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  1. #1
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    Default Mark McGwire Used Steroids?

    This just in from yesterday. Mark McGwire admitted using steroids during his baseball career. No way! It seems that before taking a job in baseball must mean you have to clear your name of all wrong doings.

    First let me say, Mark why did it take so long? Blame your attorney. Ok fine, it took all these years to finally realize that it was wrong?

    Oh by the way, your reasoning for steroid usage, doing it for the fans, help recovery, and only HGH a couple of times. Yeah whatever. The only thing that is more offensive is Bud Selig announcing the end of the Steroid Era.

    Psst, Bud all this happened when you were the Commissioner. Be thankful nobody else noticed. These steroid guys saved your job. You should embrace them.

    Next we'll be told Sammy Sosa and Barry Bonds used steroids.
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  3. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by indytraveler View Post
    Next we'll be told Sammy Sosa and Barry Bonds used steroids.
    NO!

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  4. #3
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    This is too funny. Looking at them, if you could not tell they were on Steroids, you'd have to be a vegetable.

    For Barry Bonds, look at the movie Rookie of the Year. He weighed about 175lbs soaking wet. He put on 50lbs of solid muscle and all of a sudden started hitting 70+ HRs? Look at his stats. Players don't all of a sudden start becoming power hitters. It is a swing that they are born with. It is not something that can be taught. If it could, then every player would have it. His HR total started to spike in 1992, the year I bet he started to "juice" himself up. Mark McGwire "juiced" early in his career.

    Bonds, McGwire, Sosa, and others should all have their stats zeroed out in MLB books. They should be removed as players and blacklisted. These people are cheaters and MLB supports it and endorses the behavior. if they do not endorse it, as owners of the stats, why do they keep them?
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  5. #4
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    Cool

    Re: the records books, here's my take on it ...

    If you know for certain, either through test results or his own admission, that a guy used PED's then absolutely I think all his stats should be stricken from the record book. ALL of them.

    I mean look ... there's plenty precedent for it. The NCAA wipes out entire team seasons if they're caught cheating. The IOC takes away Olympic gold medals if people are caught cheating. Track and field athletes are stripped of their medals if they're caught doping or whatever. It's not like this would be some line that has never been crossed.

    If Pete Rose is banned from baseball for life for gambling on the game (which did not have a direct influence on the outcome of games) then how in the world are these guys not subject to the same kinds of punishments????

    And before anyone says, "Well it wasn't against the rules when they did it!" it wasn't against the written rules, but I'm sure there are plenty of other things that aren't in the baseball rules that are still obviously not allowed! For example, it probably doesn't say "Thou shalt not pull a gun and shoot your teammate if he drops a fly ball" but I'm fairly certain everyone knows you can't do it!
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  6. #5
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    Talking


    No way !
    you mean Mark McGwire,Sammy Sosa and Barry Bonds all used steroids.
    Oh sure now you are going to say Jose Canseco told us all about it .
    He did ?
    did bud selig

    ???

    this almost falls under the Darwin Awards. Too bad none of them tried playing russian roulette with a semi-automatic... (just kidding- I do not want them to have any violence perpetrated on themselves or anyone else- it just a joke- although some yaahoo actually did play russian roulette with a semi-automatic... )

  7. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    Re: the records books, here's my take on it ...

    If you know for certain, either through test results or his own admission, that a guy used PED's then absolutely I think all his stats should be stricken from the record book. ALL of them.

    I mean look ... there's plenty precedent for it. The NCAA wipes out entire team seasons if they're caught cheating. The IOC takes away Olympic gold medals if people are caught cheating. Track and field athletes are stripped of their medals if they're caught doping or whatever. It's not like this would be some line that has never been crossed.

    If Pete Rose is banned from baseball for life for gambling on the game (which did not have a direct influence on the outcome of games) then how in the world are these guys not subject to the same kinds of punishments????

    And before anyone says, "Well it wasn't against the rules when they did it!" it wasn't against the written rules, but I'm sure there are plenty of other things that aren't in the baseball rules that are still obviously not allowed! For example, it probably doesn't say "Thou shalt not pull a gun and shoot your teammate if he drops a fly ball" but I'm fairly certain everyone knows you can't do it!
    I disagree. What if Bonds admits it (which I think he will to minimize jail time) but Sosa never does. Then Sosa gets to keep his 66 homers stand as the record? Not fair. And using your last statement as an example, wrong yes, but if a player were to shoot another player, would their records be erased? I don't think so.
    Jeff

  8. #7
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    Did this admission surprise anyone?

    I agree with Ian that the record books should be stricken clean for those who are confirmed steroid users.

    As a fan, I feel cheated. The year McGuire broke the record was very magical and I remember going out of my way every chance I had to watch the Cards play. Quite simply it was awesome only to find out later it was a sham. The home run records stood for a long time. In a short time span we had three players who all were able to break probably the most coveted record in all of sports that stood for decades. Without steroids could any of the three even come close? No one will ever know but I personally doubt it. Now that MLB tests for steroid use there has been no one to give the records a serious run and there never may be. This hurts the integrity of the league and the records.

    As for McGuire admitting he used, good for him to come clean but in my opinion it's to late and doesn't forgive him of his actions.
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  9. #8
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    While there is precedent for some sports, there isn't for the big 4 sports. Guys who were found in the NFL to have used steriods haven't had any of there records erased. People still think Merriman is so great and you can't tell me he hasn't found a way to hide his steriod use. Once a guy is caught, I will be suspicious of him forever.

    Look, I don't see Bonds admitting his use, as I don't see him wanting to work in baseball like McGwire. Bonds is just going to live off his millions.

    Regarding Rose, he broke a rule that has been in place for over a century. If you bet on baseball, even if it isn't your team, you are banned if you get caught. End of story and every player knows it. I have absolutely no sympathy for him.

    His records are not erased from the books however as he still holds the hits record.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scar View Post
    I disagree. What if Bonds admits it (which I think he will to minimize jail time) but Sosa never does. Then Sosa gets to keep his 66 homers stand as the record? Not fair. And using your last statement as an example, wrong yes, but if a player were to shoot another player, would their records be erased? I don't think so.
    Oh well. Happens every day. There are tons of guilty people walking around in the world who, for whatever reason, weren't able to be convicted of their crimes.

    But when you're convicted, you're punished. Period. Fair? Maybe not. Reality? Absolutely.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hammer View Post
    While there is precedent for some sports, there isn't for the big 4 sports. Guys who were found in the NFL to have used steriods haven't had any of there records erased. People still think Merriman is so great and you can't tell me he hasn't found a way to hide his steriod use. Once a guy is caught, I will be suspicious of him forever.

    Look, I don't see Bonds admitting his use, as I don't see him wanting to work in baseball like McGwire. Bonds is just going to live off his millions.

    Regarding Rose, he broke a rule that has been in place for over a century. If you bet on baseball, even if it isn't your team, you are banned if you get caught. End of story and every player knows it. I have absolutely no sympathy for him.

    His records are not erased from the books however as he still holds the hits record.
    Rose shouldn't have his records erased, because A. he gambled as a manager and not a player and B. he didn't cheat like these guys did.

    Just because none of the big four have ever done it, doesn't make it right. I'm actually surprised that none of them have, really. I think it shows how squishy we've allowed morality to become when it comes to our athletes quite frankly and how much the almighty buck really powers pro sports. If everyone else is doing it and the big four aren't, that's their bad not everyone else's. Let's take this opportunity to right a wrong.
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  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    Rose shouldn't have his records erased, because A. he gambled as a manager and not a player...
    Just wanted to comment on this point. The gambling rule applies to all who work in baseball, including managers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    Just because none of the big four have ever done it, doesn't make it right. I'm actually surprised that none of them have, really. I think it shows how squishy we've allowed morality to become when it comes to our athletes quite frankly and how much the almighty buck really powers pro sports. If everyone else is doing it and the big four aren't, that's their bad not everyone else's. Let's take this opportunity to right a wrong.
    Never said it was right, but unfortunately, it is the reality. It's a lovely idea to think big money pro sports are suddenly going to develop high moral fiber, but it isn't realistic. Like with all other forms of business, money talks.
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  12. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hammer View Post
    Just wanted to comment on this point. The gambling rule applies to all who work in baseball, including managers.
    No I totally get it and I get that's why he was banned. The point I'm making is it should in no way have affected his records as a player because his records are not tainted in any way like these guys' are.
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  13. #12
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    Cool

    As far as the records- lets face it - the records are there.
    Should they be eliminated- I do not know- but they should be noted.

    Now- NFL & NBA & MLB & (wait who is the other "big one"- oh right) the NHL
    all have different rules & regs regarding steroid use.
    Mostly the NFL blames the player- does not strike anything he has previosly done (catches,sacks, takles,etc) but removes them from the game (usually 4 game ban).
    I do not know the NBA or NHL plan on this-
    But in my opinion they should not have these records removed from the books.
    Why - because you do not know how much steroids played a part before it became public - these guys are the big fish, but how many others are out there ? I do not think you should rewrite the books. You should make notes about them, not even astericks - but it should be noted that prior to (whatever year BB banned steroids) that some of these stats might have been influenced by steroids.

    Is it right - No.
    is it fair- well what is ?

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  14. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scar View Post
    I disagree. What if Bonds admits it (which I think he will to minimize jail time) but Sosa never does. Then Sosa gets to keep his 66 homers stand as the record? Not fair.
    As Ian points out, this logic is incredibly similar (well actually no - it's identical) to saying that no criminals should go to jail because sometimes criminals don't get caught. Sooooo not fair.

    I know it's sad think of a game you love being systematically corrupted (it happened to me when all the cricketing betting scandals came out in the early 2000s) - but it really is better to purge as much of it out as you can, rather than have some kind of tacit don't ask-don't tell/pat-a-cake punishment policy for a) cheating, and b) failing to fulfil their professional obligations.
    I've got a dirty thumb.

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  15. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhetoric2000 View Post
    I know it's sad think of a game you love being systematically corrupted (it happened to me when all the cricketing betting scandals came out in the early 2000s) - but it really is better to purge as much of it out as you can, rather than have some kind of tacit don't ask-don't tell/pat-a-cake punishment policy for a) cheating, and b) failing to fulfil their professional obligations.
    Which is exactly what I think is happening with McGwire.
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  16. #15
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    ol Mac should be glad MLB doesn't use Nascar's rule of thumb for substance abuse.

    Jeremy who?

    Although if they did, baseball players would be scared straight...
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