're just happy to have a team in the first place and if they're competitive it's a bonus" mentality.

People forget ... for decades this was a city that produced champions. We had a champ in every decade from the 80's back to the 50's (that I'm aware of ... maybe farther). This culture of mediocrity has only emerged in the last 25 years.

And it's time it ends. If these owners won't do it, then yeah ... I'm gonna rip 'em until they leave town.

Scar
01-31-2008, 10:15 AM
Albert Pujols 1b
7 years/$100M (2004-10), plus $16M 2011 club option

signed 7-year extension 2/04, avoided arbitration ($10.5M-$7M)
04:$7M, 05:$11M, 06:$14M, 07:$15M, 08:$16M, 09:$16M, 10:$16M, 11:$16M club option ($5M buyout)
complete NTC 2004-2006 & limited NTC during remainder of the deal

$12M ($3M/year 07-10) deferred at 0% interest (to be paid in 10 installments of $1.2M from 2020 to 2029)
bonuses:
$50,000 each for Gold Glove & All Star selection
$0.2M for winning MVP award
$0.1M for 2nd-place finish in MVP vote

1 year/$0.9M (2003) signed 3/03 (record for third-year player)
1 year/$0.6M (2002) 3/02
1 year/$0.2M (2001)
contract purchased 3/01

drafted 1999 (13-402)
signing bonus of almost $60,000 (turned down initial $10,000 offer & played '99 season in Jayhawk League)
agents: Dan Lozano & Jeff Borris, Beverly Hills Sports Council
ML service: 7.000

(Source: Cot's Baseball Contracts)


Year Ag Tm Lg G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA
+--------------+---+----+----+----+---+--+---+----+---+--+---+---+-----
2001 21 STL NL 161 590 112 194 47 4 37 130 1 3 69 93 .329
2002 22 STL NL 157 590 118 185 40 2 34 127 2 4 72 69 .314
2003 23 STL NL 157 591 137 212 51 1 43 124 5 1 79 65 .359
2004 24 STL NL 154 592 133 196 51 2 46 123 5 5 84 52 .331
2005 25 STL NL 161 591 129 195 38 2 41 117 16 2 97 65 .330
2006 26 STL NL 143 535 119 177 33 1 49 137 7 2 92 50 .331
2007 27 STL NL 158 565 99 185 38 1 32 103 2 6 99 58 .327
--+----+---+--+---+---+-----+-----+-----+----+----+---+---+---+---+---+
7 Seasons 1091 4054 847 1344 298 13 282 861 38 23 592 452 .332

(Source: baseball-reference.com)

Scar
01-31-2008, 10:19 AM
Ryan Howard 1b
1 year/$0.9M (2007)

renewed 3/07 (record for player with less than 2 years of service)

1 year/$0.355M (2006), renewed 3/06

drafted 2001 (5-140), $0.23M signing bonus
agent: Casey Close (Howard fired Larry Reynolds 12/06)

ML service: 2.145


Year Ag Tm Lg G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA
+--------------+---+----+----+----+---+--+---+----+---+--+---+---+-----
2004 24 PHI NL 19 39 5 11 5 0 2 5 0 0 2 13 .282
2005 25 PHI NL 88 312 52 90 17 2 22 63 0 1 33 100 .288
2006 26 PHI NL 159 581 104 182 25 1 58 149 0 0 108 181 .313
2007 27 PHI NL 144 529 94 142 26 0 47 136 1 0 107 199 .268
+------------+---+----+----+----+---+--+---+----+---+--+---+---+-----+-
4 Seasons 410 1461 255 425 73 3 129 353 1 1 250 493 .291

(Same sources)

Ian
01-31-2008, 11:36 AM
Why Moss didn't land in Green Bay

There was a lot of talk last spring that Randy Moss, then on Oakland's roster, might wind up in Green Bay. Moss thought that might happen, too, but said Wednesday he soured on the idea of playing for the Packers in his discussions with personnel executives there. Green Bay was in the picture, but things were told to me about maneuvering money around and making it a good fit," he said. "The Packers were really talking about the wrong things, and not the right things. When they started talking about the wrong things, I just hung up the phone and didn't want to talk to them anymore."Now see, Christine ... this is the kind of thing I can see chasing big name players away from the Eagles.

I can fully envision a scenario where a free agent said the same thing about the Eagles.

"They kept talking about how well they manage the salary cap and not about winning Super Bowls ... I didn't get it ... "

PirateLover
01-31-2008, 12:43 PM
People forget ... for decades this was a city that produced champions. We had a champ in every decade from the 80's back to the 50's (that I'm aware of ... maybe farther). This culture of mediocrity has only emerged in the last 25 years.

And it's time it ends. If these owners won't do it, then yeah ... I'm gonna rip 'em until they leave town.
How can I forget...since I wasn't even BORN for any of them!!!!!!!!!! ;) sigh...
Oh and Christine I was a pretty big Sixers fan too but lately....oh my.... talk about dullsville...

Hammer
02-01-2008, 12:19 AM
Scar, thanks for posting the figures. I had hoped to have a chance to look them up, but work for me right now is crazy.

Ian, I can't tell you how much some of the things you have posted have insulted me and I am sure many more on this board, as you managed to insult a whole section of the country. How dare you insinuate that you are a better fan than I just because I don't think it is worth it to overpay for any big name free agent! How quickly people forget about Jim Thome. We overpaid by 20 million and what did that get this? Overpaying is not the panacea for all ills. There are so many things I could say but I won't out of respect for John and the other members of this board. I asked you to not pick a fight but you went right ahead and did it.

My next post is going to attempt to get this thread back on track (and I am partially guilty for it going off track) to speak of all Hot Stove moves.

Hammer
02-01-2008, 12:32 AM
Fortunately, barring injury, we will not have to have Wes Helms be the Phillies starting 3rd baseman. Our infield looks to be decent and should hit moderately (Feliz) to very well (the rest of the infield). Truthfully, I might have been a better option at 3rd base than Wes Helms and I'm a lefty (not to mention a female) ;) !

Scar, maybe you can answer this as you are a Mets fan. Who is making up your bullpen this year? Someone has to get the game to Wagner because I don't think your starting 5 is going to go 8-9 innings each time out. I don't remember any signings for your bullpen, but I very well may have missed it.

Scar
02-01-2008, 09:20 AM
The Mets signed free agent Matt Wise from Milwaukee, a maybe average RHP.

Other than that, just a few AAA getting a shot and Duaner Sanchez coming back from a major injury (hopefully.)

Of course, Heilman is still there, and Joe Smith has a year under his belt.

I suspect they will try to get at least one more before Opening Day.

Hopefully, if they sign Santana and Pedro is healthy, with the young arms of Perez and Maine, they will be able to go 7-8 innings way more often than last year.

Carol
02-02-2008, 11:08 AM
It’s Official: Santana and Mets Have a Deal
By BEN SHPIGEL
February 2, 2008

It took every bit of their allotted 72 hours, an additional 90 minutes and $137.5 million, but the Mets finally secured the best pitcher in baseball. They reached an agreement with Johan Santana, the dominant left-hander acquired Tuesday from the Minnesota Twins, shortly before 6:30 p.m. Friday, signing him to a contract that would make him the highest-paid pitcher in baseball history.

All that stands between Santana and an introductory news conference next week is the completion of his physical exam, which is scheduled for Saturday.

The Mets and Santana agreed to a six-year, $137.5 million contract through 2013, with an option for the 2014 season, according to a club official who was granted anonymity because he was not authorized to speak publicly about a trade that had not been officially completed.

Santana will be 34 at the end of the guaranteed portion of the contract, which with the low interest rate on deferred money would be worth about $20 million a year in present-day dollars.

Santana had one year and $13.25 million remaining on his contract, but instead of negotiating an extension, the sides worked out a new deal.

After acquiring Santana on Tuesday from the Minnesota Twins for four prospects, the Mets were given 72 hours to negotiate. With the deadline looming, they asked the Twins for permission for additional time, which was approved by the commissioner’s office, and they were granted a two-hour window. They needed about another 90 minutes to complete the negotiations.

The Mets and Santana’s representatives, Peter and Ed Greenberg, were haggling over the length of the contract. The cause of the stalemate, as expected, was the Mets’ reluctance to give Santana six guaranteed years. They preferred a five-year deal with vesting options that could be reached relatively easily.

But in the end, with the leverage in Santana’s favor, the Mets relented and awarded Santana a contract that eclipsed the $126 million deal the left-hander Barry Zito signed with the San Francisco Giants before last season.

The Mets’ investment in Santana should push their 2008 payroll into uncharted territory. With three arbitration cases still awaiting resolution, the Mets are projected to have a payroll of more than $140 million, the largest in team history, dwarfing the $120 million they spent in 2007. The new figure should rank them behind only the Yankees and the Boston Red Sox.

Still, the expenditure comes at a time when the Mets can certainly afford it. They are a year away from opening a new stadium, Citi Field, and their fledgling third-year television network, SportsNet New York, will undoubtedly experience a ratings jump with a competitive team and a rotation headlined by Santana.

With a few other moves possible, namely adding a right-handed hitting veteran outfielder or another starting pitcher like Kyle Lohse, it is conceivable that the Mets’ payroll could sneak past $150 million. It is unlikely that they will exceed the $155 million luxury-tax threshold and be forced to pay a tax for the first time.

For Santana, the contract underscores his status as the best pitcher in baseball, one who is compensated accordingly. For the Mets, the pending acquisition deflects attention from their late-season collapse and directs it squarely toward the arrival of their first heralded addition of the off-season.

But for Omar Minaya, this is the fifth major acquisition of his three and a half years as general manager, and the third time he has gambled a significant sum on a pitcher.

His first four trades had mixed results. But Pedro Martínez left the Red Sox after their 2004 World Series championship season because the Mets offered what Boston did not, a guaranteed fourth year. Martínez’s presence gave the Mets instant credibility and aided in the recruitment of other free agents, but he has been beset by injuries for most of the last two seasons and his health still presents a concern heading into the final year of his contract.

Carlos Beltrán has overcome a disastrous beginning to his Mets career, compiling two consecutive solid seasons, but occasionally he remains the target of frustrated fans. His good friend Carlos Delgado followed a strong 2006 with a disappointing 2007, when Delgado’s age (35) appeared to catch up to him. Closer Billy Wagner, by and large, has pitched effectively, but he has had his share of rough outings.

Of the four, only Beltrán was younger than 30 and still in his prime when he joined the Mets. But now the team has added Santana, who turns 29 on March 13, and whom they expect to help alleviate the pressure on the pitching staff — from Martínez and the two young starters, John Maine and Oliver Pérez, to an overused bullpen that combusted during the final month of last season.

Since 2004, when he won the first of his two Cy Young awards, Santana ranks first among qualifying pitchers in victories (70), opponent batting average (.211) and strikeouts (983), and second in earned run average (2.89), innings pitched (912 1/3) and strikeouts per nine innings (9.70).

By switching leagues, Santana can take advantage of the fact that his best pitch, a changeup, is built on deception. He will also be facing players who are largely unfamiliar with his pitches.

Santana has a 16-4 career record in 35 appearances — 24 starts — against National League teams, holding hitters to a .187 average while posting a 2.27 E.R.A. that is the best among pitchers who have pitched at least 150 interleague innings, according to Stats LLC. He figures to provide particular value against the rival Philadelphia Phillies, who employ two of the best left-handed hitters in baseball, Chase Utley and Ryan Howard.

The Mets have 18 chances against the Phillies to avenge losing their division crown, and the addition of Santana figures to heighten the rivalry. After all, with a record deal completed, Santana will be around for seven more seasons trying to fulfill the expectations and lead the Mets to the World Series.


The Mets avoided arbitration with their left-handed specialist, Pedro Feliciano, on Friday by signing him to a one-year, $1.025 million contract.


:)

Hammer
02-02-2008, 12:24 PM
But for Omar Minaya, this is the fifth major acquisition of his three and a half years as general manager, and the third time he has gambled a significant sum on a pitcher.

His first four trades had mixed results. But Pedro Martínez left the Red Sox after their 2004 World Series championship season because the Mets offered what Boston did not, a guaranteed fourth year. Martínez’s presence gave the Mets instant credibility and aided in the recruitment of other free agents, but he has been beset by injuries for most of the last two seasons and his health still presents a concern heading into the final year of his contract.

Carlos Beltrán has overcome a disastrous beginning to his Mets career, compiling two consecutive solid seasons, but occasionally he remains the target of frustrated fans. His good friend Carlos Delgado followed a strong 2006 with a disappointing 2007, when Delgado’s age (35) appeared to catch up to him. Closer Billy Wagner, by and large, has pitched effectively, but he has had his share of rough outings.


Well, as a Phillies fan, I hope Minaya "mixed results" remain. As the article shows, none of his signings has achieved the level of success that he and Mets fans had hoped for. I do not doubt the Santana will be a fantastic pitcher, but like I said eariler, he can't make Beltran and Delgado return to their consistant hitting prowess, and he can't fortify the bullpen. Then again, you can make a list like this for the Phillies or any other team in MLB as well. It's a 162 game marathon and as we saw last year, anything can happen. People talk about the Mets collapse, but it wouldn't have been as big of a deal if the Phillies didn't rise to the occasion and kept winning. A couple of seasons back, the Tigers had a similar late season swoon, but the Indians did not take advantage.

It should make for a fantastic rivalry for this year and many years to come. Carol and Scar, are either of you going to be coming down this year for a Phillies/Mets game? There are a few weekend series between the 2 teams this year. Let me know if either of you decide to go to a Sunday game and we can meet up. Cheryl and I aren't afraid to be seen with Mets fans ;) .