Fast pass plus....why?

[andypooh]

Can anyone tell me why Disney felt the need to revamp the entire FP system? I thought the current system worked quite well. It seems the new system is more complicated and requires a lot more planning before your vacation. Is this making the overall Disney experience a better one? Thanks

[DizneyRox]

1. Alter Fastpass system
2. ????
3. Profit

[ftwildernesskid]

Believe it or not, after reading so many posts recenty about fastbpass + I was going to post this identical thread. I also wondered if Disney ever commented on how this new system is supposed to be an improvement over the original fastpass system. It really boggles my mind.

[faline]

At this point, I suspect there are folks in Disney management who are asking these same questions.

[Pirate Granny]

Ah, but the $$$ already spent to make the system will be the trump card...whether it is good for the customers is not considered.

[baldburke]

The world is going paperless! Think of all the trees they're saving by not making all those little 1.5" x 1.5" squares anymore!

[Middle of the Map]

Believe it or not, after reading so many posts recenty about fastbpass + I was going to post this identical thread.

Ditto.....

There has to be a reason besides money that drives Disney to make such a change.

What could it be?

[DisneyDadfromPittsburgh]

Doesn't sound any better to me. Just sounds like more work before going on a vacation to WDW.

[DizneyRox]

Ditto.....

There has to be a reason besides money that drives Disney to make such a change.

What could it be?
Actually, that's the ONLY reason Disney does much of what they do. Scheduling allows Disney to staff minimally^D^D^D^D^D^D^D^D^D appropriately to minimize administrative waste. Same thing with dining, etc. When they know or can control crowd flow, they can staff accordingly. System improvements are most likely capitolizable (taxed differently), where salary is not. Automation is good for profits, people on staff is not...

Money, money, money money... MONEY!

[LVT]

Fast pass works well for early birds, planners willing to run around the park several times and people in the know.

That does leave out a lot of people for popular rides.
Soaring and TSM come to mind as points of contention for families that did not race to that park ahead of opening and grab up passes right at opening.
For instance: One person in a wheelchair and no one suitable to be a runner will make it not do-able under the current system. The passes go very fast some mornings.
I hope this new stuff works out.:D

[TheVBs]

Well, I haven't experienced it myself yet. But, after reading a few positive reports on the experience here, some of them from hardcore skeptics, it does seem to provide a good experience.

[faline]

The world is going paperless! Think of all the trees they're saving by not making all those little 1.5" x 1.5" squares anymore!

They could have eliminated the paper without changing the system that was in place. Enter park of your choice. Check out the fast pass return time of the ride of your choice. Touch band to kiosk. You will be eligible to get another fast pass at x'oclock. Return to ride at appointed time. Repeat as necessary - or hop to another park and repeat there.

[BrerGnat]

Disney is not immune to making really big, really expensive mistakes.

FP+ will probably go down as one of their finest performances in that area.

The Magic Band itself is cool. The RFID touch technology for hotel rooms, park admission, and paying for goods is very useful and seems to work pretty well in most circumstances.

But, all the FP+ reservation and "experiences" is just NOT good for the guest experience.

I often wish they would just quit while they are ahead sometimes.

[ibelieveindisneymagic]

The world is going paperless! Think of all the trees they're saving by not making all those little 1.5" x 1.5" squares anymore!

I was in line during my last trip, and a CM was saying EXACTLY that to a guest. She was complaining about something FP+ testing related and he kept telling her (over and over) that this was so they could be a more environmentally friendly company.

Geesh. :funny::rotfl:

[mickclub1955]

The future is this RFID technology. We are all going to be chipped in the near future in order to get healthcare, buy goods and services, etc. Disney is just getting ahead of the curb to implement the technology. Smooth transition from wristband to just wrist. They will not have to worry about non-transferable anymore. Everyone's information on one chip.

[Goofy4TheWorld]

Fast pass works well for early birds, planners willing to run around the park several times and people in the know.

That does leave out a lot of people for popular rides.
Soaring and TSM come to mind as points of contention for families that did not race to that park ahead of opening and grab up passes right at opening.
For instance: One person in a wheelchair and no one suitable to be a runner will make it not do-able under the current system. The passes go very fast some mornings.
I hope this new stuff works out.:D


Well, I haven't experienced it myself yet. But, after reading a few positive reports on the experience here, some of them from hardcore skeptics, it does seem to provide a good experience.

I concur. I had a really great experience with my recent test of FP+. I LOVED not having to join the stampede of crazy people (myself included) being marched to TSM at HS rope drop, and I loved the fact that I could ride Soarin' without having to visit EPCOT until the afternoon after my AK visit in the morning. I experienced all sorts of weird problems with technology at Disney, and actually very little of it was related to the new MDE system but instead problems with long-established systems for room access and charging privileges.

I am sure Disney will screw things up eventually (and the recent switch to only one E-ticket FP+ reservation really sours my outlook on FP+ right now) but the idea that having to plan a trip to Disney is not a new phenomenon and I approve the FP+ idea. Only once during my 6 day trip did I utilize the old FP system, and I literally got some FPv1 three times before I actually rode it because my kids were asleep (I gave the first two sets away). That was for Buzz at MK and I ran all the way from old Fantasyland over to Buzz twice for no other reason than to get a FP. It was while I was doing this that I realized how flawed the old system was with all of the park crisscrossing, especially after experiencing the new system of changing FP+ selections to the times I wanted, and making that change will being wherever in the World I wanted to be.

[PopPhan]

You know, I read all these threads with all the complaints about FP+ and remember, not so long ago, where people were crying to be able to get FP prior to getting to the park(s) so that they wouldn't miss out on their favorite ride/attraction.

No matter what the talking heads at Disney do, they cannot win.

I don't agree with the way they are testing FP+ at EPCOT, but I DO understand that it is a TEST. Whether or not this is the plan that gets implemented or not, it is something they are trying so that they might get the best "bang for their buck," while keeping the impact on non-testing guests to a minimum.

If those testing FP+ would be able to book all the "E-Ticket" rides, then where would that leave the non-testing guests? The AP holders? The 'day visitors'?

Complain all you want, but understand that you are NOT the only visitors to the parks on any one day.

This will be my last post on the subject until I return from my trip next month and have an opportunity to try it and critique it for myself.

[epceddie]

My wife and I tested the new wristbands on our trip Oct. 16-23 and we loved them. We were able to make three Fastpass picks at the MK, Epcot and DHS and that allowed us to enter each park in the afternoon, after taking our time for breakfast and a swim in the morning, and loved that kind of flexibility. Fastpass Plus is going to work great for us, because there are only two rides that we really have to use them for - Toy Story Mania and Soarin. We like to go to the parks, ride the attractions that we enjoy and then find a spot to sit, relax and people watch. We like planning in advance and Fastpass Plus is going to help us do that even better.

[Capt_redshirt]

Can anyone tell me why Disney felt the need to revamp the entire FP system? I thought the current system worked quite well. It seems the new system is more complicated and requires a lot more planning before your vacation. Is this making the overall Disney experience a better one? Thanks

The reason why they wanted to revamp aside with keeping up with technology has more to do with people abusing the system. with that paper card if your a few mins late (in some cases up to 30 mins late) CMs will let you slide. with the new system not so much. they will let you in if its a couple mins but really late well thats your loss. as for more planning i didn't see it. I planed FP+ for one park before hand. everything else i did day of and never had an issue. i suspect it will be the same when fully unveiled. Personally i didnt see half the complaints people were seeing at the parks. yes some of the popular rides have long waits but we already knew that. i found ways around it. to me it was a bigger inconvienence to go and bull rush to soarn or TMM to get a fp and guess what when there was no fp available they were still letting us sign up for FP+.

[spoiledraf]

I couldn't be happier about FP+ and the new magic bands. I'm on vacation. we get up around 8 or later, go to breakfast and then head to a park. We are not rope drop people. We have our favorite rides and now we know we will be able to enjoy them without either waiting in line for an hour plus or having to wait until 5:30 in the afternoon to use our FP-. The bands make it easier to use waterparks or pools. I don't have to worry about my KTW or wallet laying around. Now it's on my wrist. Some say it takes too long to set up all the fast pass times on line. How much time does it take to get to DHS 45 minutes before rope drop, run to the FP kiosk only to stand in line and wait, and then get a fast pass for 7:00 pm??? Come n now. Wouldn't you rather pick 11:30 am on your computer 45 days before you get to the park and get an extra hours sleep on your vacation?
Too much planning??? Balony. That is part of the experience in going to Disney! Otherwise none of us would be on these boards every day trying to find out every detail!
The times, they are a changing! I worked at UPS for over 40 years. All records were kept on paper when I started. Now virtually nothing is on paper. Most of us didn't like change but in the end, if we had to go back to paper it would have been life altering. Technology is taking over and yes a lot of it has to do with corporate planning and that dirty word, profit. Those who embrace the changes will prosper and those who want to live in the past will unfortunately get left behind. My advice is get on the bus or get left standing in the rain!

[seanyred]

You know, I read all these threads with all the complaints about FP+ and remember, not so long ago, where people were crying to be able to get FP prior to getting to the park(s) so that they wouldn't miss out on their favorite ride/attraction.

No matter what the talking heads at Disney do, they cannot win.

I don't agree with the way they are testing FP+ at EPCOT, but I DO understand that it is a TEST. Whether or not this is the plan that gets implemented or not, it is something they are trying so that they might get the best "bang for their buck," while keeping the impact on non-testing guests to a minimum.

If those testing FP+ would be able to book all the "E-Ticket" rides, then where would that leave the non-testing guests? The AP holders? The 'day visitors'?

Complain all you want, but understand that you are NOT the only visitors to the parks on any one day.

This will be my last post on the subject until I return from my trip next month and have an opportunity to try it and critique it for myself.


I agree with everything you said here. I won't be experiencing FastPass+ until next fall so its hard for me to judge or get that worked up about. I do remember when people on these very threads were wanting to pre book Fastpasses but now it seems people have forgotten what the wished for. This change is coming whether folks like it or not. I still enjoy going to WDW so I'll just figure out a way to adapt.

[SOTB]

Hello all.

I haven't been on the board in awhile (since 2009) but perusing the threads of the FP+ I can't help but want to chime in. IMO, this is a fairly poor decision on the part of Disney and while they might not see an initial impact in visitors, I think they might see it with regards to longer term.

Here's my thinking, bear with me. And please keep in mind that there are a number of suppositions that I am allowing for that may not be correct.

First off, I am presuming that the majority of DW visitors are Americans. Sure, there are a bunch of visitors who aren't but I'm guessing that most are. Most Americans (like 50% or more) earn less than $50k per year. Will American families have the ability to pay for a future (if true) FP+ system in which you pay for the opportunity to get a FP? And if not, will this not essentially mean that the average visitor (assuming that these are those Americans who earn less than $50k per year) will stare with hatred at those who skip merrily to the front of their line, and then return home actually deciding to never return? As well as tell all of their friends and family?

Next, who wants to plan a ride 3-6 months in advance? Obviously from reading this and other threads, there are people whom are cool with this concept -- but I'm not one of them. Heck, I'm fairly unhappy that I can no longer walk to a park and make dining reservations, but rather I have to do that months in advance, as well. The option, some will ask? Stand in line or worse, not get on the ride? Maybe -- but the FP system that has been in existence seems to have been a pretty decent combo of walk-on and planning. If you didn't want to cross the park to get a FP, then you took the chances that the line would be miserable for a walk on. If you did cross the park, then you did so understanding that your FP was the one you got for the next couple of hours and by crossing the park, you might have been giving up space you would have covered standing in line as a walk on somewhere else. Give and take. It was (is) a fine system.

Thirdly, how many of us have gone to a park and the ride was shut down -- weather, mechanics, whatever? So your glorious planning months in advance, umm -- LOL -- all gone. Sure, now you get a new FP -- with all of this planning months in advance, are there spaces available to walk onto the ride you want, even with the CM-issued FP?

I had not heard of this thing (FP+) until this morning. I was completely and blissfully ignorant. My family and one other are scheduled to arrive this Thanksgiving week (the Monday prior) and we're booked at the Dolphin. I'm now wondering if my stay at the Dolphin would qualify me for a FP+.

I mentioned this FP+ thing to the wife this morning. We both have been going to DW for over 20 years, at least once per year -- sometimes as many as 3X per year. I think it could be stated that as such, we're somewhat loyal customers. Still, both of us, as much as we enjoy DW -- immediately came to the same conclusion that this is likely to be our last trip in a very, very long time. It isn't the inconvenience that is irking us so much -- it is the fact that this reeks more and more of a class system being set up at DW, and the thing I liked about DW was that once you paid your ticket, you were in and able to use whatever ride just like any other park visitor. I found that to be decidedly cool. Now I think I'm seeing that a line will be drawn -- and maybe the magic people at Disney marketing have done the numbers and know that my suppositions are wrong. And maybe they know that DW will make lots of money even without me. Oh well....

[spoiledraf]

Hello all.

I haven't been on the board in awhile (since 2009) but perusing the threads of the FP+ I can't help but want to chime in. IMO, this is a fairly poor decision on the part of Disney and while they might not see an initial impact in visitors, I think they might see it with regards to longer term.

Here's my thinking, bear with me. And please keep in mind that there are a number of suppositions that I am allowing for that may not be correct.

First off, I am presuming that the majority of DW visitors are Americans. Sure, there are a bunch of visitors who aren't but I'm guessing that most are. Most Americans (like 50% or more) earn less than $50k per year. Will American families have the ability to pay for a future (if true) FP+ system in which you pay for the opportunity to get a FP? And if not, will this not essentially mean that the average visitor (assuming that these are those Americans who earn less than $50k per year) will stare with hatred at those who skip merrily to the front of their line, and then return home actually deciding to never return? As well as tell all of their friends and family?

Next, who wants to plan a ride 3-6 months in advance? Obviously from reading this and other threads, there are people whom are cool with this concept -- but I'm not one of them. Heck, I'm fairly unhappy that I can no longer walk to a park and make dining reservations, but rather I have to do that months in advance, as well. The option, some will ask? Stand in line or worse, not get on the ride? Maybe -- but the FP system that has been in existence seems to have been a pretty decent combo of walk-on and planning. If you didn't want to cross the park to get a FP, then you took the chances that the line would be miserable for a walk on. If you did cross the park, then you did so understanding that your FP was the one you got for the next couple of hours and by crossing the park, you might have been giving up space you would have covered standing in line as a walk on somewhere else. Give and take. It was (is) a fine system.

Thirdly, how many of us have gone to a park and the ride was shut down -- weather, mechanics, whatever? So your glorious planning months in advance, umm -- LOL -- all gone. Sure, now you get a new FP -- with all of this planning months in advance, are there spaces available to walk onto the ride you want, even with the CM-issued FP?

I had not heard of this thing (FP+) until this morning. I was completely and blissfully ignorant. My family and one other are scheduled to arrive this Thanksgiving week (the Monday prior) and we're booked at the Dolphin. I'm now wondering if my stay at the Dolphin would qualify me for a FP+.

I mentioned this FP+ thing to the wife this morning. We both have been going to DW for over 20 years, at least once per year -- sometimes as many as 3X per year. I think it could be stated that as such, we're somewhat loyal customers. Still, both of us, as much as we enjoy DW -- immediately came to the same conclusion that this is likely to be our last trip in a very, very long time. It isn't the inconvenience that is irking us so much -- it is the fact that this reeks more and more of a class system being set up at DW, and the thing I liked about DW was that once you paid your ticket, you were in and able to use whatever ride just like any other park visitor. I found that to be decidedly cool. Now I think I'm seeing that a line will be drawn -- and maybe the magic people at Disney marketing have done the numbers and know that my suppositions are wrong. And maybe they know that DW will make lots of money even without me. Oh well....

Welcome to the debate! As you mentioned at the beginning, some, myself included, like the new system. As to those making less than $50,000 a year, I'm missing the point. How are they treated different. The biggest assumption you make is that it will be a pay to play plan in the future. Although most major theme parks are or have already gone to that system, could it be that Disney is attempting to avoid that step by spending $1,000,000,000 (an estimate that has been tossed around) to implement this system. And in tern avoid the very class system you mention. Would you rather pay extra for that fast pass option like they do at Universal or br totally inconvenienced and actually plan your days a month in advance? I'm not sure you realize you only get three choices per day and only at one park so that leaves a LOT of unreserved FP+ to go around. Also keep in mind we are still in a test mode and may be for quite some time. I don't believe, as some do, the regular FP kiosks are going away. day visitors will still need those and since we are making certain assumptions, I will assume those will stay. If you hop, you can use those at a second park, perhaps for late extra magic hours.

As to planning 3-6 months ahead, presently you can only pick FP 45 days out. But I see your point. Assuming they keep the FP kiosks, you can still do it the old fashion way. As mentioned earlier they limit how many you can get so with very few exceptions, you will still be able to ride what you want if you get there at rope drop. You seem to believe everyone can run from one end of the park to the other. I for one can not. FP+ makes for a level playing field.

Thirdly, if the ride breaks down, you are in the same boat with the new or old system, although I was never offered a new fast pass for a different ride under the old system. Just come back when it's running provided you are still in the park.

And lastly, you say you may not return because of the changes. My son and his family hate the lines and therefor don't want to go to Disney anymore. I told him about the new FP system. He ready to go with us ( ain't happening!). So it seems if you decide not to go anymore, there are likely a large group of people like myself and my son who have dreamed of a system like this and are willing to replace you.

25 more days until my first Christmas season visit!!! FP+, here we come!

[mickclub1955]

I had not heard of this thing (FP+) until this morning. I was completely and blissfully ignorant. My family and one other are scheduled to arrive this Thanksgiving week (the Monday prior) and we're booked at the Dolphin. I'm now wondering if my stay at the Dolphin would qualify me for a FP+.

....

The Swan and the Dolphin are doing FP+ testing now. If you go to their website it will explain how it works for you.

[CleveSJM]

Data. The more data and better programming Disney has, the better they can try to improve the guest experience. Once they get new FP machines in the park, that can read the RFID bands, the system will get better. I expect they'll let you pre-pick one "E" ride a day and two lesser rides. The system will deduct those from the available FP counts at the new machines. Then the bands will work like regular old cards for the regular remaining Fastpasses.

The big improvement will be you can link all your group to the band and have the "runner" get the entire groups Fastpasses with just their band. Of course, they need to get new FP machines out there. That'll take some time. The beta/rollout time we are in now is the issue.

[DizneyRox]

I won't be surprised when we see "Want more fastpasses? Add 1 more FP per day for only $5 per person, 3 more for $10, or unlimited FP selections for only $15 per day!!" while booking vacations.

Or as I said way back (and might have been said before me) now that everything is tied in one place, won't be a stretch to tier all this under the accomodations selected. 5 FPs for Deluxe, 4 for moderates, 3 for value.

This was all done to generate or enhance some revenue stream. We just aren't sure when/where it's going to hit. It's going to hit somewhere though.

A number of years ago, I heard rumors of them going back to the old E-Ticket type system. This is pretty close!

[Tekneek]

I am at WDW right now. Overall the bands work well. FP+ was adequate when I scheduled our original selections. Making changes here, especially when they separated attractions into groups, has been a downer. The inability to use it at more than one park per day is also a negative.

It is not as horrible as I expected it to be, but still not as good as it could be. Instead of making FP better for all, it seems really inferior for all parks besides MK.

[Tekneek]

1 time a ride was down and we were sent an email offering FP+ for another attraction (although none of the options made any sense - as none really needed FP). An FP+ for any attraction would have been more useful, and delivering that in the app would be better than email.

The other time a ride went down after we were already in the queue. Had to visit guest relations for that resolution.

[Ms. Mode]

I have been reading the negative comments for months now and when it came time to schedule our FP+ options I realized very quickly that NOT planning and scheduling everything to the minute on our next trip to WDW will be the way we operate.

If there are one or two rides in a park that are on our "Must Do" list we will schedule the FP+ and all others will be in the "Maybe we will and maybe we won't" column.

Either way I will be in WDW and that's my happy place. It will all work out. :thumbsup:

[dnickels]

I don't think I'm going out on a limb to say that the main goal of FP+ is to make more money for Disney. The more data they have the more money they can make using that data. With the ADR system, Disney knows exactly how much demand each restaurant has, and therefore exactly how much staff and food they will need. With FP+ the more people that Disney knows will be at an exact location in an exact park at an exact time the more they can adjust staffing levels.

The more they know about your purchase habits and locations the more they can entice you to buy more stuff, think of special offer codes being sent to your phone as you pass by a gift shop or approach a food stand. In the same ways that Google and Facebook tailor ads to your browsing habits, Disney wants to do the same thing.

Disney is pouring the (reported) $1 Billion + into this thing because they think they can make more than that back in additional revenue from guests, not to save a few people from having to rush over to the FP machines and back.

[PirateLover]

I don't think I'm going out on a limb to say that the main goal of FP+ is to make more money for Disney. The more data they have the more money they can make using that data. With the ADR system, Disney knows exactly how much demand each restaurant has, and therefore exactly how much staff and food they will need. With FP+ the more people that Disney knows will be at an exact location in an exact park at an exact time the more they can adjust staffing levels.

The more they know about your purchase habits and locations the more they can entice you to buy more stuff, think of special offer codes being sent to your phone as you pass by a gift shop or approach a food stand. In the same ways that Google and Facebook tailor ads to your browsing habits, Disney wants to do the same thing.

Disney is pouring the (reported) $1 Billion + into this thing because they think they can make more than that back in additional revenue from guests, not to save a few people from having to rush over to the FP machines and back.
:exactly: Yup. My in-laws are there right now. SIL said she feels like she's back in her college dorm because the band gets scanned when you leave and come back to the hotel. Disney wants to be big brother and know where you are at all times to make more revenue off of your spending habits. That is what this is all about.

[Gator]

The future is this RFID technology. We are all going to be chipped in the near future in order to get healthcare, buy goods and services, etc. Disney is just getting ahead of the curb to implement the technology. Smooth transition from wristband to just wrist. They will not have to worry about non-transferable anymore. Everyone's information on one chip.

Oh great! So Disney is the anti-christ.;)

[Goes4FastPass]

This whole bit with Premiere Attractions (an E-ticket, if you please) and other parts of this is about distributing guests across the resort to keep as many guests as possible in the realm of purple road signs for as long as possible.

It's going to become difficult for a Florida resident annual passholder to visit the MK spontaneously for a day when all of the E-Ticket attractions are already booked open to close.

I remember once waiting to be seated at the Crystal Palace standing near the podium as the cast member there had to tell family after family, “We’re booked solid all day and today was booked solid weeks ago.” It’s going to be that way with Toy Story Mania and Test Track and Soarin’ and Seven Dwarves Mine Train – those attractions will be booked solid months in advance.

I feel sorry for the “newbie” families who will save their money, take time off from work and travel great distances to wait in ‘standby’ lines for hours and return home and tell their friends, “Never again.”

WDW is a vast resort with a jillion sights and sounds but not nearly enough total Test Track spaces per day to serve the number of guests that go through the gates.

Some guests will be satisfied with being told “You can have ONE premiere experience per day and your other choices are Captain EO, Gran Fiesta Tour…

At it only gets worse. FP+ parade viewing?

"Where did you go after you came back from Walt Disney World?" "We went on vacation."

[Tekneek]

WDW will be more for adults, who can find lots of other things to do, and small children who can't ride the "big rides" anyway.

[ILoveLegos]

I kind of reminds me of the "people" on the scooters in the movie Wally ... Blue is the new red, ooohhhHHH! FP is the new FP+ :( I agree with others, it just sounds like the old E-tickets to me.:secret:

[ILoveLegos]

Oops, my 5 nieces & nephews skyped me from half way across the country - just as I pushed submit button and before I actually "proof read" my last entry for typos. Unfortunately I made plenty of them. :secret:

I meant to type: "It kind of reminds me ..." and Wall-E instead of Wally :blush:

Sorry! :-o

[SOTB]

Well, we went last week and here are my thoughts;

As indicated in the post above -- we stayed at the Dolphin, so we didn't have immediate access to the FP+ system. There were a total of 7 of us, 4 adults and 3 teens. We used parkhoppers, the three in my family used up our remaining 3 days of never expiring parkhoppers we bought I think a year ago.

I'll try and avoid commentary to the trip, as no one in this thread is seeking a trip report. But generally the crowds were mild, and the weather a little chilly and windy at first -- its possible that had something to do with park attendence, I'm not sure. It rained our last day, off and on, but nothing hard or lengthy. The only park hours of importance to this report was the MK closing at 0100.

Our first day we went to Animal Kingdom, its usually there or HS that we head to in the mornings. Upon arrival, I split off from the main party and scooted over to Expedition Everest to grab FPs (with fingers crossed). The rest of the group went to the African Safari ride. I found the FP kiosks empty and grabbed the FPs. I then went over to the Safari ride and caught up with my group. With little to no crowds, things went well in the morning and we knocked out what we were hoping to -- Safari, Everest (twice, the standby line was pretty darned short), Countdown to -- err, Dinosaur, and Its a Bugs Life. FWIW, we all had the suspicion that the Bugs Life attraction had been toned down a little (in the seat effects), but we're not sure. Perhaps this has been discussed in other threads. The Dinosaur ride had some mechanical issues. Sad to see the maintenance problems we saw at the park, yet DW can dump a fortune into ****** new rides (Ariel's whatever) and FP+.

We cruised over to EPCOT right about 1100, I think. Upon arrival we had to make a decision for FPs, and everyone in the party was split for Test Track or Soarin -- it was decided I head to Test Track, so off I went. And here was the first intro to what we have in store for the future -- FPs were indeed avail -- but the actual ride would be until 2000. Hmm, with crowds this light, such a late ride time seemed strange. Oh wait -- I'm forgetting everyone who logged on 45 days ago to get their FPs. Wait a sec, Disney -- isn't this while FP+ thingy all about making it fair for those who show up and find it difficult to get FPs (what a CM commented to me)? So how again do families NOT reserving with Disney or at a DW resort, but instead showing up on a whim, get FPs? Oh right -- they're not as important as the other guests. LOL.

So after we get our FPs I hear that there is a booth set up in Innovations for Swan and Dolphin guests to work the FP+ magic. So we head over and the people manning the booth are very kind and proceed to get us FPs for Soarin and two other so-called "minor" rides. I forget what those rides were, but the thing that some of you already commented appears to be true -- Disney has decided that there are categories of rides and that one can only obtain one FP for the major category per day, per park. Yeah, that *****. See Disney now has FPs for practically every ride/attraction (or so it seems). And they lump in stuff that no one in their right mind would waste their limited FPs on -- but if you've never been to the parks, how would you know? How would you realize that you wasted one of your FPs on Spaceship Earth when you could have walked on easily just a few hours later in the afternoon? Sorry, I'm digressing. How did we get a FP to Test Track AND Soarin on the same day, same park? Because the FP+ system and the FP kiosks appear to not yet talk to each other. Work that while you can.

The group split up that evening and one half went to the hotel and the other to MK. The MK group reported no lines and they hit Splash Mtn, Big Thunder Mtn, Space Mtn and Peter Pan -- as well as Pirates of the Carribean (the latter has some mech issues).

On our second day we went to HS and I forget why we didn't get FPs upon park opening, but after a quick walkon for Tower of Terror, we went over to the Swan and Dolphin booth at the front of the park where we found that there were no FPs to be had for anything except two shows (the stunt shows). So we signed up and walked the park. We got to the Toy Story ride and I wished. I had taken a pic -- there were literally -- arms' distance apart -- 20-30 CMs all lined up in front of the ride blocking access. I suppose this might have been due to it being broken, I didn't ask -- but I did note that none of the FP kiosks were open, and this is only an hour after park opening. Something of note -- the CM who arranged our FP+s either didn't do it properly or the system didn't register the operation, as none of the FP+s were valid. Fortunately, we had gotten into the habit of taking a photo of the CM's FP+ screen and had messaged that photo to everyone in the party, which we showed the CMs at the attractions -- you could see that they didn't want to let us in, though. I wonder if the crowds had been larger if they would have simply smiled and told us tough luck. How neato would that be for a family who had made their FP+ reservations months in advance? Cool, huh? How about if they didn't have photos or other documentation of their FP+s?

No matter, we resolved to come again the next day and hit the Rock and Roller Coaster, as well as buy my wife a chili cone -- which she suddenly developed a sincere craving for.

We then went to EPCOT and for some reason, we simply did not bother with FPs. We also had dinner in the park and afterwards reserved viewing for the illuminations show. While there weren't many people in the park, it was still a very nice gesture on the part of a CM aquaintance and our group very much enjoyed the reserved area. Thank you to that CM.

We then went to MK and once again, completely ignored the FP concept due to the late hours and dwindling crowds.

On our final day, we indeed did grab FPs for the roller coaster at HS (from a kiosk), got the wife and daughter photos with characters and then retired to EPCOT for a relaxed taking in of what we had not yet (sans FPs, not necessary) and dinner in le Chefs de France. We then went to MK and once again hit it all up until I think right around 1230 where we ran through the rain to the bus.

All-in-all, we thoroughly enjoyed our trip. But we (the wife and I) came away with two thoughts.

First, the FP+ system blows. It penalizes people who don't pay to stay at a Disney resort and/or pay your vacation months ahead of time. Really Disney? Do you truly believe this is a smart idea? Plus, we have the impression that if you work at planning your day and actually walk your butt over to a kiosk to grab a new FP, then apparently Disney thinks this sort of behavior is not as desireable as sitting on your couch and picking and choosing online. Gee, shades of WALL-E.

Second, Disney is attacking the problem of long lines incorrectly. Instead of dumping $1b into a stupid online system for preregistering to ride an attraction, why not instead build more rides? And build rides the way they used to, not silly trains that carry you in front of a cartoon. Even the now gone Mr Toad's Wild Ride was far and away superior to what they are building now. Disney should be building new rides, not figuring out how to squeeze more on what is in existence.

In closing, it would be easy to take away from my post that we didn't enjoy our vacation. Not at all true. We didn't enjoy the FP+ thing, but through the dates/hours we visited the parks, FPs weren't even an issue. But the wife and I have decided we won't be going back. Its better to end on a high note, with great memories. When our daughter has children (10-15 years from now?), sure. Right now -- we think that the 25+ visits over the past 20 years is all Disney deserves -- further expenditure would require Disney looking at our needs and desires differently than they currently are. We're not stating Disney is wrong or bad or whatever -- just that we don't think we're they're focus any longer....

[MrPeetrie]

SOTB, first thank you for a very thorough report. We won't be returning until next Fall so hopefully, things will be worked out by then. I'm reserving judgment until then, but I have been very skeptical to this point for some of the exact same issues you've raised in the previous post.

My feeling is this: I have no problem with Disney implementing a system that will provide it with more revenue. In fact, I want them to. It makes them a healthier business and that allows them to expand and improve.

I have a HUGE problem, however, when these things come at the customer's expense. If FastPass+ enhances my vacation, then by all means, spend your R&D money and implement it. But if it comes at the expense of my enjoyment merely to procure more money from my pocket then that's where I have a problem.

I look at the Dining Plan as an example. It's billed as a guest convenience and for some I suppose it is. But look at the reality. Dining Plan was an attempt to draw more money from the guest and the cost is a lesser dining experience. When you go on vacation, you will budget your spending and bring that with you on vacation. Most, will stay within that budget. A large portion of that money is spent on food. Disney believed if you had that portion pre-paid, it's guests would still budget the same amount upon arrival. However that money would be now be free to be spent on merchandise. So if during a normal trip you budget say $3,000, with $1,200 for food, Disney hoped if you pre-paid the $1,200 in advance, you'd still bring $3,000 (or close to it) and spend additional money in the stores.

The bottom line is the Dining Plan has lessened the dining experience for the guests. The food has dropped as places rarely need to "compete" for the consumer's dollar. ADRs are nearly impossible to come by after 180 days, because since guests are paying for X number of sit-down meals, guests are reserving X number of sit-downs meals.

The Dining Plan is billed as a help to enhance the guest's experience; to help them budget their vacation. But we've all seen it's a cost-cutting measure that lessens the dining experience, and isn't a "Plus." My fear is the FastPass+ will ALSO be billed as a great enhancement, but will actually lessen the guest's experience in an attempt to grab more cash.

[Goes4FastPass]

I wish there was a way we, as Walt Disney World fans, could "help" WDW management do better for guests rather than this just being an internet kvetch fest.

I can rant about not going to WDW in 2014 but my grandchildren will miss Walt Disney World though I know Walt Disney World certainly won't miss us.

[JerseyDad]

Disney is not immune to making really big, really expensive mistakes.


....as seen in their purchase of 25,000 "fridges" that they had no business buying and then had to replace because someone didn't read the instructions!!



I wish there was a way we, as Walt Disney World fans, could "help" WDW management do better for guests rather than this just being an internet kvetch fest.

I can rant about not going to WDW in 2014 but my grandchildren will miss Walt Disney World though I know Walt Disney World certainly won't miss us.

....WDW in some manner, shape, or form, (aka: $$$$) ...WILL miss your presence in it's parks in 2014 ...as I do hope they miss mine (our Aug vacation there, the 11th in 10 yrs ...was our last ...we've decided). What I do wonder is ...how many of "us" not going back to WDW ...will make them sit up and take notice that they screwed up royally?

[Christine]

... he kept telling her (over and over) that this was so they could be a more environmentally friendly company.



Yet they ship their tiny wristbands in a large box via express which uses ++ fuel. But whatever. ;)

[Melanie]

Yet they ship their tiny wristbands in a large box via express which uses ++ fuel. But whatever. ;)

Ha! Amen.

[WiltonJohn]

I wish there was a way we, as Walt Disney World fans, could "help" WDW management do better for guests rather than this just being an internet kvetch fest.

There IS a way.

Write a formal letter to them.

I and a few others here have done it. It has resulted in long Disney-initiated phone conversations with Guest Services for many posting here that they have written letters. They are ASKING for feedback. I now have a direct line phone number to a specific service rep for the future.

I know from my conversation with the Guest Relations staff member that they DO have some folks monitor the various Disney forums. So all this "kvetching" is being seen.

But taking the time to write a physical letter and going to the bother to then mail it to them (I sent mine 'return receipt requested') shows a far more serious attitude about this matter than simply posting in forums.

Be specific and factual. Offer constructive thoughts for improvements. If you feel that something is "bad"... don't simply say it is bad... let them know how it makes you feel and how it negatively impacts your and your family's time at WDW. Just saying "that *****" is not useful, and it gains you no credibility in a business envoironment. Disney is a business. Treat your communications with them as such. Your words will go a lot further.

"Flaming rants" filled with profanities and overwelming use of negative words on places like this forum will tend to get discounted as coming from "oddballs". They need to feel like you are a part of the "mainstream".

Get you voice heard. It can't hurt.

best,

...................john

[Arielfan98]

Well I'm not a big fan of it either but it's already done with so no point in complaining now. Besides FP+ does become useful in rare exceptions like reservations for BOG.

[LVT]

I sort of think they should calibrate the number of passes per hour differently. The regular line should not be affected so much that it causes bad feelings.
The aim to make the fastpass seem instant is not reasonable. If it is very crowded and the regular line is 60 minutes, the fastpass line should then be 20-30. I would prefer proportional to the "screw the other guys".:secret:

[faline]

Well I'm not a big fan of it either but it's already done with so no point in complaining now.

Actually, there is a point in making opinions known. It is not listed as a done deal at this point. In fact, making it a done deal has been delayed and Disney is continuing to test the process and solicit feedback on the testing in progress.

[BrerGnat]

Actually, there is a point in making opinions known. It is not listed as a done deal at this point. In fact, making it a done deal has been delayed and Disney is continuing to test the process and solicit feedback on the testing in progress.

Exactly. It is FAR from a "done deal."

At this point, I have no trips planned to WDW and I have nothing to say to them on the matter as I have had no real experience with it, but if I did have a negative opinion after experiencing it, you bet I'd be writing a letter!

[SOTB]

But taking the time to write a physical letter and going to the bother to then mail it to them (I sent mine 'return receipt requested') shows a far more serious attitude about this matter than simply posting in forums.I agree.
Just saying "that *****" is not useful, and it gains you no credibility in a business envoironment. Disney is a business. Treat your communications with them as such. Your words will go a lot further.

"Flaming rants" filled with profanities and overwelming use of negative words on places like this forum will tend to get discounted as coming from "oddballs"....LOL, no profanities in my post -- only the presence of an overly-active PC-laden software. Yes, my word was censored -- no, it wasn't in the slightest bit profane. But, whatever -- I do agree with the requirement to speak the same language as the reader, if one wants clear communication to occur....

[1DisneyNut]

Yet they ship their tiny wristbands in a large box via express which uses ++ fuel. But whatever. ;)

I wonder if one of the geniuses ever took a moment to think about how many of those small, thin paper fastpasses they could make with just one of the boxes they ship the wrist bands in. Just one box would probably make more paper fastpasses than I would have ever used in a lifetime. Then you have the rubber and plastic the bands are made out of and the fuel for shipping you mentioned. I love these "environmentally friendly" ideas that don't take in account the big picture. lol

[Tekneek]

I love these "environmentally friendly" ideas that don't take in account the big picture. lol

Obviously the idea is you will be so impressed that you will keep using them again in the future. The bands are about more than FP+. FP+ is perhaps the weakest element of the new stuff.

[Gator]

Exactly. It is FAR from a "done deal."

At this point, I have no trips planned to WDW and I have nothing to say to them on the matter as I have had no real experience with it, but if I did have a negative opinion after experiencing it, you bet I'd be writing a letter!

Here's the problem. Right now, only a few people get to try FP-. So their reviews will be good because they're not competing with 30,000 other guests trying to get the same 60 day fast pass. Then with good reviews, they'll implement it, and that's when it all hits the fan. Will they take it away at that point? Of course not!!! It will be too late.

Disney will move forward with it and maybe even start charging more for extra premium fast passes and the like. It will turn the place where everyone now has equal oppurtunity at getting the same thing, and change it into a place where "he who has the gold rules". We'll all be left holding the memories of a once great idea where all people "who entered this happy place" were welcome as much as the next person, rich or poor. That seems to be the American story these days - shove it down our throats until it ruins the last remaining great ideals.

[thejens]

Here is a factor we may all be ignoring: the wristbands may be accessorized, at our cost (Disney's profit.) I am not against this; it is brilliant! We can now buy wrist band covers and "jewel" type pins to personalize them. How brilliant is that? Buy a ticket, then, pay more, willingly!!!!, to decorate your ticket!!!!

Just saying, I'll bet they figure out a way to make everyone happy re. the fast passes, but the accessorization of the band is smart business. I don't mean that in a snarky way (well, not totally.) What I mean is, let WDW create revenue opportunities, but let it be our option.

I truly hope that the new FP reservation system will continue to be tweaked to allow for maximum guest satisfaction/loyalty/repeat business and that the profits derive from more optional (from those able to indulge) add ons.

[DizneyRox]

I sort of think they should calibrate the number of passes per hour differently. The regular line should not be affected so much that it causes bad feelings.
The aim to make the fastpass seem instant is not reasonable. If it is very crowded and the regular line is 60 minutes, the fastpass line should then be 20-30. I would prefer proportional to the "screw the other guys".:secret:
This is EXACTLY what FP+ is aiming to do, but to Disney's benefit.

All attractions have a guest throughput. You can wiki many rides and find out what they are, but most rides can be adjusted to some extent by staffing levels (and a few other things), but staffing is the key here. Some rides are what they are (think omnimover rides). They have a set number of ride vehicles going at a set speed. This throughput also impacts the capacity of each park.

By forcing FP+, Disney can better predict the staffing they need on any given day, even any given hour. If they can't staff pirates at a certain level say between 12 and 3, Disney could systematically control the number of fast passes given during that time. Sure there's still standby, but once line lengths reach a certain point, that takes care of itself.

Dining works the same way... When a restaurant is booked months in advance, Disney then knows how much food they need and how much staff they need to push those people through. This could even help compensations promises that may or may not be part of contracts between different unions, etc.

The key is, planning helps Disney better manage their admin costs, which everyone knows is the largest expense on their annual budget. Profit = Revenue - Expenses.

Dot let the pixie dust fool you into thinking otherwise...

[DisneyGiant]

For the first time - EVER - this fast pass stuff has me re-thinking my love for all things WDW - including my DVC investment.

I am a planner - and we do work our park days around our restaurant reservations - but for the life of me - I just can't seem to work up enthusiasm for pre-planning visiting the actual attractions.

Maybe Toy Story Mania & Soarin' so I can make sure that I can get on both without having to wait on a long line - but how I am going to know if I want to start the park in Tomorrowland or Adventureland when I get there? What about all the extra stuff you seem to see once you walk into a park, and your attention goes there instead of your originally planned destination?

And now - I'd have to Fast Pass current walk-ons like the People Mover or the Carousel of Progress? Sounds ridiculous.

So what if you're a family who never fast passes anything - will you now have long lines every where?

Or if you race to get to a park first thing in the morning - will you still have to wait on a long line because folks will have fast passes at that time?