We're being sued - *Update 8/22/07*

[poeticeclipse]

I never thought I would need to post on The Water Cooler and request some pixie dust. Sadly, i've found myself in need of a bit more than just "some" pixie dust. If any of you are lawyers or know lawyers... I need some advice.

About a month ago my new husband and I found a cute little home and put a bid on it within 2 days of it being on the market. The seller accepted the next day so we went and signed the buy/sell agreement that night. We were already pre-approved by our bank to look in a certain price range. We ended up getting the house at a lower price than what we could "afford." About a week and a half later we got our Good Faith Estimate. The payment estimates were higher than we were originally told so that suprised us but we could afford it so we thought "okay." 5 days before closing I was told buy our loan officer that (after asking him) our payments are going to be 53 dollars more than on the Good Faith Estimate. My husband called our loan officer and asked for a reason behind the increase. He really didn't have much of a reason. He also told our realtor that he's been telling us the "new numbers" for weeks. False. We also should have gotten a second Good Faith Estimate but we did not. We were able to back up our closing date one more week. We tried to contact the president of the bank that we are going through (also my employer) to see if we could get some straight answers from him since our loan officer simply choses not to tell us anything. The bank president basically side stepped us and told one of the head loan officers to deal with us. Which, never happened. We were simply ignored.

After searching around at 3 other banks (last minute) and finding that our payments would not get any better, we began to discuss "backing out." We asked many people and a lawyer who all said that they've never heard of being sued over this type of breach of contract. I reluctantly agreed with my husband and signed a "hand written" statement saying that we were withdrawing our bid on the home.

Today, we were informed by our realtor that the seller is filing a lawsuit for damages and specific performance. I've done some research and he could easily file for either and win. He could sue for damages because he kicked a renter out 2 days ago and is now losing rent until the home gets sold. He could sue for specific performance because we made him lose potential buyers when we held the house up for a month.

There are more reasons behind us deciding to back out but according to specific performance... they would all be irrelevant. Including losing a car and higher payments than expected. We're really in a pickle and are not sure what to do. This man has NOTHING to take from us other than some money in my personal savings account. We both don't "own" cars (his is technically his parents and so is mine). We don't own a home. We own basically the clothes off of our back.

We do not want to go to court with this man. We can't afford the legal fees. Our realtor works for an attorney and he said that in this type of case he would charge 9K. We don't have that. We know that we're in a bind. We could technically afford the house. We just simply do not want it anymore because of the reasons stated above.

If any of you have any advice at all. I would appreciate it very much.

[DizneyRox]

Well, I can't be of much assistance, however, I can offer an opposing view.

Being a seller in todays market is a NIGHTMARE! There are many buyers who are doing pretty dishonest things, and sellers are having to put up with them hoping and praying that someone will actually purchase their house.

While I'm not the first person to go sue happy, I will tell you that we ARE taking a very aggressive attitude towards potential buyers. I'm not going to settle for what I would consider insincere offers and risk more "stable" buyers passing us by. I'm not passing judgement on you or your situation. I'm just going by some nightmare stories I've heard about buyers from a friend, who is a real estate agent.

The renter situation sounds like a tough one. I would be furious, but that's another reason why I'm NOT considering renting our house out in the meantime. I'd rather it sit empty, that's just be a problem waiting to happen. The other problem sounds frivilous though. Not saying they can't be successful, but I probably wouldn't go that route.

I would however keep the deposit money. That's only fair.

[LibertyTreeGal]

Honey, I have no advice but I'll be praying for you :(

It is sad that people can be so unforgiving and so unmerciful these days -- my MIL is a real estate agent and she is disgusted with the things that people do. I'm sorry that you are going through all of this.

[John]

So - if I am reading right - this is $53 dollars that caused the deal to fail?

The problem is - a good faith estimate is just that. It's not the actual settlement sheet. And now, you have caused real damages to the owner of the other house if they have indeed done what they said and if you let it go that long before settlement.

Can you still buy the property? Might be the cheapest way out... facing legal costs and such.

The simple fact is, property taxes and such can easily cause your payments each year to raise in the $50-100 range... so $53 bucks probably wasn't worth backing out...

[AuntDJ]

I am soooo sorry for your issues! I am not a lawyer nor have I ever been in this position..buthere is my 2 cents...

Did you put up earnest money? A few years ago, I put a bid on a house (that I did not buy) and I had to put up earnest $ so that the seller did not take other bids into consideration while I was "pondering" getting the finances in order, inspections, etc. I decided to back out as I did not like the inspection that came back. The seller got to keep my earnest $.

Then, when I found a 2nd home to buy, I had to put up additional earnest $ for that seller. I did buy that house and the $ were applied to my loan, so it was basically a credit.

I realize we live in different states so things may work differently...It has always been my understanding that as a buyer until everything was final, I could back out at any time...obviously I have been proven wrong..

Best of luck to you!

DJ

[poeticeclipse]

Well, I can't be of much assistance, however, I can offer an opposing view.

Being a seller in todays market is a NIGHTMARE! There are many buyers who are doing pretty dishonest things, and sellers are having to put up with them hoping and praying that someone will actually purchase their house.

While I'm not the first person to go sue happy, I will tell you that we ARE taking a very aggressive attitude towards potential buyers. I'm not going to settle for what I would consider insincere offers and risk more "stable" buyers passing us by. I'm not passing judgement on you or your situation. I'm just going by some nightmare stories I've heard about buyers from a friend, who is a real estate agent.

The renter situation sounds like a tough one. I would be furious, but that's another reason why I'm NOT considering renting our house out in the meantime. I'd rather it sit empty, that's just be a problem waiting to happen. The other problem sounds frivilous though. Not saying they can't be successful, but I probably wouldn't go that route.

I would however keep the deposit money. That's only fair.

That's what makes this situation so tough. We are honest, hard working people. We just got married 2 months ago. Never thought we'd find a house so quick. And surely never thought that our bank (my employer) would screw us over.

Sadly, all the seller hears is "my buyer backed out." He knows nothing of the situation and that is what is really hurting us. Its sad because the "dishonest" people who have no good intention ruin it for the rest of us. We would be more than happy to give the seller a months worth of rent money. I can't imagine not doing that.

[Terra]

Oh no...((((hugs)))) and lots of :pixie: and prayers...
I agree with a previous post in that people can be so unforgiving.

How sad that honest people such as yourselves get treated this way.

[Aunt Kitty's friend]

I am a real estate agent with an understanding of both sides of this transaction. I can understand the seller being quite upset. He thought he was going to an Act of Sale in 5 days when suddenly he was notified that the purchasers had "buyer's remorse". He has the right to sue for the deposit, loss of rental income and specific performance. I can also understand your side of this. The loan is not what you agreed to. Did you lock in your rate? Were your estimates higher for taxes and insurance than expected? If I were you, I would go back to your bank and explain to them that you are being sued by the seller. You need to tell them, again, that the amount of the payment is not what you agreed to and that you did not receive an adjusted Good Faith Estimate. Also, get them to explain to you the reason for the increase. If they cannot explain this or do not have a valid reason for the increase, let them know that once you are sued by the seller, you will have no choice but to sue them in return. You need to remember that a purchase agreement/agreement to sell is a legal contract and will hold up in a court of law. Hopefully you get all of the pixie dust you need! I'm sorry you are having to go through this.

[PirateLover]

I have no real solid advice, just wanted to send some :pixie: and hope that the situation resolves itself. As a newly married couple you should be enjoying yourselves, not having to worry about getting sued. As newcomers to the buying/selling market you were probably taken advantage of by the bank, or at least not given as straightforward answers as those who really know what they are doing. As a young person stepping out into the world myself, It seems that hardly anyone wants to walk you through the process anymore, they just expect you to be on top of it yourself and then of course you are the one in for the shock when they say things have changed again because they didn't explain to you how the process works in the first place.

[DizneyRox]

I just checked with my friend...

The laws in each state ARE different, and we're NOT in Michigan, but...

He says, in general, real estate contracts are designed to protect the buyer. They used to be geared towards the seller but buyer were getting put over the coals so much things have shifted. Hopefully they shifted in your state. So, that's one good thing for you.

Again, he's NOT a lawyer and laws vary by state, but the renter he indicated would appear to be a non issue. Honestly, I thought that was the bigger deal.

He also said that specific performance in our state would basically mean the deposit or the earnest dollars would be forfieted. He didn't think there would be anything else.

He also indicated that you agent SHOULD be helping you through this. It's their job to make sure these types of things don't happen. While they can't prevent it, they shouldn't be offering advice that could result in these type of situations.

He also indicated that with the seller pursueing this, THEY are actually holding up the sale of their house. They can no longer take any offers from elsewhere as they are trying to force you to buy it. Can't sell a house to two people. You might actually need to release them from their part of the contract to sell you the house.

Sounds like a game of chicken almost... I guess it would boil down to who flinches last.

Again, I'm not a lawyer, I didn't talk to a lawyer, and any resemblance this post has to being advice is purely coincidental. I would though recommend that you NOT look on the net for legal precendent. You'll probably end up scaring yourself to not being able to sleep at night. Trust me I've been there. It's not the end of the world, really... I'd have a sit down with your agent and have them go over the option with you. They know the contracts. While they aren't lawyers, they do understand the paperwork that you have signed so far and the ramifications of signing them.

[Brian]

My thoughts echo what DisneyRox says... (We live in Pennsylvania, so things may a be a bit different.)

We sold our house and moved last year. When a buyer made an offer for our home, they also made a deposit. In our paperwork/contracts, we had the right to keep this deposit if the deal fell through. (I believe there was a time limit and after that time limit, the deposit money became ours if the buyer backed out.) Although I never looked into it, I don't think that we could've gone after the buyer for anything beyond their deposit.

I'm not sure if this deposit rule is the same everywhere, but it's something that you may want to check into. Under this scenario, you would lose your deposit money and nothing else. Hopefully your real estate agent can help you out.

Good luck!

[Sunshine1010]

The same thing happened to me. We found our dream home. We did all the paperwork, signed and everything. Then, we get a call stating the payments were going to be more.

Ironically, the same thing happened with a new car we purchased. The financial guy called back and stated the payments would be going up AFTER we did all the paperwork.

In both cases, the increased amounts were not large (about 20-50 dollars on either). Not much at all. But - we were angry.

What's funny is that we felt almost 'lost'. We knew there was nothing we could do about it because we didn't know enough about the business, about the laws, about anything ..... so, we just said 'okay'. If we pursued it, we probably could have gotten 'our way'....but to be honest....we just didn't want to deal with it.

Now, please remember that this wasn't a lot of money and we were able to afford it. But, what if we couldn't? ....

Which....is 'close' to your situation.

My advice: go to a real estate lawyer. Not to sue back....but to talk. To get advice. To calm your nerves. Consultations are free. If you choose to hire him --- then do so. If not, you can get advice. Even paying for advice would be worth it.

I'm sorry this happened to you.

[kakn7294]

Stacey, I'm so sorry for all of your troubles - you seem like such a sweet girl. I'm not a lawyer but here's my advice for you if your real estate agent isn't helping you: contact your local bar association ASAP - ask which lawyers in your area deal with real estate cases such as yours and which ones are the least expensive or will take payments based on your current financial situation. You should be able to meet with a lawyer who will discuss your case and your options for no charge unless they agree to take your case. If the lawyer tells you that you have no chance of fighting the lawsuit, it may be in your best interest to actually go through with the purchase of the house. You can always resell it later if you truly don't want it and it would give you someplace to live in the meantime. Good luck to you guys!!!

[TINKERBELL_82]

Sorry all of this happened to you, but something you said in your story caught my attention. You said that there is "nothing" they can take from you, but if the Plaintiff is awarded monetary damages, you can be forced to pay those by garnishment of wages, so technically they can get money from you even if you have no assets.

Not trying to scare you, just something to consider. I would seriously consider consulting with an attorney in your state.

[Dakota Rose]

This is a yucky situation for sure. My heart goes out to you. I hate buying/selling real estate because it can get sticky.

But...you say:

We know that we're in a bind. We could technically afford the house. We just simply do not want it anymore because of the reasons stated above.


The reasons are the higher monthly payments and the bank jerking you around? While those are legitimate reasons to be furious and anxious (we lived on a very tight budget after we got married, so I understand) I dont' think they are good enough reasons to back out of this deal. Sorry, I know a lot of people are going to flame me for this one.

I think the right thing to do would be to go through with the purchase, find a way to afford the extra $ (you said you could), look for a new job where your boss will support you and put the house back on the market. Yep, it's a lot of work, but you have a contract with the buyer and it's not fair to back out of that because the bank basically changed their contract with you.

Again, I know this is probably not the advice you wanted to hear, and I certainly understand if the whole discussion boards yells at me, but I think this would be the ethical and moral thing to do.

On another note, it takes a lot more than threats to start a lawsuit. So until you're served the papers, I'd say you have some time to work things out with the seller and the bank.

Good luck. This is not a fun situation for sure! And definitely unfair for newlyweds! We bought our first home 4 weeks after we got married and had an AWFUL experience. Not fair! Not fair! You deserve to feel elated right now!!!! Hang in there!!!!

[Ian]

Just to be honest with you, I think you need to buy the house and just deal with the extra $53 a month. Quite honestly, an extra $53 a month is virtually nothing when it comes to a discrepancy between an original GFE and the closing one. Our final mortgage payment ending up being over $200 a month more than our original estimates. Not to mention the fact that after our first year of mortgage payments ended, they upped our payment again by $200 a month to cover escrow shortages.

When they prepare the original GFE, they normally have no idea how much your property taxes or insurance is going to be, if your rate isn't locked in they don't know what the final rate will be, and there's always a possibility that your final underwriting results may be different than what they originally estimate.

I can't possibly fathom why you'd risk a lawsuit that could result in tens of thousands of dollars of pointless expense just to avoid an extra $53 a month you admit you can afford.

Buy the house and be done with it.

[drummerboy]

I am a lawyer, but I'm not licensed in your state, so can't give you specific advice. I do advise you to see a local attorney immediately. You may not decide to hire the attorney, but you can at least get some straight advice on where you stand on the contract (the initial consultation may or may not be free) and may get some peace of mind.

I've been handling several matters of this type for both buyers and sellers lately because our real estate market has tanked in the last couple of years.

[mttafire]

So - if I am reading right - this is $53 dollars that caused the deal to fail?

The problem is - a good faith estimate is just that. It's not the actual settlement sheet. And now, you have caused real damages to the owner of the other house if they have indeed done what they said and if you let it go that long before settlement.

Can you still buy the property? Might be the cheapest way out... facing legal costs and such.

The simple fact is, property taxes and such can easily cause your payments each year to raise in the $50-100 range... so $53 bucks probably wasn't worth backing out...
Just what i was thinking.

[Magic Smiles]

I think the right thing to do would be to go through with the purchase, find a way to afford the extra $ (you said you could), look for a new job where your boss will support you and put the house back on the market. Yep, it's a lot of work, but you have a contract with the buyer and it's not fair to back out of that because the bank basically changed their contract with you.



I have to agree with this post. Go through with the deal and then sell the house if you are not happy with it. It seems to be more of a problem with your bank and not the seller.

[Jeff G]

Each states laws are different so I may be off here. I'm a licensed mortgage originator in Wisconsin. This in not intended to be legal advice, just explain what your facing.

When an individual make an offer on a house an offer to purchase is usually completed. This is a legally binding contract between the seller and buyer that commits each side to the sale transaction. These contracts usually have contingencies set in them that allow the buyer out. Common conditions include financing, inspection and sale of existing property. If these conditions are met the purchase contract is legally binding. I had a customer back out of a purchase recently with all the conditions met on the offer. A few weeks ago I had to give a deposition for the court case stating they were approved for a loan. The buyer in this case lost and was sued for several thousand dollars which included lost rents. The laws from state to state vary but in all states Offer To Purchases are set up to protect both parties and ensure neither back, mainly because the costs associated. Normal costs to both parties in a purchase can exceed $1000 from start to close date.

As for you situation, do you have a financing contingency on your offer? If so are the terms being offered currently by your bank within those? If so you are in a legally binding contract and should purchase the house. As for the Goodfaith estimate, it is truly just that, an estimate. Rates change daily. If you weren't locked into a rate the day the bank gave you the goodfaith estimate this jump in payment could be because rates fluctuated from the day you applied. This is not an illegal practice and happens all the time whether it be a little lower or higher. A new GFE would not be required unless the terms or costs changed.

I feel bad that you are in this situation but to back out because you changed your mind is exactly why they have the offer to purchase and make it a legally binding contract. The seller has costs that he owes specific to selling you this house and being this close he most likely incurred those. He also has a loss of rent plus he has been holding this house for you for the past few weeks or more. The past two months are the best months to sell a house. He is now forced to re-list the house heading into a historically slower sales season. Another reason these contracts are so enforceable, he may have a purchase of another proprtey contingent on the sale of this house. It thats the case this can be a domino affect to several transactions. To play devils advocate, how would it feel to be him? Should he eat his costs and losses? Most courts would say no.

With everything said above if you can afford the extra $53/month, which you stated you could, I would buy the house. If you go to court you are facing an uphill battle and will need to prove you met an out on the contract. I would guess that your bank would state that you were approved for the loan and not many judges would side with you. You'll spend a lot of money on attorneys and still could lose. This would result in a money judgment. You may not have the money now but they may garnish your wages and this will go on your credit and would need to be paid before you can buy another house.

Stacey, I'm not trying to be harsh but I do want to let you know what could happen before you go any further down this path. I would rather have someone shoot from the hip than sugar coat a situatuin like this.


Best of luck!

[SBETigg]

:pixie::pixie: Best wishes that everything works out to your advantage.

[mrsgaribaldi]

I can't help except to send some :pixie::pixie::pixie::pixie:and prayers your way. I hope it works out in your favor:mickey:

[JessicaRabbit]

I am also a lawyer, but like Drummerboy, I am not licensed in your state and cannot give you any specific advice.

I do think that you need to meet with a lawyer to get advice specific to your situation. Someone mentioned contacting your local bar association, and that is very good place to start to get some names of attorneys. You'd best look for one that specializes in real estate. Again, as Drummerboy stated, you may or may not have to pay a consultation fee to speak with one.

You may also want to look into arbitration/mediation - sometimes that method can be used to avoid lawsuits if both parties agree to mediate a dispute instead of going to court. Again, your local bar association should have some information about local mediators.

Good luck.

[SteveL]

Our final mortgage payment ending up being over $200 a month more than our original estimates. Not to mention the fact that after our first year of mortgage payments ended, they upped our payment again by $200 a month to cover escrow shortages.


In thirty two years I don't thyink we ever had one year where there wasn't an escrow shortage.

[BrerSchultzy]

Stacey,

I am so sorry to hear about what you are going through. I cannot offer advice, since my wife and I are about 5 years away from even considering buying a house, but I would like to offer my prayers. My only real advice I can give to you is to take an hour to sit back, relax, do something fun...and then figure out the easiest way out of all this. Usually, the answer that makes the most common sense is the best one...whether it's the best financially or emotionally.

I'm sure you'll get through it...you seem to be one half of a very happy and kind couple. Best wishes to you!

[poeticeclipse]

. Did you lock in your rate? Were your estimates higher for taxes and insurance than expected? If I were you, I would go back to your bank and explain to them that you are being sued by the seller. You need to tell them, again, that the amount of the payment is not what you agreed to and that you did not receive an adjusted Good Faith Estimate. Also, get them to explain to you the reason for the increase.

Our loan officer informed us that the big increase in the payment was the incread loan amount to cover the closing costs. We had to finance for the 4K for the closing costs. Also, there is something that is "homestead/non-homestead." I truly do not understand this fully. It has to do with the fact that there was a renter in the house. Wish I could understand that better. Our loan officer has explained it a bit but it's still pretty over my head.




He also indicated that with the seller pursueing this, THEY are actually holding up the sale of their house. They can no longer take any offers from elsewhere as they are trying to force you to buy it. Can't sell a house to two people. You might actually need to release them from their part of the contract to sell you the house.

Sounds like a game of chicken almost... I guess it would boil down to who flinches last.


This is how we feel. We don't know if he's just "bluffing" or if he's serious about this. This man is an airline pilot and from our understanding... is just out for the extra buck. I'm curious if we will end up liable for this bracket of time since he's starting pursuing a lawsuit. THAT is technically not our fault.


The same thing happened to me. We found our dream home. We did all the paperwork, signed and everything. Then, we get a call stating the payments were going to be more.

Ironically, the same thing happened with a new car we purchased. The financial guy called back and stated the payments would be going up AFTER we did all the paperwork.


Exactly!!! It's SO nice to know that this has happened to someone else before. It's sticky situation because our reasons wouldn't hold up in court. And we know this. That's what makes it such a difficult situation. The president of the bank said that he could make the payments lower by about 30 dollars by not collecting enough for our tax escrow this year. But, we would have a deficiency next year and would have to pay the difference so our payments would just get jacked back up. Really, that'd be just shooting us in the foot.




The reasons are the higher monthly payments and the bank jerking you around? While those are legitimate reasons to be furious and anxious (we lived on a very tight budget after we got married, so I understand) I dont' think they are good enough reasons to back out of this deal. Sorry, I know a lot of people are going to flame me for this one.


Again, I know this is probably not the advice you wanted to hear, and I certainly understand if the whole discussion boards yells at me, but I think this would be the ethical and moral thing to do.

Good luck. This is not a fun situation for sure! And definitely unfair for newlyweds! We bought our first home 4 weeks after we got married and had an AWFUL experience. Not fair! Not fair! You deserve to feel elated right now!!!! Hang in there!!!!

This is exactly why I came to Intercot for this. I knew that you would be straight-forward with me. I'm not a sugar coating type of person. I want and NEED to hear it straight. I appreciate your honesty. I wouldn't have it any other way.




To play devils advocate, how would it feel to be him? Should he eat his costs and losses? Most courts would say no


This is how I feel. That's why I was so reluctant to backing out in the first place. I feel terrible for this guy even though he sounds like a jerk. Guess we're just going to have to **** it up and deal.

Thank you all for your help! It makes me feel a lot better to get more opinions and pixie dust.

[Donald A]

I am not an attorney, but I have worked with 3 different ones recently. The law is complicated. I would say you have two choices:
1) Buy the house. Look at the contract and if the bank lied you can pursue legal action later. Also if you decide to buy and something is wrong with the house that the seller didn't disclose when he should have, you can consider a lawsuit against him and include legal costs.
2) Hire an attorney. Unfortunately, you can't defend yourself without one. Don't listen to your realtor about costs associated ($9000). That agent wants you to buy the house and probably isn't looking out for you. Attorneys are expensive but maybe there is something there that was illegal with the bank, agent, or even seller that can get you out of this and get your legal fees paid.

I know this is incredibly unfair, but you are not alone in this. I just spent $1000 to have a contract reviewed that took the attorney 3 hours to review and give his opinion on. I am not even taking any action at this time.

I do wish you the best and I really do think you should not wait and if you have already been sued you need an attorney ASAP unless you decide to buy the house and the seller will drop the lawsuit with no other damages. Like I said, maybe your attorney will really help you out.

[MsMin]

Our loan officer informed us that the big increase in the payment was the incread loan amount to cover the closing costs. We had to finance for the 4K for the closing costs. Also, there is something that is "homestead/non-homestead." I truly do not understand this fully. It has to do with the fact that there was a renter in the house. Wish I could understand that better. Our loan officer has explained it a bit but it's still pretty over my head.

First an extra strong dose of :pixie: and a :hug: It's so hard when you just start out b/c there are many life lessons we just haven't experienced yet.
I agree that the agent may not be acting in your best interest but I also wonder if your note wouldn't drop if after you've lived there a year??
Yes, our state is different as most of us do vary but this homestead/non homestead makes me wonder if some of the differences are not b/c of the tax estimates on the house?? Taxes are higher when it is rental property to the bank may be estimating your property taxes based on the current situation. However after you live there for the required period, could be six months, I don't know your state but maybe you could file for a homestead exemption since this will be your primary residence and your payment will drop (these are annual changes not instant). Also remember that most often rental property continues to rise when your mortgage payment should change based on insurance and tax payments. It may be better now to dig in a little deeper and stretch the budget b/c as prices rise you could still face the same problem in years to come. If the bank is willing to lend you the money then they must be calculating the fact that you should be able to afford it w/i your budget (doesn't have to be the most comfortable but it does get easier)
Sorry but there are some agents out there who are only interested in the sale and this agent could be your seller's agent. Basically, may not have your best interest and could be encouraging him to sue- we don't know. My point is don't trust everything they say.
I do think a lawyer is your best bet and I agree, most don't charge for a consultation and they would know what's best for the contract you signed. :pixie:

[January-2007]

First off, here's some more :pixie: for you, you can never have enough. Second, wow, I am so sorry this is happening to you! I am not a lawyer, I do not own a house, I am just another newlywed here to give you a :hug: and say good luck to you. You've gotten some good sounding advice here, so I hope you two can pull through and make the decision to do what's best for your situation, whatever it ends up being. :pixie:

[poeticeclipse]

So, here's an update folks...

There is no update. Which stinks. The night our realtor called us and told us that the seller was filing the lawsuit she told us that the papers were already faxed over to the bank. Well, I work at the bank. I ask our loan officer everyday if he's seen any papers floating around. And he's seen nothing at all. I'm really wondering if this guy is just bluffing. I would hate too think that he's dead serious about the lawsuit and then go ahead and buy the house that we don't really want to deal with. But, at the same time... if we go on thinking "oh, he's just pulling our leg" and just sit on it... then he could probably end up being the one person who isn't bluffing and we'll get a real lawsuit slapped in our faces. Right now, we haven't seen anything tangible. Just a little talk. We've talked to an attorney and he's still looking over the buy/sell agreement. We also got told by a family friend to ask the bank if they would write us a letter stating that they weren't comfortable lending us the money. But, since the loan would have technically went through (most likely), they couldn't write that letter. No surprise there. That just wouldn't be honest.

Right now we're just waiting. We're waiting to here from our attorney to see what our next move should be.

Thank you all for all of your support and guidance. I read all of the things you all have been saying to my husband. The words out of his mouth were "Wow, it's like a family here." Made me cry after saying that. I'm just so lucky that in a world where good people get screwed over, there is a place like INTERCOT to really put your mind in a peaceful state.

[Donald A]

The night our realtor called us and told us that the seller was filing the lawsuit she told us that the papers were already faxed over to the bank.

Maybe you could clarify for us by what you mean when you say the papers were faxed to the bank. Do you mean the lawsuit papers? If you do (I am not sure) they would not be faxed as a lawsuit or legal document would probably be certified mail? I am also concerned that the realtor is calling you and saying that the seller is filing a lawsuit.

Obviously, you will want to ask your attorney this for sure, but if you are not going to buy the house, I would direct all calls from your realtor to the attorney and let that individual handle it. The realtor should not be your only source of information and I really sense (if you can sense anything over the internet) that she may not have your best interest in mind.

[kakn7294]

I agree with Donald A - your real estate agent doesn't sound like she's very much on your side. In fact, it sounds like she's supporting the seller's cause - perhaps because she's missing out on her commission. Is she also the listing agent for the house? If she is, DO NOT rely on her to give you accurate information! She's looking out for her own bottom line and not yours. Good luck to you! More :pixie: for your case!

[Jeff G]

The quotes from the realtor don't seem to add up. Why would the seller send anything to your banK? As a bank they are only involved in financing the loan. If a lawsuit were to be filed I would think the only way your bank would be involved is to state whether you qualified for the laon or not. In the case I just was involved with the only time I was involved as a banker was giving a depostion that my customer was approved for the loan. My customer had also asked me for a denial letter under false pretenses which I also had to give testimony to.

If the seller does decide to sue you most likely won't know for a month or more until the case goes to court and your served papers.

Here's a little extra pixie dust to get you through :pixie:.

Jeff

[HollyB]

Years ago, we sold our house in upstate New York. The buyer signed a contract, put down earnest money, and we took the house off the market. We agreed to buy a home in Pennsylvania and were ready to move and Poof the buyer backed out a few days before closing! OK, we thought, at least we get her earnest money. Nope, upon consulting with a lawyer we learned that (at least at the time) we would have to SUE the buyer to keep the earnest money. While we were suing the buyer (which could take up to two years to work through the courts) we could not list the house. Also, ultimately in the lawyer's opinion, we would lose. The judges in that area were going to see us (young, two incomes) suing an approaching retirement, single woman and the sympathy was going to be with her. We decided the most expedient thing to do was void the contract, walk away, and move on. Which is what we did, but only after discussing it with a lawyer--one who knew the local legal practices.

I think you've gotten excellent advice to consult a local lawyer. The only other advice I can offer--and I do so with all due respect to realtors on this board and elsewhere--is that the realtor is NOT your friend. It is easy to fall into that line of thinking because you spend weeks or months with that person looking at homes or selling a home, but ultimately the realtor only gets paid if a home is sold. You are not in a friendship relationship with the realtor you are in a business relationship with him or her. So while the realtor may be helpful and friendly (and the ones we have dealt with all have been), the only one in that relationship 100% vested in your self interests is you. It's something I have to remind myself of everytime we buy or sell a home because it is easy to forget.

Good luck.

[poeticeclipse]

We feel as though we're in a real bind with the realtor. We came upon her when a co-worker of mine's husband (who is a butcher) said that she is very friendly and an honest to God good person. We trusted them and set up a time to look at one house. Which, turned out to be complete junk. A week later, the house that we decided to put a bid on went up on the market. 2 days later, we looked at it. That night, she told us that there was another couple going to look at it the next night and that if we really felt strongly about it... we should put a bid in right away. So, the next day we signed the buy/sell and offered the guy 67,000.00 when he was asking 69,900.00. Keep in mind that we live in a tiny city in southwest Michigan. The cost of living is VERY low. And while you can't even find a home for that price many places, it's gets you a great starter home here in our area. The day after we put the bid in, the guy accepted.

We began the waiting process. We felt as though nothing was going on. Or if something was, we didn't know about it. Our bank didn't tell us much and neither did our realtor. Although, our realtor did inform us days, maybe weeks later that there were other bids on the house and that we were lucky we got it. Which, after we decided to back out of the deal discovered that that statement wasn't even true at all. We got our first and only GFE about 1 1/2 weeks later from a loan officer... not even ours. Our loan officer went on vacation over the week so he gave the work to someone else. The estimated payments per month according to the GFE was 600.00. That was what the loan officer said would be the "absolute highest" when we first told him about the house. We sighed and just went along with it, hoping it would at some point go down. Then a few days later we hear that the closing costs will be over 4K. We don't have an extra four thousand dollars lieing around so our loan officer suggested to roll the closing costs into what we finance for. So, we signed a new buy/sell and offered the guy 71,000.00. The seller would then right us a check for 4K at closing. Made no sense to me but I went along with it. 6 days before our scheduled closing date, I ask our loan officer if we're still looking at the $600.00 number. He said no. It will be 653.00 ish. I ask why, he gives me a song and dance about the homestead/non-homestead business (something about because it was a rental property). My husband is floored when I tell him the jump in price all because of an extra 4K added in. He calls the loan officer who then gives my husband a new song and dance about how it was raised because of the closing costs. The loan officer also claimed that he sent out an updated GFE weeks ago. Well, weeks ago is when we go the first one. My brother financed his house a few years back for 87,000.00. He only pays 700.00 a month. His interest rate is a bit HIGHER than ours. Makes no sense why we would pay only 50 bucks less than someone who financed for 16K more than us. Granted, we are doing a Rural Development loan which we heard the payments are actually a "bit" higher with. Never the less, I just don't understand.

That's where the "technically affording it" thing came in. We COULD afford the extra 50 bucks. We'd have to cut something else out of the budget, but, we COULD do it. My husband and I felt as though we weren't getting a "deal." We felt as though we kept getting pulled around and didn't want to end up with a 700 dollar a month payment at signing for a house that isn't even worth that! It's classified as a "bungalow" for crying out loud! After 2 days of sitting on it contemplating, we decided to withdraw the bid. That's where all heck broke loose.

We're still waiting to here back from our attorney. Who seems to be "sitting on things" as well. We have until the 8th to decide what we're going to do. Hopefully i'll be able to come back here Monday afternoon and let you all know.

[Here we go again...]

My step sister is a realtor and we bought a house through her years ago. When the housing market went down she got out of it and started working a regular 9-5 job.

Only after 10 years did she hint that the other "person" interested in the same house we were looking at never existed. We were led to believe that there were others looking at the same house and an offer had been made... we needed to make an offer fast if we wanted the house.
When we made our offer she kept telling us that it would probably be rejected because it was too low. Well, they accepted and we are still in this old house.

So, that just shows you that the loyalty of a realtor is not with you. My own step sister could not be honest with me because she was the seller's realtor. Everything she did was in their best interest...

[poeticeclipse]

I just wanted to update everyone on how things have panned out since we got the seller's attorney papers claiming that he was going to sue us. We tried desperetly to have our attorney contact the sellers. After a few days of trying... we gave up. Thinking "the seller will only give us one week to close so we better not push it." So, we went ahead and got all of the paperwork going again with the bank. A day after starting things back up the seller's attorney calls ours and said "oh, just make the seller an offer!" A little too late for that. I wish we never heard that in the first place. We didn't even want the house but went ahead with it thinking there was no other way out.

We signed closing papers yesturday. After 50 minutes, the house was ours. We went to look at the house and take my family through it. After coming up from the basement, my sister in law noticed black bugs all over her legs. We all looked down and noticed the same thing on our legs. The culprit - fleas. Tons of them. Took about 10 minutes for us to get them off of each other. We all went home and took showers.

Today we are buying flea bombs... hopefully ridding these little pests from our house. Any of you have tips on getting rid of them? I have a dog and probably will not be able to bring the dog into the house until we KNOW the fleas are all gone. He will just have to stay with my mom for a while. Oh well.

I'll keep you all updated on how the move goes!

[DizneyRox]

I would suggest a professional for the fleas. The bombs will work, but you need to do it a couple times to be safe, AND your dog should be treated with something like Frontline as well regardless of if you go on your own, or with a pro..

You need to space out the treatments too. Your first treatment would maybe kill the adults, but the eggs may still hatch. Those are the ones you need to kill with the second treatment. Follow the directions to the day, the life cycle is predictable, if you go off cycle you're doomed.

Since you aren't in yet, now is the best time to do it obviously. If it were me, I'd go overboard with the consumer flea bombs. For me, more is always better.

[Jeff G]

Yuck. That is a lot of fleas to have that many on you that quick. I would recommend a professional. My in-laws had watched a friends dog who had fleas. By the time they realized the fleas were in the house they had started to reproduce and the over the counter bombs weren't enough to to get rid of them.

After all that you went through during the purchase process I really feel bad for you and now this. Newlyweds shouldn't have to start their lives together with this much stress. Here's a little :pixie: to help you through.

[BrerSchultzy]

I think a professional is the way to go, but if you want to try flea bombs first, they are certainly less expensive. And after the headache to just get this far, you may want to try the cheapest and easiest method to see if it works.

I am so sorry to hear about all the hassle. But remember, WDW was just a big old swamp before Walt got ahold of it! :mickey:

[CleveSJM]

Great news on the house and the end of legal concerns hanging over your head. :thumbsup:

Our first house had some fleas in it when we moved in. Previous owner had a dog but we didn't have any pets. We bombed and they died off real quick. I hear it's tougher if you have a pet they can reinfest easier.

I'd use a professional as well. Would be good for all the little pests in the house. You'll sleep better at night and remodeling will be easier if you are not worried about bugs.

[RedSoxFan]

Congrats on the house. We had fleas in our first house and I was 7 months pregnant with DS#1. I had a bad reaction to them -- bites everywhere. DH was not affected at all. I remember him "bombing" the house and that seemed to work.

[The Bookseller]

I might be late in all this but here's my advise: regardless of what bugs you have (Legal or not) dealing with a professional is the way to go.

Here's some :pixie: to cover the rest of the story.

[princessgirls]

Congratulations on the purchase of your Home.

May you be blessed and enjoy many happy years there.

On the fleas, pay the money to a professional and get rid of them. They are trouble!!
Julie:mickey:

[mrsgaribaldi]

Congratulations on your new home!!! May the fleas and the problems leading up to the purchase of the house be the only problems that you ever have there:thumbsup::pixie::pixie::pixie:

[MsMin]

We bought a house once with fleas, just as you speak of, our legs were peppered w/ fleas when we went in. It's not uncommon, yes aggravating, but just one flea alone in a house can produce a ton of fleas. We rid the fleas ourselves and I hate for you all to have additional expenses b/c there are so so many when you purchase a house. Do ask the Realtor if she will pay for it. Sometimes they will, she did get a nice commission I'm sure.
After bombing make sure you vacuum. After vacuuming make sure to throw the bag out right away b/c the eggs can hatch inside the vacuum. A good flea treatment for your dog like frontline will help rid the house too b/c it sterilizes the fleas that bite (not sure exactly how it works but they do rid the house and yard of fleas). Don't forget too that tapeworms are passed from swallowing a flea so watch out for possible tapeworms for your dog too. I think if your dog takes something like ivermectin (found in meds like heartgard for heartworms) it will kill tapeworms too.
More :pixie: and enjoy your new home.

[brownie]

Flea bomb every level of the house, including the attic. You'll need to clean the carpets as well before moving in. It sounds like it's bad, I'd probably use a professional exterminator to take care of it before moving in, and get a carpet cleaning service in afterwards to clean the carpets. Make sure you change the furnace filter, too.

[poeticeclipse]

Here's an update....the fleas are gone! We hope!

We needed to do one flea bomb upstairs on the first floor and two flea bombs in the basement. This weekend we started to paint the bedroom. We got some nice modern bedding at Target and have begun creating our "love nest." haha!! Once that is all done... we will probably start moving stuff in. The kitchen is next on the agenda of things to do. The old laminate floors are awful and so are the laminate countertops. The cabinets aren't so bad... they just need some updated hardware. This will probably start getting pricy soon but, if we want to live in it and then someday, sell it... we want to make sure that it's something that a perspective buyer might want.

Anyone have any tips on remodelings kitchens on a budget? We've thought about doing laminate floors and countertops. If we can spring for it, i'd like ceramic tile right above the countertops. Not sure how much that'll run us. The kitchen is TINY. It's probably 10 feet by 7 feet. That's my guess at least. Oh boy... the remodeling begins...!

[kaerbear178]

If you need any help or advice on the remodeling let me know. I'm just finishing up my degree in Interior Design and I've sold tile for the last 4 years. I do kitchens and bathrooms ALL the time. Anything to help a fellow intercotee!

[RenDuran]

I redid our kitchen on a very tight budget....and I still love it almost 10 years later!

I painted all the cabinets white and changed the hardware. Then I tiled the countertops and backsplash. I had never done tile work before, so I wondered if I should just pour my money down the drain instead! But I bought a book and a video, and my countertops turned out pretty great! The only problem I have with the white grout is keeping it white! So about once or twice a year, I bleach it with a toothbrush! That's all it takes.

Good luck!:)

[BigRedDad]

OK. I read through about half the posts. I want to start off with the original. You made the offer and wanted to back out because of an issue with YOUR lender. The seller filing suit is completely legitimate and I agree with it. On a $67k loan for 30 years at 7.75% interest is only $480 a month. Then, add insurance, tax, and HOA dues, you are looking at maybe $550 a month. Splitting the loan to pay half on the 1st and half on the 15th will turn the loan into a 24 year loan. Make 1 extra payment per year and this goes down to about 18 years. Not bad. Plus, the tax write-offs will recover the $53 per month with no problem.

Rant Off:

Now that you have bought the home and it is flea infested, you have a little LAW work on your own to do. In any state in the US, there is a right of disclosure when selling a home. The Seller must declare all known conditions when selling their home: foundation problems, pest problem, lead, etc. The only reason I know this is a pest problem in a home sold in my state. If the home is that infested with fleas, there is NO WAY the seller did not know this. By not declaring this at Closing, he is liable for all cost to rectify the situation. You can easily find this because it should be in an addendum in the closing. The Closing Attorney would have had to gone over this word for word and explain it to you. Then you sign it.

What happened in my state is a family bought a fairly expensive house. If I recall, it was over $400k. At night, they heard weird noises and couldn't find out what it was. One night a bat was in their bedroom. They called a pest control company that found a colony of bats in the attic. Unfortunately, these specific bats are protected by law and cannot be moved, forced out of the residence, or killed. After battling back and forth, the court ruled that there was no way for the seller not to know the bats were there. The seller was forced to take return of the home and return payment for all closing costs.

I would check the laws in Michigan. Verify the Right of Disclosure. Document the problem and how noticeable it is. Then threaten the Seller with another lawsuit. There are several options: rectify the situation with their own contractors, pay contractors you choose yourself, or retake ownership of the home.

Good luck with the home and how you proceed from here.