Stand-by Fasspass tests????

[Roger's #1 Fan]

I'm seeing information from some other sites about a trial for a paper standby fastpass for some attractions at WDW. At the Frozen M&G at MK as well as the Frozen Sing-Along at DHS, they are giving out paper passes with return times to get into the standby line. The thought is that this will allow people to do other things (read - spend $$) rather than wait 2-3 hours in line. There is also talk of trialing this at Soarin' next week.

Does this make sense? For short term issues like the Frozen phenomenon I think it works but for capacity issues with an attraction like Soarin' this is more of a band-aid than a real solution.

What happens then, when they run out of standby passes at 4pm? Are you then out of luck for the rest of the day to see an attraction?

[MizMissy]

I'm seeing information from some other sites about a trial for a paper standby fastpass for some attractions at WDW. At the Frozen M&G at MK as well as the Frozen Sing-Along at DHS, they are giving out paper passes with return times to get into the standby line.

Return time for a "standby" line? Or into the fastpass line? Or, does this mean there is no "standby" line unless you have a paper fastpass?

[Roger's #1 Fan]

These are return passes to get into the Stand-by line, so I would assume then, that you cannot get into the standy-by line without one.

The words behind it are that you will wait no longer than about 30 mins. once you get into the stand-by line which makes me think they are controlling/restricting entry into the standby line.

[MizMissy]

These are return passes to get into the Stand-by line, so I would assume then, that you cannot get into the standy-by line without one.

The words behind it are that you will wait no longer than about 30 mins. once you get into the stand-by line which makes me think they are controlling/restricting entry into the standby line.

Ok. Thanks. It's just a little strange that you can't wait in line even if you wanted to do so (thinking about the situation of what happens when fastpasses are gone a 4pm type of situation).

[VWL Mom]

From what I'm reading the return will be to the standby line. They are going to close the standby lines when they are full and direct you to MK support. You will get a standby line pass there for first come first serve to enter the line at a certain time (30 minute window). They will be restricting the number of standby tickets issued per hour. Bottom line is you will still have to wait but they are trying to do away with ridiculous times at attractions like A&E.

[Roger's #1 Fan]

from Theme Park University

[DizneyFreak2002]

So let's recap...

Disney started FP with paper fastpasses for guests to return at a later time during the day... Then they change FP to FP+, and eliminate the paper fastpasses... They add FP+ to rides which don't need FP thus increasing wait times... Also you can book 60 days out, not have to run to an attraction to get a paper FP, and so you could spend less time in lines (hasn't worked, guests are, on the average spending more time in lines)... only to now to create a situation where guests have to run to an attraction to obtain a paper fastpass to so you now don't have to wait on the stand by line and return when yourn new paper fastpass tells you to so you can wait in standby..

WDW is the most relaxing, most magical vacation EVER...

[DizneyRox]

Fastpass for Standby! Now I've seen everything!

WOW!

We're not far off from a fastpass for the restrooms folks!

[Roger's #1 Fan]

When I first read about it, I almost though it was a joke. They spent how much to put a system in place to get people to plan ahead only to have to revert back to the same old system when they are unable to deal with demand. It borders on the definition of insanity.

[DizneyFreak2002]

When I first read about it, I almost though it was a joke. They spent how much to put a system in place to get people to plan ahead only to have to revert back to the same old system when they are unable to deal with demand. It borders on the definition of insanity.

TDO are the most brilliant people ever... Iger is the best CEO ever... Staggs is a genius... Rasulo knows what he is doing...

SAID NO ONE EVER....

[DizneyRox]

When I first read about it, I almost though it was a joke. They spent how much to put a system in place to get people to plan ahead only to have to revert back to the same old system when they are unable to deal with demand. It borders on the definition of stupidity.
Fixed it for you...

[Fangorn]

So I'm guessing the next level of "innovation" is being able to get a FP+ so you can schedule a time to get a paper fastpass so you can go get in the standby line, because all the attraction's FP+'s were gone a month ago.

Next up, getting a FP to get a FP to get a FP to get a FP....

Steve

[dnickels]

It's certainly in line with their goal of keeping people out of lines where there's no opportunity for impulse purchases and in other areas where they will constantly be passing gift shops or food carts or kiosks, though as Freak mentioned, I'm not sure that has actually been the result.

I'm really surprised they haven't started putting shops/carts/kiosks IN the line itself.

[DonaldDuck1117]

Except Disney stock keeps going up, up, up. So they must be doing something right.

I have a hard time believing you can't get in line with out one of these tickets. I think you can, the wait will just be horrible.

[Roger's #1 Fan]

I have a hard time believing you can't get in line with out one of these tickets. I think you can, the wait will just be horrible.

Logistically that would be a nightmare. They would need 3 separate lines (FP+, standby pass, regular standby) and then have to choose how to pull from each. I am confident you cannot get into line if they are handing out these return cards, which I agree is unbelievable)

[DizneyRox]

Except Disney stock keeps going up, up, up. So they must be doing something right.

I have a hard time believing you can't get in line with out one of these tickets. I think you can, the wait will just be horrible.
Stock price is going up because revenue is greater than expenses.

Raise prices and cut back spending and wall street is happy. WDW is doing both of those. Customer satisfaction is not figured into stock price.

[ibelieveindisneymagic]

From what I've read this is a test that will only last a few days, and yes, it means that generally you won't be allowed into the stand-by line without a "return ticket". The exceptions have been first thing in the AM (until the return line is full) and there was a report of the stand-by line re-opening quite late in the evening.

I think Disney was caught by surprise with the length of the Frozen lines, and the lack of natural "die-down". I can only image the feedback they were getting over the crazy long waits, and they felt they had to do *something*. Really though, it isn't worse than having people wait 5 hours to see Anna & Elsa.

At some point though, Disney is going to realize that they just need more attractions to deal with the attendance numbers. You can only manage the lines so much.

[ransam]

I really have no idea why some on here post, when all you write is negative, and you know who you are. I LOVE Disney, and I come here because of that, why you post so often I have no idea, except maybe you work for Universal, but other than that, no idea.

Disney is trying to make your waits in line shorter, and you're complaining about that? Will it work? Maybe, maybe not, but if they didn't you would just whine about the long waits.

And you should do some research and look up and find the facts to what this really is. It's actually a very good idea.

[Goofy4TheWorld]

If this is used for anything other than Frozen, then I see this as a simple money-grab by Disney. They want to cut the Standby line off early enough to have cleared the que by the time park closing occurs, instead of paying CMs more to serve the "90 minutes" worth of people who got into line at Soarin' prior to 8:59PM.

[kakn7294]

They are return passes for the standby line. They were using them for the Captain Jack Sparrow experience in DHS at the end of June. You cannot get in the standby line without getting a paper pass. I don't like it. It's much like the old fastpass system where you had to run all over the park to get passes only with this system, once the passes are gone, there is no way to experience the attraction as the lines are now full.

[KAJUNKING]

TDO are the most brilliant people ever... Iger is the best CEO ever... Staggs is a genius... Rasulo knows what he is doing...

SAID NO ONE EVER....

Except stockholders :mickey:

[KAJUNKING]

They are return passes for the standby line. They were using them for the Captain Jack Sparrow experience in DHS at the end of June. You cannot get in the standby line without getting a paper pass. I don't like it. It's much like the old fastpass system where you had to run all over the park to get passes only with this system, once the passes are gone, there is no way to experience the attraction as the lines are now full.

Im sure a lot of people dont like it, but with 4 HOUR waits all day long they have to try something different.

[conan617]

I could be wrong, but I thought Universal was doing this same thing with the opening of Diagon Alley. These are different parks and circumstances, but is the Universal experiment working or failing? I have no idea, just looking for insight.

Maybe this is temporary (and/or for attractions where the standby line would have to be cut off hours before closing) and we are all getting nervous for nothing. Or this could be the new methodology and in that case - flame on :thedolls:.

[DonaldDuck1117]

You can complain about the state of the resort all you want, but, to say the Iger is a bad CEO because of that is short sighted and flat out wrong. The main job of a CEO is to make the business money, and Disney stock has never been higher and the company has never made so much money. A lot of that is due to the company acquiring other business-see Pixar and Marvel. You may not agree with the business world but Iger has expanded the company and made it even more of a giant than it already was.

Back to the return tickets-I think it's ridiculous. I have this nightmare future scenario where you won't be able to queue up for any ride on the future and you just walk the park aimlessly until you are allowed to enter the line.

[DizneyFreak2002]

Except stockholders :mickey:
Not all of them... ;)

[joonyer]

It's certainly in line with their goal of keeping people out of lines where there's no opportunity for impulse purchases and in other areas where they will constantly be passing gift shops or food carts or kiosks, though as Freak mentioned, I'm not sure that has actually been the result.

I'm really surprised they haven't started putting shops/carts/kiosks IN the line itself.

I fully expect to see just this in a year or two. Imagine all the revenue they are missing that could be realized from selling Anna & Elsa merchandise to guests/families while they are waiting in a 2-3 (or more) queue. Not to mention food and beverages.

Next up: for a "small" fee, you can buy a pass to be able leave the line to go to the restroom without losing your place in the queue. ;):D
The revenue possibilities are almost endless.

[kakn7294]

My problem with it is that if you were unable to obtain a FP+ time (not everyone understands this system or realizes that they can and need to obtain a FP), then you still had the chance to get into a standby line whether that's a 30 min line or a 5 hr line - it was your choice. With this new system, once the paper passes are gone, you have NO chance unless someone gives you their passes. This gives those that arrive late to the park for any variety of reasons (late arrival, breakfast, split park days) virtually NO shot of seeing the princesses. For some people, this may be their one and only chance.

[indytraveler]

So if I were going to Epcot in a couple of weeks I could have this thrown on me without any notice? Great.

First timers could show up to get in line for this attraction later in the day, only to find out they can't wait in line but rather you need to get a pass to come back and wait in this line. So they ask, "Where do I get this pass?" CM responds, "over there but we don't have anymore to give out because we reached our limit." But you could go over there and spend more money on food and souvenirs.

I could see where this was headed when they first let word out about this exciting new change to FP's. Either stay on property or don't come. I'm sorry ransam if this is really negative, but I'm disappointed they keep trying to fix something imo that wasn't broken.

Welcome to the Happiest Place on Earth

[mrte62]

At some point though, Disney is going to realize that they just need more attractions to deal with the attendance numbers. You can only manage the lines so much.

Exactly!

Instead of treating the symptoms, it is time to start treating the cause ....

[Roger's #1 Fan]

Agreed. As I alluded to in my original post, they need to do something related to the attraction to fix it, not just create more artifical restrictions to its use.

I am more concerned with permanent installations like Soarin that are chronic slow movers.
One would argue they could do more to alleve the short term A&E phenomenon, but they are sticking to the tradition/illusion of one set of M&G characters at any one time, even though that concept is bent with different versions of the Fab 5 in M&G at the same time in different parks.

[DizneyFreak2002]

Exactly!

Instead of treating the symptoms, it is time to start treating the cause ....

If they were to treat the cause, the pencil pushing MBAs would be all out of jobs... Maybe creativity can them blossom again... Oh, but wait, there are other causes? Then Iger, Staggs, Rasulo, Crofton, Holmes, Georgie K, etc, etc etc would all be out of jobs too...

MANAGEMENT is the root cause of the problems... Until they hold themselves accountable, or until the BoD holds management accountable, the cause will not be taken care of...

[joonyer]

So what is the Cause? Too few attractions?
Or just such large numbers of guests?
Seems to me it is a combination of both.

When the parks are nearly full most of the time, there's a powerful incentive for ownership and management to do nothing different, despite the complaints of guests about long waits, poor service, etc. After all, as long as the parks are nearly full, they must be doing something right.

Why spend millions investing in new attractions if it is not going to significantly increase attendance? And if it does increase attendance, then all the rides/shows attractions will still have just as long a wait time as they did before. More rides, but more people attending. They don't build new attractions to reduce our wait times, they build them to increase revenue.

I certainly don't expect Disney to build additional attractions just to reduce wait times. There's no financial incentive for them to do that, unless and until guest dissatisfaction starts resulting in reduced park attendance. So vote with your wallet. Do something else with your vacation $$$. That's the quickest way to get their attention that something is wrong in the "world". Otherwise, with full parks and hotels, expect more of the same.

No matter what kind of FP/express pass systems is uses, they won't really change the big picture, which is: Large crowds + limited numbers of things to do = long lines, no matter how you spin it.

[Kenny1113]

So let's recap...

Disney started FP with paper fastpasses for guests to return at a later time during the day... Then they change FP to FP+, and eliminate the paper fastpasses... They add FP+ to rides which don't need FP thus increasing wait times... Also you can book 60 days out, not have to run to an attraction to get a paper FP, and so you could spend less time in lines (hasn't worked, guests are, on the average spending more time in lines)... only to now to create a situation where guests have to run to an attraction to obtain a paper fastpass to so you now don't have to wait on the stand by line and return when yourn new paper fastpass tells you to so you can wait in standby..


My thoughts exactly

[1DisneyNut]

Good grief. When does the insanity stop? We are going to have to start a tutoring class for first timers to even have a clue how to go on a WDW vacation. Heck, I have been so many times I can't count them all and I can't even keep up with when to schedule what or for where. When I can get more FP+'s and where or when to get them. Forget ADR's for restaurants when combined with all this other mess...........NOW all of the sudden they say "Hey......remember those paper fastpasses that worked so well that we used to use? Let's "test" those on a few attractions and meet and greets and see how they work." LMAO!

Now keep in mind, they are now layering the old paper FP on top of the FP+ as a test. I just want to bang my head on the wall.

I haven't been back since the introduced FP+ because I am dreading dealing with all of the scheduling and running around making the times. Now this.......I am just disgusted.

I realize they apparently see they have a problem and are trying to find a way to fix it. IMO, this new wait time issue is a direct result of FP+ that they did not foresee. They thought everyone would go eat ice creams and shop for souvenirs and apparently it never crossed their mind that everyone would instead just go stand in line for the latest fad or newest ride.

[Speedy1998]

Fastpass for Standby! Now I've seen everything!

WOW!

We're not far off from a fastpass for the restrooms folks!

Pre FP+ I used to say that the FP line for attractions like Soarin' and Toy Story Mania needed a FP.

[Speedy1998]

I haven't been back since the introduced FP+ because I am dreading dealing with all of the scheduling and running around making the times. Now this.......I am just disgusted.



I actually found the new FP+ system less stressful once I arrived at the parks. I no longer had to be the runner that went to get Fastpasses, while the rest of my group was off having fun.

[Speedy1998]

It almost sounds like this new thing is what the original FP was supposed to be (as envisioned by Disney), except this time the pass controls the standbye line, where as before the pass allowed you to bypass the standbye line.

One intresting thing that I read is that they do not give you a pass unless the line is more than 30 minutes long. I find this intresting because it will prevent what I think was one of the biggest problems with the original FP. Which was people pulling FPs when there was no line.

[Mfarquar]

Stock price is going up because revenue is greater than expenses.

Raise prices and cut back spending and wall street is happy. WDW is doing both of those. Customer satisfaction is not figured into stock price.

Exactly. And don't forget theme parks are only a very small part of the Disney stock. Disney is a mega corporation - don't forget ABC, television development, movies, DVD/digital sales, music ventures, profits from IP permissions, Pixar, Star Wars, Marvel - technically speaking, there are 5 branches - Media Networks, Parks and Resorts, Studio Entertainment, Consumer Products, and Interactive.

There's a lot going on here profit-wise beyond the theme parks. Back in the day there were times that DIS stock has flown up despite reveune plateauing in the parks.

[Mfarquar]

Good grief. When does the insanity stop? We are going to have to start a tutoring class for first timers to even have a clue how to go on a WDW vacation. Heck, I have been so many times I can't count them all and I can't even keep up with when to schedule what or for where. When I can get more FP+'s and where or when to get them. Forget ADR's for restaurants when combined with all this other mess...........NOW all of the sudden they say "Hey......remember those paper fastpasses that worked so well that we used to use? Let's "test" those on a few attractions and meet and greets and see how they work." LMAO!

Now keep in mind, they are now layering the old paper FP on top of the FP+ as a test. I just want to bang my head on the wall.

I haven't been back since the introduced FP+ because I am dreading dealing with all of the scheduling and running around making the times. Now this.......I am just disgusted.

I realize they apparently see they have a problem and are trying to find a way to fix it. IMO, this new wait time issue is a direct result of FP+ that they did not foresee. They thought everyone would go eat ice creams and shop for souvenirs and apparently it never crossed their mind that everyone would instead just go stand in line for the latest fad or newest ride.

It's like you read my mind! I feel bad for first-timers and this seems like a bit mess. I'm hoping this is all logically and smoothly figured out before my next visit!

I'm a planner by nature and, in fact, plan professionally for a living. But this is to the point that it is no longer relaxing and/or enjoyable!

[DizneyFreak2002]

So apparently, from a CM front line point of view, this was a failure... people turned away cause no more passes left? People mad cause they couldn't get on the stand by line without a fast pass... Wow who would have thunk it... Not TDO...

And reportedly, the testing at Soarin is already a failure as well... Again, lots of angry guests...

People, any more proof TDO are morons?

[1DisneyNut]

So apparently, from a CM front line point of view, this was a failure... people turned away cause no more passes left? People mad cause they couldn't get on the stand by line without a fast pass... Wow who would have thunk it... Not TDO...

And reportedly, the testing at Soarin is already a failure as well... Again, lots of angry guests...



Shocker.....lol

Who in their right mind would have ever thought that was a good idea anyway?

I guess from an optimist point of view, one could say at least they are trying to do something. Trying to put more layers on top of an already overly complicated system isn't going to do the trick though.

I have to say, if I was there and walked up to say Soarin expecting to stand in line, even if the line was long but then was turned away because they had given out paper FP's for the standby line on top of filling the FP line with FP+'s.......I would probably be escorted to the exit gate before it was over with.

[Polynesian Dweller]

So apparently, from a CM front line point of view, this was a failure... people turned away cause no more passes left? People mad cause they couldn't get on the stand by line without a fast pass... Wow who would have thunk it... Not TDO...

And reportedly, the testing at Soarin is already a failure as well... Again, lots of angry guests...

People, any more proof TDO are morons?
Their morons for trying to control standby lines? Not in my book. They tried something and it didn't work so back to lots of frustrated people in very long lines. At least they tried which was better than doing nothing which I'm sure would get similar complaints. Very easy to complain when one can complain about all sides of an issue.

I do have a question, how many multibillion dollar theme parks have you run?

[DizneyFreak2002]

Shocker.....lol

Who in their right mind would have ever thought that was a good idea anyway?

Who? Meg... Georgie... And the other wonderfully gifted and talented individuals ruining, I mean running WDW...

Oh and of course those Disney fans who think Disney loves them, cares about them, and is perfect in every way... :)

[DizneyFreak2002]

Their morons for trying to control standby lines? Not in my book. They tried something and it didn't work so back to lots of frustrated people in very long lines. At least they tried which was better than doing nothing which I'm sure would get similar complaints. Very easy to complain when one can complain about all sides of an issue.

I do have a question, how many multibillion dollar theme parks have you run?

Yes they are morons...

Easy and simple solution: ADD MORE CAPACITY... oh but wait, that means spending money.. Never mind... it isn't DVC or else they would :)

And anyone with active brain cells could have known and would have known this wouldn't have worked... But hey, they run multi billion dollar theme parks... Guess they know what they are doing...


***They don't by the way...

[DizneyRox]

Yes they are morons...

Easy and simple solution: ADD MORE CAPACITY... oh but wait, that means spending money.. Never mind... it isn't DVC or else they would :)

And anyone with active brain cells could have known and would have known this wouldn't have worked... But hey, they run multi billion dollar theme parks... Guess they know what they are doing...


***They don't by the way...
Lines are a result of ride capacity and park capacity. More people in without adding get ride throughput results in lines. Charging $100 a day means people, dang nabbit, will try to get their money's worth, which doesn't mean shopping, it means rides.

This doesn't mean lowering prices will produce less lines, although it might mean people stay longer and are in less of a rush, but realistically, they need something for people to do besides shop. 9 out of 10 people have a vacation budget that ain't moving once they arrive at the park, so realize that making people shop instead of ride isn't going to work.

[Cheshire_Girl]

I do have a question, how many multibillion dollar theme parks have you run?

I'm still waiting, with baited breath , for the answer to this question...
Clearly it has been many

[DonaldDuck1117]

Except people's budgets DO change when they are on a vacation. Maybe not you, or others on this board but people do over spend their budgets while on vacation. And the magic bands are proving that. Spending is up. They are doing what they were designed to do. Are they doing it at the rate Disney hoped for? No way. It took longer to develop them than they hoped, and it cost more than the had thought, but, they are finally seeing a return on investment. Now they hope that grows.

Going back to Iger, as I said before you can say the Resort is no where what it was like back in the day (funny how there are always people saying that and not just about the parks but about life in general) and you have valid points about certain things-I would love if the spent money to fill out AK and Studios-but Iger's job is not to worry solely about the parks, but the whole company. We all know how big the Disney empire is. It has grown under Iger, and the company has never been more profitable.

You can crtizise the job he has done with the parks and resorts wing of the company if you'd like, however, calling him a terrible CEO is a ridiculous statement.

[DizneyFreak2002]

Except people's budgets DO change when they are on a vacation. Maybe not you, or others on this board but people do over spend their budgets while on vacation. And the magic bands are proving that. Spending is up. They are doing what they were designed to do. Are they doing it at the rate Disney hoped for? No way. It took longer to develop them than they hoped, and it cost more than the had thought, but, they are finally seeing a return on investment. Now they hope that grows.

Wrong... Spending is not up because of the magic bands... Spending is up on higher prices... Their SEC filings even state as much... When they report their financials, their releases always say spending up due to increase in prices, not because sales are up... Sales are stagnant... Spending does not equal sales... Even Rasulo said they won't see any kind of gains from the NextGen money spent until 2015, and that's a maybe...

I guess we should also toss in those money grab, hard ticket, after hours events too... Those add to the profits, and have absolutely nothing to do with magic bands...



Going back to Iger, as I said before you can say the Resort is no where what it was like back in the day (funny how there are always people saying that and not just about the parks but about life in general) and you have valid points about certain things-I would love if the spent money to fill out AK and Studios-but Iger's job is not to worry solely about the parks, but the whole company. We all know how big the Disney empire is. It has grown under Iger, and the company has never been more profitable. Iger doesn't care about the parks at all.. I think that is evident...


You can crtizise the job he has done with the parks and resorts wing of the company if you'd like, however, calling him a terrible CEO is a ridiculous statement.He is a terrible CEO... Just go look at the numbers from when Eisner was CEO to Iger's term as CEO... Eisner had better numbers all around... Someone posted online somewhere comparing their numbers... I am going to look for it... And if they give permission, I'll post it... It is eye opening just how bad Iger has really been...

And forget the stock price.. The stock split how many times under Eisner? Split how many times under Iger? How many times was the stock over $100 with Eisner? How many times with Iger? Stock price does NOT tell the whole story...

Sad thing is, if Iger has his way, the CEO after him will be even worse...

[yjgirl32]

If people are so unhappy with Disney why do you(they) keep coming on a website for Disney. I get Disney is not perfect but neither is any other park. Some parks(most that I have been to) either make you wait in line or charge you for their version of fastpass. Maybe their idea didn't work, but they are trying. Maybe im just not a negative person. :)

[VWL Mom]

Their morons for trying to control standby lines? Not in my book. They tried something and it didn't work so back to lots of frustrated people in very long lines. At least they tried which was better than doing nothing which I'm sure would get similar complaints. Very easy to complain when one can complain about all sides of an issue.


I agree, regardless of the outcome they attempted to fix it. Posts of this type with constant Disney bashing amaze me, mostly because they end with people saying they'll be taking their money to Universal where they are appreciated. Guess what, there are some really long lines there too! And you have to pay for your express pass which doesn't cover many of the rides! Maybe Disney should just throw in the proverbial free fp towel and start selling them…oh wait, they'd be wrong then too.

BTW, the wait for A&E at DL end of June was 30 minutes, go figure.

[Terra]

If people are so unhappy with Disney why do you(they) keep coming on a website for Disney. I get Disney is not perfect but neither is any other park. Some parks(most that I have been to) either make you wait in line or charge you for their version of fastpass. Maybe their idea didn't work, but they are trying. Maybe im just not a negative person. :)


I agree, regardless of the outcome they attempted to fix it. Posts of this type with constant Disney bashing amaze me, mostly because they end with people saying they'll be taking their money to Universal where they are appreciated. Guess what, there are some really long lines there too! And you have to pay for your express pass which doesn't cover many of the rides! Maybe Disney should just throw in the proverbial free fp towel and start selling them…oh wait, they'd be wrong then too.

BTW, the wait for A&E at DL end of June was 30 minutes, go figure.

I have been wondering this as well. I'm going to be honest. I adore Intercot. It does however feel more negative towards Disney as of late than any other time, and I've been a member for over 10 years.

And please don't cite "Cranking because we care". That line is getting old. It's one thing to not like a few things, but it seems to be constant bashing anymore. And that makes it very unappealing as a place to come and discuss love of Disney.

[Cheshire_Girl]

I have been wondering this as well. I'm going to be honest. I adore Intercot. It does however feel more negative towards Disney as of late than any other time, and I've been a member for over 10 years.

And please don't cite "Cranking because we care". That line is getting old. It's one thing to not like a few things, but it seems to be constant bashing anymore. And that makes it very unappealing as a place to come and discuss love of Disney.

I feel the same way. And yes, I complain about things I don't like-it's ok to do that to an extent-especially when we are here sharing information ...example-I hate they removed the Brides ring from HM Ques-so I shared about it...and moved on
It seems like there are a handful of people here who post novels full of their opinions and hearsay-cramming up the board with arrogance and hate and if you try to state any point of view that does not agree with their opinion of how bad Disney is or how to fix WDW, TDO etc...they just write another arrogant hateful novel...
Makes me not want to come and share on the board for fear one of these people will high jack my thread with their arrogant hateful BS...it takes the fun out of being a part of an on line community that is supposed to share similar interests...Just saying

[rjmdds]

So let's recap...

Disney started FP with paper fastpasses for guests to return at a later time during the day... Then they change FP to FP+, and eliminate the paper fastpasses... They add FP+ to rides which don't need FP thus increasing wait times... Also you can book 60 days out, not have to run to an attraction to get a paper FP, and so you could spend less time in lines (hasn't worked, guests are, on the average spending more time in lines)... only to now to create a situation where guests have to run to an attraction to obtain a paper fastpass to so you now don't have to wait on the stand by line and return when yourn new paper fastpass tells you to so you can wait in standby..

WDW is the most relaxing, most magical vacation EVER...

Makes complete sense. :crazy:

[Melanie]

Well, I do crank because I care. And this is just a Fastpass for a standby line. Something is horribly wrong here.

[Cheshire_Girl]

Well, I do crank because I care. And this is just a Fastpass for a standby line. Something is horribly wrong here.

It's one thing to crank because you care- for me, this thread has gone way beyond cranking 'cuz you care for some people and entered the realm of meltdown!
Ugh...:ill:

[DonaldDuck1117]

Well I'm going to flat out disagree with you Disneyfreak. All the articles I have read in business journals about Magic Bands say they are doing what the were intending to do-make people spend more. The articles do say that it will take some time to recoup the cost but that they are finally seeing a return on investment.

They also talk about the future of Magic Bands. Disney wants to use it for more than getting you to buy more while in the parks, they want market research to then get you to spend more in the future. The article gives the example of 'hey that Bob guy rode Haunted Mansion 15 times on his visit. Lets send him a coupon for 25% off Haunted Mansion gear for our online store.' Or, 'hmm Gary stayed with us for 7 days but only bought park tickets for 5 days. He may be going off property for 2 days, what can we do to keep him on property next time? Maybe a restaurant coupon would do it.'

They go on to talk about tracking where guests are during the day and being better able to estimate crowd levels and can better staff the resort which saves the company money.

Point being the Magic Bands weren't created for something as short sighted as in park spending. We all know you hate everything Magic Band, but just because you dislike them and scream really loud about it doesn't mean they aren't working. They are

[DizneyFreak2002]

BTW, the wait for A&E at DL end of June was 30 minutes, go figure.

30 minutes? Really... Go figure... Especially since, if waits did decrease to 30 minutes at the end of June, would have had nothing to do with the testing.. Since the testing was done at the end of July...



And please don't cite "Cranking because we care". That line is getting old. It's one thing to not like a few things, but it seems to be constant bashing anymore. And that makes it very unappealing as a place to come and discuss love of Disney.

You know what else gets old? When someone who doesn't see things through pixie dusted glasses posts their opinions which may not be 100% positive, they get told to leave the site, stop wasting your time here, and to stop going to WDW... That just shows me, and proves to me, what I have said about some online Disney fans for a while now.. And no, I won't post it... I have stated it in the past... I'm sure you read it before..


Makes complete sense. :crazy:

To TDO it did... Of course, they also think it makes complete sense to shut restaurants, cut entertainment, close attractions for good, and reduce capacity while some attractions, and the MK as a park, burst at the seams..

[cer]

It may appear to be working for Disney Corporate, but I do believe that it is completely debatable as to whether Fastpass Plus is improving the park experience of the guests - especially off-site guests or day-only guests. John testifies as such from his last park experience on the most recent podcast.

Most don't complain about the band, it's the Fast pass plus experience.

I think guests are completely justified when they show up at a standby line and are told they can't standby because they don't have a fast pass. It is absurd that they even offered that as a solution and so very wise of them to remove it.

[DizneyFreak2002]

Well I'm going to flat out disagree with you Disneyfreak. All the articles I have read in business journals about Magic Bands say they are doing what the were intending to do-make people spend more. The articles do say that it will take some time to recoup the cost but that they are finally seeing a return on investment.

You can disagree.. Doesn't mean you are right... And doesn't mean the articles you read are right... The numbers tell a different story.. As does Disney's own words in their SEC filings...


They also talk about the future of Magic Bands. Disney wants to use it for more than getting you to buy more while in the parks, they want market research to then get you to spend more in the future. The article gives the example of 'hey that Bob guy rode Haunted Mansion 15 times on his visit. Lets send him a coupon for 25% off Haunted Mansion gear for our online store.' Or, 'hmm Gary stayed with us for 7 days but only bought park tickets for 5 days. He may be going off property for 2 days, what can we do to keep him on property next time? Maybe a restaurant coupon would do it.' Yep, this isn't anything new... This has been talked about plenty of times... Already knew they had this as a plan... However, the way they want to carry this out is backwards... Instead of targeting the people who may not spend a lot and maybe entice them to spend a little more, they are looking to target the already big spenders...


They go on to talk about tracking where guests are during the day and being better able to estimate crowd levels and can better staff the resort which saves the company money. Already knew this and discussed this as well. Nothing new here either... All I got to say about that is, CMs, kiss your jobs bye bye...

Since when is it a good thing for more Americans to be out of work?


Point being the Magic Bands weren't created for something as short sighted as in park spending. We all know you hate everything Magic Band, but just because you dislike them and scream really loud about it doesn't mean they aren't working. They areWe know why Magic Bands were created... We have discussed it thousands of times... I never said they were created for the sole purpose of increasing park spending.. I did, however, see the defenders of the bands and NextGen state as much...

I say they aren't working cause they aren't... Rasulo's own words, regarding not just the bands, but this My Magic Plus in general was to the effect: the more we force you to plan ever minute of your trip, the more we force you to stay on property which will then equal you spending more money with us... Too bad that isn't working...

As far as my hatred for magic bands, did you bother to read my observations and thoughts from October? Or did you ignore it completely... I ask cause I stated I had no issues or no problems with the bands working... And I have no issues with the bands in general.. I DO have issues with NextGen and the cost associated with it...

[Terra]

You know what else gets old? When someone who doesn't see things through pixie dusted glasses posts their opinions which may not be 100% positive, they get told to leave the site, stop wasting your time here, and to stop going to WDW... That just shows me, and proves to me, what I have said about some online Disney fans for a while now.. And no, I won't post it... I have stated it in the past... I'm sure you read it before..




Well, I never told you to leave ;) Certainly we all do have a right to our opinions. And I do agree with some in the past, of what you said. And I say this 'cause I HAVE agreed. It does seem like as of lately, everything you post is negative.
At some point, like with a job someone hates because there was new management and lots of change.
You have to decide if it's worth the level of frustration for you to continually post all negative. Personally? I couldn't hack it. But by all means, if you are comfortable with only negative thoughts, have at it.

If that makes me pixie dust colored glasses nerdy, then I'm in ;)
Heck I do not AT ALL like the new GAC procedures. HATE IT. But I can't change it so I deal, and still choose to have a fun attitude.
People don't want negative all the time. In my experience anyway.

I find that the people (like me) who AREN'T Frozen fans are the ones immune to complaining about this the loudest, or to crying about the "greedy bottom line" or "mismanagement" of the parks, and how "Iger and co." are "disrespecting what's currently their biggest hit" and "blind to the audience demand" by not permanently plastering all four parks with it, or using it as an excuse to build another New Fantasyland this week to make the parks more interesting, and that they'll "vote with their dollars" now that "Harry Potter has changed the game".
Which, as I joked (or at least made the friendly appearance of joking) earlier, isn't about Iger, isn't about the lines, and isn't about attractions. It's because the complainant couldn't get his Frozen fix. Which sounds, to the outside Frozen-immune bystander observer, like a child throwing a meltdown because the line on Peter Pan was too long, and blaming anyone who gets in his way as "unfair".

Over on another board, we had one notorious poster who practically made a public board jackass out of himself claiming to have "Insider scoops" that MaelFrozen was happening, and stonewalled all argument to the contrary with "Nope, it's a doner, totally going to happen," and laughed off any poster response of "And you know this how?..." as just disgruntled pixie-dust fans who didn't want to face the inevitable. (Although most believed it as gospel truth completely out of hand on said lack of evidence, because it was "supposed" to happen at this point.)
When pushed to the edge, he later let it slip that he hadn't been to the park in years, and hated Epcot for the "mismanagement", his "insider scoop" had been on a chat board while waiting for a D&D game, and nearly every rumor was laced with long editorials about how I&C "would" bulldoze Norway, just like every other lame bad decision they'd made at Epcot, etc.

No 'ffense, DizFreak, but....you're sounding EXACTLY like that. Right down to the semicolon. Frustration with the management has the psychological effect of turning wishful rumors into fact, and "fact" into schedules, and you want to believe in cynical paranoia, because any thought that Disney might not be doing it is "just fooling yourselves".
The 5-hour lines, to the immune observer do not seem normal (in fact, they're bringing back old flashbacks of the days of when you couldn't turn in any direction and get away from High School Musical at DHS), and Disney is trying to make normal out of the abnormal, until such day, if any over the next few months, as it passes. And I'm one of those folks who think they're doing an able, or at least thankless, job of it.

Yes to this. Great insight.

[DizneyFreak2002]

Well, I never told you to leave ;) Certainly we all do have a right to our opinions. And I do agree with some in the past, of what you said. And I say this 'cause I HAVE agreed. It does seem like as of lately, everything you post is negative.
At some point, like with a job someone hates because there was new management and lots of change.
You have to decide if it's worth the level of frustration for you to continually post all negative. Personally? I couldn't hack it. But by all means, if you are comfortable with only negative thoughts, have at it.

If that makes me pixie dust colored glasses nerdy, then I'm in ;)
Heck I do not AT ALL like the new GAC procedures. HATE IT. But I can't change it so I deal, and still choose to have a fun attitude.
People don't want negative all the time. In my experience anyway.


Not everything I post is or has been negative.. I have been front and center defending Avatar... I have given props to the new Festival of Fantasy parade... I have even said the new hub work is much needed and, if looks anything like the art released, will make the hub look great... I have said New Fantasyland is nice looking, though lacking substance... Trust me, I have been plenty of positive... People only want to ever notice the negative though...

I refer you to my October trip observations... There are plenty of positives in there...

And I didn't personally mean you when I mentioned about the tiring comments...

You don't like the new GAC procedures... Many don't.. But don't think you can't change it.. You can... In order to be part of the solution, you need to express your displeasure... They will listen... And if enough complain, they will change procedures... :thumbsup:

[Terra]

Not everything I post is or has been negative.. I have been front and center defending Avatar... I have given props to the new Festival of Fantasy parade... I have even said the new hub work is much needed and, if looks anything like the art released, will make the hub look great... I have said New Fantasyland is nice looking, though lacking substance... Trust me, I have been plenty of positive... People only want to ever notice the negative though...

I refer you to my October trip observations... There are plenty of positives in there...

And I didn't personally mean you when I mentioned about the tiring comments...

You don't like the new GAC procedures... Many don't.. But don't think you can't change it.. You can... In order to be part of the solution, you need to express your displeasure... They will listen... And if enough complain, they will change procedures... :thumbsup:
Oh, I should go in on the lawsuit! Totally kidding. :blush:

Can't argue with you there, yes you have had some positives. I guess on this subject, It's just not a big deal for me maybe? I don't really have a dog in the fight. Don't see the big issue with the FP or bands. BUT that is just me.

On another note, I do think I may write a letter of displeasure on behalf of my son for the GAC.

[PirateLover]

A fastpass for a standyby is crazy and a momentary stop-gap that doesn't address the larger issue. I can give them a break on the out-of-the-bluestaying power and popularity of A&E, but as for Soarin'? You wouldn't need to go that route if they invested in other areas of Epcot.

:soapbox: As for the back and forth about negative posts, I just have to shake my head and wonder how many people criticizing have ever ventured over to ANY other disney board. The vast majority are filled with negative know-it-alls ready to bite your head off. Intercot is still by far the friendliest Disney site that I've ever come across. I've been an active poster here for over a decade now. If there is a particular poster that gets on your nerves so bad, there is an ignore feature. Otherwise, no one is making you read what they write. Skip his/her posts when you see them. As long as no one is being personally attacked or someone is a troll just out looking for trouble, there is nothing wrong with being critical. I for one love to hear multiple opinions on things and appreciate a good debate. Sadly it seems in this day and age society as a whole is becoming less and less tolerant of opposing view points, and many would rather go about their lives never having to deal with people who have differing opinions, and that's a shame. :soapbox:

[VWL Mom]

30 minutes? Really... Go figure... Especially since, if waits did decrease to 30 minutes at the end of June, would have had nothing to do with the testing.. Since the testing was done at the end of July...




I know that, I was just saying that the A&E frenzy just seems to be at WDW and not at Disneyland. It was just an aside.

[DizneyFreak2002]

I know that, I was just saying that the A&E frenzy just seems to be at WDW and not at Disneyland. It was just an aside.

It's crazy at WDW... Absolute crazy... Haven't been to DL so serious question... Are the meet and greet lines, in general, at DL just as long as in WDW or shorter over all? Not just Anna/Elsa, I mean ALL meet and greets... I wonder cause I always felt Disney pushed meeting the characters in WDW as if it were a necessity and your trip/vacation wouldn't be complete if you didn't wait in line to meet a character... Do they promote DL the same way? Also could just be the clientele... More tourists in WDW mean longer M&G lines...



:soapbox: As for the back and forth about negative posts, I just have to shake my head and wonder how many people criticizing have ever ventured over to ANY other disney board. The vast majority are filled with negative know-it-alls ready to bite your head off. Intercot is still by far the friendliest Disney site that I've ever come across. I've been an active poster here for over a decade now. If there is a particular poster that gets on your nerves so bad, there is an ignore feature. Otherwise, no one is making you read what they write. Skip his/her posts when you see them. As long as no one is being personally attacked or someone is a troll just out looking for trouble, there is nothing wrong with being critical. I for one love to hear multiple opinions on things and appreciate a good debate. Sadly it seems in this day and age society as a whole is becoming less and less tolerant of opposing view points, and many would rather go about their lives never having to deal with people who have differing opinions, and that's a shame. :soapbox:

The thing people need to understand, just because one is critical of management decisions, or decide to speak out about the condition of the parks, does not mean they are a negative person... Does not mean they are not a fan.. Does not mean they are not friendly... And, just because someone is absolutely positive about everything WDW, does not mean they are friendly... I have seen just as many positive people act vicious toward someone who may post something about WDW in not so great a light...

Someone who is no longer a member cause John took care of him quickly, sent me a PM after I posted something (and honestly, I even forget what it was about, but it didn't put WDW in a good light) telling me he wished I got cancer and died... On another board, a complete psycho decided to cyber stalk me, gaining access to my real name and the names of my family members, and sent me a PM taunting me... That person has since been banned on that other site (apparently, I wasn't the only one he did that too)... All because we didn't see 7DMT as an E ticket, or because we didn't think anything too special about the ride itself... That is something I would never do... I may not agree with everyone but I would never send a threatening PM...

[Terra]

:soapbox: As for the back and forth about negative posts, I just have to shake my head and wonder how many people criticizing have ever ventured over to ANY other disney board. The vast majority are filled with negative know-it-alls ready to bite your head off. Intercot is still by far the friendliest Disney site that I've ever come across. I've been an active poster here for over a decade now. If there is a particular poster that gets on your nerves so bad, there is an ignore feature. Otherwise, no one is making you read what they write. Skip his/her posts when you see them. As long as no one is being personally attacked or someone is a troll just out looking for trouble, there is nothing wrong with being critical. I for one love to hear multiple opinions on things and appreciate a good debate. Sadly it seems in this day and age society as a whole is becoming less and less tolerant of opposing view points, and many would rather go about their lives never having to deal with people who have differing opinions, and that's a shame. :soapbox:
:soapbox: I would say that on a personal note, you don't know me enough to know how tolerant I am. I'm actually very liberal and open minded.
I do get what you are saying, by the same coin, I can express my opinion that there is quite a bit of negativity towards Disney in some posts. That *would* be my opinion on Disney. It's not as bad as some make it out to be with all the changes [again, my opinion].
And yes, I have been and do participate in other Disney boards and I hear that phrase a lot [that they are big ole meanies ;)]. PERSONALLY, I haven't seen or experienced that.
But I do agree that there are things that bother all of us on some level about Disney. Like I said, I do not at all like the new GAC and having to wait and come back. It doesn't work for my ASD son. But you know what I basically got told here? If you don't like it don't go. So it happens here too ;)
On a fun note, you and and I both have been here for over a decade!! Go us!!! :)


We know, or can at least cynically theorize, why the A&E lines are that long, but there's nothing in the world you can to do to "fix" Soarin's crowds.
Complain about FW all you like, but Soarin' still attracts guests because, like trying to get a breakfast reservation at Boma, It's That Good. :thumbsup:

There'll always be long lines for Soarin', just as there'll always be long lines for Toy Story Mania at DHS, and if you build more attractions, it'll attract attention, but it won't stop people from lining up for Soarin' or TSM. It'll give guests "other things to do", but guests will still see it as "Other things to ALSO do." They're not lining up for Soarin' because they were bored.
Did Seven Dwarves Mine Train "help" the A&E lines?
That is true. You could add 10 more things to FW but I'm still going to hit Soarin' every single time, because our group adores it!!


The thing people need to understand, just because one is critical of management decisions, or decide to speak out about the condition of the parks, does not mean they are a negative person... Does not mean they are not a fan.. Does not mean they are not friendly... And, just because someone is absolutely positive about everything WDW, does not mean they are friendly... I have seen just as many positive people act vicious toward someone who may post something about WDW in not so great a light...

Someone who is no longer a member cause John took care of him quickly, sent me a PM after I posted something (and honestly, I even forget what it was about, but it didn't put WDW in a good light) telling me he wished I got cancer and died... On another board, a complete psycho decided to cyber stalk me, gaining access to my real name and the names of my family members, and sent me a PM taunting me... That person has since been banned on that other site (apparently, I wasn't the only one he did that too)... All because we didn't see 7DMT as an E ticket, or because we didn't think anything too special about the ride itself... That is something I would never do... I may not agree with everyone but I would never send a threatening PM...
Oh my goodness are you serious DizFreak? Now you and I may not agree all the time, but never once has it ever crossed my mind [on a personal level] that you were a terrible person and deserved death. Eeks. Who does that?????
I just like a healthy debate. Glad that person was taken care of!!!

[DizneyFreak2002]

That is true. You could add 10 more things to FW but I'm still going to hit Soarin' every single time, because our group adores it!!

If 10 more things were added to Future World, that would add capacity and help with the long crazy lines as Soarin.. Heck, adding that extra theater will help.. Which has been the point I have been trying to make.. Paper passes aren't going to work... it was a stupid idea... And that has been obvious with the failed tests... There are two options: 1) add capacity or 2) remove the thing causing the demand if you cannot add supply to alleviate the demand... We know they aren't going to remove Soarin... So what do they do to fix the line problem? They need to add capacity...

First, do something with Wonders of Life... Make a new pavilion with at least 1 E ticket... They could add in 2 other c tickets for all I care... But make it something guests would want to see... Fix UoE... Fix Imagination.. Fix them into must see attractions... They no longer are... Just doing that would help reduce Soarin wait times... That new theater would be the icing on the cake...


Oh my goodness are you serious DizFreak? Now you and I may not agree all the time, but never once has it ever crossed my mind [on a personal level] that you were a terrible person and deserved death. Eeks. Who does that?????
I just like a healthy debate. Glad that person was taken care of!!!Yes, I am serious... I forget how long ago that happened... Think he had NINJA in his handle... Don't remember, don't recall... But yes... I do remember the handle of the guy on the other site, which I won't name on here for obvious reasons...

And thank you... The people who know me offline know I'm not a terrible person... And from reading your posts on here Terra, I can tell you aren't either... In fact, I don't think many people on here are terrible... If I did, I'd have flown the coup long ago, not engaging as I do.. Bringing news and rumors to the site for people to read and discuss, whether good or bad... :thumbsup:

[yankeesfan123]

If 10 more things were added to Future World, that would add capacity and help with the long crazy lines as Soarin.. Heck, adding that extra theater will help.. Which has been the point I have been trying to make.. Paper passes aren't going to work... it was a stupid idea... And that has been obvious with the failed tests... There are two options: 1) add capacity or 2) remove the thing causing the demand if you cannot add supply to alleviate the demand... We know they aren't going to remove Soarin... So what do they do to fix the line problem? They need to add capacity...


They don't, and can't, add attractions over night.

We've all heard the rumors of the added capacity for Soarin.

But guess what? That's months, or years, away.

This paper test was likely a "we need a quick and temporary fix" and not "we can do this instead of adding attractions."


Yankees fan. Forum legend.

[VWL Mom]

It's crazy at WDW... Absolute crazy... Haven't been to DL so serious question... Are the meet and greet lines, in general, at DL just as long as in WDW or shorter over all? Not just Anna/Elsa, I mean ALL meet and greets... I wonder cause I always felt Disney pushed meeting the characters in WDW as if it were a necessity and your trip/vacation wouldn't be complete if you didn't wait in line to meet a character... Do they promote DL the same way? Also could just be the clientele... More tourists in WDW mean longer M&G lines...



I think the character lines were shorter than most. Besides less tourists, they seemed to have more characters in one location giving people more to choose from.

I think overall DL did a much better job with line management. Generally speaking, we found the CM's to be more adept at loading rides making the whole production run more efficiently, probably in part due to the lack of FP feed.

[DizneyFreak2002]

They don't, and can't, add attractions over night.

We've all heard the rumors of the added capacity for Soarin.

But guess what? That's months, or years, away.

This paper test was likely a "we need a quick and temporary fix" and not "we can do this instead of adding attractions."


Yankees fan. Forum legend.

They can built a DVC in a year, but an attraction takes them what, 10? They can build it fast, especially a clone, if they want to.. They don't.... again, TDO's fear of spending money...

And Soarin has been open for how long now? Lines and wait times for Soarin have been an issue for how long now? Capacity in Epcot has been a problem for how long now?

They could have built at least one more theater for Soarin by now... Again, points to morons running the theme park... If casual fans online can point out a problem, those brilliant people running the parks, you know, the ones with all that experience and know what they are doing, could have obviously seen it too... And if online fans know that adding more to Epcot or even just the theater YEARS AGO would help solve the problem, then the great TDO team, who apparently know what they are doing, should have figured that out that quick as well.. Not years later...

Soarin capacity issues aren't new... They should have and could have fixed it long ago... Neither are TSMM's capacity issues... Again, the fixes are easy... They are just allergic to writing checks to fix things the proper way...

Thank you for proving my point that TDO are, in fact, cheap morons... :)

[yankeesfan123]

They can built a DVC in a year, but an attraction takes them what, 10? They can build it fast, especially a clone, if they want to.. They don't.... again, TDO's fear of spending money...

And Soarin has been open for how long now? Lines and wait times for Soarin have been an issue for how long now? Capacity in Epcot has been a problem for how long now?

They could have built at least one more theater for Soarin by now... Again, points to morons running the theme park... If casual fans online can point out a problem, those brilliant people running the parks, you know, the ones with all that experience and know what they are doing, could have obviously seen it too... And if online fans know that adding more to Epcot or even just the theater YEARS AGO would help solve the problem, then the great TDO team, who apparently know what they are doing, should have figured that out that quick as well.. Not years later...

Soarin capacity issues aren't new... They should have and could have fixed it long ago... Neither are TSMM's capacity issues... Again, the fixes are easy... They are just allergic to writing checks to fix things the proper way...

Thank you for proving my point that TDO are, in fact, cheap morons... :)

FP, and the tiered system, has created new demand for Soarin.

If they were able to increase capacity, it's possible that they could get rid of the Tiering at that park.

[Terra]

If 10 more things were added to Future World, that would add capacity and help with the long crazy lines as Soarin.. Heck, adding that extra theater will help.. Which has been the point I have been trying to make.. Paper passes aren't going to work... it was a stupid idea... And that has been obvious with the failed tests... There are two options: 1) add capacity or 2) remove the thing causing the demand if you cannot add supply to alleviate the demand... We know they aren't going to remove Soarin... So what do they do to fix the line problem? They need to add capacity...

First, do something with Wonders of Life... Make a new pavilion with at least 1 E ticket... They could add in 2 other c tickets for all I care... But make it something guests would want to see... Fix UoE... Fix Imagination.. Fix them into must see attractions... They no longer are... Just doing that would help reduce Soarin wait times... That new theater would be the icing on the cake...
Yes, I am serious... I forget how long ago that happened... Think he had NINJA in his handle... Don't remember, don't recall... But yes... I do remember the handle of the guy on the other site, which I won't name on here for obvious reasons...

And thank you... The people who know me offline know I'm not a terrible person... And from reading your posts on here Terra, I can tell you aren't either... In fact, I don't think many people on here are terrible... If I did, I'd have flown the coup long ago, not engaging as I do.. Bringing news and rumors to the site for people to read and discuss, whether good or bad... :thumbsup:
Oh shush:secret: Never get rid of Soarin. Hehehe.
Wow, I am just floored that people are, well, crazy like that! That's when people don't know the difference between healthy conversation and down right stupidity!
For some reason, the handle sounds familiar but I must have missed the meanness. I'm so sorry!

Honestly, I know we would all have a blast if we could meet in real life! And THAT is the part of Intercot I agree on and love. We can debate in one thread but find fun and common ground in another! :)

On an off topic note as far as adding another theater to Soarin', love that idea. It does amaze me how much room Disney really does have to continually add.

[ChipNDale79]

Except people's budgets DO change when they are on a vacation. Maybe not you, or others on this board but people do over spend their budgets while on vacation. And the magic bands are proving that. Spending is up. They are doing what they were designed to do. Are they doing it at the rate Disney hoped for? No way. It took longer to develop them than they hoped, and it cost more than the had thought, but, they are finally seeing a return on investment. Now they hope that grows.

Going back to Iger, as I said before you can say the Resort is no where what it was like back in the day (funny how there are always people saying that and not just about the parks but about life in general) and you have valid points about certain things-I would love if the spent money to fill out AK and Studios-but Iger's job is not to worry solely about the parks, but the whole company. We all know how big the Disney empire is. It has grown under Iger, and the company has never been more profitable.

You can crtizise the job he has done with the parks and resorts wing of the company if you'd like, however, calling him a terrible CEO is a ridiculous statement.


I can't speak for everyone else, but I can speak for myself.

We went in May and had a set budget on spending money, I came home with more money in my pocket than I normally do.

I used my Magic Band on everything, but I was timid of spending too much and had a hard time keep track of how much I spent, so there were some things I just didn't buy. I spent a lot less than I thought I did.

Iger has done a lot of good for the Studios side of the business, but if you're an east coaster and only go to Disney World, I'd bet your opinion of Iger from a parks perceptive are like mine. They aren't good.

In my opinion their is a very big lack of imagination by the executives at TDO. The magic band and FP+ implementation was a big black eye for them, and honestly I havent forgot that.

They rolled out a system that is being used to turn their guest upside down to get every penny out of their pocket, while implementing it caused massive headaches for their guests, and they were so bad and so over budget that they put on hold actual real improvements to the parks.

If you planned a vacation for late last year or early this year, you probably understand the frustrations that came with it because of Disney's failures. My wife spent a collective 6 hours on the phone with Disney IT over numerous phones calls to fix issues with our reservations.

So from a WDW perspective, Iger is hands down a failure in my eyes.

[RunDMV]

I'm still waiting, with baited breath , for the answer to this question...
Clearly it has been many

So, you have never criticized ANYTHING you didnt have first hand experience with? Like, criticizing politics, government, restaurant food, cars, freeway traffic, etc?

[RunDMV]

If people are so unhappy with Disney why do you(they) keep coming on a website for Disney. I get Disney is not perfect but neither is any other park. Some parks(most that I have been to) either make you wait in line or charge you for their version of fastpass. Maybe their idea didn't work, but they are trying. Maybe im just not a negative person. :)

Because some of us hope disney, who we all know monitors these and other boards, might get a clue. And that doesnt make anyone a negative person any more than it makes whole hearted supporters naive.

[PirateLover]

:soapbox: I would say that on a personal note, you don't know me enough to know how tolerant I am. I'm actually very liberal and open minded.
My comments were a general observation and certainly not directed at you, personally. You at least engage in debate. I was more referring to those who say "why are you even here since you hate Disney so much?"

And I do believe that If Epcot had 2 additional E-ticket attractions, it would certainly lessen the soarin line a bit. Of course you would still want to ride it, but maybe you would only ride it once. At Magic Kingdom, you have the 3 mountains and during busy season they are all long lines. We went during the summer two years in a row. One year Space mountain was under renovation and lines for splash and big thunder were even longer than the previous year. The line wouldn't completely disappear, but it would be somewhat alleviated. The only thing that will currently alleviate A&E line are more A&E meet and greets.
Apples and oranges to me.

[Kenny1113]

Unfortunately this is going on in many big corporations now a days(does this term make me sound old ;) ) . They are more concerned with the ROI on new initiatives than they are with quality and happiness of customers and hopefully repeat customers. :(

I understand that as a business they need to be worried about ROI and the bottom line, but it seems to be too heavily swayed that way now.

[DizneyFreak2002]

Recently posted on Twitter:



"At 5:30 guests were near riot level refusing to leave and the CM's were threatening to all quit. Reopened standby - made return holders mad."

"Second day, orders came down to "stick to the plan" and the queue closed again around 5pm. At 6:40 CMs began walking off refusing to work."

Oh how magical WDW has become!!!!!!!! Guess TDO really knows what they are doing when CMs are this close to walking off the jobs since their managers are, you know so experiences running theme parks... LOL...

[DizneyFreak2002]

Honestly, I know we would all have a blast if we could meet in real life! And THAT is the part of Intercot I agree on and love. We can debate in one thread but find fun and common ground in another! :)


We probably would have fun... Especially when I am in Orlando... I tend to come out of my shell when I am not in my home town or even state... :)

[1DisneyNut]

Unfortunately this is going on in many big corporations now a days(does this term make me sound old ;) ) . They are more concerned with the ROI on new initiatives than they are with quality and happiness of customers and hopefully repeat customers. :(

I understand that as a business they need to be worried about ROI and the bottom line, but it seems to be too heavily swayed that way now.

Well that is until profits go down the drain along with customer satisfaction. That is when the CEO and upper level management resign......shortly after receiving that very last fat bonus check.

We can all debate this to death but I can tell you this.....I have two different friends who have tolerated my rambles about how great WDW is for years and of course they both picked this year to be the first year they finally take the plunge and go. Both came back disgusted and said it was the worst, most aggravating, most expensive vacation they have ever gone on and will never return. All I could do was throw my arms up and say well I don't have a trip planned any time in the future as of now for the very same things.....I guess you missed the bus.

[kbean]

This thread started as a post about Disney giving out Fastpass tickets for standby lines M&G and singalongs. Somewhere between the crying and whining, attractions was thrown into it. You people need to chill the heck out! Disney will never add fp to standby lines for rides. All this is is a temporary fix for something they didnt see coming. They knew it'd bring the crowds but not for 3 hour waits. So this is their way of fixing it until it passes. Its not disneys fault.

Its the fault of the parents who are afraid to say no to little Jimmy or Susie because they will throw a tantrum that the parents cant discipline. Who in their right mind wohld wait an hour for any character. As a kid, my kid would spend thousands to bring us every year to Disney to see the parks, rides, and what time would allow us to see. If I wanted to see something that had a three hour wait, my dad would say no. Too long, not here to stand in line for hours to see some ridiculous character. Yeah I'd be upset, but you move on. Shrug your shoulders and say sorry little Joey, but we arent here to wait that long just for one M&G.

The people are the problem!!! Remember, just say no. Your kid will live to see another disney day.

[RunDMV]

This thread started as a post about Disney giving out Fastpass tickets for standby lines M&G and singalongs. Somewhere between the crying and whining, attractions was thrown into it. You people need to chill the heck out! Disney will never add fp to standby lines for rides. All this is is a temporary fix for something they didnt see coming. They knew it'd bring the crowds but not for 3 hour waits. So this is their way of fixing it until it passes. Its not disneys fault.

Its the fault of the parents who are afraid to say no to little Jimmy or Susie because they will throw a tantrum that the parents cant discipline. Who in their right mind wohld wait an hour for any character. As a kid, my kid would spend thousands to bring us every year to Disney to see the parks, rides, and what time would allow us to see. If I wanted to see something that had a three hour wait, my dad would say no. Too long, not here to stand in line for hours to see some ridiculous character. Yeah I'd be upset, but you move on. Shrug your shoulders and say sorry little Joey, but we arent here to wait that long just for one M&G.

The people are the problem!!! Remember, just say no. Your kid will live to see another disney day.

"Crying and whining.". Stay classy.

[PirateLover]

Disney will never add fp to standby lines for rides. All this is is a temporary fix for something they didnt see coming.

:confused: But they are trying it out for Soarin' as well. How can you say they will never do it when they are, at this very moment, doing that exact thing? :confused:

[Imalismom]

Okay, I just got though all 5 pages of this post - I had been reading, and then stopped, and now just got caught up.

Yes, there are some very negative people in the world. Yes, there are some very positive people in the world. I try to be a mixture, but at times fail to either end.

Do I want Intercot to be all "Mary Poppins"? No, not really, so, it is good at times to see things though the "regular" glasses. If you look at my member number, you can tell I have been around for a LONG time, but I do not post a whole whole bunch.

When I do post - it is to help someone out, or to ask a question. But, at times, I do just give my personal opinion on something, and this is one of them.

I went to WDW in June. I am one that usually went over Christmas (Dec 19th to Jan 2nd), so I know about crowds and long lines. In June of 2014 I experienced lines longer than I cared to wait in, so I did not. Did I complain? Yes, but to the people that counted. I wrote a letter to the corporation. Perhaps other people have also done this. Why do I think this?

WDW is trying out a fix. As an adult, do you ever try something and discover that either it did work (you keep on doing it) or it did not work (you stop doing it).

If it did not work, then you probably try something else.

In the corporate IT world, they have beta testing that the whole corporation might not see. At WDW, they do not have this luxury.

So, although I might not like what they are doing, at least they ARE trying at the moment.
If I don't like what they are trying, I might come to a place like Intercot and see what others think - maybe I am the only one that does not like it. If I am not, then I will once again take pen and paper in hand (okay, Microsoft Word and printer), and let WDW know what I think.

If you have a complaint, then offer up a solution. I am currently a teacher, and I tell my kids all the time, if you don't like something, then before you complain to me, you better have a solution to offer also. I might not "use" their solution, but hopefully I am teaching them something in the process.

So, to make a long reply short:

WDW, I do not like your FP+. I do not like your paper solution. My solution is to perhaps, look at what you had before that WAS somewhat successful, and look at how that worked, and see what you can do to get back to the "work-ability" of that. Please let us (the paying public), know what you are doing, so that we can know you are working to a solution. Communication here is the big thing.

Now, as a moderator, please, remember that we are a family, and that family might argue, but we do not call names, or hit below the belt - in fact, we don't hit at all. We let people have their opinion, and we respect it for what it is, an opinion.

I know return you to your topic....

[yankeesfan123]

Yes, let's just remember that this is/was a test to attempt to fix an issue. That's all it was.

[seanyred]

I think for those of you who are outraged over this should either do one of two things or both. Write letters to the appropriate people so your voice is at least heard or just stop going. I just don't understand all the ranting and insisting that your opinion is the right and the only true fact. A good discussion should be able to be heard from both sides and not just tell everyone else they are wrong.

The topic of capacity has come up often. This is how I view this issue.
MK: Just had completed New Fantasyland to specifically address capacity. Did it do enough maybe not but it was a major expansion.

EPCOT: Desperately needs increase in capacity. In all honestly they could even get away with leaving World Showcase alone and just fixing up/adding in Future World.

DHS: Again needs a capacity increase. I have a 10 day trip coming up and only plan on 1.5 days there. I hope the rumored major Star Wars expansion is what will happen.

AK: This park has capacity issues as well, but with the Avatar expansion and the new night time show, plus Kilimanjaro night experiences. It seems to me that this is being addressed.


That being said I do think that in the last 5 years TDO has seemed to slow the attraction growth process down. I'm sure the economy has something do with it 5 years ago. But if their profits are increasing I think it is fair to expect TDO to go back to building attractions at much quicker than they have been recently.

[MrPeetrie]

Okay, I just got though all 5 pages of this post - I had been reading, and then stopped, and now just got caught up.

Yes, there are some very negative people in the world. Yes, there are some very positive people in the world. I try to be a mixture, but at times fail to either end.

Do I want Intercot to be all "Mary Poppins"? No, not really, so, it is good at times to see things though the "regular" glasses. If you look at my member number, you can tell I have been around for a LONG time, but I do not post a whole whole bunch.

When I do post - it is to help someone out, or to ask a question. But, at times, I do just give my personal opinion on something, and this is one of them.

I went to WDW in June. I am one that usually went over Christmas (Dec 19th to Jan 2nd), so I know about crowds and long lines. In June of 2014 I experienced lines longer than I cared to wait in, so I did not. Did I complain? Yes, but to the people that counted. I wrote a letter to the corporation. Perhaps other people have also done this. Why do I think this?

WDW is trying out a fix. As an adult, do you ever try something and discover that either it did work (you keep on doing it) or it did not work (you stop doing it).

If it did not work, then you probably try something else.

In the corporate IT world, they have beta testing that the whole corporation might not see. At WDW, they do not have this luxury.

So, although I might not like what they are doing, at least they ARE trying at the moment.
If I don't like what they are trying, I might come to a place like Intercot and see what others think - maybe I am the only one that does not like it. If I am not, then I will once again take pen and paper in hand (okay, Microsoft Word and printer), and let WDW know what I think.

If you have a complaint, then offer up a solution. I am currently a teacher, and I tell my kids all the time, if you don't like something, then before you complain to me, you better have a solution to offer also. I might not "use" their solution, but hopefully I am teaching them something in the process.

So, to make a long reply short:

WDW, I do not like your FP+. I do not like your paper solution. My solution is to perhaps, look at what you had before that WAS somewhat successful, and look at how that worked, and see what you can do to get back to the "work-ability" of that. Please let us (the paying public), know what you are doing, so that we can know you are working to a solution. Communication here is the big thing.

Now, as a moderator, please, remember that we are a family, and that family might argue, but we do not call names, or hit below the belt - in fact, we don't hit at all. We let people have their opinion, and we respect it for what it is, an opinion.

I know return you to your topic....

OFF TOPIC REPLY: I loved your response. You remind me of all the good teachers I had growing up. (I wish there were more like you today.)

[Goes4FastPass]

I really have no idea why some on here post, when all you write is negative, and you know who you are. I LOVE Disney, and I come here because of that, why you post so often I have no idea, except maybe you work for Universal, but other than that, no idea.
Here's a concept: It's possible to LOVE Disney without loving every new thing they try. Is there ANY Disney fan on earth who wants every moment of their Disney Park day to be dictated by a grid of FPs and ADRs? Did you hear the one about what did the guy do after spending a week at WDW? He went on vacation.

[RunDMV]

I think for those of you who are outraged over this should either do one of two things or both. Write letters to the appropriate people so your voice is at least heard or just stop going. I just don't understand all the ranting and insisting that your opinion is the right and the only true fact. A good discussion should be able to be heard from both sides and not just tell everyone else they are wrong.
.

What makes you think that people havent done both of those???? Ive written and called....and i have refused to go back.

describing our legitmated complaints as "ranting and raving" is a tad insulting, dont you think....unless you have a different definition of the generally accepted definiton of rant and rave.

[RunDMV]

(Well, I hate to play the Tiny Tim card again, but that's been my experience, and I've been having fun playing with my "virtual vacation" for the last month.
Transportation's more time-consuming for me, and I only have six-and-a-half days with no park-hopping, so I have to know where I am on each day...As I don't really have much time to make backup plans.
Although I have left a few nights open for pool, movie, DD and resort supper, but that all depends on the September movie schedule.)

Listening to the tone of the complaints--who want to use one unexpectedly unsuccessful paper-FP stopgap as proof that the park's a mess and the place has gone to heck in a hand basket, and they just want to shake us down for our money, etc.--just because a few people couldn't get their Frozen or Soarin' fix, just brings up my old Usenet geezer days on rec.arts.disney.parks (the second friendliest Disney-fan community on the Net. :D )

This was around the time when Howie's Angels--oh, ask a longtime fan to tell you THAT story sometime--was making a rather disturbing fan-entitlement pest of themselves, literally scalping Cindy's Breakfast reservations (back when you had to call in on the phone at 6am like a radio DJ contest) under assumed names.
Being a member of that closed cult-of-fandom meant sending out pixie dust to each other, and sycophantically thanking the very dangerously narcissistic webmaster for their child's magical experience...But once in a while, they would try to come over to RADP, tell us of the wonderful service they'd found, and we would Jiminy-Cricket them that what they were doing was wrong, and unfair to the other guests, and possibly borderline illegal, and that the Disney experience was about making things as friendly for the other guests as for yourself or your kids.
The idea of why we didn't think it was just as wonderful was hard for them to accept, but once pushed to the edge, the true colors came out: Not unlike the Star Trek episode, the "angel" would soon smugly brag about how they had "beaten the system" and we hadn't, and when cornered, they would suddenly lash out with "Well, why are you on THEIR side anyway? The park is going to heck anyway, the way they've been jacking up the prices on us, they deserve to have someone finally stick it to them where it hurts, etc.!"
(And then we all got to righteously turn our back on them, like the last scene of 12 Angry Men... :humph: )

If you've seen it, it's a part of fandom you can't un-see. This may have been back in the "old days" of running marathons for paper FP's, and hanging on the phone for dining reservations, but there's a point at which "getting yours" for that perfect family vacation starts becoming war, and war only fosters negative hostility and resentment. It needs an enemy to beat the pulp out of, before it can feel better.
Everyone says "Oh, it's that other greedy mom-from-hell fan, not me!", but the minute you start blaming "the management" for not giving you What You Want, it starts bringing up the question of how badly you wanted it in the first place.

:confused:

[NJGIRL]

And this situation is exactly why we have no plans to go back to Disney any time soon. I'm not saying that we will never be back, but I don't want to go until they get their act together. My hard earned vacation dollars are not going toward their never ending "trail periods". IMO they have made a trip to the theme parks so overly planned and complicated that it's not relaxing to me anymore.

We have been to Disney so many times that we don't need to see every attraction each visit BUT the reason we visit the theme parks is to go on attractions. Personally I don't spend money to stroll the parks or people watch. I can do that at my local city park for free.

I think they are digging themselves into a deeper hole each time they try to make our visit "more enjoyable" with all of their rules for getting onto an attraction and the over planning you have to do now.

[Mrs Bus Driver]

:confused:
Glad to know it's not just me :mickey:

[Terra]

This thread started as a post about Disney giving out Fastpass tickets for standby lines M&G and singalongs. Somewhere between the crying and whining, attractions was thrown into it. You people need to chill the heck out! Disney will never add fp to standby lines for rides. All this is is a temporary fix for something they didnt see coming. They knew it'd bring the crowds but not for 3 hour waits. So this is their way of fixing it until it passes. Its not disneys fault.

Its the fault of the parents who are afraid to say no to little Jimmy or Susie because they will throw a tantrum that the parents cant discipline. Who in their right mind wohld wait an hour for any character. As a kid, my kid would spend thousands to bring us every year to Disney to see the parks, rides, and what time would allow us to see. If I wanted to see something that had a three hour wait, my dad would say no. Too long, not here to stand in line for hours to see some ridiculous character. Yeah I'd be upset, but you move on. Shrug your shoulders and say sorry little Joey, but we arent here to wait that long just for one M&G.

The people are the problem!!! Remember, just say no. Your kid will live to see another disney day.
For the most part this is my opinion of it all as well.
I myself would love to see A&E for example. And my children. However, I will NOT wait in that long of a line. There are times I will ask my children if they want to wait X amount of time for X thing. A couple of times they have, a couple of times they have passed.

But you are so right. It is we the customers that make hte choice to wait or not. Thus increasing lines times.
Just like [general] you don't *have* to plan every moment. I know people complain about it. But truly, you don't have to make FP and ADRs. You *can* "take your chances*. I realize I live close and that makes a difference
. That said, I've gotten into some of the "big" restaurants on whim [within a day or so, even same day].
So I guess in some ways, I'm not very compassionate for lack of a better word, to the complaining on all the long waits and planning out.

[DonaldDuck1117]

You can disagree.. Doesn't mean you are right... And doesn't mean the articles you read are right... The numbers tell a different story.. As does Disney's own words in their SEC filings...

Yep, this isn't anything new... This has been talked about plenty of times... Already knew they had this as a plan... However, the way they want to carry this out is backwards... Instead of targeting the people who may not spend a lot and maybe entice them to spend a little more, they are looking to target the already big spenders...

Already knew this and discussed this as well. Nothing new here either... All I got to say about that is, CMs, kiss your jobs bye bye...

Since when is it a good thing for more Americans to be out of work?

We know why Magic Bands were created... We have discussed it thousands of times... I never said they were created for the sole purpose of increasing park spending.. I did, however, see the defenders of the bands and NextGen state as much...

I say they aren't working cause they aren't... Rasulo's own words, regarding not just the bands, but this My Magic Plus in general was to the effect: the more we force you to plan ever minute of your trip, the more we force you to stay on property which will then equal you spending more money with us... Too bad that isn't working...

As far as my hatred for magic bands, did you bother to read my observations and thoughts from October? Or did you ignore it completely... I ask cause I stated I had no issues or no problems with the bands working... And I have no issues with the bands in general.. I DO have issues with NextGen and the cost associated with it...

And you can disagree but it doesn't mean you are right. The article I read was from the Montly Fool, and from everything they spoke about, along with their interviews it is clear the bands are working and they are only going to get better for the company. BTW I do highly enjoy your rumor posts :number1:

I didn't have any problems setting up my bands and I never had to call Disney to get anything fixed. I was able to do everything from either the app or the website, and just set up everything for my parents' trip in November-again with no problems.

Now back to this return ticket nonsense-Disney tried something and it didnt work. However, I don't know why they thought this would go over well. Sometimes they try to do too much. Sometimes it's ok to just have people be able to wait for the attraction they want to experience. Leave it to each party if they want to wait however long for an attraction. If they want to wait 5 hours to meet A&E, hey more power to yah it's your vacation :mickey:

What they need is a well done permanent Frozen attraction, and preferably one that doesn't take 3 years to build and open :secret:

[DonaldDuck1117]

Because that's assuming Frozen will be around in 3 years. ;)

(Was catching up with some old 90's Disney movies last week, and was joking about the plans to make a Frozen Broadway musical, maybe by '17:
They've done things like that before, you know--A stage musical of a new movie that's fresh out of the theaters, maybe not around long enough to be a generational classic, but still a hot property of the moment with fans, based on the wild phenomenal success of its Oscar-winning soundtrack, how could that not be a smash hit? Well, if it happened to be "Tarzan"... :razz: )

We've gotten temporary attractions like at DHS, because even the park is kind of exchanging a knowing glance with the super-fans, saying "Look, you know it, and we know it, and nobody wants to admit it, BUT..."

Your movie doesn't go on to make over a Billion dollars then gets forgotten 3 years later. We all still love Little Mermaid, Beauty & The Beast, Aladdin, and Lion King.

I didnt even know they made a Tarzan musical. I see that it only ran for a little over a year, but then again, the movie itself didnt blow the box office away making roughly 171 million. But Disney had a flop with it on broadway, but they also had smash hits with B&B and Lion King.

[DizneyFreak2002]

And you can disagree but it doesn't mean you are right. The article I read was from the Montly Fool

You got your info from Motley Fool? Ok, enough said... Sorry, Motley Fool is NOT reliable in any sort of way...

No offense, but you better better sources when trying to tell someone they are wrong... I know my sources, Motley Fool isn't one...

It is one thing to base your opinion on fact... But you are basing it on unreliable information from a blog... That is enough for me to understand why you are misinformed...

:)

[DonaldDuck1117]

There is nothing wrong with the Montly Fool.

Agree to disagree at this point.

[DizneyFreak2002]

There is nothing wrong with the Montly Fool.

Agree to disagree at this point.
There is everything wrong with Motley Fool...

Not trying to give you a hard time, but before you form an opinion and try to discredit someone, get real facts from real legit sources...

[Imalismom]

Okay - remember an opinion is an opinion, and we need to respect it. I don't think I need to say it again.

1. Opinion A. Motley fool is okay.
2. Opinion B. Motley fool is not okay.

Both are opinions that many have.

It you want to discuss it more - take it to a private message - not in this topic.

I now return you to your local topic of the paper fast passes and the heads up that it may or may not still be happening at WDW.