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spinnerf
01-23-2012, 08:25 PM
I hope this comes out the right way. When getting my baby's diaper bag rummaged through by a security guard during our last Disney visit, the guard then looked into my 8 year olds change purse hanging from her neck, he never even made mention of the cargo pants I was wearing, 8 pockets, all obviously stuffed with various essentials. So if your wearing it as clothes it doesnt get searched? I feel if they are going to do security checks they really should be "all in" or whats the point? Lets face it the lines to have your bags checked is a hassle, one we all accept in todays post 9/11 environment. Im all for it, but they should really be more thorough or stop. Honestly in the many times I have been through Disney security I have never seen them confiscate or question one thing, Whats your opinion?

Melanie
01-23-2012, 08:40 PM
It's a joke, that's what I think.

I'm at the park often, and have seen all kinds of varying degrees of inspection. I'm not aware of why it's done, and hopefully someone will be along soon to explain, but it appeasing someone. Just not sure who.

floridamom
01-23-2012, 09:31 PM
I agree that it is inconsistent at best. There have been some times where they barely glanced through my bag and have overlooked stroller baskets and pouches, and others when they ask me to open every internal zipper in my (not-so-large, cross body) purse. But I have never been asked to unload clothing pockets and if my husband isn't carrying a backpack he walks through the "no bags" entrance with cargo shorts full.

I file this under the same category as the "fingerprint scanners" at the turnstiles. Even if it doesn't read or comes up as an error (which happens frequently to those of us with the paper APs), I have never once been asked to provide ID...

SandmanGStefani24
01-23-2012, 10:04 PM
working in law enforcement I have a huge amount of respect for any and all levels of security in WDW. However I do notice some inconsistent practice. I am of course, trustworthy and no threat, but in normal clothes, I look like almost any young man and if anything maybe someone you might not trust based strictly on appearances. Yet, since I have no bags I zip right past security and into the parks no questions asked. The bag search might need to be looked at a little and am I out of line for suggesting a metal detector could be used somewhere? (of course I don't want to see it come to this, but only searching bags and nothing else leaves many holes.) I feel safer at WDW than anywhere else in the world, and know that there are plenty of eyes on me and everyone else to keep us safe. Still, maybe the bag search idea needs to be revamped.

White Rose
01-23-2012, 10:32 PM
I definitely noticed this inconsistency while I was on vacation about two weeks ago. My sister, mom and I would all have to go through with the security bag check point and my dad would just go straight through the "No bag" line. The killer for me, was, though, there were a few times we could easily tell when one guard was more thorough than the others (based on how fast that line was moving and what we could see the guard doing). When we realized that some were overly thorough, we'd simply jump into another line (that had an opening, of course. No butting!) where we noticed the guard was not nearly as thorough. This really needs to be investigated. :confused:

micky95
01-24-2012, 07:33 AM
i believe its more to protect themselves.they can say we check bags,but if someone was serious, a bag check isnt going to catch them.ive been asked once to empty my pockets.i walked thru the no bag line and a guard there asked me to empty my pocket.i pulled out some napkins and my cell phone. he said ok .i meet back up with my wife and told her what had happened .we were both puzzled.i looked down at my pocket and realized that the antenna base outlined could be mistaken for the barrel of a gun.it was no problem for the 5 seconds it took.i agree it is very inconsistent when it comes to how they do it.

BrerGnat
01-24-2012, 09:00 AM
It's a smoke screen. Plain and simple. What they are looking for more, to be honest, is glass bottles. That is the ONLY thing that I have ever had confiscated (this was at Disneyland resort, and I forgot I had it in the bag...was a small bottle of coke). This can pose a serious safety hazard if it breaks inside the parks.

Truthfully, though, it's just a way to slow people down as they enter the park, and to get them all funneled in one place. This is done so that the security guards and the plain clothes security can scan the crowd and note people's mannerisms. People who are intent on doing something horrible have a certain way about them, and it's detectable by people who are trained to notice it. This is what they are looking for.

My DH is military and has spent a LOT of time in hostile combat zones. He understands the point of these "bag checks" and says that they don't really care at all what is in the bags, for the most part. Its just an opportunity to "slow down and observe the crowd." He's had a lot of practice doing this sort of thing. He still does it when we're in a crowded place, and crowded unruly situations make him very nervous.

Jim&AngieMarriner
01-24-2012, 09:06 AM
As an Military Intelligence professional in the Army I think I have an idea whats going on. I could be wrong but I think this is whats happening.
Depending on the length of the line they will either speed you through or take an extra few seconds going through your bags and here is why. There are several Security CMs in "civilian" attire who are watching the line. People who are bringing in contraband or dangerous items often give themselves away with thier body language. They can adjust how fast the line goes through the checkpoint in order to give those CMs the chance they need to view the crowd for guests acting suspicious or acting out of place. This could be the reason behind the percieved inconsistancy. This is a tactic I have employed many many times controlling the lines of locals attempting to gain access to our camp while deployed to the middle east. I would think that at the Parks,in most cases, the people who are acting suspicious are discreetly removed from line or some such and checked much more closely, possibly with metal detectors and chemical sniffers. I am sure that 99.99% of the guests would never dream of doing anything other than enjoying the park as intended. Its that 0.01% that could ruin it for everyone else that they are looking for.
Granted I dont know for SURE that this is what they are doing, but to me it seems likely. It probably also legally covers them like Mickey95 said.
All in all, as thorough as Disney is in alomst everything, I feel confident that even if it isnt exactly the senerio I mention, that this percieved inconsistancy in searching of bags actually has been designed to serve a greater purpose that helps keep guests safer.

These are my opinions, your mileage may vary.

Jim&AngieMarriner
01-24-2012, 09:10 AM
Guess I type slow or I would have seen that BrerGnat basically already said the same thing.

spinnerf
01-24-2012, 09:48 AM
I appreciate the military backgorund spin given to my question. I had never considered this perspective and it makes sense. I doubt Disney is that tactically advanced, but it will make me happier to think that on my next run through the bag check line. Very good point!

BrerGnat
01-24-2012, 09:54 AM
I appreciate the military backgorund spin given to my question. I had never considered this perspective and it makes sense. I doubt Disney is that tactically advanced, but it will make me happier to think that on my next run through the bag check line. Very good point!

Disney is more tactically advanced than any other theme park in America. This is why they don't need metal detectors.

They hire lots of former military security specialists and work very closely with the Dept. of Homeland Security. Trust me, I know this personally.

SBETigg
01-24-2012, 10:16 AM
They can do a bag check but they can't search your clothes without causing lots of problems. Look at the issues with lawsuits concerning alleged groping by characters. If they wanted to pat down guests coming in without bags, just imagine the extra lawsuit potential, feelings of violation, and time it would take. I appreciate that they at least do the bag check, even if it seems to be just an extra hassle. But I also try to enter without bags, just to save waiting in those lines. And if my pockets did look overstuffed, I wouldn't mind being stopped and asked to empty them. But some people would, I am sure.

Jim&AngieMarriner
01-24-2012, 10:25 AM
Disney is more tactically advanced than any other theme park in America. This is why they don't need metal detectors.

They hire lots of former military security specialists and work very closely with the Dept. of Homeland Security. Trust me, I know this personally.

This is one Soon to Be Former military Security Specilist (only 15 months left) who dreams EVERY DAY of doing security for Disney. My Co Workers are sick of me saying that I want to work for the parks when i retire. Crossing my fingers for the possition to be open when it comes time for me to put resumes in.

BrerGnat
01-24-2012, 10:39 AM
This is one Soon to Be Former military Security Specilist (only 15 months left) who dreams EVERY DAY of doing security for Disney. My Co Workers are sick of me saying that I want to work for the parks when i retire. Crossing my fingers for the possition to be open when it comes time for me to put resumes in.

Good luck! Hope it works out for you!

KAJUNKING
01-24-2012, 11:18 AM
Guess I type slow or I would have seen that BrerGnat basically already said the same thing.

both of your statements make perfect sense and i have seen the plain clothed security guards around the entrance and on my last visit watched one stop some people from hopping the chain to get into mk right when you get off the monorail and they walked them to some hidden location, im assuming for some type of search

Ian
01-24-2012, 11:22 AM
Truthfully, though, it's just a way to slow people down as they enter the park, and to get them all funneled in one place. This is done so that the security guards and the plain clothes security can scan the crowd and note people's mannerisms.This is what it's really all about. The searches are only a way to slow folks down so the behavioral specialists can monitor the crowd for any suspicious activity.

Disney's security is actually very advanced, but like any other good security organization most of what goes on you can't see ... wouldn't be very effective if you could!

spinnerf
01-24-2012, 11:54 AM
I have never noticed plain clothes security, then again I was never looking. If all ths is true it is very impressive. Why dont the airports use that type of screening? It just seemed that when I went through security at MCO and an agent literally dusted my baby's milk bottle for explosives (she was vey nice I might add) that this was TIGHT security, I didnt feel as thoroughly evaluated at Disney, maybe we are and we dont know it. I never thought of the "slow people down" factor. From my perspective with no military or no law enforcement background, I felt like we were glanced over at Disney and if this attitude was applied to everyone they could miss something. Hopefuly you all are right.

KAJUNKING
01-24-2012, 12:10 PM
I have never noticed plain clothes security.
if you spend any time by the entrance youll notice, theyll have the little curly earbud wire behind there ear, but they are pretty stealthy, they look like tourist and a lot of times they hang out as couples.

Scar
01-24-2012, 01:54 PM
Truthfully, though, it's just a way to slow people down as they enter the park, and to get them all funneled in one place.It sounds to me like it is really a way to do it twice. I mean the turnstiles certainly slow people down too... no?

Jim&AngieMarriner
01-24-2012, 02:17 PM
It sounds to me like it is really a way to do it twice. I mean the turnstiles certainly slow people down too... no?

There is nothing as comforting in the Security realm as redundency. I would not be surprised that the have a second team watching that area. I would also be surprised if the same set up isnt used for the monorail area. Realistically, any area outside the main gate, that people gather would make for a good place to look for possible problem behavior. I would also expect them to randomly rotate the time and location of these checks. If the checks are noticiable to the "bad guys" and if a pattern can be established to their checks, it can be deffeated or circumvented. So an element of randomness given another layer of security.

Can you tell I enjoy the field?

BrerGnat
01-24-2012, 04:54 PM
It sounds to me like it is really a way to do it twice. I mean the turnstiles certainly slow people down too... no?

There are literally security guards everywhere at WDW. Everywhere. Many are in uniform, many are not. The majority are supposed to be "invisible". The bag checks and the turnstiles are just the first place people are watched. The observations continue throughout the parks. As you know, it IS possible for a person to evade the first layer of security.

Main Street Jim
01-24-2012, 07:16 PM
Some of the MK Front Entrance Security guys hung out in the same break room we used when I was on the Steam Trains. You'd be surprised to hear some of the stuff that's been found and confiscated by these guys at Bag Check.

magicofdisney
01-25-2012, 08:54 AM
There is nothing as comforting in the Security realm as redundency. I would not be surprised that the have a second team watching that area. I would also be surprised if the same set up isnt used for the monorail area. Realistically, any area outside the main gate, that people gather would make for a good place to look for possible problem behavior. I would also expect them to randomly rotate the time and location of these checks. If the checks are noticiable to the "bad guys" and if a pattern can be established to their checks, it can be deffeated or circumvented. So an element of randomness given another layer of security.

Can you tell I enjoy the field?

This reminds me of a situation my husband encounters frequently.

He travels weekly for work. One airport in particular has horrible security measures in place. Unfortunately, we're talking about TSA here. Nonetheless, within just a few weeks of travel he knew exactly when a set group of agents were taking breaks simply because of traffic flow to the terminals. He sent a letter to a manager who quickly asked for a private meeting with him. She was disconcerted by how much he could surmise from simply traveling the same route weekly. It seems to me the TSA could take lessons from Disney.

PAYROLL PRINCESS
01-28-2012, 10:37 PM
I think a lot of the time they are also looking for glass bottles too.
I've had some security guards joke with me about the contraband I'm smuggling in (Pepsi) and how they'll meet me later to share it with me.
I don't mind taking the extra couple of minutes to go through security. But then again I also have my bag zippers open and ready for them to look through. I think a lot of people don't even pay attention to what's going on ahead of them. Otherwise they'd be prepared and get through quicker too. Even if it seems like they aren't doing a thorough job, I'd still rather have them do it.

Polynesian Dweller
01-29-2012, 12:31 AM
This is what it's really all about. The searches are only a way to slow folks down so the behavioral specialists can monitor the crowd for any suspicious activity.

Disney's security is actually very advanced, but like any other good security organization most of what goes on you can't see ... wouldn't be very effective if you could!

Agree, and this isn't an airport where they have few opportunities and limited time to identify a problem. At Disney they can have multiple layers and all the time you are in the park to identify you as a problem. It means they can and should use a different strategy than TSA.

disneymom2000
01-29-2012, 10:55 AM
Thank you Jim&AngieMarriner and BrerGnat. This thread could have gone a totally different way if not for your explanations. I appreciate security even if most people don't understand and can only think invasion of privacy or rights to privacy. In the world we live in today, privacy is pretty much a moot point and I don't mind as long as I get to spend time at Disney.

LudwigVonDrake
01-29-2012, 12:02 PM
I have never gone through security in the parks because I don't bring bags with me :shrug:

Daisy712
01-29-2012, 01:15 PM
A few years back when we were going into AK, I asked one of the security guys checking my purse why some of them hardly looked and others really searched. He said that by the time we were at the security check, we had already crossed two metal detectors that were in the ground. Whether this is true or not, I don't know.

TinkerbellT421
01-29-2012, 03:11 PM
A few experiences I was able to witness made me feel better....two were in the trip we just came home from yesterday. And honestly, before these I used to wonder how they searched things so quickly.

One thing on this trip I had a zip up bag inside our backup which contained some personal hygiene products. Throughout our entrances, it was asked to be opened once. And I said open it at your own risk and he laughed. But we usually have the bag unzipped pockets open before we even get to the guy so I don't know if that shows a level to them that we know and we are regulars?

Last year we were entering animal kingdom and a fellow and a woman would assume to be his wife, they were shady looking characters to begin with....but the guy was in a wheelchair and we were behind them waiting to go through the bag check, I had noticed something attached to his waist but he covered it with his jacket. All of a sudden the guard looked over behind us and I followed his gaze to see a man in a Disney shirt and jeans behind us giving the bag check guy hand signals. That's when the security check asked the man what he had attached to his hip. The guy played stupid, he kept taping his hips as if you were checking your pockets sort of look and said "I don't have anything" and not to mention we looked and he physically touched the thing on his hip and covered it up better. The security guy asked three times before the man behind us in the Mickey shirt and jeans walked in front of us and two more guys that we didnt even notice but had already gone " through bag check" on the isle next to us came over also in civilian clothes and asked the guy to hand over the knife and to leave the park....first of all I was completely caught of guard and just remember thinking wow, that's how they do it! And then secondly when they took Thea knife, it wasn't a small fold up pocket knife either, it was. Six inch blade, I was so s ares thinking why would you even come to animal kingdom with a knife??????!!!!!

On this trip we were walking around downtown Disney with a friend of ours that works for disney and we were talking because we had stopped where the entrance to pleasure island is and they had a really cute mime type show going on so we sat to watch. There was a girl mime in gold, it was more like they were statues who would move once and a while, well a man was harassing the girl. Well the cast members guarding her were dressed in civilian clothes and were in the audience watching, she made a particular move and they came out of the audience and asked him to leave her alone. Never even spotted them. So we asked our friend about that and she told us how there are cast members who's jobs are to walk around the parks, watch in stores, watch during parades, etc they are everywhere just people watching. Now that's the job I want!!!

It made me feel better to know that there are people there. And like others said, she confirmed that most are ex military, ex police officers, ex psychiatrist, all that have some form of training to look for specific ticks and nervousness you show. Pretty cool.

luvdiznee
01-29-2012, 03:32 PM
They all do it different. Some want to see everything, some look at whats on top in your bag. Just be sure if you are wearing a fanny pack, as I was a few years back, to take it off, as I was not told. Because you could almost get "touched uncomfortably".

BrerGnat
01-29-2012, 03:44 PM
On our recent trip, a guy in front of me had, essentially, a cooler bag full of "lunch" for his family. Mixed in the bag was a HUGE steak knife (I'm not sure what they needed that for). The guy seemed surprised when the security guard removed it and told him that he'd have to check it in with security, and they would give it back to him on his way out of the park. The guy basically just told the guards to throw it away, as he didn't want the hassle of checking it in, etc. He had apparently forgotten it was in there, or it was not supposed to be in there, or whatever. So, they do find stuff that shouldn't be brought into the park, sometimes.

MinnieMommie
01-29-2012, 04:30 PM
Th is a very thought provoking thread. Thanks to all for your comments and for sharing your expertise. My understanding has always been that Disney is expert at security measures and really that they need to be. In my estimation the bag checks are neither a hassle nor are they frivolous. I am always passed through the line very quickly and my bag is always wide open, unzipped and easily assessable for the guards to view. My sense has always been that if we are being asked to go through a bag check procedure there is a reason for it. Thanks for the insights into this process you have all shared.

lizzi6692
01-30-2012, 03:22 AM
Just like to point out that not only is the bag check to slow down the crowd for the plain clothes guards, but the security guards that are checking the bags are doing more than that. They don't just talk to you because they like to chat, they're doing it to see how you react. If you act nervous they're going to do a more thorough job of checking your bags(the first TSA agent that checks your boarding pass and ID/passport does the same thing).

mickeys_princess_mom
01-30-2012, 08:18 AM
I don't mind taking the extra couple of minutes to go through security. But then again I also have my bag zippers open and ready for them to look through. I think a lot of people don't even pay attention to what's going on ahead of them. Otherwise they'd be prepared and get through quicker too. Even if it seems like they aren't doing a thorough job, I'd still rather have them do it.

Exactly! :thumbsup:

MKFD43
01-31-2012, 11:25 AM
If you ever had to spend some time waiting at the maingate at the MK and are a little observant you can see the plain clothed security watching the security check point. They are hard to see at first but if you watch their manerisms you call tell who they are.I do think that would be a fun job to have, when i retire from the FD. I used to be a bouncer for a bar close to Wrigley Field and you learn to watch for certain behaviors, buldges and contact avoidances that indicate a potential problem individual.

MrPeetrie
01-31-2012, 07:01 PM
This is one Soon to Be Former military Security Specilist (only 15 months left) who dreams EVERY DAY of doing security for Disney. My Co Workers are sick of me saying that I want to work for the parks when i retire. Crossing my fingers for the possition to be open when it comes time for me to put resumes in.

Good luck with your pursuits. And until your 15 months are up, be safe.

Gator
01-31-2012, 07:14 PM
A friend of my wife's said her husband got into Disneyland with a gun in he bottom his backpack. He has permit to carry, but still...

And if they're checking backpacks and bags for the big items, ie bombs, why not hire a bomb-sniffing dog. Only one would be needed. It would smell anything suspicious with 50 feet.

BrerGnat
01-31-2012, 07:18 PM
A friend of my wife's said her husband got into Disneyland with a gun in he bottom his backpack. He has permit to carry, but still...

And if they're checking backpacks and bags for the big items, ie bombs, why not hire a bomb-sniffing dog. Only one would be needed. It would smell anything suspicious with 50 feet.

Security at Disneyland uses dogs. I've seen many over the years.

LoriSan
01-31-2012, 10:19 PM
And if they're checking backpacks and bags for the big items, ie bombs, why not hire a bomb-sniffing dog. Only one would be needed. It would smell anything suspicious with 50 feet.

A few weeks ago we were waiting for the boat in Epcot at the International Gateway. After the boat arrived and emptied out, a security guard with a dog went onto the boat, checked it out and left. I was pretty surprised, but I assumed that it was a detection animal. Pretty impressive.

11290
01-31-2012, 10:31 PM
For all that have the "dream" of working Security at WDW and me not wanting to "wet on your charcoal", it would pay to talk with some CM's before committing yourself to the work.

Security at WDW is not all bag checking or strolling the parks, commonly seen by some as the "glamorous and fun" work.

Security can also be found in a guard shack at the hotels, standing at the CM bus stop behind MK watching CM's getting on / off the bus, manning the vehicle check / raising and lower the gates at the Security point between the bus stop and the tunnel entrance, on and on.

There are a lot of locations that Security mans that IMHO (I worked security at a hospital shortly after I retired from the construction industry and before I became a CM at MK), would be really dull, boring and lackluster locations.

Just my opinion obviously, but depending on where you would get assigned, it can be really long, dull days, especially in the FL summer heat. It's just not all being around the theme parks, making nice with the guests. Lot of misconceptions about CM jobs show up on forums when you are on the "outside looking in" inside of the reverse.

As I said, just my $.02 but everyone should review just what their goals are before making committing to something.

Personally for me, I always thought my ultimate retirement job would be to pilot the monorail (told my kids that if I had an Altzheimers moment I couldn't get lost). After actually seeing all the restrictions, rules and general oversight that goes along with that location, I'm glad that I hired in to Main St. Operations. Besides, the monorail costumes aren't the best looking out there. LOL

Jim&AngieMarriner
01-31-2012, 11:33 PM
Guess I wasnt clear enough before and thats ok. I can see why 11290 would think I ment that my dream retirement job would be as a Security Guard. I also agree that the front line guards have it rough and it isnt a glamerous job at all.

That isnt what I ment although I really respect the folks that do it. With my degree and experiece, I would be applying, if it comes open, for a management type possition. Its kinda hard to explain, but basically the person who designs and oversees the physical and peronnel security for either the parks, the resorts or both. For example, designing a system to keep unwanted vehicles out of restricted areas using hydraulic bollards. And then going forward with the project through budgeting and bidding for the contract and overseeing that instilation was done to spec.

I have had my share of walking a post as a soldier and personally guarding facilities, equipment and personnel. Hopefully they rotate areas of responsibility so that they arnt bored out of thier skull. I can do that level of security, and have done it well, but it isnt the level of security that I enjoy doing. Once again, I am not throwing stones at guards or police or any other job that is the first line of security. It just isnt what I would want to do.

Of course this is all a dream at the moment, I still have 14-15 months left til I retire from the army. I havent seen the position I am talking about be open in florida in over a year although a similar postion is open with ABC in New York City. I dont think i could live in New York. WAY to much going on there for me.

SteveL
02-02-2012, 11:13 PM
A few years back when we were going into AK, I asked one of the security guys checking my purse why some of them hardly looked and others really searched. He said that by the time we were at the security check, we had already crossed two metal detectors that were in the ground. Whether this is true or not, I don't know.

If this were true I have to think that every stroller with a steel frame that rolls over them would trip metal detectors that are in the ground.