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texas211
06-30-2017, 09:28 PM
So the we wants the redhead scene will be removed from the ride soon.

In light of this, I feel they should go ahead and bulldoze the attraction. What would make a good replacement in Adventureland?

I'm thinking a good food court?
Maybe a Moana attraction in the dark?

Paradise Pier Pinocchio
06-30-2017, 11:05 PM
How about starting over with the version in Shanghai? :thedolls:

texas211
06-30-2017, 11:20 PM
How about starting over with the version in Shanghai? :thedolls:

Well that has been put to bed. I don't think there can be a better idea. If we must say goodbye to a good classic, then new awesome is the way to go. Plus, everyone can ride! No cramming into a halfway motorcycle.

kbean
07-01-2017, 05:19 AM
Disney caving to the 2% percent whiners. With all the fake news too bad this one cant be one. Another reason why Disney ***** anymore.

WDWdriver
07-01-2017, 08:41 AM
Here's the explanation of the redhead scene revision as posted by Disney on the Cast Member web site:

At Magic Kingdom park and Disneyland park, it’s a pirate’s life for a favorite redhead—beginning in 2018, after an already-planned refurbishment, the redhead is trading her fashionable bonnet for a pirate’s hat. Guests will now see her joining the pirates’ ranks and helping the locals “unload” their valuables at the Mercado auction.

Kathy Mangum, senior vice president, Atlantic Region Executive for Walt Disney Imagineering, said, “Our team thought long and hard about how best to update this scene. Given the redhead has long been a fan favorite, we wanted to keep her as a pivotal part of the story, so we made her a plundering pirate! We think this keeps to the original vision of the attraction as envisioned by Marc Davis, X Atencio and the other Disney Legends who first brought this classic to life.”

brad192
07-01-2017, 09:41 AM
Here's the explanation of the redhead scene revision as posted by Disney on the Cast Member web site:

At Magic Kingdom park and Disneyland park, it’s a pirate’s life for a favorite redhead—beginning in 2018, after an already-planned refurbishment, the redhead is trading her fashionable bonnet for a pirate’s hat. Guests will now see her joining the pirates’ ranks and helping the locals “unload” their valuables at the Mercado auction.

Kathy Mangum, senior vice president, Atlantic Region Executive for Walt Disney Imagineering, said, “Our team thought long and hard about how best to update this scene. Given the redhead has long been a fan favorite, we wanted to keep her as a pivotal part of the story, so we made her a plundering pirate! We think this keeps to the original vision of the attraction as envisioned by Marc Davis, X Atencio and the other Disney Legends who first brought this classic to life.”

Really? :confused: This is actually happening? :mad: Unbelievable. :ack: Have we become so thin-skinned and politically correct that one of the most loved and iconic scenes in dark ride history needs to be "reworked & updated" so as not to offend anyone? I have just 2 more words on the subject:L

Bad Show.

TikiLounger
07-01-2017, 09:47 AM
Wow. This is disappointing beyond belief. I think I'll make it a point to loudly exclaim that "We wants the redhead!" when riding this November.

disney1026
07-01-2017, 09:59 AM
Very disappointing to hear. I guess the attraction song will be next to go?

texas211
07-01-2017, 11:13 AM
Yeap, tragic and horrible.

I think the Shanghai Pirates is a great idea. Rather than alter a classic, replace it was something totally different.

I wouldn't mind seeing some sort of UP adventure in its place.

Simba's Mom
07-01-2017, 12:24 PM
Ever since they changed the scene of Pirates chasing women around to Pirates and women interchangeably chasing each other, I saw the handwriting on the wall. Let's be politically correct rather than historically accurate. BTW, does anyone remember when they changed this? I think it was about 15-20 years ago.

Horizon One
07-02-2017, 10:28 AM
I saw this somewhere as well. We are talking about a ride about pirates. Although it is more family friendly than real pirates were, the current ride shows them pillaging and looting a town which is what they did.
It has been this way for many years and now it needs to be changed?
I guess it is like everything else, sanitize things so as to not offend.
They probably for some complaints from the same people that need safe spaces at schools and decided to change it based on the few rather than the many.

texas211
07-02-2017, 03:14 PM
I saw this somewhere as well. We are talking about a ride about pirates. Although it is more family friendly than real pirates were, the current ride shows them pillaging and looting a town which is what they did.
It has been this way for many years and now it needs to be changed?
I guess it is like everything else, sanitize things so as to not offend.
They probably for some complaints from the same people that need safe spaces at schools and decided to change it based on the few rather than the many.


Yeah, why I think like to think they should tear it down..

But what should replace it?

DadTriton
07-02-2017, 11:57 PM
This is completely unacceptable. POTC is one of Walt's ride ideas.
I was planning a Thanksgiving trip - but no more.
I am surprised that Carousel of Progress hasn't been cancelled - you know "too normal" of a family.

sicemdawgs
07-03-2017, 09:51 AM
I'm looking forward to the update in 2019 where transgender pirates sit in a circle in their safe place and discuss implementation of the single-payer health care system they saw on Rachel Maddow.

Mendelson
07-03-2017, 09:57 AM
It's a fascinating phenomenon that we accept as normal the social mores that exist in the world that we are born into. We then are generally okay with the evolution of social norms until up through sometime maybe in our teens. But boy once we hit about 25 or 30, any further evolution becomes ridiculous.

Times and attitudes change, folks. And if you don't change - and maybe you don't want to - you're eventually going to be just as cringey as my loving and well-meaning grandfather when he uses words for African Americans, homosexuals, and people from the mid-east that I'm guessing (hoping) none of us would use in mixed company.

We rarely are able to see ourselves become that dinosaur.

WDW-Geek
07-03-2017, 02:22 PM
Next thing you know the Disney Inking and Painting Department will be hiring women animators. :mad:

texas211
07-03-2017, 08:31 PM
So to keep on topic, and to keep mods happy, if POTC was to be removed, what would be good in its place?

disneycutie165
07-05-2017, 11:21 AM
So to keep on topic, and to keep mods happy, if POTC was to be removed, what would be good in its place?

It would be awesome to see it turned into Shanghai's version of POTC, like previous posters said. But I also think it would be awesome to change it to fit the general story line of some of the other POTC movies. I hate that they are changing it, but at least keep it in the POTC family.

dlpmikki
07-05-2017, 12:07 PM
It is interesting how much they have amended Pirates over the years. Stopping the pirates chasing the women was the first major change I remember. Adding Captain Jack was another and I recall people being horrified at that. It sort of works. When they briefly had Pirates and Princess parties we saw Jack in the Town square with a chain of ladies behind him, including the red head. When they do renovation you do wonder if they are doing change for changes sake. I'm not sure I would like to lose it altogether despite the changes. Maybe some of the changes will be good, we'll just have to wait and see (but maybe don't hold your breath....)

baldburke
07-05-2017, 12:09 PM
Wow...just wow! If they are going to make completely PC rides then what's next, completely PC movies? Good luck selling tickets! Based on this then my guess would be that Splash Mountain is next on the list for a do-over? It's it better to acknowledge your imperfections rather than erase them?

VWL Mom
07-05-2017, 12:11 PM
So to keep on topic, and to keep mods happy....

:thumbsup::thanks:

VWL Mom
07-05-2017, 12:13 PM
Based on this then my guess would be that Splash Mountain is next on the list for a do-over? It's it better to acknowledge your imperfections rather than erase them?
I never even thought of that when they said Splash was going down August 26th for rehab, hmmmm.

Hammer
07-05-2017, 01:40 PM
I never even thought of that when they said Splash was going down August 26th for rehab, hmmmm.

I don't think there will be any real change made to Splash Mountain during the refurb. I would say that the racial overtones of the movie do not exist in the ride.

texas211
07-05-2017, 09:00 PM
I don't think there will be any real change made to Splash Mountain during the refurb. I would say that the racial overtones of the movie do not exist in the ride.

Oh they definitely do. But who cares. Its part of the song, the intention isn't there, and its still I think enjoyable.

However, for POTC, I like the idea of Shanghai POTC. I like those Ratouille style vehicles, similar to Spider Man and Transformers over at Universal. Just no more Tron cycles. They are way too small.

If Splash was to fall, put in a 2nd 7Dwarfs and cut that line down.

Hammer
07-05-2017, 09:39 PM
I don't think they are as obvious as you think to people who aren't familiar with certain regional customs, whereas an auction of women is a bit more obvious.

Anyway, I don't think the scene necessarily needs to be changed. I also don't think it is being changed solely for PC reasons. I think to make the ride more in line with the movie franchise, which is what they did in Shanghai.

Cinderelley
07-06-2017, 02:21 AM
It's a fascinating phenomenon that we accept as normal the social mores that exist in the world that we are born into. We then are generally okay with the evolution of social norms until up through sometime maybe in our teens. But boy once we hit about 25 or 30, any further evolution becomes ridiculous.

Times and attitudes change, folks. And if you don't change - and maybe you don't want to - you're eventually going to be just as cringey as my loving and well-meaning grandfather when he uses words for African Americans, homosexuals, and people from the mid-east that I'm guessing (hoping) none of us would use in mixed company.

We rarely are able to see ourselves become that dinosaur.

That is one way to look at it, but if you pretend like the past never existed, you cannot learn from the mistakes your forefathers made. In this ride, the "bad" people are the ones doing the "bad" things which teaches that they are bad. Say for instance, if we erased all inkling that slavery existed, at some point in the future, someone will get the idea to do it again without the knowledge that it is "bad". "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." George Santayana

Even your statement shows things with "once we hit 25 or 30". I am well over 30 and I do not feel that further evolution in and of itself becomes ridiculous. Also, commenting on words being used in mixed company. If I don't feel comfortable saying something in front of someone, I wouldn't say it in private either.

Perhaps it isn't about being cringey. It may be about seeing things from a different perspective that may be just as valid.

texas211
07-06-2017, 08:42 AM
I don't think they are as obvious as you think to people who aren't familiar with certain regional customs, whereas an auction of women is a bit more obvious.

Anyway, I don't think the scene necessarily needs to be changed. I also don't think it is being changed solely for PC reasons. I think to make the ride more in line with the movie franchise, which is what they did in Shanghai.


I have no doubts the differences of perceptions have to do with a variety of factors including region, race, gender of those perceiving the events. One may perceive the issue as worse if they are a women, the other might be worse if they are a minority. Either way, don't care, shouldn't change it :)

Well, if they are changing it to be even more to be line w/ the movie is almost worst. Adding scenes to make it more like the movie, or tweaking more incidental aspects is one thing.. But, to me, this is like taking out the dog at the end, and putting in the monkey or something.

But, regardless, in POTC was going to be pulled altogether, are there any other ideas for its replacement?

Maybe an Indy ride? But something different than at DL. Ideas on that?

Disney24-7
07-06-2017, 09:41 AM
So when is it going down for refurb and when will it be back up? I am going May 11 2018 and really wont go if its not opened? That IS our most favorite ride.

Cinderelley
07-06-2017, 11:07 AM
But, regardless, in POTC was going to be pulled altogether, are there any other ideas for its replacement?

Maybe an Indy ride? But something different than at DL. Ideas on that?

Monsters Inc Coaster from the door scene!

baldburke
07-06-2017, 12:04 PM
Monsters Inc Coaster from the door scene!

Fantastic idea!

texas211
07-06-2017, 08:08 PM
How about using the Ratatouile technology, and make an Aladdin ride? Or maybe a trip, following multiple areas (Brave, Tangled, etc). THink Star Tours type trip, but instead randomly hit 2 different Disney movie areas..

disneycutie165
07-07-2017, 08:55 AM
Monsters Inc Coaster from the door scene!

Oh I so love this idea. I have been saying since the movie came out that they need a ride like that!

Wayne
07-08-2017, 03:04 PM
How would a Monster's Inc tie-in for any attraction fit in Adventureland?

Cinderelley
07-09-2017, 07:13 AM
It wouldn't, but I'm not convinced that Disney really cares about that any more.

TheVBs
07-09-2017, 05:32 PM
It's hard to see a classic change, but I have to add my own "WOW!" at some of the ugly comments here.

This is a great opportunity to share a favorite quote from a favorite author:

"I was reading a book (about interjections, oddly enough) yesterday which included the phrase “In these days of political correctness…” talking about no longer making jokes that denigrated people for their culture or for the colour of their skin. And I thought, “That’s not actually anything to do with ‘political correctness’. That’s just treating other people with respect.”

Which made me oddly happy. I started imagining a world in which we replaced the phrase “politically correct” wherever we could with “treating other people with respect”, and it made me smile.

You should try it. It’s peculiarly enlightening.

I know what you’re thinking now. You’re thinking “Oh my god, that’s treating other people with respect gone mad!”

—Neil Gaiman

TheVBs
07-09-2017, 05:36 PM
While I absolutely cannot entertain the idea of POTC going away, I would love to see a Tangled dark ride. :-)

texas211
07-09-2017, 08:20 PM
It's hard to see a classic change, but I have to add my own "WOW!" at some of the ugly comments here.

This is a great opportunity to share a favorite quote from a favorite author:

"I was reading a book (about interjections, oddly enough) yesterday which included the phrase “In these days of political correctness…” talking about no longer making jokes that denigrated people for their culture or for the colour of their skin. And I thought, “That’s not actually anything to do with ‘political correctness’. That’s just treating other people with respect.”

Which made me oddly happy. I started imagining a world in which we replaced the phrase “politically correct” wherever we could with “treating other people with respect”, and it made me smile.

You should try it. It’s peculiarly enlightening.

I know what you’re thinking now. You’re thinking “Oh my god, that’s treating other people with respect gone mad!”

—Neil Gaiman

And whenever I hear, "We wants the redhead," it makes me smile.


Look, and I mean this to everyone, A) this is just assuming the ride should go away, and what should replace it? b). Don't care what the scene is, the ride is perfect as is minus the existence of FP+. Well, actually it was perfect 20 years ago. I can live w/ the changes of the past to bring us as is, but now, I'm suggesting, as many are, that the ride has lost its mind (for whatever reason, PC, crazy person in charge, the magic 8 ball told them to do it, whatever).
c) So, we can stop w/ the why we think it should stay, and the others giving "enlightened" nonsense.

What should replace it?

Tangled sounds good.

As I type this, lets close it Mods. This is shot to ....

Buttercup
07-10-2017, 01:07 AM
Saw a neat idea on twitter the other day. If the scene auctioning women off to pirates has to go away, what if it's just slightly altered? The auctioneer is trying to convince all the pirates that they should choose HIM to be their new captain. But, the redhead is now a pirate, sporting a sword and boots, maybe still showing a bit of *gasp* ankle, and the pirates yell WE WANTS THE REDHEAD! (not to force her to be their slave, but to be their captain!) I kind of like this because it's still the auctioneer convincing the crowd, they still can yell about their beloved redhead, but nobody is being sold into slavery.

I'm not quite ready to bulldoze the entire attraction if they decide to change it. After seeing that scene thousands of times since I was a kid, I feel like I never really thought about what actually was happening in that scene. Basically, I just felt like "Oh look the pirates think the redhead is hot" and left it at that. But when you really think about that scene, it is actually kind-of disturbing. Especially if you Put it in the context of rape and slavery. So I sort of see this from both sides. I'm as Disney-purist as you can get, but meh, maybe there's a compromise here with something equally visually stunning. As I say, I don't think it's time to plough it under and set up a Monsters Inc Coaster just yet. :blush:

These drunken pirates singing a catchy, jolly tune aren't meant to be hated as "bad men doing bad things". They're supposed to be loveable scamps with funny faces and slurred speech, wearing a stack of hats or sitting in the mud with some pigs. Real pirates are way scarier, if you're going to be historically accurate. So again, maybe there is a sort-of compromise to make both sides of this content?

Anyway, sorry to hijack your thread Texas211. If you'd like to know what ride I'd love to see in MK, and more specifically Adventureland, I wish they'd make some room for a Jungle Book dark ride!

texas211
07-10-2017, 09:08 AM
Saw a neat idea on twitter the other day. If the scene auctioning women off to pirates has to go away, what if it's just slightly altered? The auctioneer is trying to convince all the pirates that they should choose HIM to be their new captain. But, the redhead is now a pirate, sporting a sword and boots, maybe still showing a bit of *gasp* ankle, and the pirates yell WE WANTS THE REDHEAD! (not to force her to be their slave, but to be their captain!) I kind of like this because it's still the auctioneer convincing the crowd, they still can yell about their beloved redhead, but nobody is being sold into slavery.

I'm not quite ready to bulldoze the entire attraction if they decide to change it. After seeing that scene thousands of times since I was a kid, I feel like I never really thought about what actually was happening in that scene. Basically, I just felt like "Oh look the pirates think the redhead is hot" and left it at that. But when you really think about that scene, it is actually kind-of disturbing. Especially if you Put it in the context of rape and slavery. So I sort of see this from both sides. I'm as Disney-purist as you can get, but meh, maybe there's a compromise here with something equally visually stunning. As I say, I don't think it's time to plough it under and set up a Monsters Inc Coaster just yet. :blush:

These drunken pirates singing a catchy, jolly tune aren't meant to be hated as "bad men doing bad things". They're supposed to be loveable scamps with funny faces and slurred speech, wearing a stack of hats or sitting in the mud with some pigs. Real pirates are way scarier, if you're going to be historically accurate. So again, maybe there is a sort-of compromise to make both sides of this content?

Anyway, sorry to hijack your thread Texas211. If you'd like to know what ride I'd love to see in MK, and more specifically Adventureland, I wish they'd make some room for a Jungle Book dark ride!

I appreciate your idea. My view is, the whole idea of a pirates (killers, arsonists, rapists, etc) is by its very nature counter to the idea of (well if we fix the redhead scene its okay). So either leave it, or bulldoze. But your idea is the best alternative idea i've heard.

That being said, love the Jungle Book idea. The new live action film is our favorite re-imagined live action Disney film. Way better than Cinderella or Beauty.

TheVBs
07-10-2017, 12:48 PM
And whenever I hear, "We wants the redhead," it makes me smile.

It makes me smile too! The whole ride makes me smile. :mickey:


c) So, we can stop w/ the why we think it should stay, and the others giving "enlightened" nonsense.

I promise not to drift from the topic from here on out, especially now that my enlightenment quota has been fulfilled for this week. ;) Next week.... it's fair game again! LOL! Kidding. ;) Probably.



Tangled sounds good.

I don't know why, but it's that tavern scene and song that I can just so easily see being part of a dark ride. Not that there aren't other, more amazing elements they could include, but that scene would be a must for me. It would fit nicely space-wise in POTC as well. I think.

Giggy
07-10-2017, 02:12 PM
The only thing that should ever replace POTC should be an exact carbon copy of POTC, identical to the point that it basically is the original ride. :D

texas211
07-10-2017, 06:32 PM
I don't know why, but it's that tavern scene and song that I can just so easily see being part of a dark ride. Not that there aren't other, more amazing elements they could include, but that scene would be a must for me. It would fit nicely space-wise in POTC as well. I think.

We want the blondes! J/k

That would fit, could be some really cool visual scenes, and much longer than the Frozen boat ride.

I'd like a Moana ride.. end facing off against the island gods.. Be awesome.

2Epcot
07-15-2017, 11:10 AM
Yesterday I attended the 50 years of pirates panel at the D23 expo. The panel featured Imagineers who worked on all the Pirates attractions at every Disney park, from the original to the new Shanghai Disneyland pirate attraction. Imagineers there were Marty Sklar, Orlando Ferrante, Tony Baxter, Kim Irvine (whose mom worked for Imagineering on the original Pirates) Irvine works on changes and updates currently. Also, Luc Mayrand, and Nancy Seruto who created the new reimagined Pirates in Shanghai were on the panel.

Having been to the new Shanghai Disneyland it was interesting to hear the details about all the work and technology that went into that attraction. Though even with that, they looked for ways to stay true to the original Pirates. Before they opened the Shanghai Pirates they had a water ceremony, where they had brought bottles of water from all the Pirate attractions around the world and added the water to Shanghai Pirates to have a connection to the others.

One of the interesting comments that Marty Skylar made was that Walt Disney always like to tinker and change things. Anytime a new idea came up, or a thought I could make something better, he was always wanting to alter and change things. Marty said every attraction at the parks has been changed at some point, usually during long refurbs. This process this was mentioned by other Imaginaires as well. Marty said it's a natural process that happens at the Disney parks, and has been happening since Walt Disney's time, so he had no issues with the changes. His comments got a huge round of applause from the audience.

texas211
07-15-2017, 12:43 PM
Before they opened the Shanghai Pirates they had a water ceremony, where they had brought bottles of water from all the Pirate attractions around the world and added the water to Shanghai Pirates to have a connection to the others.
.

That is pretty cool.

As for tinkering. There is tinkering and changing. There is changing the texture in the presentations of D in disney.. But you always see it in that funny script? The castle is still blue. Epcot is still silver.
Some staples are always needed. That's brand loyalty. Radical changes, then you have to become a slave to that, and keep up the wow factor.

We'll see how it goes. This, along w/ other changes, I think gives us as a family an opportunity to explore other vacation opportunities.

I saw someone said D23 is possibly releasing a Moana attraction? That could fit well in Adventureland. I do miss having rides released for the sake of having them, and not having a film tie in.. But, those are days long since passed. I need to go back in time.. :)

Terra
07-16-2017, 12:16 PM
I'm looking forward to the update in 2019 where transgender pirates sit in a circle in their safe place and discuss implementation of the single-payer health care system they saw on Rachel Maddow.

Wow, what a sad testiment in this thread to some mind sets.
Unless you've worked with a transgender child who has been disowned and/or forced to undergo "conversion" therapy, or have known someone in the gay community who has attempted suicide, and one friend who sadly succeeded. Unless you've worked with real victims of human trafficking [raises hand as I've done and or known all of the above],
Then I guess it's easy to whine and cry about it.

Guess I'm the 2% whiner who does not believe in fake news.
I do however believe in human diginity.
As much as I love POTC a couple of those scenes do need to change with the times.


It's a fascinating phenomenon that we accept as normal the social mores that exist in the world that we are born into. We then are generally okay with the evolution of social norms until up through sometime maybe in our teens. But boy once we hit about 25 or 30, any further evolution becomes ridiculous.

Times and attitudes change, folks. And if you don't change - and maybe you don't want to - you're eventually going to be just as cringey as my loving and well-meaning grandfather when he uses words for African Americans, homosexuals, and people from the mid-east that I'm guessing (hoping) none of us would use in mixed company.

We rarely are able to see ourselves become that dinosaur.

Yes!! Many who don't like these changes should possibly live in those times. It's easy with all the progress we've made to say "oh those people whining about safe places and such..."
When they are afforded those rights themselves.
We've come so far, yet have so much farther to go.
I've lost too many friends and family because of archaic ideas.


Next thing you know the Disney Inking and Painting Department will be hiring women animators. :mad:

Imagine the horror, and then they'll be wanting to vote and own stuff too.

texas211
07-16-2017, 02:14 PM
Or maybe leave it alone and just dont ride it?
-We Wants the Redhead

VWL Mom
07-16-2017, 02:56 PM
I think this thread has pretty much run it's course and now just seems to be adrift.