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Aurora
03-07-2011, 06:59 PM
While reading through a thread on the Intercot boards that was critical of a certain kind of Disney visitor (which I won't refer to, so as not to hurt anyone's feelings), I was struck by something.

Nearly every post that was critical or self-congratulatory had some kind of grammatical error or typo.

I realize that these boards are meant to be mostly casual conversation, and everyone has a right to his or her opinion. I just thought it was ironic that there were so many mistakes on a "how hard can it be" thread. ;)

retiredfigment
03-07-2011, 09:20 PM
Hmmm... I've had that thought also.

brownie
03-08-2011, 07:30 AM
A spell checking extension in Chrome and reading long posts before I hit submit help to keep me out of trouble.

Ed
03-08-2011, 07:52 AM
There is a spell check available on the tool bar of the box used for posting - letters ABC with a check mark underneath.

For my occasional very long post, I type it up in Word first, run a spell and grammar check, and re-read it again to make sure it makes sense before cutting and pasting it into the forum.

But four short replys, i sumtimes do and sumtimez dont. :cool:

dnickels
03-08-2011, 08:26 AM
Not going to lie, I certainly get a chuckle out of a poorly written / grammatically incorrect post as well when it's coming from a poster proclaiming themselves to be educated (or even worse, an educator). Granted, it's just a message board, not a New York Times piece, but there / their / they're (and similar) mistakes aren't typos, they're not learning something most of us covered by 6th grade.

luvdiznee
03-08-2011, 08:46 AM
I do hate it when people don't know the difference between your and you're. :secret:

Ed
03-08-2011, 08:46 AM
Granted, it's just a message board, not a New York Times piece...

Newspapers and TV station websites are some of the worst. There's not a day that goes by that I don't spot some flagrant errors on those pages - - clumsy sentence construction that makes no sense, the classic there/their/they're boo-boos, and lots of other foul ups that generally detract from their professional image and would send an old-time newspaper editor or English teacher into an absolute rage! :mad:

Ian
03-08-2011, 08:51 AM
Not sure I see the connection between commenting on people's behavior in the parks and people's typing skills, but hey ... to each his or her own, I guess.

As far as my posts, I try my best to make sure they're as accurate and grammatically correct as possible, but I type really fast (around 100 wpm) and sometimes my fingers will accidentally type out "their" for "there" or "they're" and I may not notice it.

I guess I try to give people the benefit of the doubt and assume that they're much more casual in their board posts than they would be in any kind of professional piece.

magicofdisney
03-08-2011, 09:31 AM
The way I interpret your post, I understand what you're saying. There's a stigma of ignorance associated with your reference and the improper use of grammar/spelling (pot calling the kettle black...)

Misspellings and incorrect use of grammar are pet peeves of mine although I KNOW for a FACT I make mistakes. My own mistakes bother me more than others.

Aurora
03-08-2011, 10:02 AM
Not sure I see the connection between commenting on people's behavior in the parks and people's typing skills, but hey ... to each his or her own, I guess.

As far as my posts, I try my best to make sure they're as accurate and grammatically correct as possible, but I type really fast (around 100 wpm) and sometimes my fingers will accidentally type out "their" for "there" or "they're" and I may not notice it.

I guess I try to give people the benefit of the doubt and assume that they're much more casual in their board posts than they would be in any kind of professional piece.

Definitely, and I realize that. There's more of a connection than I want to say here 'cause my point is not to make anyone feel bad; just trying to shine a light.

To me it's kinda like if I laugh at you and call you stupid while I'm wearing two different colored socks...

Ramblingman
03-08-2011, 11:06 AM
Spelling and grammar mistakes have always bothered me more than most. This is for one very good reason (at least to me) - people have stopped expecting excellence in themselves and others.

It used to be that most people would be critical of themselves for slips and typos. Now, the pendulum swing means that you wear your ignorance with pride and attack anyone who would dare point out a mistake.

That's another of my peeves - the "you can't judge me" animal. I usually tell them that to judge means to form an opinion, so in effect they are telling me I have no right to form an opinion. The irony completely escapes them, so I tell them that judgement can be good, so they are in effect telling me that I can't tell them they are smart, or pretty, or did something well. That will usually get through to most.

badkitty
03-08-2011, 12:19 PM
The follow is my pet peeve so to each their own, right? I think it is unreasonable to assume someone doesn't know the difference between the usage of words such as "their" and "there" or "your" and "you're" because they type the wrong word. I also think it is unfair to judge that a person doesn't take pride in communicating correctly because they made a typo. I prefer correct grammar and punctuation but just yesterday I typed "too" instead of "two". It was an accident. I usually proof-read my emails but I missed that one and spell-check didn't help. Oops. I hope I'm not terminated by the grammar police. (BTW, I live with a member of the grammar police and I'm still very fond of him. ;))

garymacd
03-08-2011, 12:22 PM
A number of years ago my mother's aunt died. After the funeral, we had to empty her room at the nursing home and came across a whole bunch of stuff that I had never seen before.

One item was an autograph book from her senior year at school. Now, keep in mind her age. She died well into her eighties, and was born in the latter part of the 1800's. Her senior year at school was Grade 8. That’s all most people needed to live and work on the farm. Many were married shortly after leaving school and starting families and farms of their own at 14 - 16 years old.

Schooling was different then than now. Most of us would have trouble passing out of Grade 8 with the standardised testing they gave back then. I found that, too. It made me weep from lack of knowledge.

This autograph book was not filled with the flip comments we see now or even when I graduated from high school in the yearbooks, like, "Hey. It's bin great knowin ya.", or "Catch ya on the flip side."

These quotes were thougthful, lines long and usually fit in with the writer's personality or life view. Sometimes quotes from poets of the day or directly from the bible. They were written with hard-tipped steel fountain pens and bottled ink on blank sheets of paper - stationery, actually.

Throughout the entire book I did not see one spelling mistake, the lines were absolutely straight, and the handwriting was incredible!

As Ramblingman said, "People have stopped expecting excellence in themselves and others."

I know my handwriting is terrible, and hasn't improved with the increased amount I use the computer, but I always try to ensure that my spelling and grammar are pretty much correct. I did run this through spell and grammar checker, just to be on the safe side, though.

Mousefever
03-08-2011, 04:19 PM
It used to be that most people would be critical of themselves for slips and typos. Now, the pendulum swing means that you wear your ignorance with pride and attack anyone who would dare point out a mistake.



I have especially noticed this in the "comments" section of my local news websites. People have no trouble spewing vitriol and making ignorant assumptions about a news story, but if someone else points out their misspelling or grammatical error, watch out! Apparently that is off-limits.

On a discussion board like Intercot, our main objective is to communicate our thoughts and opinions to others. For that reason, it doesn't bother me if someone makes a mistake, as long as it doesn't detract from my understanding of their post. (Although I do recognize the irony of a post that points out others' mistakes while making mistakes in the post.)

The posts that do bother me, and I usually skip entirely, are the posts that have little or no punctuation and/or no capitalization. They are extremely difficult to read, and, therefore, do not provide effective communication to many on Intercot. Fortunately, I'm not tested on any of this material, and can choose not to read such a post. :whew:

Amy

Ian
03-08-2011, 04:20 PM
A number of years ago my mother's aunt died. After the funeral, we had to empty her room at the nursing home and came across a whole bunch of stuff that I had never seen before.

One item was an autograph book from her senior year at school. Now, keep in mind her age. She died well into her eighties, and was born in the latter part of the 1800's. Her senior year at school was Grade 8. That’s all most people needed to live and work on the farm. Many were married shortly after leaving school and starting families and farms of their own at 14 - 16 years old.

Schooling was different then than now. Most of us would have trouble passing out of Grade 8 with the standardised testing they gave back then. I found that, too. It made me weep from lack of knowledge.

This autograph book was not filled with the flip comments we see now or even when I graduated from high school in the yearbooks, like, "Hey. It's bin great knowin ya.", or "Catch ya on the flip side."

These quotes were thougthful, lines long and usually fit in with the writer's personality or life view. Sometimes quotes from poets of the day or directly from the bible. They were written with hard-tipped steel fountain pens and bottled ink on blank sheets of paper - stationery, actually.

Throughout the entire book I did not see one spelling mistake, the lines were absolutely straight, and the handwriting was incredible!

As Ramblingman said, "People have stopped expecting excellence in themselves and others."

I know my handwriting is terrible, and hasn't improved with the increased amount I use the computer, but I always try to ensure that my spelling and grammar are pretty much correct. I did run this through spell and grammar checker, just to be on the safe side, though.I don't have anything to add, but I just had to respond and tell you how completely and totally I enjoyed reading this post. It's honestly one of the best I've ever read in over 12 years of frequenting these boards.

You should be proud of the way you communicate. Seriously ... that was an awesome and inspiring read. Thank you for sharing it.

jillluvsdisney
03-08-2011, 08:56 PM
I agree with Ian. I really enjoyed That post also about Grandma's yearbook. It was a neat look into the past.

jillluvsdisney
03-08-2011, 08:56 PM
That was my 1000 post too.:mickey:

brownie
03-09-2011, 07:47 AM
I don't have anything to add, but I just had to respond and tell you how completely and totally I enjoyed reading this post. It's honestly one of the best I've ever read in over 12 years of frequenting these boards.

You should be proud of the way you communicate. Seriously ... that was an awesome and inspiring read. Thank you for sharing it.

I agree!

brownie
03-09-2011, 07:54 AM
Newspapers and TV station websites are some of the worst. There's not a day that goes by that I don't spot some flagrant errors on those pages - - clumsy sentence construction that makes no sense, the classic there/their/they're boo-boos, and lots of other foul ups that generally detract from their professional image and would send an old-time newspaper editor or English teacher into an absolute rage! :mad:

Not just the news, but I've read a fair number of books in the past year that have had numerous spelling, grammatical, and other errors. You would think it would be easier with technology to catch these things. I think there's an over-reliance on technology to check things. Spell check won't catch it if you type "there" and should have typed "their." Someone still needs to double check the work. It seems as if the digital age is putting pressure on excellence.

MNNHFLTX
03-09-2011, 10:11 AM
A question to those of you responding in this thread--are you now paranoid that your posts are being scrutinized for spelling or grammatical errors? I would be (hey, I am!) ;)

Dragongirlx
03-09-2011, 10:51 AM
I think that when people are posting about something they feel strongly about they want to get their opinion posted quickly so they are more likely to type hurriedly and post quickly and that results in mistakes.
I know that I do that sometimes and I always cringe when I see them later.

magicofdisney
03-09-2011, 01:09 PM
A question to those of you responding in this thread--are you now paranoid that your posts are being scrutinized for spelling or grammatical errors? I would be (hey, I am!) ;)
I always feel this way, probably because I'm conscientious of it myself. I'm constantly editing papers my children write (we homeschool) so I find myself editing everything I read, in general.

Ramblingman
03-13-2011, 07:08 PM
That was my 1000 post too.:mickey:

Congrats!

DizNee143
03-14-2011, 09:23 AM
i went to school..i know how to write a paper and all that stuff..but im on discussion board..where i thought we could be ourselves..not prim proper and perfect..
and the way im writing this is how i write every where on the internet..emails..blogs..facebook..here!:mickey:

BandMan
03-14-2011, 12:52 PM
i went to school..i know how to write a paper and all that stuff..but im on discussion board..where i thought we could be ourselves..not prim proper and perfect..
and the way im writing this is how i write every where on the internet..emails..blogs..facebook..here!


I don't think anyone is saying we shouldn't feel free to be who we are, or that we need to be "prim, proper and perfect". Instead, many of us are lamenting the fact that basic communication abilities seem to be increasingly lacking.

While we all get in a hurry and make mistakes from time to time, as a teacher I can tell you that many of today's young people - especially those who are constantly texting - have HORRIBLE basic writing skills.

(ThR spLing isn't gr8, LOL)

Ian
03-14-2011, 01:20 PM
i went to school..i know how to write a paper and all that stuff..but im on discussion board..where i thought we could be ourselves..not prim proper and perfect..
and the way im writing this is how i write every where on the internet..emails..blogs..facebook..here!:mickey:I think you're perfectly within your rights to communicate however you'd like while online.

However, you should be very aware of the fact that people may judge your intelligence based on the way you write, use puncuation, and capitalization in your online writings. Fair? Maybe not. Reality? Definitely.

And remember ... this includes prospective employers who, trust me, are definitely examining your web presence during the interviewing process. Just take that into consideration before passing the Internet off too casually.

Hammer
03-14-2011, 02:02 PM
I think you're perfectly within your rights to communicate however you'd like while online.

However, you should be very aware of the fact that people may judge your intelligence based on the way you write, use puncuation, and capitalization in your online writings. Fair? Maybe not. Reality? Definitely.

And remember ... this includes prospective employers who, trust me, are definitely examining your web presence during the interviewing process. Just take that into consideration before passing the Internet off too casually.

Well said, Ian!

Janmac
03-14-2011, 03:27 PM
There's more to this than the occasional typo or word confusion that we all do and which sometimes slips by. What rankles is the tone of the commentator, and the subject matter: clueless rude people, while the commentator is apparently as clueless.

I agree, sometimes our emotions get the better of us. Still there are those out there that are grammatically clueless even in the clearest of minds. My niece is taking on-line college classes, with much posting to discussion boards. She is also running into this same phenomena there.

I had a keyboard, once upon a time, with very stiff keys. With the arthritis in my hands, I absolutely quit using the shift key. Luckily, that keyboard is history.

Unfortunately, there are more and more folks out there in the etherland that really don't care about their public persona or what fallout they might reap from same. And even more unfortunately, here in mid-Missouri there seem to be fewer employers who go to the trouble to research their prospective employees. After all, there are plenty of potential employees out there. Recently, for 13 volunteer positions - not paid ones - my niece was one of over 40 hopefuls being considered. Jobs are even worse.

Jan

Jared
03-14-2011, 07:38 PM
I think you're perfectly within your rights to communicate however you'd like while online.

However, you should be very aware of the fact that people may judge your intelligence based on the way you write, use puncuation, and capitalization in your online writings. Fair? Maybe not. Reality? Definitely.

And remember ... this includes prospective employers who, trust me, are definitely examining your web presence during the interviewing process. Just take that into consideration before passing the Internet off too casually.
Ian's right. As many of you know, I work in the news media and write for a living. I cannot say with complete certainty that my editors scoured my Facebook or discovered my posts here before they hired me, but I would be surprised if they didn't at least take a cursory glance at my Internet persona. I am fairly certain that's common practice for most jobs nowadays, not just gigs in journalism.

Everyone has the right to express themselves and communicate in whatever manner makes them happy and comfortable. At the risk of sounding terribly harsh, I also reserve the right to make judgments about you based on the style you choose to write. It's a natural and almost subconscious occurrence. Well-written posts command attention, and their authors deserve respect.

Are my posts here seen by the same number of eyeballs as my stories for the newspaper? No, not even close. But I treat them like they are.

princessjojo
03-14-2011, 08:47 PM
I, like many others here have said, do get bothered many times at spelling and grammar errors, but mainly because I was an English major. But the computer has brought havoc to the spelling skills of society today. I do have the occasional spelling error and when I notice it, especially after it has been sent, I have a strong nagging feeling that comes across me.

If I'm reading someone else's mistakes, I notice them, but if there's only one or two and it's a transposition error, I tend to overlook it. But if there's a number of keystroke errors and it occurs over and over, I get annoyed by it.

Sadly, many professions such as my own, use many abbreviations and discourage longhand. I find that if I make mistakes, I feel incompetent to some degree. But I still try. If I know I don't know how to spell something, I either choose another word, or make the (sp) notation to show I may have very well spelled it incorrectly, yet I am acknowledging this as well. Again, I do try…

Scar
03-14-2011, 08:52 PM
Well-written posts command attention, and their authors deserve respect.Absolutely. I have gone out of my way to read posts even if the topic didn’t interest me, just because I know the poster writes good posts. And I have conversely ignored posts by other posters because I know it is a poorly written post. And to quote Ian:
Fair? Maybe not. Reality? Definitely.

MNNHFLTX
03-14-2011, 11:21 PM
Okay, so I'm the first person to admit that I like to be grammatically correct when I post. However, I do think that people sometimes tend to be overly critical in a casual setting (a point made in a previous post).

I guess the point I was trying to make in my last post and this one is related to that old adage--"judge not, lest ye be judged". If some choose to formulate opinions based on casual contributions to an internet forum, that is their right, I suppose. But remember that by doing so they are subjecting themselves to even more intensive scrutiny by their peers. I know I tend to look more critically at people who tend to criticize others.

Jared
03-15-2011, 12:09 AM
Okay, so I'm the first person to admit that I like to be grammatically correct when I post. However, I do think that people sometimes tend to be overly critical in a casual setting (a point made in a previous post).

I guess the point I was trying to make in my last post and this one is related to that old adage--"judge not, lest ye be judged". If some choose to formulate opinions based on casual contributions to an internet forum, that is their right, I suppose. But remember that by doing so they are subjecting themselves to even more intensive scrutiny by their peers. I know I tend to look more critically at people who tend to criticize others.
Fair point, Beth. I generally agree with your sentiments. Still, I argue that it's completely natural and understandable to formulate opinions about a person based on the way he presents himself, even in an online forum. I'm not talking about the occasional typo. Everybody is prone to make small mistakes. But there is a difference between tying too quickly and having your finger slip and writing the way teenagers chat with their friends on AIM. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect minimal effort in spelling and punctuation. Frankly, it's easy and more pleasant to read. I skip over posts written in "Internet slang" just because they are harder to decipher.

As a general aside, I think the term "judge" has become taboo unfairly. It has essentially become a buzzword laden with negative connotations. That's why I hesitated before phrasing my thoughts with that word in my previous post, but it really was the best way to describe my feelings.

We make judgments about people every day. We judge Disney Cast Members based on a series of 30-second interactions. We judge the girl at the cash register at the supermarket. We judge the dude in front of us in line at Wal-Mart. We base our entire social lives around judgments. That's why everyone stresses the importance of first impressions. They mean everything. I don't think it's inappropriate to glean information based on how people write. But I recognize I may hold the minority opinion on this issue.

Mousefever
03-16-2011, 08:52 AM
Still, I argue that it's completely natural and understandable to formulate opinions about a person based on the way he presents himself, even in an online forum.

I would say that in an online forum, we don't have another way of forming opinions about someone other than the way he presents himself in writing. This is true not only of a person's spelling/grammar, but in their tone and attitude.

If a poster is consistently negative, for example, I form an opinion of that poster. If a poster is thoughtful in most posts, I remember that too. In fact, if someone posts with a cheerful, kind attitude, for me it mitigates a certain amount of error in spelling and grammar. Just as I may form a negative opinion about a poster who is consistently right in his spelling/grammar, but displays a lack of compassion and humor.

Amy

MNNHFLTX
03-16-2011, 09:24 AM
If a poster is consistently negative, for example, I form an opinion of that poster. If a poster is thoughtful in most posts, I remember that too. In fact, if someone posts with a cheerful, kind attitude, for me it mitigates a certain amount of error in spelling and grammar. Just as I may form a negative opinion about a poster who is consistently right in his spelling/grammar, but displays a lack of compassion and humor.Exactly, Amy. I am far more likely to form an opinion on someone based on the tone of their posts (especially the consistent use of sarcasm) rather than spelling or grammar.

lettripp
03-16-2011, 09:31 AM
Although I am a stickler for grammar most of the time, I (and I assume others) like to use the Internet to allow my voice to come out. I try to type like I speak - fast and casual (think Gilmore Girls... because that really is how many people in Connecticut talk most of the time).

Yes, I am a language arts teacher. I also guarantee I have made typos and silly grammar errors in these forums before. I spend hours every day reading some pretty awful writing... and when I log onto Intercot, I need a break. I don't judge people for having an Internet voice - I will only judge when a person is trying to convey a serious message, tries to sound educated, and makes a mistake that I spoke to my 7th graders about that very week.

I think it is also important to keep in mind that many influential writers in history did not use standard English all of the time. They found their unique voices and used them proudly, yet those voices were not always perfect. Yes, there are many places where it is vital that standard English be used (newspapers, emails to and from the boss, memos etc), because otherwise people sound incompetent. However, for some, writing on the Internet is more about self-expression than perfection.

I guess my point is that the concentration on grammar should be relative to the purpose of the writing.

Jared
03-16-2011, 10:31 AM
AI think it is also important to keep in mind that many influential writers in history did not use standard English all of the time. They found their unique voices and used them proudly, yet those voices were not always perfect.
I see this point made whenever this topic comes up, and I understand what you're saying. Shakespeare invented words all the time just because they sounded nice. Cormac McCarthy refuses to use quotation marks and most other punctuation because he thinks black marks clutter the page.

I think you have to master the rules before you can break them. McCarthy owns a Pulitzer Prize and is arguably the greatest American novelist in a generation. He can do what he wants. The rest of us should aspire to reach that level.

Ian
03-16-2011, 10:50 AM
I see this point made whenever this topic comes up, and I understand what you're saying. Shakespeare invented words all the time just because they sounded nice. Cormac McCarthy refuses to use quotation marks and most other punctuation because he thinks black marks clutter the page.

I think you have to master the rules before you can break them. McCarthy owns a Pulitzer Prize and is arguably the greatest American novelist in a generation. He can do what he wants. The rest of us should aspire to reach that level.Also, let's be real ... a writer of his stature is essentially an aritst and artists are weird. They adopt intentional affections because ... well ... that's just what artists do.

I would argue that (with possibly a few minor exceptions) none of our members here qualify as "artists" when it comes to our prose, so we pretty much need to conform to the standards.

It's funny ... I find myself coming back to this point a lot lately. We seem to have evolved into a society that thinks literally everything has shades of grey, yet the truth is there are a lot of things that are either black or white, right or wrong. Grammar, much like math, is one of those things. You capitalize the first letter of a sentence and proper names. You separate sentences with periods. That's just the rules. I didn't make them, no, but I consider it my job to follow them.

MNNHFLTX
03-16-2011, 11:34 AM
It's funny ... I find myself coming back to this point a lot lately. We seem to have evolved into a society that thinks literally everything has shades of grey, yet the truth is there are a lot of things that are either black or white, right or wrong. Grammar, much like math, is one of those things. You capitalize the first letter of a sentence and proper names. You separate sentences with periods. That's just the rules. I didn't make them, no, but I consider it my job to follow them.Or one could argue that as society changes, the rules may also change. This is certainly true with the advancement of technology in communications. (I must admit that I am playing the devil's advocate a bit here, as I am one of the few remaining people on earth that uses complete words and sentences in my text messages....) ;)

Ian
03-16-2011, 11:41 AM
Or one could argue that as society changes, the rules may also change. This is certainly true with the advancement of technology in communications. (I must admit that I am playing the devil's advocate a bit here, as I am one of the few remaining people on earth that uses complete words and sentences in my text messages....) ;)But the rules haven't changed. The only thing that's changed is people's willingness to follow the rules.

If you go to English class at any educational institution around the globe they're not going to teach you that the proper form of any sentence is, "yo dude u wanna go 2 da mall l8r"

MNNHFLTX
03-16-2011, 11:51 AM
But the rules haven't changed. The only thing that's changed is people's willingness to follow the rules.

If you go to English class at any educational institution around the globe they're not going to teach you that the proper form of any sentence is, "yo dude u wanna go 2 da mall l8r"True, but some of the venues where they are being used have changed and the rules have relaxed for the sake of ease and convenience. We don't have to like it, but it's a fact of life. :shrug:


I agree with Beth that rules change sometimes based on societal norms. But effectively eliminating any emphasis on proper writing is probably not an advancement. I totally agree with you. Like I said, I was playing the devil's advocate--I don't necessarily think it's the way it should be, just the way it is.

Anyway that's the extent of my :twocents: on this subject.

Jared
03-16-2011, 11:52 AM
But the rules haven't changed. The only thing that's changed is people's willingness to follow the rules.

If you go to English class at any educational institution around the globe they're not going to teach you that the proper form of any sentence is, "yo dude u wanna go 2 da mall l8r"
And yet, even in college level English classes, you see plenty of students who write formal papers using Internet jargon and slang, and then complain when they flunk. These types of kids always argue that they were simply "expressing themselves," or they invoke some other silly trope.

The reality is that a lot of people I know live by Beth's point. It's disturbing.

I agree with Beth that rules change sometimes based on societal norms. But effectively eliminating any emphasis on proper writing is probably not an advancement.

I went to journalism school and was fortunate enough to end up with a job in the field. Many of my friends left J-school and have pursued other interests. But on the first day of your freshman year, the dean tells every incoming class that if you can write, you can do almost anything. It's the single most important skill to so many industries and professions. Everybody -- pre-med students, engineering students, architecture students -- should learn the basics of writing. The skills are too important to ignore.

lettripp
03-16-2011, 01:17 PM
I think I need to clarify the point I was trying to make. I agree that people need to master the art of language before they can "play" with it. This is one of the reasons why I teach.

The main point I wanted to make was that different linguistic styles are appropriate for different environments. If a person wants to convey a certain personality online (be it an illiterate personality or not), this is where they should have that freedom.

It is my belief that using standard English all of the time is less important than developing "code-switching" skills. For example, I teach in an inner city school. My students speak very differently on the street than I expect them to in my classroom. The second their "street talk" shows up in their writing, I let them know that they need to be aware of their audience (obviously there is more to the lesson but those are the basics). However, I don't expect them to speak the way I teach them to write when talking to their friends. If they did, they would be ridiculed and ousted from that particular society.

That being said, I have no interest in sounding like an English teacher when I talk online, so I use the voice that I do when I speak to my friends (because I consider you my Intercot family!). It is common for people to speak using misplaced modifiers and to talk in fragments, and writing in message boards is highly conversational so those errors are common. I don't think mistakes like that should be looked down on but I DO agree that basic spelling mistakes like swapping homophones show a lack of caring and effort.

Ian
03-16-2011, 01:23 PM
That being said, I have no interest in sounding like an English teacher when I talk online, so I use the voice that I do when I speak to my friends (because I consider you my Intercot family!). It is common for people to speak using misplaced modifiers and to talk in fragments, and writing in message boards is highly conversational so those errors are common. I don't think mistakes like that should be looked down on but I DO agree that basic spelling mistakes like swapping homophones show a lack of caring and effort.I think this is the most compelling argument I've seen (probably because it's so well written ;)) on this topic.

I agree completely that the ability to tailor your communications to your audience is important and I would never look down on someone for using a more informal or conversational tone in their posts. That most definitely wasn't what I was trying to say.

The posts I'm talking about are literally the ones with no capitalization, rampant misspellings, no puncuation, and excessive 'Net slang (gr8!). For the record, I won't even waste time reading a post if I can't immediately spot a capital letter in there somewhere. Conversely, I'll also immediately ignore any post written IN ALL CAPS. I don't like being shouted at. :D

lettripp
03-16-2011, 01:27 PM
The posts I'm talking about are literally the ones with no capitalization, rampant misspellings, no puncuation, and excessive 'Net slang (gr8!). For the record, I won't even waste time reading a post if I can't immediately spot a capital letter in there somewhere. Conversely, I'll also immediately ignore any post written IN ALL CAPS. I don't like being shouted at. :D

I completely agree with you. When I get papers like that I cringe, so imagine my reaction when I see such carelessness from adults!

And thank you for the compliment! :D I just hope I taught my students to write persuasively in time for state testing!

Jared
03-16-2011, 02:32 PM
I completely agree with you. When I get papers like that I cringe, so imagine my reaction when I see such carelessness from adults!

And thank you for the compliment! :D I just hope I taught my students to write persuasively in time for state testing!
Thanks so much for such a thoughtful and interesting response. It's fascinating to see a professional's opinion on this subject.

I completely agree with virtually all your points. Like you and Ian explained, I don't expect anybody to write the same way here as they would in, say, a cover letter. I certainly write differently in my stories for the paper than I do here. My problems, much like Ian's, are with the posters that show an obvious disregard for even the fundamentals of the English language. "Internet" speak is a great tool. It allows for fast communication among friends. But to me, a post in a public forum is a writing sample intended for a wide audience, no different than a story I write for the newspaper. I think many times, people forget that fact.

Scar
03-16-2011, 03:31 PM
True, but some of the venues where they are being used have changed and the rules have relaxed for the sake of ease and convenience. We don't have to like it, but it's a fact of life. :shrug:I think this pretty much sums it up. It is a fact of life, and I (along with many others) don't like it. Like many of us have said, we will read what we like, and ignore what we don't like.

If you want me to read your post, write it properly.

MNNHFLTX
03-16-2011, 06:02 PM
If you want me to read your post, write it properly.Unfortunately, as one of our new moderators, now you will have to read the posts (at least in your own forums). ;)

Ian
03-16-2011, 07:54 PM
Unfortunately, as one of our new moderators, now you will have to read the posts (at least in your own forums). ;)Yes, it's one of the many crosses we mods have to bear. :D

Scar
03-16-2011, 08:45 PM
Rats!

Melanie
03-16-2011, 08:50 PM
Rats!

:fresh:

garymacd
03-22-2011, 12:40 PM
I see this point made whenever this topic comes up, and I understand what you're saying. Shakespeare invented words all the time just because they sounded nice. Cormac McCarthy refuses to use quotation marks and most other punctuation because he thinks black marks clutter the page.

that that is is that that is not is not that is that not that it is

I read that once upon a time and it took me forever to figure out what it meant.

I often receive emails from people looking to take some of my courses. Most are easily read and understood - until I got this one, on a black background with multi-coloured letters:

wenes yr nxt crs i ned frst ad

Turns out it was a 13 year old girl looking to take a baby sitting course from me.

BandMan
03-22-2011, 02:53 PM
wenes yr nxt crs i ned frst ad

Turns out it was a 13 year old girl looking to take a baby sitting course from me.

And as a teacher, that is the cross I have to bear.

:blowup: