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MattHolst
09-15-2013, 10:10 PM
Here's what happened far too frequently when we used the bus system the first year. We walked back to the bus stops at the end of the day, with me carrying the exhausted seven year old. We'd wait 15-20 minutes in line. Finally here comes the bus. We're looking forward to getting on and getting the boys back to the room and in bed. Just as the bus pulls up, someone on a rented scooter pulls to the front of the line. They have 5 ppl with them. And we have to stand there waiting longer for them to load the scooter while the rider and their party goes and selects their seats. And what do you know- here comes another scooter. Process repeats itself. By the time all the scooters are loaded and everyone in the party seated, now we can load. But even though we were fourth in line, we have to stand with our kids because the seats are up for scooters and the remaining are filled with the scooter parties. This isn't right. I can see giving priority for wheelchairs, but not for rented scooters. They need to wait in line like everyone else, or have to ride buses specifically designated only for scooters. After getting bumped last year following a twenty minute wait while waiting to go to Magic Kingdom because there wasn't enough room on the bus after all the scooters came rolling out of the Pop Century lobby when the bus pulled up, we just drove to the parks after that. It's a shame because the bus system would be wonderful if not for the way the scooters are given priority. I know we're not the only ones that feel this way. :bang:

vicster
09-15-2013, 10:37 PM
Been there done that - there seem to be more every year. I thought they changed things and the families had to wait in line but apparently not.

vicster
09-15-2013, 10:43 PM
Disney needs to accomodate everyone and that's not happening.

gerald72
09-15-2013, 11:21 PM
Maybe the new buses will better accommodate this issue.
Can anyone get a scooter? Like you said- accommodate the wheelchairs but not the scooters. Make them wait in line, too.

spoiledraf
09-15-2013, 11:42 PM
We visited with my sister in law two years ago and my niece is in a wheel chair. They refused to take advantage of any special treatment because of the disability. They would wait their turn like everyone else, whether a bus or a attraction or a restroom. They appreciate the fact that Disney goes to great lengths to accommodate their daughter as best they can. So while I have experienced the same aggravating people taking advantage of the system, not all those who are challenged are so ignorant. There are a lot of people minimally challenged who really push the envelope when it comes to taking advantage of other visitors patience. No way those scooters should go to the front of the line.

Susan A
09-15-2013, 11:44 PM
Does a scooter not fit in the roped off queue? I would feel weird cutting in line...

Pirate Granny
09-15-2013, 11:58 PM
We had one time where there were...wait for it...12 people who got on with one scooter. We had to stand, and my daughter was 6 months pregnant and we had a 2 year old. I was carrying the stroller, and do you think one on the three abled bodied men who walked on with the scooter would give up their seat? Heck no, it was horrible and they just looked away. We would've had a seat if they would have only loaded the scooter and made their party stand in line when the scooter arrived at the bus! They really need to deal with this...and the abuse of huge groups trading off who's riding in the wheelchair now, being used as a stroller.

Polynesian Dweller
09-16-2013, 12:16 AM
Disney needs to accomodate everyone and that's not happening.
This is the kind of thread where people simply get upset because they perceive someone is getting an unfair advantage. Personally I wouldn't want to need a scooter or wheelchair. The inconveniences I might experience from these small delays pale in comparison to someone who needs it. Pretty petty of those who don't need it to make such a fuss about a few minute delay. And breaking up the parties doesn't do anything. All you would end up with is those in need of the scooter waiting in the sun and that has its own negatives.

Disney has to legally accommodate so there is no need to continue a thread like this because the accommodation isn't going away.

Maybe the new buses will better accommodate this issue.
Can anyone get a scooter? Like you said- accommodate the wheelchairs but not the scooters. Make them wait in line, too.

So let me get this straight. Either you are saying that nobody who has a disability rents a scooter or that disabled people who need a scooter shouldn't be accommodated. In the first instance, that is demonstrably false and in the second again Disney is legally required to accommodate. And since they must and disabled folks do rent them then Disney will continue meeting the law and accommodating.

Ok, and finally, scooters and wheelchairs must be loaded first. It is the only way to safely do it. The bus has to be empty because of the tightness of the aisles. So scooters and wheelchairs will always be loaded first and therefor having them wait in line simply doesn't work.

Get over it folks and be thankful that your worse problem is just a few minutes delay.

TheVBs
09-16-2013, 12:30 AM
Well said! If any in our group starts to gripe about the wait, I sternly remind them that we are lucky to be able to stand on our own two feet and wait. It's not fun waiting, no one likes it, but I would not wish to trade places. It's very easy to perceive a slight when there is none.

Opus X
09-16-2013, 12:52 AM
This is the kind of thread where people simply get upset because they perceive someone is getting an unfair advantage. Personally I wouldn't want to need a scooter or wheelchair. The inconveniences I might experience from these small delays pale in comparison to someone who needs it. Pretty petty of those who don't need it to make such a fuss about a few minute delay. And breaking up the parties doesn't do anything. All you would end up with is those in need of the scooter waiting in the sun and that has its own negatives.

Disney has to legally accommodate so there is no need to continue a thread like this because the accommodation isn't going away.


So let me get this straight. Either you are saying that nobody who has a disability rents a scooter or that disabled people who need a scooter shouldn't be accommodated. In the first instance, that is demonstrably false and in the second again Disney is legally required to accommodate. And since they must and disabled folks do rent them then Disney will continue meeting the law and accommodating.

Ok, and finally, scooters and wheelchairs must be loaded first. It is the only way to safely do it. The bus has to be empty because of the tightness of the aisles. So scooters and wheelchairs will always be loaded first and therefor having them wait in line simply doesn't work.

Get over it folks and be thankful that your worse problem is just a few minutes delay.
The problem is the utter rampant abuse of scooters.
Wheelchairs, i really cant imagine much abuse there..and those folks need all the help they can get. But, so many folks use scooters just as a convenience NOT a mobility issue.
But, karma...always gets you. I just enjoy my day at WDW and if someone is abusing the system...what comes around goes around...I do think though that only 2 people should be allowed to go on with a scooter. The rest of the family can catch up.
Its the same with public assistance...I think we all know how bad that is abused...
BUT, I do agree with you that it really isnt much of a delay...We almost always use WDW transport. I love it, its free and I could care less if i have to stand..I always give my seat to the elderly. Happy to do it. All in all, disney transport is GREAT. The wait times are always minimal in my humble opinion.

Polynesian Dweller
09-16-2013, 01:27 AM
The problem is the utter rampant abuse of scooters.
Wheelchairs, i really cant imagine much abuse there..and those folks need all the help they can get. But, so many folks use scooters just as a convenience NOT a mobility issue.
But, karma...always gets you. I just enjoy my day at WDW and if someone is abusing the system...what comes around goes around...I do think though that only 2 people should be allowed to go on with a scooter. The rest of the family can catch up.
Its the same with public assistance...I think we all know how bad that is abused...
BUT, I do agree with you that it really isnt much of a delay...We almost always use WDW transport. I love it, its free and I could care less if i have to stand..I always give my seat to the elderly. Happy to do it. All in all, disney transport is GREAT. The wait times are always minimal in my humble opinion.

I agree that there is some abuse there is of any program. But I doubt its that great. Besides, Disney has very limited options legally to try to identify who might be abusing. They really can't ask about the need for the scooter.

And for limiting the party to 2 plus the scooter user. Well, if you apply that rule only to scooter users that is in itself discriminatory and Disney can't legally be discriminatory. So the only way they could do that would be to limit all parties to a maximum of 3. So families of 4 or more would be broken into 2 or more parties. Of course, that wouldn't go over well, and it would lengthen lines at both ends with people waiting for their full party getting in the way of others both at origin and destination. It would be ugly.

All we can do is recognize that accommodation laws make the lives of those who need the accommodation much better and cause an inconvenience to the rest of us that really isn't that big in the grand scheme of things.

Opus X
09-16-2013, 01:39 AM
I agree that there is some abuse there is of any program. But I doubt its that great. Besides, Disney has very limited options legally to try to identify who might be abusing. They really can't ask about the need for the scooter.

And for limiting the party to 2 plus the scooter user. Well, if you apply that rule only to scooter users that is in itself discriminatory and Disney can't legally be discriminatory. So the only way they could do that would be to limit all parties to a maximum of 3. So families of 4 or more would be broken into 2 or more parties. Of course, that wouldn't go over well, and it would lengthen lines at both ends with people waiting for their full party getting in the way of others both at origin and destination. It would be ugly.

All we can do is recognize that accommodation laws make the lives of those who need the accommodation much better and cause an inconvenience to the rest of us that really isn't that big in the grand scheme of things.
I agree its almost impossible to rid the abusers...and as is stated..I really pay no attention..It takes a lot for me to get upset...while on vacation!:mickey:
But, it is something worth commentary. Its just not a WDW issue but a society as a whole issue concerning abuse of this or that.
But in any case...time for bed. Nice chat. After all, this is all about or love for WDW.:thumbsup:

gueli
09-16-2013, 04:48 AM
I agree that there is some abuse there is of any program. But I doubt its that great. Besides, Disney has very limited options legally to try to identify who might be abusing. They really can't ask about the need for the scooter.

And for limiting the party to 2 plus the scooter user. Well, if you apply that rule only to scooter users that is in itself discriminatory and Disney can't legally be discriminatory. So the only way they could do that would be to limit all parties to a maximum of 3. So families of 4 or more would be broken into 2 or more parties. Of course, that wouldn't go over well, and it would lengthen lines at both ends with people waiting for their full party getting in the way of others both at origin and destination. It would be ugly.

All we can do is recognize that accommodation laws make the lives of those who need the accommodation much better and cause an inconvenience to the rest of us that really isn't that big in the grand scheme of things.

I like a number of the points you bring up :thanks:

My DW got injured on our last trip to wdw. I rented a scooter for her. It was an inconvenience that made the rest of the trip bearable.

The Bus system is PUBLIC transportation. There are going to be inconveniences that accompany that.
One of the reasons that scooters have to be loaded first is that the seats on the bus need to go up, and displacing any passengers that are seated there could becomes a problem. Which is why they get 'preferential' treatment.
In a perfect world, there would be 3 or 4 specialty vehicles that would be used at a park's closing that could accommodate many scooters and wheelchairs, and the parties that travel with them (perhaps having standing stations for the parties). but its not a perfect world...

this topic has its points on both sides
:goodbad:

but like opus x said...why get worked up on vacation :thumbsup:

Maggie T
09-16-2013, 06:49 AM
I would rather wait and stand then have to be on a scooter. The scooter people would rather be scooter free. The problem I see is when women by themselves or holding a child are standing and men and teenagers are sitting there and not offering their seat. I have given my seat and have seen other men give up their seat but not enough of them do it. Elderly people I have seen standing while a teenager sitting on his can care less. That I believe is the problem.

clarkee
09-16-2013, 07:32 AM
I agree that those of us lucky enough to have no disability that requires the use of wheelchair or motorized vehicle should not pout about the person who does need a wheelchair "holding up the line". A couple of small changes to the rules however could attempt to help everyone.

The use of wheelchairs is an absolute necessity and should be accomodated at all costs. They must load first for safety. Their party shoud get on first with them. However, they should be instructed that should the bus be full to capacity they may need to stand to accomodate small children and the elderly that were in line first.

Second, the use of motorized scooters is a modern convenience of the very recent past. I completely agree that it is abused regularly. I don't believe that any current laws on accomodating disabilities specifically make outlined rules regarding scooters. There is a big difference between the motorized wheelchair that is a medical necessity and the scooter used for convenience. I might enjoy myself if I spent the day in a bed on wheels but I have not yet seen them accomodated on buses due to an laws on inclusion. I know when I had an injury years ago, we used the scooter in the park for convenience but as many people using them do, I was perfectly cabable of disembarking my scooter for rides and for the bus.

Perhaps, part of the problem would be fixed by moving the scooter rental to an area near the buses. Many scooter riders would like or need the convenience of these items for the park but have no real need to rent them for the whole duration of their trip if they could get them as soon as they got off of the bus.

Another idea would be to have one person in the party wait in the line and the scooter could board first on the bus that their party would have gotten on, based on the lineup. The bus drivers know how many people the bus accomodates.

Additionally, making guest who plan to use the scooters on the buses obtain a medical note that would be handed in at front desk or the parks could also cut down on some of the abuses. Separate buses are certainly an option

As a parent of young children I am dismayed to see a number of people abusing the scooter accomodation and sitting comfortably with their other five able bodied adults and my two year old cries because I have to stand on the bus and struggle to hold her or she has to stand herself when there isn't room. As the scooters become more affordable and more common place, it is naive to believe that the issue with abuse isn't getting worse. Accomodation is one thing, but when I pay the same amount for my vacation as another person, I should not have to wait for three buses because a person on a scooter pulls up at the last second and gets on the bus and displaces five to ten seats.

This problem is not going away. In fact, it is getting worse. We must find a way for everyone to have a magical vacation!

spoiledraf
09-16-2013, 08:23 AM
As I mentioned earlier, we vacationed with my niece in a chair. We were a party of seven. We were split several times when boarding buses. My nieces parents did board with her and the rest of us waited our turn, and sometimes that meant the next bus. We were split at the attractions as well. It's not a big deal folks. Everyone has a cell phone. You meet up at the park you are going to or after the ride. Four to a partying including the chair/scooter is plenty.
And on Disney's part, a few more buses added to the routes would help tremendously. But that might cut into profits and we can't disappoint the investors over the folks spending their saved up penny's.

1DisneyNut
09-16-2013, 09:42 AM
I believe WDW controls some of this by having only a certain percentage of buses with hadicap/scooter capability. Maybe they have added a higher percentage to the system.

This is however they way they can control the abuse. Keep an appropriate percentage of handicap buses and those with scooters have to wait for one to come along. Everyone else uses the regular buses that come by more frequently.

I haven't used the internal bus system in several years so I don't have first hand knowledge of whether they have uped the percentage or not. I got tired of standing around wasting a significant amount of my vacation time waiting on the buses so we started driving everywhere.

ISLE39
09-16-2013, 10:02 AM
I have always hated when scooters get loaded but this year i am renting one for the very first time for my mom who can not navigate the parks I myself at 30 on one trip was in a wheelchair after having knee surgery one month prior The looks i got bc of my age were crazy but i couldnt walk. Sometimes you may not always see the persons disability. I rented a car this trip so i can fold the scooter and i dont need to wait in any lines

Jared
09-16-2013, 10:13 AM
If it's within your budget, I'd always recommend renting a car. It really is so much easier and speedier than dealing with Disney's bus service

I applaud Disney for offering free transportation around the resort. It is a great perk. But it isn't designed to be fast, direct or thorough.

Renting a car is really a matter of cost versus convenience. It's not cheap, but it certainly makes a trip a bit easier, especially if you're staying at a moderate or value hotel with limited transportation options other than buses.

As for the scooters, yeah, I've always thought the loading process was a bit strange, but I've just accepted it.

Mrs Bus Driver
09-16-2013, 10:41 AM
Wow so many sitting in judgement of those on scooters. I don't own a scooter but will be using one for the first time on my up coming trip. I have pulmonary fibrosis and I am sure that when people see me do things like get up and take a seat on a ride many will think I am abusing the system. I get that your tired and would like a seat on the bus, prior trips I've had to stand at the end of a long day, I know what its like when your tired and your feet hurt. But don't blame the people on scooters. When I walk for a short distance my oxygen levels drop and I have to stop and let them build up again. Imagine trying to do that at WDW. So I will be on a scooter so that I don't have to stop all the time.

merciantinkerbell
09-16-2013, 12:33 PM
On our first trip last year my husband used his own manual wheelchair. He's not confined to it BUT is in constant and at times severe pain due to his conditions, using a wheelchair enables us both to enjoy our days out more no matter if its WDW or shopping. We used Disney buses a few times and yes felt guilty about getting on first BUT I stood rather than took a seat because that seemed fair. One time coming back from MK we couldn't take one bus as the driver hadn't got the keys for the ramp so had to wait another 20 mins or so. So, swings and roundabouts. There will be those who take advantage of the system but many, like us, who don't

Dulcee
09-16-2013, 01:04 PM
This is really such a tough issue that can get people very very :mad:.

We used the buses exclusively on our '09 trip. Prior to that with my family we always had a car. After the '09 trip we rented our car for our '12 trip and will have our own vehicle in '14 again.

I agree it can be frustrating watching scooter after scooter load before you. I try very hard to remind myself that not all disabilities are visible and that not every person who requires a scooter at WDW requires them at home. But being human, and honest, I admit it can get you after a while. I'm also sure there is some abuse, which is unfortunate for those who truly need the extra help.

More frustrating was when I was standing holding a screaming, overtired 1 year old nephew on the way home and not one able bodied person could offer us a seat on a 10pm bus. As childless adults on our trip now we both go out of our way to offer seats to parents with kids or older individuals.

But all of this is why we primarily use a car now. Its just not worth the added aggravation. I don't like judging people I see in scooters, at the end of a long day it can get the better of me. Taking our car avoids that issue.

MississippiDisneyFreak
09-16-2013, 01:13 PM
The tone of your thread indicates you think everyone on a scooter is able bodied and simply taking advantage of getting in the bus first. Well, my mother is a cancer survivor who's had surgery on both feet although she has a wheelchair at home rents a scooter when we are at Disney. By looking at her you wouldn't necessarily know her condition so don't automatically assume everyone on a scooter is able bodied. However we don't mind waiting in line if that's the policy and while I don't agree with allowing a huge party load with the scooter I am not going to send her off on her own either. Now for the grown adults sitting while you are holding a small child that is their poor character and not the fault of the person in the scooter

Goofy4TheWorld
09-16-2013, 02:02 PM
Ok, and finally, scooters and wheelchairs must be loaded first. It is the only way to safely do it. The bus has to be empty because of the tightness of the aisles. So scooters and wheelchairs will always be loaded first and therefor having them wait in line simply doesn't work.

Bologna, scooters are loaded on packed buses all day, every day, at the Grand Floridian after the bus has already picked up guests at the CR and Poly before stopping at the GF on its way to DHS. There are many other instances where shared-route buses load scooters with people already on the bus (practically every Deluxe resort as well as most moderates have multi-stop routes where this occurs daily).

The solution to this problem is so simple, yet it amazes me how Disney appears unwilling to do it: One line for buses, period. There should not be a separate que for scooters, just make sure all que lines are wide enough for scooters, and everybody gets in the same line. This way if a scooter person wants to load the bus first, they can simply move aside and wait until they are in the front of the line for the next bus, as well as if an able-bodied man who just WANTS to sit down with his stroller, wife, and two exhausted kids and is willing to wait for the next bus, well he can do that too. The way it is now, there is NO guarantee of a seat even if you are willing to wait for the next bus three buses to pass you by.

Jared
09-16-2013, 02:26 PM
Right. I think everyone understands that scooters need to be loaded onto an empty bus. Nobody has an issue with that.

I think what upsets some people is that Disney's practice is to load scooters first regardless of the queue that may have accumulated well before the scooter arrived. In other words, there could be 100 people waiting for a bus for 20 minutes, but if a guest in a scooter rolls up as the bus is arriving, he and his party are entitled to board ahead of everybody who had been waiting.

The fairest way to do this is to have all bus queues be wide enough to accommodate scooters and wheelchairs. Then, one the bus arrives, simply count off. If a guest in a scooter and his party would be able to board that bus based on the number of people in front of them, allow them to board first.

If not, then they should have to wait for the next bus.

I'm sure it isn't as simple as it sounds, but it would certainly be a fairer policy.

JerseyDad
09-16-2013, 02:41 PM
....other than the time that is eaten up to load the scooters ....I'm not sure if anyone mentioned that the scooter itself "eats up" 3 seats ...minimum. So, when a person with a scooter boards the bus ..and they are with one other person who's walking ...that means that 5 seats have immediately been removed from the bus ....now ...along comes a second scooter ...and maybe they have the rider + 3 people on foot. That's a loss of 7 seats. The scooters are securely strapped down and are quite stable when loaded on the bus. The rider should at least be required to sit on the scooter. I can't see any reason why they can't....and in the past have seen them sitting on it while the bus was in motion. It's not as if the scooter will go anywhere once the bus is packed with all those that were waiting on line...and have been deprived of a seat.

....and ...I really don't need to hear from all the scooter-defenders who in all honesty NEED their scooter. You know who you are ...you know (if you're really honest) that you need it ...your life would be in jeopardy if you didn't use it ...etc etc etc.

....but when I'm standing on a bus stop line at the end of a day at a park ...and the number of people on said line is approaching 250 (at closing time at EPCOT) ...and out of no where this scooter pulls up, and it's not your run of the mill scooter. This one has a canopy like a convertible and a big "let me put all my shopping bags in here" basket on the front ...and it's got decorative ice-cream bar shaped lights dangling off the canopy. And when it's got a second person accompanying ...and when on board, the canopy is taking up room too ......and then ...I see said scooter rider at the resort ....walking around perfectly fine and frolicking by / in the pool at some other time .....that's when I get miffed at the extreme abuse related to the scooters.

....so ...when those who have 'hidden afflictions" get all bent out of shape and get their hackles up when criticism is laid out ...it's understandable.

....just as it is understandable that when I'm taking a luggage cart through POP ....and 2 scooters ...with 2 women ...come flying around the corner near the baggage area (and they were flying) and nearly hit me because of the high speed at which they were traveling, I had every right to yell at them and say "Slow the he!! down". Because, the scooter riders HAVE to understand that just because YOU CAN go faster than the average person can walk ...YOU DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO DO SO. You do not have the right to blow your little buzzer of horn or bell when you are trying to race the crowd to the buses after Illuminations has ended, because someone like me, who walks pretty fast, does not have the right to yell at someone in front of me who's walking slower than I am. (btw ...I had to wait for these 2 women to load their scooters once while at the bus to MK ...and saw them at the resort getting around all fine & dandy without them)

....so ...those that NEED the scooters ...no one is sitting in judgement of you. If you need it ...then feel good that they exist and are an assistance to you. But ....those of us that SEE the ever increasing use of scooters by people who's rationale to do so is because "WDW is big, and it's Florida, so it's hot ...and I'll be tired without one" ....have every right to be miffed, and critical of the expanding abuse that cuts into OUR enjoyment of WDW.

....yes ...those of us that do not need / use mechanical assistance to get around should feel 'lucky'. But at the same time we should not have to bend over so far backwards in the other direction to be so accommodating that the pendulum has now swung in the favor of those that blatantly abuse. Most good persons will accommodate others in need, but they don't want to feel used while doing so.

.....and ..to those that feel like they are being 'persecuted" ....don't be. Just say a thank you to all that take advantage of the system.


ps: let me add that I live near a major college campus and they provide free transport between campus locations. As such , I just noticed buses that have platforms located at the back of the bus that accommodate scooters and bicycles (I think they lower like a small electric elevator and can hold at least 2 scooters). This may be something that WDW could look into ...because at least it'll save some seats.

The Hitchhiking Ghost
09-16-2013, 03:49 PM
Wow so many sitting in judgement of those on scooters

To be fair, I don't think people are passing judgement on those people using scooters, but more so the process of how Disney handles it.

We've all been in that situation, leave the MK at midnight, make you way down to the bus islands, find your queue and get in line with two kids passed out, a 3rd cranky, a stroller that won't cooperate and too many bags of souvenirs that you don't really need. After a 1/2 of waiting for buses, you look at the line and cross your fingers that the next bus is yours! Then just as the bus pulls up, someone pulls up on a scooter, no wait, and gets priority seating on the bus, with their entourage, and now your looking at your watch hoping, maybe next bus. Its a natural frustration and I can certainly see the perspective that the OP is coming from. That's why on our last trip, for the first time, we rented a car. We still took ME to/from the airport to POR, but rented the car on property, which was not only cheaper than at the airport, but saved on days needed.

As much as I understand what the OP is saying, there is another view. Not abled vs. disabled, but the original complaint tends to be more towards when parks are emptying. On our last visit, we took the car to MK but used the buses to get back to our resort for a afternoon swim. When we boarded the bus at POR to return, after a lengthy wait for it in the first place, it began its run around the resort. At its last stop there was a couple waiting that had a scooter. Guess what, the bus was full, other than for standing room only, so our driver had to tell them they'd have to wait for the next bus (keeping in mind not all buses accommodate the scooters). So who knows how long this couple had to wait for a bus that was empty enough that they could board.

Short of paying for more attendants to hand out boarding numbers at the bus stations, I'm not really certain exactly what can be done to make it a better system.

Maybe they should extend fastpass to the buses?

Renfairwedding
09-16-2013, 04:36 PM
I use an electric wheel chair. As pointed out not every bus used has accommodation for scooters or chairs. I personally don't have a problem waiting as I have the only seat on the line. Since the bus is limited to on how many EV's it can carry so if they don't load every trip you get a serious back up. I have waited over an hour for a bus to have room to get me back to the resort.

And to point out in most cases we are the last off when we get to the resorts.

As for ridding. Only wheel chairs are allowed to ride in place. We are set with a seat belt Scooter riders must transfer to a bus seat for safety.

DVCJohn
09-16-2013, 05:16 PM
Here's what happened far too frequently when we used the bus system the first year. We walked back to the bus stops at the end of the day, with me carrying the exhausted seven year old. We'd wait 15-20 minutes in line. Finally here comes the bus. We're looking forward to getting on and getting the boys back to the room and in bed. Just as the bus pulls up, someone on a rented scooter pulls to the front of the line. They have 5 ppl with them. And we have to stand there waiting longer for them to load the scooter while the rider and their party goes and selects their seats. And what do you know- here comes another scooter. Process repeats itself. By the time all the scooters are loaded and everyone in the party seated, now we can load. But even though we were fourth in line, we have to stand with our kids because the seats are up for scooters and the remaining are filled with the scooter parties. This isn't right. I can see giving priority for wheelchairs, but not for rented scooters. They need to wait in line like everyone else, or have to ride buses specifically designated only for scooters. After getting bumped last year following a twenty minute wait while waiting to go to Magic Kingdom because there wasn't enough room on the bus after all the scooters came rolling out of the Pop Century lobby when the bus pulled up, we just drove to the parks after that. It's a shame because the bus system would be wonderful if not for the way the scooters are given priority. I know we're not the only ones that feel this way. :bang:

I am sorry that you had an additional wait for a bus but you need to understand the situations of people on the "RENTED SCOOTERS" before you spout off.
My father is 89 years old. He had damage done to his right leg during WW2. He is unable to walk long distances. I rent a scooter for him so he can get to the buses and from the buses to the parks without major difficulty. We have waited for buses when we could have been first on but the cue was backed up with people waiting longer than us. For my part, I typically stand on the bus so that I am not taking additional seats away from the individuals that give us dirty looks for having the gall to bring a scooter on to a bus. I know Intercot's policy about not being confrontational but this really ticks me off. Walk a mile in someone else's shoes.

DonaldDuckUSA
09-16-2013, 05:59 PM
I agree with those saying we should just be happy and celebrate that we're healthy enough to walk. On my vacation, I either tell myself that it's not worth it to get so upset, or I try to beat the crowds, and that's all you can do.

My biggest frustration is this:


I would rather wait and stand then have to be on a scooter. The scooter people would rather be scooter free. The problem I see is when women by themselves or holding a child are standing and men and teenagers are sitting there and not offering their seat. I have given my seat and have seen other men give up their seat but not enough of them do it. Elderly people I have seen standing while a teenager sitting on his can care less. That I believe is the problem.

I WAS GOING TO SAY THE SAME THING! Gentlemen just don't offer their seats anymore. What gives, fellas?

mechanic
09-16-2013, 06:23 PM
A lot or good caring people out here who have been raised well. Who would give up their seat for a woman or elderly person. But I think the problem is growing, and really I like the idea of having scooter users wait in line like everyone else. Just like toilet facilities, the handicapped stalks are open to anyone, the buses are open to anyone as soon as there is room. There is rarely a scooter condition that would require you to be first on the bus.
Aslo disturbing is the number of scooter rental ads that have popped up actually advising people
"You don't have to be disabled to rent a scooter"
either way, I will still ride the bus, and I will give up my seat like my dad taught me to. (Though at 52 I sometimes have people offering me a seat!)
I will be happy I can get around on my own.

Goofy4TheWorld
09-16-2013, 08:03 PM
What gives, fellas?

The 60's. :thedolls:

I am an able-bodied 32 year old male, and I often given my seat up (actually I just don't take a seat up to start with most of the time) when it isn't a biggie for me. Of course often times if I do not take a seat up in the first place, someone half my age will take my seat for me, so nobody "needy" benefits unless I sit down first then decide to evaluate the folks around me and decide who "deserves" it more than me. However on my last trip there were times when my wife was fighting our exhausted two year old while I was wrestling the "Cadillac stroller" I should have left at home, I got to a point where I felt like I deserve a seat too, and if someone else wants a seat, they can just wait for the next bus, something I have done more than once when a seat was a must for me (although the whole scooter discussion does factor into waiting for the next bus...).

TheVBs
09-16-2013, 09:18 PM
....but when I'm standing on a bus stop line at the end of a day at a park ...and the number of people on said line is approaching 250 (at closing time at EPCOT) ...and out of no where this scooter pulls up, and it's not your run of the mill scooter. This one has a canopy like a convertible and a big "let me put all my shopping bags in here" basket on the front ...and it's got decorative ice-cream bar shaped lights dangling off the canopy. And when it's got a second person accompanying ...and when on board, the canopy is taking up room too ......and then ...I see said scooter rider at the resort ....walking around perfectly fine and frolicking by / in the pool at some other time .....that's when I get miffed at the extreme abuse related to the scooters.

....so ...when those who have 'hidden afflictions" get all bent out of shape and get their hackles up when criticism is laid out ...it's understandable.

....just as it is understandable that when I'm taking a luggage cart through POP ....and 2 scooters ...with 2 women ...come flying around the corner near the baggage area (and they were flying) and nearly hit me because of the high speed at which they were traveling, I had every right to yell at them and say "Slow the he!! down". Because, the scooter riders HAVE to understand that just because YOU CAN go faster than the average person can walk ...YOU DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO DO SO. You do not have the right to blow your little buzzer of horn or bell when you are trying to race the crowd to the buses after Illuminations has ended, because someone like me, who walks pretty fast, does not have the right to yell at someone in front of me who's walking slower than I am. (btw ...I had to wait for these 2 women to load their scooters once while at the bus to MK ...and saw them at the resort getting around all fine & dandy without them)


OMG! :funny: I know you're genuinely miffed, but you had me doubled over laughing at this! I needed that. Thanks. :)

So, having read other responses, I can understand why people get frustrated with what seems like a flawed system. If you're not in a scooter you may be seeing people who appear to be, or actually are, abusing the system. But you may not be seeing a person on a scooter having to wait for several buses before one can take them. You may also not be seeing the level of abuse they're taking because they don't "look" disabled. It's possible that Disney is running the bus situation as best they can.

We're happy to use the buses and happy that we are able to stand and walk. Of course, we know that we may have to wait for more than one bus if there are large crowds, scooters or if we want to make sure we can sit. For us it's worth it to drop those car keys and not have to worry about driving. If that ever changes and we're not ok with the bus system as is, we'll start driving to the parks. :thumbsup:

MississippiDisneyFreak
09-16-2013, 10:36 PM
I am sorry that you had an additional wait for a bus but you need to understand the situations of people on the "RENTED SCOOTERS" before you spout off.
My father is 89 years old. He had damage done to his right leg during WW2. He is unable to walk long distances. I rent a scooter for him so he can get to the buses and from the buses to the parks without major difficulty. We have waited for buses when we could have been first on but the cue was backed up with people waiting longer than us. For my part, I typically stand on the bus so that I am not taking additional seats away from the individuals that give us dirty looks for having the gall to bring a scooter on to a bus. I know Intercot's policy about not being confrontational but this really ticks me off. Walk a mile in someone else's shoes.

Well said ...we would actually rather wait in line with everyone else just to avoid getting the dirty looks. Believe me my mom would rather be physically able to do without the scooter and then the hate yes hate she gets from strangers makes her feel worse. I'm sorry but she deserves her vacation too..

Lizzie
09-16-2013, 11:09 PM
Do they have a maximum number of scooters that can be loaded on the bus? I understand they need to load up first. Its to difficult to fit in and get in safely in if they wait in line with everyone else and try to load on with other people.

Maybe if they had a maximum number of scooters on the bus and a maximum number of people that can accompany the scooter.

Arielfan98
09-16-2013, 11:10 PM
This happens all the time every year. I think they should have a designated bus for scooters/wheelchairs only to keep the lines moving.

JerseyDad
09-16-2013, 11:26 PM
Do they have a maximum number of scooters that can be loaded on the bus? I understand they need to load up first. Its to difficult to fit in and get in safely in if they wait in line with everyone else and try to load on with other people.

Maybe if they had a maximum number of scooters on the bus and a maximum number of people that can accompany the scooter.

....there are 2 "sets" of 3 connected seats that can be flipped up to accommodate a scooter ...so I'm sure they limit it to 2 scooters per bus. I've never seen more than that.

Susan A
09-16-2013, 11:32 PM
"This happens all the time every year. I think they should have a designated bus for scooters/wheelchairs only to keep the lines moving. "

I think having a separate bus would be considered segregation, versus inclusion.

Arielfan98
09-17-2013, 12:00 AM
"This happens all the time every year. I think they should have a designated bus for scooters/wheelchairs only to keep the lines moving. "

I think having a separate bus would be considered segregation, versus inclusion.

I see your point. Did not mean to offend any one I was just thinking in terms of what other users have said about needing assistance, but not wanting the dirty looks.

GoBlueLacheta
09-17-2013, 02:50 PM
Yeah the 100s of people in line get kinda uppity when they are loading my golf cart onto the bus with flags and rims and fridge off the back.:rotfl:

No but really, this seems like more of procedure issue for Disney rather than a people issue at least over the course of 365 days the park is open. Yes, some clowns take advantage, but far more utilize scooters etc. properly. Just like the schmohawks who drive in the HOV lane by themselves.

ADA laws really have Disney handcuffed so theres nothing thats going to be dramatically done as far as the abusers.

AvonleaCF
09-17-2013, 03:48 PM
I have no problems with people using scooters, for any reason, and needing them to be loaded onto the bus. That doesn't bother me. But what does bother me, like others have said, is that the entire family gets to board first with the scooter. Limit it to the scooter rider and no more than 2 extra people. The rest can wait in line with everyone else. If they get separated, so be it. I really don't see anything wrong with that.

As for people who need them vs. not: not my concern.

JerseyDad
09-17-2013, 04:06 PM
Yeah the 100s of people in line get kinda uppity when they are loading my golf cart onto the bus with flags and rims and fridge off the back.:rotfl:

No but really, this seems like more of procedure issue for Disney rather than a people issue at least over the course of 365 days the park is open. Yes, some clowns take advantage, but far more utilize scooters etc. properly. Just like the schmohawks who drive in the HOV lane by themselves.

ADA laws really have Disney handcuffed so theres nothing thats going to be dramatically done as far as the abusers.

....I'm sure Disney lawyers have studied long and hard how to not get a ADA rights lawsuit filed against them ...

....I deal with the ADA laws all the time (I'm in engineering and construction field)...and I can tell you that years ago, in the beginning of their application to building access, transportation, dining facility, restroom design ....etc, etc ....there were TONS of ADA Advocacy Group pushing for the laws to be made even more 'all encompassing' (sort of the 'get what you can while the getting is good' attitude)

......many years later ...I can tell you that there are almost an equal number of Laws / Rights Groups that endeavor to uphold the rights of those that are not handicapped ..and have to implement all these design features and transportation system access regulations (property owners).

...the true ...honest ....CORRECT ...purpose of the ADA regulations ...was to level the playing field ....and to make EVERYONE EQUAL. It was NOT to slant the field in the favor of those who are handicapped.

.....example: If everyone that's waiting for a bus is standing on a line (as we know they do) ...then the concept of "first come - first served" is in play. Everyone is technically "equal" because they ALL are waiting ....yes, some longer than others , but they are all doing what everyone else is doing ...hence ...equality.

.....to be truly equal ...someone on a scooter , or wheelchair needs to comply with the same waiting in line purgatory that everyone else must endure. To show up at the last moment ...get on the bus first ...get what amounts to 'priority seating' ...has slanted the playing field in an unfair direction.

....of course there will be those that will argue in favor of those that need mobility devices, and play with one's sense of guilt to say, "Wouldn't you WANT to give up your space / seat ....or lengthen your wait on line for someone that is physically challenged" ?

.....and no one wants to be seen as a complete heel and say no to that question, but I think if a legal argument had to be made, you could probably win by taking the stand of "everyone that wants to use the bus, must wait on a line like everyone else".


....that's' why people get so incensed at someone just showing up on a scooter and getting the red carpet treatment (particularly the ones with the fridge on the back)

russ57
09-17-2013, 08:03 PM
I have charcot foot, where the leg bone is slowly forcing its way out the arch. I have a wheelchair to use for prolonged shopping trips, and in 2012 took along to Hawaii, with a 3 day stop to Disneyland. At Disneyland had rented a scooter. I can walk, somewhat slower, and not for a long time. Disney was fully accomodating to me, One of the cast members suggested where to park the scooter, to get the best view of the fireworks show. I will ge going to Disneyworld in 2016 and using the wheelchair through airports, and will have to rent a scooter. I am pooh sized, and it is interesting the looks you get when in the scooter. I will be using the bus system with the scooter, It is just my wife and I. I really don't mind waiting in lines.

Cinderelley
09-17-2013, 09:59 PM
I agree that scooters that just showed up shouldn't necessarily get on the first bus. If there is a line, there should be some way to hold their place while still allowing the bus drivers to load them first when the bus for their place in line shows up. There is no reason why these people shouldn't be allowed to board the same bus as their families. How would you feel if you showed up to your ADR just to have them tell you that your family is being seated in two different areas at different times?
BUT people don't HAVE to stay in the parks until their kids are so tired that they need to be carried, are cranky and crying, etc. You know what it is like on the buses. Be the proactive adult and take them back to the room before they get to that point. It will be better for everyone. Complaining about it based on the fact that you are tired and sore really doesn't carry much weight with me. You are in control of that, while people who need scooters (and I really don't see much difference between a scooter and a wheelchair in this case) really don't have control over that necessity.
As for the person who saw someone using a scooter and then saw that same person in the pool. Pool therapy is great for people with disabilities. It is less stressful on the body to be in water.
I took my children to Disneyland many times when they were young, and I was able bodied. I always viewed it as my responsibility to gauge when we needed to head back before there was an issue. Did I miss out on a lot of things I wanted to do? You betcha, but it was worth it.

I have been to Disney World when I needed a wheelchair. I was young and looked fine. No one would know that I get injections up and down my neck and back every 3 months in order to function due to a major car accident, just by looking at me. I received many dirty looks and at times really wished I could go through regular entrances to see what people here on Intercot talked about. I would have loved to go on Rockin' Rollercoaster or the "real" Mission Space.

After years of work, I was finally able to do most of WDW with just a GAC card. My recent bout with cancer has set me back quite a bit, so I don't know what I will need when we go next year. I really don't want to use a wheelchair, but I don't plan on letting my physical disability interfere with my family's enjoyment. We are celebrating my oldest son's safe return home and getting out of the Navy along with me being cancer free now. If that means I need a wheelchair in order to get through the parks, then I will get one and just endure the dirty looks.

Mrs Bus Driver
09-17-2013, 10:59 PM
I agree that scooters that just showed up shouldn't necessarily get on the first bus. If there is a line, there should be some way to hold their place while still allowing the bus drivers to load them first when the bus for their place in line shows up. There is no reason why these people shouldn't be allowed to board the same bus as their families. How would you feel if you showed up to your ADR just to have them tell you that your family is being seated in two different areas at different times?
BUT people don't HAVE to stay in the parks until their kids are so tired that they need to be carried, are cranky and crying, etc. You know what it is like on the buses. Be the proactive adult and take them back to the room before they get to that point. It will be better for everyone. Complaining about it based on the fact that you are tired and sore really doesn't carry much weight with me. You are in control of that, while people who need scooters (and I really don't see much difference between a scooter and a wheelchair in this case) really don't have control over that necessity.
As for the person who saw someone using a scooter and then saw that same person in the pool. Pool therapy is great for people with disabilities. It is less stressful on the body to be in water.
I took my children to Disneyland many times when they were young, and I was able bodied. I always viewed it as my responsibility to gauge when we needed to head back before there was an issue. Did I miss out on a lot of things I wanted to do? You betcha, but it was worth it.

I have been to Disney World when I needed a wheelchair. I was young and looked fine. No one would know that I get injections up and down my neck and back every 3 months in order to function due to a major car accident, just by looking at me. I received many dirty looks and at times really wished I could go through regular entrances to see what people here on Intercot talked about. I would have loved to go on Rockin' Rollercoaster or the "real" Mission Space.

After years of work, I was finally able to do most of WDW with just a GAC card. My recent bout with cancer has set me back quite a bit, so I don't know what I will need when we go next year. I really don't want to use a wheelchair, but I don't plan on letting my physical disability interfere with my family's enjoyment. We are celebrating my oldest son's safe return home and getting out of the Navy along with me being cancer free now. If that means I need a wheelchair in order to get through the parks, then I will get one and just endure the dirty looks.
Thank you I couldn't have said it better myself :mickey:

ANG
09-18-2013, 09:41 AM
We visited with my sister in law two years ago and my niece is in a wheel chair. They refused to take advantage of any special treatment because of the disability. They would wait their turn like everyone else, whether a bus or a attraction or a restroom. They appreciate the fact that Disney goes to great lengths to accommodate their daughter as best they can. So while I have experienced the same aggravating people taking advantage of the system, not all those who are challenged are so ignorant. There are a lot of people minimally challenged who really push the envelope when it comes to taking advantage of other visitors patience. No way those scooters should go to the front of the line.

I agree! A few years back, I was pregnant and limited to a wheelchair for a significant part of our trip. I realize this is different than a disability. But I was given many opportunities to take advantage of the situation. I politely declined line jumping or waiting our turn for the next bus. It really is the ethics of the person in the scooter.

merciantinkerbell
09-18-2013, 10:00 AM
To those who said scooters/wheelchairs should wait in line then the driver can count off and decide if to load the scooter/wheelchair is a great idea! We did just that last year. We just arrived at the bus stop when a bus for our destination arrived. The driver said we were first and we politely declined as all these people were ahead of us and we just got there. We got some surprised looks but the bus filled up. If we had gone on, the last few people would have to wait, and in our view that didn't seem fair. In short, we're happy to wait our turn and me to stand and not take a seat

MississippiDisneyFreak
09-18-2013, 10:48 AM
I think most people who legitamately need the scooter don't mind waiting in line. I know my mom doesn't. The last trip we took was my mom, son and me and my son would board with her as she had some troubles parking the scooter at times and I would wait in line with everyone else. If my son saw an elderly person or someone holding a small child board and have to stand up, he always gave them his seat. I'm sorry people but saying people in wheelchairs are legit and people in scooters aren't is bull, you can rent a wheelchair the same place you rent the scooter. It is easier for my mom to get around in the scooter, so that's what we rent for her at DW. She has a wheelchair whe use when necessary at home and she has a handicapped placard for our car but the amount of walking required at Disney is not practical to use the wheelchair.

If you look at my mom, you may not know her problems as she can walk for short distances okay, although with a slight limp. So seeing her in the pool or walking around the gift shop doesn't mean she's not disabled. She's had tendon replacement surgery in both feet, one tendon completely severed by a bone spur and she was cut clean up to her knee in that surgery. My sister and I had to take a total of two months leave to take care of her with both surgeries and she could not walk on the foot at all. She has had a double mastectomy due to breast cancer and stints in her heart. She didn't want to get the scooter last trip because she was afraid of people would think. I insisted and she was grateful after we got there because she wouldn't have been able to make it without it. Come on people be a little compassionate and I hope each one of you never have to go through what she has endured.

Are people going to abuse the system? Yes of course, just like they abuse everything else, but you can't always assume someone's faking because they don't "look" disabled.

angua85
09-18-2013, 11:45 AM
I would also be careful about assuming those really are "dirty looks." Sometimes I furrow my brow when I am thinking (stuff like- "do they need help? Should I go over and offer?") and it may look like I am angry. But I am not. Could be true of other folks.

So a little latitude on all sides might be due :)

PopPhan
09-18-2013, 11:49 AM
To those who said scooters/wheelchairs should wait in line then the driver can count off and decide if to load the scooter/wheelchair is a great idea! We did just that last year. We just arrived at the bus stop when a bus for our destination arrived. The driver said we were first and we politely declined as all these people were ahead of us and we just got there. We got some surprised looks but the bus filled up. If we had gone on, the last few people would have to wait, and in our view that didn't seem fair. In short, we're happy to wait our turn and me to stand and not take a seat

Thank you for being fair and reasonable! If more people would be like you, we wouldn't have all the griping and complaining about how ECVs are handled.

I don't mind either way....I'm on vacation and know I will get to my destination eventually. If I have to wait for another bus, or stand on a bus, it's no big deal. Of course, I don't have kids (out way past their normal bed times, or otherwise,) so I don't have to worry about them being tired, whiny, fussy, etc. at the end of the night.

merciantinkerbell
09-18-2013, 12:25 PM
Thanks PopPhan. Feel all warm and fuzzy now.

badjujue
09-18-2013, 10:52 PM
We had one time where there were...wait for it...12 people who got on with one scooter. We had to stand, and my daughter was 6 months pregnant and we had a 2 year old. I was carrying the stroller, and do you think one on the three abled bodied men who walked on with the scooter would give up their seat? Heck no, it was horrible and they just looked away. We would've had a seat if they would have only loaded the scooter and made their party stand in line when the scooter arrived at the bus! They really need to deal with this...and the abuse of huge groups traduing off who's riding in the wheelchair now, being used as a stroller.
I have been in the same seniero. Disney has got a little better with the scooters only 2 to a bus. I do agree that these people take advantage of the system half ,to three quarters of the walk fine. I get so mad when I have been waiting for 20 minutes the bus pulls up and bam they come out of no where. Something's need to change

masonlovesdisney
09-19-2013, 02:11 PM
I feel you on this one. I cant stand when people do this BUT, on this trip coming up in October, my dear grandma will be taking a scooter, due to her knees. Now, unlike others, if we notice people who need the seats more than us, we will give the seats up. That is how I was raised and is what I will do.

Cinderelley
09-19-2013, 05:09 PM
I agree! A few years back, I was pregnant and limited to a wheelchair for a significant part of our trip. I realize this is different than a disability. But I was given many opportunities to take advantage of the situation. I politely declined line jumping or waiting our turn for the next bus. It really is the ethics of the person in the scooter.

I wouldn't say it is different than a disability - it is just a temporary disability. It lasts 18 years :funny:
Your child's health comes first :)

Cinderelley
09-19-2013, 05:27 PM
I would also be careful about assuming those really are "dirty looks." Sometimes I furrow my brow when I am thinking (stuff like- "do they need help? Should I go over and offer?") and it may look like I am angry. But I am not. Could be true of other folks.

So a little latitude on all sides might be due :)

Ty Angua. It is nice of you to be concerned for others. I'm sure people see it in your eyes, not your furrowed brow. ;)

MattHolst
09-19-2013, 08:25 PM
As I figured would happen, a lot of people jumped on the offended train and totally missed the point of my original post. Not once did I suggest that anyone in a scooter was faking it or didn't have some real disability. What I stated was the simple fact that it's frustrating for families to stand in line for a long time with tired, cranky kids at the end of the day, only to get bumped from the bus you were waiting on when it gets filled with people who arrive just as the bus pulls up and they and their ENTIRE party gets priority over you. And before you all get too much more judgmental, my youngest son has Autism and it's very difficult for us to try to make him understand why we have to wait for another bus after we just waited 20-30 minutes, especially if he starts to have a melt down. I simply suggested there has to be a more equitable or efficient system to accommodate everyone without families being split up or bumped because of the scooters. We drive our own vehicle now everywhere because of this problem and I posted it not as a gripe but as a way for ideas to be explored as to how the problem could be fixed. It was NOT an indictment on anyone with a disability! Quit being so defensive about every little thing folks!

Opus X
09-19-2013, 08:42 PM
The more I think about this situation and real all the responses..I do think that there HAS to be something done about the abuse of "scooters" and the GAC..(which kudos to Disney for doing that..according to what I read here). The whole story about the abuse of that is sad.
I will say though, All in all..I love WDW transport. Its free and one really CANT complain about it. If someone really wants to get to their resort FAST...then rent a car. I mean it is NOT WDW's responsibility to get you home fast...its OUR responsibility to either..rent a car or not. And, if we CHOOSE not to..then use WDW transport....be glad its available. It has ALWAYS been fast enough for us.
In all the times we have used WDW transport..the wait is minimal and its perfectly fine by me. Standing is not an issue...It a free ride back to my resort..I appreciate it.

DVCJohn
09-20-2013, 04:23 PM
Matt, Did you go back and read your first post that started this thread? You were the one that stated and I quote; "I can see giving priority for wheelchairs, but not for rented scooters". So you assume that people on rented scooters do not have health issues but people in wheelchairs do? Again your words not mine. There were times when my mother was alive that we would have a wheelchair for her (that I pushed) and my father had a scooter. BOTH had (in my father's case still has) health issue that would not allow them to walk through the parks. Both of them hated the idea of having to use the wheelchair and scooter but it was necessary. They also did not like the dirty looks that they got for taking up the space on the bus. I am sorry that you have a child with a condition but you also need to see the other side. While I acknowledge that there is abuse Disney must assume that if a person is in a wheelchair or on a scooter, they have a disability. With this "LAWSUIT CRAZY" society we live in passing over the wrong person will cost Disney serious coin.. I don't want to be confrontational and I now know your family has a special need child. We all need to understand that there are individuals that take advantage of the system and not a lot that any of us can do about it.

Aurora
09-20-2013, 06:04 PM
Here's some food for thought -- what if every single group of people who visited WDW had a person in their party who was in a wheelchair or scooter? What would happen then? Simple: Every party would have to wait in line, the scooters would get priority boarding, the rest of their party would board with them, and everyone would be happy. Because everyone would feel they were treated equally and everyone would have the same expectation.

I think that's the real issue here. It's not really about scooter vs. non, if anyone is abusing the system, etc. It's about whether I should have the expectation of boarding a bus when my turn comes in a queue of people waiting to take their turns.

It's like when a right lane merges into a left lane during road construction. Way back there, you can see the big lighted arrow that shows you need to move to the left. So everyone moves their car into a line in the left lane to wait their turn. But then there's that guy who zooms around all the other cars to go to the head of the right lane and squeezes in. Maybe he had a good reason for doing it, maybe he didn't. Either way, you still get irked. :)

Caroleh
09-21-2013, 09:04 AM
I think before everyone starts talking a out people abusing the scooters, they need to understand that all the people in the scooters medical problems may not be visible. I had the privilege to accompany our dear Ellen(ElenitaB on here), who had to be the scooter because of her cancer. She looked healthy and normal to just about everyone, she didn't have problems getting off her scooter onto the rides and we got several dirty looks. I know Ellen would have loved to do WDW without that scooter.

One night we were leaving EPCOT, Ellen, Ben and another couple had to miss several buses because they didn't have a bus that wasn't handicap accessible or there were scooters in front of her.

I'll be there again in a few weeks with someone who is trying her best to be able to NOT use a scooter that has heart problem, but looks healthy. Please remember that a lot of these people may not want to use the scooters and it's not up to us to judge them....remember one day it could be you and how would you feel to get those dirty looks, when all you want to do is enjoy your vacation.

texas211
09-21-2013, 10:40 AM
I dont even think most people care all that much if/who is using scooters and get on first. It seems the biggest, and I agree, issue is that they usually have like 40 people with them that all get on the buses first. That is what drives me nuts.

But rather than get upset. Maybe I'll just start renting a scooter too. :)

tinklover
09-21-2013, 12:02 PM
I would love to stand in line on my own 2 feet with no pain, but alas I am not that lucky. I have to use a scooter because my one daughter also has some mobility issues and is in a special needs stroller so my fiance pushes her while I use the scooter. We were just there in May and every night when leaving the parks they did not allow anyone in a scooter or a wheel chair to go up to the handicapped spot. we all waited in line just like everyone else. once we got to the front of the line, then they had us go wait and the CM that was there at the spot would tell the others coming up in a scooter or wheelchair to do the same, go get in line. I had no problem doing it that way and I feel it should be done that way always. Again, I would LOVE to be able to walk the parks again like I did when I was younger, but it just can't happen. I hate the stares I get and I hate that I am made to feel bad because I have a disability, now THAT is what is not fair.

MississippiDisneyFreak
09-21-2013, 12:16 PM
Matt, Did you go back and read your first post that started this thread? You were the one that stated and I quote; "I can see giving priority for wheelchairs, but not for rented scooters". So you assume that people on rented scooters do not have health issues but people in wheelchairs do? Again your words not mine. There were times when my mother was alive that we would have a wheelchair for her (that I pushed) and my father had a scooter. BOTH had (in my father's case still has) health issue that would not allow them to walk through the parks. Both of them hated the idea of having to use the wheelchair and scooter but it was necessary. They also did not like the dirty looks that they got for taking up the space on the bus. I am sorry that you have a child with a condition but you also need to see the other side. While I acknowledge that there is abuse Disney must assume that if a person is in a wheelchair or on a scooter, they have a disability. With this "LAWSUIT CRAZY" society we live in passing over the wrong person will cost Disney serious coin.. I don't want to be confrontational and I now know your family has a special need child. We all need to understand that there are individuals that take advantage of the system and not a lot that any of us can do about it.

Exactly! Another point I want to make there was one location we boarded that did not have a clearly marked place for wheelchairs and scooters so we lined up like everyone else. The bus driver scolded my mom and said she should have pulled to the side where he could see her. The problems should be addressed with Disney. They need to set some rules, what ADA requires and their own policy and post them at every stop. I actually think they should limit the boarding party too if possible

Mendelson
09-21-2013, 11:57 PM
It's like when a right lane merges into a left lane during road construction. Way back there, you can see the big lighted arrow that shows you need to move to the left. So everyone moves their car into a line in the left lane to wait their turn. But then there's that guy who zooms around all the other cars to go to the head of the right lane and squeezes in. Maybe he had a good reason for doing it, maybe he didn't. Either way, you still get irked. :)

Actually, traffic engineers say for maximum benefit cars should fill all space in both lanes until the merge point, so maybe he just knows the right thing to do. :mickey:

JerseyDad
09-22-2013, 01:12 AM
Originally Posted by Aurora
It's like when a right lane merges into a left lane during road construction. Way back there, you can see the big lighted arrow that shows you need to move to the left. So everyone moves their car into a line in the left lane to wait their turn. But then there's that guy who zooms around all the other cars to go to the head of the right lane and squeezes in. Maybe he had a good reason for doing it, maybe he didn't. Either way, you still get irked.


...and THAT's the reason I have big jagged spikes mounted on my right side car wheels!! Because when it's rush hour ...it's just like a scene from "Death Race"!! :car: :thedolls:

1DisneyNut
09-22-2013, 01:33 PM
It's like when a right lane merges into a left lane during road construction. Way back there, you can see the big lighted arrow that shows you need to move to the left. So everyone moves their car into a line in the left lane to wait their turn. But then there's that guy who zooms around all the other cars to go to the head of the right lane and squeezes in. Maybe he had a good reason for doing it, maybe he didn't. Either way, you still get irked. :)

I actually do this....every time. It irritates me that most people do not have the common sense to realize they are making the traffic jam worse by merging so far back and bringing an additional stretch down to one lane. What makes it even worse is when you have the A-hole that tries to straddle the two lanes to prevent those like me from going on up and merging.

It is basically an algorithm and physics problem. You will get more throughput by utilizing all lanes as long as possible which allows all lanes to move at a steady pace as long as possible and then each lane making space for the merge while still moving. By stopping and merging a half mile back, you are stopping both lanes at that point which then causes a brake check physics side effect traffic jam to occur miles further back.

Maybe if more people were required to take physics and algorithms they would understand that and merge correctly.


Actually, traffic engineers say for maximum benefit cars should fill all space in both lanes until the merge point, so maybe he just knows the right thing to do. :mickey:

^^^Mendelson obviously understands the math and physics and is correct.

MattHolst
04-21-2017, 02:01 PM
Hello Disney friends! It's funny, I started this post as an observation that it's not exactly fair to someone that has been standing in line for a long time who should reasonably expect a seat on the next bus to get bumped by someone that comes up at the last minute with a large party. I think by citing rental scooters as a source for the bumps, it became an indictment on my compassion with physical challenges. Certainly NOT the case. The main point was there may be a better way to accommodate everyone and not make people that have been waiting a long time to wait longer. I will add this, after years and more trips, I simply just started driving us from the resorts to the parks. I think the tram system does a wonderful job getting people shuttled back and forth, and it's more enjoyable for us as a family to talk quietly about our day in the comfort of the car. And one more final word- WDW and all of the parks do a fantastic job in making everyone feel welcome to the parks and makes it the best experience they can for all. I am glad that the bus system exists for people that can make it work for them and may also have challenges physically, as well as even those folks frightened to drive in some of the crazy traffic sometimes! Everything considered, if you don't like one transportation option, you can take advantage of another as we did. No matter what, let's not lose sight that it is the happiest place on earth and let's enjoy that! Not the petty annoyances! A minor annoyance at Disney beats a wonderful day at work any day of the year! :mickey:

ransam
04-21-2017, 05:23 PM
I have a scooter and I need a scooter. It *****.
People stare at you, make you feel like ****.
It's hard to get a scooter on the bus when it's empty, much less when people are on.
You should be thankful you get to carry your kid, or walk down mainstreet, or go through the ques, Believe me, I would do anything to be in the position to be able to carry my boy but i can't. Sorry you feel it's unfair to you.

LVT
04-22-2017, 02:19 PM
Only 2 scooters/wheel chair lock-downs per bus. The number of visitors grows and as our overall population is aging: more scooters and wheelchairs. The politeness levels may change yearly, but I do no know about that.:D

MrPeetrie
04-24-2017, 09:22 PM
On our last trip to Walt Disney World, we had experienced many episodes exactly as the author MattHoltz posted. Sometimes the situation was obvious, and we had absolutely no qualms at all about stepping aside. Other times, it almost looked like an abuse-of-a-well-intentioned-Disney-policy situation.

I had posited a possible solution:

Suppose Disney had a dedicated transportation system specifically for those who needed special attention. This would entail redesigning all of the bus stops, so that those with special needs would have their access vans located as close to park entrances as possible. Moreover, they would be prioritized based on degree of difficulty. It would require multiple access vans, rather than transportation buses, be located at the first terminal and it would still be a first-come, first-serve basis, with those in the most severe need receiving priority over scooters and such. I think this would not only be most beneficial to those who need added attention, but would also alleviate any resentment park-goers have at the end of a long day when they see a scooter pull up, get first access, and bring 20 guests with them.

PopPhan
04-25-2017, 10:35 AM
On our last trip to Walt Disney World, we had experienced many episodes exactly as the author MattHoltz posted. Sometimes the situation was obvious, and we had absolutely no qualms at all about stepping aside. Other times, it almost looked like an abuse-of-a-well-intentioned-Disney-policy situation.

I had posited a possible solution:

Suppose Disney had a dedicated transportation system specifically for those who needed special attention. This would entail redesigning all of the bus stops, so that those with special needs would have their access vans located as close to park entrances as possible. Moreover, they would be prioritized based on degree of difficulty. It would require multiple access vans, rather than transportation buses, be located at the first terminal and it would still be a first-come, first-serve basis, with those in the most severe need receiving priority over scooters and such. I think this would not only be most beneficial to those who need added attention, but would also alleviate any resentment park-goers have at the end of a long day when they see a scooter pull up, get first access, and bring 20 guests with them.

MAVs would be nice, but then you would need to either have multiples for each resort, or have multiple resort stops for each one.

More reasonable would be that only one 'aide' could be loaded with each scooter/wheelchair/etc. IF there are more in your party, then they have to wait in the normal queue. If all want, or need, to be on the same bus, then they can wait in the queue until all can be accommodated at the same time.

Personally, I really don't have a problem with the current SYSTEM, just with those who try to take undo advantage of it. I almost rented a scooter myself at Disneyland in Dec. '15, but pride or stubbornness made me refuse even though I had 3 slipped disks in my lower back. (Walking back to Paradise Pier at park closings was murder! Specially when I was at the front gates at 7am PST!!! Chiropractor loved me [$$$] for the next 3 weeks! LOL)

Terra
04-25-2017, 01:32 PM
I must be losing brain cells this late in the teaching year, but I'm not getting the difference between a wheel chair and scooter in terms of ADA accomodations. Both are used to help someone.
I always love the whole "SO many people abuse it" line of thought as well.
My first question is: "Have you personally interviewed every single person you've seen on a scooter or in a wheelchair to police that?"

Just because you can't see a special need doesn't mean it does not exist.
I don't know how many times in today's day and age with all the education we have, that people still have that line of thought "well they don't look like they need it."
That is just ignorant and uneducated thinking.

My oldest son [10 years old] gets easily fatigued and often gets migraine rapid onset from his disorder.
He doesn't "look" like he needs to be in a wheel chair, but often I take it with me [a transport chair actually] because of the fatigue, headaches, and also the easy brusing that can happen when someone just bumps into him.

And often in lines people are not so nice and kind of crowd in and shove/push and kids seem to get squeezed in.
So I started using the wheel chair.
Yeah we get looks and stares and judgments.
Just be thankful, like previous posts have said, that [general] you who are complaining don't have the issues than make one in need of a mobility device.

You're at the happiest place on earth. Have to wait an extra 20 minutes in this thing called life, count it joy, get to know the person ahead or behind you. Pass some time making new "friends".
Life could be so much worse.

Disney24-7
04-25-2017, 03:52 PM
I have advanced Lupus. The disease has caused me to have weak lungs and walking makes me dizzy and faint. I have never been to Disney World and it is my dream to go before I cant any more. I am going May 2018. I plan on renting a scooter. After reading all these posts I am worried I will be one of those people getting bad looks and judged. I am young. And I am sure people will be looking at me as an abuser of the system. I can get up and ride rides. I can stand in lines as long as there are breaks and I am sure there are. Heck Ill sit on the ground in line. But as far as going from one end of Main street to the other, frequent breaks would slow my kids and family down and I don't want to be THEIR inconvenience. So, its best I get a scooter. My mom who is going is also in scooter. She has bad knees. So I guess we are really going to be getting the horrible looks. 2 scooters in 1 party. We just want to go and enjoy ourselves like everyone else. Greatfull that we still can.

Its Disney. We are supposed to escape the stressfull harsh world and enter the world of magic and hope. There is plenty of room for everyone. In spite of our differences. Look past the subtle inconveniences and enjoy your vacation with your family. Build memories. You don't want one of them to be how daddy was upset over all the rude scooters. besides, whats that teach the children?

thejens
04-27-2017, 12:37 AM
The last year of my mother's life, she had to ride a scooter because of her pulmonary fibrosis. I imagine she looked young and vibrant to others. She was only 64 when she died. Others may have seen her get out of her scooter and walk a few steps, before her death. I am so very grateful that she was able to come to WDW with us and that she was able to ride attractions and get on the busses with her scooter and that we were able to be with her. I wonder now if others were annoyed if they had to wait for the next bus while we, her children and grandchildren got onto the bus with her. At the time I was just soaking it in, loving my last happy times with my mother. My children don't remember her well. But they love seeing the pictures of them, little, with my mother, at Walt Disney World. People. Life is short. Forgive. Love. Teach your children that waiting a few minutes longer for a bus might allow a grandmother and her children and grandchildren to have a happy memory. Without the accommodations (ie. inconveniences to able bodied, yes.) my mother (and her family) could not have had those last, happy, amazing experiences at WDW. Thank you, THANK YOU, for your patience, for allowing us to have those special, magical times.

vicster
04-27-2017, 09:26 AM
Very well said!!! So glad you were able to spend that special time with your mother - great memories.

bmj721
04-27-2017, 03:22 PM
Due to age and knee replacement recently, I have opted for a scooter few times. And though I respect others opinions and experiences, I can tell you that the cast members have had my husband and I wait at the bus stop for buses to fill up with walkers and strollers and everything, but scooters. We didn't get in a huff, because we realized that logistically it made sense to get as many people on a couple buses to thin out the crowd. And I have seen people just get on the bus though the driver told them to stay off while I was attempting to park the beast. Apparently they didn't care about the potential injury I could have caused.

texas211
05-06-2017, 07:59 PM
I think a lot of the complaints here stem for similar reasons there are tons of issues on planes or at the airport. There could always be more service (more buses), more space, every is kinda roughed up a bit while there (a trip to Disney is more of an endurance test than a relaxing vacay) and so everyone is on edge. Also, everyone waits in long lines for EVERYTHING, and so after seeing folks (who I do think usually need it) but get to go to the front of the line on so many things with their entire party. The entire party thing is what irks me personally. A few people fine, but like 6,7, 10,, yeah no. Plus we've all seen the stories of folks w/ things like autism and such, which is controversial, that further pushes the edge. On top of that, everyone is spending more and more each time we go.

Basically, everyone is getting edgier, which I feel creates more of these conflicts, which may not normally be conflicts.

Cinderelley
05-07-2017, 03:02 AM
I The entire party thing is what irks me personally. A few people fine, but like 6,7, 10,, yeah no.
.

But why shouldn't someone be able to enjoy a ride with their whole family. A parent in a wheelchair should be able to enjoy a ride with their spouse and four children, etc.

RunDMV
05-08-2017, 08:06 AM
I think a lot of the complaints here stem for similar reasons there are tons of issues on planes or at the airport. There could always be more service (more buses), more space, every is kinda roughed up a bit while there (a trip to Disney is more of an endurance test than a relaxing vacay) and so everyone is on edge. Also, everyone waits in long lines for EVERYTHING, and so after seeing folks (who I do think usually need it) but get to go to the front of the line on so many things with their entire party. The entire party thing is what irks me personally. A few people fine, but like 6,7, 10,, yeah no. Plus we've all seen the stories of folks w/ things like autism and such, which is controversial, that further pushes the edge. On top of that, everyone is spending more and more each time we go.

Basically, everyone is getting edgier, which I feel creates more of these conflicts, which may not normally be conflicts.
Uh, what?

Genie1953
05-08-2017, 08:25 AM
My issue with the scooters and wheelchairs is not the actual devices or the people using them but more with the large groups accompanying them. I just don't think it is fair to allow those large groups on with them. Instead allow 2 people on with them and make the others wait and if that means the rest of the group catching the next bus then so be it.

Disney24-7
05-09-2017, 03:32 PM
They paid for their vacation just like everyone else. Families should stay together for their vacation. Wouldn't you want to stay together with yours? Also, what if the party is a chaired mom, a dad and 5 kids. The chair person should have someone care for them and it should be the dad, so what do you suggest he do leave the kids behind? You cant pick and chose and telling a scootered family that they all cant go is discrimination. If we don't all fit, we wait for the next one like everyone else, even walkers. On another note...abusers. So what!!! Those chairs are an extra expense. They paid for them. If they want to enjoy their vacation not being worn out at the end of their day, so be it. Its their business. Who am I to dictate how people get around? Its only an inconvenience if you allow it to be. Since now everyone knows there will be a lot of scooters running around, start the day prepared for it and expecting it. That way you wont be so annoyed since your ready for the "inconvenience".

joanna71985
05-09-2017, 03:35 PM
The amount of people getting on the buses is supposed to be maxed out at 6 total. However, not all bus drivers enforce it

vicster
05-09-2017, 03:48 PM
They paid for their vacation just like everyone else. Families should stay together for their vacation. Wouldn't you want to stay together with yours? .

Very well said!!! I feel thankful that I am able to stand there and wait for the bus!

squijee
05-18-2017, 02:36 PM
We sometimes travel with my Mom and Aunt both of whom are over eighty and use scooters. My hubby and I always stand in the line like everyone else. I do however know your pain about large groups boarding with a wheelchair or scooter. We have had as many as 15 teenagers board with one. However disney will not really enforce rules like this so no one will be offended. That is what we were told when we complained about one person being in line and allowing 15 to 20 to come into line with that person.

Cinderelley
05-22-2017, 03:12 PM
I think part of the problem is that some people only see the "up" side to being in a wheelchair and the inconvenience to them that they perceive. They don't really understand how people in wheelchairs lose out on a lot of things.
I used to have to use a wheelchair. I wanted to see the theming in the line queues so badly, but my body just couldn't handle it.
I want to ride Expedition Everest and Tower of Terror. Taking a spin in Aerosmith's limousine would be amazing. I won't ever be able to ride them. I just spend time browsing in the gift shop while my family rides them. I remember trying to watch the Finding Nemo show once. My body couldn't handle sitting without a back rest for that long.
I would like to be able to just go and go all day and night like I used to. I don't want to slow my family down or make them go back to the hotel room due to me being tired.
I am doing so much better now and only use a GAC instead of a wheelchair. I am very thankful for that, but I still remember what it was like. We were a family of 6 - Myself, my husband, and four children. Our first trip was a family reunion trip of 15 people. I would have felt so left out if Disney wouldn't have let us stay together.

mom2morgan
05-24-2017, 01:31 PM
Let's call a spade a spade - is there an element of fat-shaming in this conversation? I don't think ANYONE is debating the use of these services by people who are disabled for other reasons - but if you are like my husband, he always gets ticked off about "fatties" on scooters clogging up the system when it is their own fault. Now I can SAY that because the last time I went to Disney I weighed nearly 300 pounds and **** near ordered a scooter for myself. God knows, I would have enjoyed the parks more, but I obviously wasn't going to break down and do that, when I already knew my husband's opinion. I had kind of a lousy vacation, actually - I missed out on SO much. There are so many rides over at Universal I wouldn't fit on (or was scared to try), and while Disney rides are much more accomodating, by day 4 my feet were so badly blistered I could barely walk, and I had to stay back at the hotel while the family went on without me (saying I was "tired"). I just feel pretty sure that SOME of the people who object to scooters have that same perspective, so I thought I'd throw that out there ;-) And yeah, weight is something I theoretically have control over - but I don't want that to be a reason why anyone is afraid to do whatever they have to do to make the most of their very expensive vacation!

TheVBs
05-24-2017, 01:42 PM
You know what adds to a wonderful visit to Disney? A little compassion and understanding for others. Actually, that makes for wonderful days no matter where you are. Going through a Disney vacation (or life) being convinced that the majority of any particular group are scammers to justify your feelings of being put out is beyond sad.

Daisy'sMom
05-24-2017, 08:41 PM
I use a walker, or to call it by it's correct name, a rollator. I'm sorry that I have to stand in a different area and that the driver has us board before you. I'm sorry that you have to wait. I would give anything to be like you. But GOD has given me this life and if I try to enjoy a bit of happiness by going to Disney, I hope you understand that while you were riding the attractions and holding hands with your partner or child, I was getting blisters on my hands because I am trying not to fall down. I am having to stop quickly because you have walked right in front of me or your children are running out in front of me. Just try to understand I didn't pick my disability and would trade with you in a heartbeat.

vicster
05-25-2017, 09:34 AM
I use a walker, or to call it by it's correct name, a rollator. I'm sorry that I have to stand in a different area and that the driver has us board before you. I'm sorry that you have to wait. I would give anything to be like you. But GOD has given me this life and if I try to enjoy a bit of happiness by going to Disney, I hope you understand that while you were riding the attractions and holding hands with your partner or child, I was getting blisters on my hands because I am trying not to fall down. I am having to stop quickly because you have walked right in front of me or your children are running out in front of me. Just try to understand I didn't pick my disability and would trade with you in a heartbeat.

Very well said!!!

Genie1953
05-25-2017, 11:12 AM
I am a nurse so I understand completely the needs of people who must use a wheelchair or a scooter. The problem lies with Disney...not with those using mobility devices or their families. They have rights just like the rest of us. If Disney would have some sort of system where an additional bus is provided for persons using mobility devices and their families and maybe those buses could run at specific times and be identified in some way and everyone would know that those buses are first and foremost for those with mobility devices and once those people and their families are on the bus then they can finish filling it with other people. That way it makes it easier for everyone who is in that situation. Now that said...everyone needs to be able to enjoy their vacation and I think it is terrible that those with special needs are sometimes made to feel bad because of others are not more tolerant.

Arielfan98
05-26-2017, 03:04 PM
I am a nurse so I understand completely the needs of people who must use a wheelchair or a scooter. The problem lies with Disney...not with those using mobility devices or their families. They have rights just like the rest of us. If Disney would have some sort of system where an additional bus is provided for persons using mobility devices and their families and maybe those buses could run at specific times and be identified in some way and everyone would know that those buses are first and foremost for those with mobility devices and once those people and their families are on the bus then they can finish filling it with other people. That way it makes it easier for everyone who is in that situation. Now that said...everyone needs to be able to enjoy their vacation and I think it is terrible that those with special needs are sometimes made to feel bad because of others are not more tolerant.

I already suggested this, but others felt this would encourage discrimination.

ransam
05-26-2017, 03:58 PM
Let's call a spade a spade - is there an element of fat-shaming in this conversation? I don't think ANYONE is debating the use of these services by people who are disabled for other reasons - but if you are like my husband, he always gets ticked off about "fatties" on scooters clogging up the system when it is their own fault. Now I can SAY that because the last time I went to Disney I weighed nearly 300 pounds and **** near ordered a scooter for myself. God knows, I would have enjoyed the parks more, but I obviously wasn't going to break down and do that, when I already knew my husband's opinion. I had kind of a lousy vacation, actually - I missed out on SO much. There are so many rides over at Universal I wouldn't fit on (or was scared to try), and while Disney rides are much more accomodating, by day 4 my feet were so badly blistered I could barely walk, and I had to stay back at the hotel while the family went on without me (saying I was "tired"). I just feel pretty sure that SOME of the people who object to scooters have that same perspective, so I thought I'd throw that out there ;-) And yeah, weight is something I theoretically have control over - but I don't want that to be a reason why anyone is afraid to do whatever they have to do to make the most of their very expensive vacation!

Being fat is not a handicap. To call a spade a spade, I am very fat. But I also have 2 arthritic knees (not from being fat, but from years of playing football) and cellulitus from an infectious disease from a few years ago. . I don't use a scooter because i'm fat, i've walked the park when i was, as your husband says, a fattie, I use a scooter because of my knees and legs. if you looked at me, you would see a fattie, but not someone handicaped. I can stand and walk a little way, more than 50 yards though my knees start giving out. If i wore short pants you would see the horrible discoloration on my legs.
I am a fattie and handicapped. But I have a beautiful wife (believe me i lucked out), a son who thinks the world spins around me, I have a sister and her family who adore me. I am one lucky man. we are all going to Disny on Sunday. Without a scooter everyone one of them would help me and if we were l lucky might see 2 parks in our seven days. I need it. but more importantly they need it, as they would go at my pace, but not able to see as much as they deserve.
I see lots of people on scooters who do not look handicapped. Fatties, young, old, skilly people. They look healthy but who am i to judge what is wrong?
Being fat is not a handicap, but being judgemental and assumimg the worst of people you might consider that's a handicap.

ransam
05-26-2017, 04:01 PM
I would bet more accidents are caused by people walking and looking at their phones and texting as opposed to anyone in a scooter. I can't tell you how many times people looking down at their cell phones have run into me and they yell at me for not paying attention. I just smile and say i'm sorry.
Come to think of it, for the safety of everyone should Disney outlaw texting? or have seperate busses for those texing? or a passage for people who are texting?

VWL Mom
05-27-2017, 01:17 PM
I am closing this thread which already ran the gamut in 2013.