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View Full Version : WDW Should Charge EXTRA for FastPass+



Goes4FastPass
07-18-2013, 02:59 PM
Seriously. I'd pay real extra money to be able to ride TSM without busting the gate at DHS.

Strmchsr
07-18-2013, 03:13 PM
Once Fastpass+ is in effect you will no longer have to be there at opening. That's the whole point. You'll just have to be online 180 days out to get your Fastpass. :mickey:

Melanie
07-18-2013, 03:18 PM
Once Fastpass+ is in effect you will no longer have to be there at opening. That's the whole point. You'll just have to be online 180 days out to get your Fastpass. :mickey:

That sounds like a great trade off. :rolleyes:

Strmchsr
07-18-2013, 03:31 PM
That sounds like a great trade off. :rolleyes:

:D No kidding. Now not only do I have to get up early before all the Fastpass times are gone, but I have to decide which park I want to be in 6 months out.

mgmnut
07-18-2013, 03:32 PM
I totally understand what the OP is saying. Sometimes (a lot of times) you have to be there right at rope drop to be able to experience some particular rides or you are going to stand in line for 2 hours in the standby line.

My question is who knows what ride they are going to want to ride at a specific time, or sometimes even what park you are going to be in 6 month out?

Now I know you can make changes on the mobil app right up to the day of, but will it be like dining when you can't get anything because you waited to long to book? Or will you have to release a fastpass+ that you already have booked only to find there is nothing available for what you want to swap it for?

VWL Mom
07-18-2013, 04:06 PM
Or will you have to release a fastpass+ that you already have booked only to find there is nothing available for what you want to swap it for?

It may be similar to the dining where they hold your old one until the new one is confirmed but who knows. :shrug:

DizneyFreak2002
07-18-2013, 04:16 PM
Funny you mention charging... There were rumors (unfounded at this point, but when this was first being discussed, could have been credible) that FP+ would be a pay to play system... Now, reading the new ToS, seems like it may wind up that way in one form or another...

Per ToS:



The total number of FastPass+ experiences available to you during your visit depends on several factors including availability and the vacation packages and tickets linked to your Disney account. Generally, FastPass+ eligible Guests are able to select one set of FastPass+ experiences each day for every valid theme park ticket linked to their account.


Sounds like pay more, get more...

tjstrike
07-18-2013, 09:08 PM
Some people already pay real money to get to the front of the line... I think it's a lousy idea !! That's part of the Disney excitement is getting FP's. FP+ is a bad idea.

waymickey
07-18-2013, 09:32 PM
I do not like the idea of having to pay extra to get on a ride after paying 90+ to get into the park. I understand I may have to wait a bit for the popular rides and I do not mind the wait. I laugh with my family, talk about what we saw and what we sill do next . We play games that we make up in line and in some lines enjoy the theming. Having to wait a bit is not such a bad idea.

Arielfan98
07-19-2013, 03:30 AM
I don't like the idea of FP+ because if I would have to pay for it I would have to plan when I want my FPs 6 months prior to my trip and that can be frustrating. What if unexpectedly I must change my FP time during my trip? There's no guarantees they can change it and therefore my money is wasted. However if I chose not to do FP+ I have to wait in a long line because I could not afford the extra expense? Not worth it.

Katzateer
07-19-2013, 08:45 AM
They will charge for FP? The idea of getting them before the trip stinks also. Money will get you all the perks and trying to plan every detail will be a pain before your trip. Soon they will charge to book dining ahead........not the deposit but a fee just to hold the seating.

We plan our dining before our trip but I am always changing it once we get there depending on weather and crowds.

I feel so bad for families that only go once or twice when the kids are young- this is all getting too complicated and will be hard to navigate your planning when you not know all the options.

PirateLover
07-19-2013, 09:39 AM
No, no, no, no. No.

ANG
07-19-2013, 09:41 AM
Yes, I too hate running into the park at opening to those FP machines. And I'm not going to knock the new FP+ if I haven't tried it yet. But I would be super upset if we had to actually pay MORE for FPs. Not just for my family but for all the families that can barely afford the admission ticket let alone extra ride privileges.

faline
07-19-2013, 09:51 AM
I just can't imagine that I will want to book the rides 6 months before I arrive. Even though I put together a loose schedule of which parks I will visit on which days, I don't always stick to that plan. Also, I may not stay the whole day in a park. If my fastpass plus time is for 3 in the afternoon, I may have left the park an hour or two before that because I decided to go to the pool or even just back to our resort or whatever. It's hard for me to imagine that I'll hang out another few hours in a park just to ride that additional fast pass ride that I booked six months earlier!!

Dsnygirl
07-19-2013, 10:02 AM
I for one will say that I will NEVER book a FP 6 months out... I might have an idea which park we want to go to based on the released hours, and restaurants we have chosen, but once we are there?? Totally a "go with the flow" family, and if we miss something?? No big deal, it's vacation.

But along with that - if on our next trip (after the upcoming one in August) I find that we can't get on any of our favorites easily b/c we didn't book 6 months out... we may not be back. :( I refuse to be pushed into planning every moment of my vacation, and being stressed b/c I have to make a certain FP time. We already feel that way about meals, I do NOT want to feel that way about rides. Blech. :ack:

minnie04
07-19-2013, 10:21 AM
I really don't get the whole FP thing in the first place. I know everyone wants to ride all the rides in one day, but what did you do when there weren't FP's in the past. You waited!! To wake up early and run for a pass to let me on a ride is crazy (to me) If we get there and the lines are long we just skip that ride and check back later. I will not wait in a line for 1 hour or more for any ride. Nothing is worth waking up everyone to get a ticket to ride something we have been on tons of times. If anything it should be for the people that have never been to the parks and never been on the rides. How you would know that not sure, but it's just not worth stressing over when you are there.. That's just me by the end of the night the lines are always shorter anyway. Just enjoy the day and check on those rides for shorter lines later.

LauraF
07-19-2013, 10:24 AM
I refuse to be pushed into planning every moment of my vacation, and being stressed b/c I have to make a certain FP time.

I wholeheartedly agree. :thumbsup:

I made the mistake once (once was enough) of booking three meals a day, various activites and events . . . it was a disaster. It was like being back at work and constantly watching the clock as I ran from meeting to meeting. If I wanted to be rushed and stressed I'd have stayed at work!

Nope, no way, never again. I'd rather miss out then lose the ability to be somewhat spontaneous.

And to those who suggest paying more for FP+ . . . with all due respect, why would I pay to wait in line when I can do it for free?

Going to be stubborn and dig in my heels and say "No."

minnie04
07-19-2013, 10:44 AM
I wholeheartedly agree. :thumbsup:

I made the mistake once (once was enough) of booking three meals a day, various activites and events . . . it was a disaster. It was like being back at work and constantly watching the clock as I ran from meeting to meeting. If I wanted to be rushed and stressed I'd have stayed at work!

Nope, no way, never again. I'd rather miss out then lose the ability to be somewhat spontaneous.

And to those who suggest paying more for FP+ . . . with all due respect, why would I pay to wait in line when I can do it for free?

Going to be stubborn and dig in my heels and say "No."

I agree also. I have never been one to plan EVERYTHING we are doing in a day (at the parks) We tried waking up early when the kids were little to be at the parks early (by early I mean 10:00/11:00am) and that worked for a couple trips, but WE all hated it, so we said from now on whatever we get done in a day is what we get done. No more running from this ride to that ride. It worked out so much better. Also we would pick slower times in the year to go. That really helped. With a son that plays baseball year round we are always getting up super early and just decided on VACATIONS we wouldn’t put that on the kids, but I do understand that for some families this is their one and only time to go and they want to make sure they get it all in. I guess it all depends on your family, but preparing an agenda for vacation isn’t what we like to do.

ANG
07-19-2013, 11:04 AM
I really don't get the whole FP thing in the first place. I know everyone wants to ride all the rides in one day, but what did you do when there weren't FP's in the past. You waited!! To wake up early and run for a pass to let me on a ride is crazy (to me) If we get there and the lines are long we just skip that ride and check back later. I will not wait in a line for 1 hour or more for any ride. Nothing is worth waking up everyone to get a ticket to ride something we have been on tons of times. If anything it should be for the people that have never been to the parks and never been on the rides. How you would know that not sure, but it's just not worth stressing over when you are there.. That's just me by the end of the night the lines are always shorter anyway. Just enjoy the day and check on those rides for shorter lines later.

Well TSM is over 45 minute wait no matter what time of year you go or time of day. It's just that popular.

I won't wait longer than 20 period. My park time is too valuable. If there is something I simply must do, it's done at park opening (or getting a FP for it). We just got back from WDW and I was able to get reasonable FPs for all the big ticket ride except TSM and RRC. They were out of FPs by like noon.

I just don't see why it's that difficult to use the current system. Get a FP, ride a few not so high demand things, use the FP, and then get another.

steamboat willy
07-19-2013, 12:19 PM
TSM, 75 minutes right now on a Friday at 11:10 a.m. according to MDE. We have yet to get a fastpass or could not justify the 120 minute wait and kept moving to more fun! Maybe in October!

disney obsessed
07-19-2013, 02:51 PM
I will probably never use this feature. And I am so grateful that I do not have to. We have been there enough to go with the flow. If we were a young family who could not go often and have to plan so much, I NEVER would have become an addict.

Vacation is for relaxing. I do not want to be "pushed around" either. I have made one advanced dining reservation in my 34 trips.

Remember when it was easier to go to disney? I miss those days.

gratuspater
07-19-2013, 03:34 PM
Yes, I too hate running into the park at opening to those FP machines. And I'm not going to knock the new FP+ if I haven't tried it yet. But I would be super upset if we had to actually pay MORE for FPs. Not just for my family but for all the families that can barely afford the admission ticket let alone extra ride privileges.

I agree, and WOULD NOT pay more for fast passes, and if it came to that we certainly wouldn't make Disney a yearly trip, anymore! The prices go up every year anyhow, if not ticket prices, it's our dvc annual dues. I don't think it's fair for a family who can barely afford this trip once, but want their children to experience it, to have to spend more time waiting in line just because they have less money than someone else. Outside of Disney, the influence of big money and the division it brings, is painfully obvious. I would hate to see that divide brought inside the parks, and take away a little more of the magic. There are plenty of pay to play experiences at Disney (parasailing, boating, tours (some of which I think get you onto some rides faster?), preferred fireworks seating). Just to name a few. The parks have became busy enough year round, that I do have to be at rope drop, to ride certain rides, and I will do that but when I have to pay extra, just so I don't have to stand in line for 2 hours, then I will be rethinking my vacation choices. Matter of fact, just had a GREAT weekend get away to a regional 4 star westin resort, slept in every day, then got up played tennis and swam all day (there are lots of other local attractions, but that is what our young boys wanted to do), then had very nice dinners at the hotel. I could easily exchange a week of that, for the hustle and bustle of Disney, especially if we would have to pay extra for fast pass. And I would save money all around, no airfare, no park tickets, cheaper room rates. I doubt we are the only people that feel this way, LISTEN UP TDO!

Hammer
07-19-2013, 03:35 PM
I'm not sure if I would pay extra for Fastpass +. Personally, I don't believe in setting an alarm clock on vacation, so I can count on both hands with fingers to spare the times I've been there for park opening. We get to the parks around 10:30-11:00. Consequently, I've only gone on TSM twice, and one of those times was when they had a single rider line when it first opened. So if I can schedule afternoon fastpasses in advance for the few FP rides we want, I would be very happy. I'm going to wait and see what the program will actually be when it is officially rolled out to the general public before I make a decision.

Also, I've seen a lot of people quoting that it will be booking 180 days out, like dining. I don't think it will be like that. I think people will have the ability to book Fastpasses 60 days out, like resort check in. While 60 days is not great, it's better than 180 days!

Stu29573
07-19-2013, 04:07 PM
As I love getting up early and getting to the parks at rope drop, FP+ means nothing to me. Also, I dont even take my phone to the parks. I like to wander and be free without an electronic chain around my neck... But thats just me...

MrPeetrie
07-19-2013, 04:41 PM
As opposed to paying extra for FastPass+, I think Disney will go in the way of enhanced benefits for those staying on property versus off site. .

Maybe on-site guests can login online at 4:00 am and make their reservations, while off-site guests will need to wait until 7 am to speak to a Cast Member.

Or maybe on-site guests receive more flexibility than off-site guests.

I'm just hypothesizing, but I think Disney wants to encourage (coerce) its guests to stay on location.

MargaretMessler
07-19-2013, 05:03 PM
I refuse to be pushed into planning every moment of my vacation, and being stressed b/c I have to make a certain FP time. We already feel that way about meals, I do NOT want to feel that way about rides. Blech. :ack:

Amen to that! Vacations shouldn't be like work. Dinner reservations, fine. (Though 6 months out is pushing it.) Tours, fine. But rides? No way!

MargaretMessler
07-19-2013, 05:05 PM
I just don't see why it's that difficult to use the current system. Get a FP, ride a few not so high demand things, use the FP, and then get another.

Me either. I always say, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. I wouldn't mind some tweaking of the system as to how soon after getting one FP you can get another...like maybe you can be allowed to have two at once, but don't have to wait to grab another...but other than that, this works fine.

Arielfan98
07-19-2013, 06:11 PM
I just don't agree with the FP+ system at all I feel like the first come first serve idea with regular FPs are good enough. My family is not made of morning people and yet we still get to the parks around 12 and still end up getting FPs for 99.99% of the rides we want to go on...except for TSM. But besides that we are happy to either wait or go on a single rider line if there is one. Whether Disney plans on charging eventually for FP+ or not I don't see the value in it because no one will know the EMH that early in advance and my family builds around that.

MickeysBestPal
07-19-2013, 06:28 PM
All of the "six months in advance" discussion should be tempered with the info that FP+ reservations look to be earliest available at the 60-days-before check-in date.

I'm no fan of FP+, but planning attractions for 60 days in advance is a little better than trying to plan them for 180 days out.

Now, with that said...

Let's say that you already HAVE done your meal ADR's at the 180 day (or so) mark, pre-trip.

Then, the 60-day FP+ date comes, and you then find that you can't get the FP+'s that you want at the same park(s) (or the correct times) as your ADR meals...

Hmmmmmmmmmm.

Giggy
07-20-2013, 09:16 AM
Disagree with the suggestion of paying for FP. They already do this at Universal and we just refuse to use them. WDW shouldn't treat some guests as second class citizens because they can't afford to pay extra of stay on site.

Eric87
07-20-2013, 12:14 PM
I think they are way over thinking this system and wish they would just do away with fastpass as a whole. What ever happened to just waiting in line for a ride and talking to new friends while the anticipation builds.

MickeysBestPal
07-20-2013, 12:18 PM
I think they are way over thinking this system and wish they would just do away with fastpass as a whole. What ever happened to just waiting in line for a ride and talking to new friends while the anticipation builds.

As one who was a park veteran for years before FP, I don't have the desire to talk to new friends for 3 hours every time I want to ride Splash Mtn., Space Mtn., and Indy Jones Temple.

MNNHFLTX
07-20-2013, 12:24 PM
I go on vacation to get away from deadlines, not to add even more of them. Not a fan of Fastpass+. I also think they should go back to being more lenient about the Fastpass return time. When we went to Disneyland Paris in May, they still allowed people to come back at any point after the return time. It was great! :thumbsup:

DisneyDawgette
07-20-2013, 12:31 PM
As opposed to paying extra for FastPass+, I think Disney will go in the way of enhanced benefits for those staying on property versus off site. .

Maybe on-site guests can login online at 4:00 am and make their reservations, while off-site guests will need to wait until 7 am to speak to a Cast Member.

Or maybe on-site guests receive more flexibility than off-site guests.

I'm just hypothesizing, but I think Disney wants to encourage (coerce) its guests to stay on location.


I tend to agree with this thought...I wouldn't completely write off FP+ being a paid item, but there are also other options to consider. At the end of the day, it's all speculation and there isn't anything we can do about it.

However, it is sad to me to see how impatient we have become. To "refuse" to wait more than X number of minutes is kind of silly to me- if that's the case, I would never ever ride Soarin', even with a FP. The last time we got a FP for Soarin' (which was gotten by 9:45am, and the time slot wasn't until 5:30pm), we still ended up waiting almost 40 minutes. We can't anticipate lines, with or without a FP. And it's vacation at a very busy location- how can you expect to not wait for anything? Even when you use FP as it is now, you will inevitably wait for something until your FP comes available, or you just won't ride much. :(

However, I think that FP+ needs to be implemented before I take a huge stance on it. It saves me from running to the back of the park to grab a FP and even allows me to set a later time if I know I want to sleep in. But, there is also the flexibility of the system to consider, and I think it will be very dependent on how easy obtaining the FP is up to the date of your visit! There is also the concern of whether or not you will have to shell out for the special system. We will have to wait and see!

Mrs Bus Driver
07-20-2013, 01:04 PM
I have been going back and forth on the FP+, so I guess I'll have to wait and see. On the one hand I don't mind 60 days out getting fp's so I don't have to run around so much. On the other hand being limited to 3 a day in one park could be a problem. What is the point in having a parkhopper if I can't use at least 1 fp in a different park? I may start my day at MK and then hop over to DHS, so why can't I get a fp for toy story that afternoon and only use 2 fps at MK? So if their are any Disney executives reading this board please answer my question. If you want me to obsessively plan my trip then why can't you give me more flexibility? :confused:

MrPeetrie
07-20-2013, 03:08 PM
If you want me to obsessively plan my trip then why can't you give me more flexibility? :confused:

Well said!!!!!

merciantinkerbell
07-20-2013, 03:59 PM
I don't quite understand this Fastpass+. Correct if I'm wrong but it seems to me that, say, lots of people book Splash Mountain 6 months in advance, if I go without "booking" its a possibility that the ride is booked up for the day and I can't get on? If so, that seems very unfair on those who either can't or don't want to be that regimented. I've only been once to Disney World once but we had an idea of want we really wanted to do in each park, and went with the flow the rest of the time but Fastpass+ could stop that spontinaity :confused:

Scrappy2
07-20-2013, 04:22 PM
I'm not a fan of booking fast passes 180 days in advance. We ended up with some extra money and doing a long weekend trip to Disney before our Ap passes expire. Since their just a few days not getting my first choice in dining is ok. But if I cannot get fast passes to most popular rides I would pick a different destination.

ANG
07-20-2013, 04:27 PM
I tend to agree with this thought...I wouldn't completely write off FP+ being a paid item, but there are also other options to consider. At the end of the day, it's all speculation and there isn't anything we can do about it.

However, it is sad to me to see how impatient we have become. To "refuse" to wait more than X number of minutes is kind of silly to me- if that's the case, I would never ever ride Soarin', even with a FP. The last time we got a FP for Soarin' (which was gotten by 9:45am, and the time slot wasn't until 5:30pm), we still ended up waiting almost 40 minutes. We can't anticipate lines, with or without a FP. And it's vacation at a very busy location- how can you expect to not wait for anything? Even when you use FP as it is now, you will inevitably wait for something until your FP comes available, or you just won't ride much. :(

However, I think that FP+ needs to be implemented before I take a huge stance on it. It saves me from running to the back of the park to grab a FP and even allows me to set a later time if I know I want to sleep in. But, there is also the flexibility of the system to consider, and I think it will be very dependent on how easy obtaining the FP is up to the date of your visit! There is also the concern of whether or not you will have to shell out for the special system. We will have to wait and see!

I "refuse" to wait no longer than 20 minutes for almost any ride. And not because I'm impatient. It's because I know there are tons of other fantastic rides and attractions I could be doing instead of standing in a crowded line. Waiting in line for over an hour for ANY attractions is the silly part to me. I'm also not the type of person who will find a spot for Wishes an hour ahead of time. I'm so tickled to be at WDW in the first place. Being anywhere you can basically see the fireworks is just fine for me. I go to WDW with a very calm attitude and yes I realize there will be a lot of waiting in total.

DizneyFreak2002
07-20-2013, 05:25 PM
I don't quite understand this Fastpass+. Correct if I'm wrong but it seems to me that, say, lots of people book Splash Mountain 6 months in advance, if I go without "booking" its a possibility that the ride is booked up for the day and I can't get on? If so, that seems very unfair on those who either can't or don't want to be that regimented. I've only been once to Disney World once but we had an idea of want we really wanted to do in each park, and went with the flow the rest of the time but Fastpass+ could stop that spontinaity :confused:

The FP+ system will allow you to book a FastPass for Splash Mountain 60 days, not 180 days (6 months)... If you don't book your FastPass, yes, there is a chance the FP availability will "sell out"... You won't be able to get a FP but can still ride Splash Mountain if you want to stand in the stand by line queue...

As for the spontaneous trip goers, I do believe this will kill those spontaneous plans...

BrerGnat
07-20-2013, 06:21 PM
The FP+ system will allow you to book a FastPass for Splash Mountain 60 days, not 180 days (6 months)... If you don't book your FastPass, yes, there is a chance the FP availability will "sell out"... You won't be able to get a FP but can still ride Splash Mountain if you want to stand in the stand by line queue...

As for the spontaneous trip goers, I do believe this will kill those spontaneous plans...

Thank you for posting this clarification. I was about to mention the same thing.

Disney's official literature has always been that you can schedule FP+ 60 days in advance. 180 days was never mentioned. People just made the assumption based on the dining system.

I think Disney should just push everything to 60 days out. Planning for anything beyond that, with the exception of a wedding, is ridiculous.

The only thing I don't like about the FP+ system (based on explanations on how it will work) is that you can only get FP for one park per day. That is a real problem. How will they continue to market the Park Hopping option with that limitation in place?

DizneyFreak2002
07-20-2013, 07:58 PM
The only thing I don't like about the FP+ system (based on explanations on how it will work) is that you can only get FP for one park per day. That is a real problem. How will they continue to market the Park Hopping option with that limitation in place?

Which is why I said at the beginning when the word first came out about this that park hopping as we know it will change, or end for most people... Still doable though...

Micromanage/microplan your most MAGICAL Disney stress heart attack, I mean vacation right down to the minute (including bathroom breaks!!!!) to the point that you decide to park hop 60 days in advance... Pick DHS (since it is a poor park and can be done in 3 hours) and DAK since it has little substance (can be done in 3 hours)... Book FP+ for TSMM, Star Tours, and Tower of Terror in the afternoon... Go to DAK in the morning and knock off the 5 things to do there by 12... head over to DHS and make sure you book your FP+ from 2:00 to later... And you just successfully park hopped... of course, the heart attack you had 2 months prior from the stress of booking your trip would prevent you from doing Everest, Tower of Terror, Rock N Roller Coaster....

VWL Mom
07-21-2013, 08:37 AM
I don't quite understand this Fastpass+. Correct if I'm wrong but it seems to me that, say, lots of people book Splash Mountain 6 months in advance, if I go without "booking" its a possibility that the ride is booked up for the day and I can't get on?

It is my understanding that there will only be a limited number of FP+ available for each ride. I have read that this will actually speed up the stand-by lines so folks like you and I that aren't planners will still get to enjoy the rides.

1DisneyNut
07-21-2013, 09:12 AM
It is my understanding that there will only be a limited number of FP+ available for each ride. I have read that this will actually speed up the stand-by lines so folks like you and I that aren't planners will still get to enjoy the rides.

That is the exact same thing they said about Fastpass when it was first rolled out. I personally preferred the pre-fastpass days when you simply went into the park and everyone had to wait in the standby lines.

The rides have a maximum throughput. When the parks are busy and the lines back up causing a wait time, the ride is running at maximum throughput. No matter what you call the lines or how people get there, the ride can still only carry so many per hour. All fastpass does is gives those that are really good at time management and logistics an upper hand and allows them to ride more rides in a given time. I don't like fastpass but I am very good at utilizing them to their fullest......I would just prefer not to be put in a position where I am doing all that logistical thinking and mathematics while on vacation. It is like being at work while I am on vacation.

For example, we were there for a short trip July 4. On July 5, we were able to do every ride in Magic Kingdom we wanted to do and we did Splash Mountain 3 times and Pirates twice all before 1:00 PM. We did skip a few things nobody wanted to do such as Hall of presidents, Country Bear, Tom Sawyer and a couple others that most people skip but they didn't have any wait times so we could have just walked right in had we wanted. I will say though, the park had a decent crowd but it was way way off from what we have seen for the week of July 4 in the past.

MickeysBestPal
07-21-2013, 11:56 AM
It is my understanding that there will only be a limited number of FP+ available for each ride. I have read that this will actually speed up the stand-by lines so folks like you and I that aren't planners will still get to enjoy the rides.

For a heavily-promoted new FP system to be put into effect, Disney must make a significant number of FP+ positions available in the system.
(Otherwise, why spend the money to create and promote FP+ as their "breakthrough" in guest park enjoyment?)

To make enough FP+ available, they will have to reduce the number of "non-FP+" ride positions available. (That's because a given attraction can only carry X number of guests per hour and per day. That is a hard maximum due to number of seats, and length of ride of a given attraction.)

So, the only outcome that favors the "new system" being usable by the maximum number of guests... is to add more FP/FP+ positions per attraction.
After first pulling all or many or most of the (former) "regular FP" positions and converting those to FP+ positions...
the rest of the new FP+ positions must come from the only place that they CAN come from... at least SOME of the (formerly available) standby positions.
This must slow the standby line.
Will this be the case for ALL attractions?
Nope.
But, since they are adding FP+ to a whole lot of attractions that previously did not offer FP at all... it means that MOST attractions' standby lines will be negatively affected (to one degree or another) by the roll-out of FP+.

VWL Mom
07-21-2013, 12:01 PM
For a heavily-promoted new FP system to be put into effect, Disney must make a significant number of FP+ positions available in the system.
(Otherwise, why spend the money to create and promote FP+ as their "breakthrough" in guest park enjoyment?)

To make enough FP+ available, they will have to reduce the number of "non-FP+" ride positions available. (That's because a given attraction can only carry X number of guests per hour and per day. That is a hard maximum due to number of seats, and length of ride of a given attraction.)

So, the only outcome that favors the "new system" being usable by the maximum number of guests... is to add more FP's positions per attraction.
Those extra FP positions must come from the only place that they CAN come from... at least SOME of the (formerly available) standby positions.
This must slow the standby line.
Will this be the case for ALL attractions?
Nope.
But, since they are adding FP+ to a whole lot of attractions that previously did not offer FP at all... it means that MOST attractions' standby lines will be negatively affect (to one degree or another) by the roll-out of FP+.

I see what you're saying. On the other hand, currently we get 5-6 FP a day whether that's in 1 park or park hopping. Do you think limiting the count to 3 will have an effect?

MickeysBestPal
07-21-2013, 12:59 PM
I see what you're saying. On the other hand, currently we get 5-6 FP a day whether that's in 1 park or park hopping.


Do you think limiting the count to 3 will have an effect?

It will have an effect.
But, that effect will be mitigated by the 60-day window throughout which guests can join.
Plus, the heavy promotion (emails, web-links, network TV spots, encouragement to use FP+ by phone CM's, travel agent participation, etc.) through which more and more guests will partake of the new program.
Disney is even offering to pick your FP+ FOR you at the click of a mouse.

It would likely mean far more guests using the new system than used the old FP's in the past (a stated goal of Disney brass.)

eandrsmom
07-21-2013, 01:19 PM
I don't think I'd pay extra for FP+ at Disney. We've been too many times, and have been on everything to justify the expense. However, we are going to Universal in a few weeks and purchased the Express Pass option. When we were there last summer, we were unable to ride some rides because of the crowds and heat. Some of the waits were almost two hours. Since we hadn't visited Universal in over 10 years, there were several attractions that we had to skip. For us, it was worth paying extra this time so that we would have the opportunity to ride things that we've never been on.
The thing about Universal's system that I really like, is that they don't dictate a specific time window that you have to return to an attraction. You pay for Express Pass and tour the park at your pace, riding what you like. I wish Disney could take note of this, I really don't want to have to plan 60 days out.

Aurora
07-21-2013, 01:21 PM
For a heavily-promoted new FP system to be put into effect, Disney must make a significant number of FP+ positions available in the system.
(Otherwise, why spend the money to create and promote FP+ as their "breakthrough" in guest park enjoyment?)

To make enough FP+ available, they will have to reduce the number of "non-FP+" ride positions available. (That's because a given attraction can only carry X number of guests per hour and per day. That is a hard maximum due to number of seats, and length of ride of a given attraction.)

So, the only outcome that favors the "new system" being usable by the maximum number of guests... is to add more FP/FP+ positions per attraction.
After first pulling all or many or most of the (former) "regular FP" positions and converting those to FP+ positions...
the rest of the new FP+ positions must come from the only place that they CAN come from... at least SOME of the (formerly available) standby positions.
This must slow the standby line.
Will this be the case for ALL attractions?
Nope.
But, since they are adding FP+ to a whole lot of attractions that previously did not offer FP at all... it means that MOST attractions' standby lines will be negatively affected (to one degree or another) by the roll-out of FP+.

1. ALL of this depends on how many people will use the FP+ system, which no one knows right now.

2. You can assume that more FP+s will be made available for rides across the park, but you cannot assume that more FPs will be made available for the most popular rides, for the very "maximum capacity" argument you make above. So if this is true, for the most popular rides, FP+ will make no difference at all.

3. If people plan to ride a particular attraction on a given day, it doesn't matter whether they are holding a FP+ or using the standby line. They would be taking the same number of seats available on a ride. So whether they use a FP or the standby line is irrelevant to wait times.

4. The guests who will be most impacted by FP+ are the ones who currently use more than 3 FPs per day. They are the ones who will see their wait times increased, not because standby lines will be longer, but because they will be using standby lines more often.

CAVEATS:

There are two things that, if they happen, would increase wait times: One is if Disney does make more FPs available for the most popular rides == the ones that currently run out during the day. And I haven't seen anything to indicate that they will do this.

The second is CMs who don't understand that you don't have to hold the standby line while NO ONE is in the FP line, just to make sure you allow the "quota" of FP guests before opening up the standby line again. I've seen this happen with Soarin', and this unnecessarily increases standby wait times.

And to go back to the OP, I hope they never charge extra for FP+.

KylesMom
07-21-2013, 01:43 PM
Just priced Six Flags in Gurnee, IL version of FP for four people - base tix with large gate discount from Discover increases the single day cost to almost $100 per person. We're going to make a day of it before we head up to Road America, and since I haven't been there in about 20 years, thought it would be nice. No way! Hopefully Disney will keep FP free - but if they don't,it will be a real shame. With the continuation of ridiculous price increases we have not as a family been able to afford a Disney vacation in two years now. Very sad to me. As an aside, I don't see them reducing gate prices if they were to charge for FP either!

MickeysBestPal
07-21-2013, 02:19 PM
if Disney does make more FPs available for the most popular rides == the ones that currently run out during the day. And I haven't seen anything to indicate that they will do this.


As one who has kept up very diligently on this progression of events, I can tell you that there are many indications that Disney has ALREADY added more FP's to the current FP attractions in preparation for the incoming system.

It was stated by some CM's at the time of the stopping of the ability to "use a FP at any time that same day following the earliest Return Time" that it looked like more FP positions were being added to attractions to maximize the number of FP guests on a given day.

Altair
07-21-2013, 02:47 PM
The second is CMs who don't understand that you don't have to hold the standby line while NO ONE is in the FP line, just to make sure you allow the "quota" of FP guests before opening up the standby line again. I've seen this happen with Soarin', and this unnecessarily increases standby wait times.



This has also happened on Splash Mountain, but the mother of all is Peter Pan's Flight. You don't even have to slow down if you are in that Fast Pass line.

Test Track as always been one of the best for moving folks in all three of their lines. :mickey:

Aurora
07-21-2013, 02:55 PM
It was stated by some CM's at the time of the stopping of the ability to "use a FP at any time that same day following the earliest Return Time" that it looked like more FP positions were being added to attractions to maximize the number of FP guests on a given day.

Barring any real statistics from someone with knowledge of the exact number of FPs distributed, it's more likely that CMs were noticing there were more people filing into their ASSIGNED time for their FPs, since guests no longer had the flexibility to use them later. This would certainly make it look like more FPs were being given out when that wasn't the case.

Tekneek
07-23-2013, 11:26 AM
Not in favor of the selling of FP+ slots. I wouldn't think Disney wants to devalue the VIP tour, so prices would have to be set in a way that they don't kill off the VIP tour business.

joonyer
07-23-2013, 12:10 PM
Many other theme parks have been charging extra for express type passes for years, so I expect it's just a matter of time before it happens at WDW, one way or another. I fully expect it will begin with limiting the free FPs to WDW resort guests, and charging others for them, in an effort to drive occupancy rates higher. That's where WDW really makes it's money. The parks are now just there mainly to fill hotel rooms and sell DVC units. They don't really care about wait times, they want to sell hotel rooms.

Tekneek
07-23-2013, 12:25 PM
They don't really care about wait times, they want to sell hotel rooms.

Might say they don't care about anything but money. They care about "show" and "guest experience" only so much as they must in order to make money. Somewhat of a shift in mindset. Disney used to be a leader, not a follower, and doing anything just because everybody else does is following some other leader.

joonyer
07-23-2013, 12:30 PM
Might say they don't care about anything but money. They care about "show" and "guest experience" only so much as they must in order to make money. Somewhat of a shift in mindset. Disney used to be a leader, not a follower, and doing anything just because everybody else does is following some other leader.

Yes, and the way they make the most money is to sell DVC units, rent hotel rooms, and by selling food (including dining plans). That's where the big net profit is. They don't make much off selling park tickets.

Tekneek
07-23-2013, 12:42 PM
Yes, and the way they make the most money is to sell DVC units, rent hotel rooms, and by selling food (including dining plans). That's where the big net profit is. They don't make much off selling park tickets.

Yeah. Seems like it was all different, or at least the perception was different. WDW didn't exist because Disney wanted to run hotels and sell timeshares. I'm beating a dead horse, but I wish Disney was trying to do something more than just make a bunch of money. Even the "better future for us all" concepts, that were once a crucial part of EPCOT Center, have been abandoned. They're not even pretending anymore.

merciantinkerbell
07-23-2013, 04:13 PM
Thanks everyone for all the clarifications. We don't go until Oct 2014 when this Fastpass+ could possibly be up and running and it was a bit worrying that rides could be "booked" and we wouldn't be able to get on anything. Planning like that so far in advance is not something we want or can do. Good to know we should just be able to turn up and either stand by or get regular Fastpass

kcrc
07-23-2013, 09:59 PM
I'm prefacing this by saying I have no idea what the process will look like to book the FP+ reservations.... But, I hope they take into account that all of the people in a room may not want to ride the same ride at the same time. For example, my daughter and I may want to make a FP+ reservation for Splash Mountain. My son and husband do not prefer water rides, so they could use their FP+ option for something else. Will such a situation be allowed?

Tekneek
07-24-2013, 10:42 AM
For example, my daughter and I may want to make a FP+ reservation for Splash Mountain. My son and husband do not prefer water rides, so they could use their FP+ option for something else. Will such a situation be allowed?

If the way the dining reservations system works is any indicator, it won't handle splitting the party up well (if at all). I couldn't split our group up for a breakfast without getting human intervention for the second ADR. If they have figured out a way to split groups for FP+, I sure hope they port it over to the dining reservation system too. Having to call a human for each time your entire group isn't wanting the same FP+ reservation will quickly turn into a nightmare.

DizneyFreak2002
07-24-2013, 12:52 PM
Thanks everyone for all the clarifications. We don't go until Oct 2014 when this Fastpass+ could possibly be up and running and it was a bit worrying that rides could be "booked" and we wouldn't be able to get on anything. Planning like that so far in advance is not something we want or can do. Good to know we should just be able to turn up and either stand by or get regular Fastpass

This system will be up and running by October 2014... But you probably won't be able to get regular FP if this system is fully functional... Once you agree to magic bands, you are out of luck with the current FP system...


I'm prefacing this by saying I have no idea what the process will look like to book the FP+ reservations.... But, I hope they take into account that all of the people in a room may not want to ride the same ride at the same time. For example, my daughter and I may want to make a FP+ reservation for Splash Mountain. My son and husband do not prefer water rides, so they could use their FP+ option for something else. Will such a situation be allowed?

Does not appear you will be able to do that... Your media (tickets) will be linked together under one account (yours or your husband's)... So, if you buy 4 tickets, all four tickets will be linked to your account... The FP+ will be booked under your account, thus all four tickets will get the same FP+... If you get only two FP+ for Splash and then 2 for something else, that would go against your allotment of 3 for the day...

merciantinkerbell
07-24-2013, 03:21 PM
So, no regular Fastpass when this new system is up and running?

Tekneek
07-25-2013, 09:56 AM
So, no regular Fastpass when this new system is up and running?

I don't know if we know this with 100% certainty, but all indications are that the current FP system will be gone once FP+ is fully live.

DizneyFreak2002
07-25-2013, 04:57 PM
So, no regular Fastpass when this new system is up and running?
According to the FAQ, when you get your Magic Bands and book FP+, you will not be able to use the current FP system... Which leads us to believe (plus people with an ear inside the hallways have said as much) that the system will go away... During testing, however, guests who are participating are allowed to use both...

joonyer
07-25-2013, 06:12 PM
Once the current FP system is completely phased out, it will be relatively easy for WDW to start charging for the FP+ access, or more likely to stat offering it as an incentive to those who stay on-site, while charging others for access. It's not that hard to see the future of where this is going.

DizneyFreak2002
07-25-2013, 07:56 PM
Once the current FP system is completely phased out, it will be relatively easy for WDW to start charging for the FP+ access, or more likely to stat offering it as an incentive to those who stay on-site, while charging others for access. It's not that hard to see the future of where this is going.
They have already laid the ground work for this... Reading the FAQ they clearly state that you will get 3 FP+ a day... And they then state the amount could differ depending on the vacation package you book... So they laid the foundation... Now it is just waiting for them to construct the building...

merciantinkerbell
07-26-2013, 04:16 PM
Hmmmmmmmmmm, no regular Fastpass? Seems a little unfair on those who can't or don't want to use it. Hey ho, on the bright side maybe stand-by lines will be shorter. I can't see hubby and I booking rides so far in advance so stand-by it is

MickeysBestPal
07-26-2013, 07:43 PM
on the bright side maybe stand-by lines will be shorter.

Sorry to say that this is exactly the opposite of what is expected.

If you add more FP positions to a ride or add FP to a ride that did not previously offer FP (something that is happening at several rides,) the Standby Lines on those attractions would be slowed.

Gator
07-27-2013, 12:08 AM
So if I live in Orlando and have an Annual Pass, I would love to maybe take, say, next Monday off and hit DHS.

Monday: My,my, what a wonderful day. Let's grab a fastpass for Toy Story. What? It's out? But it's 9:15am. OK, let's go over to Tower of Terror to grab a fastpass. It's all out, too? And so is RnRC? Sheesh, I guess we'll go enjoy Star Tours...... say what? Let's go to Universal.

mickeyman42
07-27-2013, 09:36 AM
Monday: My,my, what a wonderful day. Let's grab a fastpass for Toy Story. What? It's out? But it's 9:15am. OK, let's go over to Tower of Terror to grab a fastpass. It's all out, too? And so is RnRC? Sheesh, I guess we'll go enjoy Star Tours...... say what? Let's go to Universal.

Problem over there is that you either wait in the standby or PURCHASE the express pass, which is where Disney is headed IMHO. of course with express pass you're not limited to so many rides per day and you dont have to book it 6 months in advance. I would think that since they (Disney) nickel and dimes everything now, they look down the road and see that Universal has no problem getting people to pay a crazy per day charge for express pass and wonder to themselves why are they "giving" fasspass away for "free."

with that said, if Disney was going to charge for FP+, how much could you charge for a limited number of FP per day (ie 3)? who would pay $20-30 per day so that they can book 3 rides per day, 6 months in advance? or maybe I'm missing something

joonyer
07-27-2013, 10:56 AM
Problem over there is that you either wait in the standby or PURCHASE the express pass, which is where Disney is headed IMHO. of course with express pass you're not limited to so many rides per day and you dont have to book it 6 months in advance. I would think that since they (Disney) nickel and dimes everything now, they look down the road and see that Universal has no problem getting people to pay a crazy per day charge for express pass and wonder to themselves why are they "giving" fasspass away for "free."

with that said, if Disney was going to charge for FP+, how much could you charge for a limited number of FP per day (ie 3)? who would pay $20-30 per day so that they can book 3 rides per day, 6 months in advance? or maybe I'm missing something

Once they start charging for FP+ (and they WILL) they will probably offer enhanced levels of FP+. Pay more, get more. Enjoy free FP's while you can. They are an endangered species, about to become extinct.

AgentC
07-27-2013, 02:39 PM
Does not appear you will be able to do that... Your media (tickets) will be linked together under one account (yours or your husband's)... So, if you buy 4 tickets, all four tickets will be linked to your account... The FP+ will be booked under your account, thus all four tickets will get the same FP+... If you get only two FP+ for Splash and then 2 for something else, that would go against your allotment of 3 for the day...

I was at the Disney site today looking for something else and noticed they now have a FAQ for Fast Pass+. This is what is says about booking different activities for your family. Hopefully it will work. :)



Q.
I have children of different ages, and they like different attractions and entertainment. Does FastPass+ service allow my family to do different activities?

A.
Yes. We want every member of your party to have a great Walt Disney World vacation—regardless of age or interests. When you make FastPass+ selections, you select which members of your party wish to experience each attraction or entertainment offering. If individuals do not want to share an experience, you can select alternate experiences for those party members.

DizneyFreak2002
07-27-2013, 08:27 PM
I was at the Disney site today looking for something else and noticed they now have a FAQ for Fast Pass+. This is what is says about booking different activities for your family. Hopefully it will work. :)
Nice find... Did not see that in the FAQ... Let's hope it works as intended...

AgentC
07-27-2013, 10:55 PM
Nice find... Did not see that in the FAQ... Let's hope it works as intended...

Fingers crossed that it works! : )

It might be new. There was a link in My Disney Experience that said Magic Bands that led to a FAQ. It seems like a small attempt to address some questions that are floating around. There was one on " spontaneity with Fast Pass +"

DizneyFreak2002
07-27-2013, 11:32 PM
Fingers crossed that it works! : )

It might be new. There was a link in My Disney Experience that said Magic Bands that led to a FAQ. It seems like a small attempt to address some questions that are floating around. There was one on " spontaneity with Fast Pass +"

I admit, I only looked for the FP+ information regarding how many guests would be allowed to book (3 or 4)... I may have skimmed over that information... Possibly they updated the FAQ again with more information... Disney really needs to do a better job at getting this information out.. For a company which loves to control the message, they do a poor job of controlling the message...

Tekneek
07-28-2013, 09:50 PM
Once they start charging for FP+ (and they WILL) they will probably offer enhanced levels of FP+. Pay more, get more. Enjoy free FP's while you can. They are an endangered species, about to become extinct.

Rather unfortunate. They will slowly turn up the heat, as they do with everything else, and one day people will act as if it has always been that way.

CU Tiger
07-29-2013, 12:22 PM
I bet Walt is turning over in his grave about this. DW was to be unique and not like the rest. I understand they are a business and must find ways to increase revenue, but they are tainting the experience. I hate to see that they are turning into Universal.:ill:

DizneyFreak2002
07-29-2013, 01:45 PM
I bet Walt is turning over in his grave about this. DW was to be unique and not like the rest. I understand they are a business and must find ways to increase revenue, but they are tainting the experience. I hate to see that they are turning into Universal.:ill:

Um, Disney SHOULD want to turn into Universal... Who is doing it right today and who isn't? Unfair swipe at Universal... Universal is giving guests the experiences they want... Disney is giving investors the profits they want, heck with guest experience...

Hammer
07-29-2013, 02:32 PM
I bet Walt is turning over in his grave about this. DW was to be unique and not like the rest. I understand they are a business and must find ways to increase revenue, but they are tainting the experience. I hate to see that they are turning into Universal.:ill:


Um, Disney SHOULD want to turn into Universal... Who is doing it right today and who isn't? Unfair swipe at Universal... Universal is giving guests the experiences they want... Disney is giving investors the profits they want, heck with guest experience...
What I think CU Tiger was implying was the fact the Universal charges for their Express Pass if you aren't staying at one of the Universal hotels, which is a revenue generator and he did not want WDW to go down that path charging for FP+.

DizneyFreak2002
07-30-2013, 10:32 PM
This was the thread some members were debating FP+ increasing wait times... Yes, it WILL increase wait times...

The ratio is 80/20... 80 FP to 20 Stand By... So, that alone tells you that stand by lines wait times will now be increasing on rides where FP does not belong...

Tekneek
08-03-2013, 09:15 AM
For people that only want to ride a few things, FP+ will be great. For people that want to ride a lot of things, FP+ will likely be a negative. For the serious planner, it was pretty easy to incorporate FP into your plan and realize a benefit. For even the most serious planner, I'm gathering that FP+ is looking less useful for anything more than second rides later in the day. This is what I am beginning to understand from the people that actually crunch the data on travel times/wait times in/around WDW.

It is also useful to note that these tests won't really reveal the secondary impact of FP+ on the wait times for your non-FP+ rides/attractions. Only when fully implemented will we get to find out what havoc, if any, it brings onto every attraction in the parks.

Aurora
08-03-2013, 11:48 AM
It is also useful to note that these tests won't really reveal the secondary impact of FP+ on the wait times for your non-FP+ rides/attractions. Only when fully implemented will we get to find out what havoc, if any, it brings onto every attraction in the parks.

:thumbsup:

JerseyDad
08-03-2013, 03:22 PM
This was the thread some members were debating FP+ increasing wait times... Yes, it WILL increase wait times...

The ratio is 80/20... 80 FP to 20 Stand By... So, that alone tells you that stand by lines wait times will now be increasing on rides where FP does not belong...

......so as the # / % of guests with FP+ increases ....more and more people become "special". And when everyone is special ...no one is special.

...I saw a remotely similar situation last year on several rides / attractions ...with regards to use of GAC's. There was more than a few instances where we were on the standard line ...and my brother and his family went on the alternate line for those with GAC's. More than 1/2 of the time ....we got on ...and off ...of the ride before they did. There were just SO many people with GAC's that it clogged that separate line. Again ....not a direct comparison ...but similar impacts.

mrte62
08-03-2013, 10:50 PM
Um, Disney SHOULD want to turn into Universal... Who is doing it right today and who isn't? Unfair swipe at Universal... Universal is giving guests the experiences they want... Disney is giving investors the profits they want, heck with guest experience...

Get ready for the "Disney is a Business" replies .... although some seem to forget what the business is ...:mickey: