Frustration with Lack of Spontaneity

[Basket Mommy]

My family of 6 traveled to WDW November 20-25th. I did all the ADR and FP+ planning at the appropriate times, trying to use different crowd planners to help me target the parks that were supposed to be less crowded on the days we were there. I know those planners are never 100% accurate, but I use them anyway. Here's my beef: I planned a day at the Studios on Sunday the 22nd because the MK was supposed to be like a 7 or 8 for crowds (out of 10) and I've always been told that weekends at MK are a no go because all the locals come in (although our waiter at 1900 Park Fair dispelled that theory. Turns out MK on a Sunday is a great idea!) I got the prized FPs (TSM, Star Tours, ToT) for DHS locked in at 60 days and planned to do MK on the Friday we arrived and on Tuesday. Tuesdays are supposed to be great at MK, right?

When we got up and got going on Sunday, I started checking wait times on the MDE app for both DHS and MK. Of course MK wait times were spectacular and DHS times were already through the roof. Hubby and I discussed throwing the DHS plans out the window and going to MK and taking our chances with FPs and standby lines, but didn't want to give up our TSM FPs since none were available for other days of our stay. We ended up going to DHS. We were able to do our 3 FPs and stood in a 45-minute line for Great Movie Ride, but never even got close to riding RnR (100+ minutes). We did see Osbourne Lights and then called it a day after being there from 10 am until dusk. I continued to check MK wait times throughout the day, and honestly, we would've ended up better if we'd gone there. But we were locked in at DHS and felt trapped. This is what I HATE about planning so far in advance. If I had been able to switch our FPs around successfully, I would've chosen to go to MK and had a relatively productive and stress free day. Our MK day on Tuesday was awful since it was 2 days before Thanksgiving (we went the Tuesday before T'giving last year and practically had the park to ourselves from opening to around noon!) That day all we got to ride were our 3 FP rides plus the carousel and teacups. Everything else was ridiculously long. There was a chained off queue for People Mover, if that tells you anything. I've never waited for People Mover, not even at that time last year. I know I chose a crowded time to go, but I feel like if I'd been able to be more flexible and not all tied up with FP and ADR choices made months in advance, I would've enjoyed the experience much more. We go a couple of times a year, so riding every ride every time isn't a must, but being able to ride more than 3-5 things would've been nice.

Off the soapbox.

[Zippy 1]

I agree with you! Having to plan each day so far out and kinda being licked into it takes some of the fun away. We haven't been back in severeal years and do not have a trip planned anytime soon. (financial reasons). But not in a real hurry to get back due to changes and all the construction going on.

[1DisneyNut]

I totally agree with you as well. We were there thanksgiving week and ran into the same dilemma. We ended up changing plans and not even using many of our FP's. I may start a thread on our trip when I get a chance.

The first couple of days we found ourselves just running all over the park we were in trying to get to FP's and then running around trying to do rides in between. I started keeping up with the time we were spending trying to do each ride and it turns out we would walk across the park fighting through crowds for 15 minutes, get in the fastpass line which typically wasn't so fast because of the number of FP's they give out and we waited around 15 minutes to get on the ride and then usually had to go back across the park to our next ride we were going to do or get back to where the wait times were lower which took another 10 to 15 minutes walking. So if you do the math, we had around 45 minutes in each ride we used a FP on and the standby wait times for many rides were 30 minutes. My point is, we were getting less rides done per day by using the FP+ system.

The only time a FP+ is handy is for one of the rides you know you want to do and you know 100% for sure the wait time is going to be extremely long such as soarin. Outside of that, don't waste your time with them and just go with the flow like old times and you will enjoy your vacation much much more.

[RunDMV]

Y'all obviously don't know what you are talking about. Tom Staggs HIMSELF said the FP+ creates more spontaneity. {sarcasm off}

[1DisneyNut]

Y'all obviously don't know what you are talking about. Tom Staggs HIMSELF said the FP+ creates more spontaneity. {sarcasm off}

Yeah, I laugh every time I read that in their press releases and advertisements. I would like to sit down with the marketing knuckleheads that write that stuff and get them to explain how in their minds that something that locks you down to specific dates, times, places and experiences months in advance results in spontaneity.

[Patricia]

I have no desire to use the new Fastpass+, but I haven't been there since it was implemented. I'm one of those people that doesn't even make ADR's. We decide where we are going when we wake up and eat at whichever restaurant lets us in when we are hungry. :blush: The only time I know where I'll be, at any given time, is if I'm attending a hard ticket event, like MVMCP or I'm at an Icot meet. My planning is centered on getting a good deal on my resort and a cheap car rental, if we even get a car. The rest of it has to be spontaneous or I don't feel like I've been on vacation.

Now, that being said.. I've been to WDW a lot of times, I help others plan trips and figure out all these systems, have knowledge of what to avoid and I don't mind missing an attraction or two if my day doesn't go perfectly. I feel bad for people that are on a first trip (or an only trip) and have no idea what they are going into. Their bad day can't necessarily be fixed by a soak in a hot tub.

[faline]

Yes, planning so far ahead as to which rides you're going to ride on which day does tend to lock you into a park much more than the old system did. Good for Disney - to know the crowd levels to expect at each location. Not so good for the rest of us who might like to hop to a less-crowded park!! Doesn't look like the current system is going to change any time soon so it is what it is!!

[BrerGnat]

The running back and forth between rides is what I hate the most about it. Last time we went, we spent three days in the parks and I don't remember SEEING anything. It was a mad dash to go from ride to ride because the FP times were right on top of each other. It felt so hectic and disjointed.

[Susan A]

That's why we are not on the dinning plan for our next trip. I don't want to be committed to so many sit down meals.

[RunDMV]

But Tom Skaggs says they can get 5,000 into the parks a day and still have the same experience.

[Basket Mommy]

I have no desire to use the new Fastpass+, but I haven't been there since it was implemented. I'm one of those people that doesn't even make ADR's.

We used to be like that, way back when we could decide in the morning where we were going, call to make an ADR for that park, and be on our way. No problems. Now, to eat at our favorite places (which also happen to be everyone else's faves), we have to do the ADRs. That didn't bother me so much. I could change ADRs if we decide to head in another direction. Then they started making you give your card # for meals so you can't cancel less than 24 hours out if you don't want to be charged. Okay. I got the reasoning there. I thought that would make it easier to get ADRs because it would cut back on people booking multiple reservations to hedge their bets. We never get a dining plan (we do Tables in Wonderland sometimes - not every trip), so I don't *have* to make ADRs. Not a big deal to cancel if plans change, but we have to know a day ahead what we're doing. But now I cannot make myself go without making the FP reservations. We usually go during value season, but the past 2 years we've been at Thanksgiving. If it wasn't for the FPs we had every day, we would never have ridden anything. I refuse to stand in a line that's more than 40-45 minutes. There's no way I'm waiting 2 hours for Peter Pan or RnR or Seven Dwarves Mine Train. At one point that ride was up to a 3-hour standby line (and it hadn't been down all day for any reason!) We have been trying to find a time of year to go that cuts down on missed school days for the kids now that they're older.

[BrerGnat]

But Tom Skaggs says they can get 5,000 into the parks a day and still have the same experience.

WDW executives should all be required to work a shift at Guest Relations once a week. Most of them never even step foot into the parks.

[MNNHFLTX]

WDW executives should all be required to work a shift at Guest Relations once a week. Most of them never even step foot into the parks.The execs should be required to spend a week as a guest in the parks. Make FP+ reservations in advance, ADR's in advance and then bring their families along to deal with complaints about it being too hot, too crowded, too rigid. Personal experience is the best teacher.

[BrerGnat]

The execs should be required to spend a week as a guest in the parks. Make FP+ reservations in advance, ADR's in advance and then bring their families along to deal with complaints about it being too hot, too crowded, too rigid. Personal experience is the best teacher.

True, but they would probably find a way to spin that experience.

Listening to people complain all day is better punishment. ;)

[TheVBs]

BasketMommy, so sorry about your trip experience! That stinks. It is frustrating to be so conflicted on whether to stick with the plans you hashed out so far before the trip, or improvise when it looks like another park would be better.

For the people who are using too much time getting from one FP to another, my DH came up with a great plan for us and it's worked on each trip. If you already have a touring plan, book your FPs around the park based on the approx. time you'd be there anyway. This made such a huge difference for us! At the MK, we always walk down Main St., hit Adventureland and tour around the park in that direction. We hit each FP without rushing or backtracking and still had time for rides and food in between.

[1DisneyNut]

BasketMommy, so sorry about your trip experience! That stinks. It is frustrating to be so conflicted on whether to stick with the plans you hashed out so far before the trip, or improvise when it looks like another park would be better.

For the people who are using too much time getting from one FP to another, my DH came up with a great plan for us and it's worked on each trip. If you already have a touring plan, book your FPs around the park based on the approx. time you'd be there anyway. This made such a huge difference for us! At the MK, we always walk down Main St., hit Adventureland and tour around the park in that direction. We hit each FP without rushing or backtracking and still had time for rides and food in between.

That is exactly what I attempted to do but I ran into problems with that plan. The biggest problem I had was trying to get the popular rides at the times I needed them. I wasn't even able to get one for 7 D mine train. The others that I did get, it was hard to coordinate them with estimated times. The next problem was the crowd flow is so weird now because of FP+. People with little experience get them for attractions that shouldn't need them and they show up in batches typically when the parades or shows end. So you will be going through your normal order trying to tick rides off the list and out of the blue the standby wait times will jump from 20 or 30 minutes to 60 or 90 in just a matter of minutes and it is because a boat load of people with FP+'s all showed up at one time. When this happens, they just funnel them through and the standby line literally STANDS BY!

You end up finding yourself second guessing your attack plan and trying to adjust. So one of two things happens, you either stick with your plan but get behind schedule or you adjust and move to a different section of the park with lower wait times. Either way, the end result is you are rarely near your upcoming FP when it is time to use it and you end up crossing back and forth across the park. This brings up another new problem, the standby wait times might be 15 to 20 minutes on a multitude of rides but there are people everywhere. Some almost running trying to get to a FP, some standing scratching their heads as usual looking at the park map, some walking but looking at the app on their phone constantly and not paying attention to where they are going and running into everyone or cutting them off, etc. One completely unintended result of FP+ has turned out to be very poor traffic/crowd control......people are just running everywhere and it makes the park seem far busier and more difficult to navigate.

[baldburke]

I think we're at a state where we go for the "Disney experience." Yes, we like to ride the new rides and see the updates, but beyond that there's never anything we're looking to accomplish besides enjoying our time at WDW. We usually make one ADR per day to make sure we get "a good meal." And while we do book fastpasses, we don't sweat the small stuff if we miss them due to being in other parks or other places within the park. But then again we've tended to go during "slower times" when the crowds weren't as heavy. With the kids getting older we really enjoy the flexibility.

[TheVBs]

That is exactly what I attempted to do but I ran into problems with that plan. The biggest problem I had was trying to get the popular rides at the times I needed them. I wasn't even able to get one for 7 D mine train. The others that I did get, it was hard to coordinate them with estimated times. The next problem was the crowd flow is so weird now because of FP+. People with little experience get them for attractions that shouldn't need them and they show up in batches typically when the parades or shows end. So you will be going through your normal order trying to tick rides off the list and out of the blue the standby wait times will jump from 20 or 30 minutes to 60 or 90 in just a matter of minutes and it is because a boat load of people with FP+'s all showed up at one time. When this happens, they just funnel them through and the standby line literally STANDS BY!



Reading this does remind me that we did run into the problem of crazy wait times a few times. We were luckily able to get all of our FPs at the times we wanted (late Aug. trip this year). But, we were stunned by the wait times on a few rides we didn't have FPs for. We had at least two days in each park though, and FPs for all the must dos, so we were fortunately able to hit those rides later in the trip.

We also experienced being in the standby line when it was COMPLETELY shut down once to funnel all the FP people through. They should have stuck to the plan of alternating the lines. We were in the standby for Space Mtn. and after the line was stopped for nearly an hour with the FP line breezing through, a couple people made a big stink and they started alternating again.

Thankfully we didn't encounter any weird crowd flow!

[MrPeetrie]

I totally agree with poster on this. We went in September, a time which used to be a slower period. For more than a year before, I began watching wait times to gauge which park to be in on which day. At 180-day mark, I made ADRs; at 60-day mark, I made FPs.

Crowds were heavy in every park we visited, but we were locked into those parks for those days. Halfway through trip, wife wanted to change our plans and go the Animal Kingdom in morning, ride a few rides, and head to Epcot for rest of day to spend time at Food & Wine Festival. I had precious FPs reserved at Magic Kingdom (7DMT among others.) It was Wednesday when we tried changing our Friday planning, but when I wanted to add AK FPs that close in, there was limited availability. Earliest FP for Kilimanjaro Safari was at 3:50. (So much for getting to Epcot early.) Too late to keep old FPs for Magic Kingdom; they were already canceled. Now, we were stuck to spending most of day in AK.

It has become too complicated for me to plan a Disney trip to enjoy it anymore.

[AndrewJackson]

I have been able to adjust the way we visit the parks and take advantage of FP+. I don't like planning so far in advance, but I do like be able to have a FP+ reserved for TSM and some of the other popular rides for whatever time we select, and not have to be there at Rope Drop to get one. In general, with a few exceptions for a few uber popular rides, I have been able to make changes with my FP+ selections as late as the morning of, right before the park opens.

To me, the biggest issue is ADR. It seems out of control.

[Park Hopper]

It has become too complicated for me to plan a Disney trip to enjoy it anymore.

This is a great point. Although, for me the complication is not how to do it, but more all of the data you have to collect and guess work just to make the plans that you will be locked into. While planning for a Disney vacation used to be fun and exciting, it has become a major chore. Before, I would have a general idea of what parks we wanted to go to so that we could match up some of our favorite ADRs. Now, you are more or less locked into the parks you pick (if you want to go on the top FP+ rides without waiting in line for an hour or so).

I believe the dining plan greatly reduced my level of enjoyment from the restaurants (making them more generic and often hard to schedule) and the FP+ is doing the same for the enjoyment of the rides. We go every year in January, but not this year. The sad thing is that my sadness over not going is greatly reduced by the happiness of knowing that I do not have to plan everything out. There are some other factors here that are contributing to our decision not to go, but the fact is that we would probably still be going under the old FP system, where we could come in and have some degree of relaxation and spontaneity. Now we feel like we would be paying too much for parks that have less to offer (currently), while having to pull kids out of school to go to a somewhat stressful (or at least highly regimented) vacation.

[i'm grumpy]

We hated it!! It seems like all we did was run around and missed so much. We only had 1 ADR and were late for that, so we had to wait for a table and that took more park time.

[Goofy4TheWorld]

For me, the only monster shortcoming of FP+ is the terrible IT behind it all. Disney IT has become complacent with having unstable, flaky, and sometimes even demon-possessed computer systems at all levels of IT, from ADRs, rooms, tickets, FP+, both public and internal computer systems are just a mess. Disney IT has a culture which accepts downtime, appears to have no problem with an "upgrade" creating catastrophic downtime for guests currently on their vacation, and based on my own recent calls to MDE tech support, are now becoming annoyed with anyone who does not accept "give it some time and it will work out" as a solution to the problem I have called about (and waited 45 minutes on hold to boot).

As for the "planning stress" of FP+, I just do not understand why people get so upset about it. Ever since 1971 most families have been trying to "get it all in" and "beat the crowds" at Disney. FP v1 gave us the ability to take some of the pressure off of getting that must-do ride by giving us a time within an hour or two, but we had to stress about physically walking over to the FP machine to get that ticket, and we could only get one "guarantee" before we had to repeat the cycle again.

FP v2 now gives us the ability to lock in THREE must dos, and we get to stress about it 60 days before our vacation instead of stressing about while we are in the parks crisscrossing from one FP machine to the next all day long. No matter how you shake it, MOST families spending time at an amusement park are going to experience some stress trying to get things accomplished, and all FP+ has done is shift a little bit of that stress 60 days earlier than it was in the past.

Looking back at the OP talk about sitting in their room and pondering switching parks, back in the "old days" we had no idea how wait times were because there was no such thing as MDE and FP+ feeding us that information 24/7 onto our mobile phones. If you wanted to change your plans based on attendance, you couldn't make that decision until you were inside the overcrowded park, and then you never knew if the park you hopped to was going to be even worse. Further, if you did leave DHS in favor of MK mid-day, you probably weren't getting a paper FP for many of the E-ticket rides, but of course you wouldn't know that until you had trekked all the way to that attraction's FP distribution machine to see that they were covered up with bags!

I find that there is plenty of opportunity to be spontaneous at Disney, but you have to pick your poison. If you want to have a relaxing day at the parks (or sleep in), then you can't expect to get a lot of things done that day. That's no different than in the past, if you were willing to crisscross the park all day chasing paper FPs, you could get an awful lot done, but it would be a marathon not a leisurely stroll kind of day. I don't see much difference between now and then, except now you get to have your first 3 FPs in hand before you even roll out of the bed. Plus, if you miss the nostalgia of crisscrossing the park chasing more FPs, you still get to do that too by having to go to a kiosk to get a 4th or 5th FP+ reservation! The fact the Standby lines appear to have got longer recently is, IMHO, not a function of FP+ as much as it is that there are just way more people squeezing into the parks, and nothing Corporate does (read price increa$es) seems to do stem the flow up people coming into the parks.

I have found that once I put my phone down and stop trying to maximize my FP+ reservations (or my park choice) by trading things like a broker on Wall Street that I enjoyed my time much better. Sure, there were times I walked in the FP+ line for an attraction with a 10 minute Standby time, but I just took my licks and kept on going without tinkering with things unless I absolutely had to (which for my family, usually involved trips to the ER or Urgent Care!).

Just my :twocents:

[Park Hopper]

As for the "planning stress" of FP+, I just do not understand why people get so upset about it. Ever since 1971 most families have been trying to "get it all in" and "beat the crowds" at Disney. FP v1 gave us the ability to take some of the pressure off of getting that must-do ride by giving us a time within an hour or two, but we had to stress about physically walking over to the FP machine to get that ticket, and we could only get one "guarantee" before we had to repeat the cycle again.

FP v2 now gives us the ability to lock in THREE must dos, and we get to stress about it 60 days before our vacation instead of stressing about while we are in the parks crisscrossing from one FP machine to the next all day long. No matter how you shake it, MOST families spending time at an amusement park are going to experience some stress trying to get things accomplished, and all FP+ has done is shift a little bit of that stress 60 days earlier than it was in the past.

Wow, I really disagree with this and I don't really know where to start. To me there is a fundamental difference in having someone from your party grab a fast pass for a ride you want to go on at whatever park you choose to go to that day and being tied to a specific park on a given day. When we would go, there were very few rides that required FP and that you couldn't get a FP for later in the day. And, really THREE must dos? For the most part, especially in the parks that are not MK, you can use FP+ for one ride that you would have needed an old FP for and then 2 others that never would have required a FP in the first place. It has been my experience that the standby lines for rides since FP+ are considerably longer, and this seems to have been documented with data on other sites. For example, the thought that you would need a FP for Nemo/Living Seas is amazing to me. This was almost always a walk on attraction when we go (again in a not so busy time of the year). Now, you have to wait until you have passed the time for all FP+, two of which you traditionally would not have needed, to get another. By that time, they are all out of the major attractions. I don't see how that is less stressful or having the stress removed 60 days ago.

The only advantage I see to the FP+ system is that on a busy day, you can guarantee (without a hour plus wait) yourself a ride at the major attraction for the park you are at that day. And, that is about it. The other 2 FP+ were not required previously and by the time you finish the major ride, you are done getting any meaningful FP for the rest of the day. And, this had to have been scheduled months prior. We tried for a somewhat spontaneous trip, finalized 3 weeks or so before we left, and we could not get Mine Train FP+ ever because they were all sold out.

I long for the days when you could pick the park you wanted that day, or change your mind about what park you were going to (not having to stick to a plan you made 2 months prior) and ride rides. I never had a problem crossing a park for my family to get FPs. It may be different for some, but for us, we end up on far fewer rides with the FP+ system than we ever did with FP or before even that.

I think the system is perfect for people that like to stick to a rigid schedule, want to show up in the parks late morning or around lunch time to ride 3 rides (maybe one or two more), and then go back to the resort. But if you are active and enjoy getting to the parks early and riding a lot of rides, park hopping, etc... I cannot see how this is better.

Regardless of others' opinions on FP+, I can state that personally it has reduced my level of enjoyment in the parks and has actually been a major factor for us not going this year. I also realize that we go in a less crowded time of the year and our opinions may be different if we were there for peak times - however, there is a reason we go during the less busy times.

[1DisneyNut]

Wow, I really disagree with this and I don't really know where to start. To me there is a fundamental difference in having someone from your party grab a fast pass for a ride you want to go on at whatever park you choose to go to that day and being tied to a specific park on a given day. When we would go, there were very few rides that required FP and that you couldn't get a FP for later in the day. And, really THREE must dos? For the most part, especially in the parks that are not MK, you can use FP+ for one ride that you would have needed an old FP for and then 2 others that never would have required a FP in the first place. It has been my experience that the standby lines for rides since FP+ are considerably longer, and this seems to have been documented with data on other sites. For example, the thought that you would need a FP for Nemo/Living Seas is amazing to me. This was almost always a walk on attraction when we go (again in a not so busy time of the year). Now, you have to wait until you have passed the time for all FP+, two of which you traditionally would not have needed, to get another. By that time, they are all out of the major attractions. I don't see how that is less stressful or having the stress removed 60 days ago.

The only advantage I see to the FP+ system is that on a busy day, you can guarantee (without a hour plus wait) yourself a ride at the major attraction for the park you are at that day. And, that is about it. The other 2 FP+ were not required previously and by the time you finish the major ride, you are done getting any meaningful FP for the rest of the day. And, this had to have been scheduled months prior. We tried for a somewhat spontaneous trip, finalized 3 weeks or so before we left, and we could not get Mine Train FP+ ever because they were all sold out.

I long for the days when you could pick the park you wanted that day, or change your mind about what park you were going to (not having to stick to a plan you made 2 months prior) and ride rides. I never had a problem crossing a park for my family to get FPs. It may be different for some, but for us, we end up on far fewer rides with the FP+ system than we ever did with FP or before even that.

I think the system is perfect for people that like to stick to a rigid schedule, want to show up in the parks late morning or around lunch time to ride 3 rides (maybe one or two more), and then go back to the resort. But if you are active and enjoy getting to the parks early and riding a lot of rides, park hopping, etc... I cannot see how this is better.

Regardless of others' opinions on FP+, I can state that personally it has reduced my level of enjoyment in the parks and has actually been a major factor for us not going this year. I also realize that we go in a less crowded time of the year and our opinions may be different if we were there for peak times - however, there is a reason we go during the less busy times.

My thoughts exactly.

I will add that we found ourselves crossing the park far far more running around to FP+ times than we ever did with the old paper FP system. As has been mentioned by many, you rarely needed a FP for more than one, maybe two attractions in each park prior to FP+. However, now with FP+, the wait times are substantial for rides that rarely ever had more than 15 minutes in the past. It is a direct result of the new system giving FP+ for these rides, especially when the major attractions are out of FP+. People that have these show up in batches and the CM's completely stop the standby line and feed the FP+ line in which causes large wait times that take quite a while to work themselves back out. By the time the standby line normalizes, another parade or show or whatever ends and here comes another batch of FP+ to the rides and back the standby up again.

Another point I will make is the stress isn't just at the 60 day mark, it doesn't end there. To us, it is worse during the actual trip because you get to the park you set up 2 months ago, it is busy, the crowd flow is weird or there is weather that affects your day, there is a show or parade at a particular time you didn't know about or now decided you want to see and guess what......you have a conflict with a FP+ you scheduled 2 months ago. So here you are in the park, on what is supposed to be a vacation with your face in your phone trying to adjust your schedule to fit what you now want to do. For me, that is just like being at work. I run a business and have to make appointments, schedule, work out issues all day long every day and that is the last thing I want to do on vacation.

We used to go 2 and 3 times a year but when FP+ went into place we stopped going and just now went on our first trip with it in place. It was every bit of annoying as I was afraid it would be and more.

Now that I have used FP+, I can tell you who benefits most from it and probably loves it and that would be slackers. The guy that shows up 15 minutes late for everything, drags around about getting to his appointments and getting work done. It is perfect for them because they can drag around in the morning and show up at 1:00 or 2:00 in the afternoon, hit their 3 FP+'s and maybe a show or one other ride and then go to their dining ADR they made 6 months ago, eat and then call it a day. lol

[Goofy4TheWorld]

However, now with FP+, the wait times are substantial for rides that rarely ever had more than 15 minutes in the past. It is a direct result of the new system giving FP+ for these rides, especially when the major attractions are out of FP+.

From what I had read and experienced, the lines are long no matter what you do. The E-ticket Standby lines are longer than ever, the FP+ entry lines are longer than the old paper FP lines, the ABCD-ticket attraction's Standby lines are longer, the bus lines, the food lines, the park exit, it's all a mess. Unless Disney had reduced the throughput of all of the attractions, the total number of people riding the "big rides" hasn't changed because of FP+, it's just that there are more people in the park than in the past.

If FP+ made Haunted Mansion lines get longer, what was the offset attraction who's line went down?

[joonyer]

From what I had read and experienced, the lines are long no matter what you do. The E-ticket Standby lines are longer than ever, the FP+ entry lines are longer than the old paper FP lines, the ABCD-ticket attraction's Standby lines are longer, the bus lines, the food lines, the park exit, it's all a mess. Unless Disney had reduced the throughput of all of the attractions, the total number of people riding the "big rides" hasn't changed because of FP+, it's just that there are more people in the park than in the past.



This is the real problem. The more crowded the world gets, the less spontaneity one can have; more people means everybody has to wait more, regardless of the FP/advance pass system in use. The attractions can still only have the same number of riders per hour. It's simple math. If the crowds were sparse enough, you'd never have to wait in any line, and never need a dinner reservation, and eventually the parks would close for lack of business. But it seems that the theme park business is more popular than ever. Our choice is to either get in line, or go somewhere else on vacation. If enough people do that, the crowds will be reduced and the parks will be more manageable. I'm not counting on that happening.

[TheVBs]

For me, the only monster shortcoming of FP+ is the terrible IT behind it all. Disney IT has become complacent with having unstable, flaky, and sometimes even demon-possessed computer systems at all levels of IT, from ADRs, rooms, tickets, FP+, both public and internal computer systems are just a mess. Disney IT has a culture which accepts downtime, appears to have no problem with an "upgrade" creating catastrophic downtime for guests currently on their vacation, and based on my own recent calls to MDE tech support, are now becoming annoyed with anyone who does not accept "give it some time and it will work out" as a solution to the problem I have called about (and waited 45 minutes on hold to boot).

As for the "planning stress" of FP+, I just do not understand why people get so upset about it. Ever since 1971 most families have been trying to "get it all in" and "beat the crowds" at Disney. FP v1 gave us the ability to take some of the pressure off of getting that must-do ride by giving us a time within an hour or two, but we had to stress about physically walking over to the FP machine to get that ticket, and we could only get one "guarantee" before we had to repeat the cycle again.

FP v2 now gives us the ability to lock in THREE must dos, and we get to stress about it 60 days before our vacation instead of stressing about while we are in the parks crisscrossing from one FP machine to the next all day long. No matter how you shake it, MOST families spending time at an amusement park are going to experience some stress trying to get things accomplished, and all FP+ has done is shift a little bit of that stress 60 days earlier than it was in the past.

Have to agree with all that you've said. First of all, the fact that Disney, of all companies, settles for shoddy IT mystifies me. There's no excuse for it. They certainly have the money to fix it.

I also agree with the FP vs. FP+ shifting the stress. I do like that with FP+, we walk in knowing we're going to get on rides like TSM or 7DMT. In fact, we'd never been on TSM before FP+ because we weren't willing to do the wait time. And, you're right, going into the parks and relying on the old FP system didn't net any guarantees either.

As for rides that you wouldn't typically need a FP for now being on the FP+ system, I wonder if most of us who think this is silly are traditionally going at slower times? I've seen the massive line capacity some of these rides have that are typically walk ons when we go. Perhaps this system is making a huge difference to those who can only go during the busiest times.




Now that I have used FP+, I can tell you who benefits most from it and probably loves it and that would be slackers. The guy that shows up 15 minutes late for everything, drags around about getting to his appointments and getting work done. It is perfect for them because they can drag around in the morning and show up at 1:00 or 2:00 in the afternoon, hit their 3 FP+'s and maybe a show or one other ride and then go to their dining ADR they made 6 months ago, eat and then call it a day. lol

You are hilarious! This actually made me giggle out loud. My goodness! If someone likes a relaxed vacation where they sleep in once in awhile then they must be total life slackers? Doesn't that contradict the argument that this whole system is causing too much stress?

[waymickey]

I have used fast pass + twice now and must say I loved it the first time and hated the second time. It was a trip killer IMHO. First day second trip, I used three fastpasses at Epcot hopped to AK and wanted a fast pass to Mickey meet and greet. I Was told that was a no go "cant do that". MY DD was working with Mickey at that time and I was trying to surprise visit her. Could not do it. There was no line for Mickey but I could not use the Fastpass line (since there is just one mickey) So DD was hanging with mickey alone in a room and no way for me to surprise her since no fastpass could be made. Waste of time for the visitor and for the workers.
The rest of the trip all the Fastpasses for any of the must do rides were gone for the week. No I did not make FP+ 30 or 60 days out. I did not know I was going. I am going back during the dreaded Christmas week to see my DD and I do not plan to go to the parks. My plan right now is to resort hop, see the sights, rent a boat, visit the horses at the ranch, and eat.
There are way more people in the parks, way more.Not a busy week by any means in the past. The flow is wonky and rides broke down constatnly. While in line; nemo, pirates, haunted mansion, thunder mountian, pirates again, and space mountain all went down. :(

[1DisneyNut]

Have to agree with all that you've said. First of all, the fact that Disney, of all companies, settles for shoddy IT mystifies me. There's no excuse for it. They certainly have the money to fix it.

I also agree with the FP vs. FP+ shifting the stress. I do like that with FP+, we walk in knowing we're going to get on rides like TSM or 7DMT. In fact, we'd never been on TSM before FP+ because we weren't willing to do the wait time. And, you're right, going into the parks and relying on the old FP system didn't net any guarantees either.

As for rides that you wouldn't typically need a FP for now being on the FP+ system, I wonder if most of us who think this is silly are traditionally going at slower times? I've seen the massive line capacity some of these rides have that are typically walk ons when we go. Perhaps this system is making a huge difference to those who can only go during the busiest times.



You are hilarious! This actually made me giggle out loud. My goodness! If someone likes a relaxed vacation where they sleep in once in awhile then they must be total life slackers? Doesn't that contradict the argument that this whole system is causing too much stress?


I think you missed the point I was trying to make. One of the groups that I would think love FP+ would be slackers/late to the party type people. It puts them on an even playing field as far as FP goes. It takes the old saying of "the early bird gets the worm" and throws it out the window.

They still won't get as much done because they miss so much park time but those type people are the ones that always complained because all the good paper FP's were gone by the time they got to the park at 2 in the afternoon. That is the reason I think that group probably loves FP+.

My argument is all the planning and adjusting is stressful. I can't comprehend how not getting to "sleep in" could be stressful although I guess for some people maybe it is but for me it is right the opposite; if I am not up and getting after it in the morning, my stress level goes through the roof.



From what I had read and experienced, the lines are long no matter what you do. The E-ticket Standby lines are longer than ever, the FP+ entry lines are longer than the old paper FP lines, the ABCD-ticket attraction's Standby lines are longer, the bus lines, the food lines, the park exit, it's all a mess. Unless Disney had reduced the throughput of all of the attractions, the total number of people riding the "big rides" hasn't changed because of FP+, it's just that there are more people in the park than in the past.

If FP+ made Haunted Mansion lines get longer, what was the offset attraction who's line went down?

You used to be able to get to the park early and blow through rides like crazy until around noon or a little after without even using FP but now since they do FP+, a lot and I mean a lot of people schedule them for first thing in the morning and that causes standby lines to be long right out of the gate. You can't just show up early and blow through all the popular rides in the standby lines like you used to and then later all those that had early FP+ are in the standby lines making them even longer. That is how it has made standby lines longer throughout the day although throughput is still the same.

The week we were there was busy for this time of year but wasn't even in the ball park as busy as the 4th of July weeks we have been in the past so I can tell you by comparison that FP+ has obviously affected the wait times.

After being there for a week fighting the system, I finally figured out how to work the system in my favor but I couldn't adjust all of my FP+'s to work to my advantage because of lack of availability for the times I would have needed. When we go back, I will most likely be able to outmaneuver the majority of the crowds but it is going to require an entirely different attack plan than what I used to use prior to FP+. The traffic flow, standby lines and FP system is just totally different than it used to be and is really weird if you have been to WDW a lot and knew how to work the old system.

[DisneyGiant]

I keep lobbying for more fast passes. After each trip, I write to Guest Relations with that suggestion. I want the ability to book 5 fast passes in the Magic Kingdom - then I'll be content. :)

Epcot & DHS are jokes - only 2 attractions really need FP. Maybe more could be used at AK - but really MK needs more.

I have not been successful in gaining the extra fast pass after the 3rd one is over. There are virtually none available for the E ticket attraction.

On my last trip - on the last day, I found it amusing to use FPs for the Electric Parade & Fireworks. They were readily available that day, around noon.

[TheVBs]

I think you missed the point I was trying to make. One of the groups that I would think love FP+ would be slackers/late to the party type people. It puts them on an even playing field as far as FP goes. It takes the old saying of "the early bird gets the worm" and throws it out the window.

They still won't get as much done because they miss so much park time but those type people are the ones that always complained because all the good paper FP's were gone by the time they got to the park at 2 in the afternoon. That is the reason I think that group probably loves FP+.

My argument is all the planning and adjusting is stressful. I can't comprehend how not getting to "sleep in" could be stressful although I guess for some people maybe it is but for me it is right the opposite; if I am not up and getting after it in the morning, my stress level goes through the roof.


Ah. Yes, I got that reasoning backwards didn't I? Sorry about that. I can see what you're saying now.

As far as sleeping in goes, it depends on where we are. I get stressed if we sleep too late on a WDW trip too! Although as we get towards the end of our trips we tend to have later nights and aren't getting up as early. I would go nuts if we didn't get to a park until 2pm! So would DH.

On other trips I definitely enjoy sleeping in a little. It depends on where we are and what there is to do.

[Bass T-bone]

Too many people in the parks...

If it's ever going to return to 'normal' they are going to have to build another theme park...
or raise the prices so much that only the financially well off can go.

[The Dad]

[QUOTE=Bass T-bone

"or raise the prices so much that only the financially well off can go."[/QUOTE]
What the heck.....they did that a long time ago! MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE!!!

[IMADisneyFreak]

The one thing I miss the most and the one thing that has been overlooked in this entire post was the flexibility and freedom of physically having a FP ticket in your hand. There were times we decided that we were not going to venture over to a ride for the FP time on our tickets and instead would walk up to someone and hand them our FP tickets. The smile it brought made it worth while. THAT's spontaneity! And on the flip side, I recall standing in line for ToT with my daughter, waiting 90 minutes and finally enjoying the ride. We were walking through the gift shop to meet up with my wife and son when she said she wished she could ride it again but because the standby line was so long I told her that we would try later. Then a woman walked up to us and asked if we wanted her FP for the ride because their plans had changed and they were leaving the park. The time stamp was within the next 10 minutes. My daughter was so excited that we were able to get right back on. We have not been to WDW since the FP+ launch but we plan on going in another year or so. This post was insightful but I must admit that it is disappointing to know that our vacation may be more of a chore rather than a time to enjoy the magic.

[i'm grumpy]

One trip I was able to ride RNR 7 times. I guess those days are gone.

[TheVBs]

One trip I was able to ride RNR 7 times. I guess those days are gone.

They aren't! Our girls did it on our last trip (Aug. 2015). They were able to just keep getting back in line for RNR one afternoon. They were in heaven!

[Park Hopper]

This post was insightful but I must admit that it is disappointing to know that our vacation may be more of a chore rather than a time to enjoy the magic.

Good point about the ability to transfer the old FPs to others. Now, you would need their magic band!

However, do not be too disappointed - it is still Disney World. For those of us that had an aggressive strategy of getting to the parks early and maximizing the use of the Fast Passes throughout the day, hopping from park to park, etc.., the new system is really a big disappointment. For others, who only need to ride a ride once per day (not 2-3 times or more), have adequate advance time to plan, and are less likely to deviate from their plans, this system works, as it gives you 3 guaranteed rides at specific time slots of your choosing.

For first time visitors, they will not know what it used to be. For those of us who remember and used the system well, it is disappointing. The old system really rewarded the active (in terms of arriving early and ability/desire to pound the pavement) people who enjoyed maximizing the number of rides in a given day. The new system is really a dagger in that type of touring plan, in my opinion. And, as discussed, forces you to a more rigid and less adaptable schedule.

You will still have fun, but it will not be as fun as it used to be if you fit into the more aggressive touring style described above. I don't think we have had time to get a full grasp of the numbers yet, but I am willing to bet that due to the work, cost, and somewhat more limited offerings (it sounds like at least this part is changing), repeat visitors that go somewhat frequently will be down, especially with the competition from Universal.

For us, with Soaring and most of HS currently down, the hassle involved with FP+, and the ever increasing costs, we decided not to go on our annual trip this January. We are DVC members and will definitely be back, but probably not with the frequency that we once traveled.

[EeyoresBestFriend]

I miss the days of spontaneity, good street entertainment and Magical moments.

Both DH and I are people watchers and we noticed on this last trip how you didn't see a lot of folks, in groups or otherwise, appearing to have fun. Not a lot of laughing or happy wandering people looking at the sights as we have seen in the past. There seemed to be a general air of desperation and rush everywhere and the lines had a lot of groaning, crabby folks that were stressing about their next FP or ADR. It sure seemed that the Magic was not often in the air. It was sad. If this had been my first time at WDW, I don't think I'd be going back.

Well done, Disney. (sarcasm not withstanding)

[Johnno52]

The FPs and ADRs work well in many cases and it's great for Disney as they can control crowds to parks and restaurants. One week stays must be hell for many people as listed here. Thankfully we are retired and spend weeks in Disney and the Orlando area.
Our planning comes the morning when we decide what and where to go. We have a vehicle so it is easier to get around the parks and resorts. We seldom eat at the parks as we would rather the use the resorts or outside restaurants. The dining plan does not work for us and we feel it not only limited the menu, but also over-inflated the price.
The FPs are done the morning of the visit which cannot be done by short stay visitors. If we can't get one we just enjoy walking through the parks and getting on attractions when not too long of a wait.
We now avoid weekend visits to Parks, as stated they are very busy.
It is sad that many cannot relax and enjoy the park due to scheduling. It costs a lot of money for these trips and may get to the point that some people will finely just not return or less frequently!

[1DisneyNut]

I miss the days of spontaneity, good street entertainment and Magical moments.

Both DH and I are people watchers and we noticed on this last trip how you didn't see a lot of folks, in groups or otherwise, appearing to have fun. Not a lot of laughing or happy wandering people looking at the sights as we have seen in the past. There seemed to be a general air of desperation and rush everywhere and the lines had a lot of groaning, crabby folks that were stressing about their next FP or ADR. It sure seemed that the Magic was not often in the air. It was sad. If this had been my first time at WDW, I don't think I'd be going back.

Well done, Disney. (sarcasm not withstanding)

We noticed the same thing. People seemed stressed out and didn't seem to be enjoying themselves as much. Another thing we noticed is there seemed to be a far higher percentage of first time visitors vs. experienced visitors. You can always spot the ones that are new. If people are returning less frequently for return visits but currently more first time visitors are coming how is that sustainable? Every single person I know that has taken their first ever trip in the past year and a half or so have said they would never ever go back. It makes me wonder how it is going to play out over say the next 5 years.

[Johnno52]

We noticed the same thing. People seemed stressed out and didn't seem to be enjoying themselves as much. Another thing we noticed is there seemed to be a far higher percentage of first time visitors vs. experienced visitors. You can always spot the ones that are new. If people are returning less frequently for return visits but currently more first time visitors are coming how is that sustainable? Every single person I know that has taken their first ever trip in the past year and a half or so have said they would never ever go back. It makes me wonder how it is going to play out over say the next 5 years.

Yes I agree however, I think Disney wants the first timers as they spend more money on their initial visits. Yearly returnees don't buy many souvineers and do less spending due to knowing the deals and getting the biggest bang for their money!
We like most multi visitors, "know the ropes" so to speak. Most of us don't do the no expense spared vacations and we are not what puts Disney over the top in profits, we just maintain their base.
With the Magic Bands they can keep tabs on not only where we've been but also how much we spend! We only use cash when visiting which would skew their tabulations!

[EeyoresBestFriend]

We noticed the same thing. People seemed stressed out and didn't seem to be enjoying themselves as much. Another thing we noticed is there seemed to be a far higher percentage of first time visitors vs. experienced visitors. You can always spot the ones that are new. If people are returning less frequently for return visits but currently more first time visitors are coming how is that sustainable? Every single person I know that has taken their first ever trip in the past year and a half or so have said they would never ever go back. It makes me wonder how it is going to play out over say the next 5 years.

I've heard the same thing from folks that we spoke to down there. They mentioned that Disney wasn't as good as they had hoped it would be. One family said that they were upset that they had wasted their time and money on this vacation.

Such a difference from our first experience 15 years ago.

[JerseyDad]

Y'all obviously don't know what you are talking about. Tom Staggs HIMSELF said the FP+ creates more spontaneity. {sarcasm off}

.....yup ....as spontaneous ....and fun ...as a scheduled root canal.

[Ian]

Not a fan either ... but to play Devil's Advocate to myself (a funny concept I'll admit lol) the parks are jammed more and more every year, so they must be doing something right.

[Ian]

Every single person I know that has taken their first ever trip in the past year and a half or so have said they would never ever go back. It makes me wonder how it is going to play out over say the next 5 years.Saw this after I replied the first time ... I've heard the same thing from several folks. Be very interesting to see if this current attendance bubble is sustainable.

If I had to guess I would say it is (there's a sucker born every minute remember ;) ), but only time will tell.

[WDWgoofy]

I was thinking today how frustrated I was with the whole FastPass+. I thought it would be a fun get-away for my wife and me to head to WDW in early Feb for a short 3 day visit, but I can't consider this since I needed to plan the whole thing 60 days ahead of time.

It is a shame this confounded system is ruining the entire experience for the people that most enjoy WDW.

[kat-n-mouse]

We noticed the same thing. People seemed stressed out and didn't seem to be enjoying themselves as much. Another thing we noticed is there seemed to be a far higher percentage of first time visitors vs. experienced visitors. You can always spot the ones that are new. If people are returning less frequently for return visits but currently more first time visitors are coming how is that sustainable? Every single person I know that has taken their first ever trip in the past year and a half or so have said they would never ever go back. It makes me wonder how it is going to play out over say the next 5 years.

Exactly! We've been going to WDW for 30 years and this year's visit was so strange. We went in October and the entire "flow" of the park was somehow off. There were crowds in places that normally don't have crowds and backups for no apparent reason. Everyone just seemed so stressed and slightly miserable. No smiling people and laughing children, just brisk walkers shoving and pushing and parents pulling their kids. It was like they were checking the box and running from place to place. The lines reminded me of the days in the 80's before FP when we stood in line for 90 minutes during the summer months. One day we spent the entire day at Epcot and were only able to ride 3 rides (we only got 2 FP+ rides and one didn't even need a FP). We couldn't get dinner reservations ahead of time but were able to walk into an empty restaurant at 7:00. It was just a strange visit for us. We also visited Disneyland this summer and found the lines to be crazy and we spent 8 hours there and were only able to ride 3 rides and couldn't not eat in the park. We ended up hungry at 8:00 pm and left to go somewhere off-site to eat. Just a little disappointed this year and I am Disney crazy. Hope it gets better someday. I want to see happy people and happy families enjoying the "Happiest Place on Earth" that I remember.

[mrte62]

Our last visit was the first week of October 2014. Our experience really matches what has been posted; unhappy people, running (and I mean running) from one end of a park to the other to make sure a FP was used in the allotted time.

Our 4 young adults all noted the same thing - the Disney App was the real game changer. Great herds of people moved about based on the wait times noted on the App. Since FPs are doled out months in advance, people are conditioned to look at their phones to see what to do next.

I don't know how big of fans the kids would have been had 2014 been their experience 15 years ago.

[LVT]

Maybe you should read the Dilbert comic strip. I will inform you as to management decision making policies.

[mrte62]

Maybe you should read the Dilbert comic strip. I will inform you as to management decision making policies.

So very true .....