New Direction?

[Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Da Disney]

Do you thing that the theme parks are heading in the wrong direction or do you think the changes the parks are making are for the better? I am a very nostalgic person and I like that some things are changing but I've felt that the parks are changing for the worse. The things that have really bothered me are things like Avatar Land and getting rid of classic attractions like Maelstrom and Snow White's Scary Adventures and putting in the Hallowed Princess Meet and Greets and a Frozen attraction. I don't know it just seems as if the they aren't remembering some of their older audiences. :figment: :dumbo:
:donald:

[yankeesfan123]

Do you thing that the theme parks are heading in the wrong direction or do you think the changes the parks are making are for the better? I am a very nostalgic person and I like that some things are changing but I've felt that the parks are changing for the worse. The things that have really bothered me are things like Avatar Land and getting rid of classic attractions like Maelstrom and Snow White's Scary Adventures and putting in the Hallowed Princess Meet and Greets and a Frozen attraction. I don't know it just seems as if the they aren't remembering some of their older audiences. :figment: :dumbo:
:donald:


In my opinion, some of their past changes have been much more dire than the two you mentioned (Toad and Horizons for an example).

[MississippiDisneyFreak]

A little of both for me....I do agree the parks need new attractions to keep it fresh for people that go frequently, but sometimes I think the changes are for the worse not better. I'm not happy about Maelstrom and skeptical of Avatar land but maybe we will be happily surprised.

[1DisneyNut]

I think they are headed in the wrong direction. Doing cheap quick makeovers of classic nostalgic rides is a huge mistake in my opinion. For us, the draw has been the nostalgia just as much as new experiences. You talk about these great attractions with your kids and how you remember them when you were their age, look forward to seeing them again and sharing them with your kids and then boom.......maelstrom becomes frozen, snow white is gone, who is mr. toad and where was that?

They are wiping out all the memories that kept us coming back again and again. You can't say they are building new ones for the next generation to feel nostalgic about because the way they do things now, they will just overlay the next big movie right over the same rides a few years down the road.

In my opinion, if they have to have a ride for a big movie, build a new one or put some of the vacant buildings where rides/attractions were closed years ago. It will increase capacity, disperse the crowds and keep both the nostalgia while introducing the new. If the ride is a flop like say nemo, redo it instead of redoing an attraction that is actually popular.

[DizneyFreak2002]

I don't know if I would call it a new direction, but rather a new phase in the evolution of the Disney theme parks... Although, I guess, maybe they could be one and the same, depending how you look at things...

The new phase, hasn't started off on the right foot... FP+ is a mess, having to book every minute of your vacation (remember Disney, what a vacation is supposed to be????) is just stupid... They have push technology advancement out the window and instead they do safe, no longer pushing the boundries like they once did...

I'll hold off on calling this phase a failure just yet... FP+ yes, its a failure... The booking of every minute of your trip is a failure... New Fantasyland, while nice looking, lacks major substance... Is this a sign of things to come? No idea... Avatarland sounds promising... Toy Story Playland sounds lazy, cheap, and well honestly, expected with this current management... And there really aren't any concrete ideas out there about what Star Wars will include... If what has been discussed prior comes true (and its doubtful those plans will remain the same as things change hourly in this business), then Star Wars expansion would be a flop too...

I remain hopeful cause, Disney can't be that pathetic to screw up the number one IP in history, are they? Well, maybe... I'll hope for the best, expect the worst... Have to with Disney today... Expect nothing and lower your expectations and Disney will never disappoint... High standards? Not with this Disney company today... For WDW anyway...

Now, what was that about a cheap make over of Maelstrom to Frozen while Toyko DisneySea is scheluded to receive a $400 million to $450 million dollar LAND dedicated to Frozen???? Want to tel me again how making Maelstron into Frozen is common sense and is the perfect choice to represent the number one animated movie of all time in the most visited theme park in the world?

[KAJUNKING]

Hard to judge yet, we havent seen what avatar land or the re do of the Maelstrom ride will be yet. Maelstrom was a mediocre ride in the first place, and ive seen pictures from behind the walls. They are not just puttin a Frozen overlay on the old ride, they are completely changing it. So lets see what it is before we start complaining about it. :mickey:

[Gator]

Now, what was that about a cheap make over of Maelstrom to Frozen while Toyko DisneySea is scheluded to receive a $400 million to $450 million dollar LAND dedicated to Frozen???? Want to tel me again how making Maelstron into Frozen is common sense and is the perfect choice to represent the number one animated movie of all time in the most visited theme park in the world?

This is what I've been thinking, too. I like Frozen and my kids love it. #1 animation of all time. And they gut one ride to put in another ride with a Frozen theme? While I'm very happy that a Frozen ride is coming to WDW (not sure when I'll ever visit again), it seems strange that they put it in World Showcase. DHS could use a boost and adding a Frozen section would do wonders. Same for MK. Imagine a new Fantasyland with attractions dedicated to Snow White, Ariel, Belle, and a big chunk dedicated to Frozen. That would be awesome.

[Eric87]

This is what I've been thinking, too. I like Frozen and my kids love it. #1 animation of all time. And they gut one ride to put in another ride with a Frozen theme? While I'm very happy that a Frozen ride is coming to WDW (not sure when I'll ever visit again), it seems strange that they put it in World Showcase. DHS could use a boost and adding a Frozen section would do wonders. Same for MK. Imagine a new Fantasyland with attractions dedicated to Snow White, Ariel, Belle, and a big chunk dedicated to Frozen. That would be awesome.

I agree with this thought as well. Never saw Maelstrom with more than a 15 min. wait. Now it gets replaced by a Frozen attraction and its a storied ride. Come on that ride was brutal and Norway never funded that ride anyway. New memories will be created with new classic attractions of the new generation. There are still the untouchable rides in the parks. They will be updated but I think they will be around forever. I'm not saying evertything they are doing currently will become classic. However, I'm sure there were a lot of hit and misses when you were younger. This regime does seem to be more about film and product dollars with the parks an afterthought though. Maybe when Iger leaves the next group that comes in will address your concerns.

[Kenny1113]

I agree and I think the changes to the Christmas Day parade are proof of this as well. It was like watching one long disney commercial with very little enjoyable parade moments. Not to mention it was entirely dedicated to frozen, so disney doesn't seem to care if they are alienating their male audience. As a mom of two boys it's looking like a wdw vacation is less and less likely to continue in our future. (I'm glad we decided against DVC a couple of years ago), but maybe with my boys getting bigger that's just natural that it would happen anyway. In the meantime we will enjoy our Disney cruises until my boys balk at that. :mickey:

[1DisneyNut]

I agree and I think the changes to the Christmas Day parade are proof of this as well. It was like watching one long disney commercial with very little enjoyable parade moments. Not to mention it was entirely dedicated to frozen, so disney doesn't seem to care if they are alienating their male audience.

I thought about starting a thread on the "parade" if we can still call it that. I think "infomercial" would be more appropriate. It was horrible. They showed very little of the parade and instead showed commercials for the parks and a ton for Aulani with someone singing a song in between them. Most of the acts were terrible. My 13 year old daughter that loves frozen, even said that was the worst Christmas day parade show ever. If I hear that song from Frozen one more time in the near future, I may snap. I am so sick of hearing it, I may not even go to WDW this year just to avoid it.


As a mom of two boys it's looking like a wdw vacation is less and less likely to continue in our future. (I'm glad we decided against DVC a couple of years ago), but maybe with my boys getting bigger that's just natural that it would happen anyway. In the meantime we will enjoy our Disney cruises until my boys balk at that. :mickey:

We feel the same on DVC. We almost bought in 2006, and I can't tell you how many times we have said we are glad we didn't. We all still enjoy WDW but our trips have gotten a lot fewer and farther between.

[thejens]

Well, I am undecided, but both of my boys want to go to Universal. My 10 year old is very excited about the new Harry Potter land and my 16 year old likes the thrill rides. I am usually the WDW fan, but I am feeling daunted about the new book your whole day in advance fast passes.

Just watched the WDW special from the archives and wishing for old times. Having a Star Bucks on Main Street tells me those days are gone. Think Walt would be sad.

[Disneylovescompany]

Trial and error. People dislike change. Its pretty simple. But once change has happened, they adapt, and may complain a bit, but, eventually that becomes the norm. While I understand the end game concept they are seeking by doing the FP+, rather than complain about it, I decided to analyze and use it to my advantage. I am a planner, so its natural and doesnt bother me in the least. I have been several times since the new implementation and not once have I "missed" anything. Its just a matter of understanding how to maximize the new system and use it to your advantage.
As far as new attractions. Disney is ever changing. I heard this when Mr toad was replaced by Pooh. Horizons shut down. Wonders of Life shut down. Jeremy irons replaced on Spaceship Earth, Alien Encounter replaced by the awful Stitch encounter. It is what it is. Parks constantly change to try and stay fresh and of course, take advantage of todays trend. Keep in mind, no Disney movie really had the impact that Frozen did since back in the run of hits Mermaid- Hunchback/Mulan..So why not play to it. They did the same thing after Lion King came out. Same thing after Mermaid..Its natural progression. Enjoy it.

[joonyer]

As long as the parks are packed, hotels are filled, and guests keep spending big money at WDW, Disney has no reason to care that some of us oldsters feel like the parks are losing some of their nostalgia. Like it or not, that's the bottom line.
People vote with their wallets, and Disney is still winning the theme park vacation election by a landslide.

[Snow's Mom]

I teach elementary music. Most of my students, kindergarten through 5th grade know ALL of the words to the songs from "Frozen". A lot of the boys included. I didn't teach them to them---this is all from watching the video over and over...one mom even purchased a second DVD for the car.

So, of course, Disney is going to cash in on that.

[WiltonJohn]

It is just possible that down the road "Frozen" will be to the young kids of today what Cinderella and Mickey and Minne are to those of us "of a certain age" :secret:. They will grow up over the years with those rides/attractions, and look back with nostalgia on the good ole' days as Disney then makes changes to THOSE attractions to deal with the new up and coming trends in society in their own young kids day.

Yeah, I HATE the demise of the Trolls going to Frozen. (Hey... the Trolls have been Frozen!) Our family loved that simple ride. But as has been mentioned...... maybe not so many people did like it anymore.

You know what, time moves on. Fond memories. Disney can't remain.... ahem....... wait for it........ FROZEN.

We all have to remember that Disney World is first and foremost A BUSINESS designed to make a PROFIT. (I have some of their stock... it is skyrocketing.) Yes, they get to that profit margin by offering goods and services to the populace.... so guess what....... Frozen was a HUGE money-making hit.

Disney is very good at extracting the Dollar bills from your wallet... and (generally) making you happy about them doing that. It is a precarious balance they tread....... keeping you happy about that..... but also working to service the bottom line. Not an easy job........ particularly with all the "armchair quarterbacking" that happens.

To me, Avatarland is a no-brainer for AK. I'm a visual artist. They need nighttime stuff with some sort of environmental / animal connection; Pandora at night is ready made for the Disney visual treatment. It should be visually spectacular....even it you are not a fan of the movie or have never even HEARD of the movie. I can't wait to see what they do with it.

Star Wars has such a penetration into contemporary American culture that it will work (economically) pretty much no matter what they do with it.

So yeah... the parks are changing. Disney execs are trying to "strike a balance" between conflicting cohorts of population....... some older some younger. Not an easy job.

best,

.....................john

[manutd1]

Been to WDW/DLR At least 25 times..combining the two...
IMHO, They are going in the RIGHT direction.
Theming is great..parks are clean and in great shape.
I love the recent refurbs/improvements....my daughter can't wait for Frozen at the Norway pav.
The new mine ride is superb. I have no complaints about WDW/DLR. Like I said...I think both the direction and the current state of the parks is as good as ever. We have nothing but great times and great memories. I suppose it is easy for folks to complain or see the negative..but life is too short for that. I just don't see the negatives.
We love Disney and all the magic!! Going back in May!! POP Century!! And, yes..I find F.P.+ easy to use as well. Cant understand all the confusion...it is pretty straight forward.:thumbsup:
All is well!!
Note.....I do miss Toad, But thats what D.L. is for. They both have unique attractions.

[Daisy'sMom]

I remember when MK opened and what Disney was like compared to now. With all the changes, I'm beginning to think Disney doesn't want to bother with the concept of how it all started. Just a Daddy and his two girls wanting a place to go.

[AndrewJackson]

Now that the FP+ and MM+ buildup and rollout are complete, I have this sense that we are about to see some major construction at the theme parks.

We know about Avatarland, as well as the night time entertainment, which tells me there will be enough to make AK to be a full day park.

There are also several rumors about HS - Pixarland, Carsland, Star Wars Land, etc.

Flamingo Crossing is starting to add rooms on property.

On a separate thought - I actually like FP+, and think it is a great success. My family and I have been able to use it on two vacations now. Because of the ability to book our FPs in advance, these past two vacations have been the most enjoyable at WDW for quite some time. W

[manutd1]

Now that the FP+ and MM+ buildup and rollout are complete, I have this sense that we are about to see some major construction at the theme parks.

We know about Avatarland, as well as the night time entertainment, which tells me there will be enough to make AK to be a full day park.

There are also several rumors about HS - Pixarland, Carsland, Star Wars Land, etc.

Flamingo Crossing is starting to add rooms on property.

On a separate thought - I actually like FP+, and think it is a great success. My family and I have been able to use it on two vacations now. Because of the ability to book our FPs in advance, these past two vacations have been the most enjoyable at WDW for quite some time. W
I thought the same thing about FP+. It really has made the trip MORE enjoyable. :thumbsup: Simply cannot understand how some folks can't figure it out though...:confused: I don't think something could be more easy to use and a Disney vacation has never been as easy to plan.

[crazygoalie39]

I thought the same thing about FP+. It really has made the trip MORE enjoyable. :thumbsup: Simply cannot understand how some folks can't figure it out though...:confused: I don't think something could be more easy to use and a Disney vacation has never been as easy to plan.

I don't think the problem is understanding it, at least not for most. The problem is having to plan the exact hour you want to do attractions 2 months before you go. I'm a big planner, so it's not a huge deal for us, but knowing the exact hour is pretty ridiculous. The convenience of not having to run around the parks getting fastpasses is great, but I hate that you have to ride within that specified hour, rather than anytime after your window opened like it used to be. The tiers are also a negative.

[TheVBs]

I expect to see changes in the parks. If nothing changed, we would go a lot less often (it's once every 2 years now, with other trips in between). Yeah, I get a little sad when something we like closes. And, adapting to some of the changes can be bumpy. But, our last trip was full on FP+, New Fantasyland, MM, and it was, once again, an awesome trip full of wonderful memories.

I was dubious about FP+ and it was a little stressful doing it the first time, but it worked out for us. We actually rode TSM for the first time thanks to FP+. Now I have to admit, if Pirates, Haunted Mansion, Splash Mtn, BTMRR or Small World were closing, I think I would actually cry.

There's no way any of us can say what kids today will look back on with nostalgia. That's a very personal thing. And, with Frozen being such a huge hit, there are so many kids who are going to remember meeting Anna & Elsa and going on the ride.

[azcavalier]

I expect to see changes in the parks. If nothing changed, we would go a lot less often (it's once every 2 years now, with other trips in between). Yeah, I get a little sad when something we like closes. And, adapting to some of the changes can be bumpy.

I think that most people expect change, it's just that those who feel the parks are going in the wrong direction think that the changes are the wrong changes. And we have some pretty pessimistic people on these boards.

I don't think that you can take a look at all of the changes together and say that it's going in a right or wrong direction. I love some of the changes, are OK with others, and think that they've totally blown a few others.

I like New Fantasyland and what it brings to the park. I like the new Mine Cart ride, and don't miss the classic Snow White one bit.

I am OK with Maelstrom (which I liked) being replaced with Frozen. Maelstrom was weird, to be sure. It certainly didn't make me want to visit Norway. However, the cute cast members from Norway did....

I thought that removing Off Kilter and replacing it with the Lumberjack Show was awful.

I am hopeful that Avatarland, and whatever they add to DHS will be well done.

[TheVBs]

I don't think that you can take a look at all of the changes together and say that it's going in a right or wrong direction. I love some of the changes, are OK with others, and think that they've totally blown a few others.


I think that's an excellent way to put it! Throw in that there are lots of different opinions on what's a good change and what's a bad change, which makes it even harder to define.

[dudeman1975]

I am a long time visitor since 1979 and I am used to the days of just relaxing and putting your phone away in the Theme Park and being away from the real world which is what the Magic Kingdom used to be about. I have phones and planning all the time at work and I want to be away from my phone and mobile apps.

Secondly on our last trip we did a room only reservation and everytime we entered the park the bands would cause Mickey to swirl and never turn green. We must have had a colection of over 50 gray bands and three hours until the problem was finally fixed.

Thirdly, there is nothing for me to get excited about I remember reading magazines and thinking how cool a Splash Mountain sounds with a ride of length and substance and how exciting the Twilight one was going to be. I am looking at Avatarland and the new Fantasyland and reading about their rides and I am not getting really excited about it. It seems like the same ride technology such as a Kooka Arm and Soaring Ideas that have been used in the past and by other theme parks hopefully I am wrong. The Fastpass Plus to me forces lines on rides which previously never had them before. Spaceship Earth one day had a lione longer then Test Track.

Fourthly the food has gotten much less in variety since the dining plan and also I wonder how many people do not leave a tip as the meal is allready paid for.

I therefore see a cheapining of the brand, even though I was just there in February and still had an excellent time though I enjoyed riding the classic attraction which to me are repeat ride attractions even in the same trip, whereas some of the new rides you ride once a trip and that is enough.

[Ian]

The substance of the question, I think, is a subject on which my feelings are well documented. Like on every single podcast we've ever recorded lol

But at the end of the day, here's the deal. WDW is constantly jam packed. They're raking money in hand over fist. They have a clear business plan that does not involve catering to repeat guests. They want the once-in-a-lifetime guests that are going to spare no expense.

Those of us that try to go two or three times a year and know how to exploit all the loopholes to keep costs down are not folks in which they're particularly interested. You can tell just from looking at all the little pricing adjustments they've made recently. Think that massive increase in the price of AP's was a coincidence? Nope.

Is this good? Bad? I don't know. Only time will tell. I have my thoughts, but I'm not sitting in their boardrooms privy to all their long term plans so what do I know? Ten years from now we'll know. What I do know is this ... by and large when my family goes we still have a great time. Is it perfect? No. Are there things I really wish would change? Yes. But it's still the best family time going in my opinion. The kids love it and we love watching the kids love it. :mickey:

[PopPhan]

The substance of the question, I think, is a subject on which my feelings are well documented. Like on every single podcast we've ever recorded lol

But at the end of the day, here's the deal. WDW is constantly jam packed. They're raking money in hand over fist. They have a clear business plan that does not involve catering to repeat guests. They want the once-in-a-lifetime guests that are going to spare no expense.

Those of us that try to go two or three times a year and know how to exploit all the loopholes to keep costs down are not folks in which they're particularly interested. You can tell just from looking at all the little pricing adjustments they've made recently. Think that massive increase in the price of AP's was a coincidence? Nope.

Is this good? Bad? I don't know. Only time will tell. I have my thoughts, but I'm not sitting in their boardrooms privy to all their long term plans so what do I know? Ten years from now we'll know. What I do know is this ... by and large when my family goes we still have a great time. Is it perfect? No. Are there things I really wish would change? Yes. But it's still the best family time going in my opinion. The kids love it and we love watching the kids love it. :mickey:

Excellent way of putting it, Ian.

In the scheme of things it all comes down to, in financial terms, your own personal ROI.