Disney magic is dimishing

[schultzy336]

We just got back from a wondeful trip to Walt Disney World.....but I have to say....for the first time in over 40+ trips to WDW, this was the first time I felt like Disney is looking for ways to charge more money for the magical experience. You know...like in the movie "The Santa Clause 3 - The Escape Clause" where Jack Frost started nickle & diming people to experience the Christmas Magic. That was how I felt when I was in WDW...I felt like, if I wanted to have that magical Disney experience, I was going to have to pay extra for it. For example, I remember as a kid till about 3 years ago, you could sit in the Tomorrowland Terrace to watch the fireworks. It was a great place to, especially when you have little ones, to sit & relax & let the kids unwind a while. Well....it seems the execs at Disney have discovered that it is a great place to view the fireworks...so great, that now, in order to sit in the Tomorrow Land Terrace, you have to pay extra (eg. Dessert Party) to enjoy that once free place to sit. So..it seems Disney is turning into a place where even premium sitting/resting areas are a place of additional cost to the customer. What's next....applying additional charges to the window seat in the monorail? Or maybe they will start charging for pictures with the characters. All I know is, if this keeps up, I will not be able to afford a Magical disney Experience....and that will be a very sad day.

[BluewaterBrad]

That's the only great place to watch the fireworks?

[DizneyRox]

Psst... :cool:

It's not starting with the Fireworks Party... That's not even the most recent development...

[darthmacho]

Or maybe they will start charging for pictures with the characters.
They do, in a roundabout way, via photopass. I got dozens of great character photos, and paid hundreds to get them. :mickey:

[RBrooksC]

Hmm, so let me get this straight. Disney finds a place where they can add to the fireworks experience by hosting a "Wishes Dessert Party." And this place happens to be the place where you used to be able to sit free? And now you are grumpy because they are charging to sit there?

I see no problem with that. And I don't find that nickle and diming. When you attend the dessert party, you are getting something added to your experience and, to be honest, what one gets in that costs money.

My question to those who get annoyed at is perceived as "nickle and diming" is, what are you paying for? If Disney just closed off the section and said, "hey, if you want to sit here, you have to pay," that is one thing. But they are offering a premium with the dessert party. One has to be eating at the Rose and Crown to be able to use the patio to see the Illuminations fireworks from there. Is that nickle and diming?

Also, if they need staffing for something, those employees are expected to work free?

Yes, some places will nickle and dime you when what they are charging doesn't cost them anything, like bag fees on many airlines now.

But many times, at Disney, there is a business reason for the charges. Whether it is salary, food, or just plain overhead, there are costs involved that need to be paid. So the choice is this, everybody pays those charges even if those things are not used or just the people who chose to experience them pay for it.

[schultzy336]

Heck yeah it's nickle & diming!! Little nuances like this is was what separated Disney from everyody else......This was an area always open.....now it is closed all day and only opened for those who paid for the premium fireworks seating. People are already paying a premium to stay in a deluxe resort for more convenience; they are already paying a premium to eat at a character meal; they are already paying a premium for MK, EPCOT, whatever views from their hotel rooms; already paying a premium for park hopper pass upgrade; already paying a premium for holiday celebration parties; already pay a premium to meet & greet characters (need fast pass now for certain characters. Let me ask you....when was the last time you saw a Disney character "just appear" out of nowhere in random locations in the park? It doesn't happen...at least not the last 4/5 times I have been there. Look.....inspite of all this, it is still my family's #1 destination. We still have a great vacation with great memories when we visit. My concern is the TREND I see where Disney APPEARS to want to be more like its competitors instead of separating itself from them. My concern is all the little things that made Disney...well...Disney.....are now premiums. And what happens when you pay extra for all those premiums....customers expect more...and when they do not get what THEY expect...what THEY perceive to be less than expected.....they complain and get ugly..and all of us who also paid for the premiums, get to be a part of their "premium" ugliness which, of course, diminishes me & my families "premium" magical disney experience. The experience I paid extra for because...well...it was a premium. Disney is an expensive vacation...I know that...I expect it because I want a high quality enjoyable vacation. And that is almost guaranteed at Disney. But there will come a time where Disney is gonna hit that threshhold where suddenly it just is not all that special, where it is no different than other theme park. I do not want to see that happen. Some of my bst memories as a kid and as a parent have been at WDW. I just want my kids to be able to say the same thing when they take their kids to WDW. My fear is...it will not happen.

[joonyer]

We just got back from a wondeful trip to Walt Disney World.....but I have to say....for the first time in over 40+ trips to WDW, this was the first time I felt like Disney is looking for ways to charge more money for the magical experience. . . . . . . . . All I know is, if this keeps up, I will not be able to afford a Magical disney Experience....and that will be a very sad day.

Here's another way of looking at it. There are already millions of people who have never been able to afford a "Magical Disney Experience". It's always been a "very sad day" for them. I dare say that fact hasn't made it any less Magical for those of us who are fortunate enough to be able experience WDW or DL even one time much less multiple times. Everything that costs anything is more expensive than it used to be. I'm just glad there's still enough people who can afford visiting WDW to keep the place in business, so my family can experience it once in a while.

[azcavalier]

Here's why I don't agree that Disney is "nickel and diming" us. To truly do that, they would have to now be charging for something that had previously been free. For example, airlines used to allow you to check bags for free. Now they don't. THAT'S nickle and diming. If Disney were to start charging for the ability to use the Fastpass system, or if they starting charging for monorail and bus rides on property, THAT would also qualify. But to close off a section that you used to sit in, so that they can generate revenue by providing a service that they didn't before....that's just Disney trying to make money by using previously unused resources.

Now, if they had simply starting trying to charge you for the right to sit and watch the fireworks, THAT would be nickling and diming you to death.

[BigRedDad]

If Disney can find a way to **** more money out of your wallet, they are going to do it. Nothing is "free" at WDW. Mickey Mouse is a bank account Hoover vacuum.

Simply put, Disney is probably the most expensive vacation that can be taken. If you can get buy on a 1-week vacation at under $1000 per person, you have done pretty well.

[brownie]

Simply put, Disney is probably the most expensive vacation that can be taken. If you can get buy on a 1-week vacation at under $1000 per person, you have done pretty well.

Not necessarily. John and the gang discussed this on a recent INTERCOT Insider Live and a week at the beach could be just as if not more expensive than going to Disney World. I believe it was Episode 17: Checks in the mail (http://intercot.com/interactive/insiderlive/2011/episode-17.asp).

[DizneyRox]

Here's why I don't agree that Disney is "nickel and diming" us. To truly do that, they would have to now be charging for something that had previously been free.
Park Hopping used to be free... No Expiration used to be free. Used to get a free photo at MNSSHP and MVMCP, etc, etc.

The list could go on... Disney is exploring every revenue stream they possibly can.. Again, I don't blame a business for making money, but it's how you go about it, and the tenacity that you do that makes the difference. Disney's attempts are no longer clouded by pixie dust anymore. It's very easy to see exactly what they are doing.

[BrerGnat]

Park Hopping used to be free... No Expiration used to be free. Used to get a free photo at MNSSHP and MVMCP, etc, etc.


Park hopping and no expiration were never free. The passes cost considerably more before they became "magic your way".

Back to the OP, that is no nickle and diming going on (yet) at WDW. When they start charging for something that used to be absolutely, 100% FREE, then you can make that claim. Everything they charge for is either a good or service.

Here's an idea: if you don't like Disney's business practices, stop giving them money! I actually applaud Disney's attempts to make more money by providing "premium" experiences. The Wishes Dessert party has been around for a couple years now. It is GROSSLY overpriced for what it is, yet it's booked solid practically every night. The old saying about fools parting with their money comes to mind. Also, character buffets. Come on...don't tell me that these aren't outright money grabs on Disney's part, yet they have been going on for DECADES now. On what planet is a breakfast buffet worth $30+ per person, without the presence of all you can drink mimosas? ;) I remember going to very fancy special occasion (like New Year's Day) buffets at high end hotels with my parents when we were kids. Those didn't even cost near the price of breakfast at Chef Mickey's, and these were elaborate buffets...

Disney has always been a "money grab". EVERY business in the entertainment industry operates under that principle. Find as many ways as possible to separate the customer from his money. Plain and simple. The thing is, you, the customer (or "guest" at WDW) still has the power to choose what to spend your money on. Disney simply opens the gates every morning and the guests do the rest. Obviously, it's working for them, and we should all be glad that there are enough "fools" parting with their money on superfluous things so that Disney parks can still be up and running.

I did a Fantasmic dessert party at Disneyland several years ago. It cost something like $120 for me and my DH. It was our anniversary, so a special occasion. I can wholeheartedly say, that was the biggest waste of $120 ever. I fell for it. I felt like an idiot at the end of that. I couldn't believe we had just paid so much money for mediocre (likely previously frozen) dessert and a view of the show obstructed by trees. Fool me once, shame on you.

I won't be fooled twice. I am smarter about what I spend my money on at Disney now.

[sixshot19]

What everyone forgets is this. Disney is a business and businesses are in business to make money. We have all made Disney into this dream that we all love, and I am happy to have a place like that. But to not have them try and make every buck they can is not happening.

I book my holiday at Disney and go to Disney knowing that it is not the cheapest trip for me and my family, but we all love it, so is it worth it YA.

Compare it to anything else and you will see every other business does the same thing, we sometimes forget it about Disney because of the love we have for the place.

And look on the bright side, a case of my favourite beer (not even the super fancy stuff)up here where it snows all the time (so they say) costs me $44 bucks. Everything has it's price and that price is always going up....:beer:

[azcavalier]

If Disney can find a way to **** more money out of your wallet, they are going to do it. Nothing is "free" at WDW. Mickey Mouse is a bank account Hoover vacuum.

Simply put, Disney is probably the most expensive vacation that can be taken. If you can get buy on a 1-week vacation at under $1000 per person, you have done pretty well.

I disagree with this. I think that anyone who spends that kind of money needs to be looking at how they are spending it. There are always deals, and choices about places to stay.

Our real life Disney Vacation this year:

3 adults, 1 child
8 day, 7 night MYW w/ Park Hoppers in early December
Moderate Resort, Standard View @ Coronado Springs
Free Regular DDP
Driving to and from the parks.

Total cost?

$3000, including gas and hotels on the way to and from Disney. Will we spend some money on souvenirs? Sure, but we have a Disney Rewards Visa, and will have earned over $400 Disney Dollars on it by that time, and that is the souvenir money.

And this summer our three kids went to Arizona/Utah for three weeks. We came and joined them for one week. The plane tickets alone were almost $1500, plus a few hotels, eating out, souvenirs, etc. The one week in Arizona/Vegas/Utah easily surpassed what we spend on a trip to Disney.

And, no, we didn't gamble.

[azcavalier]

Park hopping and no expiration were never free. The passes cost considerably more before they became "magic your way".

Back to the OP, that is no nickle and diming going on (yet) at WDW. When they start charging for something that used to be absolutely, 100% FREE, then you can make that claim. Everything they charge for is either a good or service.

Yeah, I don't ever remember Park Hopping being free.

There is a difference between not liking Disney's rate increases or adding services and Disney charging for what used to be free services. Kicking you out of your fireworks spot to use it as a Dessert/Fireworks Party is not nickle and diming you to death. Putting in pay toilets would be.

[DizneyRox]

Park hopping and no expiration were never free. The passes cost considerably more before they became "magic your way".

Incorrect... The day Disney went to MYW tickets (Jan 2, 2005), ALL comparable tickets cost more than they did the previous day. Before MYW, park tickets included park hopping and never expired (I still have a few). Comparing apples to apples, MYW was a price increase, a cleverly designed price increase, but an increase none the less.

2004 5 Day Park Hopper (didn't expire) = $249 ($230 advance purchase)
2005 (MYW) 5 Day Park Hopper w/ No Expiration = $263

[joonyer]

So what you're really saying is, the Magic is diminished for you because it costs more than it used to. That is true of almost everything worth paying for that I know of. By that reasoning, nothing is as good as it used to be.

I remember a lesson my grandfather taught me. He was born in 1893, in a family that was dirt poor, but lived to be 101 years old. (died in 1994). When he was born, there were no cars, planes, telephones, computers television, not even radio or even electricity in houses, not to mention running water or indoor plumbing. He lived through the 100 year period where the world was changed more by modern technology more than any previous century.

He always told me that when people talked about the "good ol' days" that they were mostly full of B.S. They remembered the good times, but conveniently forgot to talk about most of their lives when life was hard and difficult, you know, little things like no shoes in the winter or not enough food to feed the whole family. Funny how we all have convenient memories.

The lesson was: that our standard of living is better than it ever was, no matter what decade. Remember the good times in the past, but don't take for granted how good we got it now. In 20 years, right now will be the "good ol' days." , so we should quit our "belly achin". Most everything is better than it used to be, even though it does cost more $$. We make more $$ than ever before too.

There could be no Disney World at all because nobody could afford it. So I'm just glad it's still there, even though we can't afford to go as often as we'd like. It's still a magical place to me. Adjusted for inflation, I bet it's not much more expensive than it was 20 years ago.

[KylesMom]

It sounds like you still had a good time, which is great news. I'm sad to hear that you feel the magic is diminishing, though.

Interestingly enough, we came away with the exact opposite thoughts. While we've never taken advantage of the fireworks view from your previous vantage point which is now a chargeable ADR, we found the free marshmallow roast & movie from our resort to be quite the value and really enhanced our stay, especially DS. I hope that, after this many visits under your belt, that you can still find the magic at Disney World! :mickey:

[BrerGnat]

Incorrect... The day Disney went to MYW tickets (Jan 2, 2005), ALL comparable tickets cost more than they did the previous day. Before MYW, park tickets included park hopping and never expired (I still have a few). Comparing apples to apples, MYW was a price increase, a cleverly designed price increase, but an increase none the less.

2004 5 Day Park Hopper (didn't expire) = $249 ($230 advance purchase)
2005 (MYW) 5 Day Park Hopper w/ No Expiration = $263

Ok, but how is that different from any of the recent (sometimes twice a year) price increases on park passes? My point stands that Park Hopping (and no expiration) were never free. When the two comparable passes only have a price difference of $13, it's pretty obvious. How much did a 5 day MYW NON Park Hopper/NON "no expiration" pass cost? I am guessing somewhere around $80 less, right? Then, yeah, they were charging for the park hopping/no expiration all along...

[wdwfansince75]

A Geology professor once told me that any diamond, however simple, has at least 8 sides...and so it is with stories about Disney...Just got back....there are changes I love, and changes I hate...and people I miss...My kids have grown up...I was ready for that...but their kids have grown up, and I love it, and hate it...I remember special people in special places, and they aren't there, neither the people, nor the places I found special...Was it because of the people? The Magic was shared...if part of it is missing, the Magic seems less. Every trip is filled with special memories. This time, my face was wet even before we got splashed, as I rode Splash with DGD'd #2 and #3. I would give Disney everything I have for more moments like that!

Oh, but I do miss our family rendezvous area, on the lowest level of the Tomorrowland Terrace...

[Dulcee]

I
Simply put, Disney is probably the most expensive vacation that can be taken. If you can get buy on a 1-week vacation at under $1000 per person, you have done pretty well.


We have taken many, many more expensive trips then WDW. While looking into our upcoming honeymoon the prices for all inclusive resorts in other parts of the US and abroad were WAY above what we'd pay for an equal length trip w/ food at WDW.

These days the only thing getting any cheaper is real estate....might as well get use to it.

[cuteduck223]

Let me ask you....when was the last time you saw a Disney character "just appear" out of nowhere in random locations in the park? It doesn't happen...at least not the last 4/5 times I have been there.

We were there in February, and a cast member pulled us to the side, we went to a secret :secret: meet and greet with Pooh and Piglet--no photopass CM, just the character handler and characters! We had unlimited time (which was hard for DD to grasp, she was used to hug, smile and go) but once she realized she could just "play" with pooh and piglet she had a blast! That didn't cost us anything, and was one of the highlights of the trip. The magic is still there. (special thanks to the CM who took the time to do that!)

Characters cant roam freely anymore because there would be a lot more pushing and shoving than there was in the past. Crabby, pushy people at the happiest place on earth may be the cause for less magic. :(

[Christine]

Characters cant roam freely anymore because there would be a lot more pushing and shoving than there was in the past. Crabby, pushy people at the happiest place on earth may be the cause for less magic. :(



That is 100% right! Guests are the only ones to blame, not Disney, as to why characters don't just roam around. Heck it's a mob scene when they're trying to go backstage! Crazy.

[buzznwoodysmom]

Heck yeah it's nickle & diming!! Little nuances like this is was what separated Disney from everyody else......This was an area always open.....now it is closed all day and only opened for those who paid for the premium fireworks seating.

This is how I look at it. Disney decided to offer a dessert party with fireworks viewing, and are charging a price for it. I don't see anything wrong with a business deciding to offer a service to their guests, and to make money, that's what businesses do...look for ways to make more money. They had to pick a place. It just so happens its "your" spot. If it were any other location in the park it would be someone else's spot. Can't please everyone all the time.

And besides viewing Wishes from directly in front of the castle, right at the end of Main Street gives you a much better view. We haven't done the dessert party because we don't want to watch Wishes from any other location but "front and center" of the castle.

[azcavalier]

We were there in February, and a cast member pulled us to the side, we went to a secret :secret: meet and greet with Pooh and Piglet--no photopass CM, just the character handler and characters! We had unlimited time (which was hard for DD to grasp, she was used to hug, smile and go) but once she realized she could just "play" with pooh and piglet she had a blast! That didn't cost us anything, and was one of the highlights of the trip. The magic is still there. (special thanks to the CM who took the time to do that!)

Characters cant roam freely anymore because there would be a lot more pushing and shoving than there was in the past. Crabby, pushy people at the happiest place on earth may be the cause for less magic. :(

On our last trip, I was waiting in the gift shop/arcade at the exit to Space Mountain for our party to come off, and Stitch walked in! He happens to be my favorite. Then he went over to Guitar Hero, and I kind of followed him (my DS 14 was at Guitar Hero already, but had never played it before). The CM from the gift shop came over, opened up Guitar Hero, and started a free game. Then a CM took me by the arm, and while leading me over, explained that Stitch wanted to play! So, I got to play Guitar Hero against Stitch with a crowd of onlookers cheering. It was awesome. Of course, I won...how hard would it be to play ANY video game in one of those suits? After it was over, Stitch bowed to me multiple times, gave me a high five, and went on his way.

[HackLaSalle]

Of course, I won...how hard would it be to play ANY video game in one of those suits? After it was over, Stitch bowed to me multiple times, gave me a high five, and went on his way.

Suits? :confused:

[Tink#64]

Suits? :confused:

Costume! :stitch2:

[joonyer]

Costume! :stitch2:

Costume?? :huh: What kind of costume was Stitch wearing? Was it Halloween? :laughing::funny::silly:

[Aurora]

We had a similar experience to the OP years ago during the Disney Christmas parade in Chicago. It was the second year of the parade, and our big family, for a very reasonable fee, rented a small meeting room in the Omni Hotel on the second floor so we could watch the parade from there.

The next year, the room was closed off and the hotel began hosting a parade party there and charged admission for people wanting to watch the parade.

We were a little sad that the hotel realized what they could be doing with the space and that we could never do that again, but we also knew what we had was too good to last.

So Schultzy, be sad, and treasure those "secret" places you find while you can.

[Aurora]

What everyone forgets is this. Disney is a business and businesses are in business to make money. We have all made Disney into this dream that we all love, and I am happy to have a place like that. But to not have them try and make every buck they can is not happening.


Especially on these boards, :) no one "forgets" that Disney is a business. What many people are objecting to these days are their business practices, and their feeling that Disney is "forgetting" that their main goal at one point was a happy customer (guest). There is such a thing as good will between the business and the customer. When that good will gets expended, the customer first becomes disenchanted, then goes elsewhere.

What customers are complaining about these days is that Disney often seems to have forgotten good will in favor of generating profits, and that it's out in the open instead of behind the curtain.

For example, Natalie (BrerGnat) above shouldn't have felt like an idiot after her dessert party -- she should have felt like she received something extraordinary and would pay for it again. Instead, she felt duped and ripped off. For a business that prides itself on "guest service," that should be unacceptable. But many fear the company attitude is that it's perfectly OK.

[DizneyRox]

^^ Thank you...

[B.O.B]

I don't make big bucks but I still think that Disney World offers a lot of 'magic' for the dollar! It's quite possible that some of us have been going to this wonderful place for so long that we forget the things that make it seem magical. When I go to other places I remember what I would have been able to do in a similar situation had I been at a Disney park rather than a Cedar Fair,Universal, etc. park. Not that those places are terrible but there IS a difference. When I was young(during the 70's) I got to go to WDW and stay at the Contemporary for one night, it was a whopping 75$(yikes) a night! I remember the park closed at 6:30 and Daddy was watching the Olympics. My brother and I were on the balcony and couldn't believe what we were seeing coming towards us on Bay Lake(the water pageant).If you actually got a picture with Mickey(or any favorite character) and you in the same frame it was rare. That's not the case now and it costs money to make it happen.

[princessgirls]

OK...I have to just chime in with this...

I truly think that Disney does things right, and you can find a way to go on any budget with staying on property.

Those with no budget, can afford all the extra services. I KNOW people who can do this. I might add that most of these people are like Natalie. They don't want to get ripped off. Who wants to spend a lot of money for a dessert party and feel like you got robbed?

We are a Middle class family. I do things middle of the road, and like to get a good bang for my buck, as do most people now a days. Disney staffs a lot of people in the parks, other parks do not. SeaWorld had you loading yourself on rides. Very little staff working on them.
Went to Six Flags on Friday. With my husband's corporate discount it cost us $30 each to get in the park. Family of 4 = $120 Not terrible...UNTIL you added on the extra "Flash pass" that allows you to actually get on rides instead of waiting the 90+ minutes that were for most of the rides. We went with another family and just got that option for the kids, and it was $53 bucks extra a kid. That added $106 to the day, and I DIDN'T WANT TO DO IT:thedolls:, BUT time is money and my kids got on all of the rides they wanted about 4X each on Friday. Disney includes the fastpass in the cost of admission and there is an equal playing field for all!
I don't buy into all the hype all the time, you have to pick and choose. Disney is no different than these other companies, however, I think they are way better at Theme parks in every aspect, and therefore will try to charge extra for things along the way.
Julie:mickey:

[Disney Hungarian]

Oh my!
I have to jump in now and add my 2 cents worth.

I am nearing on 40 years of Disney. I have some of the best and fondest memories of my life come from Disney. And I just have to say that the World lost someone very special when Walt Disney passed away. He was a pioneer at making magic and money. Now it would seem WDW is pioneering in just money. Well, I agree and disagree with this.

I can spend my money anywhere. I choose to spend it at WDW. Where else can I have total entertainment for at least 10 hours a day (based on the winter hours of MK 9am to 7pm) at an affordable $30 +/- a day (10 day passes.) I have my beefs with Disney (reservations for handi-capable) but, all in all it works out to be a good value. Sure, I would like the old Main St. back with all the specialty shops and for Epcot to still be EPCOT (you old timers will know what I mean by that.) But, it still is what it is. It is an amazing place. I have travelled both stateside and Internationally. It is a good bang for the buck still to this day. Was it better a few years ago? In my opinion; yes. Is it a better value than Six Flags or Universal? In my opinion; yes. Crunch the numbers. If Disney did not find ways to make the parks profitable then we would have no WDW to go to.

That being said; you can educate yourself to what is and what is not a value by searching the threads here at INTERCOT. Or just start a new post and most will overlook that it is the same question that has been asked so many times before and take the time to answer it again.

There is always 2 sides to every coin. So it is so cool that we live in this time where we can gather information so freely and make decisions based on our own needs/wants with as much information as possible. If the character breakfasts pricing upsets enough people; then Disney will get the message soon enough. As it is; people are still willing to pay for it as it is and the restaurants are still booked solid (Le Cellier with its 2 credit dinner for example.)

I guess what I am trying to say is; I still find enough value in coming to WDW. There are still enough CM out there that do make it a special place for me. There are still enough Wishes viewing places that have not been made private/for fee places. There is still the smile that I get on my face as the feeling comes over me as I step onto Main Street after all of these years. It is still my "Happy Place." It is a place that I can tell my friends that I am going to be "off the grid" and they understand. Until that changes. I will continue to come to WDW and I will still leave with memories.:mickey: