Is the service REALLY declining? Where's the proof?

[azcavalier]

I read an article on another Disney site yesterday that was basically a long complaint about how prices are going up, Disney is charging for things that used to be included, etc, etc, but how their revenue is also up and that TPTB are just money-grubbing. And one of their main complaints was that the level of service in the parks had gone down for years. But they had no real proof, or even examples. They just treated it like it was a known fact and that we should agree because they said so.

Well, I disagree. I've been going for 16 years, and I feel like the service is as good as it ever has been. I know that many of you on here have voiced that same opinion, that the service has declined, and often share something that happened on a trip.

I would argue that in an organization as large as WDW, with as many guests, employees, etc as there are, that you will always be able to find horror stories or examples of bad service. But that doesn't mean that it's declining across the board.

I, too, have had bad experiences with CMs at WDW from time-to-time. Sometimes they were wrong. Sometimes we were wrong. Sometimes, NO ONE was wrong, and stuff just malfunctioned.

I guess my point is that I know Disney still prides itself on its exemplary customer service. They still train and train employees on how to handle these things. Their attention to service, through training, seems as high as ever.

If anyone has any actual proof other than some poor experience they had this one time, then I'd love to hear it. Otherwise, I'm just going to assume that familiarity breeds contempt and the fact that many of us have been going for so long that some of the magic is rubbing off, and it can never live up to what it felt like when we first started attending.

[Sylvia]

I've been thinking basically the same way. In spite of the closing of many of my old favorites, Disney has always been and will always be my happy place. The magic is still there, and I'm heading back in August for another "Disney fix".:mickey::mickey::mickey::mickey::mickey:

[1DisneyNut]

I don't know what one could submit as proof that would satisfy you. Maybe if when we first started going we would have created some sort of points system and meticulously kept records and gave points to each little line item on a spreadsheet we could have created, we would have some sort of physical data we could throw on a chart.

All I can tell you is from personal experience, I am in the camp with those that feel service and satisfaction has declined. My first trip was as a kid in 1974 and I have been so many times over the years I have lost count. Prior to all the changes and price gouging, we were going at least two trips of a week each year and sometimes three trips. I can remember when you walked through the gate and you would be impressed by everything. You would leave the place in amazement wondering how they pulled it all off and kept everything so perfect and felt like you got a steal of a deal for a vacation. Now, you see poor maintenance, attractions falling apart (splashwater falls got exceptionally bad at one point and epcot looks like Detroit with all the unused poor looking buildings) and you have CM's that couldn't care less about their job.

Honestly, I don't see how you could not see the difference if you have been going 16 years.

[SBETigg]

I just got back from a late May trip, and I had no complaints. Not to say it's perfect or that people don't have reason for their dissatisfaction. Maybe some of it had to do with my mindset. But I've noticed trash and maintenance issues in the past. This time, everything seemed clean, fresh, and organized. The CMs I encountered were all friendly and helpful.

I've lived in the Detroit area and I can honestly say that Epcot is nothing like Detroit. What an odd comparison. Maybe two empty buildings? Both used at certain times of year and maintained. Though, the former Wonders of Life building could use work, would be nice to see former Odyssey more functional and Epcot could stand a few more attractions. To compare it to Detroit is hyperbolic. Not to upset fans of Detroit. Sorry.

[BrerGnat]

I read that article. Honestly, it sounds like a lot of sour grapes to me. If you are going to write an article like that, have some solid examples to bolster your argument.

Just about the only tangible, measurable complaint I have lately about both WDW and DL is that it is too crowded. Otherwise, I have not personally experienced any of the things routinely mentioned in this type of discussion, which goes to show that a LOT of this is perception combined with just pure bad luck.

[Stu29573]

Our latest trip in December was not wonderful, but the CM's were not the problem. We had one a Be Our Guest who was snippy, but in all honesty they were swamped and stressed- and therein lies the problem. The main problems came from the crowds. There were simply too many people with not enough for them to do. The Magic Kingdom was the only park that felt "worth it," but it was swamped because there was so little to do in the other parks. We have vowed not to return until September,2019, when most of the expansions are finished but the crowds may be less...

[TheVBs]

We've been going regularly since 1999 and honestly, our trips keep improving in many ways. We've certainly had a few bad experiences, but these were by far the exception rather than the rule.

With quality of service being, in many ways, a perception, it may be hard to get satisfying proof from anyone. However, there is one example I can think of - overselling the parties. We've only been to one party and it was pretty crowded, so I can't really give a personal comparison. But from what others have said, that sounds like a solid example.

Have to weigh in on the Detroit comment as well. Had to laugh out loud when I read it! Living just a couple hours away from Detroit, I've been there. Epcot does NOT look like Detroit. Feel like I have to add, there are areas of Detroit that are making a really impressive comeback.

[faline]

Those of us who visit frequently are probably the first to complain about a "decline" in service but part of the issue might actually be our frequent visits. We notice things that those who go only occasionally or who have never been before would never notice. Is it different than my first trip - way back when? Definitely. Different, however, does not always translate into worse though I may perceive it that way as I liked the way it was much better.

Disney is dependent upon their front line staff for service. With the number of people who are employed by Disney, you are going to find some who provide bad service, some who provide mediocre service, and some who excel. Overall, I think Disney has done a good job at finding and retaining those who provide good service and those who excel.

I am probably more disatisfied with some of the systems in which their staff need to work than I an with the service provided by the individuals with whom I interact while at Disney.

Just my two cents of the day......

[azcavalier]

I don't know what one could submit as proof that would satisfy you. Maybe if when we first started going we would have created some sort of points system and meticulously kept records and gave points to each little line item on a spreadsheet we could have created, we would have some sort of physical data we could throw on a chart.

Honestly, I don't see how you could not see the difference if you have been going 16 years.

I know. How does one measure quality? Can you quantify it? It has to be experienced. But I haven't experienced it. My family has had magical, fantastic experiences on almost every trip, specifically because of CMs. Which is what I think about when I think about "service".


Those of us who visit frequently are probably the first to complain about a "decline" in service but part of the issue might actually be our frequent visits. We notice things that those who go only occasionally or who have never been before would never notice.

I am probably more disatisfied with some of the systems in which their staff need to work than I an with the service provided by the individuals with whom I interact while at Disney.

See, this is my theory. The more familiar you are with a person or a place, the more you see their flaws. The romance is gone, but you still love them/it. I still love Disney, but I am more likely to notice when stuff is broken, or when a CM is having a bad day. But if a ride is down, or if Disney starts charging extra for stuff, or if the parks are too crowded, that's not a reflection of the service. Those are other problems that definitely are worth complaining about.

But, to me, service is the interactions that I have with the people at Disney. The servers, the cashiers, those who run the rides, who clean the parks, who are at the help kiosks. In my 16 years of going, the only bad experience I can actually remember is the CM who was overzealous in keeping me from crossing during a parade (one of my first trips, and didn't realize it wasn't allowed, but totally my fault). He was doing his job and trying to keep me safe. But he could have been nicer about it. But, really, that's the only bad experience I can think of.

[markyv]

Three words describe the issue for our family. Fast Pass Plus. Disney vacations used to be magical when you could go there, wake up in the morning and decide what park you were going to and what restaurant you wanted reservations for. Those days are gone and so is the stress free vacation. Disney wants more money for less value and less attractions than is required for the size crowds that they are accepting. Fast Pass Plus is their attempt to route guests more efficiently in order to not have to add attractions, and I am sorry but a Frozen sing along is not an attraction. I am very turned off to WDW right now, and honestly don't plan on returning for a while.

[Stu29573]

Three words describe the issue for our family. Fast Pass Plus. Disney vacations used to be magical when you could go there, wake up in the morning and decide what park you were going to and what restaurant you wanted reservations for. Those days are gone and so is the stress free vacation. Disney wants more money for less value and less attractions than is required for the size crowds that they are accepting. Fast Pass Plus is their attempt to route guests more efficiently in order to not have to add attractions, and I am sorry but a Frozen sing along is not an attraction. I am very turned off to WDW right now, and honestly don't plan on returning for a while.

I agree....

[#1donaldfan]

I do not think the quality of the CM interaction or ride interactions are more or less from the first day I stepped in the first park. I do believe, as has been said, the luster has dulled some from the many trips and familiarity of it all. Like mentioned, the honeymoon stage is over and it's becoming common place to be there and we do see things a bit more cynical. Of course we've all had bad CM's or a bad experience while eating or riding, but the way Disney comes on stage every single day coupled with the amount of visitors; it's no wonder some paint might be found chipped or peeled or a human CM may not be as sweet or giving to our "selfish", "me first" way of thinking that particular day. We are very much accustomed to walking onto any Disney property and instantly made to feel like royalty, when in fact we are as much normal as the CM who might be having a terrible day, week or even year. So, yea, I'd say (generally) it's pretty much the same as my first day there, just WAY more expensive and WAY longer lines therefore chipping away at the rose colored glasses I view them through ....

[baldburke]

Three words describe the issue for our family. Fast Pass Plus. Disney vacations used to be magical when you could go there, wake up in the morning and decide what park you were going to and what restaurant you wanted reservations for. Those days are gone and so is the stress free vacation. Disney wants more money for less value and less attractions than is required for the size crowds that they are accepting. Fast Pass Plus is their attempt to route guests more efficiently in order to not have to add attractions, and I am sorry but a Frozen sing along is not an attraction. I am very turned off to WDW right now, and honestly don't plan on returning for a while.

It certainly isn't hurting attendance, but as other have noted it is all about personal perception. Us? We will FP+ and do see how possible future enhancements could make it an even better system.

I'm sure almost all of us compare back to that first visit regardless of what decade it was and still treat it as the benchmark for comparison. I was 10 when I first went back in the early 80s. Was it magical? Yes! Was I amazed? Yes! Did it have problems? Probably. Did I notice them? No. Would I want to go back a relive the 1980s WDW (one park) today? Probably not.

For it sheer size Disney does an incredible job of delivering a top notch experience. It's not perfect, but overall it comes close. Our trips have changed as we come more frequently and as the kids have grown. We're there for the Disney experience between the resorts, the amenities, the food, the shopping....oh and the parks. We think Disney provides great delivery, but that's just our perception.

[tinkx2]

I sat here and read everyone's response and in my humble opinion the answer to your question is --NO. If you read some of the post on this site you see people asking about crowds, making reservations, lines, and special events (Mickey's Merry Christmas & Halloween). If people thought that Disney has declining the responses wouldn't be that the parks are crowded, it's tuff making dinner reservations, the lines are long and special events are crowded. No one likes change especially with things that make you happy, but like other things in life the cost of EVERYTHING goes up and there will be change. If Disney were declining do you think the die hard Disney fans would keep paying the money? If you don't think that Disney is the best, has the best CM, the cleanest park, are the most accommodating to their guest, then go to another amusement park around where you live and compare. I live about an hour away from one and about 3 hours from another and to me they are both a joke compared to Disney. The one that is an hour away I haven't be to in about 15 years.

The final thing I have to say on EPCOT being like Detroit and empty building is a quote from Walt "Disneyland will never be completed. It will continue to grow as long as there is imagination left in the world".

Again this is my humble opinion... hope this helps.

[mrte62]

I always thought that Kevin Yee's blog "Declining By Degrees" offered some interesting insight into this topic.

[azcavalier]

Three words describe the issue for our family. Fast Pass Plus. Disney vacations used to be magical when you could go there, wake up in the morning and decide what park you were going to and what restaurant you wanted reservations for. Those days are gone and so is the stress free vacation. Disney wants more money for less value and less attractions than is required for the size crowds that they are accepting. Fast Pass Plus is their attempt to route guests more efficiently in order to not have to add attractions, and I am sorry but a Frozen sing along is not an attraction. I am very turned off to WDW right now, and honestly don't plan on returning for a while.

But is that service? I don't think it is. Value, yes. Declining value I absolutely agree is an issue. But it's the argument that I hear people making about how the service isn't as good as it used to be that makes me mad.

[SBETigg]

I know there's a lot of grief about Fastpass Plus. Yes, things are different. We live in a different world. Your experience is diminished, you may feel, but others feel it has been enhanced. It's an arguable difference. And when people are unhappy, they tend to accuse Disney (in business to make money, even when Walt was in charge) of doing it all to make money while providing less value and trying to route guests without having to add new attractions. It couldn't possibly be their idea of providing a better guest experience (thus again, helping them make more money). With the new system, they can see where guests want to spend their time, which attractions are more/less popular, which will have less wait time, maybe help you find something new you haven't experienced, and figure out which new attractions to add (and they are adding, always). They know where we are spending money and time thus where to staff more heavily to counter crowds. It not all always to pull a fast one on the paying guest. They know they make more money when we are happy and spending money. It's not hard to see the results as far as it benefits them, especially now that guests can be tracked and monitored. If they were disappointing guests in great numbers and making less money, things would change fast.

I honestly do like the new Fastpass Plus and Magic Bands. It took me some time to get used to, yes. But I've always been a planner and I much prefer getting what I want without having to run to the attractions to get fast passes (get to that park early in case they run out!) and return later to ride. This last trip, I spent more time relaxed, knowing what my day would be like, and less time sweating the small stuff. And my family? They had no idea the planning I went through to make it all seem easy for them. Fortunately, they trusted my vision and went along. If you're not an advance planner, yeah, it's not ideal. But Disney trips have taken some planning since my first trip in 81.

Is the new system perfect? No. It needs some tweaks. I would like to be able to get more Fastpasses without going to a kiosk in the park and maybe make some Fastpasses for two parks at one time. And be less limited in my choices. Was the old system perfect? No. Standing in lines to put everyone's ticket into the FP machine and hope they all came out okay. Visiting each big attraction twice, one to get the FP and one to return to ride. Getting to parks early if you wanted certain FPs to make sure they didn't run out. And then as now, we had people complaining that Disney just wanted our money, wanted to provide less value for our money, and they weren't building new attractions fast enough.

[DisneyDadfromPittsburgh]

I do think a lot of this is in the eye of the beholder and what each of us personally consider to be poor service. I can say I fall into the category that I don't think Disney has fallen from grace regarding putting their best customer service front and forward.
Each time we have been there I feel like we have been well taken cared of with the Disney staff from getting on the Magical Express to checking in to being at the parks.
I respect each person's opinion regarding the status of poor service. I don't think any of us are happy with increasing prices or a change in operations regarding fast pass or other items that change over the years but not much we a visitors can do about it other than enjoy it while you are there.
My two cents for the day also................

[SurferStitch]

DH and I have been going at least yearly, if not twice a year, since 1996. I have to admit, I think service has actually improved over the past 5 years! We've found CM's to be friendlier, more open to conversation, incredibly helpful, and just full of magic! We've been very impressed with the service we've received at WDW.

Now, value? Well, value for what you pay has declined... in certain areas, not all. For example, MNSSHP is just too expensive for what we find we get anymore. I'm not paying over $200 for the two of us to go to the same party they've had for years. I don't really care about missing the Sanderson Sisters... I watched the vid online. The parade is the same, I can see the fireworks from the resorts and I can live without the cookies and hot chocolate.

We still love the dining at WDW because we are always thrilled with our signature restaurants, and still manage to be surprised at how some meals are really above and beyond what we were expecting. It's expensive, but we find with our TiW discount, it's quite acceptable.

[Bass T-bone]

I think it's natural to expect better (or at least maintained) service with higher prices factored in.
Even back in the day, if something didn't go exactly right... service wise, you were compensated somehow; free desert. free ticket... something!

[snowflakegirl]

Is the new system perfect? No. It needs some tweaks. I would like to be able to get more Fastpasses without going to a kiosk in the park and maybe make some Fastpasses for two parks at one time. And be less limited in my choices. Was the old system perfect? No. Standing in lines to put everyone's ticket into the FP machine and hope they all came out okay.

I agree...the system is not perfect, but I don't dislike it quite as much as I anticipated disliking it before our first trip with the new system.

Just wanted to note that this past trip in April, we discovered that some changes had been made. We were able to book our additional FP+ from my phone when we were in the parks. Which was nice some evenings when we were able to make a FP+ for something for 20-30 minutes later, go get a ride in and then go back for our FP+. We also discovered that as long as we used our initial 3 FP+ reservations in whatever park we started our day at, we were able to make our additional ones (still one at a time) in whatever park we ended up in that evening.

The official line on the Disney site now is : "Use the First 3, Then Get More
Once you redeem your initial set of FastPass+ selections (or the last arrival window has passed), you can make another FastPass+ selection for the same day at an in-park kiosk or using your mobile device, up to park closing. After you redeem the additional FastPass+ pick, you can return to a kiosk to make more selections (one at a time).

If your ticket includes a Park Hopper Option, after you use your initial FastPass+ selections at the first park, you’ll be able to make additional FastPass+ selections (one at a time) at the second park you visit that day, up to park closing. Just visit a kiosk or using your mobile device to make the additional selections."

[mandaep]

I honestly feel like each person's experience and perception is going to be the basis for their experience. We've had bad experiences in the past but this past trip was near perfect. We consider ourselves lucky to have such an amazing trip. WDW is amazing and all but they can only do so much because we still live in the real world. Yes they train their employees to a certain degree but they are not responsible for every individual reaction or word that comes out of their mouths. CM also have to bear the brunt of unhappy people who may be unhappy just because they chose so. For example a visitor was mad at a CM at writers stop bc he 'didn't like the set up they had' and he was quite rude to them and treated them like it was their fault. Like yeah maybe things are a little different but that person acted like a child and created a less than savory environment for the people around him. It's a store at a theme park, dude. You are so lucky you get to even go to a theme park. Enjoy what is around you and live up the magic and create it for yourself because its a mindset. And if you don't think that a store in a theme park is worth your money then don't pay the money for the theme park and don't come back.

[MNNHFLTX]

I don't think the service has suffered, as a whole. However, in my opinion, that is not enough to offset the nickel-and-dime mentality that Disney has adopted through the years. Memorable experiences that used to be a part of regular admission are now a separate charge (if you choose to do so). Perhaps the added cost and extra planning leads to increased expectations on the guest part, as far as service. I don't think that's hard to understand; when so much time and money is invested in a vacation you expect it to knock your socks off. If it's a mindset, it's one that Disney has cultivated, IMO.

[i'm grumpy]

FP + is the pits if you don't have a smart phone. We spent a lot of time going from kiosk to kiosk. I thought even the QS food prices were ridiculous. The food wasn't that great. The bus waits at night were awful.

[Terra]

I honestly feel like each person's experience and perception is going to be the basis for their experience. We've had bad experiences in the past but this past trip was near perfect. We consider ourselves lucky to have such an amazing trip. WDW is amazing and all but they can only do so much because we still live in the real world. Yes they train their employees to a certain degree but they are not responsible for every individual reaction or word that comes out of their mouths. CM also have to bear the brunt of unhappy people who may be unhappy just because they chose so. For example a visitor was mad at a CM at writers stop bc he 'didn't like the set up they had' and he was quite rude to them and treated them like it was their fault. Like yeah maybe things are a little different but that person acted like a child and created a less than savory environment for the people around him. It's a store at a theme park, dude. You are so lucky you get to even go to a theme park. Enjoy what is around you and live up the magic and create it for yourself because its a mindset. And if you don't think that a store in a theme park is worth your money then don't pay the money for the theme park and don't come back.

I could not agree with more. I've been to Disneyland several times as a child. And I've been going to WDW since 1999, so 16 years now. We have been AP holders that whole time. We go at least monthly if not more.
I haven't noticed a decline in magic or service. Have things changed? Of course, that's the one sure thing in life. Do I miss some of the old stuff? Of course. But I also love the new stuff.
I go into it with the mindset as an escape from reality and submerse myself in the magic.
I have been going since before I was married with children. And my children have been going since they were less than a month old.
And especially for my special needs son the CM always make it so magical for him.

I think for us, even now WDW means so much more. My son [like many of you know has ASD/SPD/Anxiety, and he also had ITP and is currently undergoing chemo]. Due to his health, so many doctor appointments, another personal things, I had to begin staying home and I am also homeschooling him.
So we are once again a single income household. My husband is an ESE teacher.
We had to make cuts and sacrifices and one of them was our AP passes [well for me and the boys, my DH hates Disney [for shame! LOL] ]
And I miss it so much, my boys miss it so much. So in the grand scheme of things for myself and my family. There are just more important things to worry about than "why did they change this or do that."
I'd give anything to be able to give my sons that magic back, but it is what it is.

[ThanxForNoticin]

Overall, I would contend that service has not declined over the years. There still are great people working at Disney as there were decades ago when we first starting going. And there are still the rare negative "less-than-Disney" type cast members, as there were decades ago when we started going!

Every trip we start out planning, hoping for that perfect trip. Sometimes we come close. Sometimes we don't. But I think sometimes the things that make it less than perfect are actually out of Disney's control - the flight down is delayed or the rental car is messed up or the weather isn't ideal or something has us distracted back home. But we still love the Disney resorts, parks, restaurants, shops,.... and a very large majority of the Disney cast members. We find those cast members still try to make our stay as magical as possible. And with the craziness of the real world so much of the year, we still seek out the special feeling we get vacationing with Mickey and friends!

[deedee73]

I haven't been in quite some time however I was discussing this with several people yesterday that travel often - we believe the service is not declining but perhaps has reached a more stressed point. More people & the same number if not fewer CMs being stretched & therefore stressed out perhaps coming off as service declining. I think the lovely conversations & loads of time CMs once had to actually interact with guests is a thing of the past and if not it is definitely becoming more of a rarity.

[TheVBs]

Good point about value vs. service. Value decreasing doesn't automatically equate to service decreasing. And, the "making it right" attitude is still there in our experience. After our last two trips there were things that didn't go smoothly that I offered suggestions on in surveys. They weren't even complaints, and each time they were one small part of what was otherwise overwhelmingly positive feedback. Both times someone from Disney called us and insisted on offering us something to make it up to us.

[TikiLounger]

I can't really point to any ways that the service in Disney has suffered over the years, but I CAN tell you that the quality of what I see has suffered. We've visited many, many times in the last 20 or so years and I've watched the little things I loved about the place gradually disappear. Back when we first started visiting, one would be hard pressed to find a piece of trash in a queue line or public area. By comparison, during our last few trips especially, I was appalled by the messes I saw almost everywhere. Gum, water bottles, maps, food trash, even dirty diapers in the Big Thunder Mountain queue line AND thrown over onto the scenic portions of the ride itself? Wow. How about the really annoying array of hair elastics left on Expedition Everest right at the point where we see that the tracks have been broken and we're about to plummet backwards? To me, this is inexcusable. Theming and attention to detail are what Disney was known for and, for people like us who notice these things, appreciate these things, and love these things, it's upsetting to see them fade away into our memory of what Disney used to be like.

Also, I know that many aren't thrilled with Fastpass Plus (personally, I don't like it, but I'm giving it a chance), I honestly believe that everything started changing for the worst when Disney implemented the Dining Plan. Food before the dining plan was fun and we looked forward to having our favorite treats during each trip. It was part of the anticipation. Now? TERRIBLE quick service food adds nothing to our trip. We simply eat because we have to, and that's it.

But, I love Disney World. Always will. We roll with what changes and see the magic where we can. There's still plenty of magic at the happiest place on Earth.

[i'm grumpy]

We had a good time, but things could be better. Why are some people such slobs? There are trash cans everywhere. The one Fantasmic per night was a disaster. FP+ is the pits without a phone. The food court was out of an item for 2 days. The hotel had a foul odor. Several rides had issues.

[Stickey]

We have experienced very good to excellent service at WDW since we began visiting regularly 12 years ago. We have noticed that the cm's often do not have time to add special touches. For example, when celebrating a birthday/anniversary, you would often receive a card and Mickey glitter on your table. There has been a more substantial decrease in value in recent years. In addition, the rising crowd levels diminish the quality of your WDW experience.

We were visiting family in FL in the beginning April, and were flying out of MCO. We added a few days at WDW prior to departure. MK was overrun, like Hershel's farm, and it was difficult to do many rides. Wishes is now complete chaos. Epcot was a bit less hectic, however FP+ has created long waits in rides such as Spaceship Earth and Pirates. The decline in guest behavior is very evident.

[azcavalier]

There has been a more substantial decrease in value in recent years. In addition, the rising crowd levels diminish the quality of your WDW experience.

Wishes is now complete chaos. Epcot was a bit less hectic, however FP+ has created long waits in rides such as Spaceship Earth and Pirates. The decline in guest behavior is very evident.

Yeah, totally agree. And I think that people then equate this with "service". But really, it's something else. My overall Disney experience isn't nearly as good as it was when I first started coming. It always seems more crowded, and with rising prices and changes to the dining plan (which we still get), the value has declined. And it's frustrating to have to wait for things that never used to have a long wait, such as Spaceship Earth. We think that we've figured out FP+ well enough that we can deal with it, but we still prefer the old system.

That said, we still love our WDW trips. We're going in Sept. and again in the spring. And possibly inbetween (for a conference). We still love the atmosphere in the resorts and in the parks. We find that the quality of the food is still pretty good, and are looking forward to trying out some new places like Boma on our next trip.

[WiltonJohn]

The decline in guest behavior is very evident.

I think that is the "cut to the chase" comment.

best,

...............john

[Daisy'sMom]

We had a good time, but things could be better. Why are some people such slobs? There are trash cans everywhere. The one Fantasmic per night was a disaster. FP+ is the pits without a phone. The food court was out of an item for 2 days. The hotel had a foul odor. Several rides had issues.

I have been going to Disney since 1971. Believe me, we have seen so many changes. It's gone from a wonderful experience to an average theme park visit. I remember when the little things, like cast members walking around with little sweepers, picking up anything and everything. I remember when you didn't see cast members carrying lunch packs, and purses, on their way to break. I remember when you could walk into a restroom that was spotless and each bathroom had an attendant. You never saw chipped paint, dust. Cast members never looked messy, each one was dressed, tucked, ironed. Now things are average, empty buildings, dust, walks are not clean. Cast members have their phones, texting away, or having conversations with other cast members. Fast food places are not that great. To view parades or fireworks now, you have to pay for a prime spot. They raise the prices, cut back on the people that are essential to their business, the cast members that work in the parks. They have focused on moving guests like cattle, guests now make spreadsheets so they can run from ride to ride. Fast passes for FL residents are few and far between. I'm not going to get excited about the new things Disney is planning. I was so disappointed in the Fantasyland addition. We got a mermaid ride that mimics the Nemo ride at Epcot, another Dumbo, the Seven Dwarfs ride that is thunder mountain railroad with little people and an overpriced restaurant. So I'm not going to let myself hope they will give us something new.
I have always been the biggest Disney fanatic. Don't get me wrong, I still adore Disney but I also am not blind to their faults. I wanted to cry a couple of years ago, when we went to Universal after years of not going. It was wonderful, it was like the old Disney. I felt so disloyal because I had to admit that they had risen above in a few areas.
I'm still an annual passholder, and I will always love Disney. But I am disappointed with what has happened since Iger took over.

[ChipNDale79]

Three words describe the issue for our family. Fast Pass Plus. Disney vacations used to be magical when you could go there, wake up in the morning and decide what park you were going to and what restaurant you wanted reservations for. Those days are gone and so is the stress free vacation. Disney wants more money for less value and less attractions than is required for the size crowds that they are accepting. Fast Pass Plus is their attempt to route guests more efficiently in order to not have to add attractions, and I am sorry but a Frozen sing along is not an attraction. I am very turned off to WDW right now, and honestly don't plan on returning for a while.

This.

Planning a vacation almost requires a Project Management Certification today. So many things have to be juggled, and timelines laid out in order to do what you want. I don't really want to break out an excel spreadsheet to plan a vacation, I have to use excel enough at work, I want to escape that. Disney is finally putting money into WDW with the new attractions coming on line over the next 5 years, but the lack of investment and adding new things is absurd. The fact that we have tiered fast passes at some of the parks is proof that those parks do not have enough for guests to do.

Parks are over crowded because Disney has neglected WDW and failed to add new attractions to absorb those crowds.

[ChipNDale79]

I can't really point to any ways that the service in Disney has suffered over the years, but I CAN tell you that the quality of what I see has suffered. We've visited many, many times in the last 20 or so years and I've watched the little things I loved about the place gradually disappear. Back when we first started visiting, one would be hard pressed to find a piece of trash in a queue line or public area. By comparison, during our last few trips especially, I was appalled by the messes I saw almost everywhere. Gum, water bottles, maps, food trash, even dirty diapers in the Big Thunder Mountain queue line AND thrown over onto the scenic portions of the ride itself? Wow. How about the really annoying array of hair elastics left on Expedition Everest right at the point where we see that the tracks have been broken and we're about to plummet backwards? To me, this is inexcusable. Theming and attention to detail are what Disney was known for and, for people like us who notice these things, appreciate these things, and love these things, it's upsetting to see them fade away into our memory of what Disney used to be like.

Also, I know that many aren't thrilled with Fastpass Plus (personally, I don't like it, but I'm giving it a chance), I honestly believe that everything started changing for the worst when Disney implemented the Dining Plan. Food before the dining plan was fun and we looked forward to having our favorite treats during each trip. It was part of the anticipation. Now? TERRIBLE quick service food adds nothing to our trip. We simply eat because we have to, and that's it.

But, I love Disney World. Always will. We roll with what changes and see the magic where we can. There's still plenty of magic at the happiest place on Earth.

On a trip a few years ago I noticed a plastic coke bottle that someone tossed into the ride on Splash Mountain, right next to one of the Brer Rabbit animatronics. When we rode it a few days later, it was still there. I've noticed the same type of thing in It's a Small World as well.

I get that you're going to see trash sometimes, especially in areas where you can't just grab it, like on a ride, however it should be cleaned up when the park is closed. There's no excuse for trash to lay around in full view for days.

[TikiLounger]

Yes, exactly. I know it's unrealistic to except that trash be picked up instantly in hard to access areas, but what happened to all the after hours clean up? Trash left to pile up for days is upsetting. I also remember that years ago, cast members with brooms and dust pans walked the parks and constantly cleaned up trash from the queue lines and public areas. I don't see nearly as many now. I know I'm probably ranting at this point, but my other question is, why is there so much trash floating around, anyway? There are plenty of trash cans all over the parks. I know that stray trash happens...items get absentmindedly dropped, but this can't account for all of it. I guess it's just easier for lazy people to drop it than to walk to the nearest trash can.

[baldburke]

I think that is the "cut to the chase" comment.

best,

...............john

It's interesting that you say that. It's just an observation and I have no factual evidence to back it up, but it seems as though some people just have it in for Disney as a response to either Disney's image or perhaps what they're being charged by Disney (again perceived value).

Seriously...how many people drop their trash on the ground and say, "Oh well..Disney has people to clean that up."

The other side is how many people just down right desecrate the Disney facilities? Some are partial owners via DVC and some are partial owners via stock, but we're all essentially guests. Would we treat our own homes like that or people think it's okay to mar walls and furniture? I don't care if it's Disney, the Ritz-Carlton or a Red Roof Inn, I try to respect the property.

Maybe it's parents who think they are obliged to fulfill "The American Dream" and take their kids to Disney, but don't really want to be there? Or maybe it's parents who either don't teach their children respect and/or care about their children's behavior?

Maybe I'm just getting old?

[Isabella]

The only consistent decline in service that we have experienced is in Mousekeeping.

In three different resorts, All Star Music, Riverside French Quarter, and Coronado Springs, on three separate trips.

There was always a day or two where Mousekeeping was not done at all or towels not replaced, or beds not made (I usually pull the covers up so it's neat, so maybe they thought I didn't want it made completely?), or... That is contrasted with previous trips where we couldn't leave a big enough tip because they went way above and beyond. The "oops" in Mousekeeping just seemed to get more frequent.

But we've solved all that by becoming DVC members where there is no Mouskeeping for the most part! :funny: Seriously though I do like DVC and the sense of "home", and make my bed every day!

[disney daddy]

This.

Planning a vacation almost requires a Project Management Certification today. So many things have to be juggled, and timelines laid out in order to do what you want. I don't really want to break out an excel spreadsheet to plan a vacation, I have to use excel enough at work, I want to escape that. Disney is finally putting money into WDW with the new attractions coming on line over the next 5 years, but the lack of investment and adding new things is absurd. The fact that we have tiered fast passes at some of the parks is proof that those parks do not have enough for guests to do.

Parks are over crowded because Disney has neglected WDW and failed to add new attractions to absorb those crowds.

Based on your signature, you seem to like neglected theme parks that do not have enough for guests to do. We all must see that the glass is at least half full and that the value is still there or we wouldn't be going so frequently. We need to have our expectations better match what a corporate theme park, in business to make profits, is capable of providing. Not trying to make waves, just being realistic.

[wxsmwhrms]

I don't compare Disney service against itself from 20 years ago - I compare it to the entertainment and hospitality experiences I get outside of Disney. And the quality of service my family still receives in our annual trips to WDW are by far the best we get the entire year. But having said that, we've been going regularly since 1996, and I don't feel the service has noticeably waned. And personally, we love FP+; I would much rather have to plan a bit and walk on to Soarin' than wait 2 and a half hours in line.

[WiltonJohn]

Maybe what is being experienced here is the changed nature of the Guests behaviors in the X years everyone has been going. Those behaviors impact many, many things..... very much including the Cast member's stress levels.

best,

.................john

[baldburke]

And personally, we love FP+; I would much rather have to plan a bit and walk on to Soarin' than wait 2 and a half hours in line.

Two thumbs up here too! Who misses having to run the the kiosk to claim your passes only to find they're distributing Jungle Cruise tickets for 5:45pm and you have dinner plans for Epcot at 6:30pm. Plus being able to add or make changes on the fly from the app is priceless!

[MississippiDisneyFreak]

My first trip was in 2003, for the most part I think the excellent service has been maintained. However, it seems like that first trip everywhere you looked there was a CM sweeping, cleaning the bathroom etc... and we never saw even one dirty bathroom. Now I do admit we come across a few restrooms that are a little dirty and we don't see as many people cleaning. That's probably the only thing we've noticed and its not extreme, with the number of people in the parks I am still amazed at how clean they manage to keep the parks.

[Arielfan98]

I also noticed the food quality go down....the QS restaurants don't serve burgers like they used to.

[azcavalier]

I also noticed the food quality go down....the QS restaurants don't serve burgers like they used to.

I'm not sure how to take that. Do you mean that the QS restaurants no longer serve burgers? In which case I would argue that makes the food quality go up. Or do you mean that, of those QS restaurants that DO serve burgers, that the quality of said burgers is much worse than it used to be?

[i'm grumpy]

The burgers we had at Liberty Inn were awful. They had a strange taste to them.

[Arielfan98]

I'm not sure how to take that. Do you mean that the QS restaurants no longer serve burgers? In which case I would argue that makes the food quality go up. Or do you mean that, of those QS restaurants that DO serve burgers, that the quality of said burgers is much worse than it used to be?

I'm saying the burgers are not as good as they used to be. I remember going to ABC Commissary and the cheeseburgers were delicious. Since 2010ish, the burgers in all QS locations are lacking.

[MNNHFLTX]

Based on your signature, you seem to like neglected theme parks that do not have enough for guests to do. We all must see that the glass is at least half full and that the value is still there or we wouldn't be going so frequently. We need to have our expectations better match what a corporate theme park, in business to make profits, is capable of providing. Not trying to make waves, just being realistic.

I disagree. The Disney corporation set the bar themselves years ago and earned a loyal following. It is that loyalty and reputation that has carried them through recent years, not necessarily because they have maintained or increased the quality of their brand (and yes, they certainly have not increased the value!) They continue to attract new visitors because they have no point of comparison, but to many of the repeat visitors they have lost a bit of the magic. The glass is not half-full anymore to me and this has been reflected in how often I go to Disney parks these days.

[i'm grumpy]

I'm saying the burgers are not as good as they used to be. I remember going to ABC Commissary and the cheeseburgers were delicious. Since 2010ish, the burgers in all QS locations are lacking.

Yes, lacking in taste and toppings. :ack:

[Arielfan98]

Yes, lacking in taste and toppings. :ack:

Even the salad at Backlot Express declined. I went this past January and my whole family got sick from it because the salad dressing had fake garlic in it. Yuck :ack:

[i'm grumpy]

Even the salad at Backlot Express declined. I went this past January and my whole family got sick from it because the salad dressing had fake garlic in it. Yuck :ack:
Is garlic so expensive they have use fake? They stopped making the turkey sandwich and I'm not paying $14 for a burger.

[disney daddy]

I disagree. The Disney corporation set the bar themselves years ago and earned a loyal following. It is that loyalty and reputation that has carried them through recent years, not necessarily because they have maintained or increased the quality of their brand (and yes, they certainly have not increased the value!) They continue to attract new visitors because they have no point of comparison, but to many of the repeat visitors they have lost a bit of the magic. The glass is not half-full anymore to me and this has been reflected in how often I go to Disney parks these days.

I am sorry that you feel that way. Still seems that there is a strong loyal following. It's difficult to understand why you don't see that the bar remains extremely high. I think that they most certainly have increased the value of their brand. Evidently not to you, but their brand has continued to increase throughout the years. Sorry if you don't like Star Wars and Frozen, but recently they have increased the value of their brand significantly. That is why demand is so high. I agree with you that they have no point of comparison, but I take that to mean that they have no peers and that seems to contradict your other point about maintaining or increasing the value.

My kids are mid to late teens now. Every year, expecting to hear something different, I am surprised by their desire to want to go back to WDW. We change up our personal itinerary every time we go, which does require some planning, to keep it fresh. Recently, there always seems to be something new in the parks and that is happening because Disney Parks is investing capital in the parks to keep them relevant, fresh and to keep them from having a point of comparison to other theme parks.

WDW is a world class vacation destination, not just a series of theme parks. Maybe you are romanticizing the way things were as things always seem bigger, better, and more exciting when we're younger and first experience them.

Is it ridiculous to wait three hours to visit Anna and Elsa, yes? Is it also crazy to wait five hours to ride Frozen Ever After? Uh huh. But if the demand wasn't there, it wouldn't be happening. So, it looks like more and more people each year think it's worth it.

I can appreciate both sides of a discussion, but I think you're being overcritical. I think my family has a good perspective since we have visited the parks in every decade since the 70s. BTW, in 1978, you had to use tickets to get on rides (A B C D and E). Each ride was a certain ticket, the popular ones being E tickets and the least popular being A tickets. Well guess what, the tickets books sold only had a limited number of E tickets and you'd have to buy more as you desired (granted, there was no admission fee). There were also half the rides, no additional parks, fewer hotels, no extravagant shows, etc. The parks continue to be clean and safe. Where else can you leave a camera bag on a stroller and walk away? There has been a lot of value built in WDW since it opened in 1971. People have been complaining since the first day because it was and continues to be expensive.

My glass remains almost completely full and we'll continue to make the pilgrimage as long as the kids want to and then my wife and I will probably come back without the kids (though not as often). I hope you rediscover the joy of WDW again.

And just to make one quick comment on the burgers and such. Who goes to WDW for fast food and expects it to be fine dining? It's a fast food hamburger.

[Arielfan98]

I am sorry that you feel that way. Still seems that there is a strong loyal following. It's difficult to understand why you don't see that the bar remains extremely high. I think that they most certainly have increased the value of their brand. Evidently not to you, but their brand has continued to increase throughout the years. Sorry if you don't like Star Wars and Frozen, but recently they have increased the value of their brand significantly. That is why demand is so high. I agree with you that they have no point of comparison, but I take that to mean that they have no peers and that seems to contradict your other point about maintaining or increasing the value.

My kids are mid to late teens now. Every year, expecting to hear something different, I am surprised by their desire to want to go back to WDW. We change up our personal itinerary every time we go, which does require some planning, to keep it fresh. Recently, there always seems to be something new in the parks and that is happening because Disney Parks is investing capital in the parks to keep them relevant, fresh and to keep them from having a point of comparison to other theme parks.

WDW is a world class vacation destination, not just a series of theme parks. Maybe you are romanticizing the way things were as things always seem bigger, better, and more exciting when we're younger and first experience them.

Is it ridiculous to wait three hours to visit Anna and Elsa, yes? Is it also crazy to wait five hours to ride Frozen Ever After? Uh huh. But if the demand wasn't there, it wouldn't be happening. So, it looks like more and more people each year think it's worth it.

I can appreciate both sides of a discussion, but I think you're being overcritical. I think my family has a good perspective since we have visited the parks in every decade since the 70s. BTW, in 1978, you had to use tickets to get on rides (A B C D and E). Each ride was a certain ticket, the popular ones being E tickets and the least popular being A tickets. Well guess what, the tickets books sold only had a limited number of E tickets and you'd have to buy more as you desired (granted, there was no admission fee). There were also half the rides, no additional parks, fewer hotels, no extravagant shows, etc. The parks continue to be clean and safe. Where else can you leave a camera bag on a stroller and walk away? There has been a lot of value built in WDW since it opened in 1971. People have been complaining since the first day because it was and continues to be expensive.

My glass remains almost completely full and we'll continue to make the pilgrimage as long as the kids want to and then my wife and I will probably come back without the kids (though not as often). I hope you rediscover the joy of WDW again.

And just to make one quick comment on the burgers and such. Who goes to WDW for fast food and expects it to be fine dining? It's a fast food hamburger.

Well I was talking about QS food in general, but their burgers were the first noticed to go downhill. I have gone to Disney many years like yourself and have known "Disney fast food" to be excellent. It is like none other. For a real world comparison, there is a difference between a 5 Guys/ In N' Out Burger to a Mcdonalds or Burger King burger. Disney used to make great cheeseburgers that were very good. Also when I go to 6 Flags or any other amusement park, they offer cheap, overpriced greasy burgers and hotdogs. But at Disney you can go to Columbia Harbour House and get fish or get sushi at Japan in EPCOT or farm to table at The Seasons and it is this sort of high quality QS food I have come to love at Disney, even the burgers. If I want fine dining I certainly do go to the signature restaurants. I'm just trying to state that Disney makes higher quality QS food.

[disney daddy]

Well I was talking about QS food in general, but their burgers were the first noticed to go downhill. I have gone to Disney many years like yourself and have known "Disney fast food" to be excellent. It is like none other. For a real world comparison, there is a difference between a 5 Guys/ In N' Out Burger to a Mcdonalds or Burger King burger. Disney used to make great cheeseburgers that were very good. Also when I go to 6 Flags or any other amusement park, they offer cheap, overpriced greasy burgers and hotdogs. But at Disney you can go to Columbia Harbour House and get fish or get sushi at Japan in EPCOT or farm to table at The Seasons and it is this sort of high quality QS food I have come to love at Disney, even the burgers. If I want fine dining I certainly do go to the signature restaurants. I'm just trying to state that Disney makes higher quality QS food.

I generally agree that the QS food is of good quality. My point was that if you think about how many burgers WDW serves in a day, it is near impossible to keep everything fresh. Some burgers are going to sit under heat lamps longer than others and some will sit on buns wrapped in foil longer. By comparison, any individual McDonald's or Burger King does remarkably less volume. Burgers in certain parts may be better because of volume, but I don't expect high quality from the QS meals, just adequate enough to keep the family fueled. I do expect high quality food and service from the TS meals and though some are better than others (menu vs. buffet), the TS meals never disappoint.

[Arielfan98]

I generally agree that the QS food is of good quality. My point was that if you think about how many burgers WDW serves in a day, it is near impossible to keep everything fresh. Some burgers are going to sit under heat lamps longer than others and some will sit on buns wrapped in foil longer. By comparison, any individual McDonald's or Burger King does remarkably less volume. Burgers in certain parts may be better because of volume, but I don't expect high quality from the QS meals, just adequate enough to keep the family fueled. I do expect high quality food and service from the TS meals and though some are better than others (menu vs. buffet), the TS meals never disappoint.

Actually, what I was getting at was the type of burgers, not how it's prepared. Didn't Disney change their food service company at one point in the 2000s? Thought I read it somewhere....

[MNNHFLTX]

I am sorry that you feel that way. Still seems that there is a strong loyal following. It's difficult to understand why you don't see that the bar remains extremely high. I think that they most certainly have increased the value of their brand. Evidently not to you, but their brand has continued to increase throughout the years. Sorry if you don't like Star Wars and Frozen, but recently they have increased the value of their brand significantly. That is why demand is so high. I agree with you that they have no point of comparison, but I take that to mean that they have no peers and that seems to contradict your other point about maintaining or increasing the value.

Recently, there always seems to be something new in the parks and that is happening because Disney Parks is investing capital in the parks to keep them relevant, fresh and to keep them from having a point of comparison to other theme parks.

WDW is a world class vacation destination, not just a series of theme parks. Maybe you are romanticizing the way things were as things always seem bigger, better, and more exciting when we're younger and first experience them.

I can appreciate both sides of a discussion, but I think you're being overcritical. I think my family has a good perspective since we have visited the parks in every decade since the 70s. BTW, in 1978, you had to use tickets to get on rides (A B C D and E). Each ride was a certain ticket, the popular ones being E tickets and the least popular being A tickets. Well guess what, the tickets books sold only had a limited number of E tickets and you'd have to buy more as you desired (granted, there was no admission fee). There were also half the rides, no additional parks, fewer hotels, no extravagant shows, etc. The parks continue to be clean and safe. Where else can you leave a camera bag on a stroller and walk away? There has been a lot of value built in WDW since it opened in 1971. People have been complaining since the first day because it was and continues to be expensive.

My glass remains almost completely full and we'll continue to make the pilgrimage as long as the kids want to and then my wife and I will probably come back without the kids (though not as often). I hope you rediscover the joy of WDW again.

I can appreciate your point of view, but I'm afraid that I just don't see things the same way. I actually think I have a pretty good perspective on things; my family also first went to WDW in the 70's, when everything was certainly state-of-the-art for theme parks. I also lived in Orlando/Central Florida from 1984-1990 and then again from 1993-2005 and had a Florida Resident Pass most of those years. That's when I came to love Disney World so much (and hence came to be an INTERCOT staff member back in 2001). I still love it, but I don't think all the changes are for good. The technology is still there but the bulk of it is being applied toward the MyMagic+, designed to keep patrons tethered to the parks. New attractions/ideas are often painfully slow to progress and the old attractions are sometimes left to languish.

Yes, I am nostalgic, but not for the attractions as much as the atmosphere. That you would walk to the end of Main Street into Central Plaza, which had a homey feel to it; since the plaza expansion, it just feels like one big parking lot for fireworks viewing. Which I guess makes sense in a way, but I hate it. That's just one example of what I'm talking about. It's why I love Disneyland so much, since it still has that intimate, cozy feel that I miss at Disney World.

I'm not trying to convince you to agree with me, your viewpoint is your own. And I certainly still have a lot of love for the place, but I don't feel compelled to go there like I used to. Which is okay, because there are a lot of great places out in the world to see. :)

[MNNHFLTX]

I agree with you that they have no point of comparison, but I take that to mean that they have no peers and that seems to contradict your other point about maintaining or increasing the value.
I actually meant that people going for the first time to WDW have no point of comparison, as far as value and experience, since they have never been there before.

[DonaldDuck1117]

Honestly, I think the price is having an affect on people's opinions/perspective. The more people spend on something the more their expectations on how they are to be treated, and the quality, go way up. Disney has done this to themselves. They have raised the prices ever single year to a point where people are dropping thousands on a week there. With that come higher expectations.

So has the service really declined? As the quality of the product really gone down? I don't think so. I just think the expectations have been racheted up over the years due to the price increases. And honestly, I think people have the right to feel that way with the way the prices have gone.

[baldburke]

Honestly, I think the price is having an affect on people's opinions/perspective. The more people spend on something the more their expectations on how they are to be treated, and the quality, go way up. Disney has done this to themselves. They have raised the prices ever single year to a point where people are dropping thousands on a week there. With that come higher expectations.

So has the service really declined? As the quality of the product really gone down? I don't think so. I just think the expectations have been racheted up over the years due to the price increases. And honestly, I think people have the right to feel that way with the way the prices have gone.

It's all relative. The average cost for a family of four to go to a prof football game is over $500. The same family of four would pay over $300 to go to a pro baseball game. Sure, you could go to the minors with your family of four for under $100 if you don't plan to get too many snacks. However we're talking Disney here. The Cadillac of theme parks!

My local theme parks, Hershey Park and Great Adventure, are $63 and $54 for regular admission, respectively. A single day at Busch Gardens Tampa is $79. Where a single day at Disney is nearly double Great Adventure at $101.

So back to the original question...which is the best value for your dollar? It's all subjective, right? Personally if I'm going local then I prefer Hershey, but if I'm going on vacation then I prefer Disney. For us it's the best value for our dollar. The price is what it is. We space our Disney vacations out accordingly to fit our budget, but there are other options out there if Disney isn't for you.