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Mitzie
05-14-2013, 01:29 PM
I just read an article that if I were one of those individuals who actually has a disability and needs extra accomidations at the parks I would be very upset. The article is titled "Moms pay $1,000-a-day to hire disabled members to skip lines at Disney" This is from a majoy news website and talks about this is how the 1% does Disney...It makes those who truelly need the help face that many more problems. I do not blame Disney for this at all for I know they can't do much about it. It just is so un-ethical.

clausjo
05-14-2013, 01:36 PM
I'm a parent of a child that needs the GAC and am shocked that someone would do this! I wish my son didn't need the GAC, but he does and we're grateful for the benefit that it provides. Without it, we wouldn't be able to go as often and our trips wouldn't be nearly as enjoyable.

I would think that, if you could pay that kind of money, you would just hire one of those private tour groups to take you around.

Disgusting!

ANG
05-14-2013, 01:47 PM
I read this article too and was super upset by it. Especially as a special needs mom

SBETigg
05-14-2013, 01:52 PM
The major news site is NY Post and Fox News, which both cast some doubt on veracity. But if it is true, I think the people using the service as a perk are beyond stupid. If you have a loved one who needs a scooter or if you need a scooter, of course you're going to use it but it's not the ideal. Getting through crowded parks on a scooter or with someone on a scooter can't be easy or quick. I think it's (actually needing a scooter) one of those situations where you do what you have to do, but there are tradeoffs to perceived perks.

If you have money and want an advantage at Disney World, why not hire a guide through WDW? It's $310 and up an hour and you get VIP access with your enormous extra cost. But hey, if you can afford it... If you just wanted an edge and you think hiring a guide on a scooter is the way to do it, you could save some money and just rent a scooter yourself. Which I think is terrible if not needed, and I'm certainly not recommending it but-- why shell out big bucks for a tour guide on a scooter simply to gain an advantage? That's insensitive, rude, and again, really shows a lack of knowledge of WDW. This is not how the 1 % does Disney. This is how a few clueless insensitive individuals supposedly went to Disney.

cer
05-14-2013, 02:23 PM
If you have money and want an advantage at Disney World, why not hire a guide through WDW? It's $310 and up an hour and you get VIP access with your enormous extra cost.

I agree, there is no need to abuse the GAC system, if you were truly in the 1%, you would pay for VIP treatment.

This scooter tour guide thing is messed up.

BrerGnat
05-14-2013, 02:34 PM
Since when does a scooter give anyone an advantage in Disney Park lines?

11290
05-14-2013, 04:27 PM
Since when does a scooter give anyone an advantage in Disney Park lines?

Doesn't.

Hammer
05-14-2013, 04:32 PM
Since when does a scooter give anyone an advantage in Disney Park lines?

Exactly. My Mother uses a wheelchair (handled the same way as a scooter at WDW) and she doesn't get to "cut the line" for over 95% of the rides. In some cases, my Mom as had to wait longer that people in the regular line waiting for the car which is able to accommodate her chair (it is difficult for her to transfer). On the other rides, she is in line with everyone else.

DVC2004
05-14-2013, 05:24 PM
I heard this on the radio and this is terrible. As if people with special needs (and their families) aren't judged enough. I have a child with special needs, and though I have never had to use GAC, I am glad Disney offers this to make people's lives easier. If someone abuses it well what can you do. Those that need it should not have to be made to feel bad that they are using it for what it is meant for! :mad:

conan617
05-14-2013, 05:45 PM
I posted that this was happening in a trip report a year and a half ago. I caught some heat from people saying that they had a family member needed a GAC.

I just thought it was sickening to see the same family a few times throughout the day cutting the line with the use of a scooter. I wouldn't have even noticed if the same person used the scooter the whole day instead of family members taking turns.

When I read the article I thought - If this person has enough money to hire a "guide", why don't they find a child that actually needs a GAC and take him/her and their family on vacation? The $130/hour they were paying for the "guide" could add up to a nice vacation for someone in the 99% that could really use it. That way, rather than beating the system they would be doing some good in the world.

Apparently one of the things money can't buy is common decency.

WDWdriver
05-14-2013, 06:27 PM
Let me clarify some details here.

First of all, the fact that a guest is in a wheelchair or scooter does not (in most cases) give that guest any special access to the attraction. Most queues are wheelchair accessible, and those guests wait in line along with everyone else.

However, guests who receive a Guest Assistance Card (GAC) from Guest Relations are often given special access whether they are in a wheelchair/scooter or not. The guest may have a disability that renders him/her unable to wait in lines that are long or unshaded. The cards are stamped by Guest Relations with symbols that tell CMs what kind of access is to be given to the guest. The stamped symbol will often indicate that the guest and his/her party are to be admitted to the Fast Pass queue or sometimes a side entrance.

So the potential for abuse is with the GAC, not the wheelchair. And unfortunately the abuse is widespread. We see it every day.

Melanie
05-14-2013, 06:38 PM
So the potential for abuse is with the GAC, not the wheelchair. And unfortunately the abuse is widespread. We see it every day.

Yes, it is. Unfortunately there are CMs who tell their friends how to go get GACs when there is no need, just so they won't have to wait in line. I know this for a fact. I think it's ridiculous that more isn't done to verify these things.

TinkerbellT421
05-14-2013, 07:19 PM
Deleted...lol

Apparently there is another tour group with a similar name in florida that appears to be a scam. So nevermind

finaldynasty
05-14-2013, 08:34 PM
i just hope that this does not make it harder for families that really need to go to the front of the line, but I fear it will. :mad:

Hammer
05-14-2013, 11:10 PM
So the potential for abuse is with the GAC, not the wheelchair. And unfortunately the abuse is widespread. We see it every day.

Would have been nice if the article got the facts correct. The awful thing about this scam is it makes people who honestly need a GAC or use a wheelchair/scooter treated terribly by people who just assume they don't "really" need it.

gueli
05-15-2013, 06:05 AM
When I read this in the NY post, I was skeptical. While it might be a scam, or a sham, according to what I saw, the guide does have some disability.
Could people be abusing this, of course they can.
Do people abuse privileges, of course some do.
Because I have faith in humanity, I have to believe that the Majority of people who need GAC should be allowed to have their child or loved one be given the courtesy of having a shorter ride wait. And with my faith, I have to believe that the hardships that the people who need this type of privilege is enough for the rest of us who do not need special assistance to make room for them and give them a little bit of a break.
Now someone who is "paying for this type of privilege" should get what is coming to them...:nono:

Please understand I know that this topic is more about people abusing privileges, but I think the people who need special assistance ...well need help. Someone who abuses a privileges that are meant for people with disabilities ... well they need help too, just a different type

TinkerbellT421
05-15-2013, 08:09 AM
Thinking about it last night, if this is true it is utterly despicable on many levels. I spent a couple hours doing some google searching and coming up empty as far as any true hard core facts written anywhere. But, of course, I had to realize that not all cheats of systems are written in black and white and only a select few usually know of them.

It makes me sad to think of the saying "one bad apple ruins the bunch". I can't help but think that if this is true then Disney will enforce some rule that is going to end up punishing everyone that truly does need assistance. And for that I feel awful. :(

SBETigg
05-15-2013, 09:14 AM
It makes me sad to think of the saying "one bad apple ruins the bunch". I can't help but think that if this is true then Disney will enforce some rule that is going to end up punishing everyone that truly does need assistance. And for that I feel awful. :(

Well, this really isn't any different than the average abuse of GAC we've discussed any time here in the past, except for the fact that some yahoo (or maybe a few of them) is paying someone else an exorbitant fee to use their disability-- which is the juicy angle the reporter who came up with this story reported on.

We all know there is abuse, and I don't think this article will change it. But not many people are willing (or clueless enough) to pay someone to use their disability when they could easily just fake it on their own, if that was their nature. And I like to think that not many people are insensitive enough to fake it, either. I can't imagine anyone actually enjoying their time in the parks knowing they're manipulating a system meant to help people who need it, but there are jerks everywhere. I guess the story is more fascinating when it's a rich jerk bragging about her ability to buy others and cheat the system, but I doubt this is all that widespread, in the case of paying disabled guides just for the "edge". I'm not sure that many people are that stupid. There are better ways to get ahead if you have the money. Really just another article designed to make us all say "wow, rich people are jerks." And of course, not all of them are.

clausjo
05-15-2013, 01:10 PM
With all the press this is getting, do you think we should bring my son's diagnosis and/or a doctor's note with us in June? I'm concerned Disney will be more strict with distributing the GAC with the alternate entrance stamps because of this. We've never brought it with us before, but just explained what his difficulties are and been given the pass. Unfortunately, my son has true issues that the GAC helps tremendously with. We don't use it all the time, but it certainly helps when we need it. His meltdowns have become much fewer and far between since we discovered the benefit of the GAC and I'd hate to lose that because of people abusing the system.

BrerGnat
05-15-2013, 01:48 PM
Jodi, privacy laws will not permit Disney to ask to prove a disability and they are not allowed to even read a note from a doctor. Just keep doing what you have done in the past as that is the procedure.

CMs are very aware of GAC abuse. It's not a new thing.

ginny57
05-15-2013, 02:31 PM
The simple fact is that there are people who think they are entitled and the rest of us are not. Using deception to skip the lines won't hurt me or my family in the big picture.

Spoiled and overly indulged kids often become less than stellar adults and their parents will be shocked! How did this happen? Look in the mirror.

Teach your children well......

EJS-Houston
05-15-2013, 02:46 PM
For whatever it's worth...I looked for this on snopes.com to be certain it's not a hoax, and I couldn't find anything about it.

TinkerbellT421
05-15-2013, 05:36 PM
Well, this really isn't any different than the average abuse of GAC we've discussed any time here in the past, except for the fact that some yahoo (or maybe a few of them) is paying someone else an exorbitant fee to use their disability-- which is the juicy angle the reporter who came up with this story reported on.

We all know there is abuse, and I don't think this article will change it. But not many people are willing (or clueless enough) to pay someone to use their disability when they could easily just fake it on their own, if that was their nature. And I like to think that not many people are insensitive enough to fake it, either. I can't imagine anyone actually enjoying their time in the parks knowing they're manipulating a system meant to help people who need it, but there are jerks everywhere. I guess the story is more fascinating when it's a rich jerk bragging about her ability to buy others and cheat the system, but I doubt this is all that widespread, in the case of paying disabled guides just for the "edge". I'm not sure that many people are that stupid. There are better ways to get ahead if you have the money. Really just another article designed to make us all say "wow, rich people are jerks." And of course, not all of them are.

I agree 100% with everything you said. I guess it's different in my mind because there's rumors or assumptions of abuse, but seeing it on paper, in the news, with "anonymous" people confirming its truth feels different than assuming theres abuse.

MrPeetrie
05-15-2013, 06:33 PM
If the news article is true then it is disturbing. But the unintended consequence of "hiring" a disabled individual to lessen one's wait is that those individuals are probably LENGTHENING the wait times for those families who truly need to utilize Disney's system for their family members or loved ones with unique circumstances.

WDWdriver
05-15-2013, 06:44 PM
Spoiled and overly indulged kids often become less than stellar adults and their parents will be shocked! How did this happen? Look in the mirror.

Teach your children well......

You might not need to hire someone with a disability. Sometimes you already have one in the family. Here is just one example of a very common GAC abuse involving youngsters.

A group of young people, often teens, arrive at the Fast Pass return entrance impatiently waving a GAC. The CMs admit them to the FP queue because they have to.

Question: Where did they get the GAC?

Answer: Grandpa gave it to them because Grandpa has a legitimate disability and was given the GAC by Guest Relations.

Question: So where is Grandpa?

Answer: He is sitting somewhere in the shade while the kids use his GAC to gain Fast Pass access to every ride in the park, often riding multiple times.

Question: And where are Mom and Dad?

Answer: Who knows? In a shop or restaurant? But they clearly don't care that their family is abusing the system that is intended to give a break to those who truly need it.

Final question: What have those kids learned?

Now before you flame me, I can assure you that I fully understand that disabilities are not always visible. That teen waving the GAC in our face may indeed be entitled to use it. And the other kids with him may be family members. But CMs get pretty good at observing human nature, and we usually know a scam when we see it. Especially when we see it happen over and over again.

thejens
05-15-2013, 11:57 PM
I am skeptical about this whole story. First of all, if someone paid 1000.00 they were just stupid. It is quite easy to avoid long lines with a little planning, being at parks at opening and using fast pass. Secondly, my mom had a very serious lung disease and used scooter on our last trip to WDW. It was absolutely fabulous that the GAC allowed her to participate on rides. It did not ever, as far as I could tell, give us an advantage over other riders. We always got our fast passes when possible and sometimes we even thought the fp line went faster than the handicapped area line. No worries. We were so glad Mom got to participate fully and even take her scooter on some of the rides. WDW does an amazing job of assuring access, but I did not find that disability = privilege. I would think anyone who actually (???) paid for a GAC would be the butt of the joke.

gueli
05-16-2013, 03:58 AM
You might not need to hire someone with a disability. Sometimes you already have one in the family. Here is just one example of a very common GAC abuse involving youngsters... The CMs admit them to the FP queue because they have to...they don't care that their family is abusing the system that is intended to give a break to those who truly need it. Final question: What have those kids learned?

Now before you flame me, I can assure you that I fully understand that disabilities are not always visible. That teen waving the GAC in our face may indeed be entitled to use it. And the other kids with him may be family members. But CMs get pretty good at observing human nature, and we usually know a scam when we see it. Especially when we see it happen over and over again.

I would not flame you.
Quite often the CMs have seen it all. Watching people and observing their behavior is a pastime of mine also. Its amazing how you can see the very best and worst in human nature (even within minutes of each other).:thumbsup:

To answer your last question: the kids have learned that they can use and abuse privileges, without fear or retribution.

And you are right, maybe that teen does have something going on that is not so apparent to the casual observer.
Lest of all who are we to judge ?

In the end, the majority of people who have a GAC have it for a reason.
Don't let the abusers spoil it for those in need.
:beer:

BrerGnat
05-16-2013, 08:53 AM
You might not need to hire someone with a disability. Sometimes you already have one in the family. Here is just one example of a very common GAC abuse involving youngsters.

A group of young people, often teens, arrive at the Fast Pass return entrance impatiently waving a GAC. The CMs admit them to the FP queue because they have to.

Question: Where did they get the GAC?

Answer: Grandpa gave it to them because Grandpa has a legitimate disability and was given the GAC by Guest Relations.

Question: So where is Grandpa?

Answer: He is sitting somewhere in the shade while the kids use his GAC to gain Fast Pass access to every ride in the park, often riding multiple times.

Question: And where are Mom and Dad?

Answer: Who knows? In a shop or restaurant? But they clearly don't care that their family is abusing the system that is intended to give a break to those who truly need it.

Final question: What have those kids learned?



Well, in that case, the ride CM is obviously not doing his/her job. The GAC clearly states that the person named on the GAC must be riding the ride in order for the rest of the party to use it as well. EVERY time we have gotten a GAC, right next to my son's name, they write down his date of birth and circle it. That way, my husband (for example) could not go up to a ride solo and use my son's GAC, because he's obviously not 8 years old.

In addition, at almost every ride we have presented a GAC, the CM asks "and who is Max?" We then point him out to the CM. The next question is usually, "and is Max going to be riding?" We answer "yes" and THEN we are told where to go. So, there IS a procedure that is supposed to be followed, but not all CM's follow it.

If "grandpa" gets a GAC in his name, and a teenager tries to use a card with a DOB listed as 1950 or something, then why would the CM just let them in?

Lack of enforcement leads to the rampant abuse. The issue here is that CMs don't want the confrontation.

ransam
05-16-2013, 10:31 AM
Well, in that case, the ride CM is obviously not doing his/her job. The GAC clearly states that the person named on the GAC must be riding the ride in order for the rest of the party to use it as well. EVERY time we have gotten a GAC, right next to my son's name, they write down his date of birth and circle it. That way, my husband (for example) could not go up to a ride solo and use my son's GAC, because he's obviously not 8 years old.

In addition, at almost every ride we have presented a GAC, the CM asks "and who is Max?" We then point him out to the CM. The next question is usually, "and is Max going to be riding?" We answer "yes" and THEN we are told where to go. So, there IS a procedure that is supposed to be followed, but not all CM's follow it.

If "grandpa" gets a GAC in his name, and a teenager tries to use a card with a DOB listed as 1950 or something, then why would the CM just let them in?

Lack of enforcement leads to the rampant abuse. The issue here is that CMs don't want the confrontation.

I'm not doubting your experiences at all, however my experience is something totally different.
if you looked at me, I am not handicapped, heavy, yes, but not handicapped.
However I am arthritic and have a spine injury. the first couple minutes on my feet, i'm fine, but soon the pain is so extensive i have to sit down. Because of that, i use a GAC. Not one time have i ever been questioned.
Please remember that Disney is a wonderful place, magical place.
there are going to be people all over the park that will try to do things that others may not seem is right or groups that may annoy you.
Misusing the GAC. Holding a place in line (which by the way, after taking my 3 year old son who will not sit still to save my life, i don't see as a problem any longer, lol). obnixious teenagers, the brazilian groups.
but i suggest that you just smile and not think about it.
It's your vacation. why let others dictate your mood or attitude?

BrerGnat
05-16-2013, 12:37 PM
I'm not doubting your experiences at all, however my experience is something totally different.

This is precisely my point. There is a protocol that is supposed to be followed. Obviously, it's not always followed. We have used a GAC on 4 separate occasions. Twice at Disneyworld and twice at Disneyland. The first time we used it our son was 5, at WDW. The first several rides we used it on, we were essentially interrogated as I described above. As the week went on, our experiences varied. I'd say we were questioned about who the GAC member of the party was and if he was riding, about 75% of the time.

The second time we used it at WDW (about a year and a half later), our experience was that we were questioned about 50% of the time.

At DL, both times, most recently last November, we were questioned EVERY time. And, I still have al 4 GACs, and each one has my son's date of birth written next to his name, and circled.

There are ways of enforcing GAC use. It won't work unless EVERYONE is on board though and therein lies the problem.

Just to reiterate, too, we were never asked WHY we had a GAC, just asked to prove that the person for whom the GAC was issued was indeed present in our group and would be riding.

ANG
05-16-2013, 12:52 PM
Maybe it was different for us because my son used his stroller as a "wheelchair." All I had to do was flash the red tag and no one said a thing. We were there a week and not once did I have to actually show anyone our card. I would have gladly if I was asked.

They only ever asked if he could ride without the stroller or if we wanted to keep him in it. But then again, like I said we had the wheelchair tag

WDWdriver
05-16-2013, 12:53 PM
There are ways of enforcing GAC use. It won't work unless EVERYONE is on board though and therein lies the problem.


I have worked at Disney World attractions for more than nine years and have NEVER seen a guest questioned about who the GAC was issued for and whether that person was present. Our CMs are trained to admit the person presenting the card along with the rest of their party (up to six persons total).

But I'm not surprised that the protocol is different elsewhere. There are plenty of Disney CM "rules" that are selectively enforced (or not) depending on management styles and area operating guidelines.

11290
05-16-2013, 02:04 PM
Lack of enforcement leads to the rampant abuse. The issue here is that CMs don't want the confrontation.

While in many cases (at least for me and the area that I work) "don't want the confrontation" is not really the case. It is very difficult and a VERY FINE LINE as to what we can "confront or question" a guest about a lot of times. If the guest get's "mad" about the issue (happens a lot with the GAC's), they will go to Guest Relations and file a complaint.

In many, not all, situations, management will side with the guest and not the CM. While not always right, it is what the prevailing wisdom is. Therefore CM's will sometimes "bend the rules" a bit depending on the demeanor of the guest at the time, to avoid "confrontation", not necessarily with the guest but ultimately with leadership. If it is an issue with Safety, it is handled a bit differently. If an issue of Courtesy, CM's don't have a chance (most of the time at least). If an issue of Show, those get handled a bit differently.

Bottom line, just because a CM doesn't always confront someone directly doesn't mean they aren't doing their job, they may just be using good judgement about guest relations. Dealing with some of the guests is not always a clear cut, clearly defined situation.

Just my $.02

ransam
05-16-2013, 03:04 PM
i agree w/ the above post about avoiding confrontations. I am not now or ever was a CM, however i know a few who were. They have told me for the most part they are told to, unless the guest are in danger or putting others in danger, to avoid the confrontation. DIsney does not want a confrontation to escalate and ruin the magic for a kid or other guests.

SBETigg
05-16-2013, 03:18 PM
But if it were the case presented as an example, a bunch of teenagers using Grandpa's GAC without Grandpa, wouldn't that sort of abuse be fairly simple to shut down without a lot of questioning? One look at the DOB, and "sorry kids, nice try." I don't want to suggest the CMs should be out for a confrontation, just that some cases of abuse are that obvious and why not at least stop the blatantly obvious?

BrerGnat
05-16-2013, 03:22 PM
I understand avoiding confrontations. I misspoke when I said the CMs were not doing their jobs. I mean no offense to any past or present CMs. I've never been one, so I don't really know what it's like. I apologize.

I had no issues with being asked who the GAC was for and whether or not he was riding. It says so right on the GAC that these are the rules for its use and each CM we've gotten a GAC from at Guest Relations has gone over those points in detail with us, as well as letting us know that the GAC could not be used for Character lines or parades.

I just get pretty angry when I hear about GAC abuse, and know that there are RULES for its use, printed right on the card, and it's upsetting that the CMs don't do more to make sure that people are using the GAC in the proper way. They are such sticklers for FP use enforcement but they don't extend the same type of "checking" when presented with a GAC. In addition, the GAC states on it that you are to HAND the card to the CM manning the queue. Most people just flash it quickly, and the CM never even sees it up close. A couple CMs have asked for the GAC and we've handed it over, but most do not. Why not? Just do it right! That would go a LONG way to cutting down on abuse.

The GAC situation seems to be getting out of hand, and I really wish there was a way to keep it a legitimate service.

I just have to ask, too, why would it be such a big deal if you had to somehow prove why you needed a GAC? Stupid privacy laws aside, why is it that if you want to get a handicap placard for your car, you have to prove why you need it with medical documentation, but Disney, on its own private property, cannot ask for similar when giving guests a pass that affords a type of "accommodation" that allows guests to experience the parks in a more positive way. Why do people feel so overprotective about this? If you are asking for an accommodation, I see nothing wrong with proving that you need it. Why do ADA laws extend to a service that Disney is offering, completely of its own accord, as a convenience to its guests with disabilities? I honestly don't understand the logic here and maybe someone else can explain to me what the big deal is. I have no issue explaining that my son needs a GAC due to the issues he has as a result of his Autism and I can't understand why anyone with a legitimate need would be put out to explain themselves.

Main Street Jim
05-16-2013, 10:33 PM
What Ron and Natalie said :)

Thanks for straightening out the "juicyness" of this whole thing.

DisneyGiant
05-16-2013, 11:00 PM
I just have to ask, too, why would it be such a big deal if you had to somehow prove why you needed a GAC? Stupid privacy laws aside, why is it that if you want to get a handicap placard for your car, you have to prove why you need it with medical documentation, but Disney, on its own private property, cannot ask for similar when giving guests a pass that affords a type of "accommodation" that allows guests to experience the parks in a more positive way. Why do people feel so overprotective about this? If you are asking for an accommodation, I see nothing wrong with proving that you need it. Why do ADA laws extend to a service that Disney is offering, completely of its own accord, as a convenience to its guests with disabilities? I honestly don't understand the logic here and maybe someone else can explain to me what the big deal is. I have no issue explaining that my son needs a GAC due to the issues he has as a result of his Autism and I can't understand why anyone with a legitimate need would be put out to explain themselves.

Regarding the handicapped plates - its been my experience that you do not have to prove your disability. You just need a doctor to sign off that you need handicapped parking access. It really is nobody's business why you need one.

As for the GAC - I can't believe that Disney would want to be in the business of judging people's disabilites and their needs.

I have terrible sciatica when standing on lines. I mentioned to the pain dr that I was going to WDW - and he wrote me a note. I guess an alternative would be an ECV for me - but I can walk - I just can't STAND in one place for long periods of time. Its excruciating. But to the rest of the world - I look "normal."

Even with the note - I had to plead my case to the CM at the town hall. It was so embarrassing to have to do that.

Fortunately with treatment -- the pain isn't as bad as it used to be - and I now travel with some pain killers if I know I'm going to have a long day. I also try to not get in lines longer than 30 minutes (there tends to be slow walking in those instead of standing still) but sometimes it can't be avoided.

I try not to judge other people & give them the benefit of the doubt. I feel that if they are "cheating the system" then karma will eventually catch up to them.

I also think this story is bogus. Maybe one person did it - then somehow got it in the tabloidy news.

Any way - for what its worth - there's my two cents. :)

BrerGnat
05-17-2013, 08:18 AM
I also think this story is bogus. Maybe one person did it - then somehow got it in the tabloidy news.



Just want to mention that the story is NOT bogus. The tour company admitted publicly that they know who this "woman" in the article is and they did, indeed, provide this service to her. The guide in question is a co-owner of the company and apparently has, by her own admission, an auto-immune disorder and uses an ECV. They have officially pulled the "no further comment" card, but Disney has also had a spokesman make an official statement on the topic along the lines of we take this kind of thing very seriously and we will be investigating this occurrence and making sure this type of thing is not allowed to continue happening.

This information was published in a story on CNN (I know, not exactly the pinnacle of reliable journalism these days), but both the tour operator and the Disney spokesperson were named and quoted, so I believe it's very real.

As far as I'm concerned, once is enough. This tour company AND that woman should be added to the "banned from Disney parks for life" list.

BrerGnat
05-17-2013, 08:43 AM
Regarding the handicapped plates - its been my experience that you do not have to prove your disability. You just need a doctor to sign off that you need handicapped parking access. It really is nobody's business why you need one.

As for the GAC - I can't believe that Disney would want to be in the business of judging people's disabilites and their needs.

I have terrible sciatica when standing on lines. I mentioned to the pain dr that I was going to WDW - and he wrote me a note. I guess an alternative would be an ECV for me - but I can walk - I just can't STAND in one place for long periods of time. Its excruciating. But to the rest of the world - I look "normal."

Even with the note - I had to plead my case to the CM at the town hall. It was so embarrassing to have to do that.

Fortunately with treatment -- the pain isn't as bad as it used to be - and I now travel with some pain killers if I know I'm going to have a long day. I also try to not get in lines longer than 30 minutes (there tends to be slow walking in those instead of standing still) but sometimes it can't be avoided.

I try not to judge other people & give them the benefit of the doubt. I feel that if they are "cheating the system" then karma will eventually catch up to them.

I also think this story is bogus. Maybe one person did it - then somehow got it in the tabloidy news.

Any way - for what its worth - there's my two cents. :)

Thanks for your experience. I don't think Disney CMs should be judging people or anything like that, but they do need to understand what type of accommodations people are asking for. Can you imagine being a Guest Relations CM and having people just walk in all day saying "I need a GAC. I can't wait in lines." They need more than that. And, if you TRULY have a need, you should not feel embarrassed.

However, people seem to gloss over the point that a GAC is meant for those with invisible disabilities that cannot be accommodated by the use of special equipment, like wheelchairs or ECV's. We're talking mental, emotional, or physical ailments that have nothing to do with mobility. If a wheelchair can help you by giving you a place to sit while waiting, a wheelchair is the proper accommodation, not a GAC. This is where the GAC system has become out of control. Because of social media and the internet, what was once a little known thing has become something that everyone knows about and suddenly, everyone thinks it's right for them. I see it on message boards over and over again. People post stuff like "I broke my ankle, should I get a GAC?" No! Get a wheelchair! I understand that wheelchairs cost money, and they are annoying to get around in, but if you need one, you need one.

I find it very strange that there is no longer any sort of official mention of the Guest Assistance Card on either WDW or DL's official sites. That makes me quite nervous. I am really hoping this does not mean that they plan to discontinue this program, but it is possible. Most other theme parks don't offer this sort of thing, and that is what has set Disney apart for so long. It will make me really sad if this program goes away. :(

WDWdriver
05-17-2013, 10:27 AM
I find it very strange that there is no longer any sort of official mention of the Guest Assistance Card on either WDW or DL's official sites. That makes me quite nervous. I am really hoping this does not mean that they plan to discontinue this program, but it is possible. Most other theme parks don't offer this sort of thing, and that is what has set Disney apart for so long. It will make me really sad if this program goes away. :(

That's interesting, Natalie. I'm wondering if the GAC card will be replaced by a RFID wristband in the future. Currently, we admit GAC card holders to the Fast Pass queue without any further action required.

But Fast Pass+ is coming and is already in a test mode. Our sensor posts and control console are uncovered and working. Fast Pass+ protocol will eventually require that we override the system and manually enter data for guests using the paper GAC. Wristbands for GAC guests issued by Guest Relations would be much simpler and more convenient.

I'm just speculating here. I'm not on the Fast Pass+ implementation team, and I don't have any inside information.

DisneyGiant
05-17-2013, 02:25 PM
Just want to mention that the story is NOT bogus. The tour company admitted publicly that they know who this "woman" in the article is and they did, indeed, provide this service to her. The guide in question is a co-owner of the company and apparently has, by her own admission, an auto-immune disorder and uses an ECV. They have officially pulled the "no further comment" card, but Disney has also had a spokesman make an official statement on the topic along the lines of we take this kind of thing very seriously and we will be investigating this occurrence and making sure this type of thing is not allowed to continue happening.

This information was published in a story on CNN (I know, not exactly the pinnacle of reliable journalism these days), but both the tour operator and the Disney spokesperson were named and quoted, so I believe it's very real.

As far as I'm concerned, once is enough. This tour company AND that woman should be added to the "banned from Disney parks for life" list.

Thanks for the clarification. My statement was poorly worded.

I think its bogus that other wealthy mahattanites will follow these folks footsteps. Especially now that its been exposed.

11290
05-17-2013, 03:07 PM
Wristbands for GAC guests issued by Guest Relations would be much simpler and more convenient.

I'm just speculating here. I'm not on the Fast Pass+ implementation team, and I don't have any inside information.

For WDWdriver:

Doubt that will happen. I work mostly PAC, some Park Greeter at MK and for us to do the disability areas for parades would mean we would have to use the handhelds to verify that GAC was on the wristband or if no wristband, on the guest entry card.

Not saying that it will not be done but I just don't see us getting 3 handhelds just for this for each parade. Even when we do the handhelds for the "non turnstile" wristband areas for party tickets, the WiFi signals are not that reliable on the handhelds. Maybe when the new tower comes online it will be better but it isn't / wasn't that great on the temporary tower. Temporary tower was behind Pirates and we had signal issues in front of Pirates. Maybe straightened out by now, who knows.

11290
05-17-2013, 03:17 PM
I also don't think the story is bogus, however it is written in a way that projects everyone with a GAC, wheelchair or ECV heads right to the front of the line and that is just not the case.

I think people need to wait a bit and see if Disney changes the procedures for the GAC's and go from there. I've often thought they should change the policies somewhat after seeing firsthand some of the "misuse" of the GAC, but as I sometimes say, those kind of changes are above my pay grade.

WDWdriver
05-17-2013, 04:35 PM
For WDWdriver:

Doubt that will happen. I work mostly PAC, some Park Greeter at MK and for us to do the disability areas for parades would mean we would have to use the handhelds to verify that GAC was on the wristband or if no wristband, on the guest entry card.


Thanks. I had not thought about PAC. But either way, they need to tighten up the protocol for assisting our guests with disabilities.

Apologies to all for going off topic and talking shop. :blush:

11290
05-17-2013, 04:49 PM
Apologies to all for going off topic and talking shop. :blush:

Me too.

Melanie
05-17-2013, 05:29 PM
Apologies to all for going off topic and talking shop. :blush:


Me too.

No, no. We love you guys and the insight and experience you provide. :thumbsup:

Aurora
05-17-2013, 07:37 PM
No, no. We love you guys and the insight and experience you provide. :thumbsup:

Yes, yes! Please talk more shop! :mickey: We like to live vicariously!

BrerGnat
05-18-2013, 10:05 AM
I just had a thought about how Disney might be able to cut down on GAC abuse.

Charge for the GAC.

I mean, if you think about it, they charge for wheelchair and ECV rentals. They charge for visual/hearing impairment equipment use (maybe only a deposit in case you don't return it, not sure if the actual devices are charged a rental fee).

In any event, I think a lot of the GAC abuse comes from people who *could* use a wheelchair or ECV but try to get a GAC instead because it's "free".

I, for one, would have NO problem paying for a GAC. It is not a right, it's a convenience that Disney provides for individuals/families that need it. I would gladly pay the equivalent of the daily price of a wheelchair rental for use of a GAC for our son. It's totally worth it for us.

Just throwing that out there. Would you pay for a GAC?

SBETigg
05-18-2013, 11:00 AM
I just had a thought about how Disney might be able to cut down on GAC abuse.

Charge for the GAC.

I mean, if you think about it, they charge for wheelchair and ECV rentals. They charge for visual/hearing impairment equipment use (maybe only a deposit in case you don't return it, not sure if the actual devices are charged a rental fee).

In any event, I think a lot of the GAC abuse comes from people who *could* use a wheelchair or ECV but try to get a GAC instead because it's "free".

I, for one, would have NO problem paying for a GAC. It is not a right, it's a convenience that Disney provides for individuals/families that need it. I would gladly pay the equivalent of the daily price of a wheelchair rental for use of a GAC for our son. It's totally worth it for us.

Just throwing that out there. Would you pay for a GAC?

No, and I think it leaves it just as open for abuse, if not more so. It would start to be used more as an extra option to be able to get on rides faster more than a legitimate need. People like the people in the article would be justifying buying these. If there's a price on it, why not? It can be bought is a bad message to send on something like this, no?

And to answer DisneyGiant's statement, no, I don't think other wealthy people would follow these people in the article. Most people with that kind of money would have the sense to hire the VIP guides that Disney offers. Hiring a guide for the GAC is beyond insensitive, it is legitimately stupid, a terrible waste of money, when Disney offers a service for about the same price or slightly more that does not involve bending rules or using people. It just takes a little knowledge of WDW. Also more impressive if you're looking to brag about your status. "I had a VIP escort through WDW" sounds so much better than "I hired a disabled guide to get on rides faster." And there's the final proof that people bragging in this article as if they represent the 1 % are truly just idiotic low class losers.

ANG
05-18-2013, 12:43 PM
I completely disagree with charging for a GAC. I am extremely thankful that my family gets to enjoy WDW so often but there are many who can't. Think of all the families with special needs kids that aren't in a wheelchair, they spend thousands of dollars on their child's heath care bills. They scrimp and save every last penny to go on a once in a lifetime WDW trip. And then have to pay for a GAC?

Jared
05-18-2013, 02:19 PM
The GAC situation is a disaster right now. I'm not sure there's any other way to describe it. It's a sham, it's a ruse, and it's pathetic.

There is widespread abuse of the system. Anybody who has ever been to the parks know it. The Cast Members know it, and they are powerless to stop it. The guests know it, but they don't care as long as it keeps benefiting them. Everybody knows it's a problem. If Disney decides to eliminate the program, it would be a shame for the people that it helps. But it would be a completely understandable course of action. Right now, the GAC system is hurting far more people than it is helping, and that is a sad statement.

You know, the percentage of disabled people roaming the Disney parks really is amazing. I wonder why I never see these people anywhere else in the whole wide freaking world.

What a joke.

waymickey
05-18-2013, 04:32 PM
Does the GAC card Expire? Is it a length of stay pass? Does it have a picture on it in addition to name and birthdate? Does it have the number of guests in the party? If the answers are mostly no why not add these things to the GAC card . The CM's would not have to ask many questions and quickly be able to see who the card is for and age. The card would have no value once the trip is over. for those staying on property this could become part of their regular key to the world card or RFID band. Will this solve all the problems no but it may deter some of the people who just want to abuse the system.

MY DD works at a local theme park. The park has a version of the GAC card. The guest takes the card to the exit line and is given a pass to ride according to the wait time. So if the wait time is 2 hours they have to come back in 2 hours to ride without waiting in line. Is this perfect no but I do not think they see a lot of abuse of the cards.

Mrs Bus Driver
05-18-2013, 06:54 PM
I think there is a lot of over reaction here to the story of the woman claiming to cut in line by using a disabled tour guide. Was she silly for doing it? Yes. Was she insensitive to the disabled? Yes. Is she the tip of a very large ice berg? Not likely. Most people aren't going to abuse the system like this its just to embarrassing. Most people will use fasspass, take a tour, or just go ride something else. As for the disabled tour guide, can I get that job?:thedolls: Just think about it paid to give someone a tour of WDW. I am betting this guy really likes his job :thumbsup: but like any service industry job there are always those customers you could do without. As for Disney getting rid of GAC I don't think so, think of all the bad publicity that would create. No they'll keep it even if a few abuse it.:mickey::mickey:

TheVBs
05-19-2013, 08:29 AM
Two comments in regards to the incident in the article. First, I don't think a lot of people are doing this. And, second, you really can't do anything about people like that. If someone goes to the trouble and expense to find a way to abuse the system, they will continue to make that effort. Certainly, if Disney can find a way to change something to keep it from being abused as much, that's great, but there are people who will always go all out to find a way around it. But I really think those kind of people are in the minority.

I have to say that I have never, in all our visits to WDW, noticed someone using a GAC card. I wouldn't even know they exist if it weren't for Intercot. Now, granted, I'm not the most observant person in the world, but if it were that prevalent, I would think even I would notice it.

A few other thoughts, it's great if someone is comfortable openly talking about a disability. Not everyone is and no one wants to feel uncomfortable or embarrassed on vacation, especially if they're having to ask for help. This would likely deter people genuinely needing it, not abusers. I think it's great that Disney offers this service at no charge. Again, I think charging for it would likely take the option away from people who genuinely need it, more than it would take away from abusers. Where are all these people who need GACs when they're not in WDW? How would you know them? There is no where else where you can spot them showing a GAC card.

I'm not at all denying there are abusers. I just think they're more of a minority than some people perceive. Definitely, I'm all for WDW trying to make sure abusers don't succeed, but I hope they don't end up excluding people who really do need it.

BrerGnat
05-19-2013, 09:19 AM
Does the GAC card Expire? Is it a length of stay pass? Does it have a picture on it in addition to name and birthdate? Does it have the number of guests in the party? If the answers are mostly no why not add these things to the GAC card . The CM's would not have to ask many questions and quickly be able to see who the card is for and age. The card would have no value once the trip is over. for those staying on property this could become part of their regular key to the world card or RFID band. Will this solve all the problems no but it may deter some of the people who just want to abuse the system.

MY DD works at a local theme park. The park has a version of the GAC card. The guest takes the card to the exit line and is given a pass to ride according to the wait time. So if the wait time is 2 hours they have to come back in 2 hours to ride without waiting in line. Is this perfect no but I do not think they see a lot of abuse of the cards.

The GAC is good for the length of your trip. If you are an AP holder who visits frequently, you can get one that is good for 90 days.

At Disneyland, with some rides, they do the thing where you show your GAC and they give you a card with a time stamped on it (looks like a FP ticket) and you come back and ride an hour (or whatever) later.

Main Street Jim
05-19-2013, 10:40 AM
At Disneyland, with some rides, they do the thing where you show your GAC and they give you a card with a time stamped on it (looks like a FP ticket) and you come back and ride an hour (or whatever) later.At WDW, we did the same thing at the attractions I worked at (with the exceptions of CBJ, TSI, CoP, and the steam trains).

Every attraction has a different procedure, though. For example, at Splash Mountain, if a guest came to the entrance with a GAC, the outdoor part of the queue *is* wheelchair-accessible. They would get in line, go about halfway through the regular line (just before the stairs), and a CM stationed there would let them in through the exit (on the unload side). We had room for four wheelchair/ECV guests at a time, so on busy days, some would have to wait until that area cleared out.

At Space Mountain, only the FastPass side is wheelchair-accessible. If a guest presented a GAC, we would look at what the posted wait time was, and write out a "blue card" to come back to the FastPass entrance at whatever that posted wait time was (say, 40 minutes later).

At Buzz, the entire queue is accessible. When the wheelchair party to the "Load" area, they would bypass it through the hallway to the exit area, and there, a CM would help them get loaded. Then when they got done, their chairs or scooters were right there.

Same thing at Speedway. Entire queue is accessible up to the turnstiles. There is then a gate that they go through to load on the far-outside track.

The *only* GAC cards that we were allowed to let in "right away" (skip the entire line and get *right on* the ride<s>), were the ones that said "Expedite entry" (for example, autistic children or disabled guests that couldn't stand in line or be around large crowds, due to their disability). Most queues are either indoors or shaded (another "note" that could be found on GAC - "Provide shaded waiting area"). If the GAC said "Alternate entrance", then we would write out those cards with the return time (like a hand-written FastPass) and to return to the FastPass entrance at that time (if the attraction had one; again, see the exceptions I listed above).

These guests were more than welcome to get FastPasses just like everybody else.

And, since someone asked: most GACs are written with an expiration date. They also have the number in their party (up to a total of six guests). I can recall guests coming up to my attractions with GACs that had expired over a year ago (we discretely then make a phone call to a manager or coordinator; they then confiscate the card). If I had a party of say, eight guests, I wouldn't make two of 'em go through the regular line. I'd hand-write 'em a pass.

WDWdriver
05-19-2013, 02:21 PM
Every attraction has a different procedure, though.......


Good information, Jim. It illustrates how GAC guests must be treated differently at the various attractions. You might think that Disney could develop a standard procedure that fits all attractions, but that really isn't possible due to the many variations in the ride operation, seating configuration, load & unload procedures (i.e. loading while moving vs stationary loading), and many other considerations.

At Kali and Everest GAC guests (with the appropriate stamps on the card) are admitted to the Fast Pass queue. There is no other alternate entrance, and most of the queue is shaded. They then proceed through the queue all the way to the load area. At Everest the guest must transfer into the train in the loading area. At Kali guests that need extra time or cannot board from a moving turntable are diverted to a separate stationary loading area.

It must be confusing for first-time users of a GAC. The best advice is to just present the card to the CMs at the ride entrance and then follow instructions. Don't hesitate to ask questions if you are not sure what is happening.

biodtl
05-20-2013, 09:47 AM
The awful thing about this scam is it makes people who honestly need a GAC or use a wheelchair/scooter treated terribly by people who just assume they don't "really" need it.
This is what bothers me. I agree with the poster who said
Is she the tip of a very large ice berg? Not likely.
I don't think this article will set off a huge influx of this type of behavior. I also don't think most people who read the article (present company excluded) understand the GAC/wheelchair/ECV thing. And while we all know that it's not as simple as just having a member of your group in a wheelchair & immediately going to the front of the line, the average non-WDW-fanatic does not. And this article does as much damage - if not more - than the people who abuse the system.

On a previous trip, my husband was recovering from a devastating accident and had recently learned to walk again. He could walk, but not long distances without severe pain. He rented and ECV, and despite the fact that he only used it to get from ride to ride, and never once attempted to skip a line (he was able to stand long enough to wait, fortunately, and felt that there are others who needed that option more than he), we still got MANY nasty looks and some downright rude comments from people, assuming that he was lazy or trying to get away with something.

And THAT attitude is what I think is the most unfortunate outcome of this article - not that more people will try to cheat, but that more people will feel or be harassed by those who have now been "alerted" to this issue.

BrerGnat
05-20-2013, 01:37 PM
And THAT attitude is what I think is the most unfortunate outcome of this article - not that more people will try to cheat, but that more people will feel or be harassed by those who have now been "alerted" to this issue.

Yes, this bothers me too. I hesitated to use a GAC for many years. We visited Disneyland with our very young boys from the time they were born, and in 5 years of going, we never got a GAC. We had learned what our Autistic son could and could not tolerate, and we often just skipped over things since we could always come back another time (we lived VERY close). I knew about the GAC, but I actually wanted to try to teach my son how to wait and be around people.

However, WDW was a new, unfamiliar place and my son had a very tough time dealing with it on our first trip. We relented and went to Guest Services the next day to get one. It made our trip SO much easier and less stressful. My son's anxiety was kept in check and he ended up having a great time.

But, along with using a GAC comes the rather nasty comments and assumptions from other guests. While I generally pride myself on being able to let this stuff roll off my back, I got SO SICK of the "must be nice" comment after about the hundredth time, and I spun around and snapped back to the guy who said it, "It must be nice to have kids that don't have Autism. Wanna trade?" I admit, it's not my proudest moment, but I had had enough. I needed a :beer: after that!

Terra
05-20-2013, 02:02 PM
Two comments in regards to the incident in the article. First, I don't think a lot of people are doing this. And, second, you really can't do anything about people like that. If someone goes to the trouble and expense to find a way to abuse the system, they will continue to make that effort. Certainly, if Disney can find a way to change something to keep it from being abused as much, that's great, but there are people who will always go all out to find a way around it. But I really think those kind of people are in the minority.

I have to say that I have never, in all our visits to WDW, noticed someone using a GAC card. I wouldn't even know they exist if it weren't for Intercot. Now, granted, I'm not the most observant person in the world, but if it were that prevalent, I would think even I would notice it.

A few other thoughts, it's great if someone is comfortable openly talking about a disability. Not everyone is and no one wants to feel uncomfortable or embarrassed on vacation, especially if they're having to ask for help. This would likely deter people genuinely needing it, not abusers. I think it's great that Disney offers this service at no charge. Again, I think charging for it would likely take the option away from people who genuinely need it, more than it would take away from abusers. Where are all these people who need GACs when they're not in WDW? How would you know them? There is no where else where you can spot them showing a GAC card.

I'm not at all denying there are abusers. I just think they're more of a minority than some people perceive. Definitely, I'm all for WDW trying to make sure abusers don't succeed, but I hope they don't end up excluding people who really do need it.

Wonderful post and I agree 100%. I have to admit [get your tomatoes ready ;)] that *sometimes* people have a tendency to overreact a little more on here than in the general populace.

As far as paying. No way. How very discriminitary in my opinion of my child who already has disabilities. Charging for a GAC to me is like saying "too bad so sad you have special needs."

And I would think because of HIPPA laws Disney would not be allowed to retain any such medical information [even if given voluntarily by the person needing the GAC].

Sure abuse happens, but I would like to believe that the majority of people are using it properly.

biodtl
05-21-2013, 09:24 AM
But, along with using a GAC comes the rather nasty comments and assumptions from other guests. While I generally pride myself on being able to let this stuff roll off my back, I got SO SICK of the "must be nice" comment after about the hundredth time, and I spun around and snapped back to the guy who said it, "It must be nice to have kids that don't have Autism. Wanna trade?" I admit, it's not my proudest moment, but I had had enough.
I don't blame you for reacting like that - enough is enough sometimes. And honestly, I don't think it was such a bad thing to say. It's terrible when people act like that. At least my husband is an adult and can refuse to allow himself to be upset by the way people act, but to make those comments in front of a child is inexcusable!

I will admit that before I had experience of living with a person with a handicap, I was more skeptical of others (although I kept the skepticism to myself, rather than spouting off like an idiot). But after I experienced it firsthand, it opened my eyes. Now, I just accept that there MAY be people who take advantage of the system (whether at WDW or in a handicapped parking spot at the local mall), but I would prefer to believe a person who is cheating than to doubt a person who is not.

Being kind is FAR more important than being right.

EJS-Houston
05-23-2013, 02:09 PM
I just listened to a podcast of NPR's popular (national audience in the millions) of "Wait, Wait Don't Tell Me" from this past Saturday, and in the Stump the Listener segment,each of the three panelists tells the contestant a completely outrageously preposterous story from the news, only one of which is real. The other two are made up and the contestant has to guess which one is real. This past Saturday, I knew instantly which was the real story, because it was the "Manhattan socialites hire disabled people to pose as family members to jump the lines at Disney World" story. The contestant got it wrong, undoubtedly deciding the actual story seemed too preposterous and too unthinkable to be real. Everybody was suitably appalled.

EJS-Houston
05-23-2013, 02:11 PM
"Being kind is FAR more important than being right. "

Well said, biodtl!!!