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View Full Version : Dishing on Downton- Downton Abbey Season 5



AgentC
01-21-2015, 09:32 PM
Okay Downton Abbey fans, it's back.

Whose watching? Are you enjoying Season 5? What do you think of the story line so far?

I'm liking that they have given the Dowager a story line that is is her own as opposed to just being a part of the other stories. I'm finding the Mary story line to be pretty predictable. I'm not sure about Tom's plot. I find the teacher to be rather annoying. And I'm over tragedy for Anna, Bates , and Edith. Seriously let the poor characters have a day of happiness.

So what's everyone else thinking?

SBETigg
01-21-2015, 10:39 PM
I agree-- I really wish they would change the tragedy focus off Anna, Bates, and Edith. Let them have the good year for a change. Let's see Mary suffer some consequences finally. I'm waiting for her to find out about Marigold and judge Edith harshly when she has done the same thing. I would rather they bonded over their boldness, but I can't see it happening. Mary is so above it all.

I do love Violet and Isobel, and Violet's Russian story. I'm still not sure why we're suddenly supposed to accept Rose doing volunteer work, though? Did I miss something there maybe? It seems out of character. I feel like they really haven't decided who they want Rose to be.

I don't like the teacher much either, and I think Tom made the decision to be part of the Downton Abbey life to raise Sybil's daughter and he should be a man and stick to that and see what it means. He didn't go into that life blindly, so he should be able to see why his friend is out of line in his house. Even if he still has a rebellious streak. I do like Cora having something to do, finally, and Robert was completely unfair to her. I like it when he has to be more self aware. And I like poor Moseley struggling along. And Barrow having more to do than just be mean to everyone seems promising, too. Overall, I feel like it could be a good season but it's still too soon to tell.

BriarRose0708
01-22-2015, 09:20 AM
I'm with both of you on the tragedy fatigue with certain characters. I hope Edie gets to find her guy, there better be a resolution with that! The scenes between the Dowager and Isobel are better than ever, I love Violet's meddling in Isobel's love life, she is so sharp.

While I've never been Lady Mary's biggest fan, I like that they're using her storyline to explore women's reproductive health issues and upper class social norms when it comes to love and marriage and decision-making. I find Lord Gillingham more boring than toast so I hope she doesn't choose him, but I'm liking the more modern and forward-thinking Mary than the stuck-in-1895-stubborn-snotty Mary. She's still plenty snotty, but it doesn't annoy me as much now.

TheDuckRocks
01-22-2015, 10:02 AM
I'm still not sure why we're suddenly supposed to accept Rose doing volunteer work, though? Did I miss something there maybe? It seems out of character. I feel like they really haven't decided who they want Rose to be.

I don't like the teacher much either, and I think Tom made the decision to be part of the Downton Abbey life to raise Sybil's daughter and he should be a man and stick to that and see what it means. He didn't go into that life blindly, so he should be able to see why his friend is out of line in his house. Even if he still has a rebellious streak.

I'm glad to see that someone else was baffled by Rose's new outlook on life. I was thinking that I must have missed an episode last year, as unlikely as that would have been.

I keep hoping that they find an "Abbey acceptable" woman for Tom as I feel he should stick by his decision. Maybe a Rose type but with a brain. Hold on maybe that's where they are going with the new and improved Rose!

magicofdisney
01-22-2015, 10:27 AM
I too love the dynamics of Violet and Isobel's relationship. It was so funny when Robert said Violet would be happy for Isobel should she become a Lady (or whatever the title was). Cora looked at him like he had two heads. :)

I've never cared for Rose. In fact, when I found out that actress is playing Cinderella, I lost a little heart. I found her more interesting last year, but I think things could have progressed nicely without her.

I still don't understand why Mary and Gillingham rendezvoused. Did she honestly not pick up on their incompatibility the year or so he courted her? It's like, "I have to sleep with him to see if we're compatible." Fast forward one week, "Well that wasn't so great. I realize now he's simply boring..." :confused: Sometimes I like Mary and sometimes her superiority makes me want to smack her. BTW, was that a diaphragm that Anna purchased for her?

I DO NOT care for Ms. Bunting at all. :ack: I realize Tom is drawn to a woman that isn't afraid to speak her mind and has strong opinions, but this chick is out of line. Seriously, who dines with someone in their own home and attacks their opinions in front of complete strangers? She has no couth. ;)

Anna and Bates...

I didn't care for Edith initially, but she's won me over. I really just want her to confess so she can have her baby. I don't know why her tragedies stab my heart more than all the others, but I want her to find some happiness and love.

BTW, I like Cora's new lady's maid. And I just love Molesley. I hope those two can make a go of it.

Do you think Mr. Carson and Mrs. Hughes will come together? He seems bothered whenever she's cross with him.

MNNHFLTX
01-22-2015, 06:09 PM
Yes, please--let Edith have some happiness! I always thought her more practical and less spoiled than Mary. Maybe something will happen to Marigold's adoptive mother, so that Marigold can be reunited with Edith?

I thought Mary sending Anna to the store for the necessary "item" was strange and I am wondering if there is going to be some backlash down the road against Anna for it. That whole situation with Mary and Lord Gillingham just doesn't ring true for era it's in, IMO.

Loving Violet and Isobel's interactions this year; some of my favorite scenes!

BriarRose0708
01-26-2015, 03:30 PM
Was it just because I was tired last night, or did anyone else find Sunday's episode a little, er, underwhelming? I didn't find anything really held my attention, even when Robert blew up at the dinner table at Miss Bunting (and it is really time for her to GO) it felt like "eh, been there done that." I just wasn't feeling it the whole time.

SBETigg
01-26-2015, 03:49 PM
Yeah, it was a little dull last night but I was distracted by the SAG awards on at the same time, which I was following on Twitter. Robert is really being a jerk to Cora lately, but he was spot on about Miss Bunting. She's entitled to her opinions, but that is no way to behave as a guest. Of course, Robert should have contained himself a bit. But I think we've all had it with that character, and I don't want her to take Tom away from the family.

More Poor Edith moments, but I feel like we're still in the same place with her as we were last week. They didn't really move her story along any. The bright point was Isobel's proposal. She doesn't really seem to love her suitor back, but it was sweet that he loves her. And she can't listen to Violet. Otherwise, it was a fairly stagnant episode.

BriarRose0708
02-02-2015, 03:53 PM
Finally, some action this week! Mr. Bricker is a moron, BUT I am so mad about this double standard. Robert can make out with a maid a couple seasons ago and continue to ignore his wife (Bricker did have a point there) but then he gets into a cat fight and is totally freezing Cora out??? I get that it's historical but come on.

The Hitchhiking Ghost
02-04-2015, 10:34 AM
Finally, some action this week! Mr. Bricker is a moron, BUT I am so mad about this double standard. Robert can make out with a maid a couple seasons ago and continue to ignore his wife (Bricker did have a point there) but then he gets into a cat fight and is totally freezing Cora out??? I get that it's historical but come on.

To walk into your bed chamber, especially for those of that station, and to find another man in his night robes, standing next to your wife, in that era there really is only one conclusion to draw from it. And Robert was already on edge by how much attention Bricker was paying Cora, so I'd say he was in the right, double standard or not.

Probably the shows biggest downfall is that although there is so much going on, nothing really seems to happen, and some of the characters are just all over the place. Barrow seems to go thru one life hurdle to the next each week, hard to keep up with it. Rose's transformation from "flapper" to concerned social worker for the Russian emigre's seems "off". Looks like we get to spend another season watching Mary figure out who she wants.

Mosely as "first footman" has been hilarious this season and has been enjoyable.

Getting tired of the Anna/Bates and Mr. Greene mystery, just get it over with already.

I did like some of the foreshadowing they did this week with the German brown shirts and the unnamed reference to Hitler. Hopefully Edith's plight can get put to rest finally.

Story lines are all over the place, but the show is so wonderfully done that it compensates for what seems to be lacking in character development.

AgentC
02-04-2015, 10:43 AM
Story lines are all over the place, but the show is so wonderfully done that it compensates for what seems to be lacking in character development.

I am right there with you. The writing on this show sometimes irritates me. Often there is really no change in the characters growth from the beginning to the end of the season. Yet is is so sumptuous to watch, I keep watching.

SBETigg
02-04-2015, 01:00 PM
Finally, some action this week! Mr. Bricker is a moron, BUT I am so mad about this double standard. Robert can make out with a maid a couple seasons ago and continue to ignore his wife (Bricker did have a point there) but then he gets into a cat fight and is totally freezing Cora out??? I get that it's historical but come on.

Robert can be kind of a... well, you know. He has always been a little bit much. And Cora, at least she isn't coming across as a simpering ninny this season. At least, not as much of one. But I agree with you. We're a modern audience with modern sensibilities, so even though, yes, it is more in keeping with the times the way they're portraying this, we can't help but want better for Cora.

PirateLover
02-04-2015, 05:41 PM
I watched the season online as it aired abroad again this year.:secret: I'm not sure exactly where the US airing is at so I'll refrain from commenting on specific plot lines, but I will say overall I enjoyed this season a bit more than last. HHG hit the nail on the head- a few too many plotlines. So much going on that sometimes nothing seems to be going on. And they definitely need a new plotline for Anna/Bates that does not involve a crime!

BriarRose0708
02-05-2015, 09:24 AM
I watched the season online as it aired abroad again this year.:secret: I'm not sure exactly where the US airing is at so I'll refrain from commenting on specific plot lines, but I will say overall I enjoyed this season a bit more than last. HHG hit the nail on the head- a few too many plotlines. So much going on that sometimes nothing seems to be going on. And they definitely need a new plotline for Anna/Bates that does not involve a crime!

The latest episode we saw was the one where Miss Bunting leaves the village (HOORAY!) and MR. Bricker is caught in the bedroom with Cora and he gets beat up by Robert.

SBETigg
02-09-2015, 01:55 PM
Ooh, this was a good episode! Stuff happened. Lady Mary really showed her true colors (nasty and self-absorbed). Could Edith really be happy at last? It left me with hope. Also some interesting developments for other characters.

The Hitchhiking Ghost
02-10-2015, 02:36 PM
Really could not stand Edith this episode. Besides walking around under a storm cloud all the time and expecting all of Yorkshire to mope around with her, she callously and cold-heartedly steals Marigold away from Mrs Drewe in particular.

I get she probably still retained the legal rights, but she treats Marigold like a toy she can play with and drop off, take back and return. This is the 2nd mother that she has now ripped Marigold away from, hard to see Edith as a sympathetic character any more. Unfortunately it looks to be another case of a convenient inheritance (Gregson's business) that will probably allow Edith to function without the family money.

I just wish they could/would put the whole Edith storyline to bed as well as the death of Mr. Greene. I wouldn't mind knowing who actually killed him, but I don't need two-three seasons to find out.

SBETigg
02-10-2015, 05:03 PM
I completely disagree with you on the Edith storyline. Yes, it was hard for the farmer's wife, and I'm sure Marigold will have some issues with that for now. But I think everyone was completely insensitive to Edith, especially Mary. After what Mary went through with Matthew, you think she could have shown her sister some understanding.

I can't blame a woman for moping around when she had the news she was dreading at last, the confirmation of her loved one's death. She was mourning, and it was especially hard because everyone kept carrying on around her like it was nothing. But it acted on Edith as a catalyst to stop living the life forced on her and to make her own choices, choices made possible by her inheritance as it turns out. And I say, good for her! I see it as Edith finally turning her back on the rigid rules and making her own way. It's too bad for the farmer's wife, but she would have cut Edith off entirely from Marigold, which was against the whole purpose of settling Marigold there in the first place.

BriarRose0708
02-11-2015, 09:36 AM
I completely disagree with you on the Edith storyline. Yes, it was hard for the farmer's wife, and I'm sure Marigold will have some issues with that for now. But I think everyone was completely insensitive to Edith, especially Mary. After what Mary went through with Matthew, you think she could have shown her sister some understanding.

I can't blame a woman for moping around when she had the news she was dreading at last, the confirmation of her loved one's death. She was mourning, and it was especially hard because everyone kept carrying on around her like it was nothing. But it acted on Edith as a catalyst to stop living the life forced on her and to make her own choices, choices made possible by her inheritance as it turns out. And I say, good for her! I see it as Edith finally turning her back on the rigid rules and making her own way. It's too bad for the farmer's wife, but she would have cut Edith off entirely from Marigold, which was against the whole purpose of settling Marigold there in the first place.
I agree on all your points, Sherri. It's nice to think Mary would show some sympathy but I think Matthew softened her (she's said as much) and now that he's gone and she's out of mourning for him she's back to her old Season 1 Mary. I love to hate her!

AgentC
02-11-2015, 10:18 AM
I completely disagree with you on the Edith storyline. Yes, it was hard for the farmer's wife, and I'm sure Marigold will have some issues with that for now. But I think everyone was completely insensitive to Edith, especially Mary. After what Mary went through with Matthew, you think she could have shown her sister some understanding.



I was surprised when I was reading recaps of this episode that so many people hated Edith's actions. Yes, it was sad for Mrs. Drewe and I did think that it was sad Edith had hurt two other women but I felt it as offset by the fact that Edith felt she had no choice and with her position in life and society at the time that is a reasonable feeling. If Edith had been in control of the decision she would have never given her baby away. Also if Mr. Drewe had been honest with his wife, it may have been a very different situation there as well.

Mary. Ugh but ugh in a good way. She is definitely more interesting when she is being arrogant and self absorbed.

Bates & Anna- Just please make it stop.

Other high points for me-


The dowager expressing that she does like Isobel
Cora's reprimand of Robert that gets him out of his dressing room
Mr. Carson and Mrs. Hughes- I can totally picture them together in their "shared" house.

TheDuckRocks
02-11-2015, 10:18 AM
I'm also in total agreement with Sherri on the Edith story line.


It's nice to think Mary would show some sympathy but I think Matthew softened her (she's said as much) and now that he's gone and she's out of mourning for him she's back to her old Season 1 Mary. I love to hate her!

I'm right on board with the hating Mary group. I had sort of forgotten, until this week's episode, how truly nasty Mary is to the very core. There is nothing like a good villainess to liven up a story line.

The Hitchhiking Ghost
02-11-2015, 11:13 AM
I completely disagree with you on the Edith storyline. Yes, it was hard for the farmer's wife, and I'm sure Marigold will have some issues with that for now. But I think everyone was completely insensitive to Edith, especially Mary. After what Mary went through with Matthew, you think she could have shown her sister some understanding.

I can't blame a woman for moping around when she had the news she was dreading at last, the confirmation of her loved one's death. She was mourning, and it was especially hard because everyone kept carrying on around her like it was nothing. But it acted on Edith as a catalyst to stop living the life forced on her and to make her own choices, choices made possible by her inheritance as it turns out. And I say, good for her! I see it as Edith finally turning her back on the rigid rules and making her own way. It's too bad for the farmer's wife, but she would have cut Edith off entirely from Marigold, which was against the whole purpose of settling Marigold there in the first place.

Do you remember those Burger King commercials, with the mascot in the big head (still freaks me out) and people would wake up and he'd be next to them in bed, or they'd open their windows first thing in the morning and he'd be there? Well, that's what Edith was turning into. Mrs. Drewe wasn't privy to Edith's secret, all she knew was that an old friend of Mr. Drewe died and asked them to raise the child. So to have Edith stalking the Drewe's and the child was naturally troubling to Mrs. Drewe. If Edith would have simply told her the truth and not been so selfish about her position and reputation maybe things would have been different, but it was her own actions that were creating the chain of events. Sybil managed to marry way out of class and marry and raise her child Catholic, despite her families and societies condemnation of it, yet Edith possesses none of that courage.

She lets everyone else make the choices for her and then she herself shows no remorse in ripping apart someone elses life. I don't see Edith's loss any greater than Mary's, probably less so as they were not together all that long. If Mary were still carrying on like that a year later I'm sure Edith would have had some choice words for her as well. Yeah the timing wasn't great, but Edith is sitting around wondering why all of York hasn't stopped living until she came to terms with it.

Mary lost Mathew, Tom lost Sybil, Cora lost a son, the house lost a footman to the war, Mrs. Patmore lost her nephew, Anna was raped, Bates was in jail, its not like Edith has a monopoly on the "woe is me" category.

I just find her character to be written very unsympathetically.

SBETigg
02-11-2015, 11:17 AM
Yes, Cindy, I loved those scenes, too. Especially Cora finally showing some backbone. And I love Mary in viper mode, too. Great developments.

We're just going to disagree on Edith, Ghost. I have sympathy for Mrs. Drewe. She loved Marigold as her own, and it's horrible to have her ripped away. It was always conditional and she should have been informed of the conditions (probably by her husband, not by Edith) but the fact remains that Edith finally has a way to raise her own child of course, she's going to take it.

The Hitchhiking Ghost
02-11-2015, 01:19 PM
Yes, Cindy, I loved those scenes, too. Especially Cora finally showing some backbone. And I love Mary in viper mode, too. Great developments.

We're just going to disagree on Edith, Ghost. I have sympathy for Mrs. Drewe. She loved Marigold as her own, and it's horrible to have her ripped away. It was always conditional and she should have been informed of the conditions (probably by her husband, not by Edith) but the fact remains that Edith finally has a way to raise her own child of course, she's going to take it.


Was it conditional? I'm trying to recall exactly what the agreement Edith and Drewe struck. Was there actually any intent for Edith to at some point take the child back? I didn't think so, but I could be mistaken.

Edith took the child back from the Schroeders to be closer to Edith in England. But didn't Edith say that was ok, because, well, they got another kid anyway.

I didn't think there was any plan for Edith to ever recognize the child, just be the child's patron.

It was doomed to fail from the beginning, keeping Mrs Drewe in the dark, as you knew Edith couldn't stay away.

SBETigg
02-11-2015, 06:10 PM
I didn't think there was any plan for Edith to ever recognize the child, just be the child's patron.

It was doomed to fail from the beginning, keeping Mrs Drewe in the dark, as you knew Edith couldn't stay away.

Yeah, that was the condition, that Edith would maintain contact. Once Mrs. Drewe cut off Edith instead of allowing her to be the child's patron, Mr. Drewe should have seen it coming and intervened more successfully somehow. It was a bad plan all around, though, I can agree on that. Someone was bound to be hurt in that arrangement, and I can't imagine why Mr. Drewe was willing to take the risk knowing that he was deceiving his wife to help Edith. And anyone could see that Edith was determined to be more in her child's life than a casual visitor.

Katzateer
02-12-2015, 07:41 AM
Yes, I am tired of Bates and Anna storyline going back to Mr. Greene. Lets move on from that enough already. I like Rose. Her character is confusing the way her storylines jump around but for the most part, I have enjoyed her. Soooo glad Ms. Bunting is gone.:ack:

I love Violet and Isobel! Hope Tom finds someone- like his character. Thomas not so much - his character is not very enjoyable. I do like Mr. Moseley but Violet's butler with his puffed up, snotty attitude - don't understand why she puts up with him?? Did I miss something???? He is so rude to her guests.

Hope Edith finds happiness. I wish she could just bring the toddler home and be accepted.

Katzateer
02-12-2015, 07:45 AM
I never did make it to Winterthur in Delaware to see the Downton Abbey costume exhibit- did anyone get to go? It was billed as the only American display for the exhibit but I think now it as moved to a southern location (maybe the Biltmore Estate??cant remember what the paper said)

TheDuckRocks
02-12-2015, 11:38 AM
I think that sometimes we lose the fact of Downton Abbey was in a time very, very different from what we live today. I doubt that the term "double standard" was ever considered then, so Robert and Cora's relationship of course is rather hard to imagine today. And the very idea of a young woman of Edith's station openly having and raising a child without marriage would indeed be covered up.

MNNHFLTX
02-12-2015, 01:06 PM
She lets everyone else make the choices for her and then she herself shows no remorse in ripping apart someone elses life. I don't see Edith's loss any greater than Mary's, probably less so as they were not together all that long. If Mary were still carrying on like that a year later I'm sure Edith would have had some choice words for her as well. Yeah the timing wasn't great, but Edith is sitting around wondering why all of York hasn't stopped living until she came to terms with it.
Funny, I have a completely different perspective on the whole situation with Edith. I have always thought she was a very independent, practical character on the show. When she was stood up at the alter by Sir Anthony, she picked herself up and was at the breakfast table the next morning because "only married women have breakfast in bed". She pursued a writing career, an unusual thing for a woman to do back in the day. And now she has the power and money to take the situation with her daughter back into her own hands. I also feel empathy for Mrs. Drewe's character, but Edith will undoubtedly be a more hands-on mother than Mary has ever been. Marigold will be just fine.

It's not that I really like Edith on the show as much as I like her in comparison to Mary, lol. Aside from her ratting Mary out in the first season for her "indiscretion", Edith has been mostly loyal to the people in her family, while Mary is mainly loyal to Mary and Downton Abbey. When Mary said in this last episode that Gregson was a nice man but "I don't know what he ever saw in Edith", it was so snarky in light of everything going on that it almost made me laugh. This from someone who moped around in dark rooms for pretty much all of season 5 after Matthew died. Anyway, now as she considers which suiters she should allow to pursue her, she puts Anna's relationship with Bates at risk by asking her to hide her "device" for her (I knew that was going to happen!) Ugh! Anway, it's funny how we all have our favorites (or least favorites, as it may be). Guess the show must be doing something right to make us want to debate the subject, lol!

magicofdisney
02-13-2015, 09:35 AM
I finally caught up on my shows last night.

I loved Cora's tactic for getting Grantham over himself. However, it almost felt like a catch 22. For his sake, he should be thankful that she is a forgiving person.

I'm so glad Ms. Bunting is gone.

I've wanted Edith to have her baby from the beginning. I do have sympathy for Mrs. Drewe, but I'm happier for Edith. And while her mourning has lasted a while, the confirmation just arrived and that is what Mary should take into consideration. I'm officially back to disliking Mary. ;)

Mabel Lane Fox is taking Mary in stride. Perhaps it's just for show until she wins back her man. Either Gillingham has changed or I have because I don't much care for him anymore, either.

Thomas really does have a friend in Baxter. Why does he constantly do things to push people away? Periodically he bemoans his lack of friendship and yet he constantly brings it on himself. I don't understand the psychology of his motives.

I find it ironic that we're supposed to accept the double standard given Cora because of the way things were in those times. Yet, we're supposed to believe that Thomas's orientation would have been generally accepted without question. Honestly, as accepting as everyone has been, why is he trying so hard to change? The only impression I've ever had as to why people dislike him is because of how unpleasant he is.

How come no one caught on before that Bates' ticket wasn't torn? Were they just so shocked to know he'd made the purchase in the first place?

OK, I'm slightly confused with the Carson-Hughes storyline. Do you think he wants to marry her? Would it not be out of the ordinary for an unrelated man and woman to invest together during that time period? However, I do love their interactions. He's so formal and she loosens him.

Speaking of formal, I love Spratt. He makes Carson look like a laid back farm hand. Talking with that stiff upper lip cracks me up. I laughed when Violet said the whole household panders to Spratt and he rules with an iron fist. He and Denker are another set I'll enjoy watching. :)

The Hitchhiking Ghost
02-13-2015, 12:02 PM
I finally caught up on my shows last night.

I find it ironic that we're supposed to accept the double standard given Cora because of the way things were in those times. Yet, we're supposed to believe that Thomas's orientation would have been generally accepted without question. Honestly, as accepting as everyone has been, why is he trying so hard to change? The only impression I've ever had as to why people dislike him is because of how unpleasant he is

I don't think Thomas' orientation is as accepted as the show puts on. I think it was end of season 2 or 3 and I think someone was trying to blackmail Thomas and Robert said something like "well, I thought everyone knew" like it wasn't a big deal. But look at the movie that is out right now starring Benedict Cumberbatch, "The Imitation Game" which is about a British codebreaker during WWII that breaks the Germans Enigma code. But post WWII he was imprisoned for his "orientation" and later committed suicide. So while Downton might accept Thomas for who he is, Britain as a whole would not have been accepting in 1924, not when 30 years later they were still imprisoning people for the "illegal act".

SBETigg
02-17-2015, 11:08 AM
I really love Cora this season. Last season, she was so simpering and helpless, and this season we have a more take-charge Cora-- at last. I'm glad they brought her back to a Cora we can appreciate. I also love Violet reminding Mary that a lack of sympathy can be as vulgar as a show of emotion, and her confession about missing her companionship with Isobel was really well done, too, especially her "have some cake" recovery from it. :D

TheDuckRocks
02-17-2015, 11:38 AM
I also love Violet reminding Mary that a lack of sympathy can be as vulgar as a show of emotion.

A loud "Yes" and a fist pump caused my husband to look at me as if I was from another planet. Oh well, after 52 years you'd think he'd be used to me by now.

The Hitchhiking Ghost
02-17-2015, 02:14 PM
Did anyone catch the Dowager vs. Isobel clip that ran after the credits?

After the show ended I was fast forwarding (as it always seems to end 4-5 minutes prior to the hour on my dvr) and as I was getting to the end they had a special 2 minute or so segment on the quips/barbs between Violet and Isobel, and then started to keep score, like in a tennis match :D

The Dowager one 8-3, or something like that, although Isobel did land a couple good one-liners.

The scene with Cora-Rosamund-Edith in the publishing house actually for once showed Cora as somewhat commanding instead of someone who seems to be self medicating. Ironically, from what I understand that was an added scene on PBS and not shown in the original UK airing. Unfortunately that same scene increased my dislike for Edith as she once again gave not one whit or care about how the Drewe's felt about her actions. Edith has gone from an annoyance to probably my most disliked character on Downton. The idea that she somehow went from an inexperienced lady of the house to a columnist to now running the company(???) is unbelievable at best, and I hope that Julian Fellows simply comes up with another Robert line like "I just talked to Murray and the company is sold, Edith is off the hook" and then forget that story arc ever existed.

Watching Cora and Edith try to hatch a plan came off more like dumber and dumber imo, and is doomed to blow up. Makes Cora a hypocrite in my book, as she blasted the Dowager for not telling her that she has a grandchild, but now is apparently fine hiding that secret from Robert, in his own house!

There are really a lot of mediocre story arcs going on this season; continuance of Anna/Bates/Green, Mary and her suitors, Edith and child, Barrow and his issue of the day, I really hope they just wrap these up and move on fresh in Season 6.

BTW, that was a great dinner party, only made better if Ms Bunting somehow had been there.

SBETigg
02-17-2015, 02:56 PM
Still in disagreement on Edith. I can suspend some disbelief and buy into her running a publishing company, as much as I can believe that Mary is a sought-after beauty despite being an ice queen or that Robert was willing to take money from Matthew and let him co-manage the estate. And I can let go of the Drewes. I think even they realize they have served their purpose and it's time to move on. It is, after all, a soap opera style drama. I think we have to let some things go as far as the reality checks and complete accuracy. Though of course, you're free to dislike Edith. She remains one of my favorites and I prefer her to Mary by far.

MNNHFLTX
02-18-2015, 04:08 PM
I was underwhelmed by this episode. Edith going off with Marigold only to come back the next episode was anti-climactic. It would have been much more interesting if she had stayed in London as an independent woman (and yes, owner of a publishing company).

Really, the best part of the show was the bittersweet ending with Isis. That was a scene that I could definitely relate to as far as Cora and Robert's emotions.

magicofdisney
02-22-2015, 06:49 PM
I guess the thing that bothered me regarding this episode was Anna gossiping about seeing Mr. Drewe and the child on the train. She of all people should understand the consequences of gossiping. It seemed very out of character to me.

Melanie
02-23-2015, 10:29 AM
So is all that is left is the Christmas episode?

I'm very tempted to go looking for spoilers to see how things shake out with Anna. I'm over the Bates in eternal trouble storyline and although I never do spoilers, I'm ready to know on this.

AgentC
02-23-2015, 11:13 AM
So is all that is left is the Christmas episode?

I'm very tempted to go looking for spoilers to see how things shake out with Anna. I'm over the Bates in eternal trouble storyline and although I never do spoilers, I'm ready to know on this.

Yes, I think that is correct. Just one left. It's so funny you posted this. I was just trying to decide the same thing myself. :)

AgentC
02-23-2015, 11:13 AM
I guess the thing that bothered me regarding this episode was Anna gossiping about seeing Mr. Drewe and the child on the train. She of all people should understand the consequences of gossiping. It seemed very out of character to me.

Yes. I though that was a bit of a weird scene too.

The Hitchhiking Ghost
02-24-2015, 12:15 PM
Yes. I though that was a bit of a weird scene too.

I don't think so. If you look at the entire context. I think it was right after the fire, as Anna and Mrs. Hughes were straightening up Edith's room, Anna found the picture of Marigold under Edith's pillow.

Also, keep in mind, Mrs. Hughes was I believe the only staff person, other than Bates, to know about Anna's rape by Mr Greene, so that in and of itself, kind of secures a bond between the two.

Fast forward to the train station, it wasn't surprising that Anna started putting two and two together (even Robert did somehow :confused:). So for her to discuss it with Mrs. Hughes I didn't find to be gossip, just one more piece to the puzzle. Now if she had been saying it to Barrow or Mosesly or Daisy, then yes I could see it as out of character gossiping about Mr Drewe and Marigold. But as her confidant was Mrs. Hughes, it seemed natural.

What didn't seem natural was Robert figuring out Marigold's true parentage, not by recognizing her as a child of Edith but instead by recognizing the resemblance to Gregson, someone he only met a couple of times (as an adult). That and his casual acceptance of the fact of an illegitimate granddaughter seemed a bit unrealistic.

Best part of the episode was when the inspector arrested Anna and Mary shouts out "I AM LADY MARY CRAWLEY!!" and called for her release, to which the inspector from Scotland Yard replies "I don't care if you are the queen of the Upper Nile". That was a great line and an excellent scene overall. Its just too bad its taking 2+ seasons to get thru a story arc that nobody really cares about.

Barrow finally had a good turn, turning the tables on Denker, that was a nice little one-off, as is the continuing battle of the servants at Dowager house.

Its a strange show, in one sense most of the characters are still in the same position that they were two years ago; Anna/Bates still unresolved, Mary again back to no suitors, Edith still wallowing in self pity, Tom not sure if he is staying or going, Barrow being his nasty self etc. The show is just so well done its easy to look past the fact that it has started to evolve into a somewhat poor soap operaish feel and that the stories really haven't gone anywhere for quite some time.

TheDuckRocks
02-24-2015, 12:21 PM
I watched the after the show stuff for the first time and it was all about getting all the manner stuff period correct. It was great info. I didn't know they have been doing this, wondered why there was 5 minutes more on my recording after the episode was over. Duh - :blush:

SBETigg
02-24-2015, 12:32 PM
What didn't seem natural was Robert figuring out Marigold's true parentage, not by recognizing her as a child of Edith but instead by recognizing the resemblance to Gregson, someone he only met a couple of times (as an adult). That and his casual acceptance of the fact of an illegitimate granddaughter seemed a bit unrealistic.



I agree on this, and about Anna. I think Anna went to Mrs. Hughes out of concern/sharing information between them, and Mrs. Hughes pretty rightly shut her down (none of their business, even as much as they care about the family). In that sense, it was a tad out of character for Anna, but also completely understandable that she seems to think Mrs. Hughes knows all and she's offering maybe a heads up that if she could figure it out, someone else will (which is exactly like Anna, to try to stop a problem in the making out of her loyalty to the family).

Robert's reaction puzzled me, too. I expected him to say how much she resembled Edith as a child, and instead he comes up with the likeness to Gregson? That's not a natural leap considering he wasn't that close to Gregson and hadn't seen him in a long time. Also, the easy transition and acceptance. Robert's not usually that easy when it comes to such matters, especially as far as Cora having kept it from him.

The Hitchhiking Ghost
02-24-2015, 04:49 PM
Robert's reaction puzzled me, too. I expected him to say how much she resembled Edith as a child, and instead he comes up with the likeness to Gregson? That's not a natural leap considering he wasn't that close to Gregson and hadn't seen him in a long time. Also, the easy transition and acceptance. Robert's not usually that easy when it comes to such matters, especially as far as Cora having kept it from him.

Unless there is a Bunting in the room, "Old Donk" has been made into a softie this season.

Too many of the things Robert has done this season seem more appropriate to a man of this age rather than 1924. Being the ceremonial lieutenant of the regiment I'm not sure that Robert would be that quick to put up a plaque for Archie, Mrs. Pattmore's nephew. It made for nice teary tv, but I think Julian Fellows has progressed Robert a bit to quickily, imo.

In one episode alone, keeping in mind that it is 1924, Robert did the following; placed a war memorial plaque for a soldier shot for cowardice, approved of an interfaith Jewish marriage (nearly had a coniption when his own daughter not only married out of class, but catholic) and gracefully accepted that the had an illegitimate granddaughter.

Maybe a wee bit too much feel good here.

MNNHFLTX
02-24-2015, 11:01 PM
So is all that is left is the Christmas episode?

I'm very tempted to go looking for spoilers to see how things shake out with Anna. I'm over the Bates in eternal trouble storyline and although I never do spoilers, I'm ready to know on this.
I must confess that I've been talking spoilers with my friend from the UK (I know, no surprise there--you know I don't mind spoilers). I am also very tired of the way the Anna/Bates storyline has played out and just wanted to know what direction they were going.

I do find it interesting that they would feature an interfaith marriage for Rose--it does seem very unlikely for the times.

The Hitchhiking Ghost
02-25-2015, 09:54 AM
I must confess that I've been talking spoilers with my friend from the UK (I know, no surprise there--you know I don't mind spoilers). I am also very tired of the way the Anna/Bates storyline has played out and just wanted to know what direction they were going.

I do find it interesting that they would feature an interfaith marriage for Rose--it does seem very unlikely for the times.

Julian Fellows seems to use Rose as the radical one, especially with Sybil gone. Last season she was dating (not sure which would be seen as worse for the time) a musician who happened to be also a man of color. Rose was kind of the instrument to get us into the roaring 20's. Which, considering how her relationship ended up last season made it all the more odd that she was somehow tending Russian refugees this season. I never quite figured that one out.

magicofdisney
02-26-2015, 10:21 AM
Too many of the things Robert has done this season seem more appropriate to a man of this age rather than 1924. Being the ceremonial lieutenant of the regiment I'm not sure that Robert would be that quick to put up a plaque for Archie, Mrs. Pattmore's nephew. It made for nice teary tv, but I think Julian Fellows has progressed Robert a bit to quickily, imo.



The modernization of Robert is what's bugged me. After his blasé acceptance of Barrow, nothing surprises me. That being said, I do appreciate the relationship that could develop with his grandchildren. That's definitely not standard for that time, but the commitment to family is touching.

I've had the least problem with the Jewish storyline, probably because Cora's dad is Jewish. Honestly, I've never understood anti-semitism.

I recently discovered a show I streamed on Amazon called "Secrets of The Manor House." It's about a group of volunteers that agree to live in a manor house and pretend it's the turn of the century. You have a family that portrays the Lord and Lady and a group of servants living downstairs. I think most anyone on this thread would truly enjoy the show. It gave me slightly more insight into the protocols of that time.

MNNHFLTX
02-26-2015, 05:27 PM
I've had the least problem with the Jewish storyline, probably because Cora's dad is Jewish. Honestly, I've never understood anti-semitism.
I wasn't even thinking about anti-Semitism with my last post. Being part of an interfaith relationship myself (my husband being Jewish and me Lutheran), I can say that there is not always a lot of support from family/friends for marrying outside the faith, even in modern times. This was true even more so back in the early 1900's, I can imagine. This was evidenced by the reaction of Atticus' father to the impending marriage--the prejudice can exist on both sides. As far as Cora's father being Jewish, that might have been easy to chalk up to her American background, but that honestly doesn't ring true to me either, based on the times.

magicofdisney
02-26-2015, 10:31 PM
I wasn't even thinking about anti-Semitism with my last post. Being part of an interfaith relationship myself (my husband being Jewish and me Lutheran), I can say that there is not always a lot of support from family/friends for marrying outside the faith, even in modern times. This was true even more so back in the early 1900's, I can imagine. This was evidenced by the reaction of Atticus' father to the impending marriage--the prejudice can exist on both sides. As far as Cora's father being Jewish, that might have been easy to chalk up to her American background, but that honestly doesn't ring true to me either, based on the times.
I didn't mean to imply you were suggesting anti-semitism. I was referring to the reaction of some on the show, specifically, Rose's mother and those Russian royalties Rose was attending.

Are you saying it's difficult to believe that even Cora's parents would have had an interfaith marriage, based on the times? If so, I'm assuming they threw that in there to show just how "accepting" some of the Granthams could be.

The Hitchhiking Ghost
02-27-2015, 09:46 AM
I didn't mean to imply you were suggesting anti-semitism. I was referring to the reaction of some on the show, specifically, Rose's mother and those Russian royalties Rose was attending.

Are you saying it's difficult to believe that even Cora's parents would have had an interfaith marriage, based on the times? If so, I'm assuming they threw that in there to show just how "accepting" some of the Granthams could be.

Not that it matters, or maybe it did back then, but technically Cora would not be considered Jewish, as I believe that designation must follow the female line, and since Cora's mother was not Jewish, then neither would Cora or her brother, despite her father's status.

The Hitchhiking Ghost
02-27-2015, 09:50 AM
The modernization of Robert is what's bugged me. After his blasé acceptance of Barrow, nothing surprises me. That being said, I do appreciate the relationship that could develop with his grandchildren. That's definitely not standard for that time, but the commitment to family is touching.

I've had the least problem with the Jewish storyline, probably because Cora's dad is Jewish. Honestly, I've never understood anti-semitism.

I recently discovered a show I streamed on Amazon called "Secrets of The Manor House." It's about a group of volunteers that agree to live in a manor house and pretend it's the turn of the century. You have a family that portrays the Lord and Lady and a group of servants living downstairs. I think most anyone on this thread would truly enjoy the show. It gave me slightly more insight into the protocols of that time.

Did you happen to see the 1 hour special that ran on Masterpiece called "The Manners of Downton Abbey?"

Very interesting special, hosted by the shows technically historical advisor, or "The Oracle" as he's referred to on the show, Alistair Bruce.

It was very well done, hosted by Bruce, included many cast interviews and explained a lot of things, especially around the dinner table (like the protocol that nobody ate until the hostess would eat, or even that the hostess directed the conversation).

If you haven't seen it, try find it, definitely worth your time.

magicofdisney
02-27-2015, 10:12 AM
Not that it matters, or maybe it did back then, but technically Cora would not be considered Jewish, as I believe that designation must follow the female line, and since Cora's mother was not Jewish, then neither would Cora or her brother, despite her father's status.

Biblically it did follow the father's lineage, but you are correct in that currently (and I don't know when things changed) it now follows the mother's line. So I realize Cora was not considered Jewish, however she still has that heritage.


Did you happen to see the 1 hour special that ran on Masterpiece called "The Manners of Downton Abbey?"

Very interesting special, hosted by the shows technically historical advisor, or "The Oracle" as he's referred to on the show, Alistair Bruce.

It was very well done, hosted by Bruce, included many cast interviews and explained a lot of things, especially around the dinner table (like the protocol that nobody ate until the hostess would eat, or even that the hostess directed the conversation).

If you haven't seen it, try find it, definitely worth your time.

My DVR happened to catch the first 5min of this when it originally aired. I will look it up now because the time period fascinates me. Thank you for the title. :)

Melanie
03-02-2015, 12:05 PM
Oh, the finale! I cried more than I want to admit. I didn't really care for how they went about Anna being released, etc., but that's my least favorite storyline right now anyway.

Tom leaving....it just breaks my heart. With supposedly only one more season left, I can see how they could work he and Sybbie in to some episodes. Tom said many times last night that they'd be back.

I grew to actually kind of like Rose and look forward now to seeing that actress in Cinderella.

Matthew Goode as Mary's new love interest - BRING IT ON! I love him.

Carson and Mrs. Hughes....so stinking sweet. Loved how they worked up to that proposal.

As usual, it all went way too fast again this year. Looking forward to Mr. Selfridge and Call the Midwife though.

AgentC
03-02-2015, 12:07 PM
Carson and Mrs. Hughes....so stinking sweet. Loved how they worked up to that proposal.



This made the whole season for me. :cloud9:

MNNHFLTX
03-02-2015, 12:34 PM
This made the whole season for me. :cloud9:
Me too. So funny, the way they developed the storyline for these two over the years, and when the proposal finally came, Mrs. Hughes response was priceless. The best couple on the show, by far.

Melanie
03-02-2015, 01:52 PM
Oh, and the tidbits from the Dowager's past. Scandalous! ha! I'm glad she turned him down and also glad that Mrs. Crawley turned down Lord Merton. I want her with Dr. Clarkson. Loved the Dowager's quip about that. LOL!!! They (Isobel and Violet) are gold together.

The Hitchhiking Ghost
03-03-2015, 10:35 AM
Tom leaving....it just breaks my heart. With supposedly only one more season left, I can see how they could work he and Sybbie in to some episodes. Tom said many times last night that they'd be back.



Wait, Tom is leaving Downton:confused:

I guess that makes sense, as every episode his only lines, repeated 5 or more times were, "I'm leaving Downton, I must remember this, I will miss you."

I mean, move out already! Probably the biggest waste of a good character this season. I don't know what happened with JF and his writing of this character, but he really pretty much forgot him and just had him uttering "I'm leaving" over and over and over. I don't look for spoilers, but I've heard rumors that Branson may be returning to Downton in S6, although when and under what pretext I don't know (if it even happens, but I think Allen Leech may have tipped it.)

I enjoyed the Christmas Special as its called. I just really hope that they have for once and for all ended the ridiculous Anna/Bates Green murder plot. I'm totally convince that JF had no idea where he wanted this story to go, so just concocted this ridiculous and lame ending to it, with Bates confessing guilt, Anna relesased, Mosesly and Baxter somehow finding proof that Bates didn't do it, then the witness conveniently not being so sure it was Anna afterall. My god, please end it.

My favorite line, and probably my favorite Robert line was when he revealed his ulcer to Cora and Mary and they start putting his life in order for him, against his will, until they say no alcohol and Robert in his aristocratic manner's response "Steady On". I don't know if the ulcer was just a mechanism to have Robert get lit up at Christmas or if its a harbinger of things to come. I thought it was going to play out more seriously when they were shooting and it didn't, but I can see this series ending with Robert's death and I wonder if this could be the set up for it.

Again, not sure that Robert being so accepting of Edith's situation is believable, but it played out nice, and maybe now we can move on from Eoyore Edith and basically everyone but Mary seems to know that Marigold is hers.

I didn't really get the whole Russian prince/princess story arc. It seemed to go a long long way for very little pay off. Kind of a two-fer, here, we'll introduce the Russians, and that will keep Rose busy and then we can get her married off quickly because by then end of the season she will turn into Cinderella and won't be around long. I didn't mind Violet's historical story, but again, along way to go, just to get it. I did read a short news story that Maggie Smith said she can't see herself doing Downton past season 6, but who knows.

Carson and Mrs Hughes was great, and was a good payoff for the end of the season.

Mary, obvioulsly a new love interest in the works, but hopefully it will be better than her wasted time this season. Probably the 2nd worst written story arc next to Branson's as far as not going anywhere.

Anyhow, 9 months until S6.

magicofdisney
03-09-2015, 02:26 PM
My absolute favorite pairing is Violet and Isobel. I'm glad to see the team won't be breaking up...for now.

I think it's poetic justice that Mary is the only one that doesn't know about Marigold. On a side note I'm re-watching, with a family member, Downton from the beginning because this person came in on S4. I had forgotten what a snot Edith was to Mary back then. It makes me wonder if she was that way because of Mary or the other way around. What I can say is that Edith has matured over the seasons. As for Mary currently, I don't really care what happens with her one way or the other.

I love, love, love Carson and Hughes. I'm so happy for that union. Do you think they'll share housing at Downton or live in something nearby? Maybe the cottage he bought?

I agree, Ghost, with your assessment of Branson. What a waste of a story line this season. He's been whining those statements for almost 2 years now. Bunting was an interesting distraction, but I'm so glad she's out.

I didn't want to admit it but Rose has grown on me a little. It was interesting seeing her come to the rescue of her father-in-law.

Is it possible the Russian storyline will come back for a finale? Is it possible he's Robert's father? Otherwise, it almost seems pointless, unless it was simply to show us the Dowager has the capability to sympathize with modern temptations (i.e. Mary's tryst with Gillingham and Edith with Marigold.)

It may take a couple of months to get through seasons 1-3. By then I'll have even less time to wait for the new Downton. :)