Is this legal? a rant.... long

Here we go again... · #1 08-05-2007, 05:43 AM

I have asked for a meeting with our corporate HR department for next week and need your opinion going in.

I went out on LOA in April to have knee surgery and it did not work. I was due back to work on May 12th but the doctor decided to do knee replacement on May 21st so she extended my LOA to August 1st. As you know, all went well and I am even losing weight.

Before I returned to work I went to the office and told my boss that I was planning to step down from a trainer to a pharmacy tech because I could not deal with the stress and long hours any more.

Now, here is the back ground....
Our company was bought out by another company in 2004. At that time I was working in a position in the district office making pretty good money. Since my position went away I was told that I could go any where in a store and my pay would not be cut. However, a trainer position came up and they offered it to me. I took it with the understanding that I would not get a pay increase... I was already making more money than all of the other trainers... no problem.

I have gone through a very stressful 3 years. I am hourly but have worked 45 to 55 hours a week and never got paid for my over time. I did it out of loyalty for the company. In those 3 years I have had 5 different bosses... they all quit or got fired. I have had to handle all of the problems of the district and just get by.

Fast forward to today...
My boss agrees to let me step down but asks me if I will be willing to still help her. I agree and she tells me that she is going to check on my pay. I was not worried because I was made a promise during the aquisition.
Well she was supposed to get back to me by monday, my return to work was Wednesday. I am still on partial dissability, working only 4 hours a day. My boss waited until I was back at work to come in and tell me that they are cutting my pay by $5.00 an hour! We got into a little disagreement but she would not budge. She told me that all of the people that made the promises are no longer with the company so it was too bad....

Now I am waiting to get a call from HR. If I lose this what do I do? I have some co-workers at the regional office that were here at the buy out so I have others that were told the same thing. Should I go after the back overtime money too? They just fired them DM that was making me work all of the ours and would not pay me.

I would appreciate any imput you could give me.
Thanks!

DizneyRox · #2 08-05-2007, 09:10 AM

Unless you got something in writing, I'm thinking you're going to be out of luck on this one. Getting the pay of one position and doing another doesn't make financial sense. One could argue that the additional pay is due to having to deal with the extra stress, etc.

The back pay issue is another story. All you'll need to produce is a record of you working those extra hours and you could make a case with the labor dept if your employer refuses to pay for those.

Remember though, once you put up a stink, don't be surprised if you start to get managed out of a job. It happens all the time... Show up for work late and it becomes an attendence problem and before you know it, you're looking for another job.

Just make sure you think it through before you act...

wdw_bound · #3 08-05-2007, 09:10 AM

Many moons ago, DH workder was a "management trainee" for a rental car company. He worked during regular business hours, but was also expected to cover nights and weekends, and help out when they were short. Way more than the 40 hours he was being paid for.

He left the company after about 18 months. About a year later, he got a letter from the Labor Department stating that the car place was being investigated, along with a survey about hours. It took about another year before he got a settlement check.

You are owed pay for hours worked, that is the law. Is there a record of actual hours worked? If so, you are in pretty good shape (although HR may try to bluff you with something like they were unapproved OT hours - politely stand your ground). Be aware, however, that it might take some time to be compensated.

If there is not a record of hours worked, it may take longer to fight for compensation, but could still be worthwhile. It might also get contentious.

As for the pay reduction, did you have a written contract? If not, they might be making the argurment that you changed positions voluntarily, and that change gives them the right to change your pay.

My advice is to talk to HR, see what they have to say, and if you don't like it, consult an attorney (without telling your employer that is your intention).

Here's some

that everything works out for you.

snifflesmcg · #4 08-05-2007, 09:22 AM

I agree with the other posters, if you don't have a written agreement, especially since it was you who change positions, it's going to be extremely hard to fight. They are going to ask you where your proof is.

HOWEVER, if you are NOT salary, it's highly ILLEGAL for you to work overtime and not get paid for it. Not only should you get straight time for those hours but I think you entitled to time and a half. I don't know exactly the laws on this one, a few years ago Pres Bush made it so employers don't have to pay you time and a half anymore in some cases. If you have your pay stubs, you may even have a lawsuit on your hands.

Good luck with everything.

LibertyTreeGal · #5 08-05-2007, 10:54 AM

It is legal -- no contract, no real and binding obligation on the part of the company. Sorry

You could contact EEOC and see what they have to say, but in the end we are talking about you spending money on lawyers while the company lawyers drag it on for as long as possible.

SallyfromDE · #6 08-05-2007, 11:06 AM

Are you a Work at Will state? If so, they can do whatever they want and you have no say. Why not just call your local labor board and ask them your questions. They can tell you if you can place a complaint or not.

SallyfromDE · #7 08-05-2007, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LibertyTreeGal

It is legal -- no contract, no real and binding obligation on the part of the company. Sorry

You could contact EEOC and see what they have to say, but in the end we are talking about you spending money on lawyers while the company lawyers drag it on for as long as possible.

In most cases, labor issues will not be touched by an attorney. You have to go to the labor board. A good example is what happened to my sister. She was fired for being pregnant. An attorney wouldn't touch it as it's a labor issue. She placed her complaint with the labor board and in a short time there was hearing and the company she worked for was found to be quilty. All my sister was awarded was $1200 in back medical expenses. She wasn't looking for large sums of money, just satisfaction that this company was in the wrong. She was happy with the outcome. And luckily she found temp work while she was pregnant. Personally, I think the company got off too light. What is to stop them from doing it to another pregnant woman? It is after all ILLEGAL!!

Jasper · #8 08-05-2007, 11:25 AM

I have been in the Human Resource profession for 15 years. From my experience I can tell you that on the issue of the pay cut the other posters are correct, since you don't have anything in writing and you are reducing your level of responsability they certainly can cut your pay.

As for the overtime issue, I would suggest that you go to the Department of Labor website and look up the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA). This is the piece of legislation that covers issues such as minimum wage, over time, and much more concerning pay.

What you need to look for once you get into the FLSA is for the section that covers exempt and nonexempt employees. These terms relate to those jobs that are considered to be exempt from having to be paid overtime and those who must be paid overtime.

Now, don't go into it expecting to find a list of jobs that are in one catagory or the other. For the vast majority of jobs you have to look at the various "tests" as they are called to determine where your job falls. After reading this section if you feel your job was nonexempt then you should certainly pursue it. Just be aware that there are many points that can be argued both ways so don't be surprised if your HR department shoots you down.

If you feel strongly that your job was nonexempt and you are bound and determined to get the back pay then be prepared to get a lawyer involved because most companies are not usually interested in giving in on topics like this.

Good luck!

snifflesmcg · #9 08-05-2007, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SallyfromDE

In most cases, labor issues will not be touched by an attorney. You have to go to the labor board. A good example is what happened to my sister. She was fired for being pregnant. An attorney wouldn't touch it as it's a labor issue. She placed her complaint with the labor board and in a short time there was hearing and the company she worked for was found to be quilty. All my sister was awarded was $1200 in back medical expenses. She wasn't looking for large sums of money, just satisfaction that this company was in the wrong. She was happy with the outcome. And luckily she found temp work while she was pregnant. Personally, I think the company got off too light. What is to stop them from doing it to another pregnant woman? It is after all ILLEGAL!!

That's discrimination and the company got off WAY too easily. It's sad how women are treated in the work force.....still.

ElenitaB · #10 08-05-2007, 12:36 PM

Another thing you might want to look at, Angel, is the fact that you have returned from a medical disability leave... even though you weren't gone that long, I believe that they are not obligated to give you the same job you had (which is good, in your case).

Good luck!

Here we go again... · #11 08-05-2007, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElenitaB

Another thing you might want to look at, Angel, is the fact that you have returned from a medical disability leave... even though you weren't gone that long, I believe that they are not obligated to give you the same job you had (which is good, in your case).

Good luck!

I think this is the biggest problem I am having... I am actually still on LOA. I know by law they do not have to give me the same position, but I do not think they can cut my pay while I am on LOA.
Grrrr.....

MsMin · #12 08-05-2007, 05:58 PM

Just sending some

for you. I know that Corp. can be so unfair and it's frustrating and many ppl are treated unfairly and though we have laws its so often hard to prove and to fight the big corps. I know in our state we do have lawyers that handle such cases but they can be expensive and the big guys keep you tied up in court for years.

just don't let them take any more away than they already have.

Jen C. · #13 08-05-2007, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SallyfromDE

In most cases, labor issues will not be touched by an attorney. You have to go to the labor board. A good example is what happened to my sister. She was fired for being pregnant. An attorney wouldn't touch it as it's a labor issue. She placed her complaint with the labor board and in a short time there was hearing and the company she worked for was found to be quilty. All my sister was awarded was $1200 in back medical expenses. She wasn't looking for large sums of money, just satisfaction that this company was in the wrong. She was happy with the outcome. And luckily she found temp work while she was pregnant. Personally, I think the company got off too light. What is to stop them from doing it to another pregnant woman? It is after all ILLEGAL!!

There are attorney's who specialize in rights of employees. My dad is one of them There is an organization called NELA~National Employment Lawyers Association. My father only takes labor law cases. Even here in Michigan~an "at will" state, he has a full list of clients, and a winning record, and has been practicing over 35 years. With labor issues, see an attorney who specializes in the field. Especially the pregnancy discrimination ~without a doubt~a very strong case.

Ian · #14 08-06-2007, 04:52 PM

You're in a lose/lose position, quite honestly. No, there's nothing you can do about the pay cut and yes, you could go after the back OT, but you'd just be cutting off your nose to spite your face.

As someone else already said, you'll end up being labelled as a troublemaker and ultimately put yourself out of a job.

The best advice I have for you is to accept their terms and stay there until you can find a new job that suits you.

Ed · #15 08-06-2007, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Here we go again...

...I am hourly but have worked 45 to 55 hours a week and never got paid for my over time. I did it out of loyalty for the company. ...They just fired them DM that was making me work all of the ours and would not pay me.

Angel, these excerpts from your original post tend to make your case a little weaker. On the one hand, you say that you worked the extra hours out of loyalty, but later you say that the district manager "was MAKING ME work...and would not pay me." I fully understand working some overtime without claiming overtime - - I do it almost every week - - out of a certain sense of loyalty, but if the DM was REQUIRING you to work the extra hours, he/she had the responsibility to ensure that you were paid for those hours. I suspect you would have a very tough time trying to prove a claim for the unpaid overtime unless you have very comprehensive documentation - - memos, e-mails, pay stubs, copies of time tickets/cards, etc.

Moral of the story: If you work in a job where you are entitled to overtime pay, be prepared to demand that you be paid for those hours. Keep records, especially if they clearly establish that you requested overtime pay but were denied. The other side of the coin is that if you choose to work extra hours without compensation, be prepared to live with the consequences of your choice, however well-intentioned.

At this point, I would definitely suggest you contact the State or Federal Department of Labor for advice. A brief phone call or meeting may well point you in the right direction, to either (1) pursue the matter further, or (2) put it behind you and learn from the experience.

Here we go again... · #16 08-06-2007, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TiggTigg5

Angel, these excerpts from your original post tend to make your case a little weaker. On the one hand, you say that you worked the extra hours out of loyalty, but later you say that the district manager "was MAKING ME work...and would not pay me." I fully understand working some overtime without claiming overtime - - I do it almost every week - - out of a certain sense of loyalty, but if the DM was REQUIRING you to work the extra hours, he/she had the responsibility to ensure that you were paid for those hours. I suspect you would have a very tough time trying to prove a claim for the unpaid overtime unless you have very comprehensive documentation - - memos, e-mails, pay stubs, copies of time tickets/cards, etc.

Moral of the story: If you work in a job where you are entitled to overtime pay, be prepared to demand that you be paid for those hours. Keep records, especially if they clearly establish that you requested overtime pay but were denied. The other side of the coin is that if you choose to work extra hours without compensation, be prepared to live with the consequences of your choice, however well-intentioned.

At this point, I would definitely suggest you contact the State or Federal Department of Labor for advice. A brief phone call or meeting may well point you in the right direction, to either (1) pursue the matter further, or (2) put it behind you and learn from the experience.

That is the hard part. I have my calendar showing where I was and when I was there.
There is a long story behind the "loyalty" thing and the part about having to to work so much overtime.
I was very loyal to previous supervisors and would have worked many overtime hours for them. They were not allowed to pay overtime to anyone. (company policy) We did what we had to do to get the job done. It is all fine and good when you have someone that treats you well and works with you when you want to take and unscheduled Disney trip.

Then we have the new people. They come in and make you work longer hours and give nothing in return. To be told that you have to do it and having your job threatened if you do not sure takes the loyalty out of the picture.

There is one good thing though... I can document everywhere I was and when I was there. The best part... all of our stores have cameras... there is proof that I was there.

PAYROLL PRINCESS · #17 08-07-2007, 06:43 PM

If you were out on an FMLA (family medical leave act) and it is 12 weeks or less since you went out (total for a 12 month period) they HAVE to reinstate you to the same or similar position at the EXACT same rate of pay you were at when you went out on the FMLA. If it is more than 12 weeks, they don't have to honor this FEDERAL guideline.

gueli · #18 08-11-2007, 02:29 AM

do contact your labor board if it company policy to have you/others work OT without compensating for it.
In NY, I had an issue with an employer, the Labor board started an inquiry, anonomously, and any/all employees who were owed OT pay were given it. The company decided not to fight, for a variety of reasons- including that their lawers fees would raise the cost of the payout.
You may not be cutting off your nose to spite your face.
good luck