Resale Changes Eff 4/4/16 -UPDATED AGAIN??

[VWL Mom]

It looks like Disney will be restricting resale benefits with a new restriction date of April 4, 2016 to be grandfathered.

This is from the Member Site:

You should not purchase or add on real estate interest in a Disney Vacation Club Resort in reliance upon the continued availability or renewal or extension of these offers. These offers may only be available to Members at various times and may or may not be renewed or extended. Membership Extras, such as vacation options in the Disney and Concierge Collections, certain discounts, offers, and special events are incidental benefits. These incidental benefits are subject to change or termination without notice, may require the payment of a fee and cannot be combined with any other offers or promotions. Membership Extras are also subject to availability and block–out dates may apply, including high periods of demand such as Christmas and New Year’s Day. To receive any Membership Extras, purchasers must present a valid Disney Vacation Club Membership Card along with a corresponding valid photo ID. Disney and Concierge Collections options are not available for ownership interests not purchased directly from Disney Vacation Development, Inc. after March 21, 2011, and, effective April 4, 2016, Members who do not purchase an ownership interest directly from Disney Vacation Development Inc. will not have access to Membership Extras.

Under Membership Extras they currently list on the site:

Here are some examples of what's currently available (subject to change):
Save on select dining at Disneyland Resort and Walt Disney World Resort
Enjoy discounts on select spa treatments, watersports rentals and more
Get golf course discounts at Walt Disney World Resort
Save on select merchandise and theme park tours
Save on select theme park Annual Passes
Receive invites to special events and experiences, like movie screenings and Member gatherings
More under Membership Benefits

[faline]

Looks like they are trying to make sure that all vacation club sales are made directly by Disney!!

[dlpmikki]

So is all that is left for new resales the option to stay at DVC resorts? Given that DVC won't buy direct from members who want to sell what choices will be left to dispose of your contracts if you can't afford it etc? It seems like a pretty major change.

[ibelieveindisneymagic]

Ick! We seriously thought about DVC last summer, and decided that if/when we take the plunge it will have to be resale, the direct prices are just too high. This is starting to get a bit silly though ... they are REALLY cracking down!

[missymouseworld]

So, if you purchased resale prior to April 4, 2016, you are still eligible to receive the member extras?

[John]

The money grab continues - so the only ones who now would benefit from resale are existing members who already have the benefits because they have membership prior to today.

What this may do is really drive down the cost of points on the secondary market...

[VWL Mom]

A letter from Ken Potrock has just been posted, here's a portion:


As our Member community continues to grow, we want to make sure we can continue to deliver the Membership Extras that add value to your overall experience – offerings that are provided as a premium advantage to our Members who purchase directly from Disney Vacation Club.

With that in mind, please be aware of a policy change regarding the availability of Membership Extras to our membership. As previously communicated (effective March 21, 2011), Getaways included within the Disney Collection (e.g., Disney Cruise Line and Adventures by Disney) and the Concierge Collection, which are now part of Membership Extras, have not been available for ownership interests not purchased directly from Disney Vacation Club. Now, effective April 4, 2016, Members who do not purchase their ownership interest directly from Disney Vacation Club will not have access to other Membership Extras, such as exclusive Member experiences and discounts. Please know that as a current Disney Vacation Club Member (regardless of when or where you bought your membership), your access to Disney Differences and these additional Membership Extras will not be affected by this policy change. For more details about our Membership Extras program, please refer to our Membership Extras Acknowledgment and Disclosure Statement available online at disneyvacationclub.com.

We see this policy change as a very positive step to ensure that, going forward, our Members who purchase directly from Disney Vacation Club receive a premium advantage – in addition to all the magic that Disney has to offer

[Hammer]

We see this policy change as a very positive step to ensure that, going forward, our Members who purchase directly from Disney Vacation Club receive a premium advantage – in addition to all the magic that Disney has to offer

...at almost double the price of the resale market ;)

With that said, most people on this forum have told people considering buying into DVC to not let the discounts be a factor in your decision, as those can change at any time (remember complimentary valet parking? I really miss that one). I also saw this morning a cost analysis of buying from Disney versus resale, even with the new restrictions. You have to buy 4,000 t-shirts with the discount to make up the difference in price.

[Hammer]

The money grab continues - so the only ones who now would benefit from resale are existing members who already have the benefits because they have membership prior to today.

What this may do is really drive down the cost of points on the secondary market...

Hope it does drive down the prices, as I was considering adding a few more points. We now go to Food and Wine for 6 nights and could use the extra points.

[DVC Mike]

Those who now buy resale lose the discounts on dining, shopping, annual passes, and access to member-exclusive events.

They still have access to RCI.

[VWL Mom]

Hope it does drive down the prices, as I was considering adding a few more points. We now go to Food and Wine for 6 nights and could use the extra points.

I'm with you on that, we were thinking of adding on because my newfound love for VGF is making me burn through points. I was a bit shocked at how high the resale prices have gotten and many were stripped, maybe this will bring them down to where they should be (at least the older properties). Not so sure that will happen though.

I was wondering what the effect was for are those that are currently in ROFR but it appears they are grandfathering in anyone whose contract was sent to DVD prior to today.

[Hammer]

Those who now buy resale lose the discounts on dining, shopping, annual passes, and access to member-exclusive events.

They still have access to RCI.

Maybe someone can verify, but I read that access to the Top of the World Lounge and pool hopping (though the list of pools available to all DVC members has become quite limited) is not included in the benefits which were removed.


I'm with you on that, we were thinking of adding on because my newfound love for VGF is making me burn through points. I was a bit shocked at how high the resale prices have gotten and many were stripped, maybe this will bring them down to where they should be (at least the older properties). Not so sure that will happen though.

I was wondering what the effect was for are those that are currently in ROFR but it appears they are grandfathering in anyone whose contract was sent to DVD prior to today.

Lynn, we want the additional points for VGF too! I was wondering about the people who are going through the process, especially our member WiltonJohn, who got through the ROFR about a week ago, but final paperwork is still being processed. Glad to hear they are being grandfathered!

[WiltonJohn]

We haven't formally closed yet... but Disney has passed on the ROFR. Wonder how this affects us, with a transaction approved and in escrow and pending. Guess I have to contact the agent.

best,

................john

[Hammer]

We haven't formally closed yet... but Disney has passed on the ROFR. Wonder how this affects us, with a transaction approved and in escrow and pending. Guess I have to contact the agent.

best,

................john

We are hearing you should be okay, but let us know what your agent says. :fingers: for you !

[VWL Mom]

Maybe someone can verify, but I read that access to the Top of the World Lounge and pool hopping (though the list of pools available to all DVC members has become quite limited) is not included in the benefits which were removed.


The way I'm reading it from the Member Benefits & More Page all benefits are removed from resale since the new exclusion is included at the bottom of the page.

[ThanxForNoticin]

How is this all going to work if a member (like me!) has both DVC points through Disney and DVC points through resale. I can see how they can prevent me from using my resale market points when trying to make a Disney Collection reservation - they can see how many points I have that are "eligible" for such a reservation. But if I show my DVC member card when buying an annual pass at Guest Relations, or making a purchase at a souvenir store, there's no way they're going to know which points I'm using to stay on a particular trip. Actually, if I think it through, I don't even need to be staying in a DVC unit to get a DVC discount on souvenirs on a trip.

So I wonder if I'm reading this correctly - this might only impact people who buy resale-only points after today? Very strange.

[VWL Mom]

So I wonder if I'm reading this correctly - this might only impact people who buy resale-only points after today? Very strange.

Correct

[ThanxForNoticin]

Correct

I have a tendency to over-think things sometimes!

[AgentC]

The money grab continues - so the only ones who now would benefit from resale are existing members who already have the benefits because they have membership prior to today.

What this may do is really drive down the cost of points on the secondary market...

I know at first I was thinking this was a bad thing for me. We were thinking of buying Vero points but since I already get pass holder and FL resident discounts, there isn't really any current DVC discounts I need, so it could lower prices and be good for me but I am sure my situation is a very small segment.

[Carol]

I guess I'm in the minority here.

To me it's like buying a used car and wanting the milage turned back to 0, as well as getting all of the warranties and bells/whistles that come with a new purchase. If you want to buy used and benefit from the reduced price, you cannot have it both ways.

:shrug:

[Hammer]

I guess I'm in the minority here.

To me it's like buying a used car and wanting the milage turned back to 0, as well as getting all of the warranties and bells/whistles that come with a new purchase. If you want to buy used and benefit from the reduced price, you cannot have it both ways.

:shrug:

Exactly, which why I always say to not buy DVC with the perks being one of the reasons. Sure, I miss the complimentary valet parking and it would be nice to have the option to use for the Concierge collection, but that isn't why I bought into DVC or added points.

[cer]

I guess I'm in the minority here.

To me it's like buying a used car and wanting the milage turned back to 0, as well as getting all of the warranties and bells/whistles that come with a new purchase. If you want to buy used and benefit from the reduced price, you cannot have it both ways.

:shrug:

I guess, but the people buying resale already have a shorter amount of time left on the contract, right? So it would make sense to me that for that fact alone you should expect to pay less on the secondary market.

[cer]

Also, y'all are talking about how this may drive down secondary market prices, do you think Disney may begin scooping up more of the contracts with ROFR if the resale prices drop?

[Hammer]

Also, y'all are talking about how this may drive down secondary market prices, do you think Disney may begin scooping up more of the contracts with ROFR if the resale prices drop?

Possible, but they'll only exercise ROFR if there is demand for any of these resale contracts. It doesn't make business sense to buy back contracts if they don't have requests for them.

[baldburke]

Wow...that's a lot to keep track of. So Disney effectively has class A, B and C members? Class A get all right, class B can't book to concierge or DCL and class C gets the same treatment as B but also looses meal, merch and ticket discounts? Will they get a different color card or something to distinguish them? That's a tough conversation for the cast member at check out, "Oh, I'm sorry but you're not the right kind of DVC member to get these discounts..." Buying used for us was not a tough factor because we weren't interested in concierge or DCL (on points/$$$), but this is a whole different ball game. Still...if you are serious about going to WDW frequently then the math has to pay off, even without the perks.

[VWL Mom]

Will they get a different color card or something to distinguish them?

Rumor has it they will not be getting a card at all since they won't need to show it. May also explain, in part, the change in cards earlier this year.

[TheHD]

May also explain, in part, the change in cards earlier this year.

Yep, I was wondering the same thing after reading through this post.

I bought resale in 2013. As long as I get to duck into the DVC Lounge at Epcot to escape the heat, I'm good. Discounts on merchandise was not enough to steer me in either direction and neither was pool-hopping, which is available at all pools (except for pools X, Y, Z, A, B, C...) :blush:

[VWL Mom]

UPDATE:

It is now being reported that an email was sent out by TSS and others to their clients that reads anyone closing after 4/4/16 will not get benefits. It's also been posted by another broker on FB. Please, if you have contracts pending, call your agent.

Honestly, I don't know how low Disney can sink. It is my understanding that the brokers were notified by Disney yesterday that as long as it was in ROFR, the old terms would be honored. Now to turn around and contact them after 4PM today and basically say "we changed our minds" is below low. I can see a this causing some sort of class action suit by those affected as the terms of the contract changed while in Disney's hands.

And having a top executive leave in the midst of all the recent announcements makes me wonder what's really up.

[DVC Mike]

UPDATE:
Honestly, I don't know how low Disney can sink. It is my understanding that the brokers were notified by Disney yesterday that as long as it was in ROFR, the old terms would be honored. Now to turn around and contact them after 4PM today and basically say "we changed our minds" is below low. I can see a this causing some sort of class action suit by those affected as the terms of the contract changed while in Disney's hands.

And having a top executive leave in the midst of all the recent announcements makes me wonder what's really up.

I find some comments on some other boards saying there was no miscommunication or that it doesn't matter if there was or not to be a bit ridiculous.


When I call Member Administration and am told something, as far as I am concerned, it is an official communication from an authorized representative of DVC. When I call back a day later and get a completely different response from the same group, a miscommunication has occurred. Like it or not, DVC bungled the communication. I don't believe there was any intentional misrepresentation going on or that DVC changed its mind in one day on a policy they must have thought through. I just believe they dropped the ball and didn't send a clear message. They caused emotional damage to those people that for a day, thought they had squeaked by and still were getting the discounts and benefits.


if I was SVP of DVC, I'd issue an apology and stick with the original statement. The goodwill generated would be well worth it. It really wouldn't cost them anything but it would improve the goodwill among a population of their members.


Do do I believe DVC is going to do this. No way, as DVC's recent actions show they don't care. The change in the policy doesn't bother me one bit, as it's completely within their rights to make this change. I was wondering why they didn't do this before.


The only thing I'm miffed at is the communication gaffe.

[big blue and hairy]

I know at first I was thinking this was a bad thing for me. We were thinking of buying Vero points but since I already get pass holder and FL resident discounts, there isn't really any current DVC discounts I need, so it could lower prices and be good for me but I am sure my situation is a very small segment.

I had the exact same thought process, FL resident, passholder, Tables in Wonderland, I wouldn't use the discounts anyway. I hope John's right about driving down resale prices.

:sulley:

[Tekneek]

The money grab continues - so the only ones who now would benefit from resale are existing members who already have the benefits because they have membership prior to today.

What this may do is really drive down the cost of points on the secondary market...

This has to represent a significant loss of value for anyone who may ever want to sell their DVC stake. If Disney isn't buying it from you, nobody will without a huge markdown. Even then, gauging that markdown would be tough given that you would have to pay an ever-increasing retail price for passes to the parks. This has got to be bad for every DVC "owner", even if they never planned to sell.

[BrerGnat]

I don't know. The current "perks" are pretty weak. Eventually, they will probably disappear entirely. And at the end of the day, people who buy resale will still come out ahead, money wise. I mean, a lot of these discounts can be had by buying an AP, which at full price is what, $150 more than the DVC discounted price? Or get a Disney Visa...lots of the same discounts available with that and that is free to own!

[Tekneek]

Ah. DVC was the only "timeshare" I ever considered being a part of, but given the way things have gone I am glad I never did buy in. I would surely have regretted it by now. Hope things work out well enough for those with some skin in this game.

[BrerGnat]

Ah. DVC was the only "timeshare" I ever considered being a part of, but given the way things have gone I am glad I never did buy in. I would surely have regretted it by now. Hope things work out well enough for those with some skin in this game.

We have gone back and forth about it as well. It's a battle between emotions and logic. Since I'm much more of a logical person, I still haven't bought in. ;)

[SurferStitch]

Ah. DVC was the only "timeshare" I ever considered being a part of, but given the way things have gone I am glad I never did buy in. I would surely have regretted it by now. Hope things work out well enough for those with some skin in this game.

Yep... In all honesty, the more I read about all of the rules and regs (and the hoops that you seem to have to jump through), the more we DIDN'T want to buy into DVC. DH and I are so glad we didn't. I've read so much griping about not being able to book a home resort, or the need to book a couple different rooms/resorts in one trip, and annual dues increasing, losing benefits, etc... I've never regretted not buying DVC.

[ThanxForNoticin]

Nope - gotta disagree whole-heartedly with the comments coming now. We've been members going on 23 years now, and we have NEVER regretted the investment. When I think of our family memories of Disney - priceless memories - most of them involve our purchase into the DVC timeshare.

I remember the flexibility of using the ownership. I remember the 5 family trips we've taken that probably would not have been possible without this timeshare. I remember the family (and I'm talking 15-20 of us) spending the afternoon at the pool or grabbing ice cream at Beaches N Cream or sitting down together for dinner at Boma an 'OHana.

I don't remember if I got a 10% discount on my tee-shirts at the souvenir shop, or got 10% off my lunch at the park. To be completely honest, I bet you I FORGOT to use perks I have available more times than I've ever used them! Are they nice to have? Absolutely. But it wasn't why we purchased there. We purchased there because of the memories.

I know I probably sound like a Disney commercial - but I'm serious. We have never regretted the initial investment we made at The Vacation Club (now Old Key West), and 4 other additional smaller purchases of points over the years - many of them resale points. Is it perfect? Not even close. We just had a less than perfect stay at the new Polynesian Studios last month. But I'm already looking forward to learning from that experience and heading back down again later this year - looking for more fun and more memories, while I can still enjoy them!!!

[BrerGnat]

Nope - gotta disagree whole-heartedly with the comments coming now. We've been members going on 23 years now, and we have NEVER regretted the investment.

I know I probably sound like a Disney commercial - but I'm serious. We have never regretted the initial investment we made at The Vacation Club (now Old Key West), and 4 other additional smaller purchases of points over the years - many of them resale points. Is it perfect? Not even close. We just had a less than perfect stay at the new Polynesian Studios last month. But I'm already looking forward to learning from that experience and heading back down again later this year - looking for more fun and more memories, while I can still enjoy them!!!

Well, to be fair, the price of points 23 years ago was amazing! If I had joined back then, at the wee age of 14, I'm sure I would be singing its praises right about now too. ;)

However, at $150+ per point nowadays, it's extremely hard to justify a purchase...

[ThanxForNoticin]

Well, to be fair, the price of points 23 years ago was amazing! If I had joined back then, at the wee age of 14, I'm sure I would be singing its praises right about now too. ;)

However, at $150+ per point nowadays, it's extremely hard to justify a purchase...

That's a valid point.

But even with resale contracts no longer including access to certain perks, buying resale today at $80 or $100 or $120 a point is likely still a good investment for many Disney lovers!

[WiltonJohn]

I just got a reply from our sales agent. At the moment.... we lost out on the "benefits". The upshot from them........

DVC management released statements on April 4 to the real estate people and brokers handling DVC re-sales stating that contracts pending would not be affected by this change. The agents started to communicate this to people with contracts in the works (in or just out of ROFR but before closing) pending. Then one day later, Disney rescinded that prior official statement and said that the restrictions would apply to anything not CLOSED by April 4th.

It is clear from the language the agent used to me, that they themselves are not happy with the WAY that Disney handled this matter. It obviously put them in a difficult position, as well as their clients.

I have no problem with the ability of Disney to change the rules for DVC members. Once we own... I always knew that they could change things at any time, as they have done in the past. I expected this kind of thing to possibly happen. The "core value" of the DVC membership is not in the discounts stuff; those are little added extras.

The issue here is the way that sales contracts that DISNEY was already involved in approving, were/are being retroactively changed while the sale is still in process... THAT is the issue. It would be like you buying a house, having the agreement in place and thru inspections and such, and then the day before closing, you go over and find that the old owners removed the already agreed upon included small above ground swimming pool from the back yard. That swimming pool was not really WHY you bought the house... it was 'a little extra'. But it was what you were expecting to BUY.

So now, what you are about to buy is not what you agreed to buy for a specific price. (And it is not the old OWNERS fault!) So by rights,, we should void the agreement we have pending and look for another or re-negotiate it. But that would move us back to "square one", and another ROFR process. That now leaves both us and the old owners kinda' "high and dry" if we were to do so. And the real estate company will not refund the escrow deposit.....so we'd be out that if we cancelled now. (That is possibly illegal given these circumstances......... so we'd have to get lawyers involved... which would cost more than the refund.)

Seems to me that a letter writing campaign is in order. The key players:

Karl L. Holz

President

210 Celebration Place

Suite 400

Celebration, FL 34747-4600

[email protected]


Ken Potrock

Disney Vacation Club

Senior Vice President and General Manager

1390 Celebration Blvd.

Celebration, FL 34747

407.566.3830 ph

[email protected]

Grrrrrrrrrrr................

best,

..............john

[BrerGnat]

Disney really should go by the date of the buyer's signatures on the contracts. That is only fair.

[VWL Mom]

People are starting to report that the decision has been back switched again and brokers are emailing their clients. John contact your broker.

Today's email
This note is to inform you that anyone with a contract that was received by Disney Vacation Club by the end of the day on April 3, will be grandfathered in to have the same access to Membership Extras that are available to others who have purchased DVC memberships from sources other than Disney since March 21, 2011. (Note: Those members who purchased from sources other than DVC after March 21, 2011 may not use their points for the “Disney Collection” (select Disney Resort Hotels, Disney Cruise Line and Adventures by Disney) and the “Concierge Collection” resorts. As a reminder, the Membership Extras are incidental benefits offered by DVC and are subject to change.)

[faline]

If true, that would certainly be fair and the right thing to do.

[Hammer]

People are starting to report that the decision has been back switched again and brokers are emailing their clients. John contact your broker.


I have been reading the same thing from multiple sources as well and was coming here to post about it, thinking of John as well. Call your broker!

[WiltonJohn]

I heard from my broker. Disney sent out a communication to them. The decision has been reversed to contracts pending as of April 3 retain the "bennies".

All the fuss and letter writing apparently had an effect.

best,

..............john

[baldburke]

Got our official communication in the mail yesterday.

I understand people don't like being nickeled and dimed every step of the way. As previously mentioned on this thread DVC is still a great investment if you want to regularly vacation at Disney properties.

I just wonder where DVC goes from here with with partnerings at every deluxe at WDW plus two stand alones, one at DL, Aulani and the other two east coast sites. Maybe something Star Wars themed adjacent to Hollywood Studios?

[VWL Mom]

I just wonder where DVC goes from here with with partnerings at every deluxe at WDW plus two stand alones, one at DL, Aulani and the other two east coast sites. Maybe something Star Wars themed adjacent to Hollywood Studios?

I don't think they're looking at a stand alone right now. I think their next step will be another conversion at either YC/BC or BW similar to what they've done at Poly and WL.

Just glad this whole thing worked out for all involved but I don't think this is the last resale change we will see from them.

[WiltonJohn]

Just glad this whole thing worked out for all involved but I don't think this is the last resale change we will see from them.

I expect about a year from now (when the dust from this brough-ha-ha settles down) they will drop all of the added bennies from ALL non-direct purchases.

I think someone screwed up in saying that the pending stuff was OK... got their butt chewed...... and then trying to fix their mistake, the backtracking was a clear "faux pas" with the customers ........ but the intent is there to do so.

best,

......................john

[TheDuckRocks]

Just glad this whole thing worked out for all involved but I don't think this is the last resale change we will see from them.

When my sister was buying resale direct from Disney a year ago the sales rep discussed this with us. He pointed out the dropping of the other non-DVC properties that had just happened as being step one. Step 2 according to him was the dropping of the DVC Perks which we've just seen. As for the next 4 steps he said would be happening......it ain't pretty. As it is only a rumor I don't feel it is fair to say what those 4 steps are. We all have all heard many rumors in the past that we have seen not followed through on. I for one am keeping my fingers crossed that these just vanish.
BTW - Disney direct DVC resale is a very active purchase function. There are up to one year and better wait lists for membership in most all DVC resorts currently.