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View Full Version : Rides run faster during busy seasons???



rmsongs
09-05-2011, 09:37 PM
I was just watching some vacation videos and I couldn't help but notice that some rides (TTA & Jungle Cruise to name a couple) seemed to run a lot faster in June than they did in November. In the video, I mentioned it to one of my kids and suggested that perhaps the rides run faster when the parks are busier. Has anyone else noticed this? Is it true, or am I just nuts??? "Enquiring minds want to know!"

Capt_redshirt
09-05-2011, 10:47 PM
If thats the case could explain why the TTA is always breaking down :funny:

Hazmat
09-06-2011, 05:50 AM
They, can't run faster. But they can have more ride vehicles on, so the queue will move faster :)

K8screen
09-06-2011, 06:09 AM
Why cant they run faster? Not all rides of course, but I dont see why they couldnt turn the power up on TTA for example, or are they only made to do one speed? I know on horror nights at Universal they run the carousel slowly, so presumably alterations of speed are sometimes possible. Anyone well informed on ride technology? I have never thought about this before, but now I am really curious.

btharvey
09-06-2011, 07:35 AM
I felt that our last visit the speeds were a bit greater when we rode Splash Mountain, POTC, at least. SM was down for a couple hours at the start of the day, and I think the flow was higher. Not as 'languid.'

POTC, the flow seemed faster, too.

And Expedition Everest seemed to really slam us up the hills rather than just pull.

I'd like to get a CM to confirm whether they can up the ante when they need to (not putting slides or roller coaster dives any faster, perhaps, but getting them to the hill and up it faster).

Ian
09-06-2011, 08:25 AM
I will admit I don't know for sure, but I feel relatively confident in saying that for certain rides (Omnimover types, for example) they most definitely turn up the belt speed during busier times.

I don't think they can run coasters any "faster" necessarily, but they can add more cars and run them as close together as safety standards allow.

Rosanne
09-06-2011, 09:22 AM
Former cast member perspective:

I don't think they "turn up" TTA and other attractions. However- I used to work at Space Mountain and I can tell you the following for sure:
When it is running at a higher capacity (meaning, there is always a line, steady stream of full rockets, etc.) the dispatch rate does move up. For example, when the park is slower and in order to ensure that there are full trains going out, cast members have the ability to increase the amount of time in between rocket ships. When it's busier, the amount of time between rocket ships leaving dispatch decreases. Rocket ships leave more frequently.

This doesn't exactly refer to your question, but I thought it was an interesting tidbit to share with you!
:mickey:

Melanie
09-06-2011, 09:32 AM
I will admit I don't know for sure, but I feel relatively confident in saying that for certain rides (Omnimover types, for example) they most definitely turn up the belt speed during busier times.

In particular, I think of Haunted Mansion here and how I'm always trying to take in all the details in the Bride Room. I find that room fascinating. Anyway, sometimes it seems like we FLY through there and I can't make anything out, and sometimes I can get all the dates on the portraits and compare.

Interesting.

akaDisneyDreamer
09-06-2011, 09:35 AM
Mission Space sure seemed a shorter ride in August than it was when we rode it the year before in May. Seems like it had a more abrubt ending when we went in August. I don't know if it in fact was cut short due to crowds or if it was my imagination (or wanting more!) but my daughters also thought it seemed shorter. :confused:

BrerGnat
09-06-2011, 09:53 AM
They absolutely either speed up certain attractions, or REDUCE the number of rotations (on the carousel, dumbo, astro orbiter, teacups, and those types of rides) at the Disney parks according to time of year/crowds, weather, etc.

I have visited Disneyland often enough to have proof of this, as I eventually began timing rides to compare them when I first noticed this happening a few years ago.

For example, the Teacup ride at Disneyland can range anywhere from 30 sec-90 sec "ride time". The Carousel can do anywhere from 5-15 rotations. These are just some concrete examples from my own observations.

I have also noticed that Small World has variable "cruising speeds" and almost every ride can adjust capacity as needed.

So, it's definitely not all in your head. It is a real thing.

Mogie
09-06-2011, 09:55 AM
Disney successfully implements a manufacturing model called "1 Piece Flow". This is a "Lean" Principle. Lean is a business model that eliminates waste from a business. It goes hand in hand with Value Based Six Sigma.
That means in terms of a manufacturing line a piece to be manufactured does not enter the manufacturing line until a completed piece comes off.
So on a ride like Pirates of the Caribbean, a new boat is not packed with people and does not depart from the queue until one boat ends the ride and all the riders come off. What this does is makes each ride a "revolving door" so to speak, instead of a funnel. The revolving door is much more efficient and easier on park goers, because the line is constantly moving instead of jamming as many people as you can through a funnel.
Capacity for the ride is determined by the speed of the ride, number of riders per boat, and they adjust the length of the queue pathways accordingly.
Have you ever been on a ride and been given a red card at the front of the line and then you have to pass it to the castmember as you get on the ride? They are measuring the time you waited on line so that they can adjust the capacity of the ride. They can add or take a car away to adjust.
Now keep in mind they also take into account estimates of what the total park crowd will be, and how many Cast Members will be needed to run each ride and manage each queue. They may be able to estimate what park levels will be like, but even Disney gets caught by surprise sometimes, and wait times are affected. But Disney does a pretty good job at managing each queue wait time, and does a good job of informing the crowd how long the waits are.
Pretty cool huh?

Mousemates
09-06-2011, 10:14 AM
.....I eventually began timing rides to compare them when I first noticed this happening a few years ago.

For example, the Teacup ride at Disneyland can range anywhere from 30 sec-90 sec "ride time". The Carousel can do anywhere from 5-15 rotations. These are just some concrete examples from my own observations.

I have also noticed that Small World has variable "cruising speeds" and almost every ride can adjust capacity as needed.

Wow...timing "length of ride" variations...this points to a genuine passion for things Disney which is one of the reasons I enjoy Intercot so much. Passion is always more interesting than apathy.

darthmacho
09-06-2011, 10:28 AM
I can't prove it, but way back in 1999, we rode Pirates of the Caribbean very late at night and the crowd had thinned to the point where there was no one in the boats fore and aft, I swear our boat was moving more slowly than usual, giving us a great chance to observe details! In contrast, in 2003, when we rode Peter Pan during peak park hours, I would testify that they had put the ride on maximum overdrive. I was whipping my head around trying to catch a glimpse of anything before it was too late, and the ride seemed short.

:scratch:

BrerGnat
09-06-2011, 10:29 AM
Wow...timing "length of ride" variations...this points to a genuine passion for things Disney which is one of the reasons I enjoy Intercot so much. Passion is always more interesting than apathy.

Ha ha! It was mostly so I could make sure I wasn't going insane. :crazy: I used to go about once a week, and sometimes consecutive days in a row. My kids are a bit OCD about which rides they will go on, to the point where our park time went like this every time (these would always be the first five rides, in that order):
-Teacups
-Carousel
-Circus Train
-Dumbo
-Small World

Sometimes, that would be all we'd do, and so I got VERY intimately involved in the operation of these rides. For my own sanity, and to change things up a bit, I started keeping track of the length of the rides when I noticed that they were not fixed.

B.O.B
09-06-2011, 10:36 AM
Other than adjusting the number and departure times of vehicles I don't think they could speed up a ride. Mission Space on the other hand in my opinion has been shortened to make it a less intense experience.

Poohluv85
09-06-2011, 11:18 AM
I had wondered about this too. Me and my friend were watching Youtube videos of Storybookland at DL and noticed that on the first video you could really see details and the "tour Guide" was able to take her time and even throw some jokes in and on the second video we missed alot of details and the guide seemed very rushed...on the first the boat didnt seem as full as it was in the second. Very good question :))

Melanie
09-06-2011, 11:23 AM
Other than adjusting the number and departure times of vehicles I don't think they could speed up a ride. Mission Space on the other hand in my opinion has been shortened to make it a less intense experience.

I think it's the opposite. I'm fairly certain Mission:Space hasn't been shortened, just the spinning has been removed for less G's (aka less intense) in the Green version.

I do think it's possible to speed up the Omni mover and boat rides.

Ian
09-06-2011, 01:23 PM
I do think it's possible to speed up the Omni mover and boat rides.If you think about it duh ... we all know for a fact that they can adjust the speed of the rides.

Remember how Spaceship Earth or Haunted Mansion or Buzz Lightyear will slow down suddenly while you're riding? That's because they slow the ride mechanism down to let disabled riders board. I've witnessed it happening firsthand. They first slow the ride down to allow them additional time to board. If, for some reason, that isn't enough then they'll stop the ride altogether.

Don't know why I didn't think of it before, but I think it's safe to say that if they can slow the ride down they can speed it up and I don't see why they wouldn't want to do that to help with ride throughput during busier times.

Stu29573
09-06-2011, 04:30 PM
The last time I was on Peter Pan, I was amazed at how fast we were going. The ships were actually swinging out a little on the turns, which I don't remember before. Also, the ride seemed like it was about half the length as normal...

Ian
09-06-2011, 05:07 PM
The last time I was on Peter Pan, I was amazed at how fast we were going. The ships were actually swinging out a little on the turns, which I don't remember before. Also, the ride seemed like it was about half the length as normal...It's funny, but that's the ride I notice it the most on, as well. In fact, when I first read the OP the ride that immediately popped into my head was Peter Pan.

Main Street Jim
09-06-2011, 06:49 PM
I think it's safe to say that if they can slow the ride down they can speed it up.Well, the attraction speed *can* be slowed down to permit disabled guests to board/disembark, but it can't get "any faster" than its "max speed" (which is usually what they run at, even at slow times). Now, there may be fewer or more ride vehicles on the "track" due to number of guests in the park(s). The more vehicles, the quicker the load time, and the less the dispatch time. Good example, as was stated by Rosanne, is Space Mountain. As she said, when there's fewer guests in the park, there's not a need for as many ride vehicles. So the dispatch time for the rockets is longer. Once the flow picks up and the line gets longer, rockets are added, and the dispatch time turned down (variable from 29 seconds down to 13.5 seconds - former SM CM here, too ;)).

On the OmniMover type rides - Buzz, HM, etc. - the ride moves at a constant rate, except to load/unload wheelchair/disabled guests, when the CMs can slow it down or stop the attraction (I'm a former Buzz CM as well). Same with Spaceship Earth. The fastest those rides will go, *is* the "fastest" you will ever see those rides. TTA will not go "any faster", nor will it slow down - only when it gets back to the unload platform.

As a former Splash CM, the boats do not go "any faster", either. It may *seem* faster when there's not as many boats in the flume (no boats to stop in front of you to "slow you down"), but trust me - it all moves the same speed all the time. When there's not a full flume of logs (52 logs, I believe), the dispatch time is greater between logs, so logs have more time to float freely in the water. Same with small world and PotC.

Mousemates
09-06-2011, 08:55 PM
thanks for the good info Main Street Jim

Hazmat
09-07-2011, 07:00 AM
I agree with dumbo etc having sorter run times, (number of rotations) that makes sense. The only other ride I could see bieng possible to be run slightly faster is the great movie ride as the cast memeber has control of the speed of the ride vehicle. But even if they ran it at full speed all the way round it would make for a very poor ride experience. They do have red and green lights to follow to make sure the next show scene is clear before progressing. And the cars would have to stop at the pre determined points. I.E the ganster/cowboy scene and the witch.

wdwfansince75
09-07-2011, 09:42 AM
Boy, is it great to have Main Street Jim back! His knowledge always added to these threads. Before he added his knowledge to this thread, I found myself imagining every single attraction with a variable speed; I couldn't think of a single one that I had experienced at different speeds.

crltkcagle
09-07-2011, 10:17 AM
I think the y do! For example on our last trip we rode and recorded the Snow White ride during normal hours. Later that same evening during EMH when the park was pretty much empty we rode and recorded it again. We noticed while we were riding it that it was going much slower than it did when we rode it hours earlier. When we got home and watched the videos you can tell it was moving much faster on our first ride than it was during our last ride.

BrerGnat
09-07-2011, 12:17 PM
In addition, it's also worth noting that on the boat and flume rides, the number of riders (i.e. combined rider weight) affects the speed of the boat through the flume. The boats move slower when they're fully packed and faster when they aren't. So, you may notice some variability there as well. The actual speed of the water is not different, but the boats weight affects speed.

joonyer
09-07-2011, 01:40 PM
The length (time) of a theme park attraction ride is inversely proportional to the amount of time you spend waiting in the queue! So it makes sense that during crowded times, the rides get shorter.! :D:D:D

Giselle
09-07-2011, 02:45 PM
From personal experience, I'd say the speed of the rides do change depending on the crowd. I've been on PP and WP a few times and they were so fast you couldn't see anything. Some other times I've had a nice leisurely ride. It was so different, I can't believe it was my imagination.

Main Street Jim
09-07-2011, 09:57 PM
I'll say it again - The ride speed *can't* go any faster than what they already run at :) Yes, they *can* be slowed down, but can NOT be "sped up". There may be fewer ride vehicles on track, which keeps the "on-track" vehicles from packing into one another (Splash, PotC, small world, Pooh, Snow White, etc.), so it may *seem* "faster".

wdwfansince75
09-07-2011, 10:28 PM
In addition, it's also worth noting that on the boat and flume rides, the number of riders (i.e. combined rider weight) affects the speed of the boat through the flume. The boats move slower when they're fully packed and faster when they aren't. So, you may notice some variability there as well. The actual speed of the water is not different, but the boats weight affects speed.
OK, so my fluid dynamics and other Oceanography studies were decades ago....but so long as they are bouyant, the currents push them along at the same rate. It is true that additional load weight will increase displacement (the weight of the volume of water displaced), and therefore increase drag by increasing the wetted surface area...but that has no inpact on bouyant vessels being pushed along by the currents. If they are being pulled along by a chain drive, or other mechanism, the displacement has no effect on forward motion, and constant speed drives are just that...constant speed. So, no, as I understand fluid flow, the displacement of the boat does not effect speed. As for the flumes, the force of gravity is such that all objects fall at the same acceleration....16 ft per second per second...weight has nothing to do with the rate of fall.

K8screen
09-08-2011, 09:39 AM
I am sure Main Street Jim is right, but if, as he says, rides can only run slower, not faster, perhaps the "normal" speed is the fast one and they run it slower, as Jim tells us they can, at quiet times.
Also, there is no real advantage to Disney in increasing the speed of the rides. It will shorten lines, but its not like a carnival where you pay for each ride as you ride it. Once we have paid to get in the park the more we ride the less profit Disney makes. If we arent riding we could be shopping or dining! I am just glad they put on extra cars, boats etc when possible.

BrerGnat
09-08-2011, 09:43 AM
OK, so my fluid dynamics and other Oceanography studies were decades ago....but so long as they are bouyant, the currents push them along at the same rate. It is true that additional load weight will increase displacement (the weight of the volume of water displaced), and therefore increase drag by increasing the wetted surface area...but that has no inpact on bouyant vessels being pushed along by the currents. If they are being pulled along by a chain drive, or other mechanism, the displacement has no effect on forward motion, and constant speed drives are just that...constant speed. So, no, as I understand fluid flow, the displacement of the boat does not effect speed. As for the flumes, the force of gravity is such that all objects fall at the same acceleration....16 ft per second per second...weight has nothing to do with the rate of fall.

When a boat is in a narrow channel, with turns and such, and the boat is heavier, it knocks into the sides with more force, slows down, and takes longer to navigate the channel. This is very obvious when you are simply just watching the Disney boat rides. Empty boats carreen along the flume effortlessly. If they knock the side, they bounce around quickly and keep going. If a boat if fully loaded, it gets slowed down. This ended up being such a problem that Disneyland was forced to completely rip out and replace the flume at its Small World attraction, which was not deep enough to accommodate the "heaviness" of the boats, due largely in part to American's increased overall sizes since 1955. The boats would "bottom out" often, coming to a very slow grind around the flume, and often getting stuck around corners because they couldn't remain buoyant enough in the shallow channel.

Your assesment of fluid dynamics doesn't take into account obstacles along the navigation route. In open water, you are 100% correct. The Disney boat rides don't operate in open water. And, the ones that do follow a track.

Main Street Jim
09-09-2011, 09:02 PM
My kids are a bit OCD about which rides they will go on, to the point where our park time went like this every time (these would always be the first five rides, in that order):
-Teacups
-Carousel
-Circus Train
-Dumbo
-Small WorldOK, this one has me curious, since WDW's Magic Kingdom doesn't have a "Circus Train". :) Disneyland, however, does have Casey Junior. Is that what you were referring to? I'm just wondering...:confused:

Melanie
09-09-2011, 09:18 PM
OK, this one has me curious, since WDW's Magic Kingdom doesn't have a "Circus Train". :) Disneyland, however, does have Casey Junior. Is that what you were referring to? I'm just wondering...:confused:

Yes, Natalie was local to Disneyland for many years until just recently. Peek at her signature and you can see she's a moderator in our Disneyland forums.

Ian
09-10-2011, 08:59 AM
I'll say it again - The ride speed *can't* go any faster than what they already run at :) Yes, they *can* be slowed down, but can NOT be "sped up". There may be fewer ride vehicles on track, which keeps the "on-track" vehicles from packing into one another (Splash, PotC, small world, Pooh, Snow White, etc.), so it may *seem* "faster".I'm sorry, but this makes absolutely no sense. If you can slow something down it's a stone cold fact that you can also speed it up. If there's a "slower" there has to also be a "faster."

I'm not arguing, Jim, because honestly I don't know for certain, but I do know that you worked on Splash which isn't an Omnimover ride. And based on Natalie's objective analysis and my subjective observations of 100+ rides on attractions like Haunted Mansion and Peter Pan, I'm fairly certain that the Omnimover-type rides do move faster/slower depending on crowds.

And to the previous poster who said there's no upside for Disney in moving people through rides more quickly, yes there is. Long wait times are the bane of Disney's existance. They're responsible for more complaints than any other cause. They invented Fastpass to do away with it. If they can move more people through an attraction in a given time period it results in shorter lines and an uptick in guest satisfaction.

BrerGnat
09-10-2011, 09:27 AM
OK, this one has me curious, since WDW's Magic Kingdom doesn't have a "Circus Train". :) Disneyland, however, does have Casey Junior. Is that what you were referring to? I'm just wondering...:confused:

Yeah, Jim. I was referring to DL. I guess my point was, they definitely do it there. If they can do it there, they can do it at WDW.

And, specifically referring to the Circus train, they have altered the speed of this train over the past 10 years. For awhile, it was going very fast, almost mini roller coaster speed and it was quite thrilling for the little ones. Recently, they have decreased the operating speed considerably, and have added a full safety stop a bit before the final tunnel. I was told it was due to needing to comply with safety regulations with regards to color blindness! There is a red/green light that is supposed to signal the train to stop or go just before entering the final tunnel (if there is a train in the station, the light is red, otherwise it's green). Apparently, they hired a color blind castmember, and he could not distinguish between the lights, so now it's required that all operators come to a full stop for 30 seconds and visually look for a train at the station before proceeding.

I understand your point about not being able to go faster than "maximum speed", but I know for a fact that they are NOT always operating all rides at "maximum speed".

Ian
09-10-2011, 09:42 AM
I was told it was due to needing to comply with safety regulations with regards to color blindness! There is a red/green light that is supposed to signal the train to stop or go just before entering the final tunnel (if there is a train in the station, the light is red, otherwise it's green). Apparently, they hired a color blind castmember, and he could not distinguish between the lights ... This sounds sort of "urban legend-ish" to me. I mean, presumably the red light and the green light aren't the same bulb, right? So couldn't they just say, "Green is on the left and red is on the right. Act accordingly." to the guy?

BrerGnat
09-10-2011, 10:15 AM
This sounds sort of "urban legend-ish" to me. I mean, presumably the red light and the green light aren't the same bulb, right? So couldn't they just say, "Green is on the left and red is on the right. Act accordingly." to the guy?

No, the lights are stacked one on top of the other, and are very close together. If you have red/green colorblindness, you'd just see a light on, but you wouldn't be able to tell from a distance which one it was. Truly, it's just a badly designed light. It's up against a dark border (the rock tunnel) and down around 5 feet in height. They could have presumably just put in a new light, and maybe they are, but for the time being, they do a full stop for every ride.

wdwfansince75
09-10-2011, 10:29 AM
When a boat is in a narrow channel, with turns and such, and the boat is heavier, it knocks into the sides with more force, slows down, and takes longer to navigate the channel. This is very obvious when you are simply just watching the Disney boat rides. Empty boats carreen along the flume effortlessly. If they knock the side, they bounce around quickly and keep going. If a boat if fully loaded, it gets slowed down. This ended up being such a problem that Disneyland was forced to completely rip out and replace the flume at its Small World attraction, which was not deep enough to accommodate the "heaviness" of the boats, due largely in part to American's increased overall sizes since 1955. The boats would "bottom out" often, coming to a very slow grind around the flume, and often getting stuck around corners because they couldn't remain buoyant enough in the shallow channel.

Your assesment of fluid dynamics doesn't take into account obstacles along the navigation route. In open water, you are 100% correct. The Disney boat rides don't operate in open water. And, the ones that do follow a track.

Don't want to get too far off track...yes, you are right...I did not include the effects of channel flown nor did I consider the random effects of side or bottom bumping.....the initial issue was "control" of speed...even if speed were a factor of displacement, it would not be a "controlled" factor, which was the original issue....However, to our point..If I put heavier people in a boat, I would, in fact, make the boat settle further into the water...for example, if the waterline measurement of a retangular SW boat is approximately 8 ft by 16 ft, (actually, I think it is larger) it has a water surface area of 128ft...if I add 600 extra pounds to load, it sinks less than 1 inch. (Displacing one cubic ft of water requires adding 62.4 lbs).
I'm certain that the older rides, such as SM at DL were designed for an earlier time, and the probaple assumption that more of the riders would be children...but having bottom bumping evidences a poor design, rather than simply the harsh reality of a heavier population...surely the clearance should have been sufficient to allow additional weight without bumping being a problem. I suspect that the original designers did consider a weight range, but apparently did not provide additional clearance...
I see your point about the heavier boats striking the sides, particularly in turns, whereas more bouyant boats with less weight, would "float free" of the obstacle more quickly....but we are talking inches of freeboard, nothing like the problem, for instance, faced by larger vessels...and the more bouyant boats would be more prone to bobbing and changing heading to strike the sides...as shown by your example of the empty boats on POTC....the objects with less freeboard, (greater displacement), are more likely to stay with the channel flow...so, again, there would be changes of speed, as the boats strike the sides...but the lighter boats would stike more often, and the heavier boats would slow more on each strike...probably close to a wash...and to lower a log by an inch would require at least 200 lbs extra weight...appears to be random enough as to not effect the total ride time...since there is a randomness involved, it would have to be sampled to determine the actual results. And since we are talking "control", it could not be perdicted, log by log.

Parts of certain rides, including Splash, are controlled, at least the belt portions....but since that is only a small portion to the ride, it can be used to control the ride time only by slowing it down...if you make the belts lifting the boats faster, you will close the intervals of the boats past the lift...and have the boats jammed near the end of the ride...so while the CM's can slow the ride, to allow extra loading and unloading, except for a few logs/boats near the unloading point (or on the controlled portions of the ride) the total ride time for most guests (and queue wait times) would not be affected.