Is Disney successfully (re)capturing the magic?

[Grim Grinning Marathon Runner]

I'm sure the YOAMD is a huge success, and a lot of interest is being generated, but I can't help but wonder if Disney is successfully (re)capturing the magic.

I've read here about how some of the magic seems to have been lost, and I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't witnessed it on our last trip.

It seems like a large percentage of the CMs still truly love Disney and their jobs, but there seems to be a growing number of CMs who just don't care. I personally saw a CM, when asked a question at the Poly say "I don't know" and walk away. I asked a CM in a store for help, and she said "that's not my job, I'm just a stock person".

These are just a couple of examples, but it's something that I am defintely hoping will change.

Could it be just the culture in general is changing, and Disney is still holding to the nostalgic ways they always have been. Or could it just be me? :)

[Main Street Jim]

there seems to be a growing number of CMs who just don't care.It's not just the front-line Cast that doesn't care any more....

[Ten of Hearts]

It's always been like this. If they are kind and helpful, I thank them. There are some really nice cast members- some not so. You might want to check out the topic/book 'Former Disney Cast Member Tells All'. :waycool:

[JPL]

Unfotunately with the wages they pay CMs and the way they run the operation it is going to take sometime to bring Disney back tp the golden years. The culture that was started by Eisner will take a while to revert back to the old ways. There are some good signs with changes in Management and some TLC going into the parks. But on the other with outsourcing of jobs and cutbacks in certain areas it is still a give and take battle with the take winning out right now. I think it will take a few years of Iger at the helm and the new management in place to really see where the company is heading.

[mttafire]

I never really saw a decline to begin with.:confused: My first trip to Disney that i remember WELL was in 84..i was 14. (I went many times as a child in the 70''s)I and then "WE" my wife have been going back every few years or so. IMHO, Disney is a good as ever. With all the available "things" to do the whole Disney destination is better than ever. As for park cleanliness..I think its never really changed (cleanest parks there are!) and as for CM's..Honestly, We are to busy havin fun to notice or even care. Overall, Disney to me is the same great place it always was, OR even better.:mickey: I will say this though...From what i understand the new man in charge (Iger) is the real deal. We'll have to wait and see.

[ThanxForNoticin]

I never really saw a decline to begin with.

I'd like to agree with this statement. I think we tend to forget bad experiences over the years and just focus in on the 'good old days'. Personally, I remember the occasional CM encounter years ago that might not have been the best, just as you will get now and then today. But for the most part, Disney CMs do help make it a very magical place, and have been for years. It's why we've kept going back for so many years.

[Stu29573]

Granted, I haven't been in a few years (hopefully 2008), but when I was there last was right smack in the middle of the Eisner years and I didn't ntice any difference between then and when I first started going in the 70's and 80's. I think it's in the way you look at things, though. I don't go often (unfortunately), so when I'm there I'm just thrilled to be at Disney- therefore it would take some pretty bad experiences to bring me down. If I went all the time, I might notice more, but I can't say for sure. :mickey:

[Roo Girl]

I think we tend to put Disney and WDW on such high pedestals because we love the magic so much and we are so passionate about everything Disney. If there is "a" CM or even 5 CMs that give an attitude or don't seem helpful, keep in mind that is 5 out of tens of thousands of CMs throughout the world that do capture the magic. I know it is a bubble burster when we encounter someone who isn't as jazzed as we are about being there (CM or guest alike) but we need to remember that they are human beings just like us and they have bad days at work just like we do- sure we're there for fun and relaxation but they are just having another day at the job. I think Disney does SO MANY things right that when there is a small hiccup, we shouldn't hold them to the fire over it. On the whole, and DH and I go 4-5 times per year, every single trip is outstanding because of the customer service and the cleanliness and the high level of immersion into the"show" WDW puts on for us. I definitely do not see a downslide. If anything, I think things are just getting started on a great road to golden years at WDW.

[MarkC]

I apologize in advance for waxing nostalgic, but I think if we remember back to our first Disney trip, we probably all thought everything was about perfect. I'm also guessing that until the last 10-12 years there were only a select few people that ventured to WDW on a yearly basis. However, people travel much more than they used to and the Internet has changed things dramatically. Even Disney has had to adapt to internet rumors, discount codes, etc. My point is, the more you see or hear something, the more likely to find flaws in it. If I hear a new song that I love, I can't wait to hear it again. However, after the 100th time the newness has worn off and I want to hear something different (unless it's by the Beatles). I think us Disney repeat visitors are like that. You can't compare one vacation to another, and timing obviously has a lot to do with it. We can't go back in time and our perception of what's important changes as well. I just hope I never grow up and never tire of going to Disney. We just bought a BCV timeshare via resale so we should be good for a few more years.

[Stickey]

The magic has never been in jeopardy. The degree of magic is determined by the expectations and experiences of each individual.

Will every individual consider his/her trip to WDW as perfect, with the magic meter at maximum? No. Can Disney improve its CM service and pay greater attention to the little things? Certainly. The challenge of maintaining such a large number of cm's in this era is significant. However, Disney needs to improve its training standards to live up to its traditions.

Repeat WDW visitors tend to scrutinize their trips more than new visitors. For example, you are enjoying your second stay at the WL, then you suddenly encounter the Scupper! Now, you are convinced that your first experience at the WL was vastly superior. Higher than expected crowd levels can also drain the magic.

Each trip should be evaluated on its own merit. Do not expect each CM to be your new best friend. Recognize that some CM's are just looking to make it through the day. Appreciate the CM's who go above and beyond and thank them for their extra effort.

[DizneyRox]

Unfortunately, I still see it in a downward spiral. And it's not only in the things you can see and feel, it's much of the "behind the scenes" stuff as well.

I will agree though it's not going down as fast as it was towards the end of the Ei$ner reign, it's still dropping.

There hasn't been any significant effort put into training new CMs in traditions. The quality of the CMs is at the heart of the problem in my opinion. When service is your business, you need to concentrate on quality service, and that starts with quality people with quality training. It also means you may need to open up the purse strings a little to actually attract quality people.

Muchof my other complaints with the properties still stand. The grounds aren't in the same condition as they were pre MIllennium Celebration. More is "run down" than in years past. And run down IS compared to years past, but the standards are lower than before.

And the money first mentality is really evident EVERYWHERE on property.

[mttafire]

Granted, I haven't been in a few years (hopefully 2008), but when I was there last was right smack in the middle of the Eisner years and I didn't ntice any difference between then and when I first started going in the 70's and 80's. I think it's in the way you look at things, though. I don't go often (unfortunately), so when I'm there I'm just thrilled to be at Disney- therefore it would take some pretty bad experiences to bring me down. If I went all the time, I might notice more, but I can't say for sure. :mickey:
Agreed 100%. I share the opinion that there isnt any difference between now and the 70's( glory days). I really think its BETTER now with many more choices and resorts,parks etc. When we are there, Which is relatively often.We are so happy and blessed to be there that we dont "look" for things to have issues with. We are just plain glad we are there. I supposed if the only thing on my mind was to find something to complain about...i could. The last time we were at the "World"
was in 05. The magic was as good as ever!:thumbsup: I will also add that another poster made an excellent point that "The magic has never been in jeopardy. The degree of magic is determined by the expectations and experiences of each individual. " We have both high expectations and continue to have GREAT experiences from Disney.:mickey: We have never been let down.

[LudwigVonDrake]

The Magic is within you :tink: If it's not there, it's because of you! I was in WDW two weeks ago and can say that I had the best time I've ever had at WDW. The new attractions were awesome - Everest and Laugh Floor stand out. The only disappointing thing was that The Haunted Mansion was closed but the fact that it's getting some well needed TLC made it easier t swallow.

WDW is just as Magical as ever...if you allow it! :smickey:

[mttafire]

The Magic is within you :tink: If it's not there, it's because of you! I was in WDW two weeks ago and can say that I had the best time I've ever had at WDW. The new attractions were awesome - Everest and Laugh Floor stand out. The only disappointing thing was that The Haunted Mansion was closed but the fact that it's getting some well needed TLC made it easier t swallow.

WDW is just as Magical as ever...if you allow it! :smickey:Perfectly stated.:thumbsup:

[Mickey91]

[QUOTE]Unfortunately, I still see it in a downward spiral. And it's not only in the things you can see and feel, it's much of the "behind the scenes" stuff as well.

I feel exactly the same


There hasn't been any significant effort put into training new CMs in traditions. The quality of the CMs is at the heart of the problem in my opinion. When service is your business, you need to concentrate on quality service, and that starts with quality people with quality training. It also means you may need to open up the purse strings a little to actually attract quality people.
This is quite evident. People today think it is their right to have a job. No need to earn it. The fact that Disney has given in to this makes me sick.:ack:



Muchof my other complaints with the properties still stand. The grounds aren't in the same condition as they were pre MIllennium Celebration. More is "run down" than in years past. And run down IS compared to years past, but the standards are lower than before.


I agree. The quality of the upkeep is one of the most important Disney trade marks. Walt would turn over in his grave if he saw the lack of care given to the grounds and the sad state of some attractions.


And the money first mentality is really evident EVERYWHERE on property.
I quite agree. With the loss of unique merchandise between the parks, the outrageous prices to dine in the castle, the overall generic and cheaply made merchandise of the past few years and the feeling that you're our guest as long as you have the right amount of $$$ and if you don't, just be happy to be allowed to walk in, it is hard not to see the money first attitude.

I also agree that some of the magic does come from within. However, Disney is beginnng to rely too much on past success and greatness. Eventually, the most recent experiences are remembered far better than our first. Can Disney afford for those memories to be filled with CMs who won't help you unite with your family? CMs at the concierge desk who don't care to give you the time of day because THEY are too important? CMs who cannot see beyond themselves to help a little girl meet Fairy Godmother? CMs who tell a first time family concerned over Dec crowds that this is the slowest time ever when in truth it is one of the most busy 1st weeks of Dec in recent memory, much more so than in Aug.? Who turns to another guest that is trying to assure her that it is indeed very crowded for that time of year, and tells her that "of course I am an idiot. I have only worked here for 14 years. But you would know best." In the most sarcastic voice I have ever heard. I was flabergasted that a CM would have that much venim and would be that set on telling a first timer that this horrible crowd was the lowest she would ever see it. These are just a few of the most recent memories I have of the CMs at Disney. I also have a few wonderful tales. And, please do not think I am bashing all CMs. I am just speaking out against the tolerance Disney is beginning to have with CMs who would do much better as Walmart greeters. The ones who obviously don't understand the position they hold. And, to any Top Disney Executives who may read this, please train all your CMs to be excellent! To treat everyone as a special guest. Begin to erase the negative memories of recent years to be replaced again with excellence and the most special magic ever created. End the greed.

[skylardad]

Regarding the inconsistency of CMs, I'll ask this question...

If you are a company trying to employ 50,000+ in a single resort area, how consistent do you think the quality will be from CM to CM?

I'm not trying to give excuses for WDW to fall back on because I have been going to WDW since the opening year, every year (and last year as an Orlando resident 3-4 times a week) and I vividly remember the standards of not only CMs but the property itself. There should be no excuse for a decline in service despite the growth.

However, when you grow a company as fast as WDW has grown there needs to be a plan in effect before you lay the first brick for expansion on how the facility is going to be staffed at the standards that have been set.

Bottom line is there aren't 50,000+ people in the Orlando area who are going to work for the wages that WDW is going to pay to maintain the original standards in the 70s and 80s.

The other problem is that this staff of 50,000+ and the condition of the parks (the run-down look that has been refered to) is the EMH program.

In order to keep more people on property WDW began offering the EMH program for resort guests. Its an awesome promotion scheme. But it is also taking its toll on the parks. The turn-around time from park closing to park opening is getting cut shorter in many instances. This takes time away from properly cleaning and maintaining the park after hours. And in order to facilitate the EMH you have to cut payroll from one area to pay for the other.

While I still think WDW has the best variety of entertainment for a family, I also believe they have a vast amount of room for improvement to bring back the standards of the pre-Eisner era. There are also a lot of other little touches that some people don't even realize that are gone (mostly because they are going for the first time in the more recent era and do not have the memories of the early 70s and 80s to compare to).

I am anxious for Mr. Iger to dig his heels into the parks division. If he gives the parks the same attention he is giving the other divisions he is rebuilding, they stand a chance of exceeding the expectations that the newer visitors to WDW have (which at this point are just as exciting to them now as the purists have of WDW in the days when EPCOT Center and the MK were the only two parks).

[Grim Grinning Marathon Runner]

The Magic is within you :tink: If it's not there, it's because of you! I was in WDW two weeks ago and can say that I had the best time I've ever had at WDW. The new attractions were awesome - Everest and Laugh Floor stand out. The only disappointing thing was that The Haunted Mansion was closed but the fact that it's getting some well needed TLC made it easier t swallow.

WDW is just as Magical as ever...if you allow it! :smickey:

I may not have made myself clear. I take every opportunity to make each of my Disney trips a special one, and I do agree that a part of the magic that you experience while there is a factor of the magic you carry with you.

But what I'm talking about is the original concept that Walt had, which, by and large, still does exist. What have seen in a decline are those things like how Disney castmembers are supposed to:

-make visitors to the parks truly feel like guests, while "performing" in the role of a castmember. Disney is supposed to be more than just an employee/patron theme park

-show visitors an overall "experience", rather than just another vacation. Part of this "experience" is achieved through things that have been mentioned, like regular maintenance and cleaning of the parks, and an overall immersion in the "experience".

As an example here, Disney has, in the past, taken pride in cleanliness. Trash is not supposed to be floating around the parks, and is monitored on a regular basis. Restrooms are supposed to be kept clean on an ongoing basis. Last week, I was shocked to see a majority of restrooms in a filthy condition, with urine all over the floor, sporadic availability of toilet paper and paper towels, and malfunctioning toilets.

-seek out opportunities to interact with guests, and contribute to the "experience" of the guest by interacting with them. I just don't see this happening as much as I used to.

I know I'm a bit nostalgic, and I do remember the days when there was only one park, and you could essentially "do Disney' in one day, two if you really stretched it, but it just seems to me that the corporate culture, the attitude of some castmembers, and society as a whole are not going in the same direction.

[DisneyNut2005]

Despite all the problems, the magic is just as present as ever and will endure.

There's always room for improvement, but the good will always outweigh the bad.

I also agree with Ludwig Von Drake's assessment that the magic is inside you.

[Mickey91]

I totally agree with you Grim.

I would also like to point out, that for the majority of jobs at WDW, the skill level required to to a great job is no different than the skill level to work at Burger King. When you go to Burger King, you don't expect the person taking your order to be less than friendly. You expect your order to be right, and you expect it to be delivered quickly and with a smile. So, why should you not expect an employee of WDW, who is in WDW while they work, to be pleasant, helpful and ready to make your day the best? They went to WDW to get a job. They agreed to the pay when they signed their work contract or agreement. They have to be at work for x amount of hours anyway, make the most of it. If you are only making minimum wage, why not make it while at the happiest place ever. And if you are priviledged enough that you can make money while at the World put a smile on and thank God you aren't at Burger King!

I do agree that minimum wage is not enough pay to make a living anymore. But, instead of yelling at WDW, work on the Federal Government to increase the wages. Inflation has risen way above minimum wage over the last 3 years. Still, if you agree to do a job, you should do it to the best of your ability and with a smile.:mickey:

[JPL]

A friendly reminder here let's keep the comments about the topic not individuals.

This is a topic that will have different opinions and they all should be respected and discussed.

[January-2007]

It's funny because I always seem to idealize the Magic Kingdom when I'm thinking about it, and how great it is, how much fun, how nice.... But when we go there something always goes terribly wrong, and it's 100% due to the Cast Members. Well.. mabye 90%, there are always those tourists giving their 10%....

It's both shocking and sad. We were in Tomorrowland getting a cream cheese pretzel before heading out of the park and a "CM" was yelling at everybody about how he was "off the clock" and not supposed to be there, blah blah blah. It's like, seriously? This is happening? He was telling this to everyone who would listen, just complaining all over the place. It was just so uncalled for.

There are nice CMs out there, trying to make people's days a little nicer, but too few seem to really care. I hope things improve.

[DizneyRox]

I could list many things that show the decline in the parks over the years, many will just dismiss them as little things, that really don't matter. I think however the "magic" WAS in the details, it was the unexpected, or the things you didn't even realize were missing that made the experience more magical.

For example, how many people remember ever seeing garbage trucks driving around property during the day? It happens now...

How many times can you remember groundskeeping tearing apart park planters during hours there were guests present? It happens now...

How many times have you seen a guests shoe clearly visible sitting inside an attraction set for a week! YES! A SHOE! I've seen it...

It really is all about the litle things, I never really thought much about the garbage trucks until I noticed them out in force a few years back. All that stuff used to be handled out of eyeshot/earshot of guests.

Frankly I'm not too concerned about the CM interactions. In all honesty, I have given in to the fact that they aren't going to be all that helpful most of the time anyway, so why bother. There are still a few and they are fairly easy to pick out. I enjoy talking to the good ones and go out of my way to make their day a little better as well, I know how hard it is to be on the top of your game all the time without much in terms of appreciation. The CMs are just making due with what they have. It's the WDC that's to blame for the lack of training, hours, pay, etc. And sadly, when the CMs suffer, everything else suffers as well.

When you're built your reputation on the details, and those start to slip. You're pretty much just like everyone else. And I feel that Disney has become just like everyone else. Instead of a leader, they are a follower.

[lyle21]

cm's don't really have that much to do w/ my vacation. there are bad ones and good ones. my mom remembers friendlier ones back in the 70's, but i was 5 years old so i don't remember. wdw employs a lot of people for very little money. they are going to get all kinds.

i do notice the little things, but mostly i notice the other guests. the crowds of pushy rude people are really starting to get to me. people like us who go often and plan are less likely to pose problems. we are here considering our actions and the consequences of those actions. we post questions about etiquette, we try to feel out what is right and what is wrong in a wdw setting. we want to be good guests w/ plans of action. less likely to stress out and more likey to smile, be polite, and be aware of others.

but w/ all the promotions i don't think disney is doing right by the frequent guest. it seems they are more interested in getting everyone there at least once and so we are surrounded by people who just don't get it. sometimes i want to shake some people. stop screaming at your kids, clean up after yourself, leave the F word at home, flush the toilet, don't urinate on the bushes, the 3:00 parade is at 3:00!!!! everyone seems so angry and rushed, intent on just getting "it" done.

disney will run the parks differently if the goal is to get everyone there once and most of the problems stem from this shift in priorities.

end of rant

i also hate what they have done to main street and skylardad made a good point about the EMH, never thought about that before.

[irish1967]

i do notice the little things, but mostly i notice the other guests. the crowds of pushy rude people are really starting to get to me. people like us who go often and plan are less likely to pose problems. we are here considering are actions and the consequences of those actions. we post questions about etiquette, we try to feel out what is right and what is wrong in a wdw setting. we want to be good guests w/ plans of action. less likely to stress out and more likey to smile, be polite, and be aware of others.

but w/ all the promotions i don't think disney is doing right by the frequent guest. it seems they are more interested in getting everyone there at least once and so we are surrounded by people who just don't get it. sometimes i want to shake some people. stop screaming at your kids, clean up after yourself, leave the F word at home, flush the toilet, don't urinate on the bushes, the 3:00 parade is at 3:00!!!! everyone seems so angry and rushed, intent on just getting "it" done.



This was EXACTLY what I thought when I read the original post (but lyle you stated it much more eloquently than I would have) I think the spiral downward has more to do with the way guests treat the CMs than the quality of the CMs.

It is unfortunate, because ultimately a CM that reaches the end of his/her rope will probably do so over something small - when if fact it is really the result of some really nasty treatment from earlier guests.

For example, we were waiting to check in at Chef Mickey's for breakfast during one of our visits. The people in front of us (guests at the CR - I overheard a comment about running back up to the room for something) were almost an hour late for their ADR (they had decided to sleep in and told the hostess that). The mother started yelling at the hostess when she was told that they would have to wait 15 or 20 minutes for a table. Huh? I wanted to say "lady, you're lucky you getting a table at all!" Anyway, my point is - this happened at 8:00 in the morning - how many other times during the day was she subjected to similar treatment?

(I can't tell you how many times I yelled at my DH for something idiotic after a trying day when my children were toddlers.)