Increase in Ticket Prices, Parking, and AP's

[DizneyFreak2002]

Is there a point where Disney will be just to big for itself (talking more the Theme Parks/Resorts areas) are they there now or close to it or can they really not be to big for themselves?

I think WDW is already too big for its britches...

Most of the problems with the size is they do not staff accordingly... Poor staffing numbers leads to more stress on the CMs... Leads to less than stellar service Disney is known for...

Wait until the DVC bust happens... And it will... DVC is becoming too saturated... The demand is waning... And not just that but DVC members, you know those visitors who Disney thought would spend every day in the parks or on property spending money, are NOT doing that... More and more DVC members are going off property to dine, to visit more local attractions and night spots... And, gasp, Universal... I know, come October of this year, Disney may see my face checking into BLT and SSR, but they won't be getting one dime from me, not in their restaurants or in their theme parks... But guess where my hard earned money WILL be spent?? Up the road on I-4 and in other restaurants off site...

[DizneyFreak2002]

what is to keep me coming back? The memories and excitement we once experienced here?

This is what WDW is relying on.. past experience... past magical moments... Nostalgia.. But that only goes so far... People aren't as dumb as they sound half the time... They will wake up one day and say WDW is just not worth the cost and stress you will be under trying to book that "magical" vacation... When that happens? Dunno... But they are getting dangerously close...

Or is it me? Am I jaded? I just find myself not getting excited about it. I am excited about the vacation, excited about my family time, but not wanting to spend any more than I absolutely have to.

Jaded? no... You are a realist... You are seeing exactly what I have been posting for a while now... You are seeing the decline in offerings but the jacking of the prices... For what? Remember, something that is expensive is supposed to have the perception of being top notch... While WDW is not in the gutters, the place has seen a decline in service and product, and for sure does not justify huge increases....

I'm having dejavu from this thread about this time last year. Just sayin.

And if I'm paying a premium, I expect premium. The end. Will I still go? Am I going again in January? Yes. Will we eventually start spending more time at the room and less in the parks, probably. Time will tell. But disney should think better than to expect us to pay top dollar for subpar service. And lately, not to be a Debbie downer, but while I still love the world and everything involved, it's starting to be stagnant. Take the money from these increases and put it to good use, my two cents.

There is a theme park, well 2 actually, giving the guest their bang for their buck, with improved, actually, much improved service and state of the art rides, attractions, expansions... You know, things you expect from a theme park... not tracking devices and MOUSE ARREST bands Lindsay Lohan would feel at home in...

[Wayne]

WDW lost me and my family a few years ago and I've been a regular guest since 1978. The decline started with Eisner's insistence to overbuild onsite lodging (including DVC) instead of focusing on show in the parks. For several years now, the steady increases in pricing coupled with the lack of any real updating and the failure to maintain what they already had has lowered the value to me. As a former theme park professional, I used to be able to visit Disney and feel like I was in another place. The last time I was there, there were so many little things that were neglected that I couldn't enjoy my visit.

Bottom line for me is this, the current pricing structure greatly exceeds the value that I see in the Disney experience as it exists today. And with the current attitudes at the corporate level, I don't see that changing anytime soon.

[DizneyRox]

... And not just that but DVC members, you know those visitors who Disney thought would spend every day in the parks or on property spending money, are NOT doing that... More and more DVC members are going off property to dine, to visit more local attractions and night spots... And, gasp, Universal... I know, come October of this year, Disney may see my face checking into BLT and SSR, but they won't be getting one dime from me, not in their restaurants or in their theme parks... But guess where my hard earned money WILL be spent?? Up the road on I-4 and in other restaurants off site...

That's the plan in July... Using our DVC points for accommodations, but we're visiting Universal. It's been since we got married (incidentally at the wedding pavillion) that we have been to USF/IOA. We're quite looking forward to it.

[dnickels]

The TEA report that was out today showed 2.2-2.3% attendance growth at each of the 4 Florida parks so the price increases aren't pushing too many away.

I think people like DisneyRox, etc. are in the minority as far as actually putting their money where their mouth is so to speak. You could probably go back through the price increase threads since the inception of intercot and find many "that's it I'm done" or "If they keep doing this I'm done" posts from people who interestingly keep adding upcoming or recent trips in their sig lines. A lot of folks are just plain Disney addicts, they'll complain, but go back, they'll swear off Disney and then post a new thread less than 48 hrs later talking about the great deal they got to go back to Disney (saw that actual scenario on here awhile back).

I realize they have reached that breaking point for some people, but the attendance numbers in the aggregate show that they haven't reached it on a large scale yet so I imagine we'll continue to see prices rise faster than inflation. The only way that changes if enough people take their $$ elsewhere.

[Mendelson]

dnickels, you clearly don't understand. It's the worst place on the planet, which is exactly why people post on here multiple times a day. To remind us of that fact!

[ChipNDale79]

The TEA report that was out today showed 2.2-2.3% attendance growth at each of the 4 Florida parks so the price increases aren't pushing too many away.

What's not noted here is that both Universal parks in Orlando grew more by percentage points than all 4 of the WDW parks, in a few years with all the attractions that Universal is adding, I believe both Universal parks will surpass either or both of DHS and DAK in attendance.

How do you fix that problem? It's pretty simple, take a look at DCA, a 22% growth doesn't lie. Radiator springs is a major success. I'm not saying that's what they should do, personally I think WDW should focus on Star Wars, and if they do, I think you'll see a lot less complaining from us.

I'm not sure I agree that this D23 is make it or break it for WDW, but I do think we'll find out what priority level DHS is and if they are really ok with it's current state.

[BhamWriter]

The TEA report that was out today showed 2.2-2.3% attendance growth at each of the 4 Florida parks so the price increases aren't pushing too many away....

I realize they have reached that breaking point for some people, but the attendance numbers in the aggregate show that they haven't reached it on a large scale yet so I imagine we'll continue to see prices rise faster than inflation. The only way that changes if enough people take their $$ elsewhere.

Attendance may be up, but I'd like to see statistics for how many are first-time guests or guests who are at WDW for the first time in many years vice how many are regular attendees. Is the percentage going up for multiple-repeat visitors? If the number of one-and-done guests increases, and the number of regulars decreases, then Disney will have to attract more and more first-time guests, perhaps eventually reaching a tipping point leading to declines rather than increases.

There are people who will go to WDW no matter what, at least, until they can no longer afford it. But there are many who DO reach a point of no return (literally) or who simply lose interest. Lack of belief that Disney represents value will add to that latter category.

[Dulcee]

Sure Universal attendance (IOA) increased in 2012 to a whopping 7.9 million, which is a 4% increase over 2011. I'd imagine it has a huge amount to do with the Harry Potter World.

But, it doesn't even begin to compete with the Magic Kingdom's 126 million. It only just begins to compete with HS 9.9 million. And the 6 million seen by Universal Studios pales even more in comparison.

I think as a few people above said, a lot of people say thats it I'm done but the reality is 1) many of you go back and 2) you aren't the bulk of Disney's guests. At the end of the day the vast majority of disney's profit come from the once or twice in a lifetime trips. Many are also coming from overseas where these prices don't price them out.

Plus with the expected opening of Shanghai Disney in a few more years Disney as a whole will continue to show growth and hold the number one position without much issue.

[Tekneek]

I don't think anybody is really saying that WDW is a terrible place to be, or that Disney is terrible. Many are saying that it isn't what it used to be, they know it, and they don't like it. Predominantly first-time guests have a great time. They have no other Disney experience to compare it to. Many newcomers probably have little or no idea how it used to be, and so they don't compare Disney to themselves. The toughest competitor Disney still has is themselves. The harshest critics of Disney that I know are those that have been fans the longest and appear to get more and more ambivalent, even apathetic, about the company (and WDW) as time goes by.

Unless we're just amazed and blown away on our next trip, I can't see us going back again. If we decide, ultimately, that we want to maintain the tradition of each child being able to celebrate a birthday at WDW, we will probably go back once over the next 6 to 9 years. We certainly haven't made up our minds on that yet either. She's only 6 months old at the moment, so that gives us a long time to decide.

[minnie04]

How do you fix that problem? It's pretty simple, take a look at DCA, a 22% growth doesn't lie. Radiator springs is a major success.

That's what I have been saying. They should close down the speedway and make that whole area about Cars. The kids would love it. I have to say the whole 'Fantasyland" is not cutting it. I would think when the new roller coaster opens it might be really good something new, but I thought that area was going to be way bigger then it is. Not a fan, but I know the little ones like the Mermaid and Belle attractions. My question is WHY beauty and the beast? And did they really need another restaurant in the park. To me it’s a waste of space. I thought that area was going to be all about the Princess’s is there something I missed. I think it would have been better to leave 20,000’s leagues and make that into a mermaid under water ride or Nemo.

[TheVBs]

We typically go every other year for 9 or 10 days. We usually have one waterpark day and we no longer do park hoppers. So, overall, we'll likely feel less impact from the price increase.

However, you know who I think this really drives away the most? The families that have never been to WDW, but would like to just get a taste of it for one day to see if they like it. If you've never been there and you're not sure you'll like it you might want to just go to the MK for one day and see what it's like before you make more of a commitment. My b.i.l. and his family did this. Obviously they hated it because they spent so much money on just one day, then tried to cram everything in and were absolutely exhausted.

We'd like to try Universal, but are not ready to commit a lot of time and money. If we wanted to just spend one day and go to one park, that's over $350 just to get in. So far, we haven't been willing to spend that much on one day. Ditto with Legoland, which would be $300 just to get in. And then what if we didn't enjoy it? It's a hard leap to make.

As far as the magic and the value goes, that's always going to be an individual opinion. We continue to have really wonderful trips there and have loved every one. We've had magic on every trip. If that changes, or we can't afford to go for some reason, that's when we simply make a different choice. Only you can decide where your money goes.

[Tekneek]

The thing about Universal is that you can buy that FlexTicket and for 14 days you can go to the Universal parks, the Sea World parks, and Wet n' Wild. So, let's say you're going to be in town for two weeks, you can go to 1 of 5 parks each day at a cost of about $20 a day including taxes. Spend around $24 a day and you can add Busch Gardens Tampa into that park rotation.

That's a deal that Disney doesn't even try to compete with, and one we will probably take advantage of in a future non-Disney vacation.

A lot of people can't take advantage of it because of time, but if you had transportation and time, it is a strong one to consider.

[DVC2004]

The thing about Universal is that you can buy that FlexTicket and for 14 days you can go to the Universal parks, the Sea World parks, and Wet n' Wild. So, let's say you're going to be in town for two weeks, you can go to 1 of 5 parks each day at a cost of about $20 a day including taxes. Spend around $24 a day and you can add Busch Gardens Tampa into that park rotation.

That's a deal that Disney that doesn't even try to compete with, and one we will probably take advantage of in a future non-Disney vacation.

Very good point! We have down this before and added Busch Gardens. You certainly can get alot for your money doing this.

[DizneyFreak2002]

I don't think anybody is really saying that WDW is a terrible place to be, or that Disney is terrible. Many are saying that it isn't what it used to be, they know it, and they don't like it. Predominantly first-time guests have a great time. They have no other Disney experience to compare it to. Many newcomers probably have little or no idea how it used to be, and so they don't compare Disney to themselves. The toughest competitor Disney still has is themselves. The harshest critics of Disney that I know are those that have been fans the longest and appear to get more and more ambivalent, even apathetic, about the company (and WDW) as time goes by.

Unless we're just amazed and blown away on our next trip, I can't see us going back again. If we decide, ultimately, that we want to maintain the tradition of each child being able to celebrate a birthday at WDW, we will probably go back once over the next 6 to 9 years. We certainly haven't made up our minds on that yet either. She's only 6 months old at the moment, so that gives us a long time to decide.

This, 1000 times this...

I love the people who flock to the site to try to bash people who actually see a decline... Then they get mad when they are called dusters... There is no denying, for the last 10 years or more, WDW has been in decline in service and product... There is no denying many attractions are NOT show ready... There is no denying many entertainment offerings were cut without replacements... That is a decline in product...

Maintenance has been poor... Decline in product... many CMs today have nasty attitudes... Decline in service...

I can only speak for myself but I always mean what I say... When I say I won't be back until they WOW me again, I mean it... I'll be in Orlando in October... Not one day planned for WDW... Not even a restaurant... Nothing... Universal is getting my hard earned money since they are working harder for it... Disney is resting on laurels and not working for anything... They just EXPECT it... So I stick to my word... Maybe others don't, but I don't speak for them, they have to speak for themselves...

Again, WOW me Disney... WOW me like you used to WOW people...

I' glad Tek understands... We are all fans and only want to see the best from Disney... Hey, Disney held themselves to a higher standard... We need to keep holding them to that standard... Lowest common denominator does not work for me like it works for some other WDW fans...

[TheVBs]

Thanks for that info Tekneek! If we're ever in that situation we will definitely look into that pass. Usually, the scenario is that we're going down to see family (on a non-Disney trip) and would really just like to take one day to get a taste of Universal to see what we think. But just a day is cost prohibitive.

DizneyFreak, I hope that my post didn't make you feel that I was dismissive of your opinion. I only wanted to express our own trip experiences. I don't doubt that others have experienced things that disappoint them.

[DizneyFreak2002]

DizneyFreak, I hope that my post didn't make you feel that I was dismissive of your opinion. I only wanted to express our own trip experiences. I don't doubt that others have experienced things that disappoint them.

Not at all.. I enjoy other people's opinions, especially when they are honest... Just too many people defend Disney at all costs without even putting any thought behind it... It's Disney so therefore it is perfect mentality has allowed TDO to cut things left and right in the parks... That was never the Disney way...

I never said the place wasn't fun, and I seriously hold nothing against people who do enjoy it... I'm glad they do.. I just simply point out how there has been a steady decline in the place that is charging extraordinary amounts of money... I just believe in holding Disney to their own standards (which have been set extremely high)... They no longer do, at least in WDW...

People obviously see value... I don't... I don't hold grudges against people who want to visit... Have fun! But, I no longer see the value... I don't think WDW is worth the price of admission anymore... not until they WOW me again... I was there a few years ago, felt the parks are too stagnant.. Nothing new... Did that, done that, not going back... However, I was WOW'd by the theme park up the road... And their plan is something new every year for the next 10 years while we wait for anything from Disney... Universal will be a completely different park by time Disney gets around to opening ANYTHING, including Avatar which is now 2 years since the announcement and not one piece of concept art or any information/construction... See where my money is going? New and exciting, not the same old, same old..

That is why I said this D23 will be extremely important to WDW... The attendance won't always be carried by foreigners, especially when the U.S. dollar gains in value and exchange rates do not benefit the foreign traveler...

I like you VB... Keep posting your excellent and fun to read posts!

I do want to add one thing: We are ALL fans here.. Just some of us want to see Disney be the best, others accept any garbage Disney throws at them... The other difference? Those of us who hold Disney to the Disney standard are growing in numbers and getting a larger voice...

[Jared]

Blah. Ticket increases. Whatever. The ticket prices will increase every summer for the rest of our lives, and that's just the reality of it. Accept it. It won't change. The same goes for Universal. If eventually they price you out, you'll have to stop going. That stinks, but it's life. It's where we are.

I still go to Disney. I still buy an annual pass. I still think it's worth it. People might call me a "pixie-duster," but I don't think that would be fair. I have a pretty good sense of the state of the parks. I continue to go because they continue to make me happy -- stagnant or not.

There is a perception in some corners of the fan community that Disney is engaged in some sort of conspiracy -- that they have intentionally decided to sabotage the parks and make us unhappy. That isn't the case. Disney behaves in the way that it behaves because it is still making insane amounts of money. For all of our talk about market share and declining by degrees and fear in the halls of Burbank, let's face it: Disney still rules Orlando. Universal isn't making nearly of a dent as perhaps some think it is. I guarantee to you that Disney would react if they felt a threat to their business. I guarantee. They still don't think it's necessary.

So if you think it's no longer worth it to your family, stop going. If enough people agree, things will change. I want to Disney return to its former glory, too -- and yet I enable the problem. What does that say about the current state of affairs?

[Mendelson]

Many are saying that it isn't what it used to be, they know it, and they don't like it.

That's certainly what some are saying, and with justification.

I was more referring to people who apparently have reached that point and then continued on, developing what comes across as an odd fan-hostility toward WDW. There are people who post frequently and with every single comment are aggressively and unremittingly negative. If they looked back through their last 100 posts and absorbed the tone of those comments in the aggregate, it might surprise them. But maybe not.

There is a tinge of schadenfreude anytime they hear of someone having a bad experience, they spin good news as bad, and they set up a strawman argument about people who post on here who think Disney can do no wrong (I have personally encountered very, very, very few of those people on Intercot).

This is a message board and there's room for all of that and I understand that what's really driving it is a long-ago deep love for WDW and a wish for it to return to a (perhaps overly romanticized and never actually realized) wonderful state.

I should say that I usually find their posts very entertaining, and sometime even informative.

[Mendelson]

There is a perception in some corners of the fan community that Disney is engaged in some sort of conspiracy -- that they have intentionally decided to sabotage the parks and make us unhappy.

Fascinating.

And what do such people say is the business decision behind this?