Pin Hawks...for shame...

[Clotho]

I happened to be at the parks during a pin trader event weekend this past weekend, and was so disappointed with the behavior I witnessed, I have to vent about it. Even the CM's themselves were complaining about the rude and thoughtless behavior that was running rampant as a result of what I used to call Pin Vultures, but now prefer the term one CM shared with me: "Pin Hawks".

They circle and circle, snapping up anything they can sell or trade for a profit, they don't want to trade with you unless you can increase their collection value--they have no interest in making a new friend or the social benefits of pin trading, instead only in their selfish gain. They will shove people aside and cut in front of anyone in line to get to see the lanyards. I would wait patiently in line at a register to get to see pins on a busy CM. AS I did, a Hawk would run right up while I was waiting and not only interrupt the current transaction but also cut in front of me who was waiting patiently for my turn.

I was thanked and complimented multiple times this week by CM's who were grateful for my polite, "May I please look at your pins?" and "Thanks so much. Have a great day." to *every* CM I approached to consider trading with. Because not only were these Pin Hawks being rude to other guests, but they were rude to the CM's. One CM, a janitorial staff member we talked to, was even threatened with violence by one of these kinds of "traders"; and I am certain she is not the only one.

I talked with many CM's about their experiences, and whether they felt put out by people coming up and asking to see the pins, or if they would prefer traders just try to peer at their lanyards without interrupting them. Every one of them said they vastly preferred politely being approached by someone, rather than just glaring at their lanyard wordlessly trying to scope the selection. They all preferred the interaction and getting to talk to guests, they said. I of course knew this had to be true, but was glad to be able to hear from them, and let them know some guests really do care about how the trade goes down and not just in the pins themselves.

I purposefully avoided the pin-laden traders, especially those with the tags identifying them as attending the pin event, and certainly ones who were wheeling around suitcases clearly full of their stash. Many were sporting two or three lanyards, displaying their collections. One time I approached a gentleman just to look at his collection, and he quickly snapped, "I am not trading all of these." And all I could think is "Why wear them if you are not saying, 'here is what I have available'?" I can only assume it is an egotistical, "See what I have and you don't" attitudes. Perhaps someone on the "inside" of the Pin Hawk culture would be impressed with simply looking at someone's collection. Me? I am there to get a chance to chat people up and TRADE. If you are showing me everything you have but aren't willing to give up, it smacks of rubbing noses in it, and is certainly counter to the point of the social interaction that the pin trading hobby was designed to be.

For my part, I always considered anything I am wearing on my lanyard to be trade-able. I am advertising what I have to share with someone else. If I want to just show off my collection, I would bring a small booklet of my displayed pins, and meet other traders at the trading shops to share and talk about them. I have also always considered vests and hats as display locations, while lanyards are intended to be trading locations. But I guess I am disabused of that now...

As my trip progressed, I was desperately trying to finish a three-pin set of a cast lanyard series. After all, I only get to WDW every three years or so, so it's not like I will be back in 6 months to tie up any loose pin trading ends like many of the Pin Hawks can. Obviously, due to bad timing of our trip overlapping with the event, this was the worst time to try and do that. By mid-morning, most of the CM's had long since been scavenged. My luck only appeared when I caught someone who just walked onstage from replenishing their pins, and it was rare. I was getting very discouraged, and just wanted to give up, but hubby and I enjoy a little "scavenger hunting", and going into the shops to chat up CM's was a fun part of our trip, so I tried to just relax about it and be okay with it if I didn't get to complete my collection before I left.

Finally, my last night there, hubby and I jumped on Jungle Cruise during the last hour of EMH on our last night before we flew home. Another young couple, festooned with multiple lanyards of pins each, sat down next to us. I pointed to the gal's lanyard to show my hubby the pin I was looking for, as she had a complete set.

"Oh! Are you looking for this one?" she smiled and she indicated the one I was looking for. "I have seen it everywhere and have a couple spare. I will trade it with you if you have something to trade." She started to remove it from her lanyard as she spoke.

My heart leapt! Finally, I had found a pin trader who was kind and generous--a "pin sucker" like me (sucker for making fun trades, regardless of value). I held out my bag, on which I had attached all my traders, including any of the other cast lanyard series' that were much-coveted at the time.

"Oh thank you!" I said breathlessly. "I have been looking everywhere for it and haven't seen it even once! And I leave tomorrow morning so I thought I would never find it before I had to go home! Here are my traders. Which one would you like?"

She screwed up her face and peered at them, then asked her husband if he wanted any. He shook is head.

She said, "Sorry, you don't have anything I want," and sat back in her seat.

My heart sank. She said she had extras even, and she refused to trade with me! She even knew I was leaving, and this was my last chance to get one, and she couldn't see the innate value in making a trade?? I was so upset. But not surprised in the least.

Sadly, my experience this past week revealed so many other people trading were either Pin Hawks, or are so scared of having a run-in with Pin Hawks they don't want to trade for fear of being taken advantage of. I ran into this with another guest this week as well, and I had to trade her two pins for her one to convince her I wasn't taking advantage of her and simply genuinely wanted the pin she had to trade for my collection.

I will make a point to avoid the parks during pin events in the future. It is dismaying to me that such a fun and innocent hobby can be turned into something so selfish and ugly in the wrong hands.

Of course I know that not all pin traders who have large collections are like this. So if you are an avid Pin Hound please don't assume I am talking about YOU and take offense. This was my experience, and is directly about people who would classify as Pin Hawks due to rude and selfish behavior. Pin Hounds and Pin Hawks are very different in my lexicon. Sadly, I have rarely if ever run into a Pin Hound in the parks. Myself? I am a Pin Sucker. That means I am a sucker for pins and pin trading, and love to trade for the joy of trading, not for personal gain. Of course I am not an idiot who wants to be taken advantage of, and I prefer making trades which complete collections for myself or follow a theme I am trying to pursue. But if someone came up to me and really really wanted a pin I had, and they had little to nothing I wanted, I would consider their strong desire to have a pin over my desire to keep it. And as a Pin Sucker, the joy of seeing them get something they really want is why I do this, and wins out in the end.

Thanks for listening to my vent.

PIN SUCKERS UNITE!

[DizneyRox]

This was my point exactly. Too many "elite" traders and they have taken so much fun out of the sport. I just don't bother anymore, and my wallet is much happier for it.

Even with pinpics I routinely get such obsurd trade requests that I can't help but think they are pin hawks looking to take advantage of someone's ignorance.

[terri.m]

I've seen what some of those individual pins go for on ebay. A person could make a killing if they knew which ones to get.

I'm sorry you dealt with this. We started pin trading at WDW last year but didn't really start getting into it until the last day of our trip. We're looking forward to going to DLR next month and trading some more. I hope we don't run into any of those hawks!

[clou1028]

I'm sorry you had such a negative experience! I myself don't trade, I only buy.

This is because I don't like wearing a lanyard full of pins all day. It hurts my neck.

And even if I were interested in trading, the type of behavior you describe would totally turn me off from it.


The one and only trade I ever made.. I had wore my lanyard to MVMCP. A teenage girl wanted to trade for one of my pins. I said "sure" and started taking my pin off... she said "do you like any of mine?" ...LOL! I hadn't even looked at hers before I agreed to trade!

I just like pins, I'm not worried about value or rarity. I just look for ones I like. I do have a few rare and valueable ones. I did happen to get one they couldn't sell... something about the 2000 logo being to similiar to the Olympics logo. I

[kakn7294]

I agree with most of what you said, except for the part about wearing your pins without wanting to trade is rubbing other's noses in your collection. I guess I never considered that wearing your pins but not trading them would be thought of by others as rude. I have often worn my lanyard with not-for-trade pins on it, for a variety of reasons. First, it's quite possible that I have traded (or more specifically, my DD's have traded) all the pins I brought to the park with me that day and all I have left are the ones I intend to keep. Second, not all of my pins are tradeable by Disney standards - specifically, I have an Intercot 5 yr pin on my lanyard and during football season, I wear a Steeler pin as well. Third, this past trip we were lucky enough to have met the Dream Squad and receive Dream Lanyards and Pins. I was not pin trading this trip but after our win, I wore my new lanyard and the pins I had purchased to keep to remind myself of our magical moment. I am not a Pin Hawk and like you only trade for fun - and usually, it's my DD's, not me, doing all the trading. I'm sorry that you had a bad experience.

[RobWreck]

Some people wear lanyads filled with 'Trophy pin', not to 'rub someone's face in it', but because they're proud of their collection. It's possible, rather likely in fact, that someone with a lanyard full of trophy pins, spent a whole lotta money on those pins. Why should they just sit in a book someplace when they could be worn around others who would appreciate them?
As for your definitions, I'd propose that you look at it as a division between 'fun traders' and 'business traders'... referring to people that just trade for fun as "pin suckers" is really missing the whole purpose of pin trading, to have fun. Some people get too wrapped up in the value of the pins and really miss out on the enjoyment of the pins.
Rob

[Clotho]

referring to people that just trade for fun as "pin suckers" is really missing the whole purpose of pin trading, to have fun. Some people get too wrapped up in the value of the pins and really miss out on the enjoyment of the pins.
Rob

I think you misunderstood me. I am a Pin Sucker, and it means people who are just in love with trading. Are willing to make "sucker trades" because they just enjoy trading so much, they don't care too much about whether or not they are getting a better end of a deal. Does that make sense?

[missbunny]

My dh loves collecting pins. He buys some on ebay if the price is good. We also go to the WOD store in NYC. When we go to WDW, he brings his extras for trading. He refuses to trade with adults. He loves letting kids look at his collection. He will trade or give away pins to them. He does it to make the kids happy and to make their day more magical. We love seeing their faces light up when they get a "really cool" pin. Imagine how much better life would be if we could all spread a little sunshine around.
I agree about some people being rude about pins, but then again this behavior happens in almost every kind of collectible.

[tinksmom02]

Ugh, what a disappointing experience you had! I'm so sorry it was so negative for you.

I agree with the previous poster, though...my DD5 just recently got into pin trading, and she has her lanyard all set to go for our upcoming trip. She has a bunch of pins that she wants to trade, but she has a few that are "keepers," They are not valuable by any means (I don't think LOL), but she's proud of them and wants to wear them.

I only let her trade with CMs, though, and they let her pick one of her own to trade.

Again, I'm sorry that the event was so negative for you. What a shame...I bet there were tons of people there who genuinely wanted to trade like you, but were put off or scared off by the "Hawks."

[TammiMcMan]

I guess I never considered that wearing your pins but not trading them would be thought of by others as rude. I have often worn my lanyard with not-for-trade pins on it, for a variety of reasons.

I wore my new lanyard and the pins I had purchased to keep to remind myself of our magical moment.

I agree Kathy. I love wearing my lanyard when we vacation in Disney. Maybe it's because it's not a collection intended for value. Instead, they're like charms on a bracelet. Each one was picked out to represent something special during that trip. Just because I'm not interested in trading, doesn't mean I shouldn't still wear them.

I'm sorry the OP had a disappointing experience with it.

[TikiGoddess]

My dh loves collecting pins. He buys some on ebay if the price is good. We also go to the WOD store in NYC. When we go to WDW, he brings his extras for trading. He refuses to trade with adults. He loves letting kids look at his collection. He will trade or give away pins to them. He does it to make the kids happy and to make their day more magical. We love seeing their faces light up when they get a "really cool" pin. Imagine how much better life would be if we could all spread a little sunshine around.
I agree about some people being rude about pins, but then again this behavior happens in almost every kind of collectible.

Your husband is doing what I love about pin trading -- spreading magic! I too often give away pins to young traders, as I was given pins when I first started trading. It's my way of 'paying it forward'. Making magic for someone else is more important than the value of a pin.

I truly enjoy the social benefits of trading. My favorite place to trade is at the WL pin cart, where they have a book of pins that you can choose from. The lady at the cart is wonderful to talk to -- she really enjoys her job!

We should arrange a pin trading time for the Intercot Anniversary...

TikiG

[Goofeygal]

I am an a pin trader and I totally agree with you on this one. I trade for the the fun and to meet people. I have gotten to the point where I only trade with cast members. I have gotten screwed out of pins in the past and will not do that again. Certain people have gotten crazy about pins and I don't think Disney meant it to be like this. It is sad very sad and it makes me very angry

[BigRedDad]

There are definitely different groups of people in pin-trading. WDW has created this "greed". There are people that live near WDW that can go every day to buy all of the new, highly sought after pins for $8-$12 each. Wait a year and sell them on eBay for far more than they spent. Pin-trading has become ridiculous because the ability to collect is near impossible. These "pin hawks", as you call them, probably buy 500 pin lots off eBay for less than $2 per pin. Then go to the parks and trade (or rob) every CM for the far more expensive pins.

These types of people have ruined what WDW intended in pin-trading. It was meant for an interactive activity that guests can do to talk with CMs and other guests. What WDW could do to correct this behavior is work with eBay to disallow the sale of pins. WDW can also create some form of color-coding for pins. What this does is only trades of similar color can be done with CMs. They can stamp something on the back of all pins.

For those of you that enjoy it, please stay happy with it. For those that are so discouraged, try to avoid the scammers/profiteers.

[mermaidmarian]

Not everyone interested in pins is a trader. Please know that many people who collect pins are wholly unaware of or uninterested in the pin trading culture.

I've bought almost 100 pins over the years. I've never traded and it actually never even occurs to me - I just buy the pins I like or that fit with my collections; its usually the only souvenier item I bring home.

Sometimes I wear a pin lanyard (not usually) but often I wear a hat with pins. I am decorating myself only when doing it, and showing my love for Disney in the same way someone with a t-shirt or cap does - I'm not advertising them as available to trade and I'm not "bragging" about them. I disagree with the opinion that this is somehow bad form.

[IloveJack]

Maybe it's because it's not a collection intended for value. Instead, they're like charms on a bracelet. Each one was picked out to represent something special during that trip.

Dh and I really got into pin trading on our last trip. I put all of mine on a lanyard, but when it became too heavy to wear, I just put it in my bag. We started by only buying pins that we wanted to keep. Then, when we realized that the CMs had pins that we couldn't find anywhere, we bought a few sets (with some that we liked, and some we could trade), to trade with CMs.
Dh is a hugeJack Skellington fan, and he spent a good part of his trip looking for pins from NBC. On our next to last day there, we ran into some "pin hawks" with great pins, who refused to trade for anything that wasn't of great value. Like the quote above, we couldn't care less about value, we were just looking for characters/rides that meant something to us, to remind us of that specific trip. We walked off, refusing to be taken advantage of. We decided then and there that we wouldn't trade with people who had books/suitcases of pins with them.
We ended up with enough pins from just that trip to buy a book, but we didn't carry it around with us. In fact, we left it at the resort, and just displayed our "traders", putting those traded for in our bags. We came home with only one "trader", and it was only because I found a better pin to represent that aspect of our trip at the airport. When we go back, I'll take that one, leave the others at home, and start again.
I definitely enjoy that "chatting" part of pin trading, especially with the CMs, as their backgrounds are so diverse.
As for ebay, we've purchased two pins from it. Both were single purchases, and both were for cheaper than they'd cost in the parks. The only reason we looked for them is that they're part of a set that dh started. I think it kind of defeats the purpose of trading, if you're purchasing from ebay.

[cjb121879]

That is really a shame that the OP had such a difficult time. This is exactly the reason that when I took my niece and nephew to WDW this past June and got them started with pin trading, I only let them trade with CMs and insisted that they be polite, wait their turn, not touch the pins and use "please" and "thank you".

While in the WOD store in DTD, a man and woman (I assume husband and wife) saw my nephew and I eyeing Peter Pan (this was my nephew's theme!) pins for sale. The lady turned to her husband and said "Look, this young man is collecting Peter Pan pins. Don't you have some?" The man took a Tink pin out of his pocket and handed it to my nephew. The lady said "And that's a really good one too. You can't buy those." (It was a castmember lanyard pin). I thanked them and told my nephew to hold out his lanyard so that the couple could pick one they wanted to trade. They both thanked us and declined and said that it wasn't necessary, they wanted to give that Tink pin to him. We thanked them again and my nephew had the biggest smile on his face! That one nice deed really made our night and made me realize that this is what pin trading (and actually, WDW) is all about- human interaction and spreading the magic!

If by chance that couple frequents this board, I'd like to say thank you again!

[DDuck66]

Not everyone interested in pins is a trader. Please know that many people who collect pins are wholly unaware of or uninterested in the pin trading culture.

I've bought almost 100 pins over the years. I've never traded and it actually never even occurs to me - I just buy the pins I like or that fit with my collections; its usually the only souvenier item I bring home.

Sometimes I wear a pin lanyard (not usually) but often I wear a hat with pins. I am decorating myself only when doing it, and showing my love for Disney in the same way someone with a t-shirt or cap does - I'm not advertising them as available to trade and I'm not "bragging" about them. I disagree with the opinion that this is somehow bad form.

I tend to agree with the above. I have over 75 Donald Duck pins that I DO NOT trade unless i have a duplicate, but I do not wear them. Instead I have pictures of them that I take with me as i am always on the lookout for new Donalds. I mostly buy my pins, but I do have a lanyard that I put all of my tradeable pins on in case a CM has a Donald that I like. I have never been interested in their monetary value...I just love the Duck!!!

[EmcDuckRN]

Yeah for every nice theing in the world there is someone out there who wants to take advantage of it, and try and ruin it for the rest of us.

I am usually decended upon by at least one Hawk during my trip. Usually on the first day, since my traders are out. typically on the first day since I'm loaded up then. I usually don't even spend time around people with three or more lanyards because of this. They just snoot off. I've gotten a bit trade shy and usually don't apporach others because of the eletism, and attempt to make money at something that should be just fun.

If someone has an interest, I've always traded. If Idon't see anything I want specifically, that's ok, because I'll trade it away later to someone else. I just ask them to pick any one at random. Especially little kids. I will almost just give them the pin, as long as they aren't acting snotty.

Most of my efforts are centered on trading with the cast members, and I think that it is a good opportunity to get to know some of them (if they have the time) Except with the obvious Donald Collection... I usually collect ones that will mean something to me. A resort I've stayed in, a ride I enjoyed, something special about the trip itself. Also from a special event, such as MVMCP or the MNSSHP, but only if I've actually attended it.

I could care less if I have a $50 pin and I'm trading it for a $0.75 pin, if it means something to me that is the real value. Because then it is really priceless. To be honest, I've never even looked at a price guide to see what they are worth.

I have had a great time with the cast members that way, and they often make the trip worth doing. I've gotten the best reaction when I let them choose the one that they would get in the trade.

But like you said, the Hawks are there, and I have noticed a decline in the number of CMs with lanyards (practiclally non existent at DL last year) And others too actually. I think that the hawks are contributing to the decline. And it is a shame that they have to ruin it for everyone.

But as long as I am still interested in pins, I'll be standing in lines (behind you) with no merchandise to look at CMs lanyards.

[Clotho]

I usually collect ones that will mean something to me. A resort I've stayed in, a ride I enjoyed, something special about the trip itself. Also from a special event, such as MVMCP or the MNSSHP, but only if I've actually attended it.

This is my approach. I collect AND trade. I buy along a few themes--Cheshire Cat, Tigger, and Stitch. And then I buy for exceptional rides or experiences (being there for New Years, for instance, or Labor Day as I just was).

I love the Hidden Mickey collections that have been going around, and that was the focus of my trading this trip. Trading with the CM's was fun. I would have loved to have used the opportunity to meet more guests, but the Hawks took that chance away. Hopefully I will have a different experience next time I go when it is not a pin trader weekend.

Maybe we could arrange a Pin Suckers meet sometime. People who just love the joy of pins, are casual traders, and just want to get together with fun people. No heavy handed trading allowed. I would love that. It's what I wish the pin events actually were! We could donate pins to a mystery pin trade game or something. We could make our own fun!

[glenpreece]

Wow this seems to go along the lines with the woman who hangs out with the traders at DTD. I was looking for a spring pin gor my mom and they didn't have any in the store so the woman asked the head trader lady and she asked the others. Someone had one but wanted me to purchasea $15 pin. I said no of course. I too am a Pin Sucker. I like to trade only with CM's I don't wear a lanyard I just keep them in the bag or pocket for fear of losing them and I hate wearing the lanyard.