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MrPeetrie
08-28-2013, 06:21 PM
Before I begin my dissent, let me first say that despite know the original FastPass system lengthens stand-by wait times, I LOVE it and use it whenever necessary. I have little children and, as wait times grow in length, it becomes indispensable. However, on lighter days we rarely use it. It's a "Use-it-as-needed" perk.

Now my analogy:
Assume for a Magical second there were no FastPasses anymore. If at any given time (for this example, let's say noon) there are 5,000 guests in Standby at the Magic Kingdom then there are exactly 5,000 people in line. Fairly simple. But if I am holding a FastPass, then there are actually 5,001. There are the 5,000 seen, plus an imaginary me in line, holding a place until it's my turn for the real me to take the imaginary me's place. And if it's noon and my return time is 2:30 then there is a 2-and-a-half hour wait of imaginary guests in line unseen. So, using our example, if it's noon and there are 5,000 people in standby PLUS another 2,000 FastPasses distributed, there are actually 7,000 people in line. We can only see the 5,000, but the others are imaginary place-holders.

Under the current system, we use FastPass ONLY AS NEEDED. If we go on a lighter season and the park is manageable, we rarely use FastPass. Sometimes the kiosks are covered as the crowd is lighter.

However, three months from vacation, no one knows how the crowd will be. All of us will reserve every FastPass available to us everyday of our vacation -- needed or not. And as a result, they WILL be needed because we've "artificially" inflated the wait times.

So using my example, it's noon and there are 5,000 in standby with 7,000 FastPasses distributed then there are 12,000 guests waiting in line. And if at noon my return time is 5:00 p.m. then there is a 5-hour wait of unseen place holders until its my turn. This will make spontaneous riding very difficult. We will probably only ride the reserve rides because, despite lines looking short, they will be very long due to the imaginary place-holders. Right now, we never use FastPass for Pirates of the Caribbean. But 3 months away, you better believe I'm reserving a ride because I want to make sure I ride it at least once on our trip.

So why do this? It's billed as an enhancement. When you hear the PLUS side, it sounds reasonable. Currently, we've only managed to ride Toy Story Midway Mania once in two 10-day vacations. Why? We never make it there in time and the FastPasses will have been used up by then. So in that case, I see the positive. But I don't think that's the real reason.

Look at the Dining Plan: It, too, is billed as a PLUS -- a way to better budget your vacation. But look at it's practical implementation. It's made ADRs difficult to come by. Spontaneous meals are more rare. The food quality has dropped off, albeit slightly. And I think the real reason and the stated reason are at odds. While it's advertised as a budgeting PLUS, I think it's a clever attempt to separate the guest from more money.

Studies show, guests budget a certain amount for a vacation and usually stay within that budget, during their stay. A large portion of the budget goes to dining. So, if I bring $5,000 to spend, I will dedicate a large portion to dining and the rest is available for shopping. I believe Disney thought if they could get you to pay the dining portion prior to arrival, the guest would still bring $5,000 to spend, hoping to separate the guest from the whole $5,000 on merchandise. I don't think the Dining Plan is a PLUS at all. I think it's a money grab and it's having negative effects. Others will disagree. And that's good to have that debate.

So back to the FastPass+. I think, while advertised as an enhancement, it is merely a way to have your day micro-managed, leaving much more time for merchandise-purchasing at the expense of attraction-attending. You will ride less, be bored more, and hopefully, spend more money in the stores.

Here's an idea: Put better merchandise in the stores and we'll buy it. Disney people are like no other consumer. We LOVE our Disney. If it's something we want, we'll pay for it. But don't coerce us into a purchase by leaving us with not many other options to spend our time.

Now, I'm not ready to throw the baby out with the bath water. I LOVE coming to WDW and I think they'll work the bugs out. But I have concerns. I'm curious to hear others' comments. Help persuade me to be optimistic.

:confused:

spoiledraf
08-28-2013, 07:33 PM
I believe there will be a limit to the number of fast passes per day available which will blow your numbers out of the water. I tend to believe it is in the best interest of Disney to give the best experience possible. If the test don't work out I think the will can the idea or tinker with it. They have been pretty good at imagineering for many years so I think they will figure it out. Maybe I'm being a little optimistic but that's my opinion and I'm stickin too it! ;-)

MargaretMessler
08-28-2013, 08:12 PM
I subscribe to the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" philosophy, and I really don't see where the old system didn't work fine. I use it more or less like the original poster, as needed. If a line is less than 20 minutes I don't bother, whether it's available or not. I think the only thing they needed to improve on with the original system, was to enforce the time windows, which they have done.

But that's just me. I'm still irritated that I need to plan ADRs so far ahead. I just don't like to live my vacation by a strict schedule. I do enough of that at work.

I'm hoping that the FP+ system will work wonderful and prove me wrong, or that WDW will "can it" as you put it.

Opus X
08-28-2013, 08:59 PM
I believe there will be a limit to the number of fast passes per day available which will blow your numbers out of the water. I tend to believe it is in the best interest of Disney to give the best experience possible. If the test don't work out I think the will can the idea or tinker with it. They have been pretty good at imagineering for many years so I think they will figure it out. Maybe I'm being a little optimistic but that's my opinion and I'm stickin too it! ;-)
Oh, my goodness....Well stated.
It gets a bit old...the amount of negativeness..Concerning this new fast pass system and it hasn't even been "fully" rolled out so to speak. Not one member of this or any forum knows exactly how it will be...(a lot like to think they do) and so many folks are talking like its the end of the world.
Seriously, does anyone really think Disney would make a day at the park so miserable...no one would return? Thats absurd. I have a much higher opinion and i would hope most would of Disney Parks.
Than that. In all my years of traveling to WDW...Since 1990 as an adult. I have never been disappointed...or "let down".
I too am optimistic, this will all be for the better.
I am optimistic because I have NO reason not to be.
:thumbsup: Especially, when it comes to WDW/DLR....

Opus X
08-28-2013, 09:01 PM
Before I begin my dissent, let me first say that despite know the original FastPass system lengthens stand-by wait times, I LOVE it and use it whenever necessary. I have little children and, as wait times grow in length, it becomes indispensable. However, on lighter days we rarely use it. It's a "Use-it-as-needed" perk.

Now my analogy:
Assume for a Magical second there were no FastPasses anymore. If at any given time (for this example, let's say noon) there are 5,000 guests in Standby at the Magic Kingdom then there are exactly 5,000 people in line. Fairly simple. But if I am holding a FastPass, then there are actually 5,001. There are the 5,000 seen, plus an imaginary me in line, holding a place until it's my turn for the real me to take the imaginary me's place. And if it's noon and my return time is 2:30 then there is a 2-and-a-half hour wait of imaginary guests in line unseen. So, using our example, if it's noon and there are 5,000 people in standby PLUS another 2,000 FastPasses distributed, there are actually 7,000 people in line. We can only see the 5,000, but the others are imaginary place-holders.

Under the current system, we use FastPass ONLY AS NEEDED. If we go on a lighter season and the park is manageable, we rarely use FastPass. Sometimes the kiosks are covered as the crowd is lighter.

However, three months from vacation, no one knows how the crowd will be. All of us will reserve every FastPass available to us everyday of our vacation -- needed or not. And as a result, they WILL be needed because we've "artificially" inflated the wait times.

So using my example, it's noon and there are 5,000 in standby with 7,000 FastPasses distributed then there are 12,000 guests waiting in line. And if at noon my return time is 5:00 p.m. then there is a 5-hour wait of unseen place holders until its my turn. This will make spontaneous riding very difficult. We will probably only ride the reserve rides because, despite lines looking short, they will be very long due to the imaginary place-holders. Right now, we never use FastPass for Pirates of the Caribbean. But 3 months away, you better believe I'm reserving a ride because I want to make sure I ride it at least once on our trip.

So why do this? It's billed as an enhancement. When you hear the PLUS side, it sounds reasonable. Currently, we've only managed to ride Toy Story Midway Mania once in two 10-day vacations. Why? We never make it there in time and the FastPasses will have been used up by then. So in that case, I see the positive. But I don't think that's the real reason.

Look at the Dining Plan: It, too, is billed as a PLUS -- a way to better budget your vacation. But look at it's practical implementation. It's made ADRs difficult to come by. Spontaneous meals are more rare. The food quality has dropped off, albeit slightly. And I think the real reason and the stated reason are at odds. While it's advertised as a budgeting PLUS, I think it's a clever attempt to separate the guest from more money.

Studies show, guests budget a certain amount for a vacation and usually stay within that budget, during their stay. A large portion of the budget goes to dining. So, if I bring $5,000 to spend, I will dedicate a large portion to dining and the rest is available for shopping. I believe Disney thought if they could get you to pay the dining portion prior to arrival, the guest would still bring $5,000 to spend, hoping to separate the guest from the whole $5,000 on merchandise. I don't think the Dining Plan is a PLUS at all. I think it's a money grab and it's having negative effects. Others will disagree. And that's good to have that debate.

So back to the FastPass+. I think, while advertised as an enhancement, it is merely a way to have your day micro-managed, leaving much more time for merchandise-purchasing at the expense of attraction-attending. You will ride less, be bored more, and hopefully, spend more money in the stores.

Here's an idea: Put better merchandise in the stores and we'll buy it. Disney people are like no other consumer. We LOVE our Disney. If it's something we want, we'll pay for it. But don't coerce us into a purchase by leaving us with not many other options to spend our time.

Now, I'm not ready to throw the baby out with the bath water. I LOVE coming to WDW and I think they'll work the bugs out. But I have concerns. I'm curious to hear others' comments. Help persuade me to be optimistic.

:confused:

Way too much time thinking about this!!!
Have a cigar and RELAX...The sun WILL come up tomorrow!!

Main Street Jim
08-28-2013, 09:40 PM
Assume for a Magical second there were no FastPasses anymore. If at any given time (for this example, let's say noon) there are 5,000 guests in Standby at the Magic Kingdom then there are exactly 5,000 people in line. Fairly simple. But if I am holding a FastPass, then there are actually 5,001. There are the 5,000 seen, plus an imaginary me in line, holding a place until it's my turn for the real me to take the imaginary me's place.Incorrect.

Your "imaginary me" would be part of that "5,000" number; not "5,001".

An attraction's hourly capacity is limited (you can only fit so many people on a given attraction at any time). You can't "add" any more people onto an attraction than it will hold.


And if it's noon and my return time is 2:30 then there is a 2-and-a-half hour wait of imaginary guests in line unseen. So, using our example, if it's noon and there are 5,000 people in standby PLUS another 2,000 FastPasses distributed, there are actually 7,000 people in line. We can only see the 5,000, but the others are imaginary place-holders.Again, incorrect.

The FastPass system (going back to the current/original system in place) is designed to "hold" 80% of an attraction's hourly capacity. I'll explain.

Say that Space Mountain's hourly capacity is 2,000 people per hour.

80% of that number is 1,600. So, theoretically, 1,600 are in the "virtual" (i.e., "inaginary" line) while 400 are in Stand-by *in a given hour* (at full capacity). The *total* number of guests in line, both virtual (holding a FastPass) and in the Stand-by line, is still only 2,000 guests in line. You might *see* more than 400 people in that stand-by line, but, multiply that number by how long the wait time is (for example, if the wait time is 2 hours, there should be 800 people actually in the stand-by line. It sure might seem like a LOT more, but, in reality, it's not. Think of how the queues are laid out - most guests will stand in a queue in single file. 800 people will *look* like a LOT more in a single-file line, than if they were all side-by-side or three-wide.)

There's going to be *only so many people* on the ride at any given time, regardless of how many people are in line. Besides, according to Reedy Creek fire code, there can only be *so many people* in a given attraction building at any one time as well. That's what the queues and Cast Members are outside for - to control that flow of guests and number of guests coming into an attraction.

Does this make sense to anyone? :confused::confused::confused:

seanyred
08-29-2013, 12:25 AM
Incorrect.

Your "imaginary me" would be part of that "5,000" number; not "5,001".

An attraction's hourly capacity is limited (you can only fit so many people on a given attraction at any time). You can't "add" any more people onto an attraction than it will hold.

Again, incorrect.

The FastPass system (going back to the current/original system in place) is designed to "hold" 80% of an attraction's hourly capacity. I'll explain.

Say that Space Mountain's hourly capacity is 2,000 people per hour.

80% of that number is 1,600. So, theoretically, 1,600 are in the "virtual" (i.e., "inaginary" line) while 400 are in Stand-by *in a given hour* (at full capacity). The *total* number of guests in line, both virtual (holding a FastPass) and in the Stand-by line, is still only 2,000 guests in line. You might *see* more than 400 people in that stand-by line, but, multiply that number by how long the wait time is (for example, if the wait time is 2 hours, there should be 800 people actually in the stand-by line. It sure might seem like a LOT more, but, in reality, it's not. Think of how the queues are laid out - most guests will stand in a queue in single file. 800 people will *look* like a LOT more in a single-file line, than if they were all side-by-side or three-wide.)

There's going to be *only so many people* on the ride at any given time, regardless of how many people are in line. Besides, according to Reedy Creek fire code, there can only be *so many people* in a given attraction building at any one time as well. That's what the queues and Cast Members are outside for - to control that flow of guests and number of guests coming into an attraction.

Does this make sense to anyone? :confused::confused::confused:

Yes. This is how I understand the system to work. Plus not to mention that if a bunch of FastPass holders don't show up then the stand-by line will move faster.

PopPhan
08-29-2013, 09:56 AM
The FastPass system (going back to the current/original system in place) is designed to "hold" 80% of an attraction's hourly capacity.

THIS is the problem I have with the whole FastPass system. 80% is, in my opinion, way too high a number of "hurry up and wait" passes to be given out with the number of people not using the FP system.

A 50/50 split might go the other way, but it would be more reasonable to those trying to relax and enjoy their day without standing in 60+ minute queues.

60/40 would even be a much better distribution - 60% FP / 40% Stand-By.

I really don't think the 'bean counters' know how much they truly distress the 20 people standing (impatiently) in line while 80 others go through on FastPass.

Ms. Mode
08-29-2013, 10:10 AM
I keep reading where "Disney wants to part you from your money" and that's why they try to sale you the DDP; but what about FREE dining? And, let's not forget that Disney is a business. :thumbsup:

Ms. Mode
08-29-2013, 10:13 AM
THIS is the problem I have with the whole FastPass system. 80% is, in my opinion, way too high a number of "hurry up and wait" passes to be given out with the number of people not using the FP system.

A 50/50 split might go the other way, but it would be more reasonable to those trying to relax and enjoy their day without standing in 60+ minute queues.

60/40 would even be a much better distribution - 60% FP / 40% Stand-By.

I really don't think the 'bean counters' know how much they truly distress the 20 people standing (impatiently) in line while 80 others go through on FastPass.

Maybe they do! Maybe that's part of the thought process behind FP+...just say'n :mickey:

hoop de do
08-29-2013, 10:26 AM
:crazy::crazy::crazy:

GoBlueLacheta
08-29-2013, 10:53 AM
With the Magic Bands and the stations , it seems that a lot of these kiosks are at attractions that really have no use for FP+ except to appear that you are building value and convenience by knowing what time you can essentially walk on a ride with little wait even if that ride has little or no wait to begin with.

As far as numbers are concerned, there are really only a few attractions that "run out" of FP at some point during the day based upon season. It seems more reasonable to reduce or increase the amount of FP available based on attendance numbers.

At Disney World, you have issues at 3 of the slowest loading E-Ticket attractions. Toy Story Mania, Test Track, and Soarin. You want to make sure that if you plan a DW vacation and if these attractions are open that you get to ride, I understand that part, but making one plan what time they are going to ride a continuous circuit ride like Spaceship Earth seems a bit silly.

Also, you have to take into consideration the "types" of rides they are. Almost everyone will want to go on Toy Story Mania as it is not a thrill ride and appeals to all ages.

Ian
08-29-2013, 11:43 AM
It's a myth that FP lengthens stand-by lines. Once you recognize that there are a finite number of people who can pass through a line in a given period of time and a finite number of guests it should be readily evident that FP would have no impact on overall wait times.

If there was no FP those folks in the FP line would be in the stand-by lines anyway, so they'd be ahead of you one way or the other.

PopPhan
08-29-2013, 12:01 PM
It's a myth that FP lengthens stand-by lines. Once you recognize that there are a finite number of people who can pass through a line in a given period of time and a finite number of guests it should be readily evident that FP would have no impact on overall wait times.

If there was no FP those folks in the FP line would be in the stand-by lines anyway, so they'd be ahead of you one way or the other.

Very true, but the perception of someone standing in a static line while others can just walk up and be allowed on before them is disheartening.

I have been in a stand-by line on Soarin' with no one in the FastPass line and stood there for 15 minutes because the CM was waiting for FP people to come up so he could make his hourly FP quota. (Of course, in the case of Soarin', it really didn't matter because there were two more lines to wait in before boarding anyway!! -- The approach line (from the CM to the boarding area), then the boarding area itself.

It was the same thing with TSMM, but in that case, it was walk on, so the CM didn't hold us back. (YES, there was a time that TSMM actually had NO WAIT!!!! It was during an afternoon session of LMA. The CM told us that when LMA is having a show, TSMM lines go down quite a bit.)

Aurora
08-29-2013, 01:04 PM
I have been in a stand-by line on Soarin' with no one in the FastPass line and stood there for 15 minutes because the CM was waiting for FP people to come up so he could make his hourly FP quota.

Yeah, I don't and never have had a problem with people using or not using FPs. I do have a problem with the way the system is carried out by CMs at some rides, specifically Soarin'. I experienced the same thing as PopPhan on a recent trip. There we stood in standby, not moving, while no one was in the FP queue. It was a little kind of crazy.

If a CM is holding the standby line back in favor of FP riders who aren't even there to take their seat, it doesn't matter how much you understand about FP. You tend to get a little miffed.

WDWdriver
08-29-2013, 01:30 PM
If a CM is holding the standby line back in favor of FP riders who aren't even there to take their seat, it doesn't matter how much you understand about FP. You tend to get a little miffed.

Sigh :rolleyes:. Sounds like another CM training issue, or perhaps a case of inflexibility on the part of the CM's managers. There is a defined ratio of FP vs Standby guests for each attraction, and each CM is trained in working the merge position. But that doesn't (or shouldn't) mean that CMs must strictly apply that ratio. Ideally, CMs should be able to use a little common sense and adjust the ratio according to the situation at the time.

Main Street Jim
08-29-2013, 10:49 PM
Sigh :rolleyes:. Sounds like another CM training issue, or perhaps a case of inflexibility on the part of the CM's managers. There is a defined ratio of FP vs Standby guests for each attraction, and each CM is trained in working the merge position. But that doesn't (or shouldn't) mean that CMs must strictly apply that ratio. Ideally, CMs should be able to use a little common sense and adjust the ratio according to the situation at the time.What Ron said.

Whenever I worked at a FP attraction, I *never* had a wait in my FP line. If I "rotated" to FP merge point, and my FP side was backed up, I'd "dump" the FP side first, before I did anything else. Once my FP side was clear of guests, then my "standby" line could move/load more freely. I *kept both lines moving*. If there was say, 150 people in my FP line when I got to the merge position, they got on first before I'd move the standby side. As long as my loaders could load/move people, I could keep the standby line moving as well as keep my FP side clear.

And, like Ron said, it should be "common sense" that if there are no guests in the FP side, then CMs *should* be keeping the standby side moving. But, a LOT of CM's are told *during training*, "80/20", so, that's what they tend to stick to, even when there are no guests on FP. :/

To the original poster:
FastPass does NOT "lengthen" standby wait times. There will *never* be more FastPasses distributed than the number of guests that an attraction can hold, because those are only a percentage of total guest capacity.

Tekneek
08-30-2013, 09:37 AM
I tend to believe it is in the best interest of Disney to give the best experience possible.

I wouldn't agree completely with this. Disney merely wants to provide an experience that is good enough to keep the cash rolling in. History indicates that Disney guests don't demand the best possible. They want an experience that is on-par with others, and maybe only marginally better. They also don't mind paying a lot more for it than they used to. If somebody in Disney management started insisting that Disney do the best it possibly could, they would be sacked in short order.

Tekneek
08-30-2013, 09:42 AM
And, like Ron said, it should be "common sense" that if there are no guests in the FP side, then CMs *should* be keeping the standby side moving. But, a LOT of CM's are told *during training*, "80/20", so, that's what they tend to stick to, even when there are no guests on FP. :/

Sounds like they're getting a lot more people who do what they're told instead of understanding the purpose/goal and using their own judgment to get there. I think we've all worked with those two different types at some time. People who cannot think outside of the box and then those who understand what we're trying to accomplish without needing everything spelled out to the letter.

seanyred
08-30-2013, 03:19 PM
Sigh :rolleyes:. Sounds like another CM training issue, or perhaps a case of inflexibility on the part of the CM's managers. There is a defined ratio of FP vs Standby guests for each attraction, and each CM is trained in working the merge position. But that doesn't (or shouldn't) mean that CMs must strictly apply that ratio. Ideally, CMs should be able to use a little common sense and adjust the ratio according to the situation at the time.

I have seen this lack of common sense often at TSM. I remember standing near the merge and no one was in the FP line. But those of us in Stand-by had to wait until the CM counted enough FP people. It was very frustrating. The walkway over the attraction was empty once we got let through. I sometimes wonder if some CMs don't understand the concept of a moving line is good for everyone. I'd rather have a hour wait moving often than a hour wait standing still most of the time. It is much easier to tolerate if you feel you are making progress.

Jared
08-30-2013, 04:20 PM
If there was no FP those folks in the FP line would be in the stand-by lines anyway, so they'd be ahead of you one way or the other.
Ian, I'm generally with you here, but I'm not convinced this is completely true.

If Fastpass didn't exist, all of the imaginary line-waiting placeholders would all turn into real people waiting in line. That's obvious.

But would all of those people be waiting in the same line that they are instead holding a Fastpass for? In other words: Now, if I walk up to Space Mountain and see a 60-minute wait, I simply get a Fastpass and the imaginary me gets in line while the real me goes to do other things. In a world without Fastpass, if I walk up to Space Mountain and see a 60-minute wait, or a 45-minute wait, or whatever it is, I'm probably balking and moving on to something else. Does that make sense?

Fastpass has essentially eliminated "balking" as an option. It allows people to wait in line virtually with no incentive not to wait in line. It also lets people, in some situations, to wait in multiple lines virtually at the same time, which I believe does in fact lead to longer waits at certain headliner attractions.

I don't know. This is all above my pay grade. But I'm just not totally sure that all of the people who have Fastpasses would necessarily be waiting in the standby line if Fastpass didn't exist.

Jared
08-30-2013, 04:28 PM
Just to further demonstrate that this is all clearly above my pay grade and I really don't understand it, here's a question:

Why is an attraction's hourly capacity relevant in this discussion? A few people have mentioned it as proof that Fastpass doesn't artificially increase wait times, but I'm having trouble getting why it's related.

By that logic -- again, as far as I can glean with my limited brainpower -- all attractions should have a maximum wait time based on its capacity, but that's clearly not the case.

I'm so confused.

Main Street Jim
08-30-2013, 05:00 PM
Why is an attraction's hourly capacity relevant in this discussion? A few people have mentioned it as proof that Fastpass doesn't artificially increase wait times, but I'm having trouble getting why it's related.Nothing to be, or get, confused about. :)

Reason why I mentioned the capacity, is because the number of FastPasses distributed during an operating day is a percentage of the hourly capacity (80%). If a park is open later (with the exception of EMH's), then there's more FP's to get distributed.

Again...you can only have a finite number of guests in a park. You can only put so many people onto a ride at any given time. Again, I'll use Space as an example.

6 people per rocket - you can't get any more people than that into one rocket.

13 rockets per side - 6 x 13 = 78 people *on* the ride - on one side - at a time. Multiply times the two sides, you get 156 people actually *on the ride*.

The attraction (*any* attraction) is going to take "so long" to experience. You can't *make* the attraction go any faster - without some sort of safe interval between rockets.

And with only so many operating hours in a day at the parks, you can only fit so many people through the ride in one operating day. The line for the queue is only going to be "so long", because not *every* single guest will be in *one* attraction line.


It also lets people, in some situations, to wait in multiple lines virtually at the same time, which I believe does in fact lead to longer waits at certain headliner attractions.I'd have to say "Incorrect" on this one. A single person can only *physically* be in one line at one time. The Fastpass system is designed to remove that physical human from one attraction queue and allow them to be in another (it *may* be at another "headliner" because they already hold an active FastPass. But because there are other guests who hold FP's to that second attraction, the line is still the same wait time. Who knows?). The "virtual" human isn't waiting in a stand-by line; they're waiting on the "FastPass" line side of things, even though they may physically be somewhere else.

joonyer
08-30-2013, 05:08 PM
Just to further demonstrate that this is all clearly above my pay grade and I really don't understand it, here's a question:

Why is an attraction's hourly capacity relevant in this discussion? A few people have mentioned it as proof that Fastpass doesn't artificially increase wait times, but I'm having trouble getting why it's related.

By that logic -- again, as far as I can glean with my limited brainpower -- all attractions should have a maximum wait time based on its capacity, but that's clearly not the case.

I'm so confused.

OK I'll give it a shot. Let's say (for the purpose of this discussion) that an attraction has a capacity of 100 riders per hour.

If 500 people want to ride and they all are in line at the same time, then the people at the end of the queue will have a 5-hour wait until they finish the ride.

Now add FassPasses to the equation. If 200 of those people have a FastPass they will get to get in line somewhere ahead of the folks at the end of the standby line (which would have 300 people in it now). BUT, the people at the end of the standby line would still have to wait 5 hours (and no longer) to ride. The ride still only through puts 100 riders per hour, no matter what order you put the riders in.

It all comes down to where you are in the queue. Get there first thing, and you are in the front of the line. Using a FastPass just allows some guests to "cut" in line, and thus wait less time, but it doesn't change the overall wait time for those in the back of the line. If 500 people are ahead of you, either actually or virtually, you still have to wait the same amount of time.

The complaint about standby times increasing is really comes from your perception of where are are in queue. If you get in the standby line and there are 100 actual people ahead of you, then you would expect it should take you 1 hour to ride. Now add 50 FastPassers who are allowed to get on the ride somewhere ahead of you, then it will take you 1.5 hours to ride, so in that sense it does apparently increase SOME guests wait time in the line over the case IF there were no FastPasses. But remember those FastPassers ARE virtually in the queue ahead of you, they just aren't visible until they show up and get in the FP queue. So the overall wait time is not actually increased by having fast passes. Remember Disney limits the number of Fastpasses issued per hour, so only a limited number of those 500 quests in our example can get a FastPass in any particular hour.

The same number of guests can ride an attraction per hour (or day), whether there is a FastPass option or not, so that is why FastPasses do not affect overall wait times. They don't have any effect on ride capacity. But they do have a perceived effect on some guests wait times, depending on where they may be within the queue, when the Fastpassers get admitted.

MrPeetrie
08-30-2013, 09:36 PM
I did not articulate (defend) my fear well enough and I see I've upset some people. Without attempting to anger anyone, I will try again to better explain my position.

For this discussion:

A = Attendance. (It changes from day to day, but for my examples it will be a constant)

F = Total Number of FastPasses available on a given day at Magic Kingdom. (There is a finite number here. I'm not privy to the answer, but if every available time slot were passed out, there would be a definite number.)

X = Total Number of FastPasses used. On an ordinary day X <= .5*F. In fact, it's probably much less.

Today, a coefficient of A impacts X. So if the crowd is light, X will be small. If a ride has its FastPass Kiosk covered, ALL the ride throughput will come from the standby line. If A is heavy, then as others in the know have stated, it will operate at a 80-20 ratio. The point is, A affects X, which then determines how the line is handled.

However, once the new system is in place, A will have NO EFFECT ON X. You will have three months to select your FastPass time slots. Moreover, X will almost certainly = F. Think this through and I hope you'll see my point.

When the park opens at 9:00 a.m. EVERY AVAILABLE FASTPASS SLOT WILL ALREADY BE DESIGNATED That means EVERY ride will run at a 80-20 ratio, servicing FastPasses before standbys. I want to repeat that: every ride will handle its standby at an 80-20 ratio because all the FastPasses will have been distributed. That's why the kiosks will be going away. On a given day, each guest will have had three months to select their time slots. Unless people refuse to use it, most -- if not all -- of the available FastPass slots for the park will be assigned before rope drop. And they're setting up FastPasses on rides that heretofore did not need them, like Pirates of the Caribbean. (Want to ride POTC without an hour wait? Better have a FastPass. Want to ride It's a Small World without an hour wait? Better have a FastPass! (if it has one. I haven't been there in a while.))

Does that explain my fear any better?

Altair
08-30-2013, 09:45 PM
The Fastpass system is designed to remove that physical human from one attraction queue and allow them to be in another.

So that person is in two lines at one time, making one of the lines longer than it should be and thus increasing wait time for the stand-by line. You have just artificially increased park attendance. :thedolls:

Nascfan
08-30-2013, 10:48 PM
Mr. Peetrie, I'm not in a position to dispute nor confirm your fear of longer standby waits after FP+, but I feel I can dispel some of your "facts". I'm not sure where you are getting 90 days from, but it's pretty common knowledge that will not happen. It's going to be a max of 60 days in advance, and even that is not set in stone. Pull up youtube and search on mousesteps weekly. These people have been part of the test several times and have some very good information out there. Also, kiosks will not be going away, in fact there will be several positioned throughout the parks, and they demonstrate these in their videos. Finally, there is NO evidence that all FP+'s will be distributed before the day of, in fact, they address that very issue in their videos. So, my advice to everyone is to relax a little bit and see what this really does before we claim armagedon. If you are able to be part of a test, go for it and give Disney your feedback. If you are not able to be part of a test, email or call Disney with some of your concerns and get answers from the source.

MrPeetrie
08-30-2013, 11:50 PM
I did get to test it out on our September trip. I waited about a week or so before I tried reserving any times. The options available to me were not anything for which I wanted to FastPass, nor were the available times convenient as we had ADRs that conflicted. (The good things, like preferred parade seating, were already gone.) I used it for one attraction anyway, but I forgot the time because I didn't have a ticket. So, I'm not a good judge.

I have a long, long (agonizing long) time before my next trip. By the time we go back, I'll know if it's a hit or miss. But until then, I only have time for contemplation. There are so many things Disney rolls out that I highly anticipate (expansions, the RFID bracelets, etc.), but this is something I am not excited about. And since I won't be there for a while, I'm just expressing some concerns. Who know? Perhaps, forums like this raise questions for designers and Imagineers that allow for adjustments prior to implementation.

Main Street Jim
08-31-2013, 01:22 AM
So that person is in two lines at one time, making one of the lines longer than it should be and thus increasing wait time for the stand-by line. You have just artificially increased park attendance. :thedolls:No, because, depending on the attraction, that person is not actually "counted" on one ride until they *physically* go through the turnstile (Speedway), Merge point (Space), or exit (Splash Mountain).

Tekneek
08-31-2013, 07:55 AM
With the Magic Bands and the stations , it seems that a lot of these kiosks are at attractions that really have no use for FP+ except to appear that you are building value and convenience by knowing what time you can essentially walk on a ride with little wait even if that ride has little or no wait to begin with.


They had to add it to everything or FP+ would surely have been a bust. If 60 days out, everybody went on and found out NO FP+ were available for anything, people would go nuts. So we're going to have people scheduling FP+ for the most ridiculous of things, since they will "have to schedule something" despite all the top tier attractions being booked up. It is absurd that Disney would even accept a FP+ booking for an attraction that is very likely to be a walk-on at that same moment.

When I was a much younger adult, I used to think that most people had the same taste as me in music. I would call up the local record store on release day and ask them to hold the latest CD from an obscure band. Most of the time they would do it, but one day this girl says, "I don't need to hold any for you, we're not going to sell out of those today." After that, I realized that there would be plenty of CDs and I didn't need to rush down or get any special accommodation for it. Disney needs a version of that girl on the other side of FP+ to say, "Oh, you're not going to need that one. You're wasting that slot reserving that time for that attraction."

CaptSmee
08-31-2013, 10:44 AM
I agree that we reserved FP+ more than we normally would use FP. I'm pretty sure that they're limiting how many you get during each time frame just like the old system.

I completely agree with you about merchandise. I would buy anything that k liked & its always the same 'old same 'old.

TheVBs
08-31-2013, 12:28 PM
I used it for one attraction anyway, but I forgot the time because I didn't have a ticket. So, I'm not a good judge.

This is probably what would happen to us. Without a ticket I'll have to write the time down on something else and take it with us, because we'll forget otherwise.:blush:

Tekneek
08-31-2013, 12:38 PM
This is probably what would happen to us. Without a ticket I'll have to write the time down on something else and take it with us, because we'll forget otherwise.:blush:

Did you have the app on a smartphone with you? It would make a lot of sense for the app to push notifications to the device of choice, or for MDE to send an SMS to your number of choice to remind you of your FP+ reservations at defined time intervals. It's a major oversight if they didn't build that in.

sara114
08-31-2013, 01:20 PM
What happens if the ride you are 'scheduled' to ride breaks down? (ie. Splash Mtn) How are they going to work around that?

TheVBs
08-31-2013, 01:43 PM
Did you have the app on a smartphone with you? It would make a lot of sense for the app to push notifications to the device of choice, or for MDE to send an SMS to your number of choice to remind you of your FP+ reservations at defined time intervals. It's a major oversight if they didn't build that in.

Haven't actually been to the parks to try this out yet. And, we don't have smartphones. :blush: In fact, we usually don't even bring our cell phones with us, but we did sometimes on the last trip, just because we knew there would be times when we'd split up. I'm sure at some point we'll end up with smartphones, and if we think the app will help, we'll get it. But, wouldn't get a smartphone just to make this work. So unfortunately, I can't answer your question about whether the app does that for you.

WDWdriver
08-31-2013, 03:32 PM
What happens if the ride you are 'scheduled' to ride breaks down? (ie. Splash Mtn) How are they going to work around that?

They have actually thought of that. If your FP attraction breaks down before or during your FP window, you will quickly receive an email (assuming you are carrying an email capable phone). The email will offer you a list of alternative attractions that will accept your wristband or RFID card during the same window.

And what if the breakdown occurs late in the day? The email you receive will list attractions that will accept you the following day without any switching of reservations on your part.

And if you have no way to receive the email, you can go to any of the MyMagic+ kiosks in the park to get the same information.

Main Street Jim
08-31-2013, 03:33 PM
What happens if the ride you are 'scheduled' to ride breaks down? (ie. Splash Mtn) How are they going to work around that?If your FP is "scheduled" for a time that an attraction is down due to "technical difficulties", they *should* honor all FP's that "expired" during that downtime.

Dulcee
08-31-2013, 03:37 PM
I did not articulate (defend) my fear well enough and I see I've upset some people. Without attempting to anger anyone, I will try again to better explain my position.

For this discussion:

A = Attendance. (It changes from day to day, but for my examples it will be a constant)

F = Total Number of FastPasses available on a given day at Magic Kingdom. (There is a finite number here. I'm not privy to the answer, but if every available time slot were passed out, there would be a definite number.)

X = Total Number of FastPasses used. On an ordinary day X <= .5*F. In fact, it's probably much less.

Today, a coefficient of A impacts X. So if the crowd is light, X will be small. If a ride has its FastPass Kiosk covered, ALL the ride throughput will come from the standby line. If A is heavy, then as others in the know have stated, it will operate at a 80-20 ratio. The point is, A affects X, which then determines how the line is handled.

However, once the new system is in place, A will have NO EFFECT ON X. You will have three months to select your FastPass time slots. Moreover, X will almost certainly = F. Think this through and I hope you'll see my point.

When the park opens at 9:00 a.m. EVERY AVAILABLE FASTPASS SLOT WILL ALREADY BE DESIGNATED That means EVERY ride will run at a 80-20 ratio, servicing FastPasses before standbys. I want to repeat that: every ride will handle its standby at an 80-20 ratio because all the FastPasses will have been distributed. That's why the kiosks will be going away. On a given day, each guest will have had three months to select their time slots. Unless people refuse to use it, most -- if not all -- of the available FastPass slots for the park will be assigned before rope drop. And they're setting up FastPasses on rides that heretofore did not need them, like Pirates of the Caribbean. (Want to ride POTC without an hour wait? Better have a FastPass. Want to ride It's a Small World without an hour wait? Better have a FastPass! (if it has one. I haven't been there in a while.))

Does that explain my fear any better?

I think your making assumptions here that can't be made...

I'd like to see what the actual distribution to use ratio is for the current fast pass system. I think your estimate of 50% is really, really low.

Also attendance will always effect the number of fast passes used. Whether those fast passes are assigned two months in advance or two hours. You need a "body" assigned to each pass. More people, more fast passes used (of the allotted and assumed constant pool). If 100 people visit in July and each can get 3 fast passes in a day then you have 300 assigned fast passes. If you only have 50 visit in August, still at three fast passes each, then you only have 150 assigned and obviously still less used then July.

Actually I'd wager that some folks will end up with less fast passes then used in the past. I know when we planned accordingly we'd used 6-7 in a single day. Now everyone is limited to a constant of 3, giving disney further control of the variables within the system.

You're also assuming that every person who books a trip will actually use Fast pass plus, not every guest uses the current system. I doubt every guest would use this new one.


I really do think WDW has minds (or computers) behind this that are better then numbers then you or I. I still think this is a lot of panic over nothing...

Dsnygirl
08-31-2013, 06:38 PM
I have not read through this entire thread - I got about 3/4 of the way through and was too confused to continue. :blush:

But - as an original "naysayer" to this whole thing, I have to say that things I learned from CM's in the queues last week have made me feel better.

1 - whether 60 or 90 days out, you are only going to be allowed to book 3 FP+ rides/day. The rest will be getting "real" FP's while you are in the parks, if you so choose.

2 - every ride we saw had a FP+ being added to it, with the exception of the carousel at MK. So, with that in mind, many first timers (or people with children too small to ride the big rides) are going to pick rides I have no intention of FP'ing. That leaves more rides open for me to pick.

So - if on my next trip I have picked my meals 180 days out, that means I also have a pretty good idea which parks I will be in, based off my meals and released park hours. Granted, that changes - even this last trip, we re-arranged ADR's and changed parks the day before d/t forecasted weather.

But - if I have been "forced" to pick parks d/t hours and meals, suffice to say picking 3 "special" rides to FP+ in our "park choice of the day" shouldn't be all that difficult. And b/c I can ONLY choose 3, I no longer feel that I am being forced to plan out my entire day. I would honestly be more than happy to know I can get to DHS at 10am with a FP+ time of 1pm and be able to relax and ride RnRc 5 times in the meantime!! ;)

Anyway - like I said, I was originally somebody TOTALLY against this new system - but I saw it working flawlessly in the dining arena, and working really well for those people we saw trialing it while we were there. So, I am carefully optimistic that maybe this WILL work out well for us in the future. :fingers:

Jared
08-31-2013, 06:49 PM
1 - whether 60 or 90 days out, you are only going to be allowed to book 3 FP+ rides/day. The rest will be getting "real" FP's while you are in the parks, if you so choose
Blythe, I'm pretty sure this is only true during the testing phase. Once the system is fully implemented, the plan is to eliminate the traditional Fastpass system.

I know some front-line Cast Members have been saying otherwise, but I'm pretty sure they're incorrect. Can anybody confirm?

Dsnygirl
08-31-2013, 07:00 PM
Blythe, I'm pretty sure this is only true during the testing phase. Once the system is fully implemented, the plan is to eliminate the traditional Fastpass system.

I know some front-line Cast Members have been saying otherwise, but I'm pretty sure they're incorrect. Can anybody confirm?

I so hope that somebody confirms what the CM's are telling people... I adamantly refuse to FP+ my whole trip, and think it makes no sense, anyway. Disney MUST know nobody would even remotely want to do that, having a limited number daily makes so much more sense. Keeping :fingers:....

VWL Mom
08-31-2013, 07:11 PM
Blythe, I'm pretty sure this is only true during the testing phase. Once the system is fully implemented, the plan is to eliminate the traditional Fastpass system.

I know some front-line Cast Members have been saying otherwise, but I'm pretty sure they're incorrect. Can anybody confirm?


I so hope that somebody confirms what the CM's are telling people... I adamantly refuse to FP+ my whole trip, and think it makes no sense, anyway. Disney MUST know nobody would even remotely want to do that, having a limited number daily makes so much more sense. Keeping :fingers:....

I'm going to be no help here. Blythe and I were there the same week and the 2 CM's i spoke to said there will be no regular FP machines just FP+ kiosks. :confused:

I'm sure the FP+ is working well for those testing because there are a limited number of people using the system. I wonder what will happen when the flip the switch and all of a sudden everyone needs to book FP+. For a system that can't handle heavy ADR days one can only imagine.

WDWdriver
08-31-2013, 07:45 PM
I'm going to be no help here. Blythe and I were there the same week and the 2 CM's i spoke to said there will be no regular FP machines just FP+ kiosks.

Last week I attended one of the CM "Town Hall" information sessions hosted by members of the MyMagic+ implementation team. We were told that once the full roll out of MyMagic+ takes place the traditional paper Fast Pass system will be eliminated. All of the existing FP distribution machines will be removed from attraction entrances. After that happens all guests will have either Magic Bands or plastic RFID cards for park admission and Fast Pass. Guests wishing to reserve FP locations and times before their visit will do so up to 60 days in advance through a My Disney Magic internet account. Day trippers or guests not wishing to reserve FP in advance will still be able to book same day FPs at kiosks located throughout the parks, but availability will obviously be reduced by those who booked in advance.

Like it or not, this is part of MyMagic+ that by all accounts Disney has invested more than a billion dollars in. The roll out is a certainty at this point, and only time will time what happens after that.

DizneyFreak2002
08-31-2013, 07:47 PM
1 - whether 60 or 90 days out, you are only going to be allowed to book 3 FP+ rides/day. The rest will be getting "real" FP's while you are in the parks, if you so choose.

Not true... During testing phase, the regular FP was open to everyone, including those who were testers... Once this is officially live, regular FP is going to go away... So it is FP+ or bust...


So - if on my next trip I have picked my meals 180 days out, that means I also have a pretty good idea which parks I will be in, based off my meals and released park hours. Granted, that changes - even this last trip, we re-arranged ADR's and changed parks the day before d/t forecasted weather.

Unless, of course, you act like a human and have a change of plans... Disney wants you to act like a drone and have them control every aspect of your vacation... They don't want you to control it or else you may venture off site and find places adding new and exciting things for guests to do, unlike WDW where it is basically the same stale product year after year...

MrPeetrie
08-31-2013, 08:20 PM
I think your making assumptions here that can't be made...


Also attendance will always effect the number of fast passes used. Whether those fast passes are assigned two months in advance or two hours. You need a "body" assigned to each pass. More people, more fast passes used (of the allotted and assumed constant pool). If 100 people visit in July and each can get 3 fast passes in a day then you have 300 assigned fast passes. If you only have 50 visit in August, still at three fast passes each, then you only have 150 assigned and obviously still less used then July.


Attendance cannot have an effect because the FastPasses will be distributed prior to the gates opening. Only reservations can have an effect. More reservations mean more people to reserve FastPasses. Less reservations means the converse. Acquiring FastPasses at the day of arrival will disappear.

As a test subject last year, I got to try it out first hand. I did not reserve my times immediately. I just played around with it. As a result, many of the desirable options were greyed out. What was left was really nothing for which I would use a FastPass. But I did learn a lesson: when I go back and this is in force, book FastPasses early!!! Everyone will do the same.

You can argue with me if you wish, but the truth is when you are in a queue line, you are a place holder for your position until it is your time to ride. When you have a FastPass, it is a place holder, for which you replace at the last minute, for you to ride. There is NO DIFFERENCE. Citing maximum throughput of a ride has no bearing on the number of people waiting for that ride.

So, because no one knows what attendance will be 60 days out, coupled with seeing available options disappear rapidly, I contend more FastPasses will be distributed than would normally be distributed. This will "artificially" inflate the number of queued riders. This will make stand-by move more slowly. This will make guests stay on schedule even more so than they do now.

MrPeetrie
08-31-2013, 08:27 PM
Dulcee, I apologize if I sounded harsh there. I just read it and it sounded mean-spirited. That was not my intention. I was just trying to defend my position.

I HOPE, HOPE, HOPE I'm wrong. But I think this will need a lot of tweeks before it is well received.

Dsnygirl
08-31-2013, 09:59 PM
Unless, of course, you act like a human and have a change of plans... Disney wants you to act like a drone and have them control every aspect of your vacation... They don't want you to control it or else you may venture off site and find places adding new and exciting things for guests to do, unlike WDW where it is basically the same stale product year after year...

Like I said in my original post, we understand that our plans will change - we changed plans this last trip, and plan to continue feeling able to do that, regardless of FP+ ressies. It may cancel out a ride, or even make an ADR unavailable, but I will NOT be locked into a schedule. We have been to Disney enough that if we miss a ride, it won't kill us - and we also know enough to be sure to get the stuff we love done EARLY in the trip, so that if we choose to change and go the spontaneous route later on, it won't really matter.

The people I feel sorry for are the newbies - they will feel very locked in and stressed, rushing ride to ride, searching maps so they don't miss their time - and they may or may not know ahead of time just how far the walk between their chosen rides may be. :(

I actually encountered a man at MK this past trip who was saying to his wife, "I am sick of all these people walking around w/o maps, acting like they know where they're going!" Made me laugh... it's only going to get crazier when EVERYONE'S on a mission!! :ack:

Tekneek
09-01-2013, 08:29 AM
Like it or not, this is part of MyMagic+ that by all accounts Disney has invested more than a billion dollars in. The roll out is a certainty at this point, and only time will time what happens after that.

As we feared. These testing periods are just part of the ramp up and not feasibility testing to confirm that it is even a good idea. That ship has sailed. It is going live even if it ends up being an albatross around their necks.

Today was the first day I could book FP+ and already having trouble with it. It has twice now accepted reservations for a party of 5 and then later changed them to party of 4 (leaving off my wife).

Dulcee
09-01-2013, 09:03 AM
Attendance cannot have an effect because the FastPasses will be distributed prior to the gates opening. Only reservations can have an effect. More reservations mean more people to reserve FastPasses. Less reservations means the converse. Acquiring FastPasses at the day of arrival will disappear.

As a test subject last year, I got to try it out first hand. I did not reserve my times immediately. I just played around with it. As a result, many of the desirable options were greyed out. What was left was really nothing for which I would use a FastPass. But I did learn a lesson: when I go back and this is in force, book FastPasses early!!! Everyone will do the same.



Attendance or Reservations, however you want to look at it the number of people who stream into a park in a day does effect the number of fast passes used, which ultimately is what effects wait times.

By limiting fast passes to 3 you have effectively put a finite number on fast passes in a day, something that wasn't as easily controlled with the old system. It makes sense from a math view point that by controlling another variable they have a better idea of how the system will function once live.

We also tested the fast pass system last December. We really liked it. We changed reservation times the morning of and had no problem. We booked things well in advance and had no problem. Now obviously less people were using the system then but it did indeed work.

Again, a lot of people seem to think this magic + project is being run by a bunch of people who have only taken high school algebra. A lot of us are struggling with the basic math behind this, you can bet that the simulations and algorithms behind this system have been well vetted to see how they'll effect the park as a whole.

Tekneek
09-01-2013, 09:16 AM
Again, a lot of people seem to think this magic + project is being run by a bunch of people who have only taken high school algebra. A lot of us are struggling with the basic math behind this, you can bet that the simulations and algorithms behind this system have been well vetted to see how they'll effect the park as a whole.

A real point of concern with Disney is not how well thought out the math might be. It is how poorly implemented it will be. Disney, with all of their resources, has a surprisingly poor record rolling out web services. Their track record indicates they treat a production environment more like a beta testing lab and their paying guests as QA testers. They don't need to do that, but they choose to because it is cheaper.

That is what bothers me the most. No matter how well thought out it might be on paper, the actual implementation may leave a lot to be desired. Compromises may have to be made due to corners they choose to cut, and we all end up with less than what was intended and certainly less than what we would desire. Rest assured, this is all about making more for Disney and not to make things better for the guests. As such, we don't need to sprinkle pixie dust on it.

MrPeetrie
09-01-2013, 05:36 PM
Attendance or Reservations, however you want to look at it the number of people who stream into a park in a day does effect the number of fast passes used, which ultimately is what effects wait times.


I have a problem with your premise. (More precisely, you have a problem with mine.) I contend, under the current system, when people arrive on light attendance days, they rarely use FastPass. We usually come during off-peak seasons and try to gauge days where the Magic Kingdom will be navigable. On many of those days, we use one or no FastPasses. As do other guests as more often than not some kiosks are covered before 1:00 p.m.

However, 60 days prior to coming, no one will know whether or not the park will be light. So, they will use up their allotted three FastPasses, whether the crowd dictates it be necessary or not.

When they arrive, since those FastPass assignments have already be handed out, they must be reserved. So stand-by lines will be handled at a 80-20 ratio, favoring FastPasses. Did I make that clear, because I'm rambling.

And bottom line is: whether I see pitfalls and express concerns or whether I am highly anticipatory and heap praises, it's coming and we will all have to be proficient at it. Hopefully, these forums raise questions and these things are addressed prior to full-scale rollout.

joonyer
09-02-2013, 12:01 PM
As I stated in another thread about FP+, this is all part of a long range plan to get as many guests as possible "hooked" on using FP+'s. They'll do this by making most guests (many posters here already feel this way) think that if they don't have a FP, then the stand-by line for their favorite most anticipated attraction will be interminably long, regardless of the actual effect on the stand-by lines.

THEN, once everyone is "addicted" to FP+s, guess what will happen next. It's really not too hard to figure out where this is going. Just look at the other big theme park outfit in Orlando. The old FP system has been free for so long, they couldn't just start charging for it out of the blue without a huge backlash from guests. But, by radically changing the product, and with the justification of doing so being the adoption of the latest technology, it will be a much easier step to start charging guests for FP+s.

We have visited Universal's parks in Orlando several times, including during peak times, and we have never bought the Express passes, and we have never felt like we needed them. But I have seen many guests there who felt like they "HAD TO HAVE" an express pass or their park visit would be miserable. Don't let em get you hooked!

Jared
09-02-2013, 01:20 PM
THEN, once everyone is "addicted" to FP+s, guess what will happen next. It's really not too hard to figure out where this is going. Just look at the other big theme park outfit in Orlando. The old FP system has been free for so long, they couldn't just start charging for it out of the blue without a huge backlash from guests. But, by radically changing the product, and with the justification of doing so being the adoption of the latest technology, it will be a much easier step to start charging guests for FP+s
You nailed it. There is no question that Fastpass+ is the first step toward Disney charging for the service in some capacity.

It's pretty simple to see what the company is planning: Soon, Fastpass+ availability will become stratified. Guests staying at the Polynesian will be allowed to make more attraction reservations than guests staying at Pop Century, who will be able to make more attraction reservations than folks coming from off-site hotels.

Want a larger Fastpass+ allotment? You have two choices: Shell out some money for extra reservations, or stay at one of the more expensive hotels next time.

I don't think Disney will ever offer a Universal-style front-of-the-line pass. Nor do I think Disney will ever completely eliminate some sort of free line-jumping option. The notion that Fastpass is a free service is way too ingrained to change that at this point.

But there's no doubt in my mind that Disney will soon implement some sort of premium Fastpass+ service. Everything is pointing that direction.

Opus X
09-02-2013, 01:37 PM
Im looking forward to FP+..I would LOVE to book my FP's BEFORE hand..:thumbsup:
We are going back in 2015. Surely everything will beed good to go by then.:mickey:
There is so much over analyzation about it...it is funny.
It will all work out for the best. Things in life usually do.

Tekneek
09-02-2013, 01:48 PM
Speaking of FP+. I've been making FP+ reservations for my trip in late October/early November and no fireworks/parades/events were able to be reserved. Only a limited selection of the E-ticket attractions.

Additionally, I was limited to 3 at MK (unlike those who reported getting a bonus 4th selection there before).

Jared
09-02-2013, 02:21 PM
Im looking forward to FP+..I would LOVE to book my FP's BEFORE hand..:thumbsup:
We are going back in 2015. Surely everything will beed good to go by then.:mickey:
There is so much over analyzation about it...it is funny.
It will all work out for the best. Things in life usually do.
Not really sure why you have a problem with people analyzing and discussing the direction of one of their favorite places on the planet. One of the most lucrative corporations on Earth just spent north of a billion dollars on a project that has far-reaching implications for millions of guests every year. Why shouldn't it generate this sort of discourse?

Opus X
09-03-2013, 06:18 PM
Not really sure why you have a problem with people analyzing and discussing the direction of one of their favorite places on the planet. One of the most lucrative corporations on Earth just spent north of a billion dollars on a project that has far-reaching implications for millions of guests every year. Why shouldn't it generate this sort of discourse?
Dont take yourself so serious..........
No problem, just finding it incredibly funny.
Because...NO one knows how it will work with 100%.accuracy .Some may know tid bits....etc. And, thats fine. But to read all the over analyzation is humorous. Because, its ALL speculation. This is not complicated at all.
Folks will be able to book a fast pass in advance..and while in the parks...im sure they will also be able to use their iPhone and book another fast pass. In ALL the years i've gone to WDW/DLR there has NEVER been anything implemented that made my day more difficult or planning. This new fast pass+ ; in the end WILL be a good thing.
:thumbsup:
Just because I dont agree with you...doesnt make it a problem. You seem to have issues with debate..and like to label it as a problem with discourse. Chill out.:party:

Ok,..nothing personal. no disrespect...Just 110% disagree.
Stay happy.
This thread reminds me of the Mac forums...where folks "think they know whats going to happen in the world of Apple. In the end, none of them was even 1% right.
My point is...lets just wait and see.
Peace

AndrewJackson
09-03-2013, 10:39 PM
You nailed it. There is no question that Fastpass+ is the first step toward Disney charging for the service in some capacity.


There is no evidence to support this. This is pure speculation, similar to the speculation that was occurring when FP was first introduced. I would be very surprised if Disney ever did this.

They could have offered a stratified version of FP, but never did. For example, deluxe resort guests could receive additional FPs without having to wait 2 hours, etc. They could give deluxe resort guests 3 extra magic hours, moderate guests 2 hours, and value 1 hour. They have not done this for 40+ years. I also believe there would be significant pushback from guests.



I don't think Disney will ever offer a Universal-style front-of-the-line pass.


Disney already offers this, and it is really, really expensive. If you hire a tour guide at $300+ an hour and a 4 hour minimum, you get front of the line access.

Arielfan98
09-03-2013, 11:48 PM
I actually think the FP+ system is great for certain attractions like Toy Story Mania and for restaurants like Be Our Guest. Loyal Disney customers staying on property should be prioritized in these situations. Other than that I think FP+ is worthless. Before FP+ there was barely any wait for Pirates of the Caribbean and since they had that option I've had to wait awhile for it.

joonyer
09-04-2013, 12:01 AM
Just noting that FastPass has been in existence only since 1999, not 40+ years. The current system is 14 years old. But I think they are investing too much $$$ in this new FP+ system not to get some return out of it. Maybe they won't charge for just using the basic FP+ system, but I'll bet we see a significant increase in park admission after it's fully rolled out. That way they can say it's still "free", but they'll still get paid for it Either that, or you'll be able to pay to get more than 3 FP+s in a day. The new Disney is more dollar-centric and less about guest satisfaction than the company used to be.

TikiLounger
09-04-2013, 11:39 AM
Just noting that FastPass has been in existence only since 1999, not 40+ years. The current system is 14 years old. But I think they are investing too much $$$ in this new FP+ system not to get some return out of it. Maybe they won't charge for just using the basic FP+ system, but I'll bet we see a significant increase in park admission after it's fully rolled out. That way they can say it's still "free", but they'll still get paid for it Either that, or you'll be able to pay to get more than 3 FP+s in a day. The new Disney is more dollar-centric and less about guest satisfaction than the company used to be.

Well, I just got my wristbands today. I've been reading everyone's comments and I just have one thing to add. When I opened the box containing my MagicBands, I looked at the awesome packaging and presentation (including each of our names printed under our individual, customized wristband) and I thought, "There is no way these things are going to be free forever." I believe that, at some point, they WILL be charging for some aspect of this service...even if it's just to receive a "customized" band (you pick the color). I don't know enough about the subject to really get into the conversation, this was just my reaction when I opened the box.

AndrewJackson
09-04-2013, 09:14 PM
Just noting that FastPass has been in existence only since 1999, not 40+ years. The current system is 14 years old. But I think they are investing too much $$$ in this new FP+ system not to get some return out of it. Maybe they won't charge for just using the basic FP+ system, but I'll bet we see a significant increase in park admission after it's fully rolled out. That way they can say it's still "free", but they'll still get paid for it Either that, or you'll be able to pay to get more than 3 FP+s in a day. The new Disney is more dollar-centric and less about guest satisfaction than the company used to be.

I am aware of how long FP has been around. I was referring to the comment that Disney will start "stratifying" your experience using FP+ capabilities abd based on the price level of the resort. My point is that they could have done this long before FP or FP+ and never have.

It seems everyone wants to argue against FP+ before ever experiencing it, and with possible scenarios that are pure speculation. It's become a race to the bottom.

The latest is that we shouldn't like FP+ because they are going to start charging for it.

joonyer
09-04-2013, 10:42 PM
I like being able to enjoy the current FP system, and I'm sure I'll like using the new FP+ system available to make choices and reduce ride wait times for my family when it's fully implemented. I'm not arguing that it will be a bad thing or that we shouldn't like it. I just don't it'll stay free for very long.

Speculation? Yes.
Do I hope I'll be wrong? Yes.
Will I be surprised if FP+ becomes a pay as you play system? No.
Just sayin'
:cool:

Dulcee
09-05-2013, 08:13 AM
Speculation? Yes.
Do I hope I'll be wrong? Yes.
Will I be surprised if FP+ becomes a pay as you play system? No.
Just sayin'
:cool:

I wouldn't be surprised to see it become an on site perk. Pricing would be rolled into the resort pricing matrix like many other on site perks. That wouldn't bother me much.

I think it's unlikely that this would become something that every guest, on or offsite, would have the choice to pay for. Much like extra magic hours...

Tekneek
09-05-2013, 02:11 PM
It seems everyone wants to argue against FP+ before ever experiencing it, and with possible scenarios that are pure speculation. It's become a race to the bottom.

I've been critical of it and now I've begun testing it. I continue to stand by my original concerns.

Opus X
09-05-2013, 04:57 PM
I've been critical of it and now I've begun testing it. I continue to stand by my original concerns.
Yeah, but thats like folks testing beta versions of ios7..or any other Macintosh mobile operating system....They say, Oh, i dont like it...it has querks.
Then it is fully released...and its an art form. Perfect. (there is always a few debbie downers)but 99.9% of iPhone/Ipad users will love it.
I fully expect F.P.+ to be the same.
What you are testing now...is merely a skeleton of the final deal.
I will lay down 5-1 odds...Heck, 10-1 ..in the end, it will be just like the regular fast pass. A GREAT thing.
:thumbsup:
Time will tell.
Oh, and if in the end, I have to "pay for front of the line" access as some have speculated...So be it. Money WELL spent.
I do agree that if you stay at a Deluxe...you get more fp+ "bookings" that too, though may be a rumor.
In any case. I love the debate. But...hate the speculation. I have tremendous faith in Disney. In all these years...Always a GREAT vacation experience. I have NO doubts about this either.

Jared
09-07-2013, 12:51 AM
Disney already offers this, and it is really, really expensive. If you hire a tour guide at $300+ an hour and a 4 hour minimum, you get front of the line access.
Fair point. I didn't mention the VIP tour service because it's generally unadvertised and certainly inaccessible to a vast majority of guests.

As for the stratification of the Fastpass service, I guess we'll see. We know for a fact that Disney has already obtained certain patents and such that would allow for a system like the one I described. Will the company ever implement it? Maybe, maybe not. But we're already starting to see a part of it: Disney resort guests are going to be given an advantage in Fastpass+ over off-site guests.

To be honest, I don't have a problem of this. Disney needs to entice people to stay at the expensive resorts. This could be a significant perk.

DizneyFreak2002
09-07-2013, 01:03 AM
To be honest, I don't have a problem of this. Disney needs to entice people to stay at the expensive resorts. This could be a significant perk.

FP+, if for resort guests only, and I have no reason to believe it will be for resort guests only, may be the only perk left for staying at the over priced Disney hotels, once EMH are eliminated completely... There will be no reason to ever stay on Disney property for the prices they charge for a bed and shower...

Jared
09-07-2013, 09:38 AM
FP+, if for resort guests only, and I have no reason to believe it will be for resort guests only, may be the only perk left for staying at the over priced Disney hotels, once EMH are eliminated completely... There will be no reason to ever stay on Disney property for the prices they charge for a bed and shower...
There is a reason why I hardly ever stay on-site anymore. Or, better put, there are few reasons why it is worth it to stay on-site anymore. There are infinitely better hotels within minutes of Disney property that literally cost a third of the price of someplace like Port Orleans.

DizneyFreak2002
09-07-2013, 11:12 AM
There is a reason why I hardly ever stay on-site anymore. Or, better put, there are few reasons why it is worth it to stay on-site anymore. There are infinitely better hotels within minutes of Disney property that literally cost a third of the price of someplace like Port Orleans.

You and many others... Resort occupancy rates are not at the numbers Disney wants... 60 to 70 % occupancy rates (and in some cases lower)... But don't worry, next year, Disney will make sure to increase the rates by double digits again...

Opus X
09-07-2013, 12:49 PM
There is a reason why I hardly ever stay on-site anymore. Or, better put, there are few reasons why it is worth it to stay on-site anymore. There are infinitely better hotels within minutes of Disney property that literally cost a third of the price of someplace like Port Orleans.
Whoa, Not true at all......
We spent 149.00 per night at POR riverside last visit. First of May 7 nights.
A third of that is..50.00 What resort or hotel within minutes of WDW is 50.00 that has as nice of a pool...As nice of grounds, as nice of total resort,plus free parking to the parks....etc.
....thats right, there isnt any. Plus, you cant beat staying on property.
You are just plain wrong, and i want you to show me exactly where I can stay for 50.00 a night..that is as nice as POR. Really, you cant.
Even the budget hotels...when you add resort fees, parking fees at the parks, it is RARE that you save a lot to stay off property compared to the values. And, if you throw in rental car costs....it is NEVER cheaper than a value. That alone will cost at least 100.00 for a week in a very small car.
I could stay at a value..In May (when we go) and ALWAYS save money at a value compared to say a Holiday Inn...plus fees, plus rental car...plus parking.

Mickey91
09-09-2013, 01:27 AM
I am aware of how long FP has been around. I was referring to the comment that Disney will start "stratifying" your experience using FP+ capabilities abd based on the price level of the resort. My point is that they could have done this long before FP or FP+ and never have.

It seems everyone wants to argue against FP+ before ever experiencing it, and with possible scenarios that are pure speculation. It's become a race to the bottom.

The latest is that we shouldn't like FP+ because they are going to start charging for it.

Well, they already started "stratifying" with free dining. If you stay at Fort Wilderness campstes, AoA Mermaid rooms, POFQ, or GF Villas you don't get it at all. If you stay at the other values, you only get quick service free...

I have no problem believing there will be some kind of money involved with the new fast pass+. And I have no problem believing that different levels of resort guests will have different perks in relation to it.

Mickey91
09-09-2013, 01:33 AM
I am aware of how long FP has been around. I was referring to the comment that Disney will start "stratifying" your experience using FP+ capabilities abd based on the price level of the resort. My point is that they could have done this long before FP or FP+ and never have.

It seems everyone wants to argue against FP+ before ever experiencing it, and with possible scenarios that are pure speculation. It's become a race to the bottom.

The latest is that we shouldn't like FP+ because they are going to start charging for it.

Well, they already started "stratifying" with free dining. If you stay at Fort Wilderness campstes, AoA Mermaid rooms, POFQ, or GF Villas you don't get it at all. If you stay at the other values, you only get quick service free...

I have no problem believing there will be some kind of money involved with the new fast pass+. And I have no problem believing that different levels of resort guests will have different perks in relation to it.

Jared
09-09-2013, 11:44 AM
Well, they already started "stratifying" with free dining. If you stay at Fort Wilderness campstes, AoA Mermaid rooms, POFQ, or GF Villas you don't get it at all. If you stay at the other values, you only get quick service free...

I have no problem believing there will be some kind of money involved with the new fast pass+. And I have no problem believing that different levels of resort guests will have different perks in relation to it.
Good point about the "free" dining plan. I didn't consider that.

I'm with you -- I'd have no problem if Disney started offering more Fastpass+ offerings to guests staying at more expensive hotels. If you are shelling out the bucks to stay at a place like the Contemporary or Grand Floridian, you deserve better perks than the folks staying at Pop Century.

Dsnygirl
09-09-2013, 12:15 PM
I actually think the FP+ system is great for certain attractions like Toy Story Mania and for restaurants like Be Our Guest. Loyal Disney customers staying on property should be prioritized in these situations. Other than that I think FP+ is worthless. Before FP+ there was barely any wait for Pirates of the Caribbean and since they had that option I've had to wait awhile for it.

Ditto - I think it should have stayed limited to the "prioritized rides" like TSM, RnRc, Splash, Space, etc. We were just there in August, and our first 3 days PoC was WIDE open, no wait, no FP+ signs. Then, suddenly mid-week there was a FP+ sign, and the entire queue was re-routed. We asked about it, and the CM said that although the queue looked longer, it was actually shorter b/c of the implemented FP+. Wrong... we waited 20 minutes for a ride that was a walk-on the day before. I hate to think that rides that were NOT long waits before will now become so because of this new system... when I saw the sign for FP+ at IASW, all I could think was, "Really??" :rolleyes:

Dulcee
09-09-2013, 12:27 PM
There is a reason why I hardly ever stay on-site anymore. Or, better put, there are few reasons why it is worth it to stay on-site anymore. There are infinitely better hotels within minutes of Disney property that literally cost a third of the price of someplace like Port Orleans.

Really? I've been looking for a place close by to stay the night before our reservation begins on our next trip. To stay in anything decent were looking at $100-140 a night. Add to that $5-10 to park the car, $10-20 for internet and some even have a "resort" fee for another $10-15. And I don't know where the free continental breakfast went but it appears most Orlando resorts don't believe in that anymore.

So on the low end my cheap night before disney is now $125 - 165.

Sure, I could decide to do the $65 a night red roof inn (about 1/3 of POR) but does that really compare to a disney resort? Even a value in January I can get for about $110 a night. And at least I'm confident I"m in a safe area with a clean room.

Don't get me wrong, Disney deluxe hotels are overpriced (so are Universal's). I'd love to stay at the Poly but it just ain't gonna happen right now. But the moderates and values? They seem to fit right into the rest of the Orlando hotel market to me.

Jared
09-09-2013, 01:43 PM
I compare the Disney value resorts to the budget lines of the major hotel chains. Take the Fairfield Inn, for instance, which is the cheapest Marriott brand.

I picked a random few days in January -- the 10th through the 14th, to be specific.

The Fairfield Inn & Suites Orlando Lake Buena Vista in the Marriott Village costs $76 per night, and that includes wireless Internet and a continental breakfast. Yes, you'll need a rental car, which is an added expense, but I do believe that the lowest Marriott brand is better than the value Disney hotels.

For what it's worth, the Gaylord Palms right outside the Disney arch is $229 per night, and I view that as a much nicer hotel than even the Grand Floridian.

JerseyDad
09-09-2013, 02:11 PM
I compare the Disney value resorts to the budget lines of the major hotel chains. Take the Fairfield Inn, for instance, which is the cheapest Marriott brand.

I picked a random few days in January -- the 10th through the 14th, to be specific.

The Fairfield Inn & Suites Orlando Lake Buena Vista in the Marriott Village costs $76 per night, and that includes wireless Internet and a continental breakfast. Yes, you'll need a rental car, which is an added expense, but I do believe that the lowest Marriott brand is better than the value Disney hotels.

For what it's worth, the Gaylord Palms right outside the Disney arch is $229 per night, and I view that as a much nicer hotel than even the Grand Floridian.


...have to agree with the room quality at Fairfield Inn's. We stayed at one in St. Augustine on our trip to WDW 2 weeks ago ...and for $75 (plus tax) the room was bigger ...brighter ...and as you mentioned ...included a very good complimentary breakfast. When we checked into POP the next day ..it was like taking a backward step in room size / quality (Fairfield had 2 queen beds ....and a fridge). And ....as a side perk ...Marriot gives me reward points for continual use of their hotels. It'd be nice for Disney to 'perk' repeat guests ...heck, if they are going to charge "Vegas-like" prices ...they need to provide the perks. (I also know exactly where the Marriott village is you mentioned ...having driven past it to get to a local Walgreens before we checked in at POP) ...it's a very nice complex

Opus X
09-09-2013, 06:02 PM
I compare the Disney value resorts to the budget lines of the major hotel chains. Take the Fairfield Inn, for instance, which is the cheapest Marriott brand.

I picked a random few days in January -- the 10th through the 14th, to be specific.

The Fairfield Inn & Suites Orlando Lake Buena Vista in the Marriott Village costs $76 per night, and that includes wireless Internet and a continental breakfast. Yes, you'll need a rental car, which is an added expense, but I do believe that the lowest Marriott brand is better than the value Disney hotels.

For what it's worth, the Gaylord Palms right outside the Disney arch is $229 per night, and I view that as a much nicer hotel than even the Grand Floridian.
You stated a "third of the price of POR" I pointed out we stayed at POR last May for 149.00. Im still waiting for the 50.00 hotel you stated you could find that was a better value. Which, would also have to include free parking. ( and as nice as POR) Remember, There is more to a WDW resort than sleep and shower...The theming, even a value is fantastic)..and WDW transport is also a GREAT perk..especially those who fly.
I think ill be waiting for a long time...you cant find a hotel off property for a THIRD of the price...which IS what you stated.
There is a reason ALOT of hotels off property is closing...The new ones being built at times..is MORE than a Value resort. And, alot of folks WANT to stay on property. If a family travels to WDW once a year or every other like us. I dont want to stay is a Fairfield Inn..where i could in my own home town. Part of the vacation IS staying on property...But, PLEASE...direct me to the 50.00 "resort" off property = to POR.

Opus X
09-09-2013, 06:17 PM
I compare the Disney value resorts to the budget lines of the major hotel chains. Take the Fairfield Inn, for instance, which is the cheapest Marriott brand.

I picked a random few days in January -- the 10th through the 14th, to be specific.

The Fairfield Inn & Suites Orlando Lake Buena Vista in the Marriott Village costs $76 per night, and that includes wireless Internet and a continental breakfast. Yes, you'll need a rental car, which is an added expense, but I do believe that the lowest Marriott brand is better than the value Disney hotels.

For what it's worth, the Gaylord Palms right outside the Disney arch is $229 per night, and I view that as a much nicer hotel than even the Grand Floridian.
You failed to mention..the 10.00 resort fee per night and parking at WDW every day....the real total would be what 97.00? ...I'll take All star Music anyway over that for close to the same price...and if you have kids.....its a NO brainer. On property..WDW transport is easy and you get where you need to go..faster than free transport in any City i know.
I dont mean to make this about on vs. off property...thats a personal choice..
My point is though to point out the completely wrong and not just wrong but 110% wrong.. comment from an earlier post about a "third" the price of POR..Which in many cases would mean a 50.00 a night hotel..along with resort fees and parking at wow which would ADD to that quite a bit.

Jared
09-09-2013, 06:33 PM
I'll accept that there's probably not a $50 hotel that rivals Port Orleans. That was hyperbole, and it was inaccurate.

But I will say that there are definitely better hotels off property that are a third of the price of a deluxe hotel. Rooms at the Contemporary or the Polynesian often run at $450 per night or even more, depending on the season. You can definitely stay at a very nice Marriott or Hyatt around there for $150 per night. I've seen the World Center Marriott for even less than that.

Anyway, are there perks to staying on-site? Definitely. My fiancee are probably going to stay at Coronado Springs for four nights for our trip next month.

The on-site vs. off-site hotel question really hinges on what you value. Disney's strength isn't in hotels. If you want the high-quality resort experience, I'd always recommend staying off-site. If you don't want to deal with a rental car and don't plan on dining at other resorts often and don't need much else, on-site is fantastic.

Personally, I think the Swan and Dolphin is the ideal. Not only are they cheap -- deluxe-quality accommodations for the price of a moderate -- but Starwood knows how to run in hotels in a way Disney doesn't.

That isn't a knock on Disney. When it comes to themed design, no company does it better. The same goes for feature animation and many other businesses. Hotel management isn't one of them. Let's not forget that at one point, the plans for Walt Disney World called for outside companies to own all of the hotels. Disney knows where its strengths lie.

joonyer
09-09-2013, 08:47 PM
. . . . That isn't a knock on Disney. When it comes to themed design, no company does it better. The same goes for feature animation and many other businesses. Hotel management isn't one of them. Let's not forget that at one point, the plans for Walt Disney World called for outside companies to own all of the hotels. Disney knows where its strengths lie.

Disney may have known where its strengths lie, but they figured out real quick where the big profits were, and that was in lodging (and food). That's why we have seen Disney invest so much more $$$ in real estate (hotels and DVC units) than theme park development in the past 15 years.

Opus X
09-09-2013, 10:18 PM
I'll accept that there's probably not a $50 hotel that rivals Port Orleans. That was hyperbole, and it was inaccurate.

But I will say that there are definitely better hotels off property that are a third of the price of a deluxe hotel. Rooms at the Contemporary or the Polynesian often run at $450 per night or even more, depending on the season. You can definitely stay at a very nice Marriott or Hyatt around there for $150 per night. I've seen the World Center Marriott for even less than that.

Anyway, are there perks to staying on-site? Definitely. My fiancee are probably going to stay at Coronado Springs for four nights for our trip next month.

The on-site vs. off-site hotel question really hinges on what you value. Disney's strength isn't in hotels. If you want the high-quality resort experience, I'd always recommend staying off-site. If you don't want to deal with a rental car and don't plan on dining at other resorts often and don't need much else, on-site is fantastic.

Personally, I think the Swan and Dolphin is the ideal. Not only are they cheap -- deluxe-quality accommodations for the price of a moderate -- but Starwood knows how to run in hotels in a way Disney doesn't.

That isn't a knock on Disney. When it comes to themed design, no company does it better. The same goes for feature animation and many other businesses. Hotel management isn't one of them. Let's not forget that at one point, the plans for Walt Disney World called for outside companies to own all of the hotels. Disney knows where its strengths lie.
Ok..fair enough. Im just an Onsite..kinda guy. I have never had any issues with Disney concerning my resort stay...So, I don't see an issue with hotel management. But, Again..We have always stayed on property. When we stay at a hotel...here at home area...It usually a La Quinta. Not too high end obviously.
Vegas....thats a different story....Mirage or Caesars..

newcarsmell
09-10-2013, 11:55 PM
This entire fastpass+/magic bands/dining plans/bottomlessmugs thing is getting out of hand. There's almost no spontaneity if you keep following Disney's idea of a "magically efficient and cost effective" vacation. I've always enjoyed WDW because it is an escape from the real world. These originally-good ideas keep multiplying and getting "plussed" and now it seems that WDW is getting as complicated as the real world. If you stop and think about it: getting only one fastpass per day, chosen at the spur of the moment / deciding HOW MUCH to eat while you are actually hungry / paying for and enjoying a coke until another one doesn't seem worth the cost - these aren't bad options at such a happy place! Optional overplanning for some will eventually lead to required overplanning for the vast majority (unless we only want to eat burgers and enjoy the Tiki birds) - not looking forward to that day. Spontaneity is a wonderful thing, Disney!

Jared
09-14-2013, 10:04 AM
Just found out that my fiancee and I will be trying MagicBands in October. Looking forward to it.

DizneyFreak2002
09-14-2013, 11:11 AM
Just found out that my fiancee and I will be trying MagicBands in October. Looking forward to it.
Did you customize your bands yet? Did you get the chance to make FP+ choices as well?

Hammer
09-14-2013, 12:02 PM
Just found out that my fiancee and I will be trying MagicBands in October. Looking forward to it.

I just received my invitation as well. We have a DVC reservation and we all have Annual Passes (which was mentioned in the email). It is linked to my email address, which makes sense since I was the one who made our DVC reservation. We are all on the DVC deed.


Did you customize your bands yet? Did you get the chance to make FP+ choices as well?

There is a step by step process in my email. I need to get my sister and Mom's AP #s to attach to my online account. Then, we can order our Magic Bands and make our fastpass+ selections.

Since I test software for a living, I'm really interested in taking part. I realize this is a testing phase, so I know there will be problems. Every software trial has them. I mean, I just finished dealing with adding any room DVR onto my Comcast account which did not work correctly for almost 2 weeks and that is out in general release!

I will give my report of the good and bad points after my trip October 6-11.

DizneyFreak2002
09-14-2013, 01:32 PM
There is a step by step process in my email. I need to get my sister and Mom's AP #s to attach to my online account. Then, we can order our Magic Bands and make our fastpass+ selections.

Since I test software for a living, I'm really interested in taking part. I realize this is a testing phase, so I know there will be problems. Every software trial has them. I mean, I just finished dealing with adding any room DVR onto my Comcast account which did not work correctly for almost 2 weeks and that is out in general release!

I will give my report of the good and bad points after my trip October 6-11.

Did you receive the email first or did you notice the options available to you before you even saw the email? I have been reading, and in one instance a it happened to my friend, where people are not getting emails, but finding out when they log into MDE...

In fact, the band option was available to me the other night when I logged into my account for my stay at BLT and SSR in October... I had been told by DVC Member Services that I would receive an email on September 30 for BLT inviting me to the test, and on October 21 for SSR.... However, when I logged in the other night, I had the FP+ option and band order option... And my bands had to be customized by September 24... Seems weird I would get an email 6 days AFTER my customization had to be completed... LOL..

And is this even a test anymore? I have heard conflicting information that by the end of October, this will be full roll out for all resorts on property, no longer a test...

Hammer
09-14-2013, 04:47 PM
Did you receive the email first or did you notice the options available to you before you even saw the email? I have been reading, and in one instance a it happened to my friend, where people are not getting emails, but finding out when they log into MDE...

I received the email first.



And is this even a test anymore? I have heard conflicting information that by the end of October, this will be full roll out for all resorts on property, no longer a test...

It clearly states in the email I received that this is still in the testing phase. I haven't heard of many DVC reservations and/or AP holders being asked to test, so I think they are asking people like my group (and you, since you are DVC) for the next few weeks to work out some of the issues this demographic may encounter.

I fully expect there to be issues; there always are for any type of new program/technology. Anyone who agrees to be part of a test group should understand that is the nature of testing any product/application.

Dsnygirl
09-16-2013, 09:07 AM
And is this even a test anymore? I have heard conflicting information that by the end of October, this will be full roll out for all resorts on property, no longer a test...

When we were there in August, they told us that starting in September, they were going to begin slowly including more moderate resort guests in the testing, then deluxes, until everything is "online" by early next year. They didn't mention DVC members, but it's good they're including them in the testing!

DizneyFreak2002
09-16-2013, 11:05 AM
I fully expect there to be issues; there always are for any type of new program/technology. Anyone who agrees to be part of a test group should understand that is the nature of testing any product/application.

I expect issues still as well... Very complicated system, there are bound to be continued problems... But reading some reports from the current tests, seems that most of the major issues are happening less and less.. Which is a good thing... That's why i said test this for two more years if need be.. Just get it right!


When we were there in August, they told us that starting in September, they were going to begin slowly including more moderate resort guests in the testing, then deluxes, until everything is "online" by early next year. They didn't mention DVC members, but it's good they're including them in the testing!

I questioned DVC Member Services (I know, not the best source of news and information)... They had told me Sept 30 was official roll out for BLT and Oct 21 official roll out for SSR... I asked if this was testing, he said no official roll out... Which is why I questioned if we can even call this a test any more... Though I bet we hear of "official" launch in early 2014, if not by the end of this year...

DizneyFreak2002
09-16-2013, 11:26 AM
I want to just add, taken from another website which posted the information:



Guests who were selected to participate in the next round of MyMagic+ testing are staying at the following resorts with arrival dates listed below:


Arrival date of September 30 – October 31, 2013: Disney’s Animal Kingdom Lodge – Kidani Village, Disney’s All-Star Movies Resort, Bay Lake Tower at Disney’s Contemporary Resort, Disney’s Grand Floridian Resort and Spa and Disney’s Port Orleans Resort – French Quarter.
Arrival date of October 7 – 31, 2013: Disney’s All-Star Sports Resort, Disney’s BoardWalk Inn, Disney’s BoardWalk Villas and Disney’s Caribbean Beach Resort.
Arrival date of October 14 – 31, 2013: Disney’s All-Star Music Resort, Disney’s Coronado Springs Resort, Disney’s Old Key West Resort, Disney’s Wilderness Lodge and the Villas at Disney’s Wilderness Lodge.
Arrival date of October 21 – 31, 2013: Disney’s Fort Wilderness Resort and Campground and Disney’s Saratoga Springs Resort and Spa.
Arrival date of October 23 – 31, 2013: The Villas at Disney’s Grand Floridian Resort and Spa.

Testing will continue at all the current test locations for Guests arriving through Oct. 31. These resorts include:


Disney’s Animal Kingdom Lodge – Jambo House,
Disney’s Animal Kingdom Villas – Jambo House,
Disney’s Art of Animation Resort,
Disney’s Beach Club Resort,
Disney’s Beach Club Villas,
Disney’s Contemporary Resort,
Disney’s Polynesian Resort,
Disney’s Pop Century Resort,
Disney’s Port Orleans Resort – Riverside,
Disney’s Yacht Club Resort.

AgentC
09-16-2013, 11:42 AM
I am staying in Sept and Oct and both of my resort aren't testing until I'm gone. :( I'd really like to try it out. I'm tempted to change my October reservation but since we are going mainly for Food & Wine, I doubt I'll be using Fastpass that much.

PopPhan
09-16-2013, 11:47 AM
I'm staying at Pop in December and wondering when I will get my MagicBand notification. I know that is one of the resorts that is supposed to be in full roll-out and I want to make sure I am ready....

78 days and counting.....

Jared
09-16-2013, 02:30 PM
I just want to say that so far, everything has worked smoothly for me. I've been able to link all my reservations and my tickets and all of that with no problem. I even made Fastpass+ selections for one day of my trip.

So far, so good. I'm pleasantly surprised. It is nice to know that on our arrival day, when we probably won't get to the park until 3 or 4 p.m., we'll be able to ride both Soarin' and Test Track with no wait. Under the old system, we'd be out of luck.

cer
09-16-2013, 06:08 PM
So far, so good. I'm pleasantly surprised. It is nice to know that on our arrival day, when we probably won't get to the park until 3 or 4 p.m., we'll be able to ride both Soarin' and Test Track with no wait. Under the old system, we'd be out of luck.

This is a beautiful thing.

Jared
09-16-2013, 06:18 PM
This is a beautiful thing.
Now the bad news. I'm traveling with a party of six. I'm trying to make Fastpass+ arrangements for the other days of my trip. I have a headache.

KODABEAR
09-16-2013, 10:31 PM
:vacation::old::knit: Just got back from a stay at WDW. We did a split stay, Beach Club and Conteporary. Both were testing. So we did have to order 2 sets of bands. ( able to coordinate with my outfits :cloud9:) One for each resort to have the room key placed on them. We have AP's so could use either band for fastpasses and park entrances at any time. Had no problems. Able to use for food, gifts etc. Found that most all CM were able to answer any questions we had. Looking forward to using them in Dec. :mickey: