Epcot FP+ Tiering - New for January

[DisneyGiant]

Read this recently. With Soarin going down - this is going to be the new tiering for Epcot FP+:



Tier 1

IllumiNations: Reflections of Earth
Mission: SPACE Green
Mission: SPACE Orange
Test Track
Living with the Land


Tier 2

Journey Into Imagination With Figment
Spaceship Earth
The Seas with Nemo & Friends
Turtle Talk with Crush
Epcot Character Spot



Kind of pathetic huh?

After my trip this year, I wrote into Guest Services with some constructive criticism on this.

The system won't let us grab a 4th FP at another park, unless we use all three up. I don't need FPs for any of the Tier 2 attractions. But we're forced to use them or go without the rest of the day.

Ridiculous. :thedolls:

[VWL Mom]

So now you can't even get TT and Mission Space, seriously? My boys are 20 and 24, we have no interest in any of the Tier 2 except Spaceship Earth. Looks like we'll just be booking early throw aways, what a waste.

[RunDMV]

And the joke that is FP+ gets less funnier....

[deedee73]

I just think this is such a waste. I think the system needs revamped. If you only want 1 or 2 that should be all you need to get. Then when you park hop you could get your 3rd upon park entry and therefore. This system just takes FP away from others who actually may want a FP for one of those less popular rides due to age/likes, etc

[Susan A]

I don t understand why you must choose three attractions as well. They doesn't seem like much programming is involved to make that change.
I don't want to experience a ride I'm not interested in and I especially don't want to take a spot from someone else.

[RunDMV]

I don t understand why you must choose three attractions as well. They doesn't seem like much programming is involved to make that change.
I don't want to experience a ride I'm not interested in and I especially don't want to take a spot from someone else.

You ever have boss that micromanaged every aspect of your job? This kind of management reduces your performance and lessens your job satisfaction. In the end, the business loses. That is what Disney is doing here. Micromanaging crowds. For most guests, it reduces vacation satisfaction and in the long run, it does more harm than good.

Many other parks follow Disney's leads on their new practices. Have you seen any other parks adopting a similar tactic?

[Terra]

I have to say for us personally, this works out great. With a 7 and 9 year old, they love many of these. Right now we can't really do TT because of my son's bleeding disorder, but they love [and me too, LwtL, The Seas, and characters!
But I do understand how it's not working for others. On that I wish they would just let you do one at a time.

[cuteduck223]

I would bet that mission space goes back to tier 2 once the frozen ride re-opens in norway, which should be soon :)

[ThanxForNoticin]

I have to say for us personally, this works out great. With a 7 and 9 year old, they love many of these. Right now we can't really do TT because of my son's bleeding disorder, but they love [and me too, LwtL, The Seas, and characters!
But I do understand how it's not working for others. On that I wish they would just let you do one at a time.

But if you think about it, this system can work against you, too. There are obviously people taking FP+ at EPCOT for attractions that they don't intend to use - just taking them to meet the requirement of 3 before they can get another someplace else. If people are wasting FP at the places you like to go, it's possible you'll unnecessarily miss out on the times and Tier 2 attractions you enjoy.

[EeyoresBestFriend]

We just returned from the World.

I found the Epcot FP choices to be ridiculous, so my way to deal with it was to book my tier 2 ones first thing in the morning, then the ones I wanted right after that. All three were done before noon.

Would LOVE the option to choose only one or two FPs if that's all I wanted.

[Terra]

But if you think about it, this system can work against you, too. There are obviously people taking FP+ at EPCOT for attractions that they don't intend to use - just taking them to meet the requirement of 3 before they can get another someplace else. If people are wasting FP at the places you like to go, it's possible you'll unnecessarily miss out on the times and Tier 2 attractions you enjoy.
I've not really run into that luckily. I don't really over analyze that much. I just go and have fun. I'm thankful to live local! That said, I'm not a fan of having to pick 3 at a time.

[Dream'nDisney]

So you only get to pick one FP from Tier 1 and two FP's from Tier 2? Is that correct?

[EeyoresBestFriend]

So you only get to pick one FP from Tier 1 and two FP's from Tier 2? Is that correct?

yes - that is correct.

[Cinderelley]

Because Living with the Land ranks up there in demand with Test Track and Mission:Space. . .

[acetate]

Read this recently. With Soarin going down - this is going to be the new tiering for Epcot FP+:



Tier 1

IllumiNations: Reflections of Earth
Mission: SPACE Green
Mission: SPACE Orange
Test Track
Living with the Land


Tier 2

Journey Into Imagination With Figment
Spaceship Earth
The Seas with Nemo & Friends
Turtle Talk with Crush
Epcot Character Spot



Kind of pathetic huh?

After my trip this year, I wrote into Guest Services with some constructive criticism on this.

The system won't let us grab a 4th FP at another park, unless we use all three up. I don't need FPs for any of the Tier 2 attractions. But we're forced to use them or go without the rest of the day.

Ridiculous. :thedolls:

Why do you need a fastpass to watch the fireworks? Why is that on there?

[Terra]

Why do you need a fastpass to watch the fireworks? Why is that on there?

They have a special section roped off for fireworks I believe. That way you don't have to grab a spot early and wait [if you don't want too]. We opt for finding a spot about an hour before, and eating a yummy treat while waiting.

[John]

They have a special section roped off for fireworks I believe. That way you don't have to grab a spot early and wait [if you don't want too]. We opt for finding a spot about an hour before, and eating a yummy treat while waiting.

The problem here is twofold...

1) the FastPass system is broken, it needs to be revamped to be more flexible and allow park hopping. The silliness of making small world etc. a FastPass ride still astounds me. Same with the Land.

2) Epcot is in so serious need of love and attention its not funny. We talked about this on the last podcast and many times before that. If wonders of life were still an attraction, if innovations actually had anything fun to do, if imagination had some imagination, ride closures and rehabs wouldn't hurt so much.

Sad state of affairs...

[BrerGnat]

The problem here is twofold...

1) the FastPass system is broken, it needs to be revamped to be more flexible and allow park hopping. The silliness of making small world etc. a FastPass ride still astounds me. Same with the Land.



To adress this point, it is interesting to know that Disneyland will be rolling out a HEAVILY modified version of FP+ in 2016. Modified because of what a huge failure FP+ has been at WDW. The plan for DL is to keep the paper FP machines and add the ability (not requirement) to get electronic Fastpasses at attractions that have them available via an app using a smartphone. Guests will have to physically be inside the park that they want to get FP in, but there will be no limits (will still have the same limits as current paper FP.) No one will be able to get advance FP except *maybe* DLR (and eventually Good Neighbor) hotel guests. They do plan to add FP to additional attractions, most likely to spread crowds better, which is needed.

Perhaps if this FP experiment goes over well at DL, WDW will change their system to mirror. FP+ in its current state at WDW is a complete disaster, and the Disney execs know it.

[RunDMV]

To adress this point, it is interesting to know that Disneyland will be rolling out a HEAVILY modified version of FP+ in 2016. Modified because of what a huge failure FP+ has been at WDW. The plan for DL is to keep the paper FP machines and add the ability (not requirement) to get electronic Fastpasses at attractions that have them available via an app using a smartphone. Guests will have to physically be inside the park that they want to get FP in, but there will be no limits (will still have the same limits as current paper FP.) No one will be able to get advance FP except *maybe* DLR (and eventually Good Neighbor) hotel guests. They do plan to add FP to additional attractions, most likely to spread crowds better, which is needed.

Perhaps if this FP experiment goes over well at DL, WDW will change their system to mirror. FP+ in its current state at WDW is a complete disaster, and the Disney execs know it.

Until they get rid out that (insert favorite negative adjective here) FP+ 60 day advance reservation system, we will not be back. I simply don't want to do more work for my vacation that I do for my vocation.

[BrerGnat]

Until they get rid out that (insert favorite negative adjective here) FP+ 60 day advance reservation system, we will not be back. I simply don't want to do more work for my vacation that I do for my vocation.

I agree. This is a HUGE difference between the WDW and DL plans and probably the most important. The advance planning is such a nightmare and they have proven that their IT department simply cannot handle it.

[DizneyFreak2002]

Why do you need a fastpass to watch the fireworks? Why is that on there?
To give unknowing guests, or Disney defenders, a false sense of value for the wasted money spent on a failed system...

[RunDMV]

To give unknowing guests, or Disney defenders, a false sense of value for the wasted money spent on a failed system...

This is the way I view FP+:

1) No one, but no, one heard about FP+ and said, "Man, oh, Man! I have to experience THAT!" (As opposed to a new headliner attraction.) No new guests attracted.

2) There is a sizable group that will go to WDW, no matter what. Increased prices for decreased amenities, lack of refurbishment, or FP+, they are still going. Some of these even like FP+. status quo maintained.

3) there is the once-in-a-lifetime guests that goes, deals with FP+ as part of the process, and never comes back or comes back many years later.

4) Then there is the once loyal group for whom FP+was the last straw. They either will never come back or they severely curtail they trips.


In the end, the billion or so dollars spent on this didn't attract a single guest more, alienated a multitude of guests, or maintained the status quo with others.

Only time will tell if WDWs ability to manage crowds and mine data with be worth the trade offs. But if the roll out at DL and the fact that no other large theme parks have trotted out their own version of FP+ speaks loudly.

[Terra]

The problem here is twofold...

1) the FastPass system is broken, it needs to be revamped to be more flexible and allow park hopping. The silliness of making small world etc. a FastPass ride still astounds me. Same with the Land.

2) Epcot is in so serious need of love and attention its not funny. We talked about this on the last podcast and many times before that. If wonders of life were still an attraction, if innovations actually had anything fun to do, if imagination had some imagination, ride closures and rehabs wouldn't hurt so much.

Sad state of affairs...
I do miss WoL. I even loved the campy The Making of Me. And my now 9 year old saw it when he was about 2 and loved it then! Imagine with a Pharma or Med sponser, all that they could do with such advancement. My son would love that! He's so into science and medicine.

I sure don't think it's perfect and agree it needs love.
But I still love going to WDW and always find something to do at the same time!

[DizneyFreak2002]

This is the way I view FP+:

1) No one, but no, one heard about FP+ and said, "Man, oh, Man! I have to experience THAT!" (As opposed to a new headliner attraction.) No new guests attracted.

2) There is a sizable group that will go to WDW, no matter what. Increased prices for decreased amenities, lack of refurbishment, or FP+, they are still going. Some of these even like FP+. status quo maintained.

3) there is the once-in-a-lifetime guests that goes, deals with FP+ as part of the process, and never comes back or comes back many years later.

4) Then there is the once loyal group for whom FP+was the last straw. They either will never come back or they severely curtail they trips.


In the end, the billion or so dollars spent on this didn't attract a single guest more, alienated a multitude of guests, or maintained the status quo with others.

Only time will tell if WDWs ability to manage crowds and mine data with be worth the trade offs. But if the roll out at DL and the fact that no other large theme parks have trotted out their own version of FP+ speaks loudly.

Attendance hasn't increased due to FP+... Attendance has increased due to: 1) Potter coming to Universal and people saying HEY LETS DO DISNEY TOO, and 2) economy has gotten better...

Disney was, at a point, not growing in attendance despite TEA's numbers... Magical Express failed to keep visitors on site... Perks for resort guests have all but diminished... AP holders have seen their perks wiped out... When you spend over 2 billion bucks and it is an object failure, gotta make it up somehow... Increase prices drastically, cut perks, reduce offerings... That was, and to a point, still is the MO at WDW... Thankfully TDO has less control over major projects today...

I do believe the corner is turning in WDW though... Star Wars land, Toy Story land (though cheap), Avatar... They are only the beginning... We will have style and substance with Star Wars Land... Toy Story, well little substance but lots of style, but to be fair, it really is intended to be a family friendly area.... Avatar will have a lot of style, not sure on substance yet cause Soarin 2.0 does not do it for me, but the boat ride should be pretty amazing... I think the new Fantasyland area is the end of the all style no substance garbage being fed to WDW...

I also hold the right to be wrong about the corner turning in WDW...

[Terra]

Attendance hasn't increased due to FP+... Attendance has increased due to: 1) Potter coming to Universal and people saying HEY LETS DO DISNEY TOO, and 2) economy has gotten better...



Where did you find the data/stats or #1? [People doing WDW as an afterthought as they plan Universal]?
It's been my experience with being involved in quite a few other non-disney related forums, and IRL, 99% of the time people are coming and/or re-visiting WDW, with Universal being the after thought or the day or two park.

[CaptSmee]

Mission Space & Living With The Land in same tier as Test Track? Lmao
It's going to be bad next year when people have to choose between Soarin, TT, & Frozen. Massive lines will ensue

[EeyoresBestFriend]

Tripping parks here, but let's not forget how important that Muppets FP is for DHS! :silly:

[DizneyFreak2002]

Where did you find the data/stats or #1? [People doing WDW as an afterthought as they plan Universal]?
It's been my experience with being involved in quite a few other non-disney related forums, and IRL, 99% of the time people are coming and/or re-visiting WDW, with Universal being the after thought or the day or two park.
Sorry I didn't post sooner... Just got back from a week in Orlando..

I base it on several factors... The numbers and people who I know and talk to in the industry... WDW attendance was flat, hotels were down, and I believe AK, or was it DHS, lost guests? Actually, despite TEA's numbers, DHS continued to lose guests and were not pulling nearly 10 million, no matter what TEA was saying... Potter opened in 2010, and Universal's attendance skyrocketed (I mean, they could only go up right? LOL)... Look at WDW's numbers from the same time, and WDW's numbers started showing some increases.. Of course, not as much as Universal's, but that's obvious...

Also, several travel agents I know (my aunt included, so just putting that out there one of them is a relative), have said this is the first time they could ever remember people saying they want to go to Universal, and have made WDW an afterthought, or a secondary place to visit... And with that, MK seems to be getting the love...

Also, it is not a coincidence Orlando broke tourism records since Potter opened...

Put two and two together and it is easy to see that Potter has helped bring more people to Orlando and Disney...

So, more and more people are making Epcot, DHS, and DAK an afterthought, while making Universal their destination... And taking a day out for MK...

And besides, I think it's a good thing... Disney can no longer rest on their laurels, which they have been doing in WDW for 15-20 years... Diagon Alley blows away many of the areas in WDW's theme parks, especially Fantasyland... Now we wait to see if Avatar gets things rolling again in WDW... if not, we have to wait for Star Wars land to open in DHS to see if things have been learned in Florida...

[DizneyFreak2002]

Oh and let me post this as well... Wednesday night I was in Epcot... Used my three FP choices on 1) Soarin 2) Nemo and 3) Spaceship Earth... I went for a 4th and chose Illuminations to see just how silly this is... Well, still my opinion that it is NOT needed... The FP area is right in front of the lagoon between the twin gift shops.... That's the location I ALWAYS stood to watch Illuminations... And in July I found a new place, over by France... Honestly, it's been my experience there is not one bad spot around the lagoon... So while I prefer the FP spot, FP is NOT needed for Illuminations, and yes, it is just to make people think there is value in this failed FP program...