disappointed with new FP so far

[thejens]

I didn't stay up until midnight to get my fast passes in the first moments, so maybe it is my fault, but i am disappointed that the FPs that I was able to get are all very late in the day. Space Mountain conflicts with Wishes!! Another conflicts with lunch reservations at Askershus. I don't know that we will even get to use them. We are doing four parks in two days and I was hoping to get to park at opening to run to attractions in first park and then rely on the FP for the later park. I have heard that I can keep checking, but so far I am feeling very disappointed.

[Jeff]

I despise the rigidity of the new FP system!
It is not a "plus" to me at all!

[AgentC]

When are you going? Usually I have pretty good luck at the 60 day mark except certain rides. A lot of the time the app gives you times that aren't great and you have to go in one by one and move them. Did you try that?

Unfortunately I think Epcot is going to bad hard for awhile. It was hard enough to get Soarin and Test Track for a good time but now with Soarin closed, there just aren't that many options at EPCOT which puts pressure on all the attractions there.

[Goofy4TheWorld]

If you are still within the first few days of your FP+ window, something sounds fishy.

After accepting the times first given to you, have you tried to click "Update FP+" and see if earlier times are actually available?

I would be really surprised if nothing is available until nighttime 50-60 days out. HOWEVER, as I was typing this it occurred to me that if you are going to be at WDW on/around Easter, you may be in fact be getting all the FPs that are left since Easter is a super-crowded week to go.

Are you going over Easter?

[VWL Mom]

If you are still within the first few days of your FP+ window, something sounds fishy.

After accepting the times first given to you, have you tried to click "Update FP+" and see if earlier times are actually available?

I would be really surprised if nothing is available until nighttime 50-60 days out. HOWEVER, as I was typing this it occurred to me that if you are going to be at WDW on/around Easter, you may be in fact be getting all the FPs that are left since Easter is a super-crowded week to go.

Are you going over Easter?

I agree, even if it is Easter time you should be able to change them around this far out. Definitely go in to update and see if you can move them around.

[ibelieveindisneymagic]

I agree! I did stay up to midnight for my FP's last summer. But, I wasn't thrilled with what I could get, and did go in a for a few days after and move things around. Especially if you have conflicts, take some time and see what else you can get. If you're still close to the 60-day mark, you should be able to find some decent, workable times.

If you're further into the window, sometimes you can split up your party into smaller groups, and find overlapping times. :)

[Fangorn]

My experience has been (and that's for at least 6 trips with FP+) that the times MDE returns are always times that Disney is trying to push you into, in order to even out the attendance throughout the day. It does not mean that other times are not available. In all those trips, I have always been able to change the times to something that works better for us - even when we've made FP+ less than a week out.

If, as you say, MDE is giving you a FP+ time that conflicts with an ADR already on your MDE, then that is definitely a sign that something is wrong with the system - that's not supposed to happen.

Keep checking, and definitely try changing your times.

Steve

[1DisneyNut]

We had the same experience. We had conflicts galore and moved the times around as much as possible but there were still a couple that we ended up missing because we could not get to them in time. I think it is absurd that we have to stay up until midnight often on a work night just to set them up and then I find it extremely annoying to have to keep checking for 2 months including while on the trip for better time slots to become available. We never were able to get FPs for 7 Dwarves Mine Train or Soarin.

Seriously, why should we have to go through all of this hassle for what is supposed to be a vacation?

[Speedy1998]

Hearing about all these problems at the 60 day mark make me wonder if Disney holds back FP times for the 30 day mark and for the day of. I have not stayed on site since before FP+ was implemented. At the 30 day mark the only thing I have not been able to get, at a time that was good for me (or any time for that matter) was the meet and greet with Anna and Elsa for my daughter. On my last trip at 30 days out I was able to get 7DMT for 10 am on both days we went to MK, and that was during Spring Break.

[DisneyGiant]

I just call Disney IT whenever I have a problem like that. Especially when I have to add an extra person to our touring group. They fix things like "magic." :)

[Susan A]

Yes. Continue to check FP availability, even the day of. We just got back from the world.
My husband wanted to ride Aerosmith RRC. At first FP were gone. Cast member at kiosk said to try again bc people change their plans all day. Sure enough, he was able to get a FP a couple hours later.

[DonaldDuck1117]

I think it is absurd that we have to stay up until midnight often on a work night just to set them up and then I find it extremely annoying to have to keep checking for 2 months including while on the trip for better time slots to become available

Seriously, why should we have to go through all of this hassle for what is supposed to be a vacation?

Is it any more absurd than having to get to the park at rope drop and running to the attraction to secure a fast pass? I prefer to do that mad dash on my couch.

And, as always, if you don't get a fast pass that doesn't mean you aren't allowed to ride. That's what the line is for, it works great, I use it quite often ;-)

[Bass T-bone]

Years from now... they will take way the fast pass + thing and the executive who makes that decision will be looked on as a genius in the eyes of the public.

Isn't this a Nostradamus quote?

:D

[1DisneyNut]

Is it any more absurd than having to get to the park at rope drop and running to the attraction to secure a fast pass? I prefer to do that mad dash on my couch.

And, as always, if you don't get a fast pass that doesn't mean you aren't allowed to ride. That's what the line is for, it works great, I use it quite often ;-)

Actually, yes it is more absurd. Why you may ask, because I have to predetermine what park I am going to visit 2 months ahead of time and then sit up waiting for Midnight to roll around so I can TRY to get acceptable FP's. One top of that it is a burden placed on what is supposed to be a fun vacation.

For the record, I did not use the old style paper FP much. I found it to be somewhat unnecessary, however, now with FP+ and people scheduling FP's for 9-10 AM it makes the standby lines artificially long which I find extremely irritating. If there weren't FP's prior to 12, the standby lines would flow with only about 15-20 minute wait times just like they used to prior to FP+.

I can live without the remarks about "not being able to get a fastpass doesn't mean you aren't allowed to ride", but since you want to travel that route, why did you think you had to get to the park at rope drop? You do realize you could have ridden rides in the afternoon and evening without fastpasses didn't you? I am fairly certain the standby lines were still open and operating back then even though there were paper fastpasses. Anyway, as I have stated many times in the past, I don't care for any fastpass system and prefer the simplicity of standby lines. I go to Busch Gardens, Sea World, Six Flags and about every other attraction you can think of in the Southeast without "Fastpasses" and it works out just fine every time.

[RunDMV]

Is it any more absurd than having to get to the park at rope drop and running to the attraction to secure a fast pass? I prefer to do that mad dash on my couch.

And, as always, if you don't get a fast pass that doesn't mean you aren't allowed to ride. That's what the line is for, it works great, I use it quite often ;-)

Did you read what you just wrote?

Not to mention, there is only one attraction that the FPs go pretty early: TSM. Seems a bad trade to predicate the rest of your vacation on one attraction.

[Park Hopper]

Is it any more absurd than having to get to the park at rope drop and running to the attraction to secure a fast pass? I prefer to do that mad dash on my couch.

And, as always, if you don't get a fast pass that doesn't mean you aren't allowed to ride. That's what the line is for, it works great, I use it quite often ;-)
For me, the answer to this question is a definite, 100% yes (and you never needed a mad dash to get a FP, just an earlier time). Let's see, would I rather try to plan exactly where I will have to be and what I will be doing 60 days out, having to constantly recheck if something isn't available, and then have my vacation regulated to meet those times, knowing that I will have little chance of getting on the main rides again without a long wait (other than rope drop or at the very end of the day)?
Or, would I rather be able to see where I want to go while on my vacation while there (maybe the night before or the morning of) and base this decision on factors such as how I am feeling, the weather, changes in Disney's operating schedule, etc..? Furthermore, with the old system I could decide what rides I want to get FPs for that day and I could change parks and still possibly get useful FPs (this was easier because you had to be there in person to physically get the FP, not like today when they are all grabbed 60 days in advance).

I hear the few defenders of the new FP+ say that they now don't have to run from one place to another to get FP's, but really, if you are going to Disney parks, how difficult was it to have someone in your party grab FPs while you are in the park? If you do not like walking, or at least having to cover large areas in a single day, the parks are not for you. Even on the busiest days you could get to the parks in the morning, walk to the ride and grab FPs. If it was crowded, those might be an hour or so later than if you ran to the FP machine, but you still got them. And, we don't even need to mention the fact that you now have FP+s for rides that never needed them.

I have said it before, the only people who I think benefit from the new system are those who may want to get to the park later, do not necessarily care to go on a lot of rides, and want to have a guarantee of riding the major rides once during their visit. However, it now sounds that sometimes that is not even a guarantee, even if you go through the 30 - 60 day selection process.

Finally, the argument that you can always wait in standby is not valid. You could do that regardless of the FP system used. I do think an argument could be made that the FP+ system has made the standby times longer, but that argument can be discussed at a later day.

[Goofy4TheWorld]

I hear the few defenders of the new FP+ say that they now don't have to run from one place to another to get FP's, but really, if you are going to Disney parks, how difficult was it to have someone in your party grab FPs while you are in the park?

Defender here, and I found the crisscrossing of the parks to obtain FPs to be a very unenjoyable part of visiting WDW, and I am glad FP+ has ended it. I tested FP+ in October 2013 during a period where I could use both FPv1 and FPv2 and it really made it aware, when using both systems side-by-side, how much I hated the crisscrossing to a paper FP machine.

[Goofy4TheWorld]

I have said it before, the only people who I think benefit from the new system are those who may want to get to the park later, do not necessarily care to go on a lot of rides, and want to have a guarantee of riding the major rides once during their visit.

I think the new system has benefits for me, and I am not someone who may want to get to the park later, do not necessarily care to go on a lot of rides, and want to have a guarantee of riding the major rides once during their visit.

FP+ has definitely limited my ability to loop attractions like I did in the past, but explosive growth in attendance has probably done more damage to that than FP+, the timing was just a coincidence.

:twocents:

[Speedy1998]

how difficult was it to have someone in your party grab FPs while you are in the park?
.

Obviously you were not the person in your party that always had to go get the next Fastpass while everyone else was having fun.

[Goofy4TheWorld]

For the record, I did not use the old style paper FP much. I found it to be somewhat unnecessary, however, now with FP+ and people scheduling FP's for 9-10 AM it makes the standby lines artificially long which I find extremely irritating. If there weren't FP's prior to 12, the standby lines would flow with only about 15-20 minute wait times just like they used to prior to FP+.

I disagree with the premise that FP+ has extended standby times, although I will not claim to know anything other than what I read or experience.

Buy IMO the lines are longer because the attendance at WDW is swelling astronomically. An attraction still has the same throughput whether or not FP+ existed or not, and the exact same number of people are being corralled through those lines every day.

[Park Hopper]

Defender here, and I found the crisscrossing of the parks to obtain FPs to be a very unenjoyable part of visiting WDW, and I am glad FP+ has ended it. I tested FP+ in October 2013 during a period where I could use both FPv1 and FPv2 and it really made it aware, when using both systems side-by-side, how much I hated the crisscrossing to a paper FP machine.

Well, if you planned it right, with far less planning required than it takes to make FP+ reservations months in advance I might add, you do not crisscross the park much at all. You need to compare apples to apples. Since FP+ really only gives you one shot to get on one major ride in a single park per day, you should only compare that to getting one of the old FPs. Thus, in your scenario, you would only be crisscrossing the park once to get the equivalent. And, one would hope that you could easily plan to get that one FP while you were in the area anyway. You are trying to compare crisscrossing the park several times to get multiple meaningful fast passes to not having to crisscross the park and only getting one.

[DonaldDuck1117]

I love the new FP+ system. I also love planning, so yes, I know what park in going to be at 60 days out. I find it fun. And staying up till midnight isn't a burden for me. I like knowing I've got 3 rides already locked up before even getting inside the park. I like sleeping in. I like not having to keep thinking of my next fast pass move while in the park. Now I've got that all figured out before I even get to Florida.

And, if there is something I want to ride and I don't have a FP for it, I just get in line.

[Park Hopper]

I think the new system has benefits for me, and I am not someone who may want to get to the park later, do not necessarily care to go on a lot of rides, and want to have a guarantee of riding the major rides once during their visit.

FP+ has definitely limited my ability to loop attractions like I did in the past, but explosive growth in attendance has probably done more damage to that than FP+, the timing was just a coincidence.

:twocents:

I am not sure what you are saying (and it may partially be my fault for the original sentence). If you are saying that you like to ride a lot of rides and ride them multiple times, then you are the only one that I know who thinks the new FP+ system is better for this. The new system, for all practical purposes, limits you to one major attraction per day without standing in long standby lines. With the old system, even on the busiest of days, you could get FPs for more than 1 major attraction per day.

There is another website (I am sure that I cannot link it here) that monitors and attributes the increase in standby wait times to FP+ as much as the increased attendance. My personal experience tells me this is true as I can remember being able to get much more done in June with the old FP system than I have in recent low attendance times with the FP+ system. It seems to really have affected rides that never needed a FP, but now have FP+ in place.

[Park Hopper]

Obviously you were not the person in your party that always had to go get the next Fastpass while everyone else was having fun.

Actually, I was. I would always go ahead and get the FPs for my wife and kids. I enjoyed it. The 5-10 min that it would take, if I were going out of our way in the first place, and the chance to ride major attracts several times without having to wait in the long standby lines, was far more worth it than having to micromanage my Disney itinerary months in advance for a single major attraction per day.

[Park Hopper]

I disagree with the premise that FP+ has extended standby times, although I will not claim to know anything other than what I read or experience.

Buy IMO the lines are longer because the attendance at WDW is swelling astronomically. An attraction still has the same throughput whether or not FP+ existed or not, and the exact same number of people are being corralled through those lines every day.

Like you, I do not have concrete evidence, other than what I have experienced. Personally, I was able to get more done on busier park days with the old system than I can now on less crowded days with the new system. Your point about the overall attendance sounds valid, but again, there is another site that has evidence to point to the fact that the FP+ standby times are greater, even considering the increased attendance.

[Park Hopper]

I love the new FP+ system. I also love planning, so yes, I know what park in going to be at 60 days out. I find it fun. And staying up till midnight isn't a burden for me. I like knowing I've got 3 rides already locked up before even getting inside the park. I like sleeping in. I like not having to keep thinking of my next fast pass move while in the park. Now I've got that all figured out before I even get to Florida.

And, if there is something I want to ride and I don't have a FP for it, I just get in line.

As I mentioned, there are some cases where I think the FP+ is beneficial. Like I said before, I think the new systems favors those that tend to get to the parks later and that are only concerned with riding the major attractions once (without long standby lines) in a given day. If you like planning to that level then it is a great system for you.

Different strokes, I guess. I enjoy some level of planning beforehand, but I like to have flexibility once I get there as well. Getting on rides is important to my family and we try to get there early and ride as much as possible. The old system allowed us to get on the major attractions several times in a day without the standby lines, even during busy days. For people like us, the FP+ system is not preferred.

[Goofy4TheWorld]

I am not sure what you are saying (and it may partially be my fault for the original sentence). If you are saying that you like to ride a lot of rides and ride them multiple times, then you are the only one that I know who thinks the new FP+ system is better for this. The new system, for all practical purposes, limits you to one major attraction per day without standing in long standby lines. With the old system, even on the busiest of days, you could get FPs for more than 1 major attraction per day.


It's not your fault, there is a contradiction in my thoughts, much of it having to do with my current phase of life and where my WDW universe is currently centered. With two young kids, I am focused on MK and AK, which of course does not suffer the plague of tiered FP+ distribution. The tiers at DHS and Epcot drive me bananas, but I guess I have become resigned to them.

Prior to kids I was all about looping RnRc & ToT (or Splash & Big Thunder, Everest & Safari, or Soarin' & Test Track) in a continuous rotation between standby and FP lines. I freely admit that the days of looping E-ticket attractions are gone, and I admit that a portion of the blame lies with FP+. I don't think the FP+ system is better for looping the big attractions, but for whatever reason (maybe I am getting weak in the knees) I have decided that the positives of FP+ are worth the trade (an opinion I may very well think is ludicrous in 8 years when I have a 16 and 12 year old wanting to loop RnRc).

My limited experience is that I can be happy with my day at MK and AK with FP+, and since that is where my focus is anyway, I have not walked away feeling shortchanged. Now if you want to talk about the technical issues with MDE and FP+ not working as promised, well that's a whole 'nother thread for me....

[taleasoldastime]

I really think that the people who enjoy the old FP system and those who like the new system simply just have different priorities. Just like Apple PC's and Windows PC's attract different people based on what they like to use their computers for.

I think if you prefer the old FP system then you value the ability to wing it or make changes to your plan. You also don't mind walking around the parks. (Personally, I prefer this. Its the same reason I always get park hoppers. So i can change my mind if I wish. I also enjoy the walks around the park. I like the smells, sounds, sights. It does not bother me one bit to walk back and forth.)

If you like FP Plus then you value having a plan and a guarantee (which is even questionable now). You also prefer taking it easy. You want to go into the parks with a concise plan on how you are going to navigate in order to reserve energy. (I can see the enjoyment in this as well. Especially if your priority is relaxation.)

Unfortunately, not everyone can be happy. I guess us old FP lovers had our time, and now it is time for the new FP system to make a different bunch of people happy.

[Buttercup]

This is a scenario that's happened to me a BUNCH of times. What I discovered was this: if you log into My Disney Experience from an actual COMPUTER, you will get a whole bunch of different available times than you would on the app on your phone. So, even though it's not giving you the option on your app, it doesn't mean that time isn't available. Try logging in from a computer and see what happens....

The other option is to just accept the times you get, and then go in to "Modify Existing Fastpasses" and you'll get a whole bunch of other times to choose from.

[RunDMV]

I disagree with the premise that FP+ has extended standby times, although I will not claim to know anything other than what I read or experience.

Buy IMO the lines are longer because the attendance at WDW is swelling astronomically. An attraction still has the same throughput whether or not FP+ existed or not, and the exact same number of people are being corralled through those lines every day.

If you look just beyond that Disneyodendrum, you can see a forest of fake trees. WDW uses FP+ for one reason, to "manage" crowds. Hence, they allow more crowds in.

[RunDMV]

Obviously you were not the person in your party that always had to go get the next Fastpass while everyone else was having fun.

The problem with this argument is that Disney can still have FP+ and not the 60 day window. Technology is there to grab a fast pass for any ride at any kiosk in the park. You don't have to be at the TSM fast pass machine to get a fast pass for TSM.

[DizneyFreak2002]

Defender here, and I found the crisscrossing of the parks to obtain FPs to be a very unenjoyable part of visiting WDW, and I am glad FP+ has ended it. I tested FP+ in October 2013 during a period where I could use both FPv1 and FPv2 and it really made it aware, when using both systems side-by-side, how much I hated the crisscrossing to a paper FP machine.
If you were criss crossing the parks just to get FP then you were doing things wrong and that is totally on you... Not the old system...

[DizneyFreak2002]

I disagree with the premise that FP+ has extended standby times, although I will not claim to know anything other than what I read or experience.


Then you would be wrong... While rides such as Splash haven't seen much of a stand by queue line increase, other rides such as Haunted Mansion and Pirates have... Two rides where FP is not necessary, yet the morons put it there to trick unsuspecting guests (or the Disney Can Do No Wrong Crowd) into thinking FP+ is a wonderful thing (it isn't), and great value (it's not)...

[1DisneyNut]

I completely agree with DisneyFreak2002. I think the people that argue that FP+ is not the cause of some of the longer lines and argue the throughput point, fail to realize that the reason the standby lines at Haunted Mansion, Pirates of Caribbean, and even Spaceship Earth for crying out loud are long is because people that do not know any better are scheduling FP+'s for those rides and thus causing long standby's. It really isn't the guests fault though, it is Disney's for doing FP+'s on attractions that do not need and should not have them. The fact that they have them on those attractions and then funnel them through while holding the standby line is the problem.

The other problem caused by FP+ is early morning (think rope drop up until lunch) they allow FP+ scheduling for all the rides so if you get there early and do not have FP+ scheduled until later in the day, you are a secondary guest waiting in all the standby lines watching them just funnel through the FP+ guests. This happens even though the park is not crowded at all by any means and if it was standby only, all guest would be flowing right through the line and riding with very minimal wait. This is one of the biggest problems with FP+. The solution is simple, change the system to no FP+ until after Noon....problem solved.

I never crisscrossed the parks for old paper FP's either. We worked around the park in an orderly fashion. If we came upon an attraction that had a really long wait time or a favorite we wanted to hit again later in the day, we grabbed a FP while we were right there and moved on. Later in the day or that night we went back hitting favorites and doing the paper FP's. A lot of times we didn't use a FP at all.

I have been to the parks prior to any FP, with paper FP many many times and now with FP+. I preferred no FP at all and then paper FP and despise FP+. Keep in mind I have been on the prior systems when it was crazy busy and I have been with FP+ when it wasn't real busy so I have first hand experience with all the scenarios. I got more done prior to FP+ on days when the park was reaching capacity on 4th of July week than I could in November with moderate crowds on FP+.

One final thought I will throw out there: Every extreme is almost always followed by another. Whether it be weather, war and peace, or business. Right now theme parks are booming (all theme parks not just WDW) and the flip side is coming watch and see. When the other shoe drops, we will find out just how popular/unpopular FP+ in its current form really is and I am fairly confident I already know the answer on that one. As someone else posted earlier, one day an executive will pull the plug on or radically change FP+ and everybody will act like he is some sort of genius.

[Park Hopper]

With two young kids, I am focused on MK and AK, which of course does not suffer the plague of tiered FP+ distribution. The tiers at DHS and Epcot drive me bananas, but I guess I have become resigned to them.

You are right that DHS and Epcot have definitely been the most affected by FP+. If they had more E ticket attractions in those parks, it would certainly help!

[Goofy4TheWorld]

Then you would be wrong... While rides such as Splash haven't seen much of a stand by queue line increase, other rides such as Haunted Mansion and Pirates have... Two rides where FP is not necessary, yet the morons put it there to trick unsuspecting guests (or the Disney Can Do No Wrong Crowd) into thinking FP+ is a wonderful thing (it isn't), and great value (it's not)...

So if tomorrow Bog Iger is hanged by the neck in a spectacular show inside Liberty Square, and FP+ is disbanded, what happens to the lines at Splash and at Haunted Mansion and Pirates? Are 120 minute waits at Splash and 5 minute waits at Haunted Mansion and Pirates the ideal solution to WDWs line problem? If the same number of people remain in the park after the termination of FP+, what does the utopia of no FPs look like? Where do all of these people go?

[j2k]

the reason the standby lines at Haunted Mansion, Pirates of Caribbean, and even Spaceship Earth for crying out loud are long.

Reading this had me curious so I checked the wait times on MDE app and all three of these currently are around 30 minutes. I also noticed the Jungle Cruise is around 50 minutes. This is in the morning...Wowzer! :eek:

I haven't visited since the days of paper FP in 2012 so I am shocked to see this. When we were there in 2012 we walked into Epcot in the late afternoon (4:00ish) and walked straight onto Spaceship Earth. There were no lines. We also did Pirates and Mansion twice, on separate days, and I think we waited about 10-15 minutes each time. There were no paper FP for any of those.

This enlightens me and now I will be keeping an eye on the wait times more in planning for our 2017 trip.

I'm a big planner but when I'm on vacation I don't like to be tied to plans because it causes me more stress and less relaxation. This is one of the reasons why we only scheduled one ADR on our 2012 trip.

At the end of the day, each person has a different vacation style and not everyone will be happy with everything.

[Altair]

So if tomorrow Bog Iger is hanged by the neck in a spectacular show inside Liberty Square, and FP+ is disbanded, what happens to the lines at Splash and at Haunted Mansion and Pirates? Are 120 minute waits at Splash and 5 minute waits at Haunted Mansion and Pirates the ideal solution to WDWs line problem? If the same number of people remain in the park after the termination of FP+, what does the utopia of no FPs look like? Where do all of these people go?

If FP+ was terminated?
First the invisible FastPass line would go away. Then what was the Stand-by line would become self regulating. If the wait times are too long guests will move to other attractions in the park. From experience, wait times fluctuate at E-Ticket rides though out the day. With FP, some guests have no wait while others have long stand-by times, without it, everyone would have a moderate wait for most rides. Some won't like even a moderate wait, so they may stop coming. If this happens, Disney will be forced to raise prices (which the do anyway), add more attractions to keep everyone happy and thin the lines or or just live with smaller crowds with happier guests. Just a thought. :mickey:

[j2k]

What if you don't schedule FP+ in advance? or utilize FP+ at all? What is the park experience like these days if you just walk through and standby on the attractions you want? Of if you wait to visit park kiosks to get FP+ instead of scheduling in advance?

I'm just thinking "outloud" as I ponder this.

[DizneyFreak2002]

So if tomorrow Bog Iger is hanged by the neck in a spectacular show inside Liberty Square, and FP+ is disbanded, what happens to the lines at Splash and at Haunted Mansion and Pirates? Are 120 minute waits at Splash and 5 minute waits at Haunted Mansion and Pirates the ideal solution to WDWs line problem? If the same number of people remain in the park after the termination of FP+, what does the utopia of no FPs look like? Where do all of these people go?
If you read what I wrote, I said Splash's wait time has not been dramatically increased... Splash had FP from the start.... And while yes, FP in general does cause longer stand by lines, FP+ did not increase nor decrease Splash's waiting times... FP did, however, increase Pirates and HM..

Want to know what would solve the issue? More attractions... MK is bursting at the seams... FP+ isn't the answer that the uppers tried to pass it off as... More attractions, more to do is...

Iger been horrible for the parks... HORRIBLE... Staggs is no better... Remember Staggs was Eisner's pick to head up Strategic Planning, you know, the group that was formed and started this downward trend of WDW... Better hope Staggs does not become CEO... He doesn't get it...

[DizneyFreak2002]

What if you don't schedule FP+ in advance? or utilize FP+ at all? What is the park experience like these days if you just walk through and standby on the attractions you want? Of if you wait to visit park kiosks to get FP+ instead of scheduling in advance?

I'm just thinking "outloud" as I ponder this.
Longer stand by wait times... Day of? Good luck... While not impossible for some attractions, most of the popular attractions FP are "sold out" way in advance...

[CaptSmee]

We've never had any issues getting times we are happy with. Never had conflicts eitger, the system should recognize you have an ADR. You can go in and change times after securing attractions you want though

[DonaldDuck1117]

I

Iger been horrible for the parks... HORRIBLE... Staggs is no better... Remember Staggs was Eisner's pick to head up Strategic Planning, you know, the group that was formed and started this downward trend of WDW... Better hope Staggs does not become CEO... He doesn't get it...

Well Staggs will be the next CEO so there's that.

Under Iger we have the Fantasyland expansion, Avatar Land is coming along with the new nighttime show at AK. plus we are getting a revamped Studios with a Starwars Land AND Toy Story Land. Not to mention the fix of California Adventure!

Attendance has never been higher and the Parks and Resorts have never been making more money.

[DizneyFreak2002]

Well Staggs will be the next CEO so there's that.

Under Iger we have the Fantasyland expansion, Avatar Land is coming along with the new nighttime show at AK. plus we are getting a revamped Studios with a Starwars Land AND Toy Story Land. Not to mention the fix of California Adventure!

Attendance has never been higher and the Parks and Resorts have never been making more money.

Actually, you are getting Avatar, a knee jerk reaction by Iger to Universal's success with Potter... And only a brain dead moron wouldn't do anything with Star Wars... So doing a Star Wars expansion doesn't mean Iger gets it... it took him long enough... And only proves the man truly has no clue about how to run the theme parks... Fantasyland expansion, all style, absolutely no substance... Toy Story Playland?? Zzzzzzzzz

And as for attendance, well, thank JK Rowling, Harry Potter, and Universal for bringing more people to Orlando than ever before...

He had absolutely no choice approving DCA's fix cause the park was probably Disney's greatest failure... And you really need to thank John Lasseter for saving DCA not Iger... And Lasseter for saving Disney animation.... And Marvel and now Star Wars for saving Disney Studios... Which was dying under Iger...

And don't count on Staggs just yet...

[Park Hopper]

Unfortunately, not everyone can be happy. I guess us old FP lovers had our time, and now it is time for the new FP system to make a different bunch of people happy.

This is true. Again, I have no evidence for this (other than my family), but I think that there is probably a correlation between those that like to repeat rides multiple times while at Disney and those that come back to WDW frequently. I am sure that there are those that don't feel they have to repeat rides a lot that come back every year, but the very nature of liking to repeat things and places you enjoy is inherently what must bring many back year to year. I do not know that first timers or even infrequent visitors (say once every 10 years) will really be affected much, as they do not know what it was like (or things have changed enough anyway) with the old system. However, it may influence their desire to come back soon - especially if they do not see the value given all the preplanning and costs.

Where I think they may start losing visitors is from the frequent visitor group that like to come back and ride their favorite attractions multiple times. I think it is too early to tell if FP+ is affecting this crowd, as FP+ has not been around long enough to start analyzing the effect on people who return every 1 or 2 years. I can speak from experience as this is the first winter in the last 13 years (that includes both really low and some really high crowd times) that we are not going. We may have been able to get a trip in over the holiday break, and with the old system, we would have made it work. However, with the new FP+ system we decided that the amount of planning involved, the cost, and most importantly, the reduced amount of things (rides) that we would be able to do was not worth the money and time. This is coming from a family that loves Disney World (DVC members, etc...). We may go this summer, but I have to say, our previous experiences with FP+ have really turned us off.

[DizneyFreak2002]

This is true. Again, I have no evidence for this (other than my family), but I think that there is probably a correlation between those that like to repeat rides multiple times while at Disney and those that come back to WDW frequently. I am sure that there are those that don't feel they have to repeat rides a lot that come back every year, but the very nature of liking to repeat things and places you enjoy is inherently what must bring many back year to year. I do not know that first timers or even infrequent visitors (say once every 10 years) will really be affected much, as they do not know what it was like (or things have changed enough anyway) with the old system. However, it may influence their desire to come back soon - especially if they do not see the value given all the preplanning and costs.

Where I think they may start losing visitors is from the frequent visitor group that like to come back and ride their favorite attractions multiple times. I think it is too early to tell if FP+ is affecting this crowd, as FP+ has not been around long enough to start analyzing the effect on people who return every 1 or 2 years. I can speak from experience as this is the first winter in the last 13 years (that includes both really low and some really high crowd times) that we are not going. We may have been able to get a trip in over the holiday break, and with the old system, we would have made it work. However, with the new FP+ system we decided that the amount of planning involved, the cost, and most importantly, the reduced amount of things (rides) that we would be able to do was not worth the money and time. This is coming from a family that loves Disney World (DVC members, etc...). We may go this summer, but I have to say, our previous experiences with FP+ have really turned us off.

FP+ is not going to keep people away, at least a large amount of people to make any difference in the attendance numbers... Those regulars who stop becoming regulars due to FP+ won't be missed by Disney because for every 1 regular who stops going, they are replaced by 100 non-regulars, the once in a life timers... You know, the guests Disney wants.... Disney does not want regulars, cause in their mind, regulars do not spend money, or a lot of it... They believe once in a life timers spend the most... And maybe they are right... I consider myself a regular, and honestly, I spend as little as I can in WDW.... Most my money goes offsite, mainly for meals... Many great restaurants off property....

[j2k]

Those regulars who stop becoming regulars due to FP+ won't be missed by Disney because for every 1 regular who stops going, they are replaced by 100 non-regulars, the once in a life timers... You know, the guests Disney wants.... Disney does not want regulars, cause in their mind, regulars do not spend money, or a lot of it... They believe once in a life timers spend the most...

I see your point but I don't know if I completely agree that Disney does not want the regulars. Why continue to build up the DVC program? Which attracts people to become regulars?

[krysseijo]

I remember times of riding Space Mountain 6-7 times a day by continuing to pick up new fast passes at the kiosks. I should of saved some of those little cards.

However, I like the new system. Obviously it has it's inconveniences but I've never had to wait up until 12am to get the most popular ride, but that could just be me. You can changes times up to the day of, literally walking around the park on your phone, so definitely try that.

And if anyone ever sees me at WDW that's probably what I am doing!

Have a good trip.

[DizneyFreak2002]

I see your point but I don't know if I completely agree that Disney does not want the regulars. Why continue to build up the DVC program? Which attracts people to become regulars?

Why? Because it is a large influx of up front cash to their coffers... Plus it is also a recurring deposit to the bottom line with the maintenance fees... But once someone becomes a DVC member, then that person is looked at as a leech... While most businesses try to reward their most loyal customers, Disney really doesn't...

Trust me, Disney looks at regulars and won't mind if they never come back.... Because they will more than make up for the loss by tricking first timers into buying over prices junk merchandise because, well, you wouldn't be a good guest if you didn't... Regulars are more of a drain than an asset...

[DizneyFreak2002]

I remember times of riding Space Mountain 6-7 times a day by continuing to pick up new fast passes at the kiosks. I should of saved some of those little cards.

However, I like the new system. Obviously it has it's inconveniences but I've never had to wait up until 12am to get the most popular ride, but that could just be me. You can changes times up to the day of, literally walking around the park on your phone, so definitely try that.

And if anyone ever sees me at WDW that's probably what I am doing!

Have a good trip.
Walking around with your head down, face in the phone instead of taking in the sites and sounds of WDW... Yep, so magical....

[j2k]

Why? Because it is a large influx of up front cash to their coffers... Plus it is also a recurring deposit to the bottom line with the maintenance fees... But once someone becomes a DVC member, then that person is looked at as a leech... While most businesses try to reward their most loyal customers, Disney really doesn't...

Trust me, Disney looks at regulars and won't mind if they never come back.... Because they will more than make up for the loss by tricking first timers into buying over prices junk merchandise because, well, you wouldn't be a good guest if you didn't... Regulars are more of a drain than an asset...

Like I said before, I understand your point. But I don't necessarily agree. They will never please everyone but I think that's the case everywhere, not just Disney.

[SurferStitch]

Walking around with your head down, face in the phone instead of taking in the sites and sounds of WDW... Yep, so magical....

Wow... You can be so rude and abrasive. Just sayin'...

[goofyskier]

Wow... You can be so rude and abrasive. Just sayin'...

While the tone seems rather abrasive he is spot on with the discription. Check the phone for Fastpass times, check the phone for dining, check the phone for wait times, check the phone for photo pass pics. I go to Disney World to enjoy the sites and sounds....they are forcing me to be distracted from that. I hate FP + and MDE.

[Park Hopper]

FP+ is not going to keep people away, at least a large amount of people to make any difference in the attendance numbers... Those regulars who stop becoming regulars due to FP+ won't be missed by Disney because for every 1 regular who stops going, they are replaced by 100 non-regulars, the once in a life timers... You know, the guests Disney wants.... Disney does not want regulars, cause in their mind, regulars do not spend money, or a lot of it... They believe once in a life timers spend the most... And maybe they are right... I consider myself a regular, and honestly, I spend as little as I can in WDW.... Most my money goes offsite, mainly for meals... Many great restaurants off property....

This very well be the case, but I would be interested in the actual numbers. Maybe someone knows where to find them. I have seen that MK attendance was about 19 million in 2014. I am guessing that counts each day someone goes, so if I go 2 or 3 days during my vacation, I am contributing 2 or 3 times to that total. I would like to see how many different people went to DW. I would then like to see the breakdown of how many are repeat and how many new. I mean, in terms of Americans, there are 319 million. To simplify things, It would be cool to take how many Americans vacationed there and relate it to the total population to see if they really could survive on new American visitors. Regardless, I do agree that Disney does not seem as concerned about repeat visitors anymore.

[1DisneyNut]

Wow... You can be so rude and abrasive. Just sayin'...



While the tone seems rather abrasive he is spot on with the discription. Check the phone for Fastpass times, check the phone for dining, check the phone for wait times, check the phone for photo pass pics. I go to Disney World to enjoy the sites and sounds....they are forcing me to be distracted from that. I hate FP + and MDE.

I read his post and was like "yep." I actually thought the exact same thing and would have posted it in probably almost the exact same wording. He is just a straight shooter which I personally prefer but I don't know, these days some people need everything sugar coated and delivered like a politician through rose colored glasses.

I agree with DisneyFreak2002 though, walking around the park with your face in your phone instead of taking in the sites isn't much fun. We found ourselves doing it quite a bit on our last trip trying to get better fastpass times and looking at a couple of restaurants. I finally got irritated and stuck my phone in my pocket and left it there and made the best of it.

[j2k]

I finally got irritated and stuck my phone in my pocket and left it there and made the best of it.

That goes back to the thoughts I had in my earlier post. If all these changes cause less enjoyment then maybe it's time to try not utilizing FP+, ADR, etc. leave the phones alone and just do WDW " old school".

[goofyskier]

That goes back to the thoughts I had in my earlier post. If all these changes cause less enjoyment then maybe it's time to try not utilizing FP+, ADR, etc. leave the phones alone and just do WDW " old school".

Or do Disneyland which hasn't fallen victim to FP+ or MDE yet. Yet.....

[BrerGnat]

Or do Disneyland which hasn't fallen victim to FP+ or MDE yet. Yet.....

It won't. The suits have already confirmed that Disneyland will NOT get MDE or FP+. They are to get a different version of FP+, which will use the app as an OPTION but they will not remove the old paper FP machines. And guests will not be able to reserve FP in advance; they must be physically in the park at the time (based on app location services being turned on.)

[DizneyFreak2002]

Or do Disneyland which hasn't fallen victim to FP+ or MDE yet. Yet.....

They aren't... Told you all that when this mess first hit WDW that Disneyland management is smarter than the monkeys in WDW... Said before, bands only.. MAYBE... FP+? Nope.. MDE?? Nope... Like Nat said, they won't be getting the disaster that is FP+ as it currently stands in WDW...

[DizneyFreak2002]

I read his post and was like "yep." I actually thought the exact same thing and would have posted it in probably almost the exact same wording. He is just a straight shooter which I personally prefer but I don't know, these days some people need everything sugar coated and delivered like a politician through rose colored glasses.

I agree with DisneyFreak2002 though, walking around the park with your face in your phone instead of taking in the sites isn't much fun. We found ourselves doing it quite a bit on our last trip trying to get better fastpass times and looking at a couple of restaurants. I finally got irritated and stuck my phone in my pocket and left it there and made the best of it.
Sad thing is, this is society as a whole today.. People walking around everywhere, face down in their phone... That's why I don't feel bad for these idiots who fall into holes, walk into poles, or get run over by cars...

And WDW has now catered to this crowd... It is sad really...

[DizneyFreak2002]

This very well be the case, but I would be interested in the actual numbers. Maybe someone knows where to find them. I have seen that MK attendance was about 19 million in 2014. I am guessing that counts each day someone goes, so if I go 2 or 3 days during my vacation, I am contributing 2 or 3 times to that total. I would like to see how many different people went to DW. I would then like to see the breakdown of how many are repeat and how many new. I mean, in terms of Americans, there are 319 million. To simplify things, It would be cool to take how many Americans vacationed there and relate it to the total population to see if they really could survive on new American visitors. Regardless, I do agree that Disney does not seem as concerned about repeat visitors anymore.
Unfortunately those numbers will never be released to the public... I wish they were... I wish Disney and Universal released exact attendance numbers... But they don't.. All we have to go on is the guess work (and that is all it is) TEA does... But I will say this about their numbers, most people in the industry say TEA's guess work isn't too far off, expect for DHS which they have estimated too high attendance... Some people think IOA has already passed DHS in attendance, and in fact DisneySea is really the most visited theme park in the world, not MK..

And when I talk about repeat visitors, I don't mean a person who goes to MK twice during a one week vacation.... I'm talking about people who go two or three times a year, once every year, twice every year... Like some DVC members do... Disney looks at those people as a loss... Why? Cause management feels these people aren't buying merchandise, or a ton of it... These people aren't eating at the WDW restaurants, or dining there a lot... The once in a life timers, well they are spending bundles on merchandise, on food... That is why Disney loves to cater to those people... Plus, the once in a life timer is usually an uneducated, or ill prepared, traveler... They can be tricked more easily than a WDW veteran can be into over spending...

[BrerGnat]

They aren't... Told you all that when this mess first hit WDW that Disneyland management is smarter than the monkeys in WDW... Said before, bands only.. MAYBE... FP+? Nope.. MDE?? Nope... Like Nat said, they won't be getting the disaster that is FP+ as it currently stands in WDW...

They confirmed NO BANDS at Disneyland. Thank goodness.

[DizneyFreak2002]

They confirmed NO BANDS at Disneyland. Thank goodness.

The officially announced no Magic Bands in Disneyland? I missed the announcement, been too busy with life lately... LOL... Thanks for letting me know that.... Much appreciated!!!!

So further proof TDA knows how much of a mess FP+ and the MBs are and refuse to subject their guests to the torture WDW guests need to go through...

[RunDMV]

I can confirm this: ever year from 1989, my family visited at least once and most years, twice. We spent anywhere from 8 to 15 days per year. Haven't been back since FP+ and we don't plan on it.

[BrerGnat]

"&But the future of Disneyland will apparently not include MagicBands, a wristband that uses microchip technology to let guests use the bands in place of theme park tickets, hotel room keys and even credmit cards. The wristbands debuted at Walt Disney World in Orlando, Fla., in 2013.

Disneyland does not plan to offer the wristbands at the park anytime soon, said Mary Niven, vice president for Disneyland Park.

She said the wristband won't work with Disneyland's guest demographics. Many visitors are local residents who do not stay for long periods at the nearby hotels, where the bands would be used heavily.

"We are constantly looking at what is next on the horizon," she added.*


That was from an LA Times article in May 2015.

[DizneyFreak2002]

"&But the future of Disneyland will apparently not include MagicBands, a wristband that uses microchip technology to let guests use the bands in place of theme park tickets, hotel room keys and even credmit cards. The wristbands debuted at Walt Disney World in Orlando, Fla., in 2013.

Disneyland does not plan to offer the wristbands at the park anytime soon, said Mary Niven, vice president for Disneyland Park.

She said the wristband won't work with Disneyland's guest demographics. Many visitors are local residents who do not stay for long periods at the nearby hotels, where the bands would be used heavily.

"We are constantly looking at what is next on the horizon," she added.*


That was from an LA Times article in May 2015.


Thank you... Yes, I totally missed that article... :thumbsup:

[Park Hopper]

And when I talk about repeat visitors, I don't mean a person who goes to MK twice during a one week vacation.... I'm talking about people who go two or three times a year, once every year, twice every year...

I knew what you meant and agree with what you are saying. I was just wondering how they count the attendance numbers. When we go to Disney for a week, I may actually go through the MK gate 5 or 6 times. Heck, sometimes I go through multiple times in a single day. I am guessing that they count a single person per day. If that is the case, there will be days when I increase the numbers at 3 different parks in a single day.

On another topic, I actually do not mind the Magic Bands, as they are convenient when they work. However, I absolutely hate FP+ and for that matter, let me add the dining plan too. It is a shame, as there are obviously things I love about WDW, but those two things have lowered my opinion a bit. I think both were basic money grabs and attempts to control everything, getting every last cent from the people who are there. I guess I cannot blame them for that, but I think it has hurt the quality.

[DizneyFreak2002]

I knew what you meant and agree with what you are saying. I was just wondering how they count the attendance numbers. When we go to Disney for a week, I may actually go through the MK gate 5 or 6 times. Heck, sometimes I go through multiple times in a single day. I am guessing that they count a single person per day. If that is the case, there will be days when I increase the numbers at 3 different parks in a single day.

On another topic, I actually do not mind the Magic Bands, as they are convenient when they work. However, I absolutely hate FP+ and for that matter, let me add the dining plan too. It is a shame, as there are obviously things I love about WDW, but those two things have lowered my opinion a bit. I think both were basic money grabs and attempts to control everything, getting every last cent from the people who are there. I guess I cannot blame them for that, but I think it has hurt the quality.
Ah ok, I misread your previous post, sorry about that... My understanding is, attendance is calculated first gate you enter that day gets the guest visit... So even though you entered MK 5 or 6 times in 1 day, it is only counted as 1 visit, or one entrance... If you visit MK 5 days in a 1 week span, and MK was your first visit every day, then MK gets 5 visits towards its attendance numbers...

If you visit Epcot first, then MK, Epcot gets the gate click, not MK... It is first park visited that that..

At least that is how it was explained to me... Could be wrong however...

[1DisneyNut]

I knew what you meant and agree with what you are saying. I was just wondering how they count the attendance numbers. When we go to Disney for a week, I may actually go through the MK gate 5 or 6 times. Heck, sometimes I go through multiple times in a single day. I am guessing that they count a single person per day. If that is the case, there will be days when I increase the numbers at 3 different parks in a single day.


On another topic, I actually do not mind the Magic Bands, as they are convenient when they work. However, I absolutely hate FP+ and for that matter, let me add the dining plan too. It is a shame, as there are obviously things I love about WDW, but those two things have lowered my opinion a bit. I think both were basic money grabs and attempts to control everything, getting every last cent from the people who are there. I guess I cannot blame them for that, but I think it has hurt the quality.


I can't agree with you more about FP+ and the dining plan. We have decreased visits from 2 or 3 visits per year to a visit once in 3 years. Currently we have no plans in the works for WDW other than possibly a day or two when I will be in Orlando for a business convention next year but that depends on what convention promotions come along. If Universal has a convention promotion, we will go there. This year we are going to Disneyland for the first time ever since we don't have to deal with all the FP+ nonsense there and we have been wanting to see the original anyway.

As for the attendance count, now with the magic bands; they know exactly where you went, when and how many times. So irregardless of how many times you entered the park or which parks, they know it was you and only count you as one unique visitor.