Feelings on the 2008 Dining Plan/Will You Purchase The Dining Plan in 2008? [Merged]

[Disneytravels]

**Moderator Note**


This thread is for sharing opinions on the changes for the 2008 Dining Plan changes only.

Any questions or need for clarification about the changes should go in 2008 room rates and packages now available, (http://www.intercot.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=111976)where Magical Journeys has posted the 2008 Magic My Way with Dining Package info.

Thank you.



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Wow.. I not sure how to take the new changes in the dining packages for 2008!




I am flipped both ways on not having the gratuties included now in 2008 dining - Yes I think some servers should have to work for it but it was nice not to have to worry about it also. We have ate with the dining plan 4 times and ready for our fifth in 38 days! :mickey:
We like the fact that it was included but because of a survey that Disney did most people didn't want the gratuities included anymore. The price of it went down from 39.99 to 38.99 adult and 11.99 to 10.99 for child ages 3-9. Only 1 dollar but its something.
Now they have a deluxe dining with out the Premium upgrades- its got 3 table service a day and two snacks per person. I believe that one is 69.99 a night/day. I have alot of clients going in the new year and I am not thinking they are going to be too pleased with the changes- I am keeping my fingers crossed.
I am intrested what others thing of the changes?
Thanks
:thumbsup:

[Raye3201]

:mad:It seems like it is Disney's way of raising the price while trying to mask the increase. For a family of 4 like mine, $4.00 a day discount off the price will not cover a tip for a table service meal.
I'm thinking we will not be buying the dining plan included from now on

[Horizon93]

I have never used DDP. I may someday. I am actually looking at DDE.

I do think that the price should be lower with the gratuity removed. I do, however, think that I would have tipped anyway. The servers make very little and their tips really are their livelihood.

[WishingStar2006]

It's not just the gratuity that's not included...you also don't get an appetizer with your TS meal. So, although the price went down a whopping $1.00 your costs just went up significantly.. example: Appetizer $6.00, 18% tip on say a $50.00 meal is $9.00 total increase is $15.00 per TS...it makes the DDP not a value at all. Just another disappointment coming from Disney...too many changes and none of them are for the benefit of us frequent travelers....where's that discount????

Sorry, I'll get off my soap box now... :number1:

[BelleBeauty]

I am incredibly disappointed. The DDP was a good way for Disney to get us to use more table service restaurants - I admit that without the DDP we would probably only do a few TS dinners a trip. I was very very happy with the plan before.

I had heard rumors about the tip not being included. I didn't like the idea because you never know what the total will be for your meal, and you are calculating the tip from the "real" total, not the total you pay for your DDP. I liked being able to pay in advance and not have to worry about it.

What will probably put me over the edge of not using the DDP (even though it makes me sad) is that there is no longer an appetizer included. Perhaps they should have just looked into lowering the quantity of appetizers, limiting it to 2 per table, etc. I don't need to have one to myself, but trying extra food was nice. I would rather they got rid of dessert, it is always wasted after all of that food, and dessert is something that everyone is more likely to share if we want to pay the extra cost.

The Wine & Dine for $39.99 is a good deal. I'm wondering about the logistics. Is that paid per adult in the room, but not per child? Does everyone adult have to be on the Wine & Dine, or just one - since the wine is per room. I mean, the $1 increase with a nice bottle of wine each day would make that worth my while - even without the appetizer.

[disneynarula]

I think that if they are not going to include and appetizer or a gratuity they need to lower the price alot more.

We are going in Sept to take advantage of the free dining bc DH is sort of a penny pincher and would never would pay for all the bells and whistles at all the TS restaurants.

Anyway once again WDW is masking a huge price increase with a discount.

[Jen C.]

To us, the value is still there. I don't mind much about the tip. I'm not too disappointed in the leaving out the appetizer. If we want one, it'll be OOP that's all. I guess I'm in the minority here, but I really don't mind. It seemed like such a phenomenal deal before, and now it seems a nice deal with some benefits. We'll still do it.
I like the flexibility in picking your plan. We might go deluxe dining next year. Although the regular dining was just SO much food already.:confused:

[Donald A]

My wife and I are taking a group of 8 in January. We planned the trip using the dining plan as something we would get. We have a table service planned each day. I am thinking that the dining plan will actually cost us more money. We have decided to keep our reservations and just pay cash. Now we can share appetizers and split or not get dessert. My wife actually figured it out financially based on what she would order. The expensive restaurants might make the plan worth it but all in all it is not worth it. Plus, being DVC members we will get the AP and the DDE which means 20% off our table service.

Another advantage of going sans-DDP is flexibility. Maybe you want to eat a counter service breakfast and eat a quick sandwich for lunch. Without the dining plan you eat what you want when you want without worrying about what you have left in terms of meals. Maybe you skip dessert in favor of a bagel earlier in the day. I believe the DDP ties you down. I am on vacation and the DDP used to be a good idea. Next trip I'll skip it.

[IloveDisney71]

:down:I know my family will no longer be purchaing the DDP because it will no longer be a good deal for us. In the future we will just pick our 3 favorite table service rest.'s and then eat counter service the rest of the time. That's what we used to do so I know this will be the best use of our money. I'm very sad with these changes. I can't imagine what Disney is thinking...it's as if they want fewer people to purchase the DDP or something. I just doesn't make sense. :(

[GoinGoofyPlanninThisTrip]

The Dining Plan changes stink. They took a good thing that I'm sure was profitable for them (or it wouldn't have lasted this long) and absolutely ruined it. :mad:

[Speedy1998]

We like the fact that it was included but because of a survey that Disney did most people didn't want the gratuities included anymore. :

I thought the tip was no longer going to be included because of the new labor contract that was just signed this summer. What I had heard was that the Union did not want the tips included for some reason. (Actually, I had a discussion with someone that the reason the wait staff did not want the tip included was because it was showing up on their W-2s.)

[LauraF]

I'm definitely not planning on getting the DDP for my next trip in 2008. In another post I called it the "buy 18 meals, get 1 free deal", which is about how the cost/value ratio works out with the new prices. :(

I'm disappointed in the new plan, and while I'm happy to hear that servers will have a better chance of getting their tips, the plan no longer fits my vacation style. I think people will continue to purchase the plan, because it *sounds* like a value. Whatever - I still plan to eat at the parks, but now I'll be budgeting food costs into it like in the old days.

[Marker]

Marker - MJ announced the changes this morning.

OK, the rumor aspect is apparently resolved.

So, the automatic tip was taken away, which is exactly what a lot of people seemed to want.

The price went down, not much, but that's still better than going up.

They excluded the appetizer..... well, personally, I wish they would have made it 1 appetizer OR desert .... I would much rather have the appetizer than the desert. Either way, it was always A LOT of food, I don't think this going to cause me to go hungry.

In fact, if they'd have made it "OR", I think I'd have loved it.

All in all, I can live with it.

And they also added the deluxe version, which does include an appetizer. But HOLY COW, 3 TS meals and 2 snacks...... THERE'S NO WAY WE'D GO THROUGH THAT MUCH FOOD, and we eat a lot.

As for the tip not being included, yes, that does raise the overall cost. But, it's what a lot of people wanted. If it is indeed what the new labor contract requires, then there was wasn't really a choice. It only effect 1 meal per day (on the basic plan). Without the appetizers included, the tip will be less (unless you order an appetizer anyway).

To anticipate that the cost wouldn't have gone up is in my view a bit naive. So for me, it's a fairly reasonable compromise.

Either way, it is what it is, and based on that, I'll choose whether or not to use it.

[Catwillow]

So, my question about this is......

If we are 'required' to put out a tip (gratuity) ... which per Webster Gratuity = something given voluntarily or beyond obligation usually for some service...then IF we don't feel the service is worth 18% then what is suggested. I can tell you quite frankly that up to this point in ALL my dining experiences I have yet to receive service worth $20 (family of 4 @ TS<-2adults 2 children). And what about a buffet type restaurant?? Again...I have yet to receive any where near $20 worth of table service from ANY wait staff. Not that at times the service has been good...but 18% I consider to be top notch service...no empty glasses (which is a HUGE issue) and no dirty dishes (another huge issues).

[crazeedizneefinatic]

Well, I can say that the new changes won't mean too much to our family. This is the 1st year we are doing it and only because it is free. I too found it extremely disturbing to have to plan meals 180 days in advance, not even sure what's for dinner tomorrow! LOL. We are not sit down dinner people ever single night anyway, especially on vacation. Well, with that said and out of the way.... I do feel bad for the servers. If indeed the tip is not included. Can you imagine the people who will leave a subpar tip or none at all. What about the family of 8 who has saved and saved and doesn't really have the money for tips and chooses to spend that hard earned money on souveniers. I think the waiters and waitresses or whomever has pushed this issue has cut their own throat. Reading over the new changes the highest tier is just plain ridiculous. 3 TS meal per day! I had trouble planning just 1! I think Disney will make a fortune on that till people get wise to the fact that 3 TS meals per day is just crazy. All you would do is eat all day long. Maybe they can include a free years membership to Jenny Craig! Can you imagine the dining line, scary! Maybe they would have to push the ADR date out to 365 days! Just my opinion though.:mickey:

[Twinsowner]

I have to agree this time that the changes stink! The dining plan was one of the major reasons my wife and I have fallen in love with Disneyworld. No appetizer.....WHAT!!!!!! rather they done away with the dessert. And fo r the servers.. I think as someone else said , they have cut their own throat. full resturaunts with 18 % vs not full resturaunts with less than 18% or nothing!!! Ouch. It was so nice not to have to worry with bringing any cash on our trip and enjoying fantastic meals that we normally would not afford. Guess its back to counter service. Sorry Disney. May even change our plans to attend every year now.

[TheRustyScupper]

1) There is disagreement as to WHY the change was made.
2) The union was against it, because of taxes on tips.
3) Many wait-staff make over $80,000, and the taxes got higher.
4) A server's life/pay at WDW is not as bad as many think.

5) What seems to have missed here is the price increase.
6) The changes amount to a minimum 25&#37; increase.
7) For 2 TS restaurants, the increase is about 35%.
8) But, the public will never recognize this.
9) More people will lose money on buying the DDP.
10) Oh, well, the gullibility of the public . . . . . .

NOTE: Unless it has been overlooked, the Deluxe DDP Plan is the seldom purchased Premium Plan, with just a slight change. Rename an old package/product and sell it as new.

[hokies4life]

The Wine & Dine for $39.99 is a good deal. I'm wondering about the logistics. Is that paid per adult in the room, but not per child? Does everyone adult have to be on the Wine & Dine, or just one - since the wine is per room. I mean, the $1 increase with a nice bottle of wine each day would make that worth my while - even without the appetizer.

I was under the impression that the Wine & Dine was an extra $39.99 each day, not a simple $1 increase per day for a whole bottle of wine.

[magicman]

In light of the changes taking place to the Dining Plan beginning in 2008, how will it impact your decision to purchase the Dining Plan.

As for me, I have purchased the Standard Dining Plan (DDP) in the past, but I don't plan on purchasing it in the future.

[NewmanFamily6]

No I can't justify the cost for my family of 6. With the changes to it anyway it is less appealing.

[SignguyTom]

We will still purchase in 2008, but probably not beyond that. I would have liked to have seen at least a choice between appetizer & dessert since I really don't have much of a sweet tooth. The gratuity thing kind of steams me, but if it is true that the servers were not receiving the included tips, then I understand from their point of view. Overall, if you still want an appetizer and include the tip, the plan cost was raised by over 45&#37;. That seems pretty steep to me...:(

[SBETigg]

Even with the changes, it is still a money-saver for my family in most cases and, it is so convenient to pay it off in advance! So yes, we will probably still use it. The loss of appetizer is fine because it is too much food at one meal otherwise and we typically tip twenty percent.

[IC10]

I debated the new prices then I thought who really cares I like to have my food paid for one less thing for me to stress about to save money for. I know I will be sure to eat but the one thing I would love to see is the wine list...

[WishingStar2006]

No, we will not be purchasing the DDp in the future...it's just not a cost savings at all and although you can pre-pay that much of your meal you still have to be prepared (and try to budget) for the gratuity and the appetizer, if you get one. I read somewhere that tax is not longer included either, but I can't remember where I read that.

If the servers weren't receiving their tips then that's an internal Disney problem and should not have been passed on to us as a additional cost......

[DizneyRox]

Never got it (never have any value to me) and I don't see anything convincing me otherwise.

I tip based on service, so having the gratuity included isn't part of that decision for 2008, I actaully like the fact that tip isn't included now (allows me to dangle a tip in fron tof a server for good service). Value is what I base my decisions on, and I see less now than before. Lowering the price a buck is a joke.

[Gator]

It used to be a good deal. Pre-pay for appetizer, meal, dessert, and tip. Now the plan goes down $1 and decreases the value by $12-20. Based on the way Disney is raising prices for everything else, this is no suprise. It's almost like Disney is doing all it can (in combination with the airlines) to keep my family from ever returning. Bummer.

[Polynesian Dweller]

Easy answer. No! This year it was marginally a value for us but with the increased prices and the dropping of virtually all DTD restaurants (on Captain Jack's left) the value has disappeared. Too bad. A good idea but transforming into simply a prepair dining program. and expensive at that.

[mook3y]

IF I were to do the DDP again, it would most likely be the Deluxe version with wine added.

However, honestly, the DDP is so much food and with the changes I dont know that I will ever do DDP again.

A typical meal anywhere at WDW is easily enough to feed my DW and myself. I forsee us eating breakfast in room and using DDE to just pay for meals out of pocket for CS and TS and splitting meals.

[jszczur5]

I would have preferred that they change the plan to an appetizer or a dessert. That way, we could share 2 appetizers and then split 2 desserts, which would work out just fine.
As for the tip being removed from the plan, I think you will find a lot of servers finding a $5 bill left on the table and that's it. I would never leave a $20 tip at any restaurant, let alone one where I had already pre-paid for the food and spent 45 minutes long distance making ADR's just for the privilege of eating at a certain restaurant, at a time that was probably not my first choice. Sorry.
Since we have started using the DDP, we hardly carry any cash with us at all. In the past, I would be hard pressed to even find $5 in my pocket on an average day.

[magicman]

Could it be that Disney's DDP money saving (expense reduction) effort could be so they can continue offering the free dining plan during off-seasons, and it won't cost the company as much????

- Just a thought.

[lockedoutlogic]

1) There is disagreement as to WHY the change was made.
2) The union was against it, because of taxes on tips.
3) Many wait-staff make over $80,000, and the taxes got higher.
4) A server's life/pay at WDW is not as bad as many think.

5) What seems to have missed here is the price increase.
6) The changes amount to a minimum 25&#37; increase.
7) For 2 TS restaurants, the increase is about 35%.
8) But, the public will never recognize this.
9) More people will lose money on buying the DDP.
10) Oh, well, the gullibility of the public . . . . . .

NOTE: Unless it has been overlooked, the Deluxe DDP Plan is the seldom purchased Premium Plan, with just a slight change. Rename an old package/product and sell it as new.

Poetry from the Scrapper...so I'm just going to mirror his points with my own takes...

Above: Haiku...below: badly thought out Shakespearian Sonnet:secret:

1.> While there are probably many takes on why the changes were made....let's all be assured that it was mainly motivated by Disney's profits...because that is the primary motivation behind everything. They are greedy...and they have alot of financial success to show for it....
As far as the Unions go...they have no power there...they make press statements to the Sentinel...then basically take what Disney's initial offer was all along. Count on it.
2.> If the union was in fact against it...then they are more shortsighted than I thought possible for a WDW Union...no small feat. The table service servers will see their take homes drop over the next year or two....the sitdowns will no longer be packed for all meal periods as they have been. That was a silly move....
IF they are seriously concerned about hiding tip money...then they should be escorted to the border. No one in this country should stand for those who attempt to cheat the system...we all pay based on our means and assets. As it should be. I would like to also point out that Florida has no state income tax already....which is money in WDW's employees pockets that most of the rest of us do not enjoy.
3.> The WDW waitstaff has always been one of the best jobs at WDW.....to make 80,000 at WDW is a very comfortable wage in florida....the equivalent of 100+ in the northeast, upper midwest, or pacific seaboard....they live like kings at that scale.
I'm not saying they shouldn't be paid well....but their jobs are not so much more difficult than the other CMs that it justifies them making a healthy wage while others struggle at minimum wages to keep the rest of the operation afloat.
4.> A servers life at WDW is absolutely fantastic based on the education and training level and the comparative amount of work that goes into the day. Disney restaurants are more overstaffed than practically any other locations in the US. Do you think that it's easier to work at Chef Mickey's? or a Ruby Tuesday's in Greenville, NC? It is practically a cakewalk in a place where generally...everyone is happy...money is free-flowing...and almost every table (providing a hefty tip)-wants to get out of there as fast as they can. Being a server at a character breakfast is a better job than every managerial job at WDW...that is unquestionable.
It's on the level of a dream....

5.> The price increase is always missed...because with almost every "new" program....all the press releases and printed/ web media is designed to divert the attention of the consumer off the monetary aspects and towards the "magic"
They are the best at it...and the WDW consumer is generally speaking....a pack of lemmings
6.> Concur....the included gratuity was maybe the best part of the plan in the first place....my prediction is that the plan will fall on hard times by 06/08 at the latest.
7.> Again...agree...while the plan kept people away from the Signature dining locations by and large....they make it almost impossible now.
8.> Concur...lemmings...they will realize when their Visa and Bank statements come the following month...if at all.
9.> You had to make it a point to go to the maximum priced 1 credit locations to really "make out" before....with a 20-40% bump it would be all but impossible to really save on the DDP versus out of pocket.
10.> ...uh huh...the cornerstone of WDW's repeat business....one which they have built an impressive foundation upon.

The "new" Deluxe DDP is simply a cross between the old Discovery and Deluxe Magic coupon packages...without all the recreation options that were by and large...not used.
They weren't great sellers...let's see if the fish will bite on a slightly smaller hook on it's second pass by the boat?

The last thing I'll say is that if you truly have an understanding of how the business model works at WDW.....then this was almost inevitable. I thought that maybe the increase in merchandise sales lead to enough of a cost benefit that they would ride the DDP wave...but the beancounters apparently don't agree.
This plan will fall to pieces as they continue to try and squeeze the walls in on it (like shrinking resort rooms).....but at least you might be able to get a spontaneous ressie or two in the near future :thumbsup:

[Ms.Disney]

We will never use the DDP again it is not longer a "deal" for us. It's a shame because it was a good deal and its really nice to know that everything is pre-paid for. I was wondering where other posters heard that the waitstaff makes 80k a year? I happend to know it must not be all of them, I am friends with 3 servers that work at WDW and I know for a fact that they all make less than 45k (all of them work full time). Maybe the ones that make that have been there a long time. :mickey:

[lockedoutlogic]

We will never use the DDP again it is not longer a "deal" for us. It's a shame because it was a good deal and its really nice to know that everything is pre-paid for. I was wondering where other posters heard that the waitstaff makes 80k a year? I happend to know it must not be all of them, I am friends with 3 servers that work at WDW and I know for a fact that they all make less than 45k (all of them work full time). Maybe the ones that make that have been there a long time. :mickey:

That info is a little outdated...they did make around 80K (some of them...in locations with a lot of volume and table turnover...that's right...character breakfasts) until Disney took efforts to limit salaries by reducing the server's table allotments in the mid to late 90's.
That wasn't the only place were they attempted to bring down the average income and specialized functions in their operations...sadly...overall experience and quality of the employees dropped in direct proportion to most of these moves.

The servers were making great cash under DDP...I would assume...the restaurants were booked solid and almost everyone was ordering 3 courses...far different than the way it was before...I wouldn't be surprised if many made 75 or so while DDP has been in effect.
The only downside is that the average dining time might have increased with desserts and appies....but at the end of the day, the rides are still outside of the restaurants...and most don't tend to stop and sniff their cognac when Everest is calling....

[snifflesmcg]

I posted this on another thread that didn't merge to this one and eventually got locked.

I do like the idea of tip included (although I do reward good servers with extra so they get their 20% or more). You are already paying almost $40 for the DDP. This meal is inflated because you are in a tourist trap and this means you must tip according to the meal price. In the real world you can eat at 3 sit down restaurants and pay less than the $40 (ever see $40-a-day on the Food Network?)

My BF and I run about a $50-80 tab for each meal. This means that, great we get a $2 discount but now we must tip $10-$16 and that's just the two of us. That's an extra $70-$112 just for tips. I can't imagine what a large family would do!

I've been to WDW 3 years in a row now. I think it'll be awhile until we go again. Even with a "deal" you are still paying alot. Next vacation is a cruise where you still have to tip but ALL of the food is included for free.

[DizneyRox]

... Next vacation is a cruise where you still have to tip but ALL of the food is included for free.
I laugh when I hear it's "free". Nothing is "free", it's included with the cost of the cruise.

ME is NOT "free" - It's part of your room fee.
Free Dining is NOT "free" - Why are you paying rack rate for your room then?
Furniture delivery is NOT free - It's in the cost of the sofa, chair, dining room set.

Etc, etc, etc...

If anything, the DDP could be considered a loss leader, but it's not. Disney was making money hand over fist on the DDP, even when it was offered for "free". The increase in price is an attempt to just make more money, period. I agree, the servers will be paying the real price this time, I'm actually looking forward to hearing the complaints...

[disneyfan369]

I wouldn't buy it; the loss of the included tip and the appetizer makes it a pretty poor deal now.

[BugeyedMuggy]

For my DH &I we feel this is not worth it to purchase in 2008. Even tho it was too much food it was worth the money. Now it seems like you will break even at best. Next year I'll book a couple of our favorite ADR'S & be able to relax & wing the rest. BIG thumbs down to Disney for this change.

[Marker]

Simply for what it's worth, I just did a little experiment.

I calculated the out of pocket cost of 3 days worth of meals, either mirroring meals from previous trips, or as I would likely order them. The TS choices included Le Cellier, Kona, and 50's Prime time.

First - the out of pocket cost as the DDP is today.... 3 days @ 38.99 = $116.97

Then, same menu except for the appetizer, add the out of pocket tip, and 3 days @ 37.99 and the cost for the 3 days was $130.04

For 3 days a difference of 13.07, and 11% increase, or 4.35 per day.

Also, with the selections ordered, paid strictly out of pocket without the DDP...
Scenario 1 (with appetizer) would have cost me $166.49 ($116 with DDP),
Scenario 2 (w/o appetizer) would have cost me $142.62 ($130 with NEW DDP)

Also, using the new DDP, if I decided to purchase the same appetizer, therefore getting the exact same food, the total out of pocket cost came to $149.91 (166.49 w/o DDP)

Under this limited test, the DDP is still a savings over ordering it myself.

However, without the DDP, I probably wouldn't order BOTH appetizer and dessert with each TS meal, and I probably wouldn't eat as many TS meals.

[LibertyTreeGal]

I was already ready to ditch the dining plan because of the abysmal choices for kids, and now I see absolutely no reason whatsoever to use it.

Now when we do have a TS, my kids can just split an adult meal, like we do when we normally eat out.

I believe this is a way to do away with the regular dining plan actually.

[DisneyLuvnNooks]

No, we won't purchase the plan now that the tip and appetizer are gone. It used to seem magical, all inclusive, you could sample many things, and not have to worry about any cash for tips. Now you need to plan for tips in your purchase, and you lose an appetizer, and basically the price hasn't changed. I don't call $1.00 discount enough of a change to matter. So, if the servers in the union were the ones who wanted this, I think a lot more people will be paying out of pocked, eating more counter service meals, and maybe even offsite more too. They are not going to get what they thought, more take home pay in tips. It looks like this is going to trickel all the way down to not only each additional family, but also the travel agents, and as well the servers and all the people behind the scene. At least with everything included and even the free dining, the restaraunts were probably packed, or a lot busier than they will most likely be in 2008 and beyond. We also like the idea of a choice between appetizer and dessert. Being diabetic, I can never plan for dessert......

[disneycouple2004]

We love the DDP, and the changes are fine with us..we will continue to use it, and maybe now the CM's will for sure get what they deserve..:thumbsup:

[locodemickey]

If one is not able to leave at least a 15% tip then one should not eat at the sit-down restaurants. That is the customary payment for service in the U.S.

[Tygger7]

Can you imagine the people who will leave a subpar tip or none at all. What about the family of 8 who has saved and saved and doesn't really have the money for tips and chooses to spend that hard earned money on souveniers. I think the waiters and waitresses or whomever has pushed this issue has cut their own throat. :mickey:

My thoughts exactly. At least with the old plan, it appeared that the servers were getting a guaranteed 18% tip. I don't understand them being upset if it was showing up on their W2's...am I wrong, but don't you have to report your tips anyway?? If they want to "lie" about their tips, I don't think it's worth it...I don't think any server will average 18% in tips now...my guess is, they'll be doing good to average 10%. And as far as the "survey", saying guests wanted tips excluded...who did they survey?? I know I was never asked!

Overall, I'm not thrilled with the changes and am seriously considering whether or not to do the dining plan again. The other options are way too expensive, and as others have said, you'd get nothing done but run from restaurant to restaurant. :sick:

[Marker]

Can you imagine the people who will leave a subpar tip or none at all. What about the family of 8 who has saved and saved and doesn't really have the money for tips and chooses to spend that hard earned money on souveniers. I think the waiters and waitresses or whomever has pushed this issue has cut their own throat.

I'd say that leaving a subpar tip or none at all speaks more for to the character of the customers than the DDP.

Whether it is included in the package, or paid out of pocket, it is still a part of the meal expense just as much as the appetizer and dessert are.

The DDP is not an entitlement, it's a choice. If it works for you, then buy it. If it doesn't work for you, don't buy it. If you can't afford the tip, then you can't afford the meal. There is not a thing wrong with the counter service and food court food if that works better for you, and in the case of younger children, it may be the better choice anyway.

For what it's worth, most members of my family felt the down side of the current DDP was TOO MUCH FOOD, and I don't think they are the only one's feeling that way. So, from their standpoint, instead of leaving the plan as is, and most likely raising the prices, they offered less food at basically the same price.
And instead of the automatic 18&#37; tip, that many people didn't like, felt it caused diminished service, and was unfair to the servers, they now allow customers to determine their own tip level.

Some could say they were actually responding to customer demand.

But whatever, why take it so personally. The rules changed, they are what they are. Either way, it's still a CHOICE. If it suits you, use it. If it doesn't suit you, don't.

If you don't like it, why not create your own dining plan. Instead of paying Disney your $38.99 per day, per person, put it into a separate account and make your own dining plan. If the DDP does not benefit or accomodate your family's needs or style of eating, then maybe this would. It would still be "pre-paid" prior to the trip, but instead off paying it to Disney, it's paid to yourself. And, any unused meal money would still be in your bank rather than Disney's.

But why take it as personal attack or punishment or something. It's a business decision, no more, no less.

[Stickey]

The real issue here is whether, or not, the modifications to the DDP make it a value to an individual planning a trip to WDW in 2008. If yes, add the DDP to your package. If no, then do not purchase the DDP.

Some of the comments in previous posts are disturbing. It is illogical to attempt to punish Disney by leaving an insufficient tip(less than 15%). :down: Likewise, if the ability to leave a proper tip does not fit one's budget, then the individual should decline to add the DDP and should instead plan a combination of snacks, CS, and TS that fits the budget.

The DDP, in its current state, may have been too successful. The capacity and staffing requirements may be insufficient to sustain this level of demand. These changes will reduce demand, ADR's will be somewhat easier to obtain, and servers will take a hit as lower TS bills and a number of no/low tippers impact their income.

[LibertyTreeGal]

Some of the comments in previous posts are disturbing. It is illogical to attempt to punish Disney by leaving an insufficient tip(less than 15%). :down: Likewise, if the ability to leave a proper tip does not fit one's budget, then the individual should decline to add the DDP and should instead plan a combination of snacks, CS, and TS that fits the budget.



I agree -- I can't imagine stiffing the servers so that I could go home with a bunch of souveniers..... these people have to make a living! I just could never justify a decision like that.

[SignguyTom]

...And instead of the automatic 18% tip, that many people didn't like, felt it caused diminished service, and was unfair to the servers, they now allow customers to determine their own tip level...



BUT>>> They automatically add 18% to parties of 6 or more. I have never seen a gratuity added automatically for parties of less than 8. I have no problem leaving an appropriate tip based on the service I receive. It just needs to be my decision and there will be a discussion if my service is poor and I am "required" to leave 18%...

[jedigrrrl]

I am SUPER happy about Everything that is happening with the DDP right now.:thedolls:

Maybe things can get back to normal.

[DizneyRox]

BUT>>> They automatically add 18% to parties of 6 or more. I have never seen a gratuity added automatically for parties of less than 8. I have no problem leaving an appropriate tip based on the service I receive. It just needs to be my decision and there will be a discussion if my service is poor and I am "required" to leave 18%...
Exactly... I am usually a big tipper, BUT I control the tip and therefore the service. Once you automatically add in a tip, I feel service does suffer.

So, I'm not mad at the fact that they removed the tip from the DDP, but that they didn't adjust the price accordingly. I think that's the issue. Value of the plan has gone down, not that I ever thought it was much of a value to begin with.

[Marker]

BUT>>> They automatically add 18&#37; to parties of 6 or more. I have never seen a gratuity added automatically for parties of less than 8. I have no problem leaving an appropriate tip based on the service I receive. It just needs to be my decision and there will be a discussion if my service is poor and I am "required" to leave 18%...

The automatic 18% tip for large parties is industry standard, and has nothing to do with WDW or the DDP.

My previous comment about the automatic 18% tip was referring to the tip that was included as part of the current DDP. Going forward with the new DDP, the tip is not included and patrons will have to tip on their own. Which sounds like what you'd prefer anyway.

[faberj]

Hi All,
I am not sure what to do. When I started planning this trip I was planning on doing the 2007 version of the dining plan and paying OOP for a few char. breakfasts. Now I am not sure what to do...
1. Do the basic dining plan and pay OOP for the char breakfasts and TIPS.
2. Do the deluxe plan and budget for the tips on that plan
or
3. Pay OOP for everything

My only fear with #3 is that Disney is going to hike up the menu prices to almost force you into some kind of dining package.

When we honeymooned in WDW in 2002, we had the silver plan (2 wish per day thing) that could be used on all kinds of things, not just meals. I think it was $67.00 per person per day and I think we got out moneies worth as we did la nuba, fultons, Cindy's, hoopdedoo, poly dinner show and much more. Considering our trip next year is over 6 years later the deluxe dining plan doesn't look too bad except for having to do the tips seperate.
My only other issues with the plans are what happened to all of the DTD restaurants and all of the snack options??? I wanted to be able to snack my way around Epcot, but it looks like I will not be able to do that with these new plans. Please share on what you think we should do.

I will be DH and Myself. Some days we do two sit downs but one of them is an early char. breakfast and the other would be a dinner.

Thanks!

[dyin tago]

my wife,19 yr old son and myself went last sept with free dining and wife and I are returning this sept for 14 nights.

It`s too bad that disney is no longer going to include the tip in the plan but no longer including the appetizer does not surprise me at all. everyone gets the appetizer whether they are hungry enough or not because it`s included and many people have a nibble or 2 and the rest goes in the garbage. we saw a lot of waste last trip and it is a shame to throw food away.

[DarbyB]

Ok, as far as the plan goes I think we can all agree that at most Table Service meals there is a lot of food. So in Disney’s mind the removal of something to, in their words make it less expensive seemed to make some sense. I was told that it went from $38.99 to $37.99, to make it more cost effective for the diner, then the CM went on to say that as a result of this they would be removing the appetizer option from the TS meals and also requiring you the diner to pay for the gratuity. Although, I have always believed that having the gratuity included causes some servers to be less gracious to you as an individual diner, I think that the removal of the gratuity, at least I believe serves a purpose; to make the servers be more accountable for the treatment of customers and hopefully as a result you will see the service change for the better.

Of course, as with anything that is changing there will be those people who may choose to not leave a tip for the server, thus we may see service take a turn for the worse if you have the DDP. In return this will ultimately affect us all, when you tell the servers you have DDP they will begin to wonder if you are good for a tip. I believe in tipping according to service and upon a few occasions at WDW, there were times that the staff exceeded our expectations and we chose to leave additional gratuity for our server.

We have enjoyed the DDP option as a way to bank money and to insure that we will have good meals without really having to think too hard about it once we are on site. We like the inclusive feel of it, but being planners we like to know that all we have to do is be at our chosen TS restaurant at our reservation time.

Perhaps a different solution to this would have been to allow the diner to choose whether they would like to have an appetizer or a dessert at TS venues. Then add on an additional snack per person so you could have say a drink and popcorn, making it more of a snack break.

After working out the numbers and adding in what would be the tip, we have found that it really is close. Is the amount worth being tied to the plan?

I agree with Marker and think that Banking our allotted food funds and adding it to the room may be the way to go. This is also making us rethink renting a car to take offsite for meals and snacks.

I would like to believe that Disney might change their minds over the next few months as more people choose to make other arrangements and perhaps choose to go offsite.
I think losing that guaranteed money that they were getting up front will begin to decline as more people choose to go another way, “as a bird in the hand is better than two in the bush!”

As a side note, If I was at WDW during free dining you can guarantee that I would be leaving a tip for my server. I would feel that I was already getting such a bargain that I would want to reciprocate.

[PirateLover]

However, without the DDP, I probably wouldn't order BOTH appetizer and dessert with each TS meal, and I probably wouldn't eat as many TS meals.
Exactly! Before the DDP, we never really ate at TS restaurants. But given the chance to try out all of these new places and foods, we just couldn't pass it over. Did we always eat every last bit of our appetizer and dessert? Nope. Things went to waste sometimes. And guess what? We've found that we really like the buffets/family style meals the best anyway, which are generally cheaper, and w/out the dining plan at the nicer places, we would probably only get entrees and split a desert if we even got one. So I'm happy that we had the chance to go twice on the old plan, but with the new plan it just doesn't seem right for us anymore.

[jszczur5]

If one is not able to leave at least a 15% tip then one should not eat at the sit-down restaurants. That is the customary payment for service in the U.S.

Wow, I must be cheap, because I would never leave a $20 for our family of four for an overly inflated priced meal that is served and consumed in less than an hour.
As for those who suggest that if you can't afford the tip then you can't afford the restaurant - that is harsh. Some families scrimp and save all year for this magical experience. For many of us, it's our one and only vacation for the entire year.
I know that neither my husband or I make $75k a year, and we are both college/university educated.
I never minded the 18% tip when it was included in the DDP, but I sure won't be paying any server 18% OOP.
I think the change is for the better - to Disney's bottom line only. I will not pay for DDP in the future, which as others have pointed out, is my option. This also means that I will be eating just 2 or 3 meals at a TS, and visiting Olive Garden and Outback a few times.

[Clotho]

Wow, I must be cheap, because I would never leave a $20 for our family of four for an overly inflated priced meal that is served and consumed in less than an hour.
As for those who suggest that if you can't afford the tip then you can't afford the restaurant - that is harsh. Some families scrimp and save all year for this magical experience. For many of us, it's our one and only vacation for the entire year.


Sorry, but that is incredibly selfish and shortsighted. When I first worked in restaurants, I didn't make enough to take any vacation like the one you and your family are taking, and yet you would stiff the server on the tip just so you can afford to vacation the way you want? What makes NO sense to me.

The tip is part of the dining cost in this country. If you tried to order all that food and at the end said, "I can only pay for one entree. Come on , restaurant manager, have a heart! My family saved all year for this experience, I shouldn't be expected to pay for the WHOLE MEAL!" Ridiculous! And yet you use it as an excuse to rob the servers of their INCOME.

Yes, income. Tips are not above and beyond a living wage in many states. It is an expected rate of income. They are paid under minimum wage in Florida, and are expected to make the rest up in tips. You are robbing the servers of their income when you decide tipping isn't convenient for you and your "budget". PLAN TO TIP 15% OR MORE ON EACH MEAL. Budget it in. I am frankly a bit appalled at this selfish and limited persepctive... Sorry, but I am. :(

As for tipping on an "overinflated price"--you agreed to pay that price. And again, in this country, you should expect to tip on it. If you can't afford the meal plus tip, which is the complete cost of your night out, go somewhere else.

*shaking head in surprise*

[HOLITRIN]

We are going to the World next year and looking at the dining plans, we tried to decide which would be worth the money Basic or Deluxe. We would love to take advantage of the dinner shows (normally not in the budget) and some of the signature dining (also normally not in the budget) - here is what I’ve tentatively come up with. In the course of deciding if the Deluxe Dining package would be worth $70 per person per day, I took a look at some the options.

Knowing that 3 meals a day might be too much food for us and many other people, I looked into utilizing the signature dining options and dinner shows. Here is my wish list for our next trip.

Hoop-de-do review - $55/person
Spirit of Aloha show - $55/person
Flying Fish - Appetizer $12 -13/person
Entree $18 - 29/person
Dessert $7 - 8/person
Yachtsman's Club - Appetizer $8 - 13/person
Entree $21 - 42/person
Dessert $6 - 11/person
Artists Point - Similar pricing to Yachtsman

Combine these with lunches at places like Grand Floridian Cafe, Sci-Fi Diner or Primetime
cafe for example.

Use a snack credit for a little something for breakfast (ie. cinnimon bun) and this package can pay off very nicely. :D

We always leave something extra anyway if the service is exceptional, so the issue of tipping doesn't affect us.

Note: Tips for dinner shows are included!

Just some food for thought....

[snifflesmcg]

REMEMBER-the meaning of the word TIPS stands for "to insure proper service". If you receive proper service, you should tip accordingly, regardless of "inflated meal prices".

I laugh when I hear it's "free". Nothing is "free", it's included with the cost of the cruise.

ME is NOT "free" - It's part of your room fee.
Free Dining is NOT "free" - Why are you paying rack rate for your room then?
Furniture delivery is NOT free - It's in the cost of the sofa, chair, dining room set.

Etc, etc, etc...

If anything, the DDP could be considered a loss leader, but it's not. Disney was making money hand over fist on the DDP, even when it was offered for "free". The increase in price is an attempt to just make more money, period. I agree, the servers will be paying the real price this time, I'm actually looking forward to hearing the complaints...

I apologize, I misspoke. What I meant was, I'll be going on a cruise that is "all inclusive". You end up spending more money when everything is "ala carte".


Since the tip money would have to come out of our spending money alloted to be $10 a day, and I am not willing to give them all of it......To my husband's dismay :confused:(traditionally a big tipper of 20-25&#37; at meals), and soon the servers as well, we will only be able to tip $6.00 for each table service meal, for 2 adults and 1 child. We scrimp and save all year long just to be able to come down each year. (to pay for the trip and lost wages, since neighter of us get paid time off) Now, not only are we losing the appetizers which helps to feed our 3 yr old with a big appetite (who needs more than just a kids meal), we must also pay the tip. You lose $10 worth of food, plus the tip, and they lower the package price by $1.00? So easy to cover a huge price increase and their profit margin, while making the families struggling to come down struggle even more..... :mad: No, we would never purchase the plan now that it has changed. Disney used to make me feel like it was the happiest place on earth. These new changes have made me very sad. The servers are going to be sad, and we will be sad, not being able to afford to tip more. So, so, so sad.......

If you only leave a $6 tip (no matter how much the check is and how great your sevice is) that is punishing your server for the decision that Disney made. I served for 3 1/2 years and they get a salary GREATLY smaller than minimum wage. For me, it was $2.13/hr. They depend on their tips just to live, let alone being able to afford elabrate Disney vacations.


If one is not able to leave at least a 15% tip then one should not eat at the sit-down restaurants. That is the customary payment for service in the U.S.
Completely agreed!! I'm glad you pointed out that it is customary in the US. Alot of other countries pay their servers higher wages and they don't get tips. Alot of people from other countries don't understand that and leave the server nothing.


BUT>>> They automatically add 18% to parties of 6 or more. I have never seen a gratuity added automatically for parties of less than 8. I have no problem leaving an appropriate tip based on the service I receive. It just needs to be my decision and there will be a discussion if my service is poor and I am "required" to leave 18%...
I agree with this point as well. However, depending on the restaurant, I have seen an automatic gratuity included in parties of 6.


Wow, I must be cheap, because I would never leave a $20 for our family of four for an overly inflated priced meal that is served and consumed in less than an hour.
As for those who suggest that if you can't afford the tip then you can't afford the restaurant - that is harsh. Some families scrimp and save all year for this magical experience. For many of us, it's our one and only vacation for the entire year.
I know that neither my husband or I make $75k a year, and we are both college/university educated.
I never minded the 18% tip when it was included in the DDP, but I sure won't be paying any server 18% OOP.
I think the change is for the better - to Disney's bottom line only. I will not pay for DDP in the future, which as others have pointed out, is my option. This also means that I will be eating just 2 or 3 meals at a TS, and visiting Olive Garden and Outback a few times.

No, it isn't harsh to expect that you tip your server for service (it is average of 15-20%). Imagine if your husband goes to work and, even though he has slaved away working to the bone, his boss says "Today we are only paying you what we can afford since the price of (whatever he does) has gone up...,.sorry". You should be so lucky that that doesn't happen to him!!

As for those families that "scrimp and save" to go on vacation. Maybe some of those are servers that on occasion get stiffed by people like you.

That "less than 15%" you are going to give them, remember, they have to, not ONLY pay taxes on that but (in MOST places) tip out other staff memeber (ie: bartender, bussers, host, kitchen people) which now their tip has gone down by half.

Just for the record, I tipped OVER on most of my checks last year allowing my server to get the 20% they deserve. It's not easy standing on your feet for 12 hours slaving away and making sure that every cranky, hot parent and child has a "magical day". Maybe I'll start tipping 25% to make up for the others that choose not to reward their server. BTW, I AM one of those people that "scrimp and save" to go on vacation. I drive a car 15 years old and buy everything on sale or with coupons and I still have enough class to TIP according.


I'm FINALLY off my soapbox. Thanks for listening to my rant.:)

[bethsmith]

I agree with HOLITRIN. I did the math and we had several meals planned which were two credits and we were going to pay most of them OOP as well as any TS Breakfasts we had planned.
Now with the Deluxe plan we can do it all on plan and use a snack credit for Breakfast on days we don't have an ADR. And after much calculating and number crunching it works out to about even. Now I'm not saying that either of the dining plan options are saving money any more but we like the idea of having everything taken care of in advance so I can just concentrate on which Mickey Mouse Watch I'm coming home with. If we pay OOP foir everything we would have to pay the Tip anyway so we'll just add it into our daily budget and all will be well.
I do hope, however, that we will be able to place those charges on our room since I don;t carry a lot of cash.
As far as servers not paying income tax on their tips, it's not true. Thier income is estimated at 15% over their table receipts and that amount is automatically removed from their pay to go to the IRS so if you only tip 10% then they are paying taxes on money they didn't even make.
Speaking from experience here.

[LibertyTreeGal]

I'm FINALLY off my soapbox. Thanks for listening to my rant.:)

You're welcome -- I'm glad you did it. We live in a stingy me-first society where people are more concerned with getting an appetizer or a toy that will soon be broken and/or forgotten than in making sure the person who gives us personal service can afford to take their kid to the doctor when they get sick.

[faberj]

I waitress part time (in addition to my full time jub) and servers really do depend on thier tips as income. I live and work in WI and I make $3.50 an hour (I have been waitressing at the same place since high school, if I just started I would be making $2.30 an hour). Anyway, even when I give my best service to ALL my customers I still get stiffed! :mad: The worst offenders are the large groups with the big checks (we do not automatically add the tip to large groups, and the customers know this too). I have gotten stiffed to getting as little as 10% off of those. It burns me even more that I have to claim 12% percent of all my sales to the government!! :mad: I myself always tip at least 15% if not more. I know that some of the things that happen are not the servers fault (ie meal delays, food not how you wanted it, slower service if it is busy, etc). Anyway I know how it feels and this is just my 2 cents.

[January-2007]

**Moderator Note**


This thread is for sharing opinions on the changes for the 2008 Dining Plan changes only.




:goodbad: Seems like this thread is getting a little off topic....

[luvdiznee]

Like someone else had said it would have been nice if they gave you a choice of an appetizer or a desert. Then I may consider it. That way if there were 2 of you one could get the appy and the other the desert...maybe thats why there was no choice. :secret:Oh well. I can dream, can't I. :cloud9:

[SignguyTom]

The automatic 18% tip for large parties is industry standard, and has nothing to do with WDW or the DDP.

My previous comment about the automatic 18% tip was referring to the tip that was included as part of the current DDP. Going forward with the new DDP, the tip is not included and patrons will have to tip on their own. Which sounds like what you'd prefer anyway.

I realize adding a tip to large parties is an industry standard. My experience has been that a "large party" was 8 or more.

Actually, I am disappointed that Disney removed the tip from the dining plan. I always left an additional tip to cover things not covered on the plan (beer, etc..) during our trip in May '06. With the appetizer being removed as well as the tip, it amounts to about a 40% increase in price, plus it adds hassle. By this I mean I now have to figure how much of the tip is my responsibility and how much is my sister's during our TS meals next May (party of 6, plus 1 child). Guess I better take a calculator. :( I would have much rather seen a $10-15 price increase and keep the system the same. Maybe we will come up with our own system that will make it seem cool again.

Now, ignoring the debate over whether it is still cost-effective or not, my take is that it now just simply isn't as much fun. It used to be so great to go eat dinner, sign the slip, toss a couple bucks tip to cover a couple drinks and be on our way. Now we will need an accounting program to figure who ordered what appetizer, how much tip is owed by whom, etc... The magic is simply gone from this plan.

[irish1967]

My response to the 2008 Dining Plan changes was to send my dad (who always vacations with us) an e-mail with links to the plan details and the comment...

"We'll need to do some number crunching to determine if we want to do the Dining Plan when we go to WDW next summer."

Cost vs benefit is the bottom line from my point of view. Do the benefits (monetary and not) outweigh the cost (monetary and not?) Even during Free Dining, the Dining Plan may not be the best option for someone when the cost of the room at rack rates and typical eating habits are taken into account.

There are ALOT of food options available at WDW, the Dining Plan is only one of those options. Each group needs to find the appropriate options for themselves.

[DizneyRox]

I would have much rather seen a $10-15 price increase and keep the system the same.
That will be next year!

[SignguyTom]

That will be next year!

:funny: Yeah, probably.... :rotfl:

[Clotho]

An aside:
While it is commonly believed that "tip" is an acronym for "to insure promptness", it is not true:

http://www.snopes.com/language/acronyms/tip.asp


"The word originates from the 16th century verb tip, which meant "to give unexpectedly", and was derived from the German word tippen, meaning "to tap." The modern German version would instead be Trinkgeld, literally meaning "Drink Gold", or "Money to Drink"[2][3] Modern German would instead be for "tap", Hahn, "to tap", Klopfen.
...
The word "tip" is often inaccurately claimed to be an acronym for terms such as "to insure prompt service", "to insure proper service", "to improve performance", and "to insure promptness". However, this etymology contradicts the Oxford English Dictionary[5] and is probably an example of a backronym ("a phrase that is constructed "after the fact" from a previously existing word or abbreviation")"

As for the comment about about the new system not being "as fun", I agree! The current plan essentially made WDW an all-inclusive resort kind of experience! When I go to an all-inclusive, I don't carry money around with me. I have cash to tip when I arrive and when I leave, for those handling my bags and cleaning my room. But being free of having to budget things out beyond that is an amazingly freeing experience. And the DDP was a taste of that for so many vacationers! And now they are taking that away.

And selfishly, I am a "salty" person, not a "sweet" person. So I concur that I would prefer the option between an appetizer OR a dessert. I am totally pushing for that! Think about diabetics or dieters who can't enjoy a big sweet dessert and would far prefer an appetizer salad or something! The versatility would go a long way in making it a better experience for sampling, as well--one in the party gets an appetizer, the other a dessert, nobody has too much food, but you get to sample a wider variety of what the restaurant has to offer. PERFECT! :)

RE: Tipping 18%
I heard it posted someplace that the reason the labor union was against the 18% tip included was because that was a VERY VERY misleading assertion. The servers were not in fact getting 18% on the bill total. And the tip policies were set by the individual restaurants, so it wasn't even consistent. One restaurant was rumored to give a flat $5 tip on ALL tables, regardless of what size the party or what was ordered. I have a hard time imagining it, but it's possible. The most the servers made, it was reported, was 18% on what the actual cost of the meal was, between the restaurant and Disney Corp. Meaning a $50 meal really only costs $10 to the Disney to create, and that is what the servers were being tipped on. This I can believe.

These are unconfirmed rumors, but it would make a lot of sense as to why the "servers" (labor union representing them anyway) would have wanted to change the system. They were in no way actually getting 18% off of every bill total as is implied. I wish we knew someone who worked in the Disney restaurants who could talk about this!

Additionally, it is interesting to me that people have complained all this time about the tip being included in the DDP somehow brought service expectations down and how awful that was. But now they are separating out the tip so you can give what you think is deserved and people are complaining about that! You can't have it both ways. Hopefully those who complained about the service will see it improve. Those who want to tip more or less will have control over it. But it is at the expense of an "all-inclusive experience", which I would personally prefer, but *shrug*

[mdricks]

Cant let this one go by without comment.....

The old business model was take a hit on profits and make it up in volume with a captive audience. The thought being that the perception of value would lead people to spend a little more on the plan and that the loss spread out over time would be offset by the increase in volume profit. Profit margins shrink quite a bit but 10$ profit on one person is not as good as 3$ profit from 4 people.

When I first saw the DDP I was amazed at the perception of value and was very skeptical. I spent a LONG time reviewing options and comparing situations and grudgingly came to the decision that the plan was a good value.

I then used it on a trip and found it was not only a good value, but was in fact a great value of about 35% savings for my family. And we were constantly not finishing everything we ordered because it was too much food. There was no conceivable short term business goal by Disney to justify it if the average family had the same experience. I constantly wondered how Disney could be making any profit as a result. Even if you totally blew off a few meals and wasted the credits you still came out ahead.

The new business model seems to be a design by which participants will only benefit through maximization of the plan. If you don't use everything to the fullest you will break even at best. Those of us who, for one reason or another, fail to maximize the plan benefits, equal profit margin increases. The focus shifts from how good the consumers deal will be to weather the consumer even gets a deal at all. If you have a high enough percentage of those people, then the number of participants in the plan becomes moot because the plan actually generates profit from unused resources instead of relying on volume.

Don’t get me wrong, the potential for the consumer to realize savings in this plan exists, however, there is a real cost to the consumer should they fail to realize that savings. And the resulting cost is a financial benefit to Disney for providing no service at all. And in a business profit for nothing at all is the best kind.

My guess is that the number of unused credits under the old plan was just to tempting a profit center to pass up. If you could figure out a way to give value to those people who maximize the program, while putting yourself in the position to get big windfalls from the small group that fails to maximize ……. Simply stated Disney will now make free money off of everyone who signs up but doesn’t take it for all its worth. And the small savings held by those that do maximize is still offset by volume and even more importantly by those that do not maximize. And the PR from those people who maximize and receive benefit will drive the program (for a while at least).

I guess people at Disney had the same thoughts I had. Now, for me, its a suckers bet. You absolutely have to plan out your meals to realize any savings. If I had a desire to go to Chef Mickey's, O'Hara's, and LeCellier then I'm with the plan. If I want Liberty Tree, Tony's and Shutters (ick!) then count me out.

My last trip we had an illness during our visit and lost out on 2 TS meals. We still saved a ton of money over standard pricing. Under the new plan, the waste of those 2 TS credits would mean the difference between a deal or taking a loss.

I am not going to lambaste the Disney company for stopping what was, in essence, a free ride. But I will not participate in the crapshoot left in its wake.

[Clotho]

Hrm...I am not sure I understand the logic.
If you don't use all your TS credits, you don't tip on those missed meals, anyway. So you don't lose any more money than you would if the tip were still included.

The loss of appetizer is uncool, but since most people wouldn't order two appetizers and two desserts at any given meal anyway, it was an inflated idea of "value"--sure if you ate that much at your meal, you are saving over what you would have normally spent. But you wouldn't normally have spent that much!

The real test for most people is to tally what they would ideally want to eat at a given restaurant. Not comparing it to what it would cost if you ordered all the items, but what you would order if you were paying out of pocket.

For instance, when I go, we usually share an appetizer, get individual entrees, and one dessert to share. So the DDP numbers were kind of inflated when we crunched the numbers assuming we would eat two appetizers and two desserts.

What it DID do is give us an opportunity to try some items we wouldn't normally have ordered. So for instance, while hubby likes calamari, I am not as big a fan, so we usually get a different appetizer. With the DDP in 2007 we could have gotten both! But we wouldn't do that normally...so part of the value in it for us was that flexibility without having to budget for extra food tallied in.

Am I making any sense?

For us, the new DDP plan would still be a savings. We eat TS meals nearly every night, and we like Good Food. So the price of the plan alone covers the cost of our TS meals, and we essentially get a CS and snack for "free". But for people who don't eat TS's as frequently, it may not make as much sense, old plan or new plan the same...

[GrumpyFan]

I can understand them tweaking and making some changes to it, but, what they're doing here is really going to make us, and I'm sure a lot of others re-evaluate whether or not it's worth the cost. I'm leaning heavily in the NOT direction. I think $37.99 is too much considering they've dropped appetizer and the tip. Under the proposed changes, I might be more inclined to purchase it again if it were around $35.99.

When DW and I have gone and used it by ourselves (just the two of us), often times having an appetizer and entree AND dessert was more food than we could handle. However, what Disney is doing with the plan doesn't make sense.
SUGGESTION: Why not change the plan so the guest can have an appetizer or dessert, but not both. This way, if there was a party of two, one could choose the appetizer, and the other could choose the dessert and they could share.

I will be interested to see how many people actually use it in 2008.

P.S. Epmhasis added just in case any Disney people happen to read this.

[Disneytravels]

Wow I had no idea it would cause such a can of worms when I posted this...lol!
I think I agree with some that it is still a bit of a savings.. they say that its a 32% saving now instead of the 40% saving it was in prior years.
I will also have to plan it out to see the saving each way- w/ddp or w/o ddp.
Disney claims the reason for the change is due to public poll they took, not the union of workers.
Many people felt they were treated differntly when they used the dining plan than those who paid cash for there's- in which I have felt this first hand. We were in a party that half was on the dining plan and the other half was not.. there was a difference. The sad thing is that we always tipped 25% so we were leaving a tip on top of that 18% that was included.
One thing that people are not thinking of - about "hiding" the money in tips is most people are using creditcards/debit cards to still pay for their meal in which is not able to be hidden.. so they get taxed on that...this is the reason we leave 25% because by the time taxes are out they may get 18% full.
I agree we will try to set aside tip money now and if we don't use it all we will have bonus money.
I have bookings for clients for the new year already and have only sold 1 dinng package- I normally sell 98% dining package. So this not only effect Disney servers it affects me as a travel agent too. I can't sell something that doesn't seem like a good deal anymore but I will still try. :mickey: Now its going to be selling it on convience not value.

[SignguyTom]

Hrm...I am not sure I understand the logic.
If you don't use all your TS credits, you don't tip on those missed meals, anyway. So you don't lose any more money than you would if the tip were still included.




Right, but if you've already paid, say, $30 x 5 meals in tips and $20 x 5 in appetizers for a family of 4, then your overall value for your trip goes WAY down.



Since our return from WDW in May '06, I have been a huge proponent of the DDP to everyone I talk to about it - until now. Here's why: I rarely ordered dessert last time, but I really enjoy the appetizers. Offer me a choice between appetizer OR dessert, and I'll sing praises once again.


PS As above, emphasis added in case someone from Disney reads this...

[lockedoutlogic]

It was a good deal....now not so much....

to maximize the value of it...you basically have to go to the highest priced non 2 point TS credit location and order the most expensive entree on the menu...usually a steak.

That's great...but do you want 5-7 nights of Strips?

The point is that you now HAVE to go to the priciest of the cheaper sitdowns and order from right to left...as many...but not all...had already done with DDP.

If you squeeze the life of it....combined with the counter service....then accounting for the increase in tips and extra appetizers.....

Then you still might be ahead.

But that makes it far too much work....i think i might be done with her after November....

Back to DDE and more of a "what do i want"...not a "where is it a good deal" approach.

Not necessarily a bad thing....hopefully the reservations system will slide back towards normalcy also...

But make no mistake...part of the planning process had to be to "train" the customer into booking restaurants each day....an obvious long tern benefit once the people return to out of pocket payments.....

The golden goose had to end up someone's dinner at some point.....at WDW...it always does.....

[Goes4FastPass]

Isn't this what the Disney Company has been doing for years? - Increasing the price while decreasing the product.

I don't mind tipping - I do it every day - but this change is a price increase, plain and simple.

With the present DDP many families stopped to 'calculate' what was the best for them - OOP or DDP. The new plan might have more folks opting to spend less time eating mediocre food and more time enjoying the other things WDW has to offer.

Of couse WDW is also counting all the "I deserve the best - my cards aren't maxxed out yet" people to opt for the premium dining plan. Yikes can people go many days in a row eating 2 TS meals a day?

[Lillabelle00]

I don't believe that it will be a good value to us. If they wanted to drop the appetizer and tip..then they should have dropped the price more than one dollar. I think it should have been dropped by at least $4 or $5. I crunched some numbers, and my family would end up spending at least $100.00 more if we purchase the plan. It is disappointing. I was looking forward to using it. :(

[Crow]

my first use of it was in May and i used it for more than i would normally eat.
i have free dining (well paying rack rate at POP so its not actually free) and i will use the credits where i can wo:ack:
but I dont think i will use it next yr.
but i agree that the option of app or dessert would b ok. or :beer::marg:
i ate at buffets, some CS and mayb 1 or a few TS wo the plan.
so IF i go back next yr i will do so wo the plan.

[thrillme]

I've never been a big fan of DDP. We like the Rainforrest and we go there and it's not on the DDP. I'm rather tired of all the difficulty surrounding ADR's. My DS and I never know exactly WHEN we're going to be hungry or where we're going to be (we're big time hoppers). I'm tired of everything being so booked up due to ADR's. Other than something "special" for a BIG group of 6 or more or a "special" event then it seems like this whole reservation system needs to come down to perhaps 48 hours advance notice.

The DDP was difficult...kids could only eat off of kids menus (which was often limited) so it wasn't uncommon that you'd have to fork out so they could have a better meal. It was often an all or nuthin' deal. Everybody in your room had to have it even if they were on special diets and planned to eat elsewhere. If you didn't use some of your credits because you weren't hungry or you didn't want a snack etc...well that was "wasted".

I'd rather them just come up with a Disney Dining Card that perhaps gives you 10-15% off of any meal at "participating" resturants and snack stands.

And tips...I'll be happy to tip appropriately but I admit to being somewhat less generous at buffets where I get up and get a plate, get my food have to stack a plate or two out of the way or take it to a nearby cart because it's never removed and periodically have to flag a waitress/waiter down to get a refill of water or tea.

I recall in the old days...my Grandfather would put a stack of quarters on the table and he'd tell the waiter/waitress that it was their tip. IF they took too long to refill a drink, bring napkins/condiments etc....he'd take a quarter from the stack. As time went on and they saw that stack getting lower and lower their service picked up quite a bit to save what was left.

[BronxTigger]

I've never done the DDP and don't plan to either.

However, I'm not surprised they have raised the overall cost of the DDP. I expect the restaurant prices to go up also.

The cost of food is going up, especially dairy products. At my local supermarket, you could get 16 slices of Kraft cheese for 1.99. No more...now its 4.89. Same with milk. It was under $3, now it is about $4.50 a gallon.

The DDP does not look like a good deal compared to the current restaurant prices. However, I'll bet the DDP will look like a better deal once they raise the prices at the restaurants.

[DizneyRox]

I've never done the DDP and don't plan to either.

However, I'm not surprised they have raised the overall cost of the DDP. I expect the restaurant prices to go up also.

The cost of food is going up, especially dairy products. At my local supermarket, you could get 16 slices of Kraft cheese for 1.99. No more...now its 4.89. Same with milk. It was under $3, now it is about $4.50 a gallon.

The DDP does not look like a good deal compared to the current restaurant prices. However, I'll bet the DDP will look like a better deal once they raise the prices at the restaurants.
True, I haven't seen anything about the price increases that will happen at the restaurants. It will happen though... It doesn't however change the fact that this is a price increase in itself. Once the restaurant prices hit for the new year we can better debate which is the better deal.

[poeticeclipse]

I'm in the process of figuring out if it would be most effective for my family or not. I just have to make sure that I include everything in my figures. I'll let you all know the results when I am done.

[caseyis8]

I know that this is not going to garner any great responses since most of this thread has been only negativity towards the new dining plan, but here goes. My husband, son, and I are going to be staying at the Boardwalk Inn next year and we are planning on doing the deluxe dining plan. My husband, who is not a huge WDW fan, was the one who decided that that was the way to go since we would have all of our meals and snacks paid for ahead of time. I do not carry cash so I like that we won't really need to on our trip. I also would like to eat at some of the two ticket restaurants like the Hoop Dee Doo Review and maybe the Luau. With having three ts included we can do those and more without having to pay oop. $70 a day for food in disney is not bad, especially since we will be able to eat at ts which we would probably never do. I am glad that some of you will not do the plan when we are there, because that will make more ressies available for me to make. LOL. :cool:

[jszczur5]

Cant let this one go by without comment.....

I am not going to lambaste the Disney company for stopping what was, in essence, a free ride. But I will not participate in the crapshoot left in its wake.

Ditto! Exactly what I would have said, had I put some thought into my original response, rather than firing off a visceral reaction.

[MMouse6937]

I am glad that some of you will not do the plan when we are there, because that will make more ressies available for me to make. LOL. :cool:

That is exactly what I was thinking :D I do the dining plan because it's conveinient and I pay for all of my meals before we even leave for vacation. I don't go to Disney to save money, I go because I love it there. Do I like a good bargain? Sure just as much as the next person, but I still think it's a good "deal". I would like them to change the no appetizer to an appetizer or dessert since I'm not much of a dessert person. I might look into the Deluxe plan next year, haven't decided yet.

[emmingo]

It was bound to happen. There is no question that what we were getting on the DDP was ludicrous...for $40 per day, we were getting a full lunch and a three course dinner. Thats a day of food that would cost one person at least $100. It was often WAY too much food for me to eat, and while it was nice to buy and try, it seemed like we were getting way more for our money than could ever last! Now, it seems to still be a good deal...an entree at a table service restaurant--especially the good ones--run between $15 and $40, plus you still get a drink, etc. Compared to what it would cost if you were buying the meal itself, you're still saving. If you're a foodie, like we are, its still absolutely worth it. On the DDP we can afford to go to a LOT of places we normally wouldn't. If all it costs us to go to Le Cellier as opposed to the food court at the resort is an 18&#37; tip and maybe a shared appetizer or a dessert, it will still be worth it to us.

It has always been an option. Its not something that we as guests are entitled to. Its a deal that they extend to get you to eat at more TS restaurants, spread the word, and continue to go back. Its terrible, yes, that its going to be less on the basic plan than it was before, but thats kind of the point of getting a package.

[princessgirls]

I think that the changes STINK:thedolls:!!

We loved the "all-inclusive" feeling of the DDP.

Wouldn't it be better to let the customer decide if they are in the mood for either an appetizer or dessert? You get a choice??

I don't think that I would purchase this in the future, and I was a big fan of the DDP.

Just my two cents worth.
Julie:mickey:

[Tink&Goofy]

Disney has missed the boat on this one. Do they honestly think that no one would notice they were paying MUCH more for less?
We have only used the DDP once, and LOVED it - although it was too much food. Although it was nice to have so many choices, the most enjoyable part of the plan was having everything included - it was a huge convenience factor that were willing to pay for. I have no problem with the elimination of the appetizer - but would prefer to be able to choose between appetizer and dessert. We would Never be able to eat both anyway. But the elimination of the gratuity results in a large increase in the price - to the point where it may not be worth it, and the hassle of paying for this separately at each TS. I honestly think the servers are in for a rude awakening on this one. I believe I tip very fairly - however, that being said, the tip is still something that is "earned". Great service? Great Tip! Lousy service? Lousy tip! With the old DDP, they were guaranteed a decent tip, regardless of the service provided. Some may make more money under the new plan, but I would expect that most will not.

I will really have to analyze where we want to dine, and determine if it is worth our while to use the DDP again.

[luvdiznee]

I am glad that some of you will not do the plan when we are there, because that will make more ressies available for me to make. LOL. :cool:

I know for us, if we don't choose to do the DP plan next trip, we will STILL do TS's. So we will still have to make ressies. :mickey:

[wildernesslady]

Here's another thought as to how Disney could have changed the plan. On our last trip, we had 2 adults and 1 child. One of our ts meals was $100.00. The 18% tip would have been $18.00 dollars. If that was divided out and added to our plan cost, I don't think I would have thought twice about getting the plan again. They could add $4.00 to childs and $7.00 per adult for example. I feel getting the plan for $46.00 per adult would still seem like a good deal. There would be no need to carry extra cash and it would feel more inclusive. As for the appetizer, I would love to have the choice between that and a dessert. Just some added imput. Thanks for reading.

[jonsmom]

What about giving us the option of choosing how many TS's we we would like. Say, maybe in a 7 day stay, choosing three TS meals and the rest all CS meals. That way you dont have to have a TS every day if you choose not too and would rather spend your time doing fun stuff, instead of spending lots of time in a restaurant.

Just my two cents!

[Clotho]

What about giving us the option of choosing how many TS's we we would like. Say, maybe in a 7 day stay, choosing three TS meals and the rest all CS meals. That way you dont have to have a TS every day if you choose not too and would rather spend your time doing fun stuff, instead of spending lots of time in a restaurant.

Just my two cents!

Because part of the point of the DDP is to get more butts in the seats of their TS restaurants.

But without the price changing, you have this option now. You can use any TS credit toward a CS meal. You are still likely to get your money's worth this way if you do this a few times in your trip, depending on what you like to eat.

[LibertyTreeGal]

Well, my dh finally weighed in on it this morning -- he said --

"Good! Now we won't have to feed the boys those awful kids meals anymore!"

Can't argue with that logic :thumbsup:

[ariel03]

I don't mind this new dining plan as long as I can still get it for free every Sept.
like I have been getting. :eat:

[DestinationWDW]

We just found out this "rumor" was true on our trip from a DVC CM this week. We were there for 8 days......Family of 5 - came home with 5 snack credits and 9 counter service credits - UNUSED! (on free dining plan) Don't know if it was the heat, the little guy is also a very picky eater as well. DH and I decided DP doesn't really pan out for us because kids don't want to eat that much and we can't really sit and enjoy and way too full to eat that much anyway!!!

[jonsmom]

Because part of the point of the DDP is to get more butts in the seats of their TS restaurants.

But without the price changing, you have this option now. You can use any TS credit toward a CS meal. You are still likely to get your money's worth this way if you do this a few times in your trip, depending on what you like to eat.

You mean you can use TS meals towards CS meals. I have never heard of that.

[MaizeNBrew]

Although I haven't done the hard math on it, it obviously isn't as good as a dea. It seems to be about a 20% increase in "price" when you factor out tips and appetizer.

We are not going in 2008, but will be going in 2009. I guess the one change I would like to see is that you could either order an appetizer OR a dessert with your TS. That would actually be completely fine in most situations with me.

I very rarely encountered the bad service with the assured tip money, but we also ate at mostly signature restaurants where the waiters have been around for quite a while and are top notch. But I understand the concern, and I'm not too dissappointed. I'm sure other's, like myself, give more than the 15-18% tip for *excellent* service and with it added in, so I while it probably will be worse for some servers, I don't think it will be quite the nightmare scenario.

Bummed about the new change, but not upset.

[Clotho]

You mean you can use TS meals towards CS meals. I have never heard of that.

Yes, you can use any higher credit toward a lower credit option. So you can use a TS for a CS, and a CS for a snack. Of course you want to maximize value and do this as little as possible, but for instance, int he wake of the free DDP and people not being able to get ADR's for all their TS credits, getting a CS would be a good option.

[jonsmom]

We are not going in 2008, but we may in 2009, I will certainly keep that in mind.

Eating TS every day takes up alot of time.

[The Bookseller]

I look at the 2008 DDP and I feel robbed in a way.

First thing was the simplicity of use. I had only to walk in at any restaurant and I knew I only had to say "Dining Plan!" and EVERYTHING was included. Now, not only I would have to pay for the DDP but I would have to pay AGAIN for the tips. in the design, I find it self-defeating. Why pay for an "All Included" offer if you are required to pay more? My heart goes to the staff who will have to deal with guests that wouldn't leave tips because they believe it's included.

Then, there's the price of it. As far as see it, I lose 20-25% of the value of the DDP right now. In a case of corporate honesty, I would like to see the price of the DDP dropping my the same amount of the lost value. I wouldn't oppose a raise of the price neither. What I don't like is the way the Mouse sweep this raise under the rug instead of showing it to the public.

I also believe that the new DDP is a lost of value for the CS as well. If you don't take your TS credit, you can use it to buy 2 CS, right? How many CS out there cost more than 10$ apiece? If we add the 4$ snack, it is hard to break even with the cost of the DDP. There's also the problem of the bottleneck a rush to the CS will cause.

The 2008 DDP doesn't look Kosher for me right now. I will have to crush numbers and read more about it to make a valid choice for the year 2008.

[Disneytravels]

Well, my dh finally weighed in on it this morning -- he said --

"Good! Now we won't have to feed the boys those awful kids meals anymore!"

Can't argue with that logic :thumbsup:

Just a note for the furture- If you children don't like what is on the 3-9 menu you can tell the CM that and you can kid size a adult menu item.
:thumbsup:

[Clotho]

I also believe that the new DDP is a lost of value for the CS as well. If you don't take your

Actually, no. You can use your TS for a CS, yes, but it doesn't translate into two. It's one-for-one. You can also use a CS for a snack, but not two snacks...just one snack.

[The Bookseller]

Looks like I was wrong on that one. Thanks for pointing it out.

[magicman]

Just a note for the furture- If you children don't like what is on the 3-9 menu you can tell the CM that and you can kid size a adult menu item.
:thumbsup:

Wow! Are you sure? If so, this is a GREAT tip! Thanks.

[Figment!]

... You can use your TS for a CS, yes, but it doesn't translate into two. It's one-for-one. You can also use a CS for a snack, but not two snacks...just one snack.While this may work sometimes, it is not guaranteed. The Dining Plan Guidelines do not contain any standard procedure for "trading down" credits.

Some Guests have reported success of talking to Guest Service at their hotel near the end of their trip and having unused credits transfered down on a one to one basis--but again the ability to do so is not guaranteed.



Just a note for the furture- If you children don't like what is on the 3-9 menu you can tell the CM that and you can kid size a adult menu item.Wow! Are you sure? If so, this is a GREAT tip! Thanks.Some Table Service locations do offer this, others do not.

It is up to individual locations what they put on their Children's menu and it may vary from seating to seating depending on availability, so just be sure to check with your server when ordering.

[grumpycajun]

What!!!??? No appetizer? A whole dollar decrease? No Gratuity included? Frankly, I think it's pathetic and I am very dissapointed. Scratch that. Make it extremely annoyed. I'd have no problem with a reasonable increase in price to keep it the way it was, but these changes ruin the whole spirit of the thing. We've always found a Disneyworld vacation to be a good value with the DDP included, but now, I don't think so. I'm sure there are plenty of families that can afford to blow tons of money on food, but ours isn't one of them. It's been a special treat to be able to enjoy great meals, INCLUDING appetizers and desserts, without having to worry about it. I look forward to that as much as I do the parks. Dining is a big part of the whole event. I wonder which hairbrained executive came up with this gem. For the first time in years we will be considering a different vacation for 2008 and that really stinks. Yep, I'm that aggravated.

[Clotho]

While this may work sometimes, it is not guaranteed. The Dining Plan Guidelines do not contain any standard procedure for "trading down" credits.


Sorry, didn't mean to mislead. I had heard only that people had done this. Never heard anyone who tried and failed, so it was my assumption. Well...we know what assumin' does. ;)

[*BJTDancer2*]

I purchased the deleux plan for our upcoming January trip. We have scheduled character breakfasts and nice table service for dinner. Plus the 2 snacks and a quick service lunch it pays for us. Plus it keeps us on a budget to not go overboard on extra stuff.

[bigbabyblues]

I only made it through the posts on page 1, but it looks like we're in the minority.....we're going to get the deluxe ddp for our 2008 trip. It's not a cost savings, but it adds up to what our food budget would be if we were paying oop (except the tip) and we'll have flexibility to do ts or cs, instead of being limited to one ts per day.

[J.T.Toad]

No
This will be my last year on the DDP
Just Curious Michael Eisner isn't back is he?
Toadie

[mjaclyn]

I'm also very disappointed in the changes. It's SO irritating that they took out the appetizer and gratuity!!! I would gladly pay the extra $1 for it!

[Mousefever]

We are going to use the DP for one last time in January, only because my husband loves it (even without the appetizer and tip) and my son is still 9. Once my son turns 10 there is no way we will be purchasing the DP. We could never come close to breaking even when all he wants to eat are hotdogs, cheeseburgers, and PB&Js.


:dory:

[Clotho]

Just got back and wanted to throw out a little related piece of info I saw while I was there.

On the TV at the Poly, there was the usual resort television info, including a constantly scrolling list of info about resort times, events, points of interest, etc. One thing caught my eye. It said that if you now had the option of trading in a TS credit for a "Quick Service" meal (CS to us), and you would also receive either an additional TWO snack credits -OR- a lanyard with trading pins.

I think the overbooking on the free DDP had caused a lot of angry people who had not made adequate ADR's, and were being forced to use their TS at CS locations. This was a way to appease them. I wonder if it worked... It was just a blip on the screen, and the few people I ended up chatting with on this trip about the DDP didn't seem to know about this. So it wasn't widely advertised by any stretch. I also wonder if this is an ongoing offer, or if it was just related to the free DDP promotion going on now causing extra crowds.

[GoinGoofyPlanninThisTrip]

I also wonder if this is an ongoing offer, or if it was just related to the free DDP promotion going on now causing extra crowds.
I believe they started this last Fall during the free dining period along with doing a bunch of quickly added dining locations.

[Goes4FastPass]

... the option of trading in a TS credit for a "Quick Service" meal (CS to us), and you would also receive either an additional TWO snack credits -OR- a lanyard with trading pins...Yep, they offerd this last year to people when they couldn't meet the TS demand caused by the included Dining Promotion.

There isn't enough pixie dust in Neverland to make this seem like a good deal.

[Samtastic]

I did the number crunching, I still save about 15_20%. I go to disney for disney, not for value. Plus i'm a foodie and I enjoy the TS and I don't travel with kids. Now I think the Deluxe DDP is a better deal, but I can't see eating that much food. Maybe if it was a special occasion and Ii'd eat at the 2 dining credit places, but I enjoy other TS and Cs locations.

If I still save money, it's worth it. Plus I'm an individual who enjoys the planning. and doing math...

[Spaceship Tigger]

Whenever I did the math for our upcoming trip, I found that using any halfway decent discount (AAA, AP, PIN) was at least a little better than paying for the DDP. And this was calculated even by predicting the appetizers, entrees, and desserts we were likely to get while on the DDP and getting those same items if we were off the DDP. We are only using the DDP next week because it is free. With the changes to the plan after this trip it is unlikely we will ever use it again.

And unlike some people, I don't see the convenience of having meals pre-paid anyway. With added things to think about like signature dining, breakfasts, kids meals, and so forth, I think it can be more compilcated than just paying out of pocket.

[DizneyRox]

...I don't see the convenience of having meals pre-paid anyway. With added things to think about like signature dining, breakfasts, kids meals, and so forth, I think it can be more compilcated than just paying out of pocket.

I never understood the pre-paid rationale either. I'd rather have money in my pocket as long as possible making interest, etc. I feel I have a lot more control when I'm the one in control of the dollars, maybe the furnace goes, maybe someone needs a little help, etc. I use one card on my vacation and I pay it off next month when the bill comes in. The reward dollars start to pile up even while I'm on vacation!

I've heard a lot of stories about people being charged more credits than they were expecting, or the staff not ringing it up as expected (maybe you want to OOP this meal and not use the credits you might have).

Oh well, I guess everyone has their own reasoning...

[TheRustyScupper]

Just a note for the furture- If you children don't like what is on the 3-9 menu you can tell the CM that and you can kid size a adult menu item.

1) I have seen this at 2-TS Signature restaurants.
2) I have not heard of it being done at normal TS restaurants.
3) I would not count on it.

[Samtastic]

Whenever I did the math for our upcoming trip, I found that using any halfway decent discount (AAA, AP, PIN) was at least a little better than paying for the DDP.

Where do you get these discounts and what are they??

[drhama]

We will be at WDW in a week and plan to book the promotional package with the free dining and upgrade to the deluxe package. Many people have mentioned that you just can't eat that much food. If you ate everything on your plate at 3 sit down meals that is probably true. We plan to use the abundance of TS credit to try some of the Signature dinning restaurants. I feel that the $32 cost is well worth it to try some restaurants that we probably would not have done without the plan.

[EmcDuckRN]

I as able to sneak in underneath the rope and get this January's plan purchased under the 2007 model. That said... (UPDATE) We had confirmation from the CM that we would be under the old plan, and since we had made this before the new plan was announced we thought we were safe.

But my DW had a bad feeling about it and called back to check. They informed us that we were set to be on the new plan. Tried the call back and get a different CM trick, Nope, New plan.

We asked for a supervisor. Nope, new plan. What about the confirmation? like it never happened.

So we cancelled the dining plan for our January trip. We also cancelled a lot of our reservations. One or two tables, a few counters, and the rest will be cooked in the room. Thank goodness we bought into DVC. So now I have definitely turned down the plan as it isn't worth it to me.



It was easier, yes. And There were (very few) servers who recieved tips who didn't desrve them.

But in conjunction with the standardization of the menus accross the board, the huge drop in child's choices, and several of my favorites dropping things I loved off of their menus, I can say definitely without a doubt that it has affected my future plans to purchase the DP again.

I would like to know if there was indeed a survey that turned out like that. or if it was the same issue as the "survey" that said that we didn't want extra hours.

[Goes4FastPass]

...I would like to know if there was indeed a survey that turned out like that. or if it was the same issue as the "survey" that said that we didn't want extra hours.Yeah, really. Disney has a funny was of saying things like, "...we listened to our guests..." and then they tell us we don't want extra magic hours, we want a "character caravan" and everything that used to be included - park hopping - no expiration - etc. costs extra so it's "Magic Your Way"...

I understand the Disney Corporation is a business with stockholders, (shhhh... Mickey is a character, not a real person, uh, mouse) I just wish they would say, "There's a new plan with new prices that will take effect X date." Instead of, "Oh boy! Here's some new magic for you!"

I was once on a cruise ship during a Captain's Q&A and someone asked why passengers were not permitted to bring alcohol on the ship. "Because selling alcohol is part of the way the cruise line makes money." was the Captain's immediate reply. "Finally!" I thought, "a simple, direct, honest answer."

[DizneyRox]

I as able to sneak in underneath the rope and get this January's plan purchased under the 2007 model. That said...

It is my understanding that the plan change takes place on January 1, 2008 regardless of when it was purchased. Appetizers will be charged extra and the servers would be expecting to see some change on the tables.

I'm not sure how they will handle vacationers starting their vacation in Dec but staying to January. I would expect they will pay less for the DDP starting on January 1 and will of course get less value as well.

Has anyone heard otherwise? Did I miss a memo?

[January-2007]

I'm not sure how they will handle vacationers starting their vacation in Dec but staying to January. I would expect they will pay less for the DDP starting on January 1 and will of course get less value as well.


Since they have the date based pricing I would think it would turn over to the 2008 version on January 1, just like the pumpkin at midnight...

[EmcDuckRN]

It is my understanding that the plan change takes place on January 1, 2008 regardless of when it was purchased. Appetizers will be charged extra and the servers would be expecting to see some change on the tables.

I'm not sure how they will handle vacationers starting their vacation in Dec but staying to January. I would expect they will pay less for the DDP starting on January 1 and will of course get less value as well.

Has anyone heard otherwise? Did I miss a memo?

No, unfortunately for me you didn't.

We were promised that no matter what we would be on the old plan, and that as they hadn't finalized changes that they would carry guests out to January 15th.

We called back and verfied after the DP changes were announced. But after I took a good look at the changes before posting to this thread the first time, I told the DW about them, and she HAD to call back and check. That is where they told us essentially that our prior converstions were invalid and that we would be placed on the new plan. That the only way that they would carry us over is if we came in on 12/31/07. Uh, No.

So we cancelled it. Hey there is $1,000 plus that they won't get from me. So if anyone missed memos, it would be the CMs we talked to at first.

[cal5755]

We will be at WDW in a week and plan to book the promotional package with the free dining and upgrade to the deluxe package. Many people have mentioned that you just can't eat that much food. If you ate everything on your plate at 3 sit down meals that is probably true. We plan to use the abundance of TS credit to try some of the Signature dinning restaurants. I feel that the $32 cost is well worth it to try some restaurants that we probably would not have done without the plan.

We booked our vacation for 2008 last friday while on vacation. We as a family (there are 10 of us going this time) decided to also go with the Deluxe Dining plan. We plan on doing a lot of 2 ts dinners with a cs as the second meal of the day. We think it is well worth it and I love the fact that everything is done and pre-paid. PLUS alot of the 2 ts meals are with gratuity included. I love having everything planned well before we go and can't wait to start booking at the 180 day mark.

[cperry92380]

I maybe missing something here... but if you maximize the food items your order, you'll still be getting by better than you would if you paid OOP. A drink, entree, and dessert alone can run more than the $38 that the plan costs. Then on top of that, you still have the CS and snack credits too.
I KNOW I can't be in the minority here when I say that when we used the DDP last... we used it to it's fullest potential. There is no way you would have caught me ordering something that was on the cheaper end of the scale, ever. I wanted the most for my $$ (as I'm sure most everyone does...), so I maximized the plan's options.
Although there are some changes to the new plan, we will still use it b/c the plan price will almost if not completely cover the cost of a TS alone...
Even if you do still have to tip on to of that, you still have the CS and snack...
By using the plan, it allows me to choose from the more expensive items, which I would not do if I was paying OOP... and who likes to feel 'deprived' while on vacation... I want to order to the fullest whenever I can.

Just my two cents!

[Jasper]

You know, people often think of the dining plan as a way to save money. In reality I think it is more about being able to accurately plan your food costs in advance so there are far fewer surprises once you get to WDW.

I also think that while it can certainly be helpful to listen to the opinions of people who post in places like Intercot ultimately the most important thing to do is to listen to the opinions of your own family about what is important to them at WDW. Once you really understand your family’s wishes and needs then it becomes very easy to decide if the dining plan works for you or not.

For example, with my family the dining plan really doesn’t work very well because we are park kamikazes. What I mean by that is that we get up early, and either eat a big breakfast at the resort food court or in the room with things that we brought with us to WDW so that we are at the park before it opens. Then we do not eat again until near the very end of the lunch seating at a sit down restaurant in whatever park we are visiting that day.

Again we do not eat until after the park that we are at closes and we have returned to our resort. Food at that time is either what ever is still open at the food court at the resort or a granola bar in the room before we turn in. Throughout the day we snack on things like granola bars or single servings of crackers or cookies that we carried into the park in our waist packs.

With that kind of schedule we just haven’t found the dining plan to be cost effective for our family. However, there are also families out there for who regularly scheduled meals and snack breaks are important. Those people find the dining plan to be a good thing.

Bottom line is to think through what is important to your family and don’t let yourself be drawn off track by other people’s opinions.

[cperry92380]

The Wine & Dine for $39.99 is a good deal. I'm wondering about the logistics. Is that paid per adult in the room, but not per child? Does everyone adult have to be on the Wine & Dine, or just one - since the wine is per room. I mean, the $1 increase with a nice bottle of wine each day would make that worth my while - even without the appetizer.


I was under the impression that the Wine & Dine was an extra $39.99 each day, not a simple $1 increase per day for a whole bottle of wine.

Yea, the Wine & Dine Plan is an additional $39.99 per day per room (not per person).
(Unless you've already figured this out!!:blush:)