Phone Call From WDW Re: Dining Plan

[magicman]

A month ago I e-mailed WDW my complaints about the changes to the 2008 Dining Plan. Although I mentioned in the complaint that there was a reduction in the value of the 2008 plan vs. the current plan, the focus of the complaint was in not letting the customer/diner choose between an appetizer OR dessert (health reasons).

This last Saturday I got a call from an extremely nice Cast Member from Disney:mickey:. She wanted to hear my concerns.

When I asked her what prompted the changes, she said that customers had said that the existing Dining Plan included too much food (which I can understand).

She also said that they had received many, many complaints about the changes in the 2008 plan, and she would forward my comments to her superiors.

I'm not hoping for any major changes in the decision, but I do find it encouraging that they responded to my complaint and were receptive to the concerns. (I am hoping and :tink:WISHING for a future concession that would allow substituting an appetizer for the dessert.)

[Mfarquar]

Thanks for taking action about something that has really bothered a lot of us! I completely agree with you - there is a lot less value. I also think the gratuity not being included makes it almost not worth getting (unless it was during the free dining period). We would always leave a little extra tip, but having to pay the full tip plus the per day charge makes it a lot more expensive!

Anyway, you've inspired me to do the same. It's nice to think that Disney takes loyal customers seriously!

Thanks for sharing your experience!

[goofyfan4466]

A month ago I e-mailed WDW my complaints about the changes to the 2008 Dining Plan. Although I mentioned in the complaint that there was a reduction in the value of the 2008 plan vs. the current plan, the focus of the complaint was in not letting the customer/diner choose between an appetizer OR dessert (health reasons).

This last Saturday I got a call from an extremely nice Cast Member from Disney:mickey:. She wanted to hear my concerns.

When I asked her what prompted the changes, she said that customers had said that the existing Dining Plan included too much food (which I can understand).

She also said that they had received many, many complaints about the changes in the 2008 plan, and she would forward my comments to her superiors.

I'm not hoping for any major changes in the decision, but I do find it encouraging that they responded to my complaint and were receptive to the concerns. (I am hoping and :tink:WISHING for a future concession that would allow substituting an appetizer for the dessert.)

can you give the rest of us the email address ?
thank you !!!

[SAHDad]

Oddly enough, I was going to email and complain about the changes too - but then again, I didn't think that there was too much on the original plan, and planned on using it for our next trip. After the changes, a quick numbers-crunching exercise showed me that the new dining plan would probably only save us about $10-$20, over a 5 night stay.

[laprana]

:ditto: When they came out with the changes, I had thought about e-mailing WDW about how disappointed I was that the DDP was no longer a very good value. But, I never did because I didn't really think an e-mail from me would garner any response from a huge company like Disney. Hearing that they are really reading these e-mails and taking into consideration what their customers are saying, I'd like to e-mail them with my concerns, also. Maybe if enough people do the same, they'll reconsider at least some of the DDP changes. If nothing else, they should lower the price more than $1.00 per person to make up for all the other parts of the plan that have been taken away!!

[magicman]

can you give the rest of us the email address ?
thank you !!!

The e-mail address is below. Also, don't forget to include your phone number in your message.
[email protected]

[lockedoutlogic]

I personally like the changes in 08....

...because it will lead to the ultimate downfall of the Dining Plan.

Since 2004...Disney has done exactly with the dinng plan as I expected them too....

They made it a good deal,

Slowly spread the word and offered it to more people,

Got everyone on to it to the point where it's pretty much mandatory for those that are vacationing....and also a tremendous inconvenience to the Florida residents who have always frequented WDW, but on a more casual basis,

Completely altered the DRS (dining) system to accomodate it (I was told about a year ago that the system had always fully booked reservations by guest relations at the Magic Kingdom. Which might had worked...if I hadn't worked on the dining system at the resorts and didn't know the exact details of the assignment numbers)

And made it a standard practice,


Now they are increasing the price, offering a premium plan, taking off tips and gratuities (which make no mistake - is about reducing the pay for their hourly food staff...even if the unions are tricked into thinking it is not), and offering a second "premium" tier that will run a person $500.00 for the week...which means they have to order at least two full course sitdown meals each day for the equivalent menu price value to be reached....which people have a hard time doing for trips longer than about 4 days due to overconsumption.

DDP turned out exactly as it was intended...it is a replacement for the Discovery and Deluxe Magic Plans that they sold unsuccessfully throughut the 90's into 2003....a prepaid, guaranteed revenue source that they could base their profit projections and staffing levels around. But those plans offered recreation....now people will buy DDP and pay for their watermice and horseback rides separately....

Brilliant...and I'm not even mentioning the sham that is "free dining"....

The result is a higher bottomline...which the goal always is. You can't blame disney...they are a profit driven business company...but they spin it to the unknowing public with "values" like these. Since Day 1 I have said the DDP was about prepaying costs so that people will spend more discretionary funding on merchandise once they arrive...which is where the lion's share of profits are yielded at WDW....

...nothing has led me to believe that I miscalculated that...and nothing suggests that goal is not being achieved....

Makes it alot easier to spend $85.00 on makeup at the Bibbidee Bobbidee Boutique if you don't see the money going onto your Visa everyday to the tune of $150.00+ for a family of 4 on food, doesn't it?

Boy, i'm nervy today....:blush:

[NJGIRL]

Where's the magic?;) I agree LOCKED, Disney is no different than any other company...they reel you in with a great deal and once you are hooked into eating sitdown they slyly raise the price making it look like a reduced price.

I know alot of people aren't happy but maybe now the restaurants won't be fully booked and it will be easier for people who go at peak season to do sitdown.

We never used the plan. Although we do one sit down per day, the plan had just tooo much food for us to eat and I hate wasting food especailly if I'm paying for it.;)

[magicman]

I personally like the changes in 08....

...because it will lead to the ultimate downfall of the Dining Plan.

Since 2004...Disney has done exactly with the dinng plan as I expected them too....

They made it a good deal,

Slowly spread the word and offered it to more people,

Got everyone on to it to the point where it's pretty much mandatory for those that are vacationing....and also a tremendous inconvenience to the Florida residents who have always frequented WDW, but on a more casual basis,

Completely altered the DRS (dining) system to accomodate it (I was told about a year ago that the system had always fully booked reservations by guest relations at the Magic Kingdom. Which might had worked...if I hadn't worked on the dining system at the resorts and didn't know the exact details of the assignment numbers)

And made it a standard practice,


Now they are increasing the price, offering a premium plan, taking off tips and gratuities (which make no mistake - is about reducing the pay for their hourly food staff...even if the unions are tricked into thinking it is not), and offering a second "premium" tier that will run a person $500.00 for the week...which means they have to order at least two full course sitdown meals each day for the equivalent menu price value to be reached....which people have a hard time doing for trips longer than about 4 days due to overconsumption.

DDP turned out exactly as it was intended...it is a replacement for the Discovery and Deluxe Magic Plans that they sold unsuccessfully throughut the 90's into 2003....a prepaid, guaranteed revenue source that they could base their profit projections and staffing levels around. But those plans offered recreation....now people will buy DDP and pay for their watermice and horseback rides separately....

Brilliant...and I'm not even mentioning the sham that is "free dining"....

The result is a higher bottomline...which the goal always is. You can't blame disney...they are a profit driven business company...but they spin it to the unknowing public with "values" like these. Since Day 1 I have said the DDP was about prepaying costs so that people will spend more discretionary funding on merchandise once they arrive...which is where the lion's share of profits are yielded at WDW....

...nothing has led me to believe that I miscalculated that...and nothing suggests that goal is not being achieved....

Makes it alot easier to spend $85.00 on makeup at the Bibbidee Bobbidee Boutique if you don't see the money going onto your Visa everyday to the tune of $150.00+ for a family of 4 on food, doesn't it?

Boy, i'm nervy today....:blush:

I had no idea that Disney was so conspiracy minded. You've almost got me believing that Walt was the second gunman hiding behind the grassy knoll.

[Polynesian Dweller]

Thanks magicman for doing what lots of us should. The 2008 plan is no value at all from our perspective. Having to pay the gratuities at full value removes the advantage for us. It makes no difference really if we pre-pay or put that same money away and take it with us to spend at the restaurant, unless there is a value to the DDP.

The 2008 plan's value is reduced even further when you see how the number of restaurants have been reduced over the last 2 years. Some fo the best restaurants are at Downtown and they have all but disappeared so you pay anyway if you want to go there.

[lockedoutlogic]

I had no idea that Disney was so conspiracy minded. You've almost got me believing that Walt was the second gunman hiding behind the grassy knoll.

It's not a conspiracy theory....

It's a proven business model....

A similar activity was the Ultimate Park Hopper....

When you buy a ticket...the monetary value of the tickets "explode" and is directed to the different guest areas for accounting purposes....

They sold these length of stay tickets that had "everything, as much as you want"....the problem was that guests were not completely satisfied with it....and it actually hurt disney.

So you tell someone at check in (I mean...so I'm told ;) ) that they can go to the waterparks, pleasure island, parks, etc as much as they want...then the tickets expire.

So what happened in many cases was that people tried to cram as much as they could into their trip.

The practical yield was twofold:
1. People absolutely killed themselves trying to get value from their ticket...resulting on trips to the other areas and themeparks that potentially soured them on those locations for their next trip.
2. Still, at the end of the day, people felt their ticket was wasted. Which is the kiss of death for WDW's business. It is too costly of a family location to have those leaving think they were taken in anyway. It shakes the foundation of their vital repeat business....

So they eliminate that for the "Magic your way" program....genius
Even the name implies it's completely to your desires. Now you can get the no expiration if you want it for a fee (which they had before...but on the park hopper and park hopper pluses that they didn't push in their marketing)
You can have the waterparks and space them out over several trips....or just go to typhoon one day and foot the bill on your own.
You can buy the park hopper...which again puts more emphasis on choice.
And since the primary focus was shifted in marketing design back to the four main gates.....they increased the ticket prices to $70 dollars a day....genius again!

The base park ticket was 52.50 when I started there in 00....it's 71 now? That's a 35% increase in 7 years....
I hope they never offer variable rate Disney mortgages:secret:

So now the "choice" is built back in...all with associated fees....and the gate revenues are starting to take a bigger cut out of the operating and improvement expenses (tickets make nothing...operational costs are astronomical compared to the revenues generated by them)

It's not conspiracy...it's business sense, marketing, brand identity, and semantics all rolled into one.....

They do a great job of maintaining the "Magic,Wishes,Dreams,Wonder" public line...but the word "behind the curtain" (my second wizard of Oz reference this week...I better call my therapist) starts with an "M" and ends in "o-n-e-y"

And sadly...I respect, distrust, and still love to go to the place!!

[Jared]

Finally, more people are starting to see the inherent flaws with the Disney Dining Plan. The forthcoming changes are simply an example of why this seemingly incredible deal is a sham.

Everybody should have the opportunity to have an appetizer or dessert. I agree, allowing each person both led to overeating. Giving guests the option is perfectly reasonable and appropriate.

[Crow]

Well im glad they called.
and i appreciate the business model you explained.
of course it is the bottom line....profit. as it is w all businesses.
May was my first use of the DDP and ill will b on free dining Friday.
i doubt i will use it again. but who knows if they give me a free dining offer for next Sept while im staying this time...i may use the 1 day pass i have to get w it towards an AP renewal...if i upgrade my pass this trip to AP
of course, AP rates w DDE may b better.
its all about the $:thedolls:

[irish1967]

its all about the $:thedolls:

I've been thinking about this today and I have come to the conclusion that, for a lot of people, it isn't "all" about the dollar...

The thing about "value" is that it is both objective and subjective. Both must be considered when determining if the Dining Plan is right for someone.

For many people, it is the about the dollar...
I can purchase the dining plan for $xx.xx (plus tips) or I can purchase my meals out of pocket for $yy.yy (tips included)

Compare $xx.xx and $yy.yy and go with whatever is less - purely objective.

(I wonder, though, when it comes to "Free Dining" how many people crunch the numbers comparing "rack rate" for rooms vs available discounts and no dining play or paying for the dining plan!)

BUT, there are people that will also consider subjective reasons when determing if the dining plan is a good value. For example, when our entire family spends 3 nights/4 days at WDW every other year, my DDad will pick up the food tab. He thinks that there is considerable amount of value in 1) knowing how much food will cost up front and 2) not having to deal with receipts from 7 adults and a couple of teenagers and figuring out who to pay back. Obviously, the decision is primarily based on cost (if the DDP cost $100/day per person, he'd deal with the receipts) but he does consider convenience in it and I'm sure has some number in his head as to how much he'd be willing to pay for the Dining Plan so that it is worth his while.

Obviously, subjective decisions about value are being made by everyone - otherwise everyone would be staying off-site, picnicing in the park and only going to one park per day. Does this make sense?

Disney is all about providing the options to maximize profit from EVERYONE! (and as a minor shareholder, I appreciate that - even though I spend way more $$$ in the parks than I ever get back from my dividends!):mickey:

[FriendsofMickey]

When I asked her what prompted the changes, she said that customers had said that the existing Dining Plan included too much food (which I can understand).



I do not understand someone calling and complaining about there being too much food on the Plan. I can understand thinking it; however, just do not order it! It is as simple as that.
If you don't want to eat the CS, then don't eat a CS. If you sit for a TS a day, you will most likely break even (at least with the existing DDP).

It also doesn't make sense to me that if their reason for changing it was because of too much food, then why take away the tips/gratuties? Did she mention that?

Personally, the reason why we really like using the DDP is because it takes the need to consider how much you are spending out of your mind (while you are on vacation). You already have considered the cost up front and paid for it. But now it will be a lot less convenient. Because we are back to either carrying the extra cash or charging the gratuity.
Currently, the DDP kind of makes the vacation all inclusive (like going on the cruise). All you have to worry about is what you are purchasing as extra (souvineers/trinkets/...). They are taking that away by removing the gratuities.

[kim1st]

:soapbox:

Alright...I might sound like a total sucker here...and I'm still not really sure that when we went to Disney we got the most for our $$$ even on the old Dining Plan...BUT...

For the conspiracy theorists...shouldn't we kind of be GLAD that Disney can still make boatloads of money doing what they're doing - even if it means suckering many of us into buying packages that "don't really save us money".

I mean...all that :magic: costs money, and if they weren't able to keep that money coming in through gimmicks, things might not be so magical????

I mean - if a family splurges on a trip - and they can truly only afford one family vacation to Disney World in their entire lifetime - they will 100% get their money's worth...is there any other place out there that can say that? (Really - Think hard about the customer service that you get elsewhere...especially for those of us in the Northeast.)

I know - you're probably thinking that next I'll be saying to cut the pharmaceutical companies and Exxon Mobil some slack (NOT! - totally different thing!!!)...

Anyway - I'd just say let's be realistic - no one is giving away anything for free unless it somehow helps out their bottom line - they are a corporation, not a charitable organization. As consumers, we get to choose to purchase it - or not - and if we don't buy it they'll stop selling it.

:soapbox:

OK - I'm done - Sorry!

[princessgirls]

Magicman... Good for you, e-mailing and getting a call back. I agree with you on the new dining plan for 2008, what's wrong with a choice.

Here is my two cents worth on the whole "package thing" with Disney. I did two vacations this year in Disney. One staying at a friends time-share which did not cost my family anything for lodging. Here is where is really cost us though: rental car, eating a CS and TS in the parks and an ice-cream snack per person $150 per day. 5 day Base Ticket, 2 adults 2 children $775. I couldn't see doing the hopper because that was going to be another $180 bucks per family. Parking $10 per day. This four night five day trip cost me MORE money than my 8 night trip with the DDP at the end of August. We did receive the dining for "free", which took $700 off my package price for my family of four.
In regards to the DDP, as many of you have said it is so nice to have that all factored into the original cost upfront.
Anyway, just my little story...
Julie:mickey:

[LibertyTreeGal]

Well, I wrote them and told them (politely) that I actually would have preferred a complete elimination of the DDP instead of what they did, and that I wished there were different children's options and that I would be willing to pay more for them. So we'll see.

And I don't understand why anyone would complain about too much food either (although I did mention that I wouldn't do the deluxe because it was too much for me). If you don't want too much food then don't order the appetizer and dessert! I don't buy snacks, I buy water -- my choice.

[mermaidmarian]

Well, I wrote them and told them (politely) that I actually would have preferred a complete elimination of the DDP instead of what they did, and that I wished there were different children's options and that I would be willing to pay more for them. So we'll see.

And I don't understand why anyone would complain about too much food either (although I did mention that I wouldn't do the deluxe because it was too much for me). If you don't want too much food then don't order the appetizer and dessert! I don't buy snacks, I buy water -- my choice.


Dining plan never seemed like a good deal to us from either an expense standpoint or from the view that it required considerably more planning around meals vs. recreation. One real reason that the dining plan did not suit our family is that I too am unenthusiastic about the meal options for children, particularly at TS restaurants. Consequently, we eat at the resort food court at least one meal a day, both because I can create an ala carte meal for my child and also because of convenience.

With respect to the complaints about too much food, I think it tracks along the frequent debate in this country about portion size and control. From the comments that I heard about too much food, most of the complainants felt that they were just conditioned over the course of their vacation to eat more because they could, or because it came with the meal, or, because they felt that they had paid for something and to not eat it would be wasteful.

I too hope that the modifications to the dining plan will lead to fewer people participating thus alleviating some of the stress (as I see it) on the dining program.

BTW, regarding the free dining offer: I was at the end leg of my recent trip staying at PORiverside when free dining began. I was standing in the Concierge line to pick up party tickets and began talking with the people in line around me. The 2 groups in front of me and the 1 group behind were all very distressed that they had come for free dining, and couldn't get TS anywhere and were essentially in line to complain. Notwithstanding the argument that people "should know" that they have to plan, a fairly high percentage just don't know that they HAVE to do that. I know that these 3 different groups of guests were very unhappy with state of things at that time - they didn't see the free dining as a value to them at all. When an offer or program reaches this type of tipping point, I think it is time for a reassessment. JMO.

[scottgr]

I would have to agree with most of ya. I also very disappointed in the new DDP plan. I plan on emailing them with my disappointment. I am sure it will do nothing, but I will still try. As I see it, for a family of 4 on the new DDP it is going to cost at least another 40 dollars a day. If you plan on eating the same way you did on the old plan....:mickey:

[TheRustyScupper]

. . . I personally like the changes in 08.... because it will lead to the ultimate downfall of the Dining Plan . . .

1) I like your points.
2) I agree with your thoughts.

[thejens]

Good discussion. I agree with the posters who like the plan primarily because you no longer have to worry about money once you are on vacation. I don't have to have that awful worry about exactly how much is on my bill so far. I love the carefree, pre-paid,all inclusive feeling, and yes I probably do spend more on souvenirs! I HATE that I now have to pay tips.:mad: I know I will feel VERY resentful about bad service since my understanding is that it was a union demand to take the tips out of the plan. I also hate the nonsense about taking appetizers out because of customer demand. Please! We gave you less for your money at your request?! Yeah, right. :mad: I liked getting to splurge on appetizers and dessert. The deluxe dining plan is way overkill and very expensive. Okay, now that I've vented, I'll let Disney know how I feel. I think we all should.

[MouseHouser]

I agree, now that Disney has many people hooked on the DDP, they are taking advantage to jack up the price and lower the benefit. But at the end of the day, I'm glad the restaurants are doing a brisk business. The day Disney starts to become less viable as a business is the day the premium vacation experience we all enjoy will start to suffer.

And to me the benefit of having the option of the dining plan, even under next year's terms, outweighs the inconvenience of having to plan ahead to get ADR's.

[DisneyTwinsMommy]

I have never used the DDP, but I have done ALOT of research on it... I have charts and spreadsheets trying to decide on the best value with and without the DDP... (I'm on bed rest with twins, not much else to do, lol...)

I also agree that the DDP has drastically decreased in value with the new changes, having to pay for your own tips literally adds 15-20% to the cost of your plan...

With all of my calculations and how my family chooses to eat in WDW, the DDP is NOT a value, which the only exception of free dining... If they happen to offer free dining again next fall, I "may" consider it... if not, we will continue to pay OOP just like we always have...

What I have to remember is that I am not the vacationer that Disney wants in their park... The average family does Disney once every 3-5 years?? And they do it GREAT!! Nothing held back, that is the customers Disney wants in their resort... My family are annual pass holders, who go on 3 (one week) vacations with every pass. If I can save money by packing snacks, eating breakfast in the room, having TS lunches instead of dinners, then that is what I am going to do. To me, there is more value to going many more times than spending massive quantities of money all at once...

My husband and I chose to do ONE new TS meal each trip that we have never done before, and if it takes us 25 more years to go to them all, then we will just have to keep going back... :mickey:

[irish1967]

I have never used the DDP, but I have done ALOT of research on it... I have charts and spreadsheets trying to decide on the best value with and without the DDP... (I'm on bed rest with twins, not much else to do, lol...) :mickey:

LOL - I do this and I'm not on bedrest:mickey:

[magicman]

I have never used the DDP, but I have done ALOT of research on it... I have charts and spreadsheets trying to decide on the best value with and without the DDP... (I'm on bed rest with twins, not much else to do, lol...)



LOL - I do this and I'm not on bedrest:mickey:

Ahhh yes...nothing says planning fun quite like time with my color-coded WDW planning spreadsheets.:thumbsup:

DisneyTwinsMommy, Once those twins are born:wishes: you might be able to create separate tabs/worksheets for each twin in your excel speadsheets. You could take your planning, tracking, and WDW enjoyment metrics to a whole other level!!!!:woohoo::woohoo:

[irish1967]

:mickey:I am trying to light a fire under my brothers and their families so we can narrow down the dates for our bi-annual (is that the right word - every other year is what I mean!) trip for my extended family next July.

I'm ready to start planning meals and can't until the dates are set!

I can't color code with ink (I don't have a color printer) but I have been know to color code with the paper I use to print on!

Some would say I need a life - but I argue that I have one that is centered on all things Disney! :mickey:

[merlinmagic4]

And I don't understand why anyone would complain about too much food either (although I did mention that I wouldn't do the deluxe because it was too much for me). If you don't want too much food then don't order the appetizer and dessert! I don't buy snacks, I buy water -- my choice.

I think people order the appetizer and dessert because they feel they should as part of their "package". I imagine a lot of food gets wasted. I don't know about others but I certainly can't eat an appetizer. full entree, and dessert. You're absolutely right that it's a choice and people don't need to order it but they do to feel like they're getting their money's worth.