something really grinding my gears

[dolphinsfan203]

i am at the world right now posting on my iphone... we are stayimg at pop cent.. getting the buses latly is not the problem but people who use wheel chairs to get around are the problem. i fully understand that people need them and i am 100 percent ok with this. i do not mind giving prioroty seating to them. however something which blew my mind was a lady which was in a wheel chair waiting to get on (it was dark) the bus driver failed to see her and began to load the bus full of "normal" walking people.. the wheel chair lady does not wheel up to the driver proceeds to walk up WALK up and conplain. i am ok with entitlement of the seats but for the love of me this lady walked to te front caused a big stink. that was night 1.. night 2 was even more mind boggling.... we were at hs coming out and the first bus was not a disney bus with no wheel chair lift. it hadd luggage storage like a tour bus... not a big deal since a disney bus pulled right up behind it. wheel chair admenities like all disney buses.. she proceed to call the bus driver over ream him out and make him lift the scooter into the luggage area. i was like what the??? i feel disney needs to do something about the entitlement ad regulations on how they handle this because people like this ruim it for people with actuall needs for it. sorry for the long rant but it drives me goofy pun intended.. any others have any experieneces like this??

and as a side note im 100 percent not bashing or hating on tbe handicap in anyway.

[Itchy]

I think that you ran into the exceptions to the rule when it comes to people using ECV's.

I have never seen anything like that in all my trips to WDW.

My last trip the first of this month I rented an ECV from APPLE SCOOTER for my lady friend ( the greatest service I found ). When we or others waited to use the lift service there were no issues at all. We did not want to take to much advantage of the situation so my lady friend stayed on the scooter on the bus and I stood by her. That way we could still allow as many seat for the others who were politely waiting.

Dont let the actions of a few set the bench mark for the rest. I dont think Disney will change policy because of a few.

Enjoy the vacation...Be Goofy at the happiest place in the world. :mickey:

[Polynesian Dweller]

Hope this thread gets out of hand. But, much of this has been covered before.

First, the ADA is very specific and governs everything Disney and others do (Canada is very similar by the way). In short, services must be provided to people needing the assistance and the business cannot ask about the disability or question it. And that's to preserve dignity.

Second, there are all kinds of needs for ECVs and wheelchairs. The ability to walk means nothing. They may be able to walk for only short periods.

So, all the rest of us can and should do is accept that the law is what it is, we can't know what the need is just by looking, and live with it and the delays it brings. And yes, some people will cheat but in the balance it helps more people have a better life and experience for those who actually need the help.

[darthmacho]

From my experience on last year's trip, wheel chair loading caused significant delays and back-ups upon park closings, despite WDW's effort to accommodate.

While I commend their intentions, I blame Disney for this, not the people in need of wheelchairs, though what you witnessed is probably different. It seems like in your case, and individual put herself and her needs ahead of everyone, and her reaction made it seem that her need for the wheelchair was suspect. She may truly have needed it, but it's not certain after her reaction.

WDW should re-evaluate the way it handles these situations. They are good, but they are far from great, or efficient, in this category.

[dolphinsfan203]

by no means am i down grading or putting dpwn these people who "need" the chair. its just that this lady was out of control. i have been to disney multiple times and never have i saw a driver have to lift a scooter for a lady who was causing a fuss. not only did she inconvience the driver everyone else. i am 100 percebt ok with the laws and regualtions but somwthing needs to be done about this. it was to the point of thos lady wanted special treatment and she was the only one that mattered.

[UCJen]

So you ran into this woman two nights in a row? Wow.

She sounds obnoxious. Hopefully that is all you will see of her this week.

Don't let it get you down, you're at WDW! Relax. Enjoy.

[Itchy]

I dont think you can regulate selfishness. It happens all the time and not all of them are disabled. I have been at WDW when they have finished Cheerleader competition. I have found that some, not all were acting like spoiled brats expecting to be treated differently.

As has been said " you can't fix stupid ".

[spoiledraf]

I'll be visiting the world in August with my niece for her 21st birthday. She's been in a wheel chair all her life and trust me when I say, be thankful all you have to do is wait a little longer for a bus rather than spend your life in a chair. Having said that, there are people who seem to take advantage of the system. It would be great if, should they be able to walk and board the bus normally, that they would do so. Mush like transfering from a wheel chair to a ride in the parks. Most chairs fold up as easily as a stroller. I wonder how well she gets around when it comes time to transfer to all the attractions (often after getting to by-pass some of the lines). It is what it is and it takes all kinds. Life goes on.

[Pirate Granny]

I liked in disneyParis...a wheelchair person (my daughter) would come up to the start of the ride line. They gave the next person a colored card or tag, and gave us the same tag...we WAITED in the handicap line and when that person was the next in line, gave the loading cast member the card/tag and we were then next in line to load...AND there were only three persons and the handicapped person allowed to use this line. Didn't see many persons abusing the handicap system...oh yea, you had to get a "handicapped card" from the town hall each day, in order to use the handicap entrances...and they checked each time.

[11290]

If you want to hear some really choice words directed at CM's, hang out by the disability sections about 5 or 10 minutes before the parade on a busy night (way to late to get into those areas by BTW - they fill up fast).

And BTW: technically, and actually, the ENTIRE parade route is deemed "disability accessible".

[Andys5Toys]

We have experienced quite a few rude and pushy people using the wheelchair access on the Disney busses. We have just made an effort to not let it bother us. We just roll with it and enjoy our time.

[alaMode]

There are rude and pushy people of all abilities all over WDW. No need to pinpoint people in wheelchairs, people who use the designated handicapped spots at the parades, people in the wheelchair lines waiting for the transportation or rides...

This thread makes me sad-you're at WDW-enjoy it!

[darthmacho]

by no means am i down grading or putting dpwn these people who "need" the chair. its just that this lady was out of control. i have been to disney multiple times and never have i saw a driver have to lift a scooter for a lady who was causing a fuss. not only did she inconvience the driver everyone else. i am 100 percebt ok with the laws and regualtions but somwthing needs to be done about this. it was to the point of thos lady wanted special treatment and she was the only one that mattered.

I didn't mean to imply you were downgrading those that really need the wheelchairs, and apologies if it seemed that way. I meant that Disney puts itself in a position for these things to happen, but I do agree that the person you observed was not acting appropriately. She probably ruined the night of a LOT of people, whether her use of the wheelchair was justified or not, and that was very selfish of her.

[spoiledraf]

Encountering handicapped visitors always makes me want to help them out whatever way I can. Make things a little easier for them to make their visit a little more enjoyable. But my brother and sister in law don't look for special treatment in the lines for their daughter. Whether it's for a ride, a rest room or any other place where you wait your turn. They appreciate that Disney makes every effort to make all things Disney accessable and are more than happy to wait their turn with their wheelchair bound daughter like everyone else. Some folks in chairs and scooters could take a lesson from them. While their life is a struggle at times, they never cease to amaze me at how they handle things. So happy I added a ramp to my new deck so she can just roll right in for any parties or visits now!

[magicofdisney]

I liked in disneyParis...a wheelchair person (my daughter) would come up to the start of the ride line. They gave the next person a colored card or tag, and gave us the same tag...we WAITED in the handicap line and when that person was the next in line, gave the loading cast member the card/tag and we were then next in line to load...AND there were only three persons and the handicapped person allowed to use this line. Didn't see many persons abusing the handicap system...oh yea, you had to get a "handicapped card" from the town hall each day, in order to use the handicap entrances...and they checked each time.

This sounds like a decent and fair way to handle the situation. Too bad parks don't learn from one another.

[TiggerDeb]

I have an issue when people with W/chairs along with 20 of their relatives get on the bus before anyone else. Let the person with the w/chair get on first and their relatives get in line with the rest of us.

I have encountered people who were on the bus with us and then see them later on standing and someone else in their party using the w/chair. Ok that was my rant.

[Georgesgirl1]

Although I have seen some rude and pushy people in wheelchairs, I have encountered way more rude and pushy people who are not in wheelchairs in the parks. Sounds like you just happened upon one of the "bad apples" two night in a row.

Also, just because she could walk to talk to the CM doesn't mean she might not need the wheelchair. My grandmother has had two knee surgeries and cannot walk more than 20 minutes at a time before she has to stop and rest. She is very healthy in every other way and was an avid tennis player before her surgery. If you saw her in a wheelchair you may think she is one of those people who abuse the system, but she really needs one. There are certainly people who probably abuse the system, but unless you know their full history, there is no telling who truly needs a wheelchair and who is taking advantage.

[cuteduck223]

My brother uses an ECV at parks instead of his wheelchair because he can walk short distances (with crutches). We were at WDW in January with a party of 7, and if it was park closing and the busses were busy--he went to the wheelchair area with one member or our party and the rest of us waited in line. Usually it was my mom who went with his as she has pretty severe RA and cannot stand or walk for long periods of time. She either got a cart in the park, or her and dad just took things slow so she could walk, sit, walk and enjoy. :cool:

I understand how on rides you would all like to ride together, but getting back to the resort--we didn't need to do together. Several times, my brother even opted to wait until the line was down before heading to the bus just to avoid making people wait.

I know thats not the case with everyone, but people with disabilities do consider others from time to time :blush: so be encouraged by that.

As someone who has grown up with a disabled brother, i agree that having to wait for a bus so they can load is way better than living in a chair, but at the same time...our family has always considered others as well. No need to stand and fight on a crowded bus when we could wait 10 minutes and all get a seat at the end of the day. This--IMO is even better for a person in a chair because people aren't smashed in all around them :mickey:

[Frog]

I always thank my creator that my family all had great elementary educators in our lives to teach us how to treat others even in the face of adversity...
Everything we needed to know, we learned in...

[ransam]

wow...this has been covered way too many times...but....i while i think the person you encountered is obnixious, she's not that way because she's handicapped, but just that way in general.
as a person who needs an evc, i find it very insulting that anyone would put everyone who needs one into the same class. and i find it insulting for those that claim to know whether or not someone needs one or not. who made you a doctor/judge? if you saw me you would not think i need an evc. i can walk. but after being on my feet for more than 5 minutes,i need to sit down. i am unstable and need it.
for those that think it's wrong to give up a seat, let a handiapped person go first in line, try it someday. imagine what it's like to be in pain most of the time. spending hours at night geting in the right position so you can sleep. standing up and waiting up to a minute or longer for your knee to click into place. try driving an evc down main street when you can only go at 90 degree angles, and people are constantly cutting in front of you, not paying atention and if you accidently clip someone who cuts infront of you, you're an ass or something worse. then tell me that you still object to Disney for tryhing to help out a little

The majority of people at WDW are very helpful, but many are down right disgusting when it comes to handicapped. when i hear people say there should be handicapped lanes for only wheelchairs and evcs, that really pisses me off. it's like you're treating handicapped as if they are not as someone liked to point out "NORMAL" people.

I had one lady tell me once that being "fat" is not a handicapped, and i pointed out that is true, but being ignorant and rude is.....suddenly she went off on me, and I was the bad guy.

there should be new rules for the definition of handicapped. Bad knees, back, disease, are not handicaps. being intolerant, non-understanding, no compassion is.

[princessgirls]

I live by this golden rule:

YOUR HEALTH IS YOUR WEALTH!!! Therefore, I try to be more tolerant of people with loading and unloading their ECV on the buses. It's NONE of our business the reasons they are using them. Obviously, there is a reason for each and every person.

I can also say, that while in WDW in 2009 I got a bad case of Pneumonia, and was having trouble breathing, after my fever broke, I wanted to be out enjoying stuff with my family, and my husband rented me a wheelchair for one day. I felt horrible having to be pushed around. It was a very humbling experience. It was necessary that day, as I did not have the strength to tackle Animal Kingdom.
Yes, it can be annoying the longer waits, but think I am so blessed to be able to get around and enjoy this all on my own two feet.
Just my two cents...
Julie:mickey:

[Disney4us2]

To the OP.... That person was just plain selfish and rude. It has nothing to do with a physical handicap.

I am an ECV user and once able bodied person. I can walk short distances and only stand for about 5 minutes without pain.

My daughter sometimes sits on my scooter while I stretch. It is also hard on my back sitting all day long. I don't look disabled.

I have had to wait longer at times for a bus. We were at Blizzard Beach during spring break. The bus came from Animal Kingdom and was too full to take my scooter. My friend took her DD and mine back to the room while I had to wait 45 minutes for another bus back to POFQ. Everyone that came before that time was too full and they would not load me.

Sorry you ran into some one that was an itch with a B in front ;) We ALL are NOT like that woman.

[stitch34]

I would just like to add that I believe you ran into an exception as I have never encountered anything like this before in my many many trips.

I would like to add to those that commented that you can not pass judgment on those in scooters/wheelchairs. You have no idea why they are in them. I just booked my scooter for our upcoming trip this June. If you saw me, I look like a perfectly healthy 31 year old, but by doctor's orders I have to have a scooter in the parks due to a recent diagnosis. I have what I've heard called an invisible disease. I look normal to everyone, but I am really affected by pain in muscles and joints and extreme fatigue at times.

Last year, I had to be pushed in a wheelchair for 2 days after a trip to the ER. It was very difficult depending on others to get around and not being able to just get up and go. While I won't have to depend on others to push me this year, I am still apprehensive because I know people will look at me and think I am just taking advantage of the handicap-accessibile things provided in the park.

I am able to walk for longer than 5-10 minutes at a time, unlike others that have posted, but standing in line and the walking in the parks day after day is something my body is not able to handle. I can honestly say you will probably see me walking around a little if I am having a "good day" with my invisible disesase and you could see me later in the trip on a scooter. Even in these cases, people are not trying to cheat the system. In my case I am just trying to enjoy time moving around like I am used to doing.

I guess my point is just to add that no matter what you see, you never know the circumstances or the pain a person is in.

[TheVBs]

I realize how disappointing it can be to witness rude behavior or something you feel is unfair on a trip to WDW. As a family, we make a point of being grateful for everything we have and can do. If someone in my family started to grumble about having to wait longer because someone with a scooter gets to board first, I wouldn't allow it. We are so fortunate to not need that assistance, and the reality is that any day that could change for any of us. Don't ever think that it couldn't happen to you at some point. So we have to wait a little longer for the bus, so what? We even have fun in line when we're in Disney World! The CMs work hard and do their best to accomodate everyone, and usually do a stellar job of it.

Same goes for someone's rude behavior. I'm just grateful that my family knows better than to behave that way! Our approach is to simply pity someone for their poor behavior and get on with having fun.

A WDW trip is too valuable to let the little things bug you! :mickey:

[squad51]

I don't think the issue is of persons using wheelchairs or ECVs. The issue is persons, disabled or able bodied, just being rude. I feel bad for the bus driver as when was pulling in to the stop he just either missed or didn't register that he had a wc/ecv to load. I would hope that he tried to help. Next why didn't ANYONE standing in line say anything to the driver that someone needed assistance. If I had been there I would have brought the wc/ecv up to the driver's attention.
Now the other bus. If I read the comment correctly this coach bus did not belong to disney. If the bus was built prior the the ADA act it would not have been required to be compliant with ADA. I work at a railroad museum and with our fleet of historic rail cars we cannot, without historic and strucural modifications, be ADA compliant. While we do try to be accomidating we cannot always. No business would turn away customers.

Sometimes we all need to step back, take a deep breath and say "I'm on vacation".

[DizneyRox]

Not sure why Disney just doesn't run special buses for those needing assistance. From what I've seen there isn't a shortage of those needing special assistance, and it would surely alleviate many of the problems we constantly read about.

They wouldn't need a lot, and they can certainly clunp them together differently, and with the ion-demand system, I would imagine they could optimize it pretty well. And they don't need big busses either probalby, shorter versions of the coach ones, or even the van type ones senior centers use, etc.

There, no more complaints... And no charge or credit necessary for my suggestion... Disney, we come to you with problems AND solutions, what more can you ask for!

[MCeee]

I've seen this kind of thing more than once... last trip we noticed a family "taking turns" using an ECV. Saw them a number of times throughout the day. When at the buses, one of them appeared to be disabled... at the park, they just shared it.

[MCeee]

Just to add... DizneyRox hits the nail on the head. Exactly what I was thinking is needed.

[DVC2004]

I do feel for people who need chairs or EVCs, I do. But, I do not remember seeing the multitudes using these back when we first started going to WDW regurlary in 2001. We then rented a car since 2003 because my husband likes to drive and we didn't use Dis transportation maybe except for the monorail. In Dec 2009, we went and did not rent a car for the first time since 2003. We had very lengthy waits for transportation and I don't remember being in one line where there WASN'T at least 2-3 EVCs. EVCs mind you, not even chairs. I think I saw one child in a wheelchair on the bus the entire stay and it was a small lightweight chair. Her parents quickly loaded her on and locked her wheels in. Took a minute or less if even for them. For the EVCs though: the loading time, the space taken, the tempers flaring (not us but other waiting). People were making loud comments or compalining about the EVCs. I agree I do think it's only an issue because of Disney. I do like DisneyRox's idea of the special transportation. Not to segregate of course just to make for a smoother experience for all. That being said, we still rent a car and will contine to do so.

[BraddyB]

I can see your frustration, but like anything else, if people can abuse it, they will. I am not saying everyone abuses it, but there are always one or two out there. Majority of the time, the people who need them aren't the ones complaining or throwing a fit.

I can see why both people would have been mad in both cases BUT where was there family or people they were traveling with to alert the Bus Driver?

Second, did the person in scenario 2 know there was a bus that was accessible behind the coach bus? Also what if the Bus driver was hurt lifting the scooter?

ECV, wheelchairs, or not the Disney Resort Bus can bring out the "best" in everyone. I cant tell you how many times I gave up my seat for a pregnant woman, woman with child/children, or elderly couple because people "pretend" they dont see them.

[Daisy'sMom]

Not sure why Disney just doesn't run special buses for those needing assistance. From what I've seen there isn't a shortage of those needing special assistance, and it would surely alleviate many of the problems we constantly read about.

They wouldn't need a lot, and they can certainly clunp them together differently, and with the ion-demand system, I would imagine they could optimize it pretty well. And they don't need big busses either probalby, shorter versions of the coach ones, or even the van type ones senior centers use, etc.

There, no more complaints... And no charge or credit necessary for my suggestion... Disney, we come to you with problems AND solutions, what more can you ask for!

I imagine that your comment to "clump them together" was not meant to be mean or discriminating.
Why stop there, the people that have bratty children, the people that are fat, skinny, blonde could also be clumped together and made to use one bus.

I hope this subject gets closed soon, before it gets out of hand. :mickey:

[meldan98]

Daisy's Mom, I think by "clumping together" the original poster meant clumping the buses together not the people. :blush:

[LovinWDW]

Last summer during our trip, we were in the area where Splash Mt lets off. Right in the little court yard near the penny press machines and the play area. I was sitting on a bench waiting for my family who were in the bathrooms. As I sat there 2 men in there 40's pulled up on elec. scooters, hoppped off, lit up a smoke and discussed how great an idea it was to rent the scooters for the week. No walking, family right to the front of the line on every ride, when someone was tired it was their turn to ride and FAKE the need for the scooter. I know this is the exception, but it is being done. I had to get up and walk away to keep from saying something to them and I'm too much of a gentlemen to post my real thoughts on here.:mad:

[UCJen]

As I sat there 2 men in there 40's pulled up on elec. scooters, hoppped off, lit up a smoke and discussed how great an idea it was to rent the scooters for the week. No walking, family right to the front of the line on every ride, when someone was tired it was their turn to ride and FAKE the need for the scooter. I know this is the exception, but it is being done. I had to get up and walk away to keep from saying something to them and I'm too much of a gentlemen to post my real thoughts on here.:mad:

See, this seems like faulty logic. I think I would get frustrated by being on a scooter. You can't move as quickly and you must be vigilant about who is around you. That doesn't sound too fun to me.

I once saw a set of four teens on two scooters. They each had half of a butt cheek on the seat. I would think if all four of them needed one, there would be four scooters--for safety purposes. That is the only time I ever thought that someone on a scooter was suspect and that is in 15+ trips to WDW.

I have never had a problem with EVCs, it's the stroller brigade who intentionally bully you with their strollers that raise my ire.

[dolphinsfan203]

as i see this is a touchy subject and people are twisting and turning the real reason why i posted into a bashing of what i did not say.. i said the situation which occured was the problem. i believe i stated i have no problem with the handicap none at all its the people who take advantage of it. i do not mind giving seats up to little kids handicapped. its just if ur using it for the wrong reasons thats where my problem lies. i believe it should have to be medically cleared to be able to purchSe and use the scooters. just my opionion. so once agian i state i have NO problem with handicap people its the people who take advantage of the situation!

[ransam]

I've seen this kind of thing more than once... last trip we noticed a family "taking turns" using an ECV. Saw them a number of times throughout the day. When at the buses, one of them appeared to be disabled... at the park, they just shared it.

However, maybe they did need it? i'm assuming you weren't follwoing them all day right? so you saw them a few times. Maybe the mom and dad needed it just for a partial handicap and instead of using 2, just rented one...maybe they wanted to stretch their legs so a kid was riding it at some point...but 1st of all, who are you to judge if they needed it or the reason they had it? 2nd of all, why let it bother you? why let it ruin your vacation? there are so many other things to worry about in this world than that.

as for Disneyroz's idea, ideally, it sounds good, but not pratcitcal at all. how many busses/vans were you suggesting Disney use? it woulnd't be practical to have one for each resort. one bus to make one loop would take way too long. and by the way, it is a little insulting and it is seperatiing handicapped people from the "normal" people.

bottom line, is this really that big of a problem?
If you think it is, i can tell you as a person that uses an EVC you are in a very very very small minority. very rarely has anyone been anythng but nice to me. most go out of the way to help. the kindness comes out of most people at DIsney. i've been in line waiting like "normal" people for a bus, and had strangers in line push me to the front many times.

ihaven't used an evc forever, just a few years ago, i didn't need one. not one time did i have a problem w/ people who used them. I went out of my way to help out, open doors, let them go first.

Maybe instead of letting it get to you, if you'd open the door or help out someone who handicapped, you'd get more joy out of your vacation.
Just sayin'.

[DizneyRox]

Yes, "clumping" was meant the resorts. No need to have a dedicated Wildeness Lodge ADA bus. They could probably do one bus stop for those needing special assistance, and pick people up in order and stop them off as efficiently as possible. That bus might stop at WL, then Epcot, then Boardwalk, and finally DTD.

Disney monitors the bus stops at resorts, they know when there are people waiting, and if they will need assistance. They can route the ADA busses as needed.

[dolphinsfan203]

ransam reading your post i see a very biased outlook and a defensive response. people are entitled to there opinions on situation like wise your entitled. however it makes it tough for anyone to respond against the handicap becuase of your responses. its like your taking there side amd being irrational. once again the threads about this lady and what could disney do tonchange it. if anything so no mpre bickering goes on moderators could close the thread if they please.

[WDWfanatic742]

Either way, this thread has run its course...