Effect of Four Seasons

[GrumpyFan]

Recently I was trying to convince someone who is planning a trip, to stay on property and we started discussing the prices of Disney Deluxe resorts. Comments were made about how Diseny's Deluxe resorts really aren't "Deluxe/Luxury" when compared to other 4-star resorts, yet the prices are higher (we've all heard this before).

Anyway, it got me to wondering about the new Four Seasons that will be built on property and what effect it will have on Disney's resorts? Will the Four Seasons be higher priced than the Deluxe hotels? Will the Deluxe hotels be reduced in price to make way for a true "Deluxe" priced in the existing Deluxe price range? I would assume that the Four Seasons will be priced higher than any of the existing Deluxe's, but how much more?

[kakn7294]

I'm betting the Four Seasons resort will either cost less or be on par with Disney's resort pricing and the accomodations will probably be plusher and larger for the price. However, the 3 big things that Disney has that any other resort does not are the feeling of being immersed in the magic 24/7, the transportation both around property and DME, and the extras like the dining plan and EMHs. I agree that Disney's Deluxe accomodations really aren't deluxe when compared to many other resorts of the same price level, but people are still willing to pay the prices to stay there - and I would be among them if I had the means!

[Bruegge]

I've always thought of Grand Floridian being a "luxury" resort.

It's not as "formal" as say a Ritz-Carlton but it's wonderful. Even the "resort" Ritz's are less formal than the city center locations (i.e Amelia Island vs San Francisco)

While I hope (but don't expect) prices to fall at the Deluxes.. I think the 4 Seasons will just add another "top shelf" choice to the mix.

I'm not sure what ammenities the 4 seasons will have (I'm sure the info is here somewhere) but unless they have a lake and a monorail .... I'll be happy staying at Poly or GF till I die....

Scott

[Spaceship Tigger]

I'm betting the Four Seasons resort will either cost less or be on par with Disney's resort pricing and the accomodations will probably be plusher and larger for the price.


I agree - the new hotel will not have the benefits that the Disney deluxes give guests for staying on property. So it will have to be much nicer and offer more of its own ameneties to compete (or be available at a lower price).

[MOJoe]

I say the 4 Seasons will fill a niche that is not served by Disney. It will provide true luxury accomodations, within Disney property, at comparable pricing.
Those of us looking for this type of experience, well, you know who you are! :cool:

[BrerGnat]

Disney's Deluxe resort pricing is based on real estate...i.e. Location, Location, Location. There's not that much in the rooms that can be considered "deluxe". Hopefully this will change after the new linens upgrade. As they stand now, the actual ROOMS are on par with Hilton, Marriot, etc (but smaller).

Disney will continue to charge the same or more for their Deluxe accommodations because they offer a convenience to the parks that even the Ritz cannot compete with (as well as offering all the other "perks" of staying @ a Disney resort).

[chasgooses]

Right now, there is no real true luxury resort close enough to the Disney property to really compete with the Disney Deluxes. The Ritz is the only hotel in the Orlando area that comes close to the quality of a Four Seasons, but that is way too far away to be an effective competitor. There are the Swan and Dolphin resorts, which manage to compete by being a little nicer and charging a lot less for pretty much the same perks. If the Four Seasons comes in anywhere near the price of the non-lodge Deluxes, it is going to be an eye-opener for many people. A lot of people will and should question why they are being made to pay the same rate as they would at a Four Seasons that is almost as close to the parks and offers some of the same perks (if they got EMH and free transportation like the Swan and Dolphin) for a hotel that is no better than a Hilton/Marriott (the GF is at best like a nice Westin, but it is not a true luxury resort). Disney will have some serious justification to do on its overpriced rooms.

Based on the maps I have seen, the Four Seasons is not much more isolated than the AKL, which manages to charge pretty high rates (yes it's slightly less than the other Deluxes, but the rooms are also smaller). While taking the monorail/boat to some of the parks can be fun, I am not so sure that their value overrides the much better hotel quality a Four Seasons would offer. All of the Deluxes require you to take a bus to at least two parks, if not more so its not like people wouldn't be taking buses somewhere. Also, imagine if the Four Seasons made up for their location by offering their own free transportation that got the same access as the Disney buses. I can guarantee you that bus transportation from the Four Seasons would be a lot more efficient, useful, and comfortable than Disney's.

I also don't buy the whole "it's not Disney owned, it doesn't have that Disney feel." I think the Swan and Dolphin manage to do a pretty good job approximating it (they have Disney touches throughout the hotels, offer character breakfasts, etc.). In terms of theme they aren't much less "themed" than the Contemporary or Grand Floridian. The Four Seasons wouldn't really be above following that example and bringing the Disney feel to their property. Also, say what you will about Disney resorts, but the Four Seasons is, hands down, the best hotel chain at dealing with children I have ever seen in my life. They almost treat kids at their hotels better than they do adults and have all sorts of fun perks you wouldn't believe. If they can do that in hotels that aren't located in family vacation destinations, imagine what it will be like at a resort on Disney property.

While there are those that pay for the Deluxes just because of the location and being immersed in the magic. I bet even more stay there simply because they are the nicest places to stay on the Disney property. They know they aren't perfect and they may question paying $350-$600 for the privlege of staying at them, but they do it because there is no alternative available. These sort of guests are generally the most lucrative for Disney. They have a lot of disposable income and will spend tons of money on property. These are the people that will go to the Four Seasons in droves. At the rates Disney charges for their Deluxes, people expect a lot. Right now, Disney can justify them with the fact that they have a monopoly on the on-property hotels. When the Four Seasons opens, they will either have to lower their rates or enhance the quality of their properties to compete.

[DizneyRox]

You can bet your bottom dollar Disney will NOT lower the prices of the hotels. I'm sure there is a contract between Disney and Four Seasons regarding room rates, etc.

If anything Four Seasons will proce similarly to Disney and you can choose between convenience and "perks". I'm guessing the Four Seasons will be priced more than a Disney Deluxe and will probably offer many of the "perks" that on-site guests enjoy. Think Swan/Dolphin and or Hilton on Hotel Blvd.

It's not unprecidented that Disney offer perks to other resorts. Actually, it could be part of a discount program between Disney and Four Seasons. In exchange for "perks" Disney employees may get discounted rooms, etc. There many such corporate arrangements.

[BrerGnat]

I agree that Disney will NOT lower their rates. That would be them admitting that they took advantage of people for all those years just because they could. And, we all know that is true, but a company like Disney would NEVER admit that sort of thing.

If anything, the Ritz will be higher priced BECAUSE it provides something that Disney does NOT...a TRUE Deluxe resort experience.

I would stay at the RItz over the GF any day. I think the GF is grossly overpriced for what it is. I have always wanted to try a Ritz hotel and putting one on Disney property is a sure fire way to get me to do so!

[Hammer]

While I agree that Disney will not lower their rates at the Deluxe resorts, I think you will see them not raise the rates. Also, I think you may see that more general public room specials will be offered targeting the Deluxe resorts. I think the Four Seasons will have some of the benefits of on-site properties, like the Hilton participates in EMH. If they aren't part of the WDW Transportation system, the Four Seasons will run their own bus transportation rather than be part of the Downtown Disney hotels bus system.

[TiggerRPh]

I suspect that the Four Seasons will probably be priced at a bit more than that of the Deluxe Resorts...after all it's on Disney Property.

[DizneyRox]

If they aren't part of the WDW Transportation system, the Four Seasons will run their own bus transportation rather than be part of the Downtown Disney hotels bus system.
That's probably going to be the biggest sticking point. I am going to guess they will be much the same way Swan/Dolphin are, unfortunately.

[DSOFCA]

Hi,
Any updates of the Four Seaons? Where is it going to be and what is it going to look like? An earlier post mentioned a map. Does anyone have a link to it?

[lockedoutlogic]

alright...i typed a more thorough evaluation...but IE shutdown on me...so here's the "short, short, version"

Here's what i believe to be in the works:

Four Seasons will take the "luxury" role away from the Grand...
why? because disney cannot run a luxury resort with the way they pool labor...it is actually not feasible by industry standards...even in the low cost south

after the four seasons is online...the Disney "deluxes" will be on a category below....maybe not in disney press releases...but in practical working terms...you can't run a first class hotel with minimum wage employees across the board and non-specific employment requirements...it simply can't be done.

and if anyone thinks that the Seasons is going to be the same or less than the existing deluxes...you're nuts....i would say that the Four Seasons is around 100 more per night to start than the grand....just a guess...remember that the principal owners of Four Seasons are a Saudi Prince and some guy named "gates" who was big in computers

so now what do we do with the Grand and the Poly?
They do happen to be the only Deluxes without DVC (after the contemp and assuming that yacht is strapped to Beach and a short iron shot away from Boardwalk)

what to do?

the poly will get the DVC treatment first...probably planning is underway....the Grand will follow

mark that down...I believe that there were two goals with the fours seasons:

1. Outsource the higher end clientele to avoid the headaches
2. Allow for more DVC integration into the two current "top of the line" locations


make sense?

[jillluvsdisney]

I agree that you are paying for the location (WDW), the proximity of you resort to a theme park and available modes of transportation.

I have stayed at the Fairmont in Chicago 3 times. That is a 4 star hotel. The rooms at Disney's deluxe (like the Poly) don't even compare.

To give some examples: instead of 2 desk chairs we had two swivel recliners in our room, we had 2 bathrobes, a stereo system and a seperate shower and tub. The linens and drapes were also a notch above also.

The hotel also provided the same amenities WDW does. 2 restaurants, 2 lounges , a sundries store, concierge and valet.

[DizneyRox]

The hotel also provided the same amenities WDW does. 2 restaurants, 2 lounges , a sundries store, concierge and valet.
Disney doesn't really have concierge, it's club level. Minor difference, but it's definitely not true concierge.

[lockedoutlogic]

Disney doesn't really have concierge, it's club level. Minor difference, but it's definitely not true concierge.

not even close...if they can't get you a table in a restaurant in your OWN hotel - where they work....then they have no business using the term